The Leadership Podcast

Dr. Richard Winters, Mayo Clinic's Leadership Development Program Director and author of “You're the Leader. Now What?: Leadership Lessons from Mayo Clinic,” discusses the dynamic challenges of healthcare leadership. He highlights issues like global healthcare professional shortages and emphasizes the need for teamwork amidst constant change. Dr. Richard advocates for understanding and leading diverse teams, focusing on tackling challenges such as resource scarcity and disagreements. In his book, he outlines actionable steps for leaders, promoting forward-thinking within constraints and encouraging openness to exploring varied life paths and personal fulfillment.   Key Takeaways:   [01:38] Dr. Richard is an emergency physician at Mayo Clinic who also engages in leadership programs. Despite an unconventional journey into medicine as a former punk rock skateboarder, he values the dynamic schedule of emergency medicine over standard clinic hours. Acknowledging the challenges, he emphasizes the importance of community and collaboration in providing effective emergency care. Grateful for the efforts of first responders, Dr. Richard recognizes the crucial role they play in critical situations.   [05:30] He addresses challenges in hospital practice, emphasizing global shortages of healthcare professionals. In his leadership insights, he highlights the dynamic nature of healthcare, with constant changes and teamwork requirements. Reflecting on his career, Dr. Richard notes the shift from individual care to collaborative leadership, stressing the importance of understanding and leading diverse teams in the ever-evolving healthcare landscape.   [09:42] Dr. Richard shares his book’s focus which is on the challenges in healthcare leadership—scarce resources, disagreements, and the need for solutions. He advocates a forward-looking approach, urging leaders to think what they like to do given limitations. He also refers to the Cynefin  framework by David Snowden for decision-making in uncertain situations, particularly highlighting the importance of transitioning from crisis to complex environments in healthcare leadership.   [11:36] He explains the dual challenge of dealing with both well-known best practices and unknown, dynamic situations in leadership. Leaders must navigate between conventional approaches and the need to address new pressures. Dr. Richard shares the dynamic nature of leadership, especially for physician-scientist leaders, focusing the shift from trusting data to effectively conveying narratives. He highlights that leadership involves not just external adaptation, but also internal growth and the challenge of balancing authenticity with the demands of the role.   [14:40] Dr. Richard explores the liminal space in leadership, navigating dichotomies within departments, organizations, and professions. He emphasizes the importance of distinguishing between individual and collective stories, acknowledging the ever-evolving narrative in leadership. Connecting values like respect and integrity to specific behaviors, he also stresses the significance of leaders embodying organizational values in their actions. Dr. Richard explains the significance of healthcare leaders translating values into tangible behaviors to cultivate a positive organizational culture.    [21:39] He shares the challenge of aligning business and healthcare interests and emphasizes the importance of individual well-being. He critiques traditional wellness programs and advocates for a focus on psychological well-being components like purpose alignment, autonomy, personal growth, and positive relations. Dr. Richard also emphasizes the need for organizational commitment to measuring well-being as a vital sign and promoting a culture that values collective decision-making, autonomy, and purpose alignment.    [29:04] Dr. Richard stresses the importance of being willing to explore different paths in life, while encouraging leaders and individuals to consider alternative options. He also focuses on the need for open conversations about personal fulfillment, even if it means exploring unconventional paths like opening a surf shop in a cold climate. Dr. Richard uses the metaphor of a garden to illustrate that humans are not confined to one place and can find fulfillment in different areas.    [31:51] He reflects on the commonalities of change across various industries, acknowledging the profound transformations driven by technology and AI. He emphasizes the ongoing inflection point in different sectors, marked by consolidations, evolving job roles, and the integration of data. Dr. Richard also expresses excitement about the potential opportunities in healthcare due to increased data sharing and innovative leadership approaches. He gives focus on the importance of leaders challenging tradition, being bold, and skillfully guiding organizations through change.   [34:15] Dr. Richard also reflects on the evolving landscape of healthcare, giving focus on the significant advancements driven by AI and technology. He acknowledges the challenges of navigating a heavily regulated industry and addresses the need for regulatory adaptation to facilitate innovation. Dr. Richard envisions a transformative shift in healthcare delivery, while stressing the impact of remote monitoring and patient-centric models. He believes that it is important to embrace discomfort as a catalyst for growth and learning, and encourages leaders to navigate daily challenges with curiosity and resilience.   [36:17] Closing Quote: Remember, the life so short a craft, so long to learn. -Hippocrates   Quotable Quotes: "Leadership isn't just directing from above; it's about actively understanding and helping the team."   "Leadership is developing the ability to lead one-on-one and to lead groups of individuals who are all in disagreement."   "The most important on being a leader, is being able to lead yourself as you navigate and figure out your own path."   "Our most effective leaders must grasp how to analyze data, comprehend hard facts, and navigate complex situations."   "Many organizations share similar values, but often these values are not reflected in their behaviors."   "The key to changing the culture is ensuring that it's not only about values but also about the behaviors that embody those values."   “Values plus behaviors is equal culture.”   "Those daily stories are what truly inspires me."   "If I notice people don't feel safe speaking up or sharing perspectives, I take action."   "Things always change, so you need to look at everything to make the best decision."   “It's essential for humans to figure out where our efficacy is and what we can do to make sure that we're happy, engaged, have well-being, and fulfilled.”   “We need individuals who can deal with crises and can steer an organization forward when the organization is unsure.”   “We need individuals who have the ability to bring people with different perspectives together.”   This is the book mentioned in our discussion with Dr. Richard:     Resources Mentioned: The Leadership Podcast | Sponsored by | Rafti Advisors. LLC | Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC | Dr. Richard Winters LinkedIn | Dr. Richard Winters Website | Mayo Clinic Website | Dr. Richard Winters Twitter |  

Amberly Lago, bestselling author of "True Grit and Grace: Turning Tragedy into Triumph," podcast host, peak performance coach, and founder of the Unstoppable Life Mastermind, describes her inspiring transformation from a backup dancer to a renowned thought leader, focusing on resilience and self-acceptance. She overcame a severe motorcycle accident and a debilitating nerve disease and introduced the concept of "pacing" to build resilience, emphasizing the importance of gratitude, community, and perseverance. She advises against lingering on regrets and stresses the importance of setting boundaries in the entrepreneurial journey. Her story illustrates a shift from seeking external validation to recognizing her intrinsic self-worth, contributing to the rapid success of her podcast and book.      Key Takeaways:   [01:50] Amberly shares that she had a breakthrough as a backup dancer in an MC Hammer music video, realizing her dream in her early career. She mentions that her  experience instilled qualities of grit and resilience, and she developed deep admiration for accomplished dancers. Collaborating with choreographers she respected brought immense joy and fulfillment. Despite changes in the dance industry, her passion for learning from and working with inspiring individuals remains unwavering in her current role in thought leadership and self-development.    [06:34] She mentions that she never discussed grace until experiencing a severe motorcycle accident and undergoing numerous surgeries to save her leg. As a former dancer and athlete, she was accustomed to pushing through pain, emphasizing grit and toughness. After finding out she had a nerve disease, she struggled to hide the pain and ended up feeling really upset, even turning to alcohol. Eventually, she learned to be kind to herself and handle the pain better. This made her want to talk about being emotionally strong, even to tough crowds, and encourage people to deal with and understand pain in different parts of life.   [08:21] Amberly shares her journey of resilience, stemming from a nerve disease, and introduces the concept of "pacing." Pacer, an acronym, includes Perspective, Acceptance, Community, Endurance, and Rest. She emphasizes gratitude, self-acceptance, and the transformative power of community for resilience. She also speaks about the significance of endurance, aligning passion with perseverance, and prioritizing rest in the entrepreneurial journey. Amberly then encourages unplugging, finding joy, and strategic recovery for fostering creativity and overall well-being.   [14:26] She shares her excitement about rebranding her podcast after five years. She acknowledges the challenges but emphasizes the meaningful connections and opportunities it has brought to her business. The podcast has allowed her to interview notable guests, including May Musk and Jamie Kern Lima, and create a community that resonates with her audience. The joy she derives from making a positive impact on people's lives through the podcast is a driving force behind her commitment to it.    [16:28] Amberly shares not to dwell on regrets or negative thoughts about her past challenges. She acknowledges the difficulties she faced after a life-changing accident that impacted her career and family dynamic. She mentions that despite a six-year journey of hospital visits, therapy, and overcoming depression, she found strength through gratitude. Expressing that gratitude has been her medicine, she recounts a moment in the hospital when focusing on the positive aspects of her life shifted her perspective.    [20:13] She shares the importance of grit in the entrepreneurial journey, highlighting the need for boundaries to prevent overworking. Drawing on personal experiences, she distinguishes between grit and resilience, stating that grit, while involving work ethic and perseverance, becomes resilience when combined with community and connection. Resilience, in her view, is the ability to choose joy and happiness despite setbacks, to repeatedly get back up, and to adapt to challenges. She metaphorically links resilience to navigating curves, underlining the importance of slowing down when needed.    [24:23] Amberly reflects on her journey of self-discovery, noting that her self-worth was initially tied to her career success and appearance. When these were stripped away due to the accident, she had to dig deep and humble herself, eventually realizing that intrinsic worth isn't determined by external achievements. The experience taught her to appreciate the resilience of the human body and spirit. She shares that the accident led to a profound shift in perspective, fostering a sense of self-worth independent of external validations.    [27:22] She mentions that within a year, she launched a podcast, secured influential guests, and published her first book, a testament to the power of belief and encouragement. She shares the importance of leaders seeing potential in their team members, even when individuals might struggle to envision their own success. It's the leader's responsibility to articulate and cast a vision, guiding others toward their full potential.   [29:45] Amberly reflects on the challenges she faced during her recovery from addiction. Attending twelve-step meetings and undergoing therapy, she emphasizes the difficulty of the process, acknowledging the importance of confidence. Grounded in self-acceptance, she proudly identifies as a recovering alcoholic while also embracing her role as a motivational speaker and top podcast host. Despite facing negative comments, she remains unfazed, emphasizing her gratitude, resilience, and grounded sense of self.    [32:38] She shares insights into her journey of self-acceptance and resilience after a life-altering motorcycle accident. She highlights the transformative moment when her doctor treated her deformed leg with care and appreciation, inspiring her to learn to love herself again. Discussing the challenges teenagers face with social media and self-image, Amberly emphasizes the importance of self-love and parental influence. Despite budget concerns, she is determined to create a meaningful and impactful experience for attendees.   [40:52] Closing Quote: Remember, we should not judge people by their peak of excellence, but by the distance they have traveled from the point where they started. -Henry Ward Beecher.    Quotable Quotes: "There is a way to PACE through pain."   "PACER stands for Perspective, Acceptance, Community, Endurance, and Rest."   "Acceptance is the key to any transformation."   "When you fully accept and embrace who you are, self-confidence and courage naturally emerge, empowering you to take decisive actions for a fulfilling life, make optimal business decisions, and prioritize your health."   "Grit without connection and community is merely resistance."   "We experience burnout when we forget why we're doing what we're doing."   "It's crucial for leaders and entrepreneurs to find time for rest and recovery."   "Gratitude changes everything."   "You need grit to be successful because being an entrepreneur is not easy."   "Resilience is your ability to choose to move forward and have the courage to lead a life of joy and happiness."   "You have to discover who you truly are."   "We are all worthy as is."   "It is helpful to have someone believe in you before you can believe in yourself."   "I don't just teach them how to be a speaker; I give them a platform."   "If you can do it and find joy in the journey, we will ultimately reach a better place."   This is the book mentioned in our discussion with Amberly:     Resources Mentioned: The Leadership Podcast | Sponsored by | Rafti Advisors. LLC | Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC | Amberly LagoLinkedIn | Amberly Lago Website | Unstoppable Website | Amberly Lago Instagram | Amberly Lago Twitter |  

Mark Rangell, Chief Operating Officer at Ryte and a digital health and technology strategy consultant, shared the story of his friendship with Jan Rutherford and Jim Vaselapolus. He highlights the role of curiosity in fostering connections, leading to friendships, business partnerships, and joint investments. Mark discusses the aspects of growing a business, emphasizing the importance of a diverse team with shared values and the use of specific tools and processes. He describes a scaling approach that focuses on principles and responsibilities, enabling team members to understand their roles and align with the company's goals. Mark believes that successful scaling involves particular techniques, a unified team, and the right motivations for individuals. Reflecting on his career's various "acts," including figuring things out, leading turnarounds, and working with a healthcare AI firm, Mark underscores the importance of storytelling over writing books. He advises a mindful approach to stress management, focusing on happiness and controlling what one can.     Key Takeaways:   [02:54] Mark shares that he recently joined Allegiance Stadium's guest experience team, taking on the role out of a mix of community service and curiosity about the Raiders organization. Despite only working a few games, he now knows every tunnel in the stadium and enjoys full access on game days, including the Super Bowl. Describing the role as a form of leadership, he appreciates troubleshooting and engaging with people from diverse backgrounds.    [05:45] He narrated how he met Jan Rutherford, who was once, a client during his time at Geneva Pharmaceuticals in Colorado. They quickly evolved into a personal friendship that was strengthened over family outings and casual get-togethers. Their connection extended to Chicago, where Mark and Jim, meanwhile, both in the technology sector, formed a small, trusted group through the Chicago Technology Association. This group provided a safe space for leaders in small to mid-sized companies.   [11:06] Mark explains that effective networking should be genuine and rooted in an authentic appreciation for others. He stresses the importance of curiosity in understanding individuals, leading to friendships, business collaborations, and shared investments. Mark also mentions that successful networking is rooted in caring for people, genuine interest, and effective listening, stating that success and sales naturally follow authentic connections.   [17:12] He shares about scaling a business, emphasizing the importance of diverse individuals aligned by mission, vision, and values. He highlights the significance of tools and processes, citing a scaling mechanism adopted over 20 years ago with a "bill of rights" and corresponding obligations. This approach empowers individuals to question and understand their roles within the organization, ensuring alignment with overarching goals. Mark believes that successful scaling involves techniques, a cohesive team, and the right motivations for individuals.   [19:55] Mark explains that adapting to change is crucial for effective leadership. He highlights the need to adjust communication styles based on evolving trends, emphasizing the importance of techniques that stand the test of time. Drawing parallels with sports analytics in football, he stresses that sticking to outdated methods can lead to defeat, underlining the necessity of adaptation in various contexts.   [21:27] He reflects on his journey, realizing the entrance of what they term "act six" at the age of 60, breaking down their career into different phases. The first phase, or "act one," was the formative years he spent at IBM and in other roles, focusing on figuring things out and climbing the product management ladder. The second phase involved a turnaround situation where he, along with a group, addressed financial mismanagement.    [26:12] In acts three, four, and five of Mark’s career, he faced both successes and challenges, including being a first-time CEO and establishing a successful consulting firm. Act six, the current phase, emerged unexpectedly through networking. Motivated by the potential impact of AI in healthcare, he joined a healthcare AI firm. He emphasizes his motivation for joining, driven by a desire to contribute to the AI industrial revolution and improve healthcare outcomes. From a leadership standpoint, Mark emphasizes the importance of diversity, curiosity, and collaboration within the team.   [31:57] Mark acknowledges that facing challenges, discomfort, and even clinical depression has been part of his journey, often triggered by business-related factors. He then explains the inevitability of encountering uncomfortable situations and advises adapting to them rather than seeking them out. Mark also reflects on his experiences, stressing the importance of finding points of difference, pursuing happiness, and surrounding oneself with people who bring joy. He defines success as one's happiness and moral compass, emphasizing that financial success follows hard work and luck.    [35:38] He mentions that he values storytelling over writing books and encourages a conscious approach to managing life stress. Mark emphasizes controlling variables within one's control, letting go of stress in uncontrollable situations, and focusing on happiness for oneself and others. Reflecting on past challenges, he urges a perspective shift, advising not to sweat the small stuff and to navigate challenges resiliently. He then expresses optimism in the next generation's ability to make positive changes and leave a better world.   [39:22] Closing Quote: Remember, if you are not willing to risk the unusual, you will have to settle for the ordinary. -Anthony Robbins   Quotable Quotes: “Networking should come naturally to you.”   “Networking has to be genuine, and you have to genuinely appreciate people.”   “If you authentically care about people and engage in meaningful activities, success, sales, and other achievements naturally follow.”   “The key is to genuinely like and care about people, actively listen, and show interest in their perspectives.”   “Scaling a business involves bringing together individuals with diverse qualities.”   “In scaling a business, connect individuals authentically through a shared mission, vision, and values.”   “Successful scaling requires effective techniques, a robust team, and individuals with the right motivations.”   "There will be times in your life when you face challenges."   "You must be prepared to respond to inevitable and uncomfortable situations.”   “Success is defined by your happiness.”   "Financial success will follow if you work hard, catch a few breaks, and are fortunate.”   “If your guiding principle is happiness, and you're sincerely a kind person willing to dedicate some time to assist others, even if there's no immediate transactional benefit, then you're on the right path.”   “You will encounter challenges, which will build the resilience needed to navigate through them.”   “People learn from stories.”   “Control variables within your control.”   “If you can do it and find joy in the journey, we’ll ultimately reach a better place.”   Resources Mentioned: The Leadership Podcast | Sponsored by | Rafti Advisors. LLC | Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC | Mark Rangell LinkedIn | Execullence Website | Ryte.ai LinkedIn |  

Dr. Preston Cline, co-founder and director of the Mission Critical Team Institute, shares insights from his historical challenges and emphasizes leadership qualities such as inquiry, curiosity, kindness, and dialogue engagement. He discusses the challenges faced by today's generation, emphasizing the importance of instilling curiosity and optimism while practicing information discipline. With a background in education, Dr. Preston specializes in navigating extreme uncertainty and addressing issues related to the transfer of tacit knowledge. He also delves into team-building strategies and the importance of cognitive diversity. Dr. Preston is a proponent of reshaping the internal dialogue of young female leaders and underscores the significance of asking questions, including those that might seem "dumb," to uncover valuable insights.     Key Takeaways:   [03:20] Dr. Preston shares the time period marked by the war on crack and the AIDS epidemic, Draconian measures were implemented, including a three-strike rule and a 75-foot rule. This meant that individuals in proximity to a drug raid, even if unrelated, could face legal consequences. He emphasizes inner-city challenges in addressing juvenile delinquency, highlighting the complex interplay of socioeconomic factors, race, gender, and physicality.   [04:57] He mentions that the key quality of effective leaders is leading with inquiry. He added based on his experience that successful leaders are characterized by kindness, generosity with their time, and a penchant for engaging in dialogue. Dr. Preston advocates for the strategic use of curiosity, suggesting that "weaponizing" it can be a valuable asset. Additionally, he incorporates David Cooper's work on appreciative inquiry on the significance of thorough investigation and understanding of questions to overcome biases and hidden agendas in responses.   [07:00] Dr. Preston shares an impactful story from their experience at MCTI, highlighting the importance of narrative in teaching. He mentions Claire Murphy, the director of the story, emphasizing the neuroscience of narrative and its distinct impact on the brain compared to factual information. Dr. Preston reflects on the lesson learned from his boss, Phil, which is the importance of taking action and contributing to positive change, rather than waiting for ideal circumstances.   [10:25] He shares an impactful experience, working at a camp for kids with cancer. Amidst emotional challenges, Dr. Preston learns a valuable lesson about facing difficult realities collectively and finding hope in unexpected places. He draws a historical parallel to post-World War I Britain, highlighting the unintended consequences of a generation raised in a protective environment. He mentions the importance of not blaming the current generation, but rather taking the responsibility to teach essential life skills.    [16:14] Dr. Preston shares that the current generation is the first to experience a situation perceived as worse than the previous one. Calling the attention of leaders, there is a need to instill a sense of curiosity and optimism in the face of challenges. Regarding leadership, Dr. Preston warns against public complaints, noting that such behavior portrays leaders as victims rather than inspirers. Leaders are urged to practice information discipline, being mindful of the emotional impact of the content they consume and transmit, while maintaining the importance of positivity, hope, and inspiration.   [20:21] He shares his background in education that focuses on teaching individuals how to navigate extreme uncertainty. At MCTI, he addresses the tacit knowledge transfer problem, where being skilled at a task doesn't guarantee effective teaching. Working with instructor cadres in various fields, including medicine, fire, special operations, NASA, and law enforcement, he shares his aim which is to help operators become articulate instructors. He also added that MCTI conducts courses and training to enhance instructors' abilities in conveying tacit knowledge efficiently and effectively.   [22:07] Dr. Preston shares that the approach to building and training teams depends on the nature of the problem set they are addressing. Teams are formed in response to specific challenges, either ordered or unordered. For ordered problems, contingency planning is crucial, and training focuses on prepared responses. Meanwhile, unordered problems, like emergencies, require teams to be adaptable and possess diverse cognitive skills. He also mentions the tactical swarms, such as those in trauma situations, involve individuals with distinct roles who come together quickly. He emphasizes cognitive diversity, encouraging varied thinking, and the tolerance for "weirdness" to avoid cloning and enhance team capacity.   [26:31] He shares that the key to empowering young female leaders and enhancing overall conceptual potential is reshaping their inner dialogue to boost confidence and encourage them to speak up. Dr. Preston also mentions that despite possessing intelligence and creativity, women often face barriers to having their voices heard, both internally and externally. When becoming instructors or leaders, he shares the approach that needs to shift towards leading with questions, which is to help others develop their problem-solving capacity rather than just offering solutions.    [32:07] Dr. Preston suggests asking dumb questions to understand the situation better. He explains the power of seemingly "dumb" questions, revealing overlooked issues and offering valuable perspectives. Dr. Preston then encourages embracing the superpower of asking questions that others may shy away from, emphasizing kindness amid the challenges the world faces.   [33:26] Closing Quote: Remember, in character, in manner, in style, in all things, the supreme excellence is simplicity.- Henry Wadsworth Longfellow   Quotable Quotes: “If you can weaponize your curiosity, that's a superpower.”   “Always lead with inquiry.”   “Your brain encodes narrative differently than it encodes facts, so we teach through story.”   “Too many young people entering the leadership are often waiting for Superman to arrive.”   “Hope can come anywhere.”   "We need to inspire people to become part of the solution rather than identifying as victims."   "When you publicly complain about a problem, what you are explicitly stating is that you see yourself as a victim."   "Your role as a leader is to inspire and to have a vision for what is possible."   "Observe closely what individuals are consuming and, subsequently, what they are transmitting in terms of positivity, hope, inspiration, and the like."   “Every team is created in response to a problem set.”   “There is no team that exists in isolation.”   “We should train people for contingencies.”   “If you're not willing to tolerate a certain amount of weirdness, then you end up cloning your people, and you're going to reduce your capacity.”   “Inquire and lead with curiosity.”   “Sometimes, dumb questions are the most powerful question.”   “Be kind to each other because the world is a bit of a mess right now.”   Resources Mentioned: The Leadership Podcast | Sponsored by | Rafti Advisors. LLC | Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC | Dr. Preston Cline LinkedIn | Mission Critical Team Institute Website | Mission Critical Team Institute Instagram |  

Karen Tiber Leland, an author, coach, and Sterling Marketing Group's founder, emphasizes the importance of a strategic and thoughtful approach in personal and business branding. She notes the evolution of personal branding, highlighting its shift towards responsibly showcasing contributions rather than mere self-promotion. Karen provides expert strategies for attracting ideal clients and effectively creating branding, especially in business. She underlines the significance of CEOs actively participating in social media to foster consumer trust. Advising CEOs, she recommends focusing on practical experience and skills rather than just certifications, to better demonstrate expertise and attract suitable clients. Additionally, Karen underscores the lifelong significance of learning and the necessity of an open mindset, asserting that the capacity to learn is not limited to any age group.     Key Takeaways:   [03:06] Karen shares the importance of a strategic, thoughtful approach in personal and business branding, cautioning against one-size-fits-all methods. There is a caution against the tendency to confuse tactics with strategy, urging a clear understanding of brand definition, strategy, and tactics as distinct components. She mentions that defining a brand involves more than just a logo or tagline, with various facets to consider, and asserts that understanding the business and customer is the crucial first step in this process.   [07:38] She mentions that with technological advancements, especially in the realms of the internet and AI, executives, and entrepreneurs are compelled to build a robust personal brand. Karen notes the broad impact of a strong personal brand on investor relations, talent retention and recruitment, and customer trust. She stresses the CEO's need to be active on social media, as it is likely to build trust in the company among customers. Karen highlights proactive reputation management in the AI age, emphasizing the need to train platforms like Google about identity and values.   [10:35] Karen tackles the issue of false expertise claims in inaccessible fields like marketing, coaching, and sales, recognizing the challenge consumers encounter in discerning genuine experts from those making false claims. Even with tools like ChatGPT, Karen highlights the importance of maintaining a unique voice and perspective in content creation. She stresses educating consumers about valuing experience over certificates and short-term programs. She believes taking a stand for one's knowledge is crucial, attracting the right clients and deterring those who may not appreciate true expertise.   [15:33] She mentions the unrealistic expectation of completing an entire to-do list in a day, instead, prioritizing the two or three top tasks that will define a successful day, considering additional tasks as a bonus. She challenges the illusion of completing everything and advocates for realistic prioritization. Additionally, Karen notes a common issue among CEOs and entrepreneurs, where they engage in tasks that could be delegated, often driven by a need for control.   [19:50] Karen talks about the changing work expectations for Gen X and Gen Z individuals, emphasizing the importance for companies to adapt by redefining work to include remote options, stressing the need for leaders to acquire or refine skills for effective remote team management. Discussing remote work challenges and benefits enables global hiring but poses issues with time zones and cultures. With this, she suggests boosting online meeting interactivity, maintaining efficiency, and fostering connections through emails and calls.   [25:06] She shares her passion for trail riding and how engaging in such activities contributes to their happiness and overall well-being, highlighting that there are valuable lessons she had learned from horseback riding, theater, and art, which they integrate into their coaching sessions as analogies or metaphors. Karen emphasizes the importance of being a satisfied and healthy individual when coaching others. Her diverse experiences have contributed to her creativity and effectiveness in supporting individuals and companies in expressing their uniqueness through personal and business branding.   [29:56] Karen shares the significance of lifelong learning and having an open mindset, regardless of age, advocating for continuous learning for everyone. The significance of acquiring the skill of learning itself, noting that being a lifelong learner keeps individuals interested and growing. She also touches on the concept of a growth mindset and how it is easier to work with individuals possessing it, even if they lack specific technical skills, as opposed to those with a fixed mindset.   [34:51] Karen shares the '1% improvement' strategy, emphasizing that small enhancements, like refining a LinkedIn profile or acquiring new skills, can lead to cumulative personal and professional growth. Karen discusses the evolving landscape of personal branding, noting that it's no longer about bragging, but responsibly communicating one's contributions. She also explains that in a world driven by visibility and engagement, individuals must take responsibility for sharing achievements to make a meaningful impact.   [38:17] Closing Quote: Remember, you don't need a corporation or a marketing company to brand you now: you can do it yourself. You can establish who you are with a social media following. - Ray Allen Quotable Quotes: “When rebranding, clearly define the brand, its strategy, and tactics for a successful transformation.”   “A personal brand used to be a luxury, but is now a necessity.”   “Train Google across the Internet on who you are and what you stand for, or you're not going to be found.”   “It's not just about reactively managing your reputation, it's about managing your reputation proactively.”   “Having a distinct voice and a distinct point of view and distinct information will separate you.”   “Use AI as an assistant, don't use it as a replacement.”   "You have to thoroughly consider the correct strategic and tactical approach when doing a business branding.”   “Be willing to take a stand for who you are, what you've done, what you know, and back it up.”   “The key is to learn to prioritize what matters most.”   “Leaders should train themselves or get trained in skills for handling virtual teams.”   “You have to learn how to create interactivity so that people aren't just sitting there for hours just listening statically.”   “It's hard to be coaching people if you're not happy and healthy yourself.”   “Analogy makes a huge difference.”   “Oftentimes, the most powerful examples for people are things that are outside the business.”   “One strength of a CEO is the willingness to learn.”   “You have to learn how to learn.”   “The key is being open to learning. This is what creates movement and growth, creates value, whether it's in business or life.”   “1% improvement makes a big difference.”   This is the book mentioned in our discussion with Karen:     Resources Mentioned: The Leadership Podcast | Sponsored by | Rafti Advisors. LLC | Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC | Karen Tiber Leland LinkedIn | Sterling Marketing Group Website | Karen Tiber Leland Instagram |  

Mark Williams, CEO and managing partner of Brokers International shares insights from his book, "Lead, Don't Manage: 12 Lessons in Creating a Leadership Culture Based on Core Values," which addresses gaps in leadership attributes. Mark shares the top three leadership mistakes and their root causes, including issues related to hiring and the impact of technology on workload and burnout prevention. He also discusses complexities of managing productivity in a technology-driven world, featuring a quirky theory of assigning numbers based on project-handling abilities.  Key Takeaways: [02:10] Mark shares a crucial lesson he learned from his military days: the difference between respecting a leader and personally liking them. Jim and Jan  asked him if today's younger workforce would willingly work for someone they respect but don't necessarily like. Drawing on his experience as a professional and parent, Mark shared insightful perspectives. He also reflected on whether the current generation is ready for challenges, comparing their experiences with the resilience of past generations.   [06:16]  He shares his career journey from stockbroker to CEO and discusses his motivation to write his book, "Lead Don't Manage". He identifies a gap in leadership skills, inspiring him to compile twelve essential lessons in "Lead, Don't Manage: 12 Lessons in Creating a Leadership Culture Based on Core Values." He also talks about the challenges of middle management in today's streamlined companies.   [15:40] Mark shares the top three leadership mistakes we're all making. Jim raises a big-picture question on the root cause behind these mistakes. Mark identifies the wrong person in the right seat as a common issue, often originating from hiring missteps. He also shares his insights about the impact of technology on workload and the challenge of finding the right pace to prevent burnout.    [24:35] Marks talks about the complexities of managing productivity in the evolving landscape of technology and data-driven decision-making. He also talks about the struggle of finding the sweet spot between individual productivity and management capability. He discusses a quirky theory of assigning people numbers based on their project-handling abilities.  [33:41] He share a personal experiences of repeating mistakes and discusses the intersection of effort, grace, and the desire for change.    [37:47] Mark expresses his desire to make a positive impact on people's lives and shares a guiding personal quote: 'If I can help you get where you want to go, I end up getting where I want to go.' It's the ripple effect of positive influence and how small acts of kindness or guidance can lead to impactful outcomes.   [39:41] Mark talks about the realities of work-life balance and leadership. He shares insights on burnout, emphasizing the importance of setting boundaries. He also discusses the impact of technology on our lives, and Mark leaves listeners with a powerful challenge: know your strengths and be open to seeking help where needed.    [41:28] Closing Quote: Remember, the test of leadership is not to put great into humanity, but to elicit it, for the greatness is already there. - James Buchanan    Quotable Quotes:   "As leaders, sometimes you have to make difficult decisions, and they're not always liked, but that doesn't mean everyone's going to like it."   "I think today people expect everything to be warm and fuzzy, and oftentimes as leaders, sometimes you have to make difficult decisions."   "It's harder to be a middle manager today than it used to be."   "There's a lot to navigate in a company, especially the larger the company, the more opportunities, usually for internal growth."   "If you're not making mistakes, you're not working. Just don't make the same mistake twice."   "Communication is incredibly important, and a lack of communication can be horrible."   "Technology has made people's jobs harder. Instead of accepting all the advances and making your life easier, we're putting more on people."   "Balance, not burnout."   "I think as a leader, if you're not granting your employees the ability to make a mistake, you're doing something wrong. There's a lot of trust in knowing that an employee can make an error, and it's not the end of the world. It actually can be a really good thing."   "I think those of us that do go back that far, we do have to remember we are asking a lot of people, and it is overload sometimes. And it is really up to us as leaders to figure out what pace is actually doable."   "Learn to know what you're really good at and be open to the things you're not and manage yourself that way. There are lots of things that I do really well and there's lots of things I don't do really well. And I know them, I know a lot of them and I'm willing to take criticism."   "Understand and know what you're good at and be willing to get help on what you're not, and you'll be a much better leader."   "The test of leadership is not to put great into humanity, but to elicit it, for the greatness is already there."   Here are the books mentioned in this episode   Resources Mentioned: The Leadership Podcast | Sponsored by | Rafti Advisors. LLC | Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC | Mark Williams LinkedIn | Brokers International Website | Mark Williams Website | Mark Williams Podcast |

Stan Phelps, an author and speaker, uses color symbolism in his 'The Goldfish' series to represent marketplace dynamics. He suggests goldfish as a metaphor for market growth, emphasizing the importance of internal growth in a business. Stan advises companies to differentiate themselves from competitors through unique characteristics and stresses the importance of managing remote teams and setting clear expectations. He underscores the role of purpose and intent in delivering superior customer experiences, advocating for small, value-driven actions and balanced messaging to build trust without seeming inauthentic. Key Takeaways: [05:23] Stan Phelps shares the difficulty organizations face, emphasizing differentiating through the "why" and "how" of their operations. Customer experience becomes paramount, asserting that a brand is now defined by customer perceptions and recommendations. He advises centers on providing added value and ensuring a streamlined, low-maintenance experience for customers. This approach, derived from studying numerous organizations, is likened to a dating theory of seeking high value and low maintenance. He also suggests strategic brand strategies as a means of standing out in the marketplace. [09:46] He emphasizes the interdependence of brand, customer, and employee experiences, prioritizing employees for a positive workplace culture. Stan mentions that engaged and happy employees are crucial for creating enthusiastic customer advocates. He also introduces the concept of the "Green goldfish," symbolizing that, especially for younger generations, monetary compensation is important but not the sole focus. Beyond financial rewards, creating an environment that fosters a sense of belonging and personal growth is deemed crucial for employee satisfaction and career fulfillment.   [16:36] Stan Phelps emphasizes that effective leaders grant freedom and flexibility while managing expectations and establishing guardrails to ensure a unified direction. Acknowledging the benefits of flexibility for both employees and the company, he suggests finding a balance by setting boundaries. Additionally, regarding compensation, Stan advises against solely focusing on this factor, emphasizing the importance of a holistic approach to employee satisfaction, including onboarding and continuous support in their new roles.  [18:51] He acknowledges that in the era of remote work via Zoom, the challenge for leaders is to cultivate company culture when physical presence is limited. He proposes a nuanced approach, suggesting occasional in-person gatherings, balancing mindful togetherness with individual flexibility. Stan highlights the importance of these moments for fostering serendipity, mentoring opportunities, and strengthening bonds. [21:22] Stan Phelps draws parallels between the growth factors of goldfish and organizations, highlighting five key reasons for their growth. Firstly, the size of the bowl or pond correlates with the market size in business—the larger the market, the greater the growth potential. Secondly, growth is impacted by the number of competitors, with an inverse relationship—fewer competitors often lead to more growth. The third factor, previously challenging but influenced by external events, is the quality of the surrounding environment, akin to economic factors in business. The fourth reason relates to a goldfish's early months, mirroring an organization's critical initial period. Lastly, he mentions the large number of siblings a baby goldfish has, connecting it to organizational growth dynamics. [25:38] He explores the human dynamic of intent and competence, explaining that people instinctively assess others by asking two questions: the intent towards them (friend or foe) and the ability to carry out that intent. He also mentions the overuse of discussing "why" in business, asserting that actions speak louder than words.  [36:00] Closing Quote: Remember, he who learns but does not think is lost; but he who thinks but does not learn is in danger. - Confucius   Quotable Quotes: “It's about finding signature ways that you can stand out in the marketplace.”   "Great leaders provide people with freedom and flexibility while also managing expectations effectively."   “Leaders keep people all going in the same direction.”   "It goes beyond the market economy and transactional mindset, urging to do a little bit extra."   "I believe the biggest myth in business is meeting the expectations of the customers we serve."   "You either exceed expectations or fall short."   "I believe that emphasizing value and maintenance are two significant factors in differentiating the experience you provide."   "The quality of the surrounding environment you're in also influences your growth."   These are the books mentioned in our discussion with Stan: Resources Mentioned:  The Leadership Podcast | Sponsored by | Rafti Advisors. LLC | Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC | Stan Phelps LinkedIn  Stan Phelps Twitter | Stan Phelps Instagram | Stan Phelps Website |

Nir Eyal, a consultant, educator, and author of "Indistractable: How to Control Your Attention and Choose Your Life," delves into his personal journey with distractions and parenting. He highlights the crucial role of mastering distraction control for success in various life aspects. Eyal points out that despite the vast availability of information in today's world, the real challenge is to overcome personal distractions. He advocates against a generic approach, suggesting instead that individuals make deliberate choices that reflect their personal values. A key focus of his discussion is on internal triggers, noting that about 90% of distractions are self-originated. Eyal identifies discomfort as a primary cause of distraction and underscores the importance of becoming aware of and managing these emotional states for better self-regulation. Key Takeaways: [06:45] Nir Eyal shares that he published the "Indistractable" book before COVID-19, grateful for completing it amid global chaos. Criticizing simplistic advice blaming technology for distractions, he stresses its integral role in the modern world. He also shares that the book covers distractions, especially while working from home, emphasizing that 90% come from within. Nir Eyal challenges the idea that distraction is a recent issue, citing Plato's writings 2500 years ago. Distractions are not solely due to technology, but a longstanding, complex challenge with deeper roots, requiring a more empowering solution. [12:15] He shares his realization that the power to be "indistractable" is crucial in every aspect of life, including mental health, physical health, business, and relationships. Nir Eyal argues that controlling attention is essential for acquiring new skills and being productive. The title of the book, "Indistractable," reflects this focus on mastering attention to shape one's life. He then addresses the concept of being "hooked" and clarifies that it's not in opposition to being "indistractable", believing that it's possible to leverage psychological tools to create positive habits. He also acknowledges the potential risks of overusing well-designed products, particularly in the realm of media and social platforms.  [18:08] Nir Eyal emphasizes the difficulty in building addictive products and highlights his book's contribution to applying consumer psychology to habit-forming products. He also discusses his goal of helping individuals turn their values into time and execute their priorities effectively, clarifying that their focus is not on dictating how people should spend their time, but on assisting them in aligning their actions with their values. He argues that the most dangerous distraction is the one unnoticed by individuals, illustrated by personal experiences of getting sidetracked by seemingly productive tasks that deviate from the original plan. [26:23] Nir Eyal clarifies that the issue with to-do lists is not in using them, but in the way people traditionally use them. He also talks about the importance of moving beyond simply listing tasks and emphasizes the need for a prioritization process. The problems with traditional to-do lists are the lack of constraints, leading to an endless list, and the tendency for people to measure their self-worth based on completed tasks. Nir Eyal challenges the notion of measuring productivity by what is finished, suggesting that the key metric is whether individuals do what they said they would do without distraction. He promotes the "indistractable" method, advocating for focused, distraction-free work in specific time intervals.  [36:56] He introduces the technique of schedule syncing, especially beneficial for those dealing with interruptions from superiors. Nir Eyal describes the process of creating a time box calendar, allowing individuals to physically show their boss how they plan to spend their time. This proactive approach seeks the boss's assistance in prioritizing tasks rather than bluntly saying no. He emphasizes the effectiveness of schedule syncing not only in corporate settings but also in personal relationships, sharing how it has positively impacted their marriage. [41:59] Nir eyal shares the changing landscape where information is large, but some challenges come with it such as overcoming distractions.  He contradicts a one-size-fits-all approach, but instead encourages individuals to make conscious trade-offs in line with their values.   [48:08] Closing Quote: Remember, the difference between an amateur and a professional is in their habits. An amateur has amateur habits. A professional has professional habits. We can never free ourselves from habit, but we can replace bad habits with good ones. -Steven Pressfield Quotable Quotes: “I write books not because of what I know, but because of what I want to know.” “Let's not glorify the past.” “Distraction is not a new problem.” “Anybody who's blessed with opportunities finds themselves struggling with how to prioritize their time and their attention and their life.” “You cannot be productive unless you know how to focus.” “How we spend our time is controlled by how we control our attention.” “Indistractable is about how we break bad habits.” “You can't just trust what people say because people will say one thing and do something else.” “The most pernicious form of distraction for leaders is the distraction that you don't even realize is distracting you.” “If you don't take care of yourselves, you can't take care of other people, you can't make the world a better place.” “You can't call something a distraction unless you know what it distracted you from.” “The problem is that despite knowing what to do, people don't do it.” “The root cause of the problem is an uncomfortable sensation.” This is the book mentioned in our discussion with Nir Eyal: Resources Mentioned: The Leadership Podcast | Sponsored by | Rafti Advisors. LLC | Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC | Nir Eyal LinkedIn | Nir Eyal Twitter | Nir Eyal YouTube | Nir Eyal Facebook | Nir Eyal Instagram |

Martin Gutmann, an author and professor at the Lucerne School of Business, challenges traditional views on leadership with his concept of the "action fallacy." He argues that effective leadership often involves subtle, unnoticed actions rather than just visible, dramatic ones. Gutmann emphasizes the importance of historical skills in the digital era, particularly in scrutinizing and distilling information. He also highlights the value of strategic inaction in leadership, as exemplified by Churchill's delay of the Normandy invasions. Additionally, he notes that while emotional intelligence is important, not all impactful leaders visibly exhibit it. His perspective broadens the understanding of leadership, recognizing the significance of quieter, less conspicuous contributions. Key Takeaways [03:57] Martin sheds light on his intriguing book, "The Unseen Leader: How History Can Help Us Rethink Leadership." He talks about the concept of the "action fallacy," challenging the common misconception that effective leaders are defined by dramatic actions. He shares insights into the disconnect between historical scholarship and contemporary leadership narratives. Using examples like Churchill, he highlights the importance of recognizing unseen leaders who strategically navigate challenges rather than creating chaos. Martin also explores the less-known explorer Roald Amundsen, emphasizing his overlooked achievements due to a lack of sensational crises. [11:07] Martin discusses the intriguing dynamics of crisis management and leadership recognition. He draws parallels between special operations and the business world, exploring the tendency to reward leaders when situations go awry. He emphasizes the need to celebrate those who adeptly navigate and mitigate crises, challenging the prevailing culture that often glorifies crisis-oriented behavior. Martin also touches on the paradox of success going unnoticed and reflects on the story of Lawrence of Arabia, exploring misconceptions and contrasting narratives of characters.  [13:27] Martin shares the captivating story of Gertrude Bell, an often-overlooked leader in the post-World War I Middle East. Despite being the driving force behind the creation of Iraq and achieving remarkable feats in archaeology and translation, Bell's contributions have been overshadowed by the more cinematic narrative of Lawrence of Arabia. He delves into Bell's leadership style, emphasizing her pen-and-paper approach and strategic diplomacy in contrast to Lawrence's adventurous exploits.  [17:22] Martin unveils the nuanced leadership of Winston Churchill during World War II, challenging common misconceptions. Jim and Jan also express amazement at discovering previously overlooked aspects of Churchill's role, emphasizing the deliberate crafting of the narrative portraying Britain standing alone in 1940. Martin highlights Churchill's strategic communication skills in influencing U.S. involvement and draws parallels to modern political strategies. He also touches on the power of storytelling in shaping history and explores how the Internet age has democratized historical perspectives. [19:24] Martin discusses the challenges historians face in navigating the vast sea of information, from scarcity in ancient times to the overwhelming abundance today. He talks about how emerging digital tools and AI are reshaping historical scholarship, emphasizing the need for historians to adapt their skill sets. He then shifts to talk about the relevance of historical disciplines for contemporary business professionals, highlighting the importance of adopting investigative mindsets and discernment in distilling relevant information. Martin underscores the significance of applying lessons from historical narratives to enhance decision-making in the modern business landscape. [25:31] Martin challenges the traditional notion that action is always the hallmark of effective leadership, arguing for the virtue of strategic inaction. Drawing on historical figures such as Churchill, Martin talks about exploring instances where restraint and reflection played pivotal roles. Jim and Jan ask about the importance of emotional intelligence, Martin then discussing how self-awareness of one's traits can impact leadership effectiveness. Martin encourages everyone to reassess the leaders they celebrate, this episode advocates for recognizing and promoting individuals whose subtle yet profound impact is often overlooked.  [37:09] Closing quote: And remember, who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past. —  George Orwell Quotable Quotes “The first is that the leader who haphazardly ventures into the water, almost drowns, flails around, and then somehow miraculously makes it onto the other side, that's going to be the more interesting example to look at.” “The first thing to point out is that sometimes there is a crisis that you have done nothing to generate, and then you need to respond.” “There are certain persons who are very crisis prone, either because they seek out a crisis or they learn to reframe everything as a crisis.” “We're in a position of responsibility, and we're in a position where we can set an example, I think we need to start not only celebrating these crisis prone individuals, but also celebrating the people who avoid crisis, who mitigate them, and who might not be the loudest people in the room all the time.” “We pay more attention to a crisis, and we like people who are willing to stand firm in a crisis.” “If you want to learn about unseen leaders, people who exerted influence but maybe not in a position of authority within a hierarchy, there are going to be even fewer sources available.” “There may be other people who are having a greater impact that might just be harder to spot in your organizations. “ “Emotional intelligence is a key competence for leaders to cultivate.” “There are certain scenarios in which reacting quickly and immediately is the right course.” “Inaction is really the right action, and we should celebrate it.”  “You have to go back and examine some of the original sources to come away from it with a different perspective on the events and his role in those events.” Here are the books mentioned in this episode: Resources Mentioned The Leadership Podcast | Sponsored by | Rafti Advisors. LLC | Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC | Martin Gutmann LinkedIn | Martin Gutmann Website |  

As CEO of LaneTerralever (LT), Chris Johnson views AI as a tool augmenting human roles, not replacing them. Chris observes a chasm in the business world - a divide between those who harness AI with clear intent and those who remain oblivious to its sweeping impact. He forewarns of potential unemployment for individuals who shy away from embracing AI and its learning curve.  He recognizes AI's benefits but also stresses the need for strategic oversight due to concerns about explainability and accuracy. Discussing AI in hiring and employee resistance, Chris underlines the importance of change management strategies for successful AI integration. He also touches on the challenges of trust and authenticity in an AI-driven world and explores how AI can enhance skills in sales, emphasizing its role in complementing human abilities. Key Takeaways: [3:31] Chris discusses the current state of AI, particularly generative AI, within their team. They highlight both excitement and fear surrounding AI's capabilities. He stated that AI is not a threat to jobs, but rather it empowers those who know how to use it. Chris also shares the importance of learning to use AI tools strategically and creatively. While AI can handle repetitive tasks, individuals still need to understand how to leverage these tools for maximum efficiency. He shares the need for a continual learning mindset, as AI technology evolves rapidly, and younger individuals are more open to adopting new technologies, while older ones may be resistant due to established work habits.  [7:03] He expresses concern about how the automation of tasks in professions like accounting and law might impact the learning curve for younger professionals. It is a question whether AI reliance could hinder the development of in-depth knowledge gained through hands-on experience and mistakes. Chris also shares the capabilities of large language models like GPT, highlighting their proficiency in processing contextual information. However, there is still need for verification, as these models may not recognize when they provide incorrect or misleading information.  [12:37] Chris mentions that AI tools are affordable, with some versions even free. The real divide is in individuals' willingness to learn and adapt to these tools. He predicts a widening gap between those who embrace AI for efficiency and quality work and those who resist change. There is an impact on white-collar jobs is, emphasizing that AI is entering professions like accounting and marketing. In executive briefings, Chris observes a lack of investment in AI technologies and aims to raise awareness about their capabilities, such as coding, executing tasks, and data analysis.  [17:00] He shares that he introduced ChatGPT 4 to their company, providing licenses for all employees. However, they faced challenges in adoption and realized it was a leadership issue. They are now focusing on change management through regular teaching sessions to help employees use the tool effectively. Chris also encourages others to try ChatGPT Plus and experiment with the tool before starting tasks. He mentions the importance of time-saving potential, especially for tasks like writing emails, where the tool can generate a substantial portion, allowing users to edit and refine the content.  [21:28] Chris shares that AI champion as an empowering force for entrepreneurs, reducing barriers and facilitating independent business operations. However, he expresses concern about the surge in low-quality AI-generated content flooding the internet. This abundance poses challenges for reliable information, impacting search engines and customer reviews. Chris, then, advises caution, urging teams to cross-verify information from multiple sources to navigate the influx of potentially unreliable content. [28:37] He addresses AI concerns such as copyright and regulations, emphasizing open communication with clients and educating them about AI's benefits while respecting their comfort levels. Chris shares an example of a cybersecurity startup using ChatGPT to train sales teams in crafting effective emails, demonstrating AI's practical application. With the AI's transformative power, he mentions the importance of leadership in guiding ethical and effective use for enhanced efficiency and client relationships. In discussing customer experience challenges in siloed organizations, he shares the need for strong executive leadership to align departments around the customer for a seamless experience. [37:04] Chris proposes two strategies for improved ROI: broadening discussions to include retention economics and analyzing the full customer lifecycle using data, with a focus on post-purchase customer experience (CX). For growth and staffing, he suggests AI proficiency can facilitate growth without increasing staff or, alternatively, allow staff reduction while maintaining productivity. In managing workload and preventing burnout, Chris intervenes personally in identified hotspots, introducing AI tools to enhance efficiency and relieve stress, emphasizing empowerment for effective AI use by teams. [40:57] He outlines three impacts of AI on companies: individual efficiency, organizational efficiency, and innovation. Individual efficiency involves behavioral change for effective AI use. Organizational efficiency is demonstrated through automating tasks, like a client automaker's spreadsheet process. Chris also stresses tool creation for leveraging AI in organizational efficiency. Additionally, they highlight the long-term advantage of innovation, using AI for a competitive edge through unique solutions and data understanding. Reflecting on AI's current state, he acknowledges its early stage, stressing the need for a learning mindset to navigate the rapidly evolving field.  [42:16] Closing Quote: Remember, AI is not going to replace humans, but humans with AI are going to replace humans without AI. -Karim Lakhani Quotable Quotes: “The positive way to look at it is if you get to a point of growth, there is a path to growing without adding headcount.” “ We work with clients, and say, we do this, and our product is the greatest.” “As leaders, it's changing that behavior to get them to actually use it in the right way.” “Don't rely on the first article that you see about something because it may or may not be real.” “Don't go to just one customer review site, go to five before you buy something,” “Don't trust one source.” “But if you don't try, you don't ever know what it can or can't do.” “We're going to supply you with all the tools you need, but you still have to actually engage and use the tools that we're giving you.” “It's how are we going to lead people along and change behavior to get them to use those tools so they get the benefit and power from it.” “That's when I realized that was a me-problem if two people weren't using it right, that's a them-problem when everybody's not using it right.” “The starting point is just an understanding of what's possible.” “Make sure that the facts, figures, concepts that it's bringing into you are actually valid.” “If you're relying on their understanding of the world, that you're not giving it to it.” “And until you try it, you don't really know.” “You need to be strategic and creative.” “AI is not coming for your job, but a marketer who knows how to use AI is coming for your job.” Resources Mentioned: The Leadership Podcast | Sponsored by | Rafti Advisors. LLC | Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC | Chris Johnson LinkedIn | Chris Johnson Website | LaneTerralever Twitter |

Dr. Benjamin Ritter, founder of Live for Yourself Consulting, emphasizes the importance of humor in public speaking and maintaining a balance between calmness and charisma. He highlights the significance of standing out in leadership and embracing awkward situations to build confidence. Ben defines executive presence through three pillars: vision, credibility, and presence, and links it to a filtered level of emotional intelligence, focusing on authenticity and adaptation to organizational norms. He discusses building positive relationships, adapting, and situational leadership within organizations. Sharing his journey of overcoming social awkwardness, Ben contrasts this with his clients' fears and stresses the importance of identifying and addressing client pain points. He gives practical advice on personal development, such as minimizing media consumption and focusing on impactful content. Lastly, he advises employees to seek regular one-on-one meetings with leaders and suggests that job candidates inquire about a company's current focus during interviews.  Key Takeaways:  [02:21] Dr. Ben shares the importance of humor when speaking in front of the crowd. He also stated that it is important to maintain calmness while giving value to charisma in their professional life. Dr. Ben discusses his adaptability in soccer, being a "Swiss army knife”, praising adaptability but stresses the importance of standing out and occasionally being unconventional for leadership development. He also talked about the idea of intentionally embracing awkward situations to build confidence. [05:40] He discusses clients seeking to develop executive presence for success. Dr. Ben stresses the importance of defining it based on organizational expectations. Executive presence is broken down into three pillars: vision, credibility, and presence. These encompass actions, speech, and appearance. He also explains that executive presence is a filtered level of emotional intelligence, emphasizing authenticity while adapting to organizational expectations. He also mentions the importance of building positive relationships, adapting, and situationally leading within an organization. [12:35] Dr. Ben defines executive presence as the ability to influence and persuade without authority. He also discusses qualities of effective sports team captains, emphasizing the importance of quiet yet commanding composure and leading by example. Dr. Ben also mentions an article on self-leadership, where clarity is identified as the first pillar, crucial for avoiding feeling lost and achieving intentional goals. [20:35] He shares about personal growth, recounting how overcoming social awkwardness involved intentionally facing discomfort. Dr. Ben contrasts his experiences with clients who fear basic actions. He emphasizes the significance of identifying pain points, connecting with clients, and leading them towards beneficial solutions. Dr. Ben also mentions the importance of sales, especially for those looking to build side businesses.  [25:55] Dr. Ben emphasizes the importance of effective self-promotion, linking it to self-belief. Discomfort with self-promotion often stems from a lack of confidence in one's own value. He also exchanges lessons learned with Jim and Jan from hosting podcasts, including the realization that alcohol impairs podcast quality and the discovery of personal speech fillers during editing. Dr. Ben believes that famous individuals often have less interesting talk tracks, while real gems come from everyday stories.  [30:03] He offers practical advice on learning and personal development, like reducing media intake and focusing on impactful content repeatedly. Dr. Ben talks about the challenge of remembering key information and stresses the value of embedding learned concepts into daily life. Organizations prioritizing employee satisfaction only during prosperous times and suggests the need for improved metrics. Dr. Ben advocates for a shift in perspective, with employees taking a more proactive role in their careers and organizations creating environments conducive to employee engagement. [31:58] Dr. Ben emphasizes the employee's role in engagement, encouraging them to demand one-on-one meetings with leaders. In interviews, candidates should inquire about a company's current focus or what they are trying to address. Dr. Ben's clients seek the freedom to actively pursue their career ideas, challenging the perception that employees can't authentically show up at work. [36:08] Closing Quote: Remember, if you don't stick to your values when they're being tested, they're not values, they're hobbies. -John Stewart Quotable Quotes: “If you're trying to become a leader, make sure you turn that charisma on all the time.” “It's also important to stand out and to not always be the one that is following the lead and instead to help people be the leader.” “Let's figure out how to have a conversation with your manager to define what their expectations are.” “It's about creating alignment, being a champion and an advocate for the organization while also building a brand.” “Credibility is a combination of your skills.” “It's like being a leader without having, you don't need authority to be that leader.” “Self-leadership is the only true leadership in the world.” “The most important leader in your life is you” “No matter how incredible a leader you are, the people that you're supposedly leading are ultimately the ones making the decision.” “Without clarity, you tend to see people getting stuck, feeling lost, doubting themselves, investing in things that aren't really where they want to go.” “Don't drink alcohol and do podcasts. You think you're funny, but you're not.” “The most famous people with their talk track are the least interesting people to talk to, and that the real stories are where the real gems are.” “No matter what someone's story is, it tends to come down to a lot of the same things.” “If you find one book that makes a difference, read that book consistently until it stops making a difference.” “An organization should be an environment where employees can successfully engage towards their interests.” “If you were in an interview, your job is to ask enough questions to figure out what they're looking for and what they're trying to solve.” Resources Mentioned: The Leadership Podcast | Sponsored by | Rafti Advisors. LLC | Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC | Dr. Ben Ritter Website | Dr. Ben Ritter LinkedIn | Dr. Ben Ritter Twitter | Dr. Ben Ritter Instagram |  

Ed Batista, an executive coach and Stanford lecturer, discusses self-coaching, highlighting its relational aspect and the value of writing for self-reflection. He underscores the necessity of personalizing documentation techniques and references Stanford's successful "touchy-feely" course, explaining its organizational impact. Ed addresses the crucial role of coaching in today's divisive climate, focusing on the challenges leaders face in navigating polarizing social and political issues and providing guidance on effective leadership and team management through strong communication. Key Takeaways: [2:44] Ed describes his significant life transition from living in San Francisco for 30 years to unexpectedly moving to a working sheep and cattle ranch in Marin County due to the pandemic. Various factors, including the change to virtual work, retirement from teaching at Stanford, and a reassessment of priorities, led to this shift. He reflects on the challenges and educational experiences of rural living and shares the difficult decision to step away from teaching a course they founded at Stanford, "The Art of Self Coaching," but later on, realize that it was the right choice. [7:10] He explains that self-coaching is a self-directed process, but not a solitary one. Ed believes that while reflection is crucial, it is equally important to engage with others in the process. His teaching approach, which involves giving students readings and prompting them to integrate the material with personal experiences through writing. He then encourages students to recognize the need for both solitary reflection and engagement with others, as the latter is essential for discussing challenges and seeking help. [9:33] Ed shares about the value of reflective writing, such as journaling, for personal development. He mentions that traditional diary-style journaling can be tedious and unsustainable, leading many to abandon the practice. Subsequently, he advocates for a more personalized and sustainable approach, emphasizing that the act of writing itself, regardless of whether one revisits the content, has numerous benefits. Ed also provides insight into their experience with a course called "Interpersonal Dynamics" at Stanford, also known as "touchy-feely”. He provides a historical context, detailing the course's evolution and its enduring impact on individuals and organizations. [17:09] With the increasing challenges in this world, including social, political, and economic issues, Ed explains that there is a need for coaching, particularly among leaders. In the current environment, leaders may find it challenging to navigate these complexities and may feel compelled to issue statements or commitments that prove difficult to fulfill. With this, the need for leaders to address these challenges in coaching relationships is crucial, because coaching provides a safe space for leaders to acknowledge the pressure they face, discuss the complexity of issues, and explore different perspectives.  [20:11] He discusses the challenges faced by leaders in addressing social and political issues within the current tumultuous and polarized environment. Ed highlights the complexity of these issues and the pressure leaders feel to adopt simplified stances that may not align with the best interests of their businesses. He also emphasized the importance of acknowledging the nuanced needs of various stakeholders, including employees and customers. Ed also diverted into the topic of impacts of virtual work on social connections, suggesting that even in virtual settings, finding ways to create in-person experiences can foster social cohesion, and how to address problems in the workplace. [30:19] Ed Bautista contrasts one-on-one coaching, highlighting its high fidelity and settled mindset, with challenges faced by leaders in group settings, especially in virtual environments. He stresses the importance of camera use, in virtual meetings, and recommends one-on-one interactions within group contexts for deeper insights. Ed provides advice on group facilitation, emphasizing a leader's intervention when necessary, and the consideration of external facilitators.  Ed advises workplace leaders to offer support, coaching, and clear expectations while cautioning against prematurely assigning leadership responsibilities. [38:44] He talks about the challenges individuals face when transitioning from individual contributor roles to leadership positions. There is a need for a shift in mindset, especially for those who were valued for their technical expertise. He also highlights the emotional difficulty in relinquishing the role of the "smartest person in the room" and adapting to a new way of adding value as a leader. Ed also notes the misconception of overworking as a way to add value and stresses the importance of understanding where one truly adds the greatest value, focusing on high-impact tasks rather than routine activities. [44:44] In discussing organizational culture, Ed Batista highlights the interplay between empathy and accountability. He critiques high-accountability environments lacking empathy, comparing them to boot camps without a sense of safety. Conversely, he warns against overly empathetic cultures with low accountability, likening them to unsustainable daycares. Ed advocates for a balanced approach, encouraging organizations to cultivate cultures that are both high in accountability and high in empathy. Despite acknowledging challenges, he emphasizes the potential benefits of finding equilibrium between these two elements. [44:46] Closing Quote: Remember, each person holds so much power within themselves that needs to be out. Sometimes they just need a little nudge, a little direction, a little support, a little coaching, and the greatest things can happen. - Pete Carroll. Quotable Quotes: “If you're deliberate about trying, then you give yourself a fighting chance.” “It is a matter of understanding the sort of ruthless power law, the Pareto curve in life that says if you're tackling the tasks that allow you the greatest value, and you get them right, everything else on your to-do list is probably irrelevant.” “We can bring people together from across vastly different geographies.” “Empathy is about understanding where they're coming from.” “We wound up creating an environment in which people felt obligated to stay silent or mouth the official position.” “If we feel that sense of interpersonal connection, and have a greater sense of social cohesion, there's greater trust.” “How do we create enough media in person experience to ensure that people feel a sense of social connection?” “As a business, we're not ignoring the social and political context that we're operating in, but we're recognizing that we need to shift our stance somehow.” “The worse the state of the world is, the more leaders benefit from good coaching.” “We gain by virtue of writing down thoughts and feelings about experiences, even if we never reread it.” “Construct writings in a way that's going to be sustainable for you and that's going to work.” “You've got to determine what are the most important questions and answer them for yourselves.” “We need some time, time for solitary reflection, and we also have to come back and engage with other people and integrate that.” Resources Mentioned: The Leadership Podcast | Sponsored by | Rafti Advisors. LLC | Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC | Stanford “Touchy-feely” course | Ed Batista LinkedIn | Ed Batista Website | Ed Batista Instagram | Ed Batista Twitter |  

Jim and Jan discuss modern leadership challenges: information overload and excessive meetings. They stress the need for present, attentive leadership, focusing on situational awareness and problem-solving rather than getting bogged down by irrelevant tasks. Giving proper attention as a leader is key for informed decision-making. They advocate simplicity and problem-solving amid distractions, highlighting the value of experience over education. Practical tips include staying focused, minimizing distractions, and organizing tasks by prioritizing goals. Encouraging creativity, self-reliance, and disciplined time for innovative thinking is crucial. They also note the role of humor in shifting perspectives and the importance of meditation, feedback, and interaction to find solutions as a leader. Key Takeaways: [02:13] Jim and Jan discuss the challenges of excessive stimulation and the ease of tasks like scheduling meetings, which can lead to distractions. There is also a huge impact of technology on information flow, comparing it to friction because of the force of either pulling or pushing. Jim and Jan also mention that it is crucial to stay focused amid distractions, emphasizing the leadership's role in not only directing attention but also providing attention. Leaders should also be good listeners and questioners, highlighting the value of providing focused attention as a display of respect.  [05:36] They identify eight crucial areas for leaders, including emotional intelligence, strategic thinking, and accountability, acknowledging the challenge of balancing work, team development, and personal life, emphasizing the need for prioritization due to time constraints. Jim and Jan suggest adding contextual awareness and using multiple perspectives, referencing the metaphor of looking through different lenses. The importance of understanding various viewpoints and the context in decision-making is also critical in drawing parallels with successful hedge fund managers who interpret information effectively for informed decisions. They also propose to add curiosity to the list of leadership qualities, emphasizing the importance of questioning established practices.  [10:57] Jim and Jan recall a workshop insight about job interviews being about the employer's problem and about an interview that talks about the job instead of speaking about themselves. They stress the importance of staying focused on problem-solving and not getting distracted. Jim and Jan share the need to simplify life and work, instead of making strategic choices complicated and eliminating distractions that don't add value. Most of the time, companies or individuals are more emphasized with how high the education a person has achieved instead of looking deeper into their experiences.  [15:10] They share insights from a skilled craftsman and how observing his precision is fascinating, while talking about the challenge of changing behaviors compared to the tangible results seen in craftsmanship. Jim and Jan present five practical tips for staying focused: eliminate distractions, stop multitasking, practice mindfulness, take short breaks, and organize tasks. There must be a modification to first identify distractions and emphasize self-awareness in managing them with giving the importance of understanding personal distractions, silencing notifications, and recognizing the value of short breaks and organizational strategies. [23:01] Jim and Jan discuss task organization from a leadership perspective, noting their preference for paper systems and recognizing the need for flexibility in how individuals organize their work. They caution against prescribing specific organizational methods for teams, emphasizing the importance of allowing personalization to avoid disempowering team members. They also share insights from an article by Dan Coleman in HBR, highlighting the characteristics of focused leaders who can command their attention, control impulses, and weed out distractions while allowing their minds to roam freely.  [27:28] They share the counterintuitive nature of weeding out distractions to foster broad exploration of ideas, critical for leadership and vision-setting. They mention a powerful question they once heard: "What are you pretending you don't understand?" where it means there is a need for self-reliance and problem definition. It is also better if a group or an individual uses whiteboards and visual tools for brainstorming and problem-solving, for this will urge the importance of creating an environment conducive to free thinking. In addition, they advocate for discipline in carving out time for undisciplined thinking, a seemingly paradoxical concept, or suggesting changing physical contexts to stimulate different perspectives, whether by going to a remote location, using different tools, or trying alternative methods to encourage fresh insights. [28:32] Jim and Jan reflect on the role of humor in leadership, acknowledging the grain of truth embedded in sarcasm and the power of humor to change the tone of a situation. They share the importance of time as a precious resource and encourage listeners to consider how they can make time for a life of service. To highlight the ongoing quest for effectiveness in leadership, it is better to have feedback and interaction as well. [31:28] Closing Quote: Remember, millions saw the apple fall, but Newton was the one who asked why. - Bernard Baruch Quotable Quotes: “We're all a work in progress.” “Your answers may actually come out from the bit of truth embedded in the humor.” “Humor can be a tool to help you think a bit differently, and to change the tone of a situation.” “Focused leaders can command the full range of their own attention.” “Identify what a distraction is for you and just walk through.” “Be focused to eliminate distractions. Stop multitasking, practice mindfulness, take short breaks, and organize your tasks.” “You don't see results immediately in the form of observable behaviors like you can with craftspeople.” “Simplify your life.”  “We get distracted with the complexity of a situation, and it blinds us from the simplicity that should serve as the answer that's going to save our time and effort.” “You need to figure out what that is and stop doing all the other stuff that doesn't move the needle.” “It's about the need the customer has.” “You need to be able to look at things through multiple lenses at the same time or to be able to bounce in between them, because then you miss too much.” “I think if you ask a good question, and then you listen, that's such a great display of respect.  “The way to earn respect is to give it.” “We're overemphasizing education over experience.” “It's not just about directing attention, it's about providing attention.” Resources Mentioned: The Leadership Podcast | Sponsored by | Rafti Advisors. LLC | Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC |  

Lon Stroschein, a bestselling author, spearheads the "normal 40" movement, guiding individuals to reclaim life control. His journey from the corporate world to a more fulfilling existence addresses challenges of midlife change, focusing on financial security and self-image. Lon advocates introspection before career shifts, emphasizing courage in starting anew rather than quitting. He urges exploration of passions, even those seeming destined to fail, as they might hold true passion. Lon's trajectory, from executive coaching certification to discovering his love for coaching, signifies his transition. He highlights external triggers for life changes, financial concerns, marital agreements, and the importance of communication and guidance. Additionally, his own experience stresses the significance of attending to loved ones amidst corporate demands. Key Takeaways: [03:00] Lon shares the biggest fear a man can have before dying. It is when you have everything materially but do not have fulfillment in life. He stated that he started to discover what road he wanted to take when he realized what life he can have to fulfill his passion. You might have things that you are doing, but are not sure if that's the thing you really want to do for a lifetime. Lon also shares that discovering your path comes from your gut but at some point, it won't be easy to do. By doing what you want, you might also need to leave something behind and become someone else and bet on your new career, defining it as a trade because you don't know what amount you will receive after giving something.   [08:56] He is a successful professional, but he shares that he found himself questioning the meaning of his well-established life. Despite a great job and accomplishments, he felt a lingering emptiness during his daily routine. As he drives to his office in his car, he often wonders if this was all there was to his next 15 years. Lon also discusses that he retreated into self-reflection, wrestling with gratitude for his achievements and the yearning for something more because of his urge to passion. The story unfolds as he navigates this internal journey, seeking meaning beyond the checkboxes of success. [12:55] In sharing his experience, Lon highlights two major hurdles in making the tough decision to leave a stable job. First, there's the financial challenge, where individuals have to consider risking the income they've come to depend on, often feeling a responsibility to their family. The second hurdle revolves around the carefully crafted professional image, encompassing business cards, office titles, and social media presence. He also shares that transitioning from a well-defined role to uncertainty means not just risking financial stability, but also challenging the identity built over the years. Making this leap involves trading the security of income and a familiar image for the uncertainties of the unknown. [19:46] He emphasizes on commencing with clarity and engaging in profound conversations with oneself, family, and friends to understand personal identity and potential. He stated that starting something aligned with your envisioned future before quitting is the optimal strategy, although he acknowledges that his journey involved quitting first. Lon shares the trigger for change often surfaces when the Sunday evening pit in your gut becomes a persistent indicator that there might be a better path forward. He advises slowing down, earnestly exploring potential futures, and identifying endeavors worth investing time in. [27:44] Lon shares that he conducts weekly "ramble" sessions on their website, engaging in one-hour conversations with people who sign up. They ask a set series of questions, particularly focusing on the emotions participants are experiencing. Many express feelings of being on autopilot, frustration, control, uncertainty, stress, annoyance, isolation, and a sense of being stuck. He mentions that participants share their desires and life situations, leading the individual to pose a critical question about what their spouse wants for them, not from them. This often uncovers assumptions and prompts a realization that they haven't discussed their future with their spouse.  [29:29] He recalls countless instances when he was asked to do something, responding with a casual "maybe," but deep down had no intention of pursuing it. Lon shares the realization he had with regard to the importance of aligning actions with their passion and mission emphasizing the need to show up for the "maybe" moments, acknowledging that it's a sufficient starting point. By showing up, you can explore whether the idea is worth pursuing or if it needs to be discarded. There should be excitement and enjoyment in embracing the possibilities that a "maybe" holds, they encourage others to give it a chance and experience the thrill of uncertainty. [31:49] Lon shares a powerful personal story in his book. While on the brink of celebrating a significant professional achievement, the sale of their company, a critical family crisis unfolds. His daughter reaches out for help due to suicidal thoughts. This is when Lon realized that it is important to balance work achievements with a family crisis and the need to prioritize familial connections and be attentive to subtle calls for help within one's household, even amid professional pursuits. By this, he aims to inspire readers to reassess priorities and recognize the significance of family well-being amid career pursuits. [43:52] Closing Quote: Remember, be miserable or motivate yourself. Whatever has to be done, it's always your choice. - Wayne Dyer Quotable Quotes: “A certain number of years is not a prerequisite to knowing that this isn't where your future is.” “Go beyond business.” “The hardest professional decisions you make in your life is to leave what you've become great at and take a bet on yourself for what you want to live as.” “This is key- two things, it's not going to solve itself and nobody's going to show up and fix it for me.” “You will have to leave something behind, lay something down and become someone else.” “Take a chance or a bet on yourself in a new path - all of that is a trade.” “Get to where you are by intention, hard work, and by all plans.” “Talk to someone before you feel like you just can't take it anymore, and you have to trade.” “To inspire change, you have to share deeply and intimately of things that you've experienced, endured, lived through, and learned from.” “Find someone who's done it and ask them to talk.” This is the book mentioned in our discussion with Lon Stroschein: Resources Mentioned: The Leadership Podcast | Sponsored by | Rafti Advisors. LLC | Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC | Lon Stroschein LinkedIn | Lon Stroschein Website | Lon Stroschein Twitter |  

Marc Polymeropoulos served for 26 years in the intelligence community in field and leadership assignments. He is an expert in counterterrorism, covert action, and human intelligence collection. Marc discusses the theme of building connections, and emphasizes the significance of internal, team, and personal relationships. He highlights the key to relationship mastery: empathy, active listening, and a shift from self-focus to team care. Marc shares insights into the art of making friends for a living, especially in recruiting agents, navigating the highs and lows of building trust. He introduces leadership principles such as the "glue guy" and "win an Oscar," emphasizing the value of every team member's contribution. Key Takeaways [03:13] Marc Polymeropoulos, a retired CIA pro with 26 years under his belt, specializing in counterterrorism. Marc digs on his recently devoured book,  highlighting its theme of building connections in the agency, with a focus on internal, team, and personal relationships. Marc spills the beans on the key to relationship mastery: empathy, active listening, and a shift from self-focus to team care. Jim throws in Stephen Covey's "The Speed of Trust," questioning the feasibility of quick trust-building in the spy world. Marc keeps it real, emphasizing the delicate balance between speed and the time needed for trust to truly stick. [06:43] Marc spills the beans on the art of making friends for a living, especially in the tricky world of recruiting agents.He shares the highs and lows of building trust, from family introductions to navigating personal connections in the espionage game. Teamwork is a different vibe here—think more competition than camaraderie. Going from a solo operator to managing a team brings a whole new set of challenges, shifting from a "me" to a "we" mindset. Marc keeps it human, spicing up the spy talk with personal stories. It's like your favorite spy thriller, but with a dose of realness and a dash of humanity. [15:17] Marc reveals a gem from his leadership principles – the "glue guy." It's all about recognizing that everyone on the team matters, from the case officers to the IT and finance folks. Marc shares how, over time, he learned that true success comes from valuing every contribution, not just the visible ones. He recounts a story from the world of baseball, emphasizing the importance of the unsung heroes – the backup catcher who never took the field but caught every bullpen. Marc introduces another leadership principle – "win an Oscar."  [18:29] Marc discusses the challenge of leadership – blending authenticity with the need to inspire. Drawing from CIA experiences, he emphasizes the importance of acknowledging tough situations without succumbing to negativity. He also touches on the evolving concept of truth, referencing a Bible verse at the CIA entrance. Marc reflects on their espionage skills, offering insights into navigating the complexities of discerning truth in today's data-driven world. [23:25] Marc has real advice for business. He stresses the CIA's focus on honesty and integrity, not just in missions but also how colleagues treat each other. He shares personal stories about integrity in action and the importance of speaking truth to power. He touches on high-stakes situations, the need for openness in teamwork, and the grounding principles that shape their work. [26:50] Marc sheds light on a side of high-stakes worlds rarely discussed—the human element. He discusses the importance of wellness and resiliency, drawing parallels between his experiences and those in military expeditions. Marc emphasizes the need for patience in careers, highlighting the struggle with issues like alcoholism and divorce. He introduces the concept of a "combat leadership chassis," urging individuals to focus on what they can control for better mental health. [28:03] Marc shares insights on the transition from hands-on leadership to strategic roles. He highlights the challenges of moving from tactical to executive positions, emphasizing the shift from day-to-day details to broader strategic decisions. Marc reflects on the importance of addressing budget presentations, resource meetings, and intelligence priorities in his senior executive role. [31:08] Marc shares a powerful story of overcoming adversity during a counterterrorism operation. He reflects on the loss of colleagues and his decision to return to Afghanistan to avenge their deaths. Marc emphasizes the importance of honoring those who sacrificed their lives in the line of duty. [35:02] Closing quote: And remember, written in Chinese, the word 'crisis' is composed of two characters. One represents danger and the other represents opportunity.  — John F. Kennedy Quotable Quotes "Relationships are everything. I was really good at the end, maybe not so great along the way, but here are the things I learned. What do relationships mean? Well, it means you have to have empathy. You have to have the ability to listen." "Bad news is not like fine wine. It doesn't get better over time." "It's not failing. It's failing and then learning from it. Failure is unacceptable. Failing is okay. That's adversity. That's how you grow and that's how you learn." "That makes me a hell of a recruiter because, again, it's that personal side. But guess what? My two-year or three-year tour is up, and you need to institutionalize that arrangement. So, again, this agent is not spying for me, Marc Polymeropoulos. He's spying for the CIA, for the US. Government. So I have to turn this person over to another officer." "First line managers struggle so much at CIA because all of a sudden it's like, hey, it's not about you. No more cable traffics. Marc Polymeropoulos saved the world. It's more of what did the unit do?" "Everybody matters. It's that power of contribution, and it's that everybody matters. And again, going back to the beginnings of my career, where it's harder to get into the CIA than it is to get into Harvard, it costs a quarter million dollars for the US. Government to train me into this kind of lethal machine." "It means you're on display all the time. You never have a day off as a leader. And I have to be careful with this because you also have to kind of caveat that with you have to be authentic." "But building trust does take kind of repeated instances of doing the right thing. The opposite of that is you can also lose it right away." "Do the right know, just be honest, be ethical, have integrity, and that, in essence, will build trust. And so that, to me, were kind of words that I live by." "You got to take care of yourself, your body, follow the path of these elite athletes who have been doing this for a long time." "Revenge is something that we're not supposed to talk about or use as any kind of motivation for kinetic activities." Here are the books mentioned in this episode Resources Mentioned The Leadership Podcast | Sponsored by | Rafti Advisors. LLC | Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC | Marc Polymeropoulos Twitter | Marc Polymeropoulos LinkedIn | Marc Polymeropoulos Website |  

Harris III, an illusionist and storyteller, spent much of his life traveling the world performing his unique brand of magic and storytelling for more than two million people on five continents. His book, "The Wonder Switch: The Difference Between Limiting Your Life and Living Your Dream," discusses rediscovering wonder and transforming your life. He highlights the concept of "starting with wow" and the intersection of wonder, and storytelling as crucial roles to effective leadership, stressing the need to reconnect with our initial sense of wonder to find purpose and beat burnout. He advocates for curiosity in leadership, emphasizing the difference between "wow people" who focus on vision and "how people" who analyze problems, while this would also increase creativity to people. He promotes a shift in leadership perception, encouraging individuals to take charge of their stories and challenge the status quo, which he termed as WoW (Wonder-oriented Worldview) level leadership. Harris III asserts that worry is a misuse of imagination, and wonder is the antidote to apathy. Key Takeaways: [2:48] Harris III points out that magic often doesn't receive the recognition it deserves as an art form, particularly in the realm of social media. With the limitations imposed by COVID-19, magicians and illusionists had to adapt to continue making a living. Some turned to revealing the behind-the-scenes of magic online, transforming it into humor or pranks. Additionally, Harris III mentions Simon Sinek's book, 'Start with Why,' which emphasizes that effective leaders inspire action in others rather than simply leading them.  [4:42] He discusses the "Start with Wow" book, highlighting its perspective that leadership is intertwined with communication, both with others and oneself. The book emphasizes the significance of revisiting the purpose behind your actions, bringing you back to a grounded state. It underscores that wonder is the pathway to achieving something remarkable. The book suggests that unexpected opportunities may arise when you least anticipate them, and staying vigilant is crucial. In times of losing focus or forgetting your initial motivation, the advice is to return to the mindset of wonder, symbolized by "wow." [10:30] Harris III details how curiosity is essentially a wonder in action, describing it as a genuine physiological state that sparks interest in our surroundings. The connection between wonder and storytelling is highlighted, where wonder inspires belief in the potential of new narratives, and storytelling influences behavior. Emphasizing that effective leadership begins with self-leadership, he stresses the importance of fostering curiosity without facing ridicule. Leaders are encouraged to understand that curiosity doesn't mandate blind belief, and it's acceptable to question things even without personal observation. [18:16] He talks about two kinds of negative people: the "wow" people, who are usually pessimistic, and the "how" people, who try to handle their own fears. In meetings as an example, they tend to divide the two, usually choosing how people. But, to come up with a great end, the two must collide - wow playing the role of vision while how plays the role of mission. Harris III relates it to a Ping pong game, where wow will do the action of wonder and how ill do the action of executing.  [25:51] Harris III shares the significance of collective creativity within a group. Emphasizing that team members utilizing their creative thinking can result in superior outcomes. He also delves into the notion that a leader's most valuable asset is their imagination, aligning it with the concept of storytelling. Although everyone is inherently born with a natural inclination toward wonder, there is a tendency to lean towards a how mindset. Furthermore, creativity is not an exclusive trait but a fundamental quality inherent in all individuals, as imagination is an ever-present and open aspect of our nature. He draws a distinction between anxiety as a product of imagination and worry and irrational fear as misapplication of imagination. [29:41] Harris III offers his perspective on leadership, focusing primarily on self-leadership, asserting that everyone has the capacity to lead themselves and others. This involves taking charge of your actions and not leaving things to fate, actively pursuing your goals instead of waiting for circumstances to dictate your path. Harris III distinguishes between leaders and managers, noting that leaders are accountable for the future, whereas managers handle present responsibilities. He defines great leadership as excelling in self-leadership, encapsulated in what he terms "WoW level leadership," comprising self-leadership, team leadership, and marketplace leadership. [43:05] Harris III shares his 30-second thoughts if given the chance to speak in front of a crowd: Roald Dahl famously said that those who don't believe in magic will never find it. And that's because we think that seeing is believing. And if seeing is believing is true, that means that we will be able to believe once we see. But seeing is not believing. Believing is seeing. Because what we believe has the power to change what we see. Wonder is the state in which we have permission to believe. And if we can live wide awake to a state of wonder, we can always start with WoW. And if we start with WoW in leading ourselves and the way we lead others, and the way we lead in the marketplace at large, we can create a better future both for ourselves, for others and the world. Because great leadership, wow level leadership, always starts with wow.  [49:45] Closing Quote: Remember, he who can no longer pause to wonder and stand wrapped in awe is as good as dead. His eyes are closed. - Albert Einstein Quotable Quotes: “Wisdom and wonder are intertwined” “Leaders believe and invited us to step up in leadership” “The quickest way to find our way back to it is to start with wow. Understand that that wow gives birth to your why, and it can help you pave the way.” “You were meant for more. So lean in, pay a little bit closer attention” “It's the wow moment that whispers to us and says, there's more going on here than meets the eye.” “Wipe the fog from your glasses so that you can see a little bit more clearly because something is trying to wake you up to a new reality.” “Understand that curiosity is simply wondered in action.” “Great leadership in the marketplace is the result of leading a team, that all starts with leading yourself.” “Only in a state of wonder where our brain loosens its grip on those stories and opens us up to the possibility of what could be.” “Curiosity is essential, not just in leadership, but in every form of coaching. When we are cynical instead of curious, when we are worried instead of in wonder, what ends up happening is we push off the stories we're being invited into.” “Cynicism is the fear posing as confidence. What you see is not always what you get.” “Human beings are not very good at determining what is real or true based on what our senses perceive. Our senses are so easily fooled, and even our emotions can easily lead us astray.” “Believing isn't about seeing; it's navigating reality through the lens of our own stories.” “When we choose to believe something, it's what we choose to believe, which is a narrative that changes the story.” This is the book mentioned in our discussion with Harris III: Resources Mentioned: The Leadership Podcast | Sponsored by | Rafti Advisors. LLC | Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC | Harris III LinkedIn | Harris III Website | Harris III Twitter | Harris III Instagram |

Jim and Jan talk about how difficult it is to maintain focus in a world that moves quickly. They state that a lack of time and resources is causing people to feel overburdened, busy, and frustrated. The paradox of choice, which holds that having too many options causes indecision and dissatisfaction with decisions made, as well as the addiction to busyness, and the difficulty of effectively managing time. Burnout and frustration can also result from being overly busy and realizing that you are not making any progress. They also stress how crucial it is to prioritize, simplify, and base decisions on what offers the best value for your time, money, and energy. Limiting the number of meetings per day and establishing boundaries with calendars are two more doable solutions to deal with these problems. Jim and Jan also talk about the importance of understanding the value of crisis leadership, that being in a constant state of crisis is not productive. They address the idea of availability. They share the importance of staying focused and finding fulfillment in one's career, and emphasizing the need for clear values and goals to maintain focus.  https://bit.ly/TLP—388 Key Takeaways:  [1:21] Jim and Jan talk about the reality of today’s working environment, where people are spending their life too much on their tasks until it leads them to frustrations. They also added that a lot of people are workaholics and keep themselves busy to the point of losing focus on their goals. People, especially young professionals, might be losing track as they are trying to be a jack of all trades. They also added that it is calmer to respond rather than reacting to anything, and learning not to say ‘yes’ to everything. [4:59] They share about the nature of multitasking, in which you can’t do more than one task at the same time, but it is more like bouncing from one to another. Jim and Jan also share the pillars of self-reliant leadership: Lead self, Lead others, and Lead the organization. Further, they also discuss the importance of making a decision. They explain that the more choices you have, the more you can’t come up with a very good decision. By having too many options, you will never find your true happiness regardless of what you chose because you will always wonder what would be the scenario if you chose the other option.  [11:32] Jim and Jan share that when aiming the goal of maintaining focus, you have to include discipline. It is imperative to look at your calendar and organize what you need to do- from the least to the most priority. Fully loading your schedule will lead you to frustrations and the missed opportunity of recharging yourself. The advantage of limiting your schedule will also give you time to prepare and follow up the things you have to do.  [15:07] They mention the way people should respond to things and other people. They also share the seven villains of chaos: Con - he is the leader of the chaos that helped you to get where you are but end up not helping you anymore. Jack of all trades - the one who wants to do everything and do multitasking. Gorilla - the strong one but makes a mess in everything. Miss opportunity- is the distraction and gets you far away from what is important. Siphon - he is the pain in the neck. The jumbler- is someone that throws a bunch of crap against a wall and hopes it sticks. And the overload - is someone that masks everything they do with data, but it paralyzes you into a state of analysis paralysis.  [24:30] Jim and Jan talk about being content and fulfilled at the same time. You have to remain focused and set aside the things that do not have value or your least priorities. They also mention that it is hard to maintain focus if you are not aware of what you really want, and you don’t know what you value. It is imperative to know your goals before taking the path.  [29:46] Closing Quote: At the end of the day, you can't control the results; you can only control your effort level and your focus Quotable Quotes: “Saying yes to everything, never saying no, will let your time control you”  “You have to control your reaction and respond to things rather” “You are not paid to be busy” “The more options you have, the harder it is to decide and to decide well.” “When we talk about focus, it is about is prioritizing”  “The more options you have, the less happy you will be no matter what you decide on, because you're always going to wonder if you made the right decision” “Good enough is the best. The best isn't the best.” “It's hard to be focused if you don't know what you value, and you don't know what you want.” This is the book mentioned in this discussion: Resources Mentioned: The Leadership Podcast | Sponsored by | Rafti Advisors. LLC | Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC |

Larry Kaufman is the author of “The Networking Connecting Giving (NCG) Factor: A Formula for Building Life-Changing Relationships from College to Retirement.” He is a connector, giver, and rainmaker who lives his life to help others succeed. He is also a senior-level Sales & Operations Leader and has been a globally-published speaker and trainer on LinkedIn for more than a decade. Larry shares his insights about the nature of networking, which is to know people rather than purely focusing on business. He highlights the significance of approaching interactions with a genuine curiosity about others and actively seeking ways to offer assistance. Additionally, Larry shares his perspective on networking events, noting their continued relevance as long as there is a clear goal or purpose for attendance. Key Takeaways: [03:40] Larry shares his personal views on what networking should look like. It should be focused more on getting to know more and sharing stories with people. In that way, you are also selling what you are capable of doing and what you have, but not focusing solely on exchanging cards to get the other people’s attention. He emphasizes that networking is more about building relationships and not purely marketing.  [06:51] He shares some tips on how to build rapport with other people such as asking personal questions, just as long as they are comfortable enough to share. You can also ask them things that are not usual to business terms, like what do they value or want, or something related to their outside business world. He also reiterated that by asking them personal questions, you are able to get them out from what they really feel because we don’t have a solid idea on what they are going through. [13:02] Larry advises young professionals on how they should conquer their fears in a networking industry, on what they can give, or how they should do it effectively. Young professionals do not have to do it alone, so they should not be afraid to ask for help, especially at the onset of their career. In regard to asking for help, Larry also added that it should not only be done at the start of their career but should be up until retirement which he also included it in his book. [20:07] He mentions a practical strategy for beginners in networking, which is that talking to one person in a month is not a bad start. He also reiterated that this also works at any level of one’s career. They can do this by checking people that surround them and have to add one person to their network at a time until you manage to increase it little by little. Larry also mentions that for today’s generation, there are a lot of tools that can be used to communicate with other people such as zooms, FaceTime, and any other social media platforms.  [29:29] Larry also shares how to be indispensable and the importance of this to a company. Being indispensable can be by showing other people that you are a shoulder they can lean on. It also means you are there to support them all the way and by getting to know them, you can easily understand their needs and can provide them what you can give.  [39:20] Closing Quote: Remember, “No one has ever become poor by giving”.- Anne Frank  Quotable Quotes: “ If you lead with yourself, you will live with yourself.” “Don't call me to fix your tire, but I can call someone to fix your tire. It may not stay on, but I would respond.” “The more I learn about people personally and professionally, I find ways to be helpful.” “People must not be too quick to talk about themselves, but nothing to do with the other person,” “Giving comes back in many ways, it may be never from that person, but it comes back in other ways.” “You don't have to be a connector and a giver alone, you can ask” “You can be a mentor, you can volunteer your time to a charity, you don’t have to play the world’s perceptions” “Meeting one new person that we could add to our network is already powerful” This is the book mentioned in our discussion with Larry: Resources Mentioned: The Leadership Podcast | Sponsored by | Rafti Advisors. LLC | Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC | Larry Kaufman LinkedIn | Larry Kaufman Website | Larry Kaufman Twitter |

Bill Snow, Author of “Mergers and Acquisitions for Dummies.” shares the business valuations and the importance of understanding EBITDA. He also talks about the challenges and misconceptions of making acquisitions. Lack of planning, communication, and dishonesty can derail transactions in terms of negotiations and finance. He also counsels entrepreneurs to monitor cash flow statements while managing their companies. Regarding acquisitions, Bill advises meticulous preparation and deciding before placing a bid on a company whether an acquisition is a need or a nice-to-have. Key Takeaways: [3:13] Bill talks about the nature of mergers and acquisitions, the price terms and timing, and the payment structure such as the EBITDA. He also explains its usage and how it doesn’t work with other circumstances. Bill discusses that EBITDA works different from company to another.  [10:47] He shares the three segments of mergers and acquisitions which are the search, negotiate, and finance. As he explains, finance is the easiest among the three, since you can just borrow or get other investors to suffice your needs. The second one is negotiating, which he defines as the most interesting part if only one is familiar with his/ her actions. The last one is search, which enacts you to look for a company that will buy. He added that one thing to differentiate you among other business people is creating a thesis or proposals to discover what’s in it for your business to spark.  [15: 08] Bill shares how to make contact and build relationships. He also speaks about how to use deliberate and intentional approach in establishing peer-to-peer relationships. This explains the expectation one should be thinking of when entering this kind of business, where you will be negotiating with five people, but only one will win the deal.  [18:07] He explains the need for an accountant to discover the preferred structure for the seller to effectively communicate to the buyer and the importance of disclosure of problems to frame discussions to avoid resulting in a much bigger problem. Bill also explains how important it is to be honest with even the smallest problem because it might result in a bigger problem if not solved earlier.  [21:44] Bill shares how important math is when it comes to leadership, the same with how business and math is interconnected as well. He also emphasizes the need to be confident in terms of their businesses because they have learned about it in the first place. In addition, it is also recommended to study other companies with the same company as yours for you to be able to understand and create a better strategy. He also added how important it is to work with a financial advisor instead of going with the flow.  [26:27] He explains the importance and concept of timeliness and due diligence in integrating acquired business. Bill also shares how imperative it is to understand your strength and weakness when doing transactions to determine where you are good at for you to improve what you are lacking and enhance where you are better at doing.  [38:32] Closing Quote: Remember, get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please. -Mark Twain Quotable Quotes: “The way a business is valued from a buyer's perspective is quite different from how people run their businesses.” “Put together your plans, get very granular to make acquisitions.” “Don't ask. Offer something. Try to figure out what you can offer.” “A small issue that may not be a big deal for most people, if hidden, may result in a bigger problem.” “Fix what you can and work with a financial advisor instead of finger up in the air.” “The key thing with investment bankers advisors is their ability to negotiate.” “The most important things are the ability to negotiate and the ability to get a transaction done.” “When you have something in due diligence, get it done in a timely fashion. It will take a couple of years before a company finally came back enough, and it traded.” “You're going to have some rough waves, and some people may not work well with you, you have to get rid of them, or they'll leave. But you'll be surprised, other people who are kind of off in a corner, forgotten, turn out to be rock stars” This is the book mentioned in our discussion with Bill Snow: Resources Mentioned: The Leadership Podcast | Sponsored by | Rafti Advisors. LLC | Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC | Bill Snow LinkedIn | Bill Snow Website | Bill Snow Twitter |

Selena Rezvani, a renowned speaker on self-advocacy and leadership and the author of the Wall Street Journal best-selling book, "Quick Confidence: Be Authentic, Boost Connections, and Make Bold Bets on Yourself." She has been quoted, interviewed, and profiled by CareerBuilder, The Wall Street Journal, Oprah.com, The LA Times, Marie Claire, NBC television, and ABC television. Selena talks about how important it is to speak up for oneself at work. Selena also discusses effective strategies for leaders to encourage open communication and self-expression within their teams, emphasizing the significance of creating an inclusive work environment and shared insights on addressing situations where team members are interrupted or talked over. Selena stresses that instead of viewing power as bravado, we should reinterpret it as confidence grounded in a learning mindset.   Key Takeaways: [3:42] Selena discussed the value of speaking up at work, but she also mentioned that some leaders feel free to express their opinions in front of their subordinates. Selena additionally speaks about her two points of view when someone tries to voice a concern: first, have you earned the right to ask, and second, some people ask for what they want, and some people take what is given to them. [4:41] She shares the need to foster more cultures that are focused on self-advocacy, where managers and other leaders allow employees some leeway to make decisions and approach some of their work or work arrangements more like cafeteria style, where they can take what appeals to them and have more voice and choice over what they do. But if managers or leaders are not comfortable with those requests, Selena said it’s impossible to work it out.  [13:27] Selena also concurs with one of Dr. Pfeffer’s old sayings that "power is about 20% conferred and 80% taken," which means that power is typically more openly claimed than bestowed upon a single, exceptional person. She stated that it is something that should be remembered. Selena also shares how she frequently participates in some of her own advocacy work and encourages people to avoid waiting to be invited, instead, notice and claim it.  [18:03] She also shares the tactics for leaders to support others in speaking up for themselves and giving others a chance to be heard, and how to step in when someone is being talked over or interrupted. Selena also brings up the common topic that people discuss, which is being too critical of oneself. She also talks about how giving yourself grace is the cherry on top, and how it's crucial to acknowledge your feelings and give yourself a break in order to take care of yourself.  [21:30] Selena talks about how to be heard in meetings. She says you have to speak up more, but not so loudly that you have to scream for them to hear you. Another is rearranging your chair to draw people's attention and make a good impression. Another tactic is to unintentionally read your resume aloud; it's akin to telling them what you accomplished and what more you're capable of.  [25:50] She mentions the American culture of silence, which states that it takes four seconds for the person on the other side of you to become uneasy, insecure, or rejected. She stresses how crucial it is to understand that occasionally, silence can be used against us. Selena also talks about making a plan for how to voice your opinions in meetings so that you don't get silenced, for this will help you become more confident and share your knowledge.  [34:15] Selena also shares finding one's life's center of balance and control, as well as the value of trying new things and thinking outside the box. She says that positive things come from letting go. Furthermore, ruminating is a bad habit to get into before bed. Perhaps it's even letting go in that sense where someone is going to let go of that problem or thought. Good things come from letting go a little and letting serendipity and other people's decisions occasionally. Because control is a funny thing and our starting points can differ greatly. [40:22] Closing Quote: Remember, the most beautiful thing you can wear is confidence. - Blake Lively Quotable Quotes: “The more senior you are, the more likely you are to interrupt. “I may not be the best at this, but I'm not the worst at it, either. It's not that I'm never going to get it. It's that I haven't cracked it yet.” “So much power, the ability to use our voice, is up for grabs. Notice it, claim it, don't wait to be invited.” “Leaders can stoke confidence in others by ensuring their voices are heard and respected.” “Techniques include putting the spotlight back on someone who was interrupted, asking for their thoughts, and making small gestures of support.” “Use humor, lightening up, and using positive self-talk as ways to improve confidence.” “Respect one's resume by relating experiences to current projects or challenges.” “I think the other thing is we need to create more self advocacy oriented cultures where managers and leaders are given some latitude for people to have choices and approach some of their work or their work arrangements a little bit more like cafeteria style, where they can take what's appealing to them, where they have more say in voice and choice in what they do.” “Before going into a room, create a plan” “Confidence is Power.” This is the book mentioned in our discussion with Selena Rezvani: Resources Mentioned: The Leadership Podcast | Sponsored by | Rafti Advisors. LLC | Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC | Selena Rezvani LinkedIn | Selena Rezvani Website | Selena Rezvani Twitter | Selena Rezvani Instagram | Selena Rezvani Facebook |

Mark Mellett, Founder and Director of Green Compass, with a distinguished 48-year military career, served as Chief of the Navy and Ireland's 31st Chief of Defense. He's a strategic expert, recognized for leadership during the COVID-19 pandemic. Mark chairs the Maritime Area Regulatory Authority, leads Sage Advocacy, and is a Lifetime Fellow Council Chair at The Irish Management Institute. His research focuses on innovation, climate change, and social issues like ageism and gender equality. Notably, under his command, the Irish flag ship's crew ranked among Ireland's top 50 workplaces. Mark brings a wealth of experience and a commitment to positive change. Mark discusses modern leadership, highlighting the importance of technology, balancing doctrine with adaptability, and fostering trust through open communication. Mark addresses the challenges of the strategic landscape, emphasizing diverse teams and collaboration across sectors. As chair of Sage Advocacy, he advocates for gender balance, challenges traditional retirement norms, and stresses the wisdom of older workers. Transitioning to Green Compass, Mark underscores the urgency of addressing climate change, emphasizing the value of biodiversity.      Key Takeaways: [01:28] Mark Mellett, founder of Green Compass and a seasoned military leader. Mark shares his diverse roles, from chairing the Maritime Area Regulatory Authority to leading Sage Advocacy.  [04:10] Mark discusses modern leadership in 2023. He emphasizes subsidiarity and mission command for empowering young leaders. Mark talks about the crucial role of technology in decision-making and urges leaders to balance adherence to doctrine with adaptability. Mark also touches on building trust by sharing responsibility for mistakes and embracing a "black box thinking" culture of open communication.  [08:56] Mark explores the challenges of the modern strategic landscape. He emphasizes the impact of information flows and technology while underlining the necessity of diverse teams. Mark discusses the complexities of managing diverse opinions and bureaucratic structures, advocating for collaboration and coalition-building. He highlights the integration of government, civil society, and the market for effective progress. Mark also talks about the importance of focusing on communication, stressing the importance of investing time in explanation for better understanding and alignment. [14:30] Mark talks about the evolving definition of "like-minded" leaders in a world of diverse opinions. He emphasizes the importance of finding common ground through dialogue and discussion, even amidst differences. Drawing from his experience in Afghanistan, Mark shares a story of breaking down silos to achieve a common goal—successful elections. Mark also shares a powerful Irish saying, "niat Kakur lekela," which means "There is no strength without you.”. [16:08] As the chair of Sage Advocacy,  Mark discusses his advocacy for the rights of older people in Ireland. He emphasizes the strategic risk of gender imbalance and highlights the correlation between the gender gap and global peace. Mark addresses challenges such as aging populations and dementia. He challenges the traditional retirement model, stressing the wisdom older workers bring to the workforce.  [25:20] Mark discusses Green Compass, his response to the pressing issue of climate change. He reflects on his childhood in Ireland and the drastic environmental changes he has witnessed. Emphasizing biodiversity's critical role, Mark stresses the need to assign value to it for preservation. He delves into the anthropocene, highlighting the tangible impacts, such as recent climate-related disasters claiming thousands of lives. He also touches on population forecasts and the concerning shift from a green to a gray world. Despite the challenges, Mark emphasizes the leadership responsibility to address and mitigate these issues. [33:17] Mark shares a funny anecdote from his early days as a young officer, emphasizing the importance of clear communication. The story illustrates the need for leaders to articulate expectations clearly to avoid unexpected outcomes. Mark reflects on leadership responsibilities and the value of admitting mistakes as opportunities for learning and discovery. [37:13] Closing quote: Remember, Unity is strength when there is teamwork and collaboration, wonderful things can be achieved. – Mattie Stepanek   Quotable Quotes: “And one further rule besides subsidiarity is nobody should feel uncomfortable in the workplace.”   “The more diversity you have in your team, no matter what level, the more capacity you have to deal with complexity.”   “But if you maintain a network and a framework and able to build that coalition of like-minded leaders, you may well find a solution.”   “If you don't have economic security, you don't have the fuel in the tank to keep on going.”   “Sometimes, people who assist in decision-making, will actually do so with a vested interest that sometimes is about disenfranchising older people.”   “Sustainability is something you should be willing to punish yourself for if you don't uphold.”   “Who owns biodiversity? You do. I do. We do. But when we don't put value on it, it's wasted, it's damaged, it actually becomes extinct.”   “In leadership, do not step back, do everything possible to nudge and push and to cajole, to build that coalition of like-minded leaders who might not entirely agree on everything, to actually make those decisions required.”   This is the book mentioned in our discussion with Mark:   Resources Mentioned: The Leadership Podcast | Sponsored by | Rafti Advisors. LLC | Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC | Mark Mellett LinkedIn | Mark Mellett Website | Mark Mellett Twitter | 

Susan Goldin-Meadow, a professor at the University of Chicago and author of "Thinking with Your Hands: The Surprising Science Behind How Gestures Shape Our Thoughts," has studied gestures' role in communication for 47 years. She points out how gestures are vital for conveying information and understanding. Susan discusses how leaders can use gestures to gauge message comprehension when explaining tasks or concepts. She suggests that asking others to explain while observing their gestures provides insights into their comprehension. Susan explores various gestures and their meanings in business and academics. She also touches on the differences between sign and spoken language, gesture use in video communication, and cultural differences in gesture interpretation.      Key Takeaways [03:17] Susan Goldin-Meadow, a professor at the University of Chicago and author of "Thinking with Your Hands: The Surprising Science Behind How Gestures Shape Our Thoughts." explores the fascinating role of gestures in communication. Susan talks about a research that shows that even blind individuals use gestures when they speak, revealing the inherent connection between language and gestures. Susan discusses the power of silent gestures in bridging language barriers when communicating in foreign countries. [08:13] Susan reveals how gestures can uncover the truth, even when words don't match. She advises leaders to be cautious about their gestures during sensitive conversations. She explains how to assess understanding, asking others to explain in their own words, watching for alignment between speech and gestures, which can indicate comprehension.  [15:49] Susan explores how gestures are a key part of learning, even in unexpected contexts like explaining math problems. Children often gesture when asked to explain, revealing hidden thoughts. Susan also discusses individual differences in gesturing and the surprising case of a young woman born without arms who still felt like she was gesturing, highlighting the intrinsic nature of gestures in communication. [19:06] Jan asked about how unique gestures and hand signals are used in professional settings, like the military. Susan explains that professionals in various fields often develop specific gestures to convey meanings within their communities. She also mentions the role of engagement and enthusiasm in using gestures to complement speech. Additionally, Susan talks about the importance of physical touch and nonverbal signals in the workplace. [24:40] Susan explores the power of multimodal learning, where utilizing multiple ways of learning and communicating can be highly effective. She discusses how incorporating gestures and tactile elements can enhance comprehension and retention, making us better communicators and learners. Susan emphasizes that gesture goes beyond just being part of multimodal learning; it exploits it, providing a unique way to convey information. [27:02] Susan discusses the importance of hands-on training, effective communication, and gestures in the modern workplace. She explores how incorporating gestures and movements into training can enhance learning and improve communication. She also touches on the challenges of remote communication and making gestures visible on online platforms. Susan shares insights into the cultural significance of gestures and why it's essential to be mindful of different meanings across regions. [31:51] Jim shared insights from a previous guest, Jim Thompson, who discussed the impact of adding gestures when acknowledging mistakes in youth sports. Susan also touches on the significance of handshakes in sealing agreements and the universality of such gestures in different cultures. Susan hints at her ongoing research in brain imaging and the curiosity to understand the neural processes underlying gestures in communication. Susan challenges listeners to overcome any hesitation and recognize the value of gestures in conveying and understanding messages.  She also encourages everyone to be more aware of how their gestures influence others and to consciously observe the gestures of those they interact with.  [36:01] Closing quote: And remember, to communicate through Silence is a link between the thoughts of man. — Marcel Marceau    Quotable Quotes "Language on its own may not be capable of expressing the full range of human thought."   "Talking and gesturing are one phenomenon. They're very integrated, and you don't need to be taught."   "What we're doing with our hands is we're putting ideas out in space."   "We can put our ideas out there, literally out there, and it's in sync with our words."   "Gestures seem to have a special hold on the truth."   "Often the truth comes out in their hands."   "Be careful of your gestures if you really don't want something to be said... people read them. They don't even know they're reading them, but they do hear them."   "It is very clear they're not getting it when your gestures and your speech aren't saying the same thing."   "When you ask people to explain things, they tend to gesture quite a lot."   "If we can get someone to learn something by having them operate multiple modalities, perhaps we can be better communicators."   "There's lots of evidence that multimodal communication or multimodal learning is better than unimodal."   "What gesture is doing here is exploiting multimodal."   "Remembering, retaining, and generalizing to a new context, you're better off having done the gesture than the actions on the objects."   "I'm into face-to-face communication. It's what I love, actually. And for teaching as well, I think it's important."   "I like to make sure the gestures are visible."   "I think the biggest challenge is using your hands well and not being afraid to."   "Understanding how your gestures are having an impact on other people and trying to read other people's gestures could be helpful."   Here are the books mentioned in this episode     Resources Mentioned The Leadership Podcast | Sponsored by | Rafti Advisors. LLC | Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC | Susan Goldin Meadow LinkedIn Susan Goldin Meadow Website |  

Talia Fox is the CEO of KUSI Global, Inc. A leadership strategist and a legacy builder, she has transformed thousands of executives over the last two decades in every sector, including major corporations in health, higher education, technology, and government. Talia shares her unique approach to leadership and her upcoming book, "The Power of Conscious Connection: 4 Habits to Transform How You Live and Lead." Talia's book focuses on four habits: Listen, Observe, Value, and Engage. She stresses the importance of happiness in achieving success and introduces key leadership skills: emotional intelligence, systems thinking, and cultural competence. Talia also discusses dealing with diverse values on a team, the significance of aligning values in both concept and behavior, and the value of practicing restraint for gaining wisdom.      Key Takeaways [02:22] Talia Fox, CEO of KUSI Global, Inc., is a leadership strategist with a unique mission: making people happy and improving lives. She emphasizes that personal happiness is the key to achieving remarkable results in business and leadership.  [03:58] Talia shares her unique approach to leadership. She introduces the KUSI competency model, comprising Knowledge, Understanding, Strategy, and Implementation. Talia identifies three game-changing skills for leaders: Emotional intelligence, Systems thinking, Cultural competence. Talia explores how these competencies relate to disciplined leadership with an emphasis on adaptability.  [11:21] Talia  discusses the importance of emotional intelligence, systems thinking, and cultural competence in leadership. These competencies work together to navigate complex situations and promote adaptability. Talia introduces Conscious Equity, emphasizing its holistic approach to leadership development. Addressing resistance, she suggests embracing it as an opportunity for growth and unity by focusing on the heart of the matter: people.  [19:10] Talia introduces her upcoming book, "The Power of Conscious Connection: 4 Habits to Transform How You Live and Lead," released on October 24, 2023. She discusses the book's four essential habits: Listen, Observe, Value, and Engage. These habits encourage individuals to slow down, gain self-awareness, and connect with their inner wisdom. Talia explains how each habit serves a specific purpose, such as emotional intelligence, systems thinking, and cultural competence. The book emphasizes customization and aligning behavior with personal values, creating a positive impact in one's life and the world. [22:35] Jim and Jan ask Talia to talk about understanding your values, assumptions, beliefs, and expectations (VABE) when communicating with others. Talia discusses an exercise called "Identity Therapy" where you choose a role model and think about how they would tackle your challenges. This helps you explore your values and recognize any habits that might be hindering your progress. Talia emphasizes that values can change as you grow, and it's essential to align them with your goals and make deliberate choices that reflect those values in your life. [25:18] Talia shares a powerful childhood experience that set her on a path to the work she does today. At eight years old, she helped her illiterate father navigate contracts. A key moment was when she confronted a restaurant hostess, realizing that her actions should lead to a better outcome for everyone. This early experience inspired her to pursue leadership development as a way to foster connection and improve people's work experiences. [28:54] Talia's Love System - Listen, Observe, Value, Engage - is a foundation for success. Barriers to its effectiveness include ego, judgment, and trying to change others. Focus on practicing these skills without ego and judgment. Embrace the basics of human interaction: listening, understanding systems, aligning with values, and engaging effectively. [34:07] Talia shares insights into dealing with diverse values on a team. Understanding that values may be shared in concept but not in behavior is crucial. Aligning with values requires a shared mental model of what those values look like in action. Talia shares the significance of practicing restraint and how it can lead to greater wisdom. Talia's book, "The Power of Conscious Connection: Four Habits to Transform How You Live and Lead," is highly recommended. [43:14] Closing quote: I know of no more encouraging fact than the unquestionable ability of man to elevate his life by conscious endeavor. — Henry David Thoreau   Quotable Quotes "Make the people happy and better and listen to them without bias."   "Emotional intelligence is a game changer."   "Systems thinking is the capacity to look at things and analyze them, not based on our bias and our experiences, but really the feedback loops of what is in the moment and what we're seeing that's changing as time goes on."   "Cultural competence is the person who is willing to know. 'I don't know about everyone in this room, and I am willing to show up and be present in the moment.'"   "It's one of those things where you're engaging in a very present way and allowing yourself to be open to new ideas and new approaches."   "And so with resistance, we turn that resistance into an opportunity to connect and to identify key questions or the one thing that needs to be addressed."   "Leadership is about people, and the only thing that we're working on is being better at interacting and managing, leading, inspiring, moving people forward."   "The Power of Conscious Connection is about being conscious about who you are in the world and connected to your power to make a difference."   "Listening is an opportunity for us to slow down, and it is a portal to wisdom."   "Values, Assumptions, Beliefs and Expectations. When you're listening and observing, pay attention to other people's values, assumptions, beliefs, expectations before you engage."   "There's something tricky about values. You've got to figure out what's yours, what's other people's values. There may be some things that you value that are just bad habits that are holding you back."   "Conscious equity is not a license to start looking at the world and identifying all of the lack of listening, observing, alignment with values, or poor engagement going on. We start with modeling that experience and being patient, kind, and open for the journey that others are on."   "Observation is associated with systems thinking. Now, you're not just observing by way of looking, but I think that's good too, with your senses."   "Values, that's an opportunity for you to pause for a moment and say, this is where you customize life."   "It matters less what you do, how you do it. It matters more why you do it."   "You can share what you do, but you don't want to judge or even try to begin to get... judgment can really cloud all of these skills."   "The emotional intelligence, systems thinking and cultural competence are so critical."   "I think sometimes we get values confused with choices and behaviors, preferences and desires."   "When we're really hyper achievers and we're very excited about getting results, sometimes we need to just pause a moment and hold back." Here are the books mentioned in this episode     Resources Mentioned The Leadership Podcast | Sponsored by | Rafti Advisors. LLC | Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC | Talia Fox LinkedIn | KUSI Global Website | Talia Fox Instagram | Talia Fox YouTube | Talia Fox Twitter |  

Jim Vaselopulos, founder of Rafti Advisors, discusses the importance of skill development to solve core business problems. He highlights the complexity of sales, emphasizing that it involves more than just results; it's about human interactions. Jim discusses the challenge of defining and teaching leadership due to its delicate balance and the absence of absolutes. He shares personal stories about mentors who had a significant impact on his life. He also mentions the influence of Stoicism on leadership and the value of embracing ancient wisdom in the modern world.       Key Takeaways [01:28] In this episode, Jan started to reflect on their 12-year working relationship and discuss Jim's unique character traits. He touches on how Jim, despite his preference for luxury, excels in challenging tasks but dislikes uphill climbs. Jim's positivity, determination, and ability to keep spirits high during tough situations are highlighted. Jan also mentioned JIm’s dedication to helping fellow veterans. [04:29] Jim discusses the universality of business problems and the role of skills training. Jim shares his insights from consulting and the importance of recognizing both uniqueness and commonality in challenges. He focuses on the complexity of sales, emphasizing the significance of human interactions and understanding psychology for sales success. They also briefly mention the changing landscape of business leadership. [11:02] Jim explains that leadership is all about striking a delicate balance, such as holding people accountable while allowing room for mistakes. It involves setting boundaries and granting freedom to find one's path. Leadership is about finding the right balance, and it's not easily explained but better experienced, much like learning to ride a bike. Jim stresses that leadership is about harmonizing different elements, making it complex to teach and understand. [12:37] Jim discusses shared responsibility in leadership and how leaders need to take accountability alongside their team when things go wrong. He touches upon the challenge of younger professionals insisting they are right and explores how numbers and math fit into decision-making. Jim highlights that many people struggle with math, which often leads to accepting numbers without scrutiny. He explains that in business, there are often multiple valid answers, and real-world situations involve complexity and various factors. He stresses the importance of questioning assumptions and knowing when to challenge or accept them. [16:38] Jim explores the idea that patience is a virtue and how it reflects trust and confidence in others and oneself. Jim explains that patience indicates trust in someone's strategy and the need for self-trust. He touches on self-regulation and how heroes in movies often control their emotions, while villains are undone by their inability to do so. [18:44] Jim discusses the concept of conscious competence and its link to achieving more with less effort. Jim shares his experience of working more efficiently by focusing on what adds value and eliminating distractions. He also mentions the influence of ancient philosophies like Stoicism on their approach to leadership and highlights the timeless wisdom in these teachings. He explores the value of understanding the "why" behind success, effective work strategies, and the wisdom of ancient philosophies in leadership. [23:55] Jim delves into the book's structure and the role of curiosity as a central element. He shares a personal story involving a chance encounter with Neil Keating, which led to a significant career opportunity. He discusses the importance of giving back and paying it forward, touching on moments of generosity that can change lives. Plus, they reveal the presence of Easter eggs in the book and how readers can discover them. [35:29] Closing quote: And remember, tell me and I'll forget. Teach me and I'll remember. Involve me and I'll learn. — Benjamin Franklin    Quotable Quotes "Skills training can give you time and space to get to the core problem. So sometimes improving your skills can help mask a problem or make a problem less severe, but it usually never addresses the core problem."   "Sales is often treated as a result rather than the complex set of human interactions it is."   "Leadership is about a delicate balance, about holding people accountable, but letting them make mistakes."   "There is no ground truth."   "Patience is the truest form of trust and confidence."   "You want to work less and achieve more. That comes from conscious competence."   “You need to experience the loss of balance or the ability to make your own balance, to understand balance.”   "Conscious competence is where the real value is that allows you to work less and achieve more."   "Curiosity unlocks everything else. Without curiosity, you can't get any further."   "Clarity is an outcome."   "There is no better way to clarify your thinking than to put it in writing."   Here are the books mentioned in this episode     Resources Mentioned The Leadership Podcast | Sponsored by | Rafti Advisors. LLC | Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC | Jim Vaselopulos Website | Jim Vaselopulos LinkedIn | Jim Vaselopulos Twitter |  

Alysia Silberg is an acclaimed entrepreneur, tech investor, UN Women Global Champion, keynote speaker, and author. Her impressive journey is detailed in her first book, "Unemployable: How I Hired Myself." She shares her inspiring journey from poverty in South Africa to achieving the American dream. She discusses her determination, curiosity, and belief in limitless opportunities that kept her going despite setbacks and adversity. Alysia emphasizes the importance of leverage, particularly through technology, which she considers an equalizer for all individuals regardless of class or privilege. She shares that her love for learning and curiosity have been instrumental in her journey and encourages others to follow their gut instincts and not fear the unknown. Alysia discusses the importance of addressing mental health issues and having open conversations, especially for founders of startups.       Key Takeaways [02:01] Alysia Silberg shares her extraordinary journey from growing up in poverty in South Africa to achieving her American dream. Despite numerous setbacks, she persevered with remarkable determination. Her determination and charisma, reminiscent of her father's Hollywood dream, ultimately led her from poverty to achieving the American dream. Alysia also reveals a touching childhood story of earning her cherished pink roller skates and how it shaped her approach to pursuing dreams with unwavering commitment. [06:49] Alysia shares what kept her moving forward despite the suffering, setbacks, and difficulties she faced. Alysia answers an intriguing question: Can the crucibles we face in life, the hardships and suffering, be something to embrace rather than erase? Alysia’s perspective on this matter is thought-provoking, reflecting how her own experiences have shaped her into who she is today. [10:00] Alysia's story shows how her different way of thinking became her greatest strength, but it wasn't always easy. She emphasizes the importance of surrounding yourself with people who encourage your uniqueness rather than trying to fit societal norms. She highlights the extraordinary potential in individuals who've faced difficulties and discovered their superpowers. Alysia's journey led her to realize that the path society expected her to take wasn't her true calling, even though she excelled in areas like cello and math. [16:35] Alysia delves into the practical concept of leverage and its role in unlocking a better life. Alysia breaks down different forms of leverage, focusing on technology as a powerful equalizer that can empower individuals to enhance their unique skills. She shares an inspiring example of a cellist who used technology to reach a global audience and create opportunities that wouldn't have been possible without it. Alysia firmly believes that technology is a tool that can be harnessed by anyone, regardless of their background, to drive positive change and wealth, especially in the era of AI. [21:50] Alysia imparts essential advice for young professionals, emphasizing the importance of fearlessness, learning from mistakes, and following your instincts. She shares a personal journey from emotional armor to understanding the strength of vulnerability in leadership. Alysia stresses the significance of managing mental health for founders and leaders in the high-stress startup environment. She encourages open dialogues about stress and well-being. She also explores the dynamic between technology, AI, and personal growth, highlighting the choice between an easier life and a growth-oriented one. [33:50] Alysia shares a personal story about venturing out of their comfort zone and embracing a different side. She reveals a surprising transformation from a "super nerd" to a "super party girl" during a nightclub experience with friends who own top LA clubs. Alysia delves into the importance of balancing work with having fun and not taking life too seriously. [35:29] Alysia talks about her unique and transformative relationship with AI, particularly Chat GPT. Alysia shares how she cultivated a deep partnership with AI, treating it not as a tool but as a fellow human collaborator. It's a thought-provoking journey that allows her to transcend her ego, learn from the smartest machine, and become a more effective CEO. [40:03] Closing quote: permanence, perseverance and persistence in spite of all obstacles, discouragements and impossibilities. It is this that in all things, distinguishes the strong soul from the weak. — Thomas Carlisle   Quotable Quotes "I believe the world is filled with limitless opportunities."   "Get up off the ground and keep on going."   "The key to unlocking a better life is leverage."   "I think the power of leverage is that you can literally create limitless possibilities."   "Not fearing things you don't know, start with a tiny, and small, consistent effort to create exponential results."   "Follow your gut. Go after things. Don't be fearless. Don't worry about making mistakes."   "Vulnerability is an important part of being a leader."   "I was so armor plated that I wasn't even aware that it was almost impossible to penetrate it."   "Mental health and startups go hand in hand."   "Be driven by your purpose. Like, be passionate, know why you're doing something, and live for yourself, not for other people."   Here are the books mentioned in this episode   Resources Mentioned The Leadership Podcast | Sponsored by | Rafti Advisors. LLC | Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC | Alysia Silberg Website | Street Global Website | Alysia Silberg LinkedIn | Alysia Silberg Twitter | Alysia Silberg Facebook | Alysia Silberg Instagram |  

Jim Vaselopulos, the founder of Rafti Advisors,  is a C-level business advisor and executive coach with a proven record as a leader, strategist, rainmaker, and expert in new business development. Jim discusses his upcoming book “Clarity: Business Wisdom to Work Less and Achieve More”. He stresses the importance of clarity in business, drawing parallels with wisdom and emphasizing simplicity and focus. He covers common symptoms of a lack of clarity, including excessive busyness. Jim and Jan also explore the challenges of using tests for complex business problems and highlight curiosity as a key tool. They discuss Jim's use of fictional stories to engage readers. The conversation shifts to accountability, workplace busyness, and delegation. Jim and Jan address workplace betrayal, and share personal experiences. They discuss the balance between simplicity and complexity, and share a parenting lesson relevant to business problem-solving.    Key Takeaways [01:26] Jan interviews Jim, and this episode centers on Jim's book theme: clarity. Their sponsor, Paul Darley, praises Jim's upcoming book for its ability to capture the emotions of business leaders. They discuss how clarity results from focusing on what truly matters and how it can lead to lower stress and better results. Jim draws parallels between wisdom and clarity, emphasizing the importance of simplicity and focus in both sports coaching and business.  [06:32] Jim discusses ten common symptoms that point to a lack of clarity, including issues like accountability, agency, and being constantly busy. When asked which symptom is most common, Jim compares these symptoms to fever and explains that being excessively busy is a pervasive issue, often linked to a lack of agency.  [08:00] Jim and Jan explore the challenges of using tests to uncover core business issues. They highlight that business problems are intricate, influenced by factors like people and context, making simple tests impractical. They stress the significance of curiosity and asking questions to gain a profound understanding of problems, much like how doctors diagnose illnesses. [11:54] Jan inquired about Jim's use of fictional stories in his book. Jim explains that stories are a great way to convey information and resonate with people. They discuss how stories are memorable and touch on the impact of emotionally charged narratives, particularly those involving children. The conversation then transitions to the topic of accountability, where Jim talks about how accountability issues can manifest at individual, team, and organizational levels. They mention that such issues often involve judgment, trust, and fairness. Jim and Jan emphasize the importance of addressing these issues effectively to prevent conflicts and team breakdowns.  [13:32] Jim and Jan tackle the issue of workplace busyness and its impact on employee engagement. They ponder why busy leaders coexist with disengaged employees, questioning whether busyness is a choice or a necessity. Jim suggests that people may naturally prefer busyness for various reasons, including societal influences. The conversation then shifts to the topic of delegation, with Jim highlighting common mistakes. They stress the importance of equipping individuals with the right skills, resources, and time when assigning tasks. They point out that delegation is often misunderstood as simply passing responsibility, which can lead to inefficiencies and frustration. [22:01] Jim and Jan delve into the topic of workplace betrayal and its repercussions. They draw from their personal experiences to shed light on trust-related challenges that often arise in delegation and teamwork. Jim narrates an incident from his early career where trust was eroded, resulting in difficult choices and significant takeaways.  [24:42] Jim discusses the balance between simplicity and complexity. He talks about how people naturally prefer straightforward and concise solutions but live in a complex world. Jim shares insights from his book, "Clarity," highlighting the need to recognize and focus on what truly matters while navigating the intricate aspects of life and work. He emphasizes that while understanding complex issues may require a nuanced approach, practical execution often demands clear and precise strategies. [26:12] Jim shares a parenting lesson that applies to business problem-solving. He talks about finding a lost toy by instructing his children to put away everything except the lost toy. This story highlights the concept of focusing on what the problem is, to make it more manageable. Jim mentions his upcoming book "Clarity" launching on October 18th.  [29:44] Closing quote: And remember, the mind is not a vessel to be filled, but a fire to be kindled. — Plutarch   Quotable Quotes “Clarity evokes a calm and focused state of mind with lower stress and diminished anxiety over what to do next." "The reason people fight and have conflict is it all starts with disrespect." "It's that curiosity that drives you to real solutions. And in the grand scheme of things, I think that's really what we want to go for." "At an individual level, a lot of times we imagine ourselves to be either more responsible for something or if something went bad, I'll take all the blame for this and I kind of martyr myself in that realm." "Curiosity drives you to real solutions. When you're dealing with a business problem, you're saying, like, hey, there are some facts. But then I want to kind of listen to the stories, the narratives people are putting together. And if they don't jive, if they don't match, something's wrong. And you can't just let it be wrong. You got to be curious. You got to dig deeper." "We like stories, and I think that's just a better way to learn." "Conflict starts with disrespect." "I think the Gallup poll is probably true, I believe that 100%. It's not because they're managing time poorly. It's because we're motivating them poorly." "Most people do delegation so incredibly wrong. It's tragic because we look at it as like, 'Well, I'm just going to have this person who's been around. They're going to do it now.' And I think one, someone's got to be capable. They have to be trained and capable of doing it." "We as humans prefer simplicity. We like clean things, we like simple things. But we live in a complex world. And if you live in a complex world and you try to make everything too simple, it just doesn't work."   Here are the books mentioned in this episode   Resources Mentioned The Leadership Podcast | Sponsored by | Rafti Advisors. LLC | Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC | Jim Vaselopulos Website | Jim Vaselopulos LinkedIn | Jim Vaselopulos Twitter | 

Dean Karrel is an Executive and Professional Career Coach. He is the instructor of over ten courses available on LinkedIn Learning and has also been in senior leadership positions for more than three decades with major global publishing companies. He's also the author of "Mastering the Basics: Simple Lessons for Achieving Success in Business." Dean's networking approach focuses on meaningful connections, and he highlights the importance of asking questions and sharing insights. Mentorship is a key theme, with Dean reflecting on the impact of positive and challenging experiences. Dean also discusses the evolving business landscape, emphasizing the importance of emotional intelligence, video conferencing, fiscal responsibility, and the role of AI in sales and business. Throughout, Dean's generosity and commitment to meaningful connections shine through.     Key Takeaways [02:09] Dean Karel is not just special; he's extraordinary. As an acclaimed LinkedIn Learning instructor and a networking virtuoso. With an impressive background in the publishing industry, including 22 years at Wiley, he's had the opportunity to meet and engage with countless leaders, authors, and brilliant minds. Dean is also the author of "Mastering the Basics: Simple Lessons for Achieving Success in Business." But what truly sets Dean apart is his unwavering generosity. He's a giant giver, always ready to share his wisdom and insights. In fact, he's been instrumental in introducing us to many of the incredible guests we've had on this show.  [04:11] The discussion revolves around the concept of networking, which often evokes anxiety. However, Dean offers a refreshing approach - focus on connecting with individuals, asking questions, and sharing insights. Jim and Jan share their successful strategy of reaching out to interesting people, and Dean emphasizes that networking is not limited to business; it's about enjoying the camaraderie of people. Dean's networking journey has opened doors throughout his career, even leading him to LinkedIn Learning. He also addresses challenges faced by sales teams, highlighting the importance of building trust and friendship with potential clients. Dean underscores the idea of starting with one meaningful connection instead of overwhelming numbers.  [09:28] Dean shares his experience on sales and his career journey. He emphasizes the need to start somewhere and favors coaching over management in sales. Dean initially aimed to be a sports announcer but shifted towards sales and publishing. His early job at Prentice Hall taught him essential sales principles under the mentorship of Gary Gutchel. He discussed experiences at Simon & Schuster, marked by a fear-based management style. Dean found a more fulfilling path at Wiley, where he thrived thanks to supportive leaders.  [13:07] Dean discusses his unique perspective on mentorship. He reflects on how both positive and challenging experiences shaped his journey. While he had the privilege of a great mentor, Gary Gutchel, during his 22 years at Wiley, his time at Simon Schuster exposed him to ineffective leadership. Dean learned that pushing for results and high-stress environments can lead to health and mental issues among employees, creating a revolving door atmosphere.  [14:49] Dean explores the enduring principles of business success in a changing world. Dean highlights the ongoing importance of emotional intelligence, which includes empathy and listening skills. He also mentions the increased use of video conferencing and the need for fiscal responsibility. Dean also updates us to his book. These updates would involve discussing when to meet in person versus using video conferencing and dedicating a new section to the evolving field of artificial intelligence in sales and business. [16:46] Dean discusses the importance of AI and how younger generations are more open to it. He emphasizes the need for continuous learning and adapting to technology. The conversation also touches on the rapid changes in recent years, like remote work and AI advancements. He questions whether the basics of human interaction and influence remain the same. Authenticity is valued, especially on platforms like LinkedIn. Engaging actively and leaving comments is encouraged for networking. Dean observes that only a small number of people post original content on LinkedIn, despite its global reach, highlighting the opportunity to stand out. [25:23] Dean shares an inspiring story from a National Speakers Association event that motivated him to become a thought leader.He shares tips on overcoming intimidation in sales meetings. Dean suggests starting on LinkedIn to share work insights, comparing it to taking the first step onto a dance floor. He encourages brief sentences over long posts. Regarding work ethic in sales, Jim Jan questions whether traditional values still matter, but Dean emphasizes the importance of a balanced approach, including punctuality, effort, and preparedness. [28:13] Dean discusses the pursuit of success and the allure of shortcuts. He stresses the importance of doing the work for success and questions how we use time saved through efficiency gains. He draws inspiration from Dave Crenshaw's focus techniques and shares a personal connection to him as a LinkedIn instructor.  [32:00] Dean discusses the challenges of maintaining deep relationships in our distracted, fast-paced world. He stresses the importance of genuine connections over superficial ones based on social media metrics. Jim also shares a touching story of reaching out to an acquaintance, leading to a life-changing job opportunity. They emphasize that meaningful connections can come from unexpected places. [40:30] Closing quote: a good life is built with good relationships. — Robert J. Waldinger   Quotable Quotes "There's a big difference between coaching and management. I think sales is an area that could probably use a lot more coaching and a lot less management." "Embrace new technology. It's not going away." "Always be learning new techniques and new skills." "If you're doing things like you were in March of 2020 and today, then you're behind the eight ball." "You do not have to be a jerk to be successful in sales. In fact, you're probably more successful if you're a good person." "For those who have been hesitant about networking, about reaching out to people, and about being yourself, my lesson is always, don't fake it, because people are going to be able to read through you very quickly." "Do a little soft shoe, so to speak, and get your feet wet. That's how I started." "And if you are investing that time instead of spending it, I think your hack might be worth it. "But my line is, our real sphere of close friends is a lot smaller than we think. We have a lot of acquaintances. We have a lot of coworkers. But who do you call when you need help?" "The world would be so much better if we all listened more and we cared more and just took a little extra interest in another person." “Learning is more than just a catchphrase. It's always learning new techniques and new skills.”   Here are the books mentioned in this episode     Resources Mentioned The Leadership Podcast | Sponsored by | Rafti Advisors. LLC | Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC | Dean Karrel LinkedIn | Dean Karrel Twitter | 

Jeffrey Scheuer, an expert in media, politics, and now higher education. He's known for his insightful work in these fields. His latest book, "Inside the Liberal Arts, Critical Thinking and Citizenship," uniquely connects liberal arts with rational and critical thinking. He discussed the influence of the information ecosystem and the liberal arts' role in citizenship. He highlighted changes in journalism due to the internet and the need for new standards. Emphasizing media literacy and critical thinking, he showcased how disciplines like philosophy teach valuable critical thinking skills for leadership and diverse careers. Jeffrey stressed critical thinking and effective communication in business leadership. He also touched on civic knowledge, corporate citizenship, equitable education access, clear definitions in political and economic discussions, and the importance of liberal arts education for democracy.     Key Takeaways [01:54] Jeffrey Scheuer, an acclaimed author and information ecosystem expert. He discusses the concept of the information ecosystem, explaining how it shapes our understanding of the world through media, education, and more. Jeffrey also talks about the unique role of the liberal arts in reinforcing civic, cultural, and economic citizenship.  [05:17] Jeffrey Scheuer talks about how the internet has changed journalism, making it more decentralized. Jim and Jan then question the need for new standards in this evolving landscape. Jeffrey highlights the challenge of discerning reliable sources from opinions and conspiracy theories. He stresses the importance of media literacy and critical thinking. Ultimately, Jeffrey reminds us that we're both emotional and rational beings navigating the shifting world of information.  [09:42] Then, Jeffrey explores the art of leadership and influence, focusing on the balance between critical thinking and storytelling. He discusses the challenge of defining truth in a complex world, particularly in fields like accounting, where subjectivity can influence facts. Jeffrey acknowledges the elusive nature of universal truth and emphasizes the role of critical thinking in navigating the complexities of differing viewpoints. Philosophy is celebrated as a foundational discipline that teaches us not just what to think but how to think, enhancing our critical thinking skills.  [19:24] Jeffrey discusses the relevance of critical thinking in various career paths, including business. He also touches on how businesses value liberal arts majors for their critical thinking, communication skills, and adaptability. Afterwards, he explored the importance of effective communication and psychological awareness in business leadership. He emphasizes that being psychologically savvy can be more vital in a boardroom than discussing different forms of citizenship. Ultimately, critical thinking remains a valuable asset in navigating the evolving job landscape, regardless of the field.  [23:37] Jeffrey talks about the significance of civic knowledge for being a responsible citizen and understanding the rules of governance. He also delves into the changing expectations of corporate citizenship and the evolving role of leaders in business. Education's role in shaping future citizens and the need for equitable access to quality education is also discussed.  [33:11] Lastly, He touched on the significance of clear definitions about political and economic systems. He stressed the need for shared understanding of terms like socialism and capitalism to enable productive dialogue. As we conclude, we underscore the essential role of liberal arts education in upholding democracy.  [36:25] Closing quote: And remember If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking. — George Patton   Quotable Quotes "We're emotional creatures who are sometimes rational enough, not the other way around." "Liberal learning makes us better critical thinkers and better citizens." "Economics and business are rational processes in which maybe emotion doesn't play as big a role." "We're philosophers whatever we talk. We use philosophy and language all the time." "Business is a quintessentially rational enterprise, trying to maximize profit." "Education is what makes us or fails to make us good citizens." "Without liberal education, even if it's just at the high school level, even if it's just civics, we cannot have citizens and therefore we cannot have a democracy." "A calm, rational discussion that is between people who accept the fact that they're seeking the same outcome is the path forward." "I think what you need is to be psychologically smart about what people want and need and how to get them to hear you."   Here are the books mentioned in this episode   Resources Mentioned The Leadership Podcast | Sponsored by | Rafti Advisors. LLC | Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC | Jeffrey Scheuer Website | Jeffrey Scheuer Facebook | Jeffrey Scheuer  LinkedIn |

Bob Tiede, a 52-year Crew veteran and creator of Leadingwithquestions.com, a blog followed by leaders in over 200 countries for the past 11 years. Bob shares a life-changing event from his early days, driven by his grandmother's belief in his destiny. Bob discusses the underutilization of questions in leadership, emphasizing the power of curiosity and his four favorite questions. He highlights the value of pausing when asking questions and how leaders who embrace this approach can be significantly more effective. Bob also emphasizes the simplicity of asking questions and their role in fostering collaboration and innovative problem-solving. Lastly, he explores the importance of asking open-ended questions during change and shares a moving question from Cheryl Batchelder's book, inviting listeners to join his book ambassador team for a free signed copy of "Leading with Questions."   Key Takeaways [02:08] Bob Tiede, a 52-year Crew (formerly Campus Crusade for Christ) veteran and the creator of Leadingwithquestions.com, a blog followed by leaders in 200 countries for 11 years. Bob shares about an event that changed his life. It began with his grandma's belief on the day he was born that he would "serve the Lord." This story, discovered at 22, still intrigues him. Another life-changing moment was joining a fraternity in his freshman year at the University of South Dakota, leading him to faith through Campus Crusade for Christ.  [04:58] Bob discusses the underutilization of great questions in leadership. He shares that many leaders, including himself in the past, often saw leadership as telling people what to do rather than asking questions. This perspective changed when he discovered the book "Leading with Questions" by Dr. Michael Marquardt in 2006. Bob believes that leaders don't realize the value of questions because no one has shown them how effective questions can be. He introduces his four favorite questions, emphasizing their simplicity and power. Jim and Jan also discuss the fear of losing control when asking questions and the importance of embracing curiosity. [12:59] Now, the focus is on the power of leading with questions, a skill that can be learned in just 30 seconds. The conversation highlights the significance of pausing and patiently waiting for responses when asking questions. Research shows that people often rush after just 2 or 3 seconds of silence, missing out on deeper insights. Bob introduces the "eight-second rule" to emphasize the value of waiting for more meaningful answers.  [15:36] Then, the conversation centers on the power of leaders who lead with questions. Bob explains that leaders who embrace this approach can be significantly more effective than those who simply give orders. He illustrates this with two questions: one about rowing a boat and another about leadership around a conference table. Leaders who ask questions and listen to their team's ideas create a collaborative atmosphere where better solutions emerge, and team members feel a sense of ownership.  [20:03] Afterward, Bob discusses the power of asking questions and explains that it's not as difficult as people often think. Asking questions creates a collaborative atmosphere where team members feel valued and more ideas emerge. Bob also introduces two innovative problem-solving techniques: "guarantee failure brainstorming" and "question storming." Bob also highlights the power of using the word "might" in questions to make them more inviting and open-ended. [28:13] Bob discusses the challenges of clients undergoing significant change, particularly with new people taking on new roles. Bob emphasizes the importance of asking open-ended questions to better understand the situation. He suggests questions like "Can you please tell me more?" and "What's our destination?" to help leaders and clients gain clarity about their goals and current position. Bob also highlights the significance of having a clear destination and a well-defined plan to navigate change effectively.  [33:12] Lastly, Bob shares a moving story about a question from Cheryl Batchelder's book, "Dare to Serve," which asks, "How well do you know your staff? Do you know the three or four events that have most shaped their lives?" This question led to a touching conversation with his colleague Neil. Bob encourages the audience to consider joining his book ambassador team to get a free signed copy of his latest book, "Leading with Questions."  [39:39] Closing quote: Remember, judge a man by his questions rather than his answers.  — Voltaire   Quotable Quotes "The power of might is in your questioning. Take away the word should and put in might, which just makes it more inviting, more comfortable, more safe to give." "People support what they help create." "For leaders, so many of them have never seen the value of questions." "The longer the silence, the better the answer." "A leader who leads with questions will be ten times more effective than a leader who leads by telling." "What are the chances that a leader might hear an idea better than the one they had?" "When you empower your staff to go with their ideas, you're going to have his whole heart." "If you've never been asked that question before, how helpful will it be if I start talking again in two or three seconds?"   Here are the books mentioned by Bob    Resources Mentioned The Leadership Podcast | Sponsored by | Rafti Advisors. LLC | Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC | Bob Tiede Website | Bob Tiede LinkedIn | Bob Tiede Twitter | 

Michael Reddington, an expert at moving people from resistance to commitment. He is an executive resource, Certified Forensic Interviewer, President of InQuasive, Inc., and author of “The Disciplined Listening Method.” He discusses coaching, effective communication, and his Disciplined Listening Method. This method emphasizes patience, outcome-focused thinking, and emotional control. The conversation also covers hiring for valuable traits like patience and empathy, and the importance of creating opportunities for employees to demonstrate these skills.  Michael highlights that people often lie to protect themselves and suggests seeking more details when confronted with excuses to promote accountability. The challenges of virtual communication, distractions, and the importance of self-discipline and empathy in leadership are also addressed.     Key Takeaways [02:33] Michael Reddington, a certified forensic interviewer, shares his unique passion for coaching youth sports, something not found in his public bio. He discusses the value of teaching and learning, even for seasoned professionals. Michael explains the role of a certified forensic interviewer in helping businesses tackle complex issues like theft, fraud, and harassment. He also touched on the Discipline Listening Method, a unique approach to uncovering the truth in business situations. [07:07] Michael Reddington introduces the Discipline Listening Method. This method goes beyond basic active listening and aims to solve common communication problems. [15:02] Michael Reddington discusses the balance between hiring for behaviors and teaching skills in business. He explores the importance of identifying and fostering traits like patience, empathy, and the ability to ask good questions. Michael highlights the need for strategic communication in leadership and suggests that leaders should create opportunities for employees to demonstrate these qualities. He also emphasizes the value of slowing down the perception of time in conversations to reduce defensiveness and improve information sharing. [25:12] Michael discusses the concept of lying and excuses. He suggests that people often lie to protect themselves and emphasizes the importance of trust in relationships. Michael differentiates between trust and faith, highlighting that trust is built through experience. He recommends handling excuses by asking for more details to promote accountability. The podcast challenges common beliefs about lying and excuses, focusing on trust and productive conversations. [33:09] Michael's discussion revolves around the challenges of effective communication in a world dominated by virtual meetings, distractions, and the changing landscape of interpersonal interactions. Michael also explores how the shift to remote work and the prevalence of online meetings have affected communication dynamics. [37:04] Michael delves into the concept of disciplined listening and leadership. Michael introduces a leadership test consisting of three questions: "Are you calm? Are you consistent? Are you making people better?" He explores the idea that effective leadership often requires self-discipline, empathy, and an understanding of how to approach emotional moments in interactions. [43:42] Closing quote: I remind myself every morning nothing I say this day will teach me anything. So if I'm going to learn, I must do it by listening.  — Larry King   Quotable Quotes "Patience allows the conversation to come to you. Be patient. Let it unfold." "Listening equals learning. If we're not learning, we're not listening." "Empathizing doesn't mean agreeing or thinking that they're right, just understanding that based on their experience and expectations, that is a valid perspective that they have." "If we're quiet long enough, you'll be surprised how many questions will get answered for you." "If you're going to hire for it, you better know how to ask for it, and you better know how to create experiential opportunities for people to demonstrate it." "If somebody lies to me, if somebody gives me an excuse, it's likely because they're trying to save face and avoid a consequence." "Excuses pave the highway to accountability." "The most unsettling person is the person who cannot be unsettled." "People in general will be surprised what other people will tell them and what other people will do for them when we prioritize our counterparts in our communication."   Here are the books mentioned in this episode   Resources Mentioned The Leadership Podcast | Sponsored by | Rafti Advisors. LLC | Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC | Michael Reddington LinkedIn | Michael Reddington Website | InQuasive Website |  

Executives John Harrington and Dave Pickhardt, both influenced by their experiences at Marion Laboratories, share insights on leadership and organizational culture. John, founder of the Mr. K Legacy Project, and Dave, co-founder of Fuel, discuss how Marion's personalized approach to recruitment, onboarding and development created a strong foundation for success. They highlight the importance of clear expectations and empowerment, coaching, and continuous learning in leadership roles. Drawing from their time under Mr. Kaufman’s leadership, they stress the enduring value of appreciation, consistent practices, and creating an environment that fosters personal and professional growth.   Key Takeaways [02:28] John and Dave share their Marion Labs stories: John's connection-focused recruitment and Dave's response to an ad, driven by values and growth. Different paths, both proud of Marion's unique culture. [10:33] John and Dave remember how Marion Laboratories' personalized training approach was more than just basic onboarding. It included mentorship, thorough training, and hands-on experience, building a strong bond with the company's values and culture. They highlight the importance of this kind of onboarding for lasting success and organizational greatness. [14:48] John and Dave uncover how Marion Laboratories achieved a balance between setting clear expectations and fostering empowerment. Charlie, a mentor, effectively communicated essential tasks and expectations, offering continuous guidance to newcomers like Dave. This approach empowered individuals to thrive independently, forming a winning formula for achieving success. [23:27] The conversation covers leadership preparation at Marion Laboratories. Dave's progression from sales to management involved learning from failures and developing skills, while John emphasizes early identification by managers and structured programs. Marion Laboratories valued leadership without micromanagement and prepared individuals through mentorship, assessment centers, and ongoing support. [29:51] John and Dave highlight the value of coaching in leadership. Coaching boosts productivity and teamwork, even though it's less common now. They emphasize that dedicating time to employees and integrating coaching into leadership is key. These coaching principles work across industries for success and growth. [41:27] John and Dave reflect on the enduring principles of leadership exemplified by Mr. K, the founder of their company. They emphasize the power of genuine appreciation, consistent leadership practices, and creating an environment where individuals feel valued. Their anecdotes showcase how Mr. K's legacy continues to inspire leadership based on care, trust, and the drive for achievement. [51:36 Closing quote: Remember, the more that you expect from people, the more they live up to your expectations.  — Ewing Marion Kauffman   Quotable Quotes "I think the workplace is not nearly as rich, it's not nearly as connected as it was years ago. And that leads to some of this displacement. This leads to some of why people leave organizations."  "The more you can create clarity of direction and help people understand exactly what's expected, without being a micromanager, I think the better off you are." "You can't feel empowered if you're abandoned and if you're not coached." "It was a great combination of competition and collaboration, but, you know, people were there to help and support you and contribute to your development." "If you aspire to be in management, you're going to be somebody that not only knew what to do, but also knew how to do things as well." "The greatest source of motivation is sincere appreciation." "Anybody could do that if they sincerely appreciated people as their greatest asset." "The more that you expect from people, the more they live up to your expectations."   Resources Mentioned The Leadership Podcast | Sponsored by | Rafti Advisors. LLC | Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC | Dave Pickhardt LinkedIn | John Harrington LinkedIn | 

Catherine Sanderson discusses her book, "The Positive Shift." The conversation spans diverse topics such as raising rescue puppies, hotel maids' mindset impacting well-being, the placebo effect's role in healing and leadership, and mindset's influence on workplace effectiveness. Strategies to counter negativity, balance work culture, and encourage open communication are explored. Catherine emphasizes the value of diverse perspectives, empathetic leadership, and the impact of ageism. The significance of fostering "flow" in an engaging workplace is also discussed, along with psychology's role in promoting well-being.       Key Takeaways [01:56] Catherine Sanderson, psychologist and author of "The Positive Shift," discusses her book and its connections to her work. She shares her new interest in raising rescue puppies, linking it to positive psychology. The conversation covers a study about hotel maids and exercise, revealing the impact of mindset on well-being. The placebo effect's relevance to healing and leadership is also explored.  [14:57] Catherine examines how mindset and attitudes influence workplace effectiveness. She shares personal insights on toxic environments, stress, and differing viewpoints. Strategies like reframing and behavior change are explored to counter negativity, along with the significance of balance for a thriving work culture. Catherine also discusses leadership impact and the role of nature in promoting workplace well-being. [26:30] Catherine discusses diversity in the workplace, the role of empathy in leadership, and age-related dynamics. She highlights the value of diverse perspectives, the impact of ageism, and the unifying power of empathy.  [32:14] Catherine discusses the challenge of promoting open communication in workplaces, particularly when projects face issues. The bystander effect's impact on group dynamics and communication is explored. Strategies for encouraging open dialogue are emphasized, including creating a culture of valuing diverse opinions and ethical leadership. The use of rank-neutral communication, like fighter pilots' call signs, is highlighted for fostering honest conversations across hierarchies. [39:42] Catherine discusses fostering an engaging workplace that encourages a state of "flow" - deep engagement and productivity. Autonomy, mastery, and purpose are key factors for achieving this, along with providing tools and support. She also delves into psychology's impact on well-being, showcasing how deliberate actions can cultivate happiness, even for those without a naturally positive outlook. [44:34] Closing quote: Remember, surround yourself with good people, surround yourself with positivity and people who are going to challenge you to make you better.  —  Ali Krieger   Quotable Quotes "The placebo effect might work because people actually change how they work." "If there's one takeaway, it's like just a small phrase or a sentence chosen carefully can have tremendous impacts." "If you know you have to spend time with somebody who is toxic, who is stressful, who creates this sort of negative energy, try to come up with strategies for immediately doing something after you spend time with that person." "Because the problem is that stress is contagious. Positivity is also contagious, but stress is contagious. Negativity is contagious and that disrupts our ability to actually do our best work." “Recognizing that different people see the world in different ways, and that's okay, maybe we don't want an office entirely of tiggers or entirely of EORS, right?" "We actually have an opportunity to give people space in order to perform their best work." "So changing your behavior can change your mindset. And probably those behaviors lead to a change in mindset." “Ethical leadership flows from the top, because if the leader on top doesn't encourage that sort of vigorous, courageous, vocal communication from the entire group, it doesn't happen." “Create a workplace in which people can experience flow, because flow feels great."   These are the books mentioned in this episode   Resources Mentioned The Leadership Podcast | Sponsored by | Rafti Advisors. LLC | Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC | Catherine Sanderson Website | Catherine Sanderson Facebook | Catherine Sanderson LinkedIn | Catherine Sanderson Twitter | Catherine Sanderson Instagram | 

Don Bentley, renowned author of the Matt Drake series and Tom Clancy: A Jack Ryan Jr. Novel Book. From Apache pilot to FBI agent, his life story embodies resilience and diverse experiences. Explore his insights on failure, leadership, and trust-building, shaped by commanding military units, managing startups, and writing for prestigious franchises. Don candidly reflects on a defining day in his life, offering a glimpse into the struggles soldiers face on and off the battlefield. Don Bentley's story is a testament to the transformative power of challenges and the unwavering pursuit of growth and achievement.     Key Takeaways [02:12] Don Bentley, a New York Times bestselling author known for the Matt Drake series and Tom Clancy Jack Ryan Jr. novels. From army Apache pilot to FBI agent, his journey is defined by resilience and diverse experiences. Don shares his unique perspective on the value of failure, the importance of supportive factors, and the enduring pursuit of meaningful achievements. [12:09] Don reflects on his experience of pursuing a pilot's license and navigating the unpredictable terrain of startups, valuable lessons emerge. The candid discussion touches upon the initial misconception of natural talent, the unexpected twists of startup endeavors, and the profound impact of failure on personal development. He shares his journey of transitioning from the FBI to startups, revealing the intricate balance between narrow focus and diversification. [17:03] Don’s expertise in building trust and leading in high-stakes situations takes the spotlight as he shares insights from commanding military units, managing startups, and writing for prestigious franchises. His approach, anchored in humility and authenticity, emphasizes the significance of servant leadership and the value of every individual's role.  [27:49] Don opens up about a defining and haunting day in his life—June 20, 2005.  Serving as an Air Cavalry troop commander in Afghanistan, he recounts the challenges and tragedies of that day when tasked with rescuing a compromised SEAL team. The emotional aftermath, combined with his transition back to civilian life, offers a glimpse into the struggles soldiers face both on the battlefield and within themselves. Through the camaraderie of fellow veterans, he finds healing and a new purpose, highlighting the resilience that shapes his ongoing journey. [41:42] Closing quote: Remember, you have to remember that the hard days are what make you stronger. The bad days make you realize what a good day is. If you never had any bad days, you would never have that sense of accomplishment. — Ali Raisman.    Quotable Quotes "Once you get used to failing and you pick yourself up, then the next thing doesn't seem so difficult to try."   "And I think being a good leader is very similar to that in that your actions should show that you're a caring leader, that you're willing to do what you're asking your subordinates to do as well, not your words."   "The things that are worth having are not easy to get."   "The hardest things in life are the ones that are worth having."   "I know what my limitations are as a person and sometimes you can't figure that out when things succeed. You can only figure that out when things go sideways."   "Leadership is taking an organization where it needs to go rather than where it wants to go."   "Excellence has to be worked for because that's not the natural order of things."   "When you're in the thick of it, you better be calm and competent."   "What we all want is to be surrounded by people that have our backs no matter what we're doing and people that we can trust."   These are the books mentioned by Don Ben Bentley   Resources Mentioned The Leadership Podcast | Sponsored by | Rafti Advisors. LLC | Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC | Don Bentley Website | Don Bentley Facebook | Don Benley Twitter | 

Mohammed Qahtani, a five-time TEDx speaker, co-founder of the Saudi Stuttering Association, and winner of the 2015 Toastmasters World Championship of Public Speaking. Mohammed shares his journey of overcoming severe stuttering to become a dynamic motivational speaker. He emphasizes the impact of words and the importance of humor in public speaking, encouraging tailored approaches for effective workplace communication. Mohammed's insights into high-performance leadership involve unlocking hidden talents in team members, fostering a positive work environment, and adapting to evolving work trends, including a balance between office and remote work. In negotiation and cross-cultural leadership, Mohammed advises against rigid goals, highlights the significance of understanding context, and recommends using local phrases to connect with diverse audiences. He also champions perseverance and learning from mistakes to achieve seemingly impossible goals.     Key Takeaways [01:22] Mohammed Qahtani – a five-time TEDx speaker, co-founder of the Saudi Stuttering Association, and a dynamic motivational speaker who has left his mark in over 40 countries with more than 1000 inspiring events. Despite childhood struggles with severe stuttering, Mohammed's journey led him to embrace the power of public speaking. Through resilience and determination, he not only conquered his speech impediment but also discovered the transformative impact of words. Mohammed's story serves as a reminder that every word we choose holds the potential to shape lives and leave lasting impressions. [06:08] Mohammed shares insights on infusing humor into talks, emphasizing the audience's love for stories and laughter. Shifting to workplace communication, he advises tailoring your approach using the "DISC" personality test, adapting to different personalities for effective conversations. He also provides tips on balancing participation in meetings, recognizing cues, and encouraging quieter voices to contribute meaningfully.  [13:21] Mohammed also talks about high-performance leadership. He uses the analogy of squeezing an orange to unlock hidden talents in team members, emphasizing personalized roles, skill development, and fostering a friendly work environment. As for remote work trends in Saudi Arabia, Mohammed notes a mix of office and remote work, with an emphasis on work-home separation. [20:06] Mohammed offers insights on effective negotiation and cross-cultural leadership. He highlights avoiding rigid goals, understanding context, and not showing weakness while negotiating. Mohammed recommends using local phrases to show respect and tailoring communication to audience concerns. Mohammed also encourages listeners to overcome self-doubt and challenges, emphasizing that achieving "impossible" goals is attainable through perseverance and learning from mistakes. [27:51] Closing quote: We don't always have an accurate view of our own potential. I think most people who are frightened of public speaking and can't imagine they might feel different as a result of training, don't assume you know how much potential you have. Sometimes the only way to know what you can do is to test yourself. — Scott Adams   Quotable Quotes "Impossible does not exist."   “The only way to overcome any kind of fear is to face the ultimate.”   "You might be having a bad day and say something you didn't really mean, but it leaves a scar in people's hearts."   "The audience will always love two things: stories and laughter."   "The most important thing is understanding the person that you're talking to."   "If you start speaking in front of people, you will overcome the fear and the stuttering will go away."   "Injecting humor gets people on your side."   "There will be moments when you cry in the shower wondering why I didn't get to where I want to go. But when you pick yourself up and try again, every time you try again, you're learning a mistake that you're not going to repeat again."   "Your first obstacle is yourself."   "Always put your audience first and then you as a speaker come second."   "Sometimes the only way to know what you can do is to test yourself." Resources Mentioned The Leadership Podcast | Sponsored by | Rafti Advisors. LLC | Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC | Mohammed Qahtani Website | Mohammed Qahtani Facebook | Mohammed Qahtani Twitter | Mohammed Qahtani Instagram | 

Robert Cialdini, Ph.D., a renowned expert on the psychology of influence and persuasion. Known as the "Godfather of influence," his book "INFLUENCE: The Psychology of Persuasion" is considered one of the best business books ever. He discusses the concept of unity as a lever of influence and how it differs from social proof and liking. Dr. Robert shares insights on "blue lies" and how tribalism can affect our behaviors. Dr. Robert also talked about his second edition of "Influence" and the goals of the Cialdini Institute. A fascinating conversation on understanding human behavior and increasing ethical influence.     Key Takeaways [01:32] Dr. Robert, the "Godfather of influence," discussing his latest book "Influence" and the new concept of "unity" in persuasion. [11:02] Dr. Robert discusses "blue lies," a new form of lying that protects in-groups while harming outsiders. We explore the power of unity, the impact of social media on tribalism, and effective leadership tactics.  [19:09] During this discussion, Dr. Robert delves into the concept of unity as a leadership principle and its potential impact on creating silos within organizations. We explore the role of influence in leadership and sales, emphasizing the importance of understanding human nature to achieve desirable behaviors. The conversation also touches on the evolution of language as a tool for persuasion and differentiation from other species. [25:09] We also explore the impact of dwindling attention spans and the six behavioral levers of influence. Dr. Cialdini highlights the power of triggers, such as a welcoming statement, in online interactions. He also discusses the launch of the Cialdini Institute, focusing on ethical influence and scaling up teaching programs. [34:37] Dr. Robert delves into the six behavioral levers of influence and their profound impact on marketers and digital media. He also talks about the future of artificial intelligence and how human connection will remain crucial in the age of technology. Dr. Cialdini emphasizes the power of relationships and judgment in effective influence and negotiations. [42:11] Closing quote: Remember, character may almost be called the most effective means of persuasion. — Aristotle   Quotable Quotes "People say yes to those that they share a personal or professional identity with."   “The idea of this connectedness, this unity of purpose, of effort and so on, those were the people who could really bring that to the surface and create the collaboration and the cooperation that you need to be a truly successful leader with a team that's dedicated to moving forward together."   "If leaders in the middle management ranks start really applying the unity principle, we enforce these silos with even greater strength."   "Attention spans are dwindling. And so what we need to know is those levers of influence that move people away from where they are now in the direction that we would like them to go."   "Don't allow AI to be the whole package. Infuse it with connection, ways to connect statements of connection, get humanity into it, and you'll get both barrels now working in your favor."   "Character may almost be called the most effective means of persuasion." (Aristotle)   These are the books mentioned of Robert Cialdini   Resources Mentioned The Leadership Podcast | Sponsored by | Rafti Advisors. LLC | Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC | Robert Cialdini, Ph.D. Website | Robert Cialdini, Ph.D. YouTube | Cialdini Institute Website |  

Megan Thatford, CEO of Elite Meet discusses her passion for military veterans, and her role in connecting veterans to resources during their transition. Elite Meet offers personalized support beyond networking events, helping veterans in various stages of their careers. Megan emphasizes the valuable skills of special operations veterans and encourages considering them for roles in consulting, project management, and sales. Collaboration between businesses and nonprofits is crucial for serving the veteran community effectively. Listen now and learn how to support veterans by offering connections and introductions.     Key Takeaways [01:23] Megan's passion lies in warfighter health, a topic not widely known from her public bio. Over the years, she has been deeply involved with nonprofits, dedicated to raising awareness about healthcare outcomes for veterans and fostering connections to improve their overall wellness. This commitment to making a difference is rooted in Megan's outgoing nature and the influence of her father. Treating people as equals and finding value in every interaction is a belief that drives her networking efforts at Elite Meet. [05:52] As CEO of Elite Meet, Megan shares that the organization was founded by former Navy SEAL, John Allen, to support transitioning veterans through networking events. They expanded to conferences and virtual gatherings, adapting during COVID-19. Megan emphasizes their personalized approach in helping veterans succeed after leaving the military. Elite Meet's mission now extends to anyone going through life transitions, offering valuable career resources and connections. [12:02] Elite Meet acts as a crucial connection hub for individuals in transition. It educates veterans about various industries and facilitates networking with professionals from diverse fields. By encouraging personal growth and overcoming self-promotion challenges, Elite Meet empowers veterans to embark on successful post-military careers. The organization's support complements initiatives by The Honor Foundation and Commit Foundation, making the transition process smoother and more fruitful. [17:20] Megan explains how Elite Meet supports elite veterans in their transition to civilian jobs. Jan questions how elite veterans compare to elite business professionals. Megan highlights their shared core characteristics, but notes a gap in understanding veterans' value in the corporate world. She suggests roles like consulting, operations/project management, business development, and customer success as good fits for veterans. They also discuss the importance of understanding the value of relationship sales in the business world. [31:49] Megan highlights the importance of collaboration among nonprofits to better serve veterans. She encourages businesses to explore how they can support veterans and invites listeners to visit the Elite Meet website and be network generous by offering help to veterans in transition. [43:56] Closing quote: Remember, when you stop caring what people think, you lose your capacity for connection. When you're defined by it, you lose out on your capacity for vulnerability.   — Brene Brown   Quotable Quotes "Being a connector is really the way you view interactions with other humans and other individuals." "I truly believe that everyone you meet has the potential to be a connection for you at some point in your life down the road, tomorrow, today." "People are people. You're not a rank anymore. You're not a boss. If you look at others and interact with them on a human level, you're going to be much happier and much more successful." "Getting to the point where who you are today is not who you were yesterday. It's just a part of who you have become." "Consulting is a great space for anyone across the special operations community." "Skillbridge internships or fellowships are a fantastic way to do a try before you buy type experience." "Collaboration with businesses and nonprofits is the way forward."   Resources Mentioned The Leadership Podcast | Sponsored by | Rafti Advisors. LLC | Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC | Megan Thatford’s LinkedIn | Elite Meet’s Website |  

Solomon R.C. Ali is the Founder and CEO of Solomon RC Ali Corporation, and author of “Why Black Wealth Matters in White America.” In this episode, he discusses his journey overcoming adversity, the influence of his military experience on leadership, and addressing racial wealth inequality. Solomon's Minority Business Access podcast offers valuable advice focusing on counting the cost, commitment, and following business principles and fundamentals. Solomon emphasizes learning from mistakes, treating others with respect, and the importance of a committed management team.      Key Takeaways [01:39] Solomon, known for revolutionizing the doorbell home security industry with the Ring Doorbell, discusses overcoming adversity in his childhood and how it shaped his success as a leader. He emphasizes the importance of learning from mistakes and taking ownership of them. [10:40] Drawing from his military experience, Solomon explains how it influenced his leadership style and problem-solving abilities. He highlights trust, selflessness, and problem-solving as crucial in both military and business contexts. He addresses racial wealth inequality in the US, advocating for education, awareness, and financial literacy in marginalized communities. [23:18] Solomon's Minority Business Access podcast offers valuable advice applicable to everyone, focusing on counting the cost, commitment, and following business principles and fundamentals. He acknowledges the existence of racism but believes that most people act without personal bias or discrimination. [27:03] Treating others with respect and responsibility regardless of race is paramount to Solomon. He stresses the importance of making informed decisions based on reliable knowledge and past experiences. Solomon also values serving others, leaving a positive impact, and having a committed management team when evaluating companies. Coaching and teaching team members while empathizing with their struggles is crucial, as highlighted by Solomon. [41:36] Solomon mentions his book on black wealth, emphasizing its relevance to all readers. The book aims to provide awareness to consumers and business owners, emphasizing understanding customers and economic factors. He draws parallels between military strategy and efficient business operations, urging business owners to consider the contributions of every individual involved. [43:56] Closing quote: Remember, the world is full of people who have never since childhood met an open doorway with an open mind.  — E.B. White   Quotable Quotes "The leadership was basically having the faith and the confidence in knowing what it is that you're doing, being able to observe and understand." "You do the same in business. You're able to make greater and greater strides. It all comes down to being able to trust one another, to believe another." "What I found out in writing the book was that we had more ownership. People of color had more ownership in property and in businesses after slavery than they do today." "Your convictions must rule and guide you... You think about everyone else in your squad, everyone else in your platoon." "You have to count the cost... You have to understand what it is that you have to do, what it's going to require of you and others around you, and then you're going to have to be committed to that." "So in business, it doesn't matter if you're black or if you're white. It doesn't matter. You have certain principles and fundamentals that must be followed and adhered to." "You must be understanding and give respect in all situations." "Responsibility is a choice... We learn from the things that we have experienced in the past." "Leave a positive impact on someone else... make the world a better place." "You must coach and teach as you go... gently guide you in the correct direction." "Every person matters and makes a contribution."   These are the books mentioned     Resources Mentioned The Leadership Podcast | Sponsored by | Rafti Advisors. LLC | Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC | Solomon R.C. Ali’s Website | Solomon R.C. Ali’s LinkedIn | Solomon R.C. Ali’s Facebook | Solomon R.C. Ali’s Twitter | Solomon R.C. Ali’s Instagram | 

In this episode of The Leadership Podcast, Jim and Jan discuss stress, emphasizing the importance of recognizing and dealing with it. They highlight the disconnect between leaders and employees in understanding stress levels and the impact of work-related stress. They also mention the need for autonomy among younger workers. The harmful effects of stress, such as high blood pressure and cardiovascular disease, are mentioned. Jim and Jan suggest that leaders should adopt a coaching model and prioritize self-care to reduce stress. They emphasize the importance of recognizing stress in others and avoiding the addiction to busyness. Taking time for physical exertion and viewing stress as productive when acknowledged but not dwelled upon are mentioned.      Key Takeaways [01:47] Jim and Jan discuss the topic of stress and its significance in leadership. They highlight the need to recognize stress, explore its importance, and discuss how to deal with it. [03:23] Jim and Jan mentions the Gallup survey on worldwide employee engagement, which reveals that only 23% of employees are engaged at work. They discuss the impact of managing by spreadsheet and the need for leaders to change the way people are managed.  [05:05] They talk about the traditional office environment where people work in cubicles, emphasizing that it becomes their comfort zone. They contrast this with being out of the cube and the challenges it presents in terms of managing stress. [12:08] Jim and Jan explain the importance for leaders to recognize the stress response in others before they even recognize it themselves. They discuss observing changes in behavior and interaction patterns as indicators of stress. [14:13] Jim and Jan share their personal experiences with stress and workload management. They discuss the importance of setting realistic goals, avoiding over-scheduling, and the benefits of stress-induced productivity. They also touch on the role of procrastination in managing stress. [19:25] Jim and Jan discuss the role of leaders in managing stress and creating a supportive work environment. They emphasize the need for leaders to focus on their team's needs and effectiveness rather than prioritizing their own desires. [27:04] Closing quote: Remember, the greatest weapon against stress is our ability to choose one thought over another.  — William James   Quotable Quotes "Burned out is the extreme of stress. It's like an outcome of stress not handled." "Just because the leader doesn't feel stressed doesn't mean the followers aren't stressed." "55% of Americans are stressed during the day, and the age group it hits the most is 18 to 33." “Leaders should take a Hippocratic oath to do no harm.” “As a leader, it's important for us to recognize the stress response in others before maybe they even recognize it." "Being a bad boss is more than being a bad person or a good person. It's about being effective with your time and being respectful of your team." "Let's all try to be better bosses, better leaders, so that we can not stress our people out as much." "The greatest weapon against stress is our ability to choose one thought over another." - William James   Resources Mentioned The Leadership Podcast | Sponsored by | Rafti Advisors. LLC | Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC |  

Glenn Poulos is the author of “Never Sit in the Lobby: 57 Winning Sales Factors to Grow a Business and Build a Career Selling.” Glenn shares his experience and successful strategies in the profession of sales. Glenn emphasizes the importance of face-to-face interactions with customers and building relationships. He believes that technology may enhance certain aspects of sales but does not replace fundamental principles like active listening and behaving appropriately with customers. Glenn also discusses common mistakes made in sales, such as relying too heavily on virtual sales models post-pandemic, instead of engaging directly with clients. He provides insights into understanding a customer's position in their decision-making process and stresses the significance of personal visits to establish rapport.     Key Takeaways [03:10] Glenn said that certain aspects of sales have remained consistent over time, such as the importance of building relationships with customers. [06:40] He emphasizes the importance of fundamental principles in sales, such as getting in front of customers, acting professionally, staying engaged, and providing a positive customer experience. These principles have remained relevant and effective over time, as evidenced by their application in the author's own company.  [08:19] Glenn also discusses one of the biggest mistakes in sales and negotiation is over-reliance on virtual platforms, neglecting the value of in-person interactions and building relationships with customers. Focusing on the client's needs and improving their lives should be a priority. [18:34] He shares that when storytelling in a sales setting, it is important to start with a "punch" to capture the audience's attention and create a break in their psyche. This can be achieved through various techniques such as playing a video, making a sound, or using other attention-grabbing methods.  [23:37] He told us the importance of working hard and investing time and effort into honing their skills. Sales can be highly rewarding when approached with dedication and commitment as attraction plays a significant role in sales, and behaving in an attractive manner is essential for building connections with customers.  [29:29] He said that organizations often face challenges in effectively selecting prospects and determining the best approach to engage them at the top of the sales funnel and there is a need to differentiate between marketing and selling, with the focus being on salespeople actively engaging with customers rather than getting involved in the marketing aspects of prospect selection and approach. [32:57] In smaller organizations, where there isn't a clear separation between marketing and sales roles, Glenn directly stated that individuals must allocate their time effectively between prospecting, engaging with customers, and following up.  [40:07] He discusses that sales management requires a different skill set, and it is important to have managers who understand the tools and strategies of the trade, even if they may not be the strongest in customer-facing roles.  [48:42] He emphasizes that non-sales leaders need to understand and support the salesperson's role as the vital link in the company's success. Salespeople are like performers on a stage, and their unique personalities and capabilities require support and recognition. [51:34] Closing quote: Remember, ”Sales are contingent upon the attitude of the salesperson, not the attitude of the prospect.” – W. Clement Stone   Quotable Quotes “The biggest and most important deals I find are done face to face with the customer and toe toe with the competition.”   “One of the other rules of the 57 is always have something in your hand and something in your mind.”   “The tighter time you give these customers, the more likely they are to look at your product in a timely manner.”   “Sales is kind of like when you work hard, it's one of the easiest ways to make a lot of money.”   “You need to be figuring out ways to demonstrate yourself and your product in its best possible light without being braggadocious or sort of arrogant in any way.”   “If you're waiting for the leads to just fall in your lap or people's phones to ring, that's not going to work.”   “You only get forever to make another impression.”   ”Sales are contingent upon the attitude of the salesperson, not the attitude of the prospect.” – W. Clement Stone   These are the books mentioned by Glenn   Resources Mentioned The Leadership Podcast | Sponsored by | Rafti Advisors. LLC | Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC | Glenn Poulos LinkedIn | Glenn Poulos Website | Glenn Poulos Instagram | Glenn Poulos Twitter | Glenn Poulos Facebook | 

Nate Boyer, a Former Army Green Beret and football player, discusses his attraction to challenges, pushing oneself to the limit, and the importance of growth through setbacks. In this episode, he shares a personal story about auditioning for a TV show and recognizing different perspectives. Nate talks about his nonprofit work with Merging Vets and Players (MVP), helping veterans and athletes find their identity post-career. The concept of deliberate discomfort and the desire for relevance are explored. He also mentions Water Boys, an organization providing clean water wells in Tanzania. The impact of clean water availability, benefits to communities, and the significance of leadership qualities.     Key Takeaways [03:52] Nate Boyer emphasizes the tough nature of various fields, such as being an elite athlete, a Green Beret, or an actor and the desire to compete at the highest level and the experience of competition from a young age create a strong attraction. Nate finds the process of putting in hard work, practice, and dedication towards a goal, regardless of winning or losing, immensely fulfilling.   [07:38]Nate reflects on the open but unyielding door, symbolizing the constant possibility of success despite the lack of opportunities. He believes that part of his drive comes from a place of insecurity, wanting to prove himself and overcome feelings of not being good enough. [12:09] He said that setbacks create space for pursuing something that may have been put on hold or exploring new dreams and aspirations and it’s essential to open up and listen to the universe, allowing new possibilities to emerge. Embracing this perspective can lead to finding new paths and opportunities for personal fulfillment. [15:10] Nate stated that letting go of attachment to the outcome and understanding that it's not about you personally can help navigate the ups and downs of such subjective industries and stay resilient and focus on honing your skills and pursuing opportunities where your unique abilities and vision align with the right fit. [20:06] Nate talks about MVP, where he co-founded along with Jay Glazer, the nonprofit organization Merging Vets and Players (MVP) in 2015. He said that MVP aims to support both military veterans and professional athletes who often face challenges when transitioning out of their respective fields. [26:45] He talks about how the transition to a new phase is becoming necessary, but it can be challenging to let go of the familiar and find new avenues to feel alive and fulfilled. As people grow older, they may encounter these feelings in various aspects of their lives, such as transitioning away from a beloved activity like football. [34:53] Nate shares that the most impactful and rewarding work he's been involved in is the Water Boys initiative started by Chris Long. This work has brought clean and accessible water to numerous communities, improving their quality of life and health. He also shares that being a part of this initiative and witnessing the positive change it brings has been incredibly rewarding for him. [36:44] Closing quote: Remember, ”A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives.” – Jackie Robinson   Quotable Quotes “It's nice to sort of push yourself to the limit physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually, and see how far you can go.”   “Sometimes we do things, we make mistakes, and we suffer the consequences.”   “You can restart a whole new sector of your life.”   “It's time to open your aperture back up and listen to the universe a little bit.”   “Veteran community is often really struggling. A lot of times they're struggling not just with the loss of identity and uniform, but the loss of people or feeling like they didn't do enough and they should have done more and they could have saved more.”   “Jump off that curve where you're declining and get on a curve where you're improving.”   “When it's time to make a decision, as a leader, you have to make a decision.”    ”A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives.” – Jackie Robinson   Resources Mentioned: The Leadership Podcast | Sponsored by | Rafti Advisors. LLC | Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC | Nate Boyer’s LinkedIn | Nate Boyer’s Website | Nate Boyer’s Instagram | Nate Boyer’s Twitter | 

Kim "KC" Campbell, a former fighter pilot and author of "Flying in the Face of Fear: A Fighter Pilot's Lessons on Leading with Courage." In this episode, Kim discusses a mission during Operation Iraqi Freedom, and the importance of teamwork and staying calm despite chaos. Campbell emphasizes the value of listening to others' stories, making tough decisions as a leader, empowering team members, and supporting veterans. She also highlights the significance of adaptability and facing fears with courage.   Key Takeaways [03:43] Kim discusses her experience as an Air Force Academy graduate and her mission during Operation Iraqi Freedom where she received the Distinguished Fine Cross for heroism. Kim emphasizes the importance of teamwork, mutual support, and staying calm during crises as a leader. [15:47] Kim, a former pilot and leader in the military, emphasizes the importance of listening to stories and learning from others' experiences. She credits listening to fellow pilots' war stories for her success during a crucial moment when she had to fly using a backup emergency system. [21:44] She also talks about the challenges of having difficult conversations as a leader. Adaptability is a key competency that can be learned, and Kim encourages leaders to be flexible and responsive to changing circumstances. Lastly, Kim discusses her passion for supporting veterans during their transition into civilian life and believes in offering them support and opportunities because of their tremendous value in solving complex problems and leading teams. [27:56] Kim also discusses the importance of trust and resilience in teams, and how stories can help build these qualities. [31:50] She reflects on her experience establishing a center for Character and Leadership Development, which aimed to teach character and leadership skills through real-life examples and stories. [37:45] Kim shares her experience writing letters every week to get accepted into the military academy, highlighting the importance of persistence and creativity in achieving goals [39:57] She encourages leaders to take action in the face of fear and to stay flexible and adaptable in challenging situations. [41:26] Closing quote: Remember, “When everything seems to be going against you, remember that the airplane takes off against the wind, not with it. ” —  Henry Ford   Quotable Quotes "Sometimes failures do turn into positive things as well."   "It doesn't happen alone...It is a true team effort."   "Create a wingman culture...understand the role that you play on a team."   "There's so much benefit in listening and learning from stories."   "Recognize your shortfalls and get better at asking for help."   "Teach people to think outside the box and be flexible."   "Sometimes the standard rules and procedures don't apply, and we need to be flexible."   "We all face fear in our lives. It may not be flying a fighter jet in combat, but it's fear of failure. It's fear of not meeting expectations. It's fear of not being good enough. And we cannot let that fear drive us. We have to still be able to step up and take action and have courage to face those fears."   "When everything seems to be going against you, remember that the airplane takes off against the wind, not with it." - Henry Ford   These are the books mentioned in our discussion with Kim   Resources Mentioned The Leadership Podcast | Sponsored by | Rafti Advisors. LLC | Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC | Kim Campbell’s LinkedIn | Kim Campbell’s Website | Kim Campbell’s Twitter |  

Alan Shortt is an executive communication coach, motivational speaker, Emcee, host and founder of Media Skills Ireland. Alan shares his expertise on avoiding boredom in leadership, creating emotional excitement, and the art of engaging communication. He emphasizes the importance of curiosity, facial expressions, and connecting with the audience. We also explore leadership performance, storytelling, and Alan's background as a comedian. Tune in for valuable insights and entertaining impressions of notable politicians!     Key Takeaways [05:33] Alan discusses the intriguing topic of avoiding being boring in leadership roles and the significance of creating emotional excitement within others.  [06:25] Alan brings a unique perspective to the table, drawing from his experiences as a stand-up comedian, boxer, and a seasoned speaker. [11:11] Alan shares his insights on the importance of curiosity and engagement in communication, particularly in the realm of media skills. He explains that everyone is now a TV presenter and emphasizes the need to connect with the audience through engagement on screen, using facial muscles, smiling, and looking at the camera. [18:27] Moving on to leadership performance, Alan highlights the vital role of vision and innovation in effectively communicating a leader's message.  [23:05] He provides valuable advice on preparing for public speaking engagements, stressing the significance of practicing out loud, actively listening to one's own voice, and constructing a repertoire of personal stories that can be used to navigate unexpected situations. [27:35] The discussion also touches upon the use of lies versus facts as motivational tools and the importance of authenticity in storytelling. Alan offers glimpses into his past as a comedian, highlighting how his experiences in comedy inform his work as a communication coach. [30:31] As the conversation unfolds, Alan delves into the art of storytelling, exploring the cultural nuances between Irish and American traditions. He shares an engaging personal anecdote about motivating someone during a challenging cycling expedition in France.  [36:12] And just to spice things up, he treats us to some impressive impressions of renowned politicians, including Barack Obama and Michael G. Higgins. [44:17] Closing quote: Be not afraid of discomfort. If you can't put yourself in a situation where you are uncomfortable, then you will never grow, you will never change, and you will never learn. — Jason Reynolds.   Quotable Quotes "Get comfortable with being uncomfortable."   "Don't be boring."   "A leader needs to be visionary."   "Create emotional excitement within other people."   "Don't be boring, be curious, because the more curious you are, that's what leads to excitement."   "Curiosity leads to creativity, leads to innovation."   "To be engaging on screen, you need to learn how to be engaging on screen. You need to learn how to use your facial muscles. You need to learn how to smile. You need to learn how to connect with the camera."   “Storytelling is the ability to make something that may not be truly factual into a beautiful truth.”   Resources Mentioned The Leadership Podcast | Sponsored by | Rafti Advisors. LLC | Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC | Alan Shortt in LinkedIn | Media Skills Ireland Website | Alan Shortt in Facebook | Alan Shortt in Twitter | Alan Shortt in Instagram | Media Skills Ireland in YouTube | 

Mark A. Mears, keynote speaker and author of “The Purposeful Growth Revolution - Four Ways to Grow From Leader Legacy Builder,” discusses the importance of conscious capitalism. He emphasizes the importance of accountability beyond numbers, using the LEAF model (Leadership, Engagement, Accountability, Fulfillment). He shares his personal experience leading a turnaround and introduces the concept of paying it backward. He also suggests replacing annual performance appraisals with purposeful growth plans.         Key Takeaways [02:21] Mark Mears talks about his involvement in Conscious Capitalism and how businesses can make a positive difference in the world through purposeful growth. [06:06] He explains his LEAF model (Leadership, Engagement, Accountability, Fulfillment) and emphasizes the importance of accountability beyond just focusing on numbers by breaking down goals into lead and lag measures. He also stresses the need for transparency and engagement to build trust within teams. [10:26] Mark emphasizes the importance of identifying the right metrics for a business. He introduces the concept of "think, feel, do, and relate" as the four outcomes to consider.  [18:27] Mark shares a career failure that led to an epiphany for his book concept, emphasizing the importance of fulfillment in achieving growth and success.  He shares his personal experience of leading a turnaround for a restaurant chain but being let go after achieving success. This led him to develop the concept of paying it backward, which involves creating a nurturing environment where people feel valued and empowered to be their best selves. [28:00] Mark discusses the importance of understanding who you serve and how it leads to your motivation, superpowers, role on a team, and key metrics of performance. He suggests that leaders should act as coaches rather than managers and focus on personal growth plans for each team member. Mark advises listeners to learn how to love by listening, observing, valuing, and empowering others in their career.  [31:12] Mark also talks about the need for leaders to communicate clearly and listen better in order to align different perspectives towards common goals. He suggests replacing annual performance appraisals with purposeful growth plans that consider all four sub-brands (personal, internal, external, employer) for an organization's success. [38:22] Closing quote: No legacy is so rich as honesty. — William Shakespeare   Quotable Quotes "I don't want to just make money and retire. I want to make a difference and inspire."    "Businesses actually have the resources to help make a positive, lasting difference in the world."   "Necessity is the mother of invention."   "LEAF (Leadership, Engagement, Accountability, Fulfillment) is a symbol of growth and rebirth."   "Those of us who are great doers tend to get promoted and now we have to learn how to be leaders."   "We could do better in creating a more humanistic environment."   "Bringing love into the workplace. Listen, Observe, Value, and Empower."   "Until the robots or the zombies or chat GPT takes us away, we're all still human beings and we need to be treated like one."   "Being clear on what we stand for is important and having a clear understanding of where each of our team members are coming from."   "Your how represents your gifts or the role you play on the team to create maximum value."   "No legacy is so rich as honesty." - William Shakespeare.   These are the books mentioned in our discussion with Mark     Resources Mentioned Sponsored by | Rafti Advisors. LLC | Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC | Mark Mears on LinkedIn | Mark Mears Website | Episode Mentioned: 

Dan Horwich, a ‘Pay It Forward’ executive and President and Executive Director of CAMP IT Conferences, shares his philosophy on building meaningful relationships. In this episode, Dan emphasizes the importance of leading with kindness and empathy, as well as making introductions for others without expecting anything in return. As an expert networker, he provides valuable insights and advice for transitioning veterans. Dan encourages listeners to focus on helping others and emphasizes the significance of surrounding themselves with a network of good people. Furthermore, he stresses the importance of approaching human interactions with a kind and gentle spirit, highlighting the positive impact it can have on both personal and professional relationships.     Key Takeaways [03:36] Dan shares a powerful and personal story that influences his approach to networking. He recounts how his grandfather's life is saved during the Holocaust through a compassionate act of networking. This experience deeply impacts Dan, leading him to prioritize gratitude and helping others. It reinforces his existing networking practices but also prompts him to move faster and consider how he can assist those he meets. [08:05] Dan discusses the importance of relationship networking and serving others without expecting anything in return. He advises focusing on giving rather than getting and emphasizes the happiness and influence that come from helping others. He introduces a four-bucket rule for networking and encourages surrounding oneself with kind and coachable individuals. Dan emphasizes proactive networking and making quality introductions for others to build a strong network. [12:10] In our discussion, Dan emphasizes the importance of giving as much as you receive in networking and mentorship. He acknowledges that not everyone may reciprocate, but they focus on appreciating the introductions they receive. By constantly making introductions, they build relationships and expand their network. Despite occasional frustration, joy and personal growth outweigh any negative feelings. [14:11] Dan emphasizes the importance of attitude and emotional intelligence for successful tech leaders. He highlights resilience, humility, and a giver's mindset as key qualities. Dan encourages building relationships and treating others with respect. He cautions against closed-mindedness and stresses the need to understand the business value of technology. Building rapport and trust with business leaders is essential in the tech industry. [18:43] For Dan, around 10 to 20% of tech leaders truly excel in their roles, exhibiting qualities such as emotional intelligence, empathy, and open-mindedness. However, there is ample room for improvement and growth among the majority. Success in tech leadership is determined by factors like business partnerships, personal survival, and the esteem held by their team. It's important to recognize that not everyone brings their best selves to work due to personal challenges. [20:50] Dan highlights the importance of understanding between sell-side and     buy-side attendees. He coaches sponsors to see attendees as humans first, considering their personal concerns and goals. By enabling and empowering others, meaningful relationships are formed. Dan advises attendees to recognize sellers as potential networking resources for career growth. Mutual sensitivity and respect foster successful interactions. [23:56] During the discussion, Dan shared his approach to understand sellers and buyers' needs.  [26:17] When asked what advice he would give to his 25-year-old self, Dan emphasizes the importance of surrounding oneself with good humans, making logical decisions, and focusing on substantive matters instead of superficial achievements. Dan highlights the significance of kindness and integrity in building successful and fulfilling relationships. He also shares stories of questionable advice he received, urging the importance of maintaining integrity even at the cost of personal gain. [31:42] Dan discusses how his perspective on a good life has evolved over time. He emphasizes the importance of impacting others, enabling their success, and surrounding himself with good people. He contrasts the temporary happiness from material possessions with the lasting fulfillment that comes from helping others. According to him, “A good life involves achieving personal goals while prioritizing relationships, health, and gratitude.” [35:26] Dan  provides a challenge to listeners to help others amid tough times. He advises shifting focus from negativity to making introductions and checking in on people. By assisting positive individuals, one can find joy and opportunities. Dan encourages daily check-ins with two or three people, fostering a supportive network and improving personal circumstances. [38:04] Closing quote: In the long run, the sharpest weapon of all is a kind and gentle spirit. — Anne Frank   Quotable Quotes “It's about giving, not about getting."   "You do it without expectation... The more your heart compounds with happiness, the more you build a sphere of influence and a sphere of kindness."    "You should always be making introductions for other people, quality introductions, good humans. Because as you do that, you then become the sphere of influence. And then people, by their very nature, whether they feel indebted or not, they're still going to want to help you."    "The frustration is outweighed by the joy. So when you're able to give so much, you end up becoming a lot happier."   "Attitude over aptitude over technical aptitude."   "The best tech leaders that I know are resilient, humble, and have a giver's mindset."   "If you show the attendees how they can get promoted, you build a connection. It's not about the message you want to give them, it's about the message that they're going to receive."   "It's just understanding where people are at, what's important to them. And if you connect those dots, then you build a connection."   "You shouldn't go out there to impress people. You should go out there to enable and empower people."   "When both sides take the approach of getting to learn from each other and realize this is a human interaction, that helps."   "Surround yourself with good humans."   "Try and look through everything from a lens of logic."   "Focus on the things that are real and substantive."   "If you really want to have a happier life and a more successful, more fulfilling life, you surround yourself with good humans."   "Kindness was seen as a weakness."   "Money is important in a lot of ways, but it's not going to make you happy in tough times."   "Build a foundation of good humans and surround yourself with good humans."   "Just do it. Do it."   "A good life is the impact you have on others, on enabling others and empowering others."   "Surrounding yourselves with good humans and you're able to laugh and you help others, it goes back to that compounding of happiness."   "Good life is accomplishing certain goals."   Resources Mentioned The Leadership Podcast | Sponsored by | Rafti Advisors. LLC | Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC | Dan Horwich LinkedIn | Camp IT Conferences Website |

Jim and Jan discuss the importance of compassion and courage in having difficult conversations. They emphasize the need for empathy, mutual solutions, and bi-directional dialogue. Jim and Jan also provide tips for creating a positive environment for such discussions, including clear expectations, empathy, and core values. They highlight the impact of small actions and encourage listeners not to be neutral in situations of injustice.      Key Takeaways [02:18] Jim and Jan delve into the significance of having the courage to engage in difficult conversations. They also touch on the fear that comes with these conversations and how it can be a warning sign to address. [09:47] Jim and Jan stress the need for empathy and finding mutual solutions in these conversations instead of just pointing out problems. They also acknowledge that difficult conversations are a two-way street and require forgiveness and bi-directional dialogue to be effective. They highlight the importance of approaching tough conversations with respect, understanding, validation, active problem-solving, and follow-up. [17:33] They discuss the challenges of having difficult conversations in organizations and offer tips on how to create a more positive environment for them. This includes setting clear expectations, using empathy and questions to facilitate collaboration, and focusing on core values like kindness, honesty, fairness, discipline, curiosity, and gratitude. [23:18] The importance of running effective meetings is also discussed as a key factor in reducing the burden of excessive meetings while increasing productivity and engagement. They advise to treat people with respect and seek meaningful connections through shared values and purpose when engaging in communicating.  [28:37] Jim and Jan also give three things that you would have to remember when it comes to these tough and difficult conversations. Also, some closing thoughts for Jim and Jan about having a difficult conversation. [35:31] Closing quote: Remember, if you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor. If an elephant has its foot on the tail of a mouse and you say that you are neutral, the mouse will not appreciate your neutrality. — Desmond Tutu   Quotable Quotes "If you care enough, you'll have the courage. If you don't care, the fear will override."   "Fear is such a strong signal to our logical brain."   "I just always try to put myself in the other person's shoes. Just say, like, hey, let me just play this out. If I were to receive this message, how do I think I'd react?"   "Tough conversations can be challenging, but approaching them with empathy or spec and a focus on finding solutions can greatly improve the outcome and foster positive relationships."   "We have to take responsibility for it being misinterpreted and ensure that our intentions come across in our words and deeds."   "Difficult conversations are not one way, they're a two-way street."   "We can create a positive environment where difficult conversations aren't difficult."   "Let's not react, but let's respond with thought."   "When we let our emotions and reactions govern how we hear and address things, it doesn't serve us well."   "Difficult conversations can occur in meetings, and collaboration is important."   "What's not being said is as important as what is being said."   "Expectation setting for people is a difficult conversation."   "Put yourself in the other person's shoes and have it be a process that you're collaborating on something rather than telling."   "My three would be similar: respect, use questions to help that person self-discover, and use questions to brainstorm on possible solutions together."   "The better we get at asking really good questions I think that's the road to righteousness."   "If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor. If an elephant has its foot on the tail of a mouse and you say that you are neutral, the mouse will not appreciate your neutrality." - Desmond Tutu   Resources Mentioned The Leadership Podcast | Sponsored by | Rafti Advisors. LLC | Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC |    

Aidan Higgins is the author of "Lead from you: We need aware, authentic and emotionally intelligent leaders. Leading from their best selves."  Aidan shares his insights on the importance of self-awareness, authenticity, and emotional intelligence in modern leadership. He discusses how childhood can shape the definition of success and the value of humor in leadership. He also shares practical tips on observing oneself to detect changes in emotion or behavior and finding a balance between productivity and calmness. The episode ends with a reminder to change one's awareness of oneself in order to bring about personal growth.     Key Takeaways [00:05] Aidan Higgins, is a leadership coach at Adeo Consulting and the author of "Lead from you". He believes that personal awareness and leadership awareness are the same thing and that leaders need to be conscious of their thoughts, emotions and how they act out, so their beliefs, thoughts, and emotions become their actions.  [12:07] The conversation is about leadership and the need to adapt to changing times and technologies. There is a focus on the need for collaborative leadership rather than a top-down approach. The issue of control is also discussed, with the suggestion that some leaders need to learn to let go of control in order to achieve better outcomes. [16:10] Effective leadership is not just about having good intentions but also about understanding one's definition of success and the impact of childhood training. Many leaders strive for succes and may not even enjoy their achievements. Self-awareness is essential to achieving a balance between productivity and calmness. [20:49]  Aidan also covers the importance of work ethic and discipline in the past, the role of having fun in bonding and interjecting humor in the workplace, and the challenges that leaders face in creating a good atmosphere for their team outside of work. [33:39] Aidan talks about the importance of overcoming addiction to being busy and finding a balance between productivity and calmness, which allows for more powerful and productive work. [35:08] Aidan shares a story about a successful leader who initially resisted change but eventually embraced it and brought the whole organization along by creating posters and explaining the "why" behind the changes.  Aidan finds joy in seeing the leader's transformation and success. [40:02] According to Aidan, commitment, openness, and trust were the three independent words that allowed the team to be successful in achieving their goals. [41:50] Aidan challenges us to be more self-aware and authentic in leadership by observing one's actions and thoughts, questioning why things are done a certain way, and being mindful of self-talk. The goal is to understand oneself better to achieve personal growth and avoid being controlled by external factors. [45:43] Closing quote: Remember, what is necessary to change a person is to change his awareness of himself. — Abraham Maslow   Quotable Quotes "Control was always an illusion.” "If the pressure is on so much, or you're in an environment where you cannot fail or you cannot take a risk, you can't move forward." "Character is who you are. Reputation is what people think of you, which you have no control over." "Not everybody has good intentions." "Appropriate humor in the right place at the right time is very useful, and having a sense of humor about things and about people and all that is very helpful." "Those without a sense of humor are not liked as leaders." "The truth without compassion is cruelty." "Stop and observe yourself." "You are not your thoughts." "If you're in the middle of a fog of anxiety or depression, you're not in the present." "You can't see opportunities because you're not in the present." "Watch the self-talk as well as another good indicator of the sort of mindset you're having." "What is necessary to change a person is to change his awareness of himself."  — Abraham Maslow   Resources Mentioned The Leadership Podcast | Sponsored by | Rafti Advisors. LLC | Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC | Adeo Consulting Website| Aidan Higgins on Twitter | Aidan Higgins on LinkedIn | Adeo Consulting Facebook |    

Linguistics professor, Valerie Fridland, explores the evolution of language and offers insights on how we can use it more effectively in the workplace. From the use of filled pauses and uptalk to the gender-based biases that affect language perception, Valerie provides a fascinating look at the role of language in our lives. Also discussed are the benefits of embracing language evolution, and how it can improve communication and connection in our personal and professional lives.   Key Takeaways [01:11] Valerie Fridland, a linguistics professor and author of "Like, literally, Dude: Arguing For Good In Bad English," challenges the notion of "correct" language and encourages us to embrace language evolution. Her personal experience as a parent highlights the importance of understanding language in the real world. [03:51] Valerie talks about speech patterns and language usage, including uptalk and discourse markers. People have specific likes and dislikes when it comes to language, including certain words or phrases that they find annoying or grating. However, many of these preferences are actually based on regional dialects or historical linguistic changes and may not be as important or incorrect as people think. [14:38] Valerie talks about how filled pauses, such as "ums" and "uhs," which are typically considered to be bad public speaking habits, are actually beneficial for speakers and listeners.  [20:10] Men and women process language similarly, but societal expectations and cultural models can influence the types of language they prefer. Young women are often the initiators and spreaders of language change. Different linguistic styles exist, but it's not about gender, it's about individual preference and social roles.  [25:14] Valerie also discusses the differences in language and style between generations, genders, and ethnic groups, and how these differences can affect communication in the workplace. While it's okay to have a preferred style of communication, it's also important to come to a compromise and be open to new ideas. [35:19] Tips from Valerie that we can implement to make our workplaces more inclusive of everyone linguistically. Leaders should be aware of their own language biases and avoid making assumptions based on linguistic characteristics such as voice pitch or discourse markers. By being more inclusive of diverse linguistic styles, leaders can create a more welcoming and productive workplace for everyone. [39:19] While social media and other forms of communication may be disseminating information faster than ever before, the actual changes in language are relatively slow compared to historical changes. Additionally, Valerie discusses and gives examples of how the speed at which we speak and the perceived charisma of a speaker is a complex interplay of various factors, including speech rate, pitch, intonation patterns, and the use of vocal fry. Varying the tempo and intonational variability can contribute to charismatic speech.  [47:04] Closing quote: Remember, slang is a language that rolls up its sleeves, spits on its hands, and goes to work. — Carl Sandberg   Quotable Quotes "Language is a window into our minds and how our minds work." "Language is constantly changing and evolving, and it's a really fascinating thing to study." "We can learn a lot about our society and how we view things through our language." "The social beliefs we have about language and the linguistic reality are completely opposite." "Filled pauses, or 'UMS' and 'UZ,' are actually a superpower for speakers and listeners." "UMS are signals of hard cognitive effort, and they help us process complex information." "UMS also signals to listeners that we're not done speaking and helps with turn-taking." "Language is a tool that we use to convey our thoughts and emotions, and it's important to understand how it works." "Language is not just about communication, it's also about identity and how we perceive ourselves and others." "Candor has to be in different contexts for different reasons." “Language is fun, and amazing. Language is a connection and communication. And sometimes we forget that we're not there to be perfect speakers, we're there to be connected speakers. So focus on connection and communication. You can't go wrong.” “Slang is a language that rolls up its sleeves, spits on its hands, and goes to work.” Carl Sandberg   Resources Mentioned The Leadership Podcast | Sponsored by | Rafti Advisors. LLC | Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC | Valerie Fridland | Valerie Fridland on Twitter | Valerie Fridland on LinkedIn |

Sean Conley, Chief Learning Officer for Baker Hughes, discusses the importance of creating a people-first culture while still achieving results for your business. Sean talks about the importance of creating an environment where people want to learn and change their behavior through repetition and trial-and-error. He also touches on the challenges of our educational system and the need to create white space in calendars for growth and development amidst busy schedules. Join us as we explore the insights shared by Sean on the importance of investing in learners, fostering inclusion, and creating a culture of appreciation and effective communication.       Key Takeaways [01:02] Sean Conley, shares his 40 years of experience in learning and development, and he still finds himself passionate about what he does every day. He believes that this passion is crucial in helping others bring out the best in themselves and growing as a leader. [05:44] Sean discusses the importance of creating a learning environment where employees are given the choice to opt-in rather than being forced to participate in learning and development activities. He also discusses the importance of marketing and enticing employees to want to learn, rather than trying to push them into it.  [13:17] Sean encouraged people to pursue their interests and passions using the many available resources for learning, rather than just focusing on memorizing information. Behavior change should be the focus of learning. [15:49] Create white space for personal growth & development, focus on changing individual behavior rather than the whole organization, help people understand various ways to learn, it's about time focus not just management, recharge when needed, encourage learners to create their own white space. [18:11] Sean believes investing in frontline leaders is key for organizational success, setting habits and behaviors that follow them. Senior management should focus on developing talent rather than learning new skills, creating an ecosystem for growth and development and leaving a legacy by developing successors. [20:45] Sean talks about how an organization can't grow if its people can't grow. Growth opportunities should be given when the learners are ready. It's important to focus on behavior change and application of learning to shape an organization. [24:45] Sean answers the question, “What are we getting right and what are we getting not so right about inclusion?”. While there is progress in discussing inclusion in organizations, it's important to not only include those who are present but also consider who is not in the room and ensure everyone has a voice and is part of the dialogue.  [26:42] Sean discusses the importance of diversity of the mind in the workplace and how learning is a key part of shaping the culture of an organization. Different individuals have different learning styles and as such, learning programs need to be designed to cater to different types of learners.  [30:59] Sean agrees that leaders should start with ensuring that everyone in the tribe feels appreciated and valued for their contribution before addressing issues of belonging and inclusion. Sean also acknowledges the challenge of being a busy leader but sees it as a great reminder to prioritize appreciation in both business and personal life [35:19] Sean admits to still working on improving his communication skills and the art of telling, asking, and listening. He stresses the need to ask better questions and not simply react, but to listen intently to pull more information out. This highlights the idea that communication is an ongoing process that requires continuous improvement. [36:46]  When is it okay to break the rules?According to Sean, “Rules are just made up by people and they're made up at a time. So sometimes (it's not really) I won't say break(ing) the rules, but we get to question them sometimes.” [40:41] Closing quote: And remember, “He who learns but does not think is lost. He who thinks but does not learn is in great danger.” -  Confucius   Quotable Quotes "By investing in yourself and by growing yourself, you actually show up better for your customers." "Learning comes with behavior change." “Getting your brain going and learning something is better than none." "It's not time management, it's time focus." "Learning environment is part of how you shape a culture in an organization."  “Be courageous. It's the only place left uncrowded.” - Anita Roddick Resources Mentioned The Leadership Podcast | Sponsored by | Rafti Advisors. LLC | Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC | Sean Conley on LinkedIn | Baker Hughes Website | Baker Hughes on LinkedIn | Baker Hughes on Twitter |  

Stephen Drum, retired Navy SEAL master chief and author of "Life on the X: A Navy SEAL’s Guide to Meeting Any Challenge with Courage, Confidence, and Readiness", discusses the values and commitments necessary for effective leadership. This is Steve’s second time as a guest on The Leadership Podcast, and in this episode he discusses the importance of being authentic in one's values and purpose along with the significance of focusing on the basics to achieve success. The use of After Action Reviews (AARs) is also highlighted as a way to continuously improve performance by identifying opportunities for growth. Join us as we dive deeper into this conversation about leadership, feedback, and the application of military principles to business leadership.   Key Takeaways [04:26] Stephen Drum talks about the meaning behind the title of his book "Life on the X.” The X represents the critical point of execution on a combat mission, the most dangerous and difficult point. By preparing and training for this point, success can be achieved in less dangerous situations.  [06:38] The first section of the book discusses commitment, values, purpose, attributes, and character.  [09:53] Stephen believes leaders need to focus on the basics, being crystal clear on the desired end state and checking for comprehension. They caution against getting too caught up in technology and processes before identifying the necessary resources for a project or endeavor. [12:40] Stephen believes that brilliant basics consist of giving resources, setting clear expectations and accountability, and coaching depending on an individual's skills and experience. He also emphasizes the importance of contingency planning and emotional control.  [24:48] Stephen explains that the concept of After Action Reviews (AARs) depends on the position and organization, but some clients gravitate towards it while others are focused on the production and don't have time. Steve suggests making the process efficient and identifying opportunities to leverage the experience. Steve finds that clients embrace this approach. [27:20] During a meeting with a client, Stephen realized the client's note-taking gave him confidence they would follow through on the discussed actions. He believes taking notes is important in memorializing information and it helps people remember and take things seriously.  [30:30] Stephen also talks about the challenges of giving effective feedback. Research shows that feedback is often not as effective as we think because people tend to get defensive and blame others or misremember. As a leader, it's important to give future-focused, succinct feedback that only addresses things that can be changed.  [34:16] Stephen explains feedback in the military serves different purposes, such as accountability and documentation, but can also be used to replicate the stress of combat. The military also practices intrusive leadership, which involves getting into people's personal lives to provide support and resources.  [38:14] Stephen reflects on how in special operations, there are peaks and troughs, whereas in the business world, it's go time all the time, and without self-care, burnout is inevitable.  [40:55] People tend to push too hard and can't keep up that pace. Separating work and family can be healthy for some, but for others, it's better to have a more intense focus on work or other activities. In the military, there's no time off during a deployment, and even holidays are not completely free of work. In the business world, it's important to find ways to foster creativity and give employees a break from the grind of their daily work.  [42:29] Identify their next big moment or key opportunity and develop an architecture for success, which aligns with the theme of his book. [43:36] Closing quote: Remember, “You will never do anything in this world without courage. It is the greatest quality of the mind, next to honor. ” —  Aristotle   Quotable Quotes "As the leader, you have to be crystal clear on the desired end state." "We sometimes give into or fall prey to the allure of technology or certain sexy processes." "You're engaging more parts of your brain when you want to memorize something." "If it's serious and important enough, you're going to take the time to put pen to paper." "Feedback is not nearly as effective as you think it is, or that you need it to be." "If you're receiving feedback and it basically could be construed as negative or overly constructive, you're going to get defensive." "Identify what your next big moment or key opportunity is and figure out how you're going to develop the architecture for success." "A lot of people want to work from home, but for many people, it's healthy to have a separation, to go to work and be focused on that and then come home and focus just on that."  "The mind, body, soul is critical. The body piece, rest, nutrition, physical activity, how that contributes to emotions and cognitive ability." Resources Mentioned The Leadership Podcast | Sponsored by | Rafti Advisors. LLC | Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC | Stephen Drum | Stephen Drum on LinkedIn | Stephen Drum on Facebook | Stephen Drum on Instagram |  

With his unique brand of edgy leadership, Dr. Todd Dewett is one of the most in-demand keynote speakers in the world, an internationally sought-after expert, a four-time TEDx speaker, and has been quoted in TIME, The New York Times, Bloomberg, Business Week, Forbes, CNN, and many more outlets. He is the author of “Dancing With Monsters, a Tale About Leadership, Success, and Overcoming Fears.” In this interview, Todd talks about the challenges of work including: facing our fears to build confidence; the generational challenges, boundaries, and when quitting should be considered. Listen in to hear how to deal with your mistakes, how to find “fit,” and the importance of outside counsel.       Key Takeaways   [1:56] Todd’s bio. (See at the end of the show notes.) Todd comes to The Leadership Podcast through a mutual friend, Dean Karrel; both are phenomenal LinkedIn Learning instructors. Todd and Jan share a publisher. [3:29] Todd is a proud father of two; a sophomore in high school and a sophomore in college. They’re the best thing he’s ever done. Todd and his wife are besties and business partners. She is going through a battle with cancer and they don’t know what’s going to happen. Todd strives to understand it and be useful to her as she tries to beat this thing. [5:25] Todd likes most to speak about universal experiences; to take a thing we all know and give it a fresh perspective. Wanting to quit is a universal experience. Is it bad or good? It depends. Giving up too easily is a problem for some people. But quitting isn’t simply bad. It can be strategically very useful. If something is not working out, it may be time to stop investing in it to invest in something better. [7:58] If fear is common at work it may be due to a poor culture or poor managers. But even in great work cultures, fear of what to say and how to act in a new situation is wired into us. We want to please people and be liked. Fear at work is an important topic to explore. Work is affecting people’s physical and mental health in ways that are not productive. We need to learn how to mitigate the experience of fear. [10:33] Fear can manifest as indecision. We walk through a large system of interlocking expectations from ourselves, our parents, our partners, our peers, our supervisors, others at work, and our family. We don’t always know how to navigate it successfully. Sometimes it’s indecision, sometimes it’s rash poor decision-making, and sometimes it’s overreaching. [11:03] What is the reasonable, measured way to deal with that normal anxiety we feel in the middle of all those expectations? Good coaching and some thought will get you through that. The real problem is people who haven’t done the work to narrow down the possibilities and don’t know what their career goal is at all so they defer the decision to someone else. [12:31] Todd delivered a TEDx talk at Texas A&M, long after his Ph.D. there. It was based on his experiences as an employee and a professor, that lots of people love to talk about creativity and innovation but the gap between the concepts and the practice of embracing them is enormous. When people innovate or tweak a process, they receive pushback and criticism. Change may be seen as a threat. [14:28] Confidence is both a personality trait and a skill that can be built over time. Todd recommends the repetition of engaging these risks and learning from them in an environment that is supportive of innovation. People like Todd have a job because much of what people do doesn’t naturally mesh with their environments. They don’t fit without some effort. [16:21] The pandemic accelerated thinking about these issues and it came at a time of a generational shift we’ve never seen. There are five generations represented in the workforce. The definition of success is slowly shifting toward what makes the employee happy and find purpose, more than what others think. [16:49] The Great Resignation and Quiet Quitting seem to support that shift. Millennials and Zs do have different professional values in terms of wanting to be a partner and be heard rather than being subordinate and following orders. They want more leisure but also want to feel more purpose than earlier generations. People respond fantastically well when they believe they are heard. [18:26] The key to “fit” is objectively getting the skills that you need to do the work you want to do, and finding people that you enjoy, no matter the thing you’re working on. The skills and the people both feed into your experience of “fit.” [19:36] Todd agrees that there is both a corporate responsibility and a personal responsibility to provide meaning to work. He says, “Never believe the simple narrative.” Millennials and Zs find it shocking that when starting a job, it is important to learn the norms, the rules, the expectations, and what it takes to be a top performer there, before demanding to be heard. It goes both ways. [22:19] People are aging out of the labor force faster than workers are entering it. Jobs have changed over the last 30 years. We lost many jobs and replaced them with service jobs. It may be harder to find purpose and alignment with a low-paying service job than it did with a high-paying manufacturing job. [23:54] No one’s perfect all the time. We have moods, moments, and external factors that impact us. Even on our best days, we’re imperfect. One of the themes in Dancing with Monsters is that “You’re wonderfully imperfect but still perfectly capable of doing amazing things.” Talk about it more than less. It leads to empathy, authenticity, and vulnerability. [24:21] The world of our fathers and grandfathers placed an uncrossable line between the personal and professional. There are some holes in the wall now, but it hasn’t come down. Humans want to have authentic human connections that are meaningfully fulfilling. But instead, we put on a polished, professional version of ourselves that we hope will keep us out of trouble and maybe even get us ahead. [25:04] You don’t have to hide. Most people through conversation can make teams meaningfully better. We need to be validated a little more, understood a little more, and be better listeners. We learn that everybody’s imperfect, and that’s OK. The key to great teams isn’t finding the best talent, but talent is still required. The key is chemistry and getting the best joint performance out of the people that you do have. [26:45] Leaders are sometimes going to go too far. It’s normal. What do they do to show vulnerability? Don’t run from it. Own that. If apologies or statements are needed, make them sooner than later. But first, assume you do not see yourself and the situation perfectly. Find people who have insights into what just happened and ask them for their insights. They see you differently than you see yourself. [27:25] Take time to think about a path forward for using the error to make yourself better. Todd shares a story of embarrassing himself as a young professional speaker by bombing onstage in front of thousands of people. He used it as an opportunity to check his emotions, step back, examine the things he did wrong, and make a plan to fix them and not repeat the same mistakes. He used it to make himself better. [29:02] Writing a monster story is unusual in the leadership space. It came from a mistake! Two years ago, for the third time, Todd wrote a novel, and “It was not good.” He is done trying to scratch that itch! The story involved a vampire in an office and he still loved the idea. After thinking about Patrick Lencioni and others, Todd got excited about a fable and started writing his book. Six hours later, he had the first draft. [30:49] Whatever your generation may be, the “more” that you search should be defined by you, whether it’s just about work, or larger issues in life, Todd still says, “More is always possible.” [32:32] Millennials and Zs have seen all kinds of financial adversity. No one understands success without understanding failure. Todd says he had so many big, fat, ugly failures in his career, it’s hilarious! If you have one or two moderate successes people think good things about you. It’s the halo effect. Todd loves talking about failures.   [35:02] Leaders want to be aspirational but sometimes don’t live the values. The gap between rhetoric and reality causes a massive cultural problem in organizations. Todd promotes more realism with high levels of candor and kindness. When employees make mistakes, discuss the mistakes with kindness and candor and admit your own mistakes. With kindness and candor, you can deal with reality a lot better. [37:27] We’re not great at understanding ourselves or others as much as we think we are. Outside counsel is essential in any success story, for sure! Growth starts when you leave your comfort zone. That’s just a truism. Allow your boss and allow yourself to push yourself, into areas that make you a little uncomfortable. That’s where growth comes from. [38:49] Todd’s closing thoughts: “Having what it takes to become an effective leader and finding success in your career, is not about what you’re born with, it’s about the skills that you build. And with the right effort and the right people around you, any of us can find those things and build those things. It is within our reach. I love sharing that with people.”  [39:37] Closing quote: Remember, “I have learned over the years that when one’s mind is made up, this diminishes fear; knowing what must be done does away with fear.” — Rosa Parks   Quotable Quotes “Proud father of two; I’ve got a sophomore in high school and a sophomore in college and they’re the best thing I’ve ever done, no matter how much I might talk about a book or a course.” “Lots of people, if not everyone, love to talk about creativity and innovation but the gap between the allure of those concepts and the practice of embracing them is enormous beyond words!” “We tend to see people respond … tremendously well when they believe they’re being listened to. … The research suggests that teams and organizations tend to respond a lot better.” “The key to ‘fit’ is objectively trying to go find the skills that you need to do the work that you want to do. That’s Part 1 but Part 2 really is finding people that you enjoy no matter the thing you’re working on.” “Most people through conversation can make teams meaningfully better. … We just need to be validated a little more, understood a little more, and be better listeners.” “The key to great teams isn’t finding the best talent, although talent, of course, must be present. The key is chemistry and getting the best interlocking performance out of the people that you do have. That’s chemistry, and it tends to be a better predictor of success than just base-level talent.” “Growth starts when you leave your comfort zone. … Allow your boss and allow yourself to push yourself, performance-wise, into areas that start to make you a little uncomfortable. That’s where growth comes from.”   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by:      

Vitaliy Katsenelson is the CEO and Chief Investment Officer of IMA and the author of three books. His most recent book is “Soul in the Game: The Art of a Meaningful Life.” Vitaliy was born in Murmansk, Russia, and immigrated to the United States with his family in 1991. In this interview, Vitaliy contrasts his experience growing up in the Soviet Union with his experience in the United States, and how different his mindset was in each place. He also discusses how Stoic philosophy has been very helpful. He discusses how his essay about Tchaikovsky aims to help others who may be struggling with creativity. Listen in for a vibrant discussion on intention, communication, and vulnerability.     Key Takeaways   [1:53] Vitaliy’s bio. (See at the end of the show notes.) [2:22] Vitaliy loves investing, writing, classical music, and spending time with his family, Vitaliy’s father is a fantastic artist and Vitaliy has a small gallery of his work. [3:49] How Vitaliy sees the differences between Murmansk, Russia, and Denver, Colorado. Denver has lots of sunshine. In the winter, Murmansk has a few minutes of sunshine a day. When Vitaliy lived there, it was Soviet Russia. Freedom of speech and the free market did not exist in Russia. All businesses were owned by the government. Here we have an abundance of food and a lack of scarcity. [6:56] Vitaliy shares thoughts on how Russians and Americans communicate. He read How to Win Friends and Influence People when he was 18 in Russia. He hated the book and felt it was teaching him how to be fake. He read it again 20 years later and was shocked by how brilliant it is. He is re-reading it with his 17-year-old daughter and she loves it. She has an American mindset. [8:06] When Vitaliy came to the U.S. he found that  Americans are very indirect and smile all the time, contrasted with Russians who are sometimes painfully direct. Vitaly was fired from his first American job. The man firing him was smiling at him, which was a confusing signal. Vitaly fine-tuned himself to a balance between directness and indirectness. He tries not to criticize people so his message is clearly received. [9:10] If Vitaliy has a criticism, he first tries to make sure to tell the person positive things.  Then he structures the criticism as constructive feedback. He learned that from Dale Carnegie and living in the U.S. for 30 years. Vitaliy says if he had continued to communicate in the Soviet Russian style, he could not have achieved anything in the U.S. [10:43] Vitaliy’s intentionality comes from the conscious choice to be mindful. To have a work/life balance you just have to be mindful about having the balance. Vitaliy knew he wanted to be a good father to his children. He made a mindful choice to spend more time with his children. He chooses to drive his children to school before going to work on a busy day. [12:38] Vitaliy has a value to be a good father. To live up to the value he has to be mindful about being with his children. If he just went on autopilot, he would just default to the easiest things to do which for him is working 10-hour and 12-hour days. To be mindful, he stops after eight hours. When he gets home and has dinner with his kids, he’s not looking at his phone. He’s present with them, giving them attention. [14:26] To live a meaningful life, figure out exactly what you value and spend your time according to your values. [15:32] Vitaliy sees value in simplicity. [16:50] As Vitaliy was working on the last chapter of his book, he put it on pause to study and write on Stoicism. He studied Epictetus, Marcus Aurelius, and Seneca. Epictetus taught a framework that some things are up to you and some things aren’t. What is up to you are your values and how you behave. Everything else is external and is not up to you. Don’t try to control what is out of your control. [19:03] Vitaliy’s 17-year-old daughter just got her first job at a coffee shop. She finds a co-worker annoying. Vitaliy asked her if she expected every co-worker to be perfect. It’s not up to you how other people are. Vitaliy finds this framework to be simple and elegant; if you embrace the Stoic philosophy it will reduce the volatility and negativity in your life. [20:27] When he learned Stoic philosophy, Vtaliy realized he had made choices in the past unconsciously that were aligned with Stoic philosophy. Adopting Stoic philosophy intentionally has changed his life. He wrote that section of the book as much for himself as for the reader. [21:51] Every three to four months, Vitaliy sends his clients a 30-page letter in a story-telling format. As an experiment, once he sent the letter in a condensed format of brief bullet points. Eighty percent of his clients preferred the long letter. It was easier for them to read in stories than in bullet points. [23:33] You want to be very careful on the receiving side of storytelling and people who are terrific speakers. They appeal to your emotions. Stoics break down the message to its bare bones, to the bullet points. There is a conflict between Stoics and Sophists. Vitaliy acknowledges he is a Sophist in storytelling. At the same time, his values are Stoic. Sophists hijack the message and they may not have good values. [24:56] When Vitaliy encounters terrific communicators, he is very cautious to make sure the way they communicate does not impact his decision-making. [26:17] Music is an incredibly important part of Vitaliy’s life. He has written essays on the music that was important to him at any year of his life. Vitaly gets up every day at 4:30 or 5:00 and writes for two hours while listening to classical music in his headphones. Those two hours every day are very special to Vitaliy. Listening to classical music while he writes has helped his creativity tremendously. [28:07] Vitaliy’s kids made him appreciate chess. It’s one of the few games he likes playing with them. His daughter invited him to play after watching The Queen’s Gambit. After a game, they review the moves, trying to find the solution for the best move possible at any point. It makes an intellectually honest discussion. Jan notes it’s like a military after-action review (AAR). Both become better players. [30:34] Writing music is a very creative activity. When you listen to classical music, think about how difficult it was for the composer to write it. Tchaikovsky left behind many letters to his brother and his friends. His letters describe how he struggled to compose his music. Vitaliy’s book came about because he had been writing an essay about one of Tchaikovsky’s pieces of music. [31:45] Vitaliy read Tchaikovsky’s letters and realized that the suffering the composer went through was so similar to the suffering Vitaliy goes through as a writer. He wrote an essay comparing the struggles of Tchaikovsky to the struggles a creative writer goes through. [32:11] When Vitaliy finished the essay, he realized other struggling writers could be helped by reading it. Over the years, he had written many essays that could help others. So he put them together in a book. [32:45] When you study the lives of composers, you listen to music very differently. You feel the pain they felt as they were writing. You realize that you will have some very difficult times creating, and as long as you love writing, pain is just part of the journey. The lives of the composers made Vitaliy appreciate classical music so much more. There is an incredible amount of hard work, pain, and struggle in creativity. [34:52] Vitaliy finds that parenting and leadership have parallels. But leadership mistakes don’t haunt you for the rest of your life! Vitality exposes his kids to new things all the time. They watch YouTube videos on various subjects. He introduces them to new books all the time. They discuss different topics and he doesn’t talk down to them. He is interested to know what they think. [35:56] As a parent and as a leader, it’s important to be vulnerable. You admit that you don’t have all the answers. When you communicate, spend most of the time in the scientist mode. Whatever you’re looking at is a theory. You are trying to discover truth. [36:59] When you make a mistake you admit it. Then your employees will be more comfortable admitting they made mistakes as well. [37:45] Vitaliy shares a link where you can hear his podcasts and read his articles.  [38:23] Closing quote: Remember, “Do not act as if you had 10,000 years to throw away. Death stands at your elbow. Be good for something while you live and it is in your power.” — Marcus Aurelius   Quotable Quotes “If you insult a person first and then you give them a message, that message will never arrive.” “My daughter and I are reading [How to Win Friends and Influence People] together … and she loves the book!” “Being around your kids while you are reading Financial Times on your iPhone is not being around your kids. Attention is a currency of time. So it’s when I give them that attention, when I’m present, that’s very, very important.” “There is so much value in simplicity.”  “If you waste your energy trying to control things that are not up to you, you’re going to have one miserable life. You’re going to have this emotional rollercoaster of being upset.” “I would argue that if you embraced Stoic philosophy, what it does, it would just reduce the volatility; it would reduce negativity in your life. And by reducing negativity, it’s going to make your life calmer; more peaceful.” “Listening to classical music when I write has helped my creativity tremendously. Studies were done on the subject. And they … showed that when you listen to music, … it forces your left brain and right brain to work at the same time. It basically increases your creativity.” “I have found that there are a lot of parallels between being a parent and being a leader … [but] I guess if you screw up as a leader those mistakes don’t haunt you for the rest of your life.” “When you study the lives of composers, … you’re going to start listening to music very differently. You’re going to feel the pain Tchaikovsky felt when he was writing. … You’re going to appreciate as a creator that at times you’re going to have a very difficult time creating.”   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by:   Vitaliy Katsenelson Vitaliy Katsenelson is CEO and Chief Investment Officer of IMA and the author of Soul in the Game: The Art of a Meaningful Life. Vitaliy was born in Murmansk, Russia, and immigrated to the United States with his family in 1991. After joining Denver-based investment firm IMA in 1997, Vitaliy became Chief Investment Officer in 2007 and CEO in 2012. He’s an award-winning writer with two books on investing and countless articles in publications such as The Financial Times and Barron’s. Vitaliy lives in Denver with his wife and three kids where he loves to read, listen to classical music, play chess, and write about life, investing, and music. Soul in the Game is his third book and his first non-investing book.    

Steve House is Founder of Uphill Athlete and a proudly retired professional climber and mountain guide. Jan has known him for years. For 21 years, Steve was a professional climber. In 1999 he became only the ninth American to achieve IFMGA certification, which is the highest level to guide all over the world. He has guided trips all across the world. In this discussion, Steve shares his journey from mountain sports to high-altitude climbing, to a nearly fatal fall, to coaching. Besides coaching mountain athletes, his current challenge is getting his pilot’s license. Steve talks about the purposes of mountain sports and how separation from daily distractions while moving your body through nature guides you on your journey.     Key Takeaways   [1:53] Jan shares Steve’s bio. (See at the end of the show notes.) [4:19] Steve thanks Jan and Jim for the invitation to The Leadership Podcast. As a professional athlete, there’s not much that’s not in his public bio. He’s almost a private pilot and is less than a month from taking his final practical exam. He describes a recent incredible flight and the energy flying gives him. [7:09] When Steve was 20, he was studying in college to be an aeronautical engineer. Then he got hijacked by climbing. Now he has the chance to come back and do something he has always loved. [8:17] In 2010, Steve was doing a training climb preparing for an expedition to do a new route on the west face of K2 with an expert fellow climber. He had a bad fall of around 100 feet. He broke 24 ribs. Two ribs were smashed into innumerable pieces. He had multiple pelvis fractures, knocked all the spinal processes off his vertebrae, and had many internal injuries. [9:18] Steve lay on his back for about two hours. He knew he had hemopneumothorax. His breathing grew shallow as his chest cavity filled with blood. What came out of that was a lot of self-reflection. He had to come to terms with his drive to become the very best at what he did. That was his mission statement. [10:45] As Steve reflected, at age 39, he was trying to figure out if he would function again. He had to think about what his values were, and what he cared about and wanted to do. Was it time to change his mission statement? He hadn’t accomplished everything in climbing but he decided he had accomplished enough. He could be proud of what he did do, and he was going to pivot to other values and other goals. [11:57] In elite sports, you’re boxed off from the world. You eat, sleep, train, and go climb. You save all your energy to be better. It’s how you achieve individual greatness. But you’re not part of a team. Steve saw his crisis as a time to reflect and redirect. [13:48] Steve thinks that due to the intensity with which he pursued his goals, he required an intense jolt to trigger reflection. Anything less wasn’t going to work. He notes that most of the people he climbed with are dead. That’s how risky and dangerous climbing is. Steve has only a handful of friends from that era that are still alive. Steve realized he was going to join those who were no longer alive if he continued. [15:29] As a mountain sports trainer, Steve is in a position to help athletes get past the binary narrative of success or failure. There’s a much greater range of possible experiences. We have often seen that the one that came in first cheated or used performance-enhancing substances. The whole paradigm is broken. There is another way to experience sports. Mountain sports do not have a history of competition. [17:02] Steve would tell his younger self he was always going to feel like an imposter, and that was completely OK, and that everybody else does, too. That feeling was one of the things that were hardest for him to overcome. It goes back to childhood. He was the scrawny little kid that wasn’t good at sports. [18:49] One of the things that Steve learned from childhood was grit. He loved gritty experiences from a very early age. When he was 10, he backpacked his first 50-mile hike. When he was 11, he climbed Mount Hood. These were just things they did as a family or with his father. He enjoyed it. [20:37] Steve and his Uphill Athlete team talk about Campbell’s Hero’s Journey paradigm and try to figure out what step their client is on for that journey. The goal is to help them through that one step. Everyone is on the same journey, at a different step. [23:22] Uphill Athlete doesn’t exist to motivate people but to educate and inspire. Coaching is education and teaching people how they can apply endurance training methodologies and see the changes in their bodies. It takes a couple of months for people to get fully bought in and see their progress. When they get to that epiphany, they are committed to the journey for life and remain in the Uphill Athlete community. [25:17] Going back to the imposter syndrome, Steve is often surprised that he knows the answer. And the only reason he can know the answer is because he lived it through 20 years of being an athlete. These are things you cannot learn in a physiology textbook. [26:05] What holds people back is their minds, their fears, their insecurities, and the pieces that they don’t understand, or can’t conceptualize well. Those are the questions Steven can clear up easily, but he is always surprised. [27:37] Steve tried to teach a man with a Ph.D. in exercise physiology how to coach but it was impossible because he didn’t understand what it felt like in his body to do what was written on the training plan. He couldn’t relate to the people even though he’d run circles around everybody on the science. [28:27] When Steve interviews people to be coaches, he’s looking for people who have a unique superpower. He doesn’t need 15 people that all know the same thing. He needs people that have different backgrounds and experiences and are willing and eager to share with other people and also learn from them. They have to be far enough along on their journey that they can take feedback constructively. [29:17] When you have a team that can do all of those things, it’s incredible. Steve’s team includes physical therapists, medical doctors, masters in high altitude physiology, and coaches that have coached every endurance sport you can imagine. They have great energy between them. [30:29] Some people Steven hires have well-defined superpowers. Some younger people don’t know their superpower. Steven describes how he leverages coaches to develop the superpower in people within a relationship that is entirely a safe place for them to ask those “dumb questions.” [33:39] Steve has a lot of athletes that do not have a set goal. They want to learn and experience and be in a community of like-minded people. Steve tells them it’s OK not to have an Everest goal. Sometimes it’s enough to engage with people as you learn. [36:10] Arthur Brooks’s new book, From Strength to Strength, is about finding clarity in the second chapter of life. [36:47] Steve uses the phrase, “naming the uncertainty.” Write down what you don’t know. Let that sit. People come back to him in a month and say it was great to let that sink in. There are more than two chapters for a lot of people. [37:38] Mountain sports have an important role to play in people’s journeys. Being in the wilderness in small teams and overcoming obstacles lets the noise go away. So much more happens out there than we give it credit for. People are not getting pings out there moving their bodies through nature and letting their subconscious minds do the work. Steve has solved writer’s block many times with a long walk. [43:52] Steven’s final thought: “It’s joyful to learn something. It’s joyful to become fitter. It’s joyful to climb a mountain. … Walking up a summit ridge and standing on top of a mountain is ultimately no different than walking into the grocery store and going to the cereal aisle. But what is different is if you’ve been to the top of the mountain, you have an appreciation for all the rest.” [45:34] Closing quote: Remember, “People say, ‘Are you insane?’ But the most successful climbers are the most calculating, with the most refined sense of risk. They’re hyper-conscious of safety. They’re the least insane people I know.” — Jimmy Chin   Quotable Quotes “I’m almost a private pilot. … I’m less than a month away. … I just had an amazing flight. … I flew from Slovenia down into Croatia, landed on an island, … flew back to Slovenia, landed … in the mountains in Slovenia, Took off from there, and returned to the home airport.” “[After a difficult accomplishment], at the end of the day, you just feel so full of energy and experience and awe.” “In 2010, I was doing a training climb. I was preparing for an expedition to climb a new route, … and … I fell around 100 feet. I broke 24 ribs, … I had multiple pelvis fractures, … [and] internal injuries. … I lay there for about two hours. I had a hemopneumothorax.” “We don’t always need a crisis. Sometimes it just takes a long walk in the woods. But I think that reassessing our values and making sure that they align with our purpose and our mission is probably something that all of us have to do many times throughout our lives.”  “This whole thing of like, ‘If you’re not first, you’re last,’ invalidates pretty much everyone’s  experience except one person’s.” “I loved gritty experiences from a very early age.” “I’m often surprised that I know the answer. And the only reason I can know the answer is because I lived it through 20 years of being an athlete. These are things you cannot learn in a physiology textbook.” “I’ve written four books now and I can’t tell you how many times writer’s block has just been solved by a long walk — and with no purpose. A walk with no purpose.”   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by: (Golden Ice Ace)     Steve House Bio For 21 years, Steve was a professional climber. His most famous ascent was with Vince Anderson. They did the central pillar of the Rupal Face and won the Piolet d’Or (Golden Ice Axe). Steve has done first ascents and new routes in Alaska, the Rockies, and the Alps, and is a famed climber. Renowned mountaineer Reinhold Messner called him the best high-altitude climber in the world. He’s been an ambassador athlete for Patagonia, Grivola, Sportiva, Zeal Optics, and Coros Watches. Steve retired from professional climbing at the end of 2020 to dedicate himself to his family and Uphill Athlete. He currently lives in Austria with his Wife Eva and two sons. Steve has been a professional mountain guide since 1992. In 1999, he became only the ninth American to achieve IFMGA certification, which is the highest level to guide all over the world. There are less than 200 certified in the U.S. to this day. He has guided trips across the world.  

Gena Cox, Ph.D. discusses her new book that provides powerful insights for leaders to drive inclusion: “Leading Inclusion: Drive Change Your Employees Can See and Feel.” In this conversation, Gena stresses the value of human relationships, and how organizations have vast opportunities to optimize the human experiences for their employees. Gena reveals how a system that doesn’t embrace inclusion will lose employees who don’t feel included. Listen in for how curiosity can help your team feel even more connected.     Key Takeaways   [2:00] Dr. Cox tells how she is the luckiest person in the world. Her grandmother had a grade school education but was an entrepreneurial wizard. From watching her grandmother grow her neighborhood store, Gena learned the value of the human relationship in terms of getting things done. Gena’s secret is that much of what she talks about comes from observing her grandmother and her customers. [2:56] When Dr. Cox was growing up, she wanted to be a journalist. She still sees journalists covering things around the world and imagines herself doing that. She supposes that journalists, like others, have a big “why” about how they can make the world better that lets them keep going. [4:22] Dr. Cox has been trained not to make assertions without evidence to support the assertions. She had known for a long time about the importance of respect. But it wasn’t until the summer of 2020 when she interviewed leaders and surveyed employees about what they think leaders don’t understand about inclusion, black employees said they felt leaders were distancing themselves and avoiding them. [5:54] When Dr. Cox did the content analysis to see the themes emerging from those comments, she came up with the word “respect.” These comments were all about things where people wanted to be seen, heard, and valued. [7:07] It is important not to just think about these issues in the present, but to look centuries back. In our country, there are social dynamics that have existed for generations within a community where there are significant power imbalances. These imbalances correlate with race, ethnicity, and socioeconomics. Ignoring those factors can lead to misunderstanding the experience of employees from those places. [8:21] Dr. Cox wrote one chapter about history at the beginning of her book. It makes a difference if leaders understand the broader context before they try to address specific initiatives or priorities in their organizations because they might miss the mark, otherwise. [9:19] Dr. Cox works with leaders on inclusion and with individuals to think about how they can be the best that they desire to be. It takes two sides of this equation to tango to get the outcomes that we desire. Dr. Cox shares a case of a client feeling discriminated against in their career progress. Dr. Cox suggested they look for what they could do to get past the barrier and jump the hurdle. [10:28] Dr. Cox offers three ideas that can help each of us make that difference for ourselves. 1. Have a big “why” for what kind of influence and impact you desire to have. 2. Have a track where you are working on custom master classes. Learn as much as you can that will help you get to your goal. 3. Amplify and brand yourself within our job. Dress and behave for the job you want. [11:53] If your current job does not allow you to do all that, you might have to do it on a parallel track and keep it moving until you can use what you learn to move forward overall. [14:06] Dr. Cox thinks there is a lot of misinterpretation and reinterpretation that takes place about leaders like Martin Luther King. Dr. Cox does not talk a lot about what specific people have said. Some people hearing a quote may miss the main idea. Inclusion tops diversity. It’s not just about getting more representation of a particular group. DE&I is really effective leadership of 100% of employees. [16:38] Dr. Cox talks about effective leadership to create situations where every single person in a team, group, or organization feels that he or she can put in the appropriate efforts and get the expected outcomes. We all have to have a part in making that happen, especially managers. [17:49] After George Floyd was killed, corporations started offering implicit bias training and hiring Chief Diversity Officers. Those two solutions are just tactics. They need to be added to a strategy that says “Here is what we are solving for.” [18:34] The most important thing leaders can do to minimize the risk of doing things that are not effective is to start by talking to employees about what is their day-to-day experience. Then they will tell you what you should focus on first. [19:20] Dr. Cox would like leaders to attach fewer restrictions to the research-based insights, such as the size of the survey group. The research is too new to be buttoned down. Dr. Cox points to the value of qualitative data or the stories that people tell in this area. These stories haven’t been told before so leaders don’t understand the solutions they should implement. [21:28] Dr. Cox asked about three years ago in a LinkedIn article why, with regard to DE&I, organizations are not utilizing the same strategy and problem-solving techniques that they apply to every other problem. Because of the emotional component, including fear and anxiety, about the topic, leaders are failing to use the same kinds of judgment skills that they might have used for something else. [22:22] What research have you done? Have you gone to a solution without research or understanding what’s going on so that your actions might work? Are you just throwing a dart at a board and hoping that something will stick? You would never do that if you were implementing a new initiative to support your customers or clients because you would know how high the risk would be. [23:18] The number one topic on the minds of boards of directors and leaders today, apart from making money, is talent. Under talent is the shortage of talent.  Why is there a shortage of talent? People come up with a variety of explanations. The data Dr. Cox sees is that there is a significant portion of the workforce that feels alienated from their leaders and colleagues and dissatisfied. [24:31] The latest research says that 50% of Black American employees say that they are thinking about or preparing themselves to leave their current job. There has been more data over the past couple of years because of the pandemic. [24:55] Dr. Cox asks leaders to think about why there is so much dissatisfaction and whether it is true in their organization. If so, what are the elements in their organization that could be causing it? If not true, what could they learn about it? They’re about to have this problem. What can they do to make it better for employees? [25:26] This leads to conversations about compensation, speaking up, well-being, mental health, and a variety of issues that should be at the tip of the spear. [26:31] Rehumanizing the workplace means emphasizing the idea that effective leadership is a pie chart. There’s a piece for task performance and a piece for human performance. All the outcomes organizations are driving to achieve have a human component. [28:23] Leaders are telling employees to “come back to the office and do it this way,” instead of considering alternative ways to work. There’s a significant gap between what employees desire and what the leaders at the top think employees desire. Rehumanizing the workplace means connecting with the employees. [32:50] Dr. Cox doesn’t want to believe that with MBA programs costing hundreds of thousands of dollars, organizations aren’t focusing on the human experience. But she believes they are not focusing sufficiently on the human experience. The management of humans has not been balanced with task performance. Dr. Cox wants to do away with the term “soft skills” which are understood to be less than “hard skills.” [34:40] In an HBR article, “5 Strategies to Infuse D&I into Your Organization,” Dr. Cox writes about mitigating implicit bias at the systemic level. It involves looking at data the organization has about existing patterns within the organization of selection, promotion, career mobility, and visibility of people who have a variety of characteristics. [36:15] Leaders often think they are leading organizations where things are better than employees might imply that they are. Diversity is not just hiring diverse people. If new employees walk into situations where the environment is not ready for them or receptive to them, they are not going to stay. It’s important for you to figure out, “What does it feel like to work in my organization every day?” [37:15] Leaders don’t know how their managers behave, day-to-day, or recognize how often those behaviors are having a damaging impact. They don’t put enough emphasis on setting expectations for manager behavior. Leaders need to ask, “Over the years that you have worked for this company, how often have you raised your hand to share an idea and been swatted down?” Optimize the talent you have! [38:21] If you run an organization with customer-facing people, you want to know how the customer is being treated. You should also want to know what experience your employees are having when they’re interacting with your customers, and not assume that the customer is always right! Inclusion is understanding the day-to-day experience of all the employees that you currently have. [40:09] Dr. Cox has spent at least 10 years measuring employee experience, advising leaders about how to use data coming out of employee surveys. Respect is a concept that everybody understands. Nobody seems to know what belonging means. [40:49] Dr. Cox says leaders only need to ask three questions in a survey: Do you feel respected? What is it about your experience that makes you feel respected? Do you feel disrespected? What is it about your experience that makes you feel disrespected? What can we do to enhance your feelings of being respected? A three-question survey is as powerful as a long survey if you know what you’re measuring. [42:25] Do not overcomplicate the issue. The only outcome that matters in this conversation is what are the experiences that employees are having and are they continuing to have good or bad experiences. What accounts for the variability between good and bad experiences, and what you can do as a leader, knowing and understanding that, to make these things a little more equitable and consistent? [43:39] Dr. Cox speaks of potential clients who ask her to talk about something and when it gets to a point where it’s uncomfortable, they hadn’t planned for the discomfort, and then rather than move forward through the discomfort, they back away and don’t want to do the thing they should be doing. Dr. Cox is disappointed that some leaders haven’t thought through what they believe. [44:34] On the plus side, while a lot of the things organizations are doing are destined not to have any impact when it comes to inclusion, more leaders are talking about these issues and are inching forward to a place where leaders can be engaged in trying to understand these issues rather than avoiding them. Dr. Cox is having these conversations more than ever before, even when some people are running away. [48:01] Dr. Cox’s last thought: “I have a three Cs model. … Curiosity leads to Connection and that Curiosity and Connection are necessary in order to get to Comfort. Comfort, I think, is what we all seek.” [49:03] Closing quote: Remember, “Everything that we see is a shadow cast by that which we do not see.” — Martin Luther King Jr.   Quotable Quotes “While I call myself an organizational psychologist because that’s my formal training, the secret that most people don’t know is that a lot of the stuff that I talk about is stuff that I learned in the little … corner store just by observing my grandmother and her customers.” “When I was growing up, I wanted to be a journalist. I didn’t even think about psychology, And still to this day, when I see journalists covering all kinds of things around the world, I say, ‘Gosh, I could do that. I can do that.’” “Dr. King taught us that whether we are talking about race, gender, LGBTQ+, ethnicity, neurodiversity, or other ways that humans naturally vary, we can’t sit idly by and wait for others to provide the inclusion we seek. Each of us can help ourselves and others.” “I talk about effective leadership to create situations where every single person … in an organization, feels that he or she, when they show up, have a chance to be able to put in the effort that is appropriate and get the same outcomes that would be expected.” “Something about the emotion of this issue is causing people to fail to use problem-solving skills that they actually already possess.” “Are you optimizing the talent that you already have? Most people will say, when I ask ‘What is missing here about why I don’t feel included?’, it tends to fall into the category that ‘I’m not seen, heard, or valued.’” “By inclusion, I simply mean understanding the day-to-day experience of all the employees that you currently have.” “I remain eternally optimistic about all of this because of Gen Z and their willingness to speak for us, for everybody, about what that good human experience feels like.”   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by:  

Charlotte Allen is the Founder and CEO of Rebel Success for Leaders. In today’s turbulent environment that demands new levels of collaboration, Charlotte works to create a world where change is fun and innovations are successful. She has over 20 years of leadership experience and is a best-selling author. Her latest book is “Rebel Success for Leaders: Lead, Grow, and Sell Fearlessly.” Charlotte brings clarity to topics including change, project failure, competing priorities, customer-centricity, and what being a rebel brings to leadership. Listen in for insights about STEM experts, influence, collaboration, and success.     Key Takeaways   [1:49] Charlotte tore her ACL in a ski accident a year ago in 2022. After a lot of physical therapy, she got back on the slopes a year later, to the day. [3:01] Charlotte explains why 70% of business change and innovation projects fail. People tend to have an aversion to change of any kind. We power through it, hoping it’ll be over soon, without focusing on the vision of what we want it to be and how to get there. [4:39] Change and innovation each bring something new into the world but innovation has a positive aura around it. It’s the warm, fuzzy bunny version of change. But the number of innovation projects that get to market is not that different from the number of successful change projects. [6:11] Failure is an important thing to describe. When we launch an initiative within a corporation, we often have organizational fallout. Parts of the organization did not get the communication. Parts are not happy. Some employees are asked to leave as a result of the change initiative. The failed initiative may get repeated. KPIs for initiatives need to be set up in a way we can measure them. [8:46] If the leadership is not clear on where the team is going, there will be a challenge to success. If there is no clarity within the team about how to operate, communicate, and work together, there’s going to be a problem with success. We are extremely driven by tools, metrics, and the latest model, without looking at how people are unable to deliver their best work within the boundaries leaders put them in. [10:10] Competing priorities, the squirrel syndrome, and siloed departments lead to failed projects. [11:21] Charlotte discusses the problems that complexity brings. Complexity is not a friend of successful change. [12:53] STEM people in an organization are not getting the same amount of training and leadership development as the sales team, but they are the experts expected to lead change initiatives. They need to learn two languages, the language of deep experts and the language of change, leadership, and development. But not everybody wants to be in every chair on an org chart. [17:45] There is a large predisposition in STEM workers to get into their work, which they are very good at. They come to a time in their career when they wish they had had more exposure to business elements. Folks that can do the translation between deep expertise and business are unique. We need to be searching for them, training them, and putting them into positions where they can lead. [19:58] Publicly-traded companies have to report out; metrics, KPIs, and spreadsheets are a required part of business. [20:26] In 2023, Charlotte believes leaders will spend more time with, invest in, and develop their people. These efforts can result in fewer people leaving and have positive effects on efficiency and employee satisfaction and engagement. Leaders are seeing that, partly because of changes during the pandemic. There is a large social movement for building community. You don’t build community with spreadsheets. [23:01] Comfort is the enemy of progress. People stay in a toxic environment because it’s a known job, and change is more frightening. There are so many other options out there. You, as a person, have gifts beyond what you are currently delivering. If you are in a toxic environment, there is no way that you can perform at your best. [24:53] About being a rebel: if not doing something will not get you fired, then consider it. If not doing something, or doing something, is going to get you fired, think hard about that particular action. Charlotte chose the book title Rebel Success For Leaders for a reason. She has always been able to do two important things: drive a path out of complexity and translate among dissimilar groups, such as silos. [25:47] Charlotte learned that you need to be unique, having the thing that only you can deliver to your business or your professional life. That is your rebel. You need to connect that with market success, timeline success, or the solution you need to deliver to the bottom line. In business, we spend most of the time on the success part, little time on the rebel part, and almost no time on connecting the two parts. [27:38] Success comes from a framework more than a recipe. A recipe is a precise pattern. A framework includes the key parts of a structure that allows you to change and operate within with enough of a scaffolding that you’re not going to freefall. The Forbes HR Council published an article in 2022 that said we are at a global deficit of leaders in every area who are good at change leadership. [29:00] Forbes identified five abilities leaders need to excel at — adaptability, agility, innovation, collaboration, and customer-centricity. Think of these five skills as the scaffolding. How do you have enough mobility within that to move forward and be good at change regardless of the situation? [30:42] Charlotte discusses customer-centricity in the area of STEM. She tells STEM technical experts that every person they interact with is their customer. “You are trying to influence them with your expertise and you are trying to change their behavior because of the advice and expertise you are giving them. So they are your customer. I am your customer because I am your boss, your leader, your manager.” [31:55] That was effective because deep experts tend to speak a lot of “deep expert.” They are used to being the ones that everyone turns to for the answer. They give details. What they rarely do is build a relationship, ask what your problems are, or try to understand your position. When you get an expert to think in a customer-centric way, it tweaks their brain just enough to think in terms of the relationship. [32:54] This gets them listening, looking for common ground, and communicating. They will deliver their expertise in a customer-centric framework. Customer-centricity is the human connection. [35:59] Collaboration is when two people decide to work together for a common goal to achieve a certain output. That is another word that is tossed around by organizations all the time. Not all group activity is collaboration. You must be working for a common goal and a certain output. [37:59] The curiosity of a technical person, when not guided appropriately in interpersonal interactions, tends to be off-putting and feels like an interrogation. When you put the seed in their brain that this is a customer, it starts to affect that conversation in a more positive way. [39:18] Charlotte’s challenge: “My challenge this year to everyone that I connect with is to think about how change can be fun. … I don’t always want it when it shows up at my door but I usually am very excited about it from that space of curiosity. And change can be a lot of fun once you have that framework that helps you guide your actions and your stability and that sense of comfort that you need a little bit of.” [40:28] Closing quote: Remember, “We will always have STEM with us. Some things will drop out of the public eye and will go away, but there will always be science, engineering, and technology. And there will always, always be mathematics.” —   Quotable Quotes “Failure is an important thing to describe. … When we launch an initiative within a corporation, we often have organizational fallout. There are parts of the organization that did not get the communication; parts that are not happy.” “Complexity is not a friend of successful change.” “We all have passion for the work that we do. A lot of folks in that STEM space have a really deep passion for the work that they’re doing for making a difference, for providing those solutions for their organizations and for the customer base that they support and work for.” “Not everybody wants to be in every chair on an org chart. When you find those folks who have the desire and the development opportunities to move spots, then I think there’s really no difference between a STEM person and a salesperson or a CEO, at the end of the day.” “There are so many other options out there. … You, as a person, have gifts beyond what you are currently delivering. And if you are in [a] toxic environment, there is no way that you can perform at your best.” “The customer-centricity, I honestly believe, is that human connection piece that we are all glossing over.” “Collaboration is when two people decide to work together for a common goal to achieve a certain output. That is another word that is tossed around organizations all the time.”   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by:  

Sarah Wirth is President of Ecsell Institute, and co-author of the best-selling book, The Coaching Effect. Her life passion is understanding what makes people tick. Sarah has spent the last two decades researching, writing, and teaching about what the best leaders do differently. In this interview, Sarah starts the conversation with her affinity for pop culture and the lessons for leadership she finds in movies. She tells how Ecsell Institute started as training for sales leaders and expanded into helping leaders in other areas. Sarah and her team gather and analyze survey data to help leaders improve the performance of their organizations by improving their coaching.     Key Takeaways   [2:02] Sarah’s team members say she is a pop-culture guru. She likes movies, TV, books, and music, and she likes to find leadership lessons in them. She did a series on looking for leadership lessons in movies. [2:28] Past guest Dean DiSibio wrote Reel Lessons in Leadership, where he talks about leadership lessons from movies. [3:12] Sarah picks Moneyball as a movie with leadership lessons. The character Brad Pitt plays is trying to lead his team in a different direction and lead it differently than anyone has ever led a baseball team. Jan likes Blues Brothers but would pick Succession (TV show). Jim would pick Ted Lasso (TV show). [6:08] Jan and Jim once asked past guests, “How do you measure leader effectiveness?” That is the purpose of Ecsell Institute. They go to the people that are being led to measure leader effectiveness. Then they compare the results with measurable goals for that position and what the leaders are doing to reach the goals. [7:25] Ecsell Institute looks at leaders that are achieving their goals versus leaders that are not. Then they look at how those leaders are leading differently, according to their team members. That gives Ecsell Institute an understanding of the behaviors of successful leaders. [8:58] The Ecsell questions are behaviorally-based. For example, “When you have your one-to-one meetings, does your leader have you define action steps coming out of them? How often?” They are trying to find leadership behaviors to give recommendations to help others become better leaders. People can learn behaviors to emulate. [11:57] Part of the evaluation is outcome-variable questions, such as whether you see yourself working here a year from now. How happy are you in your job? How much do you trust your leader? Would you recommend your team as a great team to work with? Sarah tells how transparency in sharing the information behind the decisions made has a huge impact on trust. [13:37] The Coaching Effects Leadership Survey is consistent in terms of what it measures. How it applies to an organization is something Ecsell has a conversation about with the organization, in particular, how specific leadership traits fit into the company culture. [15:06] Communication and transparency from Ecsell are key to getting employees to trust the survey and how it works. There is even a final question that is not reported to the client, “On a scale of one to 10, how honest were you in giving your responses to these questions?” Some respondents will put a five, especially in low-trust environments. [17:39] Sarah recommends the Coaching Effects Survey for choosing which leaders to invest in. The high-rated leaders are the ones who are interested in being great at what they do. They are passionate about being good leaders. They’re the ones who want to learn more and improve. Others may have more room for improvement but high-performing leaders have more potential for improvement. [19:42] A lot of times people get promoted into leadership opportunities because they were good individual performers. Sarah talks to the newly promoted leader and to their manager to understand, does this person have leadership capability? It’s a different skill set. You might get an underperforming manager while losing a great performer. [20:40] Sarah recommends that managers ask their team members before promoting them, what is it that interests them about being a leader. If they talk about enjoying coaching and mentoring their peers, and helping others achieve success, that shows they are likely to have an aptitude for leadership. If they just want to move up or make more money, that doesn’t indicate an aptitude for leadership. [22:35] Ecsell was founded to work with sales leaders. It expanded as clients wanted to apply the concepts to other leaders in their organizations. Sarah explains how sales leadership differs from other corporate areas. Salespeople are the athletes of the corporate world. They have to perform all the time. Their performance is measured differently. They have emotional highs and lows. They need coaching. [23:50] If you have a sales coach that does not manage the salespersons as much on the emotional level as on the task level, you’re going to lose out on so many opportunities to help salespeople perform. [24:07] Past guest Dan Pink made the point that salespeople are not motivated by money but by winning. Money is how they keep score. Sarah agrees with this. In an 18-month sales cycle, we have to find different ways to tap into that motivation to perform. A good coach can do that. The monetary goals alone will not drive the behavior. [25:21] Sarah believes it’s a disadvantage for a CEO not to have a sales background. However, a good CEO can learn about sales motivation. Sales teams suffer when they are overmanaged and under-coached. [27:22] One of the measurements of the Coaching Effects Survey is how consistent that leader is in their behavior. The best leaders are a lot more consistent with their team members. The consistency extends to one-to-one meetings, giving feedback, talking about the team member’s career, and following through on commitments. [29:37] When you are consistent as a leader, it makes the moments when you are inconsistent stand out more. Your team members are going to want to dig into it and understand it. If you are very consistent, then, when there’s something off, they might think there’s a pretty good. [30:59] Sarah would coach the importance of consistency starting with questions. She would ask a team member who was behaving inconsistently, “What’s your understanding of what you are supposed to be doing here?” They may not understand the expectations around their role. [31:31] Once she knows the expectations are aligned, Sarah would say “Let’s look at the data. Here’s where you’re meeting it, here’s where you’re not. Help me understand the gap. What’s holding you back from being able to achieve this?” They may need more training or a better understanding of the expectation. [32:04] Sarah doesn’t want to make assumptions about what’s causing the inconsistency. She wants to diagnose the issue with the person and come up with the problem and ideally, to come up with solutions together about what they can do differently. They buy into the solution, instead of being told what to do to fix their problem. [33:20] Sarah shares a client experience. A senior leader had thought the managers were doing one-to-ones, feedback, and career discussions, but they weren’t. The data showed clearly that despite the best intentions of the managers, they were not getting the coaching done. The disconnect between the leader’s perception and the reality in the eyes of the team members was a surprise to the leader. [34:08] So the leader made it a clear expectation. She made their coaching activities and the expectation to do them as part of their year-end bonus structure. If the leaders weren’t doing these coaching activities at a certain percentage, they would lose part of that compensation at the end of the year. The managers took it seriously, raised their coaching, and the company had its best two sales years so far. [35:01] The managers bought into it because they saw their teams were achieving more. They were motivated to keep coaching, even if they weren’t measured anymore, because they saw that it matters. [35:54] Sarah explains the reports Ecsell Institute produces for clients. For every question on the survey, they provide your result, company benchmarks, and top-performer benchmarks, so you can see how you are doing compared to your peers and the best leaders. [36:56] The data shows if you don’t have a strong relationship with your coach, at the core of that coaching dynamic, everything else — accountability, the type of feedback that they give you, how much they push you — all those other things kind of fall on deaf ears. They don’t know that you care and that you’re doing it in their best interest. [37:30] Sarah shares her thoughts on ChatGPT and artificial intelligence. There are certain things that can be helpful in the coaching process, that we can allow artificial intelligence to do, but at the core of it, the human relationship is so essential to helping somebody perform and grow. Sarah doesn’t think there’s a way that you replace that. [37:58] There’s always going to be such an important role that good leaders play because they’re the only people that can establish that human connection. [38:18] Jan just asked ChatGPT “What are the best questions to ask in a 360 for leaders?” In two seconds it responded, “How do I come across to others, in terms of my leadership style?” and “What do you think I need to do to build more trust with my team?” It’s going to be a great tool. Jan thinks it will help us get better. Please listen to Episode 348 for an interview with “guest” ChatGPT! [39:37] Jim heard that at least at one time if you were underperforming in an Amazon warehouse, a robot would come up to you and terminate your employment. That robot “definitely had a sign taped to its back!” [40:23] Sarah’s closing thoughts: “At Ecsell Institute, we are continuing to study leadership across the board and one of the places that we’re starting to study it is in high school and looking specifically at leadership from teachers and coaches and how it impacts kids in the classroom or on the court. … So be watching for more research that we have coming out on that, too.” [41:03] Closing quote: Remember, “Each person holds so much power within themselves that needs to be let out. Sometimes they just need a little nudge, a little direction, a little support, a little coaching, and the greatest things can happen.” — Pete Carroll, Seattle Seahawks   Quotable Quotes “My team members at Ecsell always like to say that I’m a bit of a pop-culture guru. I like my movies, I like my TV, I like my books, I like my music, and I like to find leadership lessons in them. I did a whole series once on how you can look for leadership lessons in … movies.” “There’s a scene at the end where they said, ‘The first one through the wall always gets bloodied.’ And I think that’s sometimes very true around leaders that are trying to be innovative and do different things. So [Moneyball] is a good movie for leadership lessons.” “There are many models of leadership in Pulp Fiction.” “The major way that we measure leader effectiveness is by going to the people that are being led. We feel that is the only way. If you want to get feedback and insight into whether or not somebody’s a good leader, ask the people that they’re supposed to be leading.” “Sometimes we just study the outcomes but we don't know necessarily what’s the role that that leader plays in achieving those outcomes.” “The leaders that are more highly rated in terms of their team members trust them, what behaviors are they exhibiting differently than the leaders who have low trust ratings? … How much information you share behind decisions that are made has a huge impact on trust ratings.” “As leaders, we overestimate a lot how consistent we are because we tend to judge ourselves by our intentions and what our plans were. But others judge us by what our behavior actually was.” “If you don’t have a strong relationship with your coach, at the core of that coaching dynamic, everything else — accountability, the type of feedback that they give you, how much they push you — all those other things fall on deaf ears because they don’t know that you care.” “There’s always going to be such an important role that good leaders play because they’re the only people that can establish that human connection.”   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by:    

Vivian James Rigney is a Seven Summits climber, and author of the book, “Naked at the Knife-Edge: What Everest Taught Me about Leadership and the Power of Vulnerability.” A Dublin native, Vivian shares information about his international travels and how he helps senior executives get past their egos, give up old habits, embrace vulnerability, and better serve their organizations. One tool he uses to teach vulnerability draws on his experience near the summit of Everest, where he learned the necessity of clarity and purpose. Listen in for insights on curiosity, peeling back the layers, and getting to the root of issues, challenges and opportunities.   Key Takeaways   [2:25] Vivian is from Dublin, Ireland. He studied business, then traveled the world. He has lived in seven countries, has visited more than 80 countries, and is now firmly planted in New York City. Every time he has launched himself in a new place has been a journey. He has seven books he could write about restarting in each country. [3:20] Apart from Ireland and the U.S., Vivian has lived the longest in Germany. He learned to speak German and French and he can still speak those languages. He lived in Finland for six winters, and he “can speak to a two-year-old” in Finnish. Vivian believes Mandarin and Finnish are the world’s toughest languages. [4:35] To make high-impact goals, first be very clear on the goal. Be congruent with the goal. Understand where your value system comes in. If you’re not fully committed to the goal, the words may be right but people won’t see it as a clear goal. [5:16] Never underestimate the power of subtraction. A list of too many goals diffuses the goals. If you have too many goals, you’ll fail on some. Be honest with yourself about a core list of goals. Say no to less important things. People will understand what the priorities are. [5:59] Acknowledge progress and celebrate success along the way. People need KPIs and progress reports. Success is not easy. In most cases, there has been a lot of toil along the way. There are people's challenges. So step back and learn from the things that could be done better next time. It helps people to be more authentic. It builds a culture of transparency. It changes the culture for the better. [7:31] Past guest Simon Sinek stressed, “It’s a journey. It’s a journey. It’s a journey.” You may never get there. Sometimes, once you’ve got there, it’s depressing. [7:59] High-impact goals benefit and serve others as well as yourself. The people executing the goal do better if they internalize the goal. You can make it clear to them how the end customer is helped by the goals. The minimum should be that your team and people feel connected with the goal. You connect as a leader with your team on an individual level. [10:08] On fact and assumption: Vivian recalls Denzel Washington in The Great Debaters. To be effective leaders we have to be current. Our nature is to operate from habits. That allows us to deal with what’s happening around us. But we have to be current, which means we have to upgrade what we believe. Are we dealing with information that’s relevant for now or a view we held yesterday? [10:50] We may be dealing with strong personalities who sound very compelling and sound good, but blow hot air and are not grounded. We constantly have to be asking what is the fact, and what is the emotion. There is a lot of emotion in the world. Distill down honestly what is important. Get past the ego that drives us. [11:40] Get feedback. Leaders tend to operate in their heads. Do we get perspectives on how others see us and experience us? Their perception is their reality. Use something like a 360-degree survey. Use a sounding board cabinet you can talk to, being vulnerable and open. Being a leader can be a lonely existence. Getting feedback can make you more real and current. [13:58] After getting past your ego, if you want to bring everyone else in a team to a current reality, Vivian says to be wildly curious. If you think something is off, ask about the situation with no judgment but curiosity to get to the facts, layer by layer, saying “Tell me more about that.” Get everyone to hear themselves and recalibrate their report if necessary. Drill down until you land at a point of clarity. [17:01] Vivian lays out a path for building a culture of curiosity in your team. After having a conversation about clarity, ask “What did I do differently today?” You may get observations like “You listened, you asked a lot of questions.” This creates shared learning, as people reflect on what you did as a leader. Ask “How did it make you feel to share more, or as I was asking more questions?” It’s curiosity with purpose. [18:40] Vivian shares some knowledge of the Seven Summits. There is more than one set, with a difference in one of the peaks selected. The people who have done the harder set number in the hundreds. [19:53] With his clients, Vivian uses a metaphor of a backpack filled with rocks. Letting go of the rocks in your backpack is letting go of strategies and habits you used in past roles that are no longer relevant to your senior role. What used to be ballast is now dead weight. Less is more. [22:41] Vivian recently talked a senior leader through the rationale of dialing back his intensity. Asking if it was in the leader’s DNA to get up late and lounge around, the leader knew it wasn’t. Being less intense did not mean he would get less done or lose the respect of his team. [24:34] There’s a basis of fear that has to be overcome. Vivian says it’s the fear of changing the status quo and losing control. Leaders feel they need to stay in control to stay on top of things. That comes at the cost of intuition. To make better decisions faster, tap into your intuition. Controlling too much is slow and inefficient. Releasing control frees you up to harness the strength you’ve built up over the years. [25:25] The purpose of a coach is to get the most out of the person they’re working with. In a business context, mindfulness is more about letting go of ego and being more authentic, having more impact through followership. [27:39] Sometimes we need to shed people. We don’t choose our family but we do choose the people around us. You want friends with net positive energy in daily life. You don’t want to have friends that always take energy from you that you need for other relationships. We deserve to be able to give to and receive from everybody. [30:20] Vivian discusses how to coach somebody to be “more strategic.” Is it that they are strategic but things get in the way, or is it that they are more suited to tactics and execution than strategy? The reality is that they may be in a role they don’t fit. [33:07] The top challenges facing senior leaders today are loneliness, agility, curiosity, and the data to process and use for faster decisions. The most important thing for leaders today is leading people of different generations, post-great-resignation while being authentic. [36:15] As a leader, you have ownership of how you recharge and must give the people on your team the same space to recharge. Recharging means different things for different people. If you demonstrate that you value recharging, while allowing your team room to choose how they recharge, it will show your support. Expect optimal performance from your team in the hours they work for you. [39:20] People may think that climbing Seven Summits makes you a wild, competitive animal that attacks things and figures them out. Vivian writes a detailed story in the book on the power of vulnerability. Everest was difficult for Vivian. On summit day, their guide seemed ill and was mumbling that he couldn’t do it this time. That put Vivian in a dark space with a hugely negative inner dialog. [40:39] Vivian felt a dark cloud overhead. He believed he couldn’t get up or down and he was sure he would die there. He felt a voice come from deep within him, repeating “Why are you here?” He realized he was climbing to prove himself. The voice asked why he was proving how strong, good, and successful he is. He closed his eyes to make peace with his expected demise. [41:41] Vivian’s sherpa tapped him on the shoulder and said if they stayed they would die. The sherpa demanded Vivian follow him. Everywhere the sherpa put his boot, Vivian put his boot. He thought he was going down, but he suddenly realized the sherpa was ascending. He followed him to the summit where he appreciated the view from the top but the cloud was with him until he got off the mountain. [42:37] The learning for Vivian was that we have to know why we’re doing things, not just chasing goals. He appreciates Everest but he regrets not having more clarity in his goal when he climbed it. In many cases, we do things without knowing why. Vivian didn’t need to prove anything. He had already achieved much. [43:08] As leaders, we have to learn when to let go. We are enough. Ask, “How do I use what I have?” Vivian shares with clients his vulnerability and what he learned from it. It induces them to share their story and they build rapport from that. Examples like that help us to be real. Life is all about real experiences. Vivian uses that in his coaching. [44:26] Vivian’s thoughts about the inner voice he heard on Everest: “I think that voice is always with us. … We do have to listen to ourselves, to let go of the noise, and we have to do that by disarming the ego. … We try to get people wise and honest themselves, 30, 40 years ahead of the regret, and have fulfilling times from that point forward.” [46:10] Vivan wrote Naked at the Knife Edge in New York City during the COVID-19 pandemic when he felt a vulnerability similar to the vulnerability he had felt on Mt. Everest in 2010. He said it was time to write the book. He wrote it in a few months, then added leadership pieces and reflections to it. It had taken him 10 years to be ready. [47:33] Closing quote: Remember, “A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives.” — Jackie Robinson   Quotable Quotes “How do you make goals that are going to be meaningful and resonant? The first thing one has to do is be very clear on that goal. Be congruent with the goal. Understand where your value system comes in with this. Why is that? Because you’re a leader.” “Never underestimate the power of subtraction. … People tend to make shopping lists of goals. … A list that’s too long gets in the way. It diffuses the goals.” “‘Wildly curious’ means, if you’ve done the introspection on your own head,  which is step number one, do it with others. … [Go in] without judgment. … Peel back the layer and say, ‘Tell me more about that.’” “When they get to senior leadership levels, … they’re using a lot of tools that they used in the past to do what they do today. … It’s about letting go of strategies from the past and habits from the past, which are no longer relevant. … Less is more.” “A decent coach’s sole purpose is not to reinvent the wheel; it’s to get the most out of that person they’re working with.” “As a leader, you have to have ownership of how you recharge and the people under you.” “In many cases in life, we are doing things without knowing why we’re doing it. In my case, I was trying to prove how good I was. How strong I was. But I didn’t need to prove; I’d already achieved.” “I think that voice is always with us. For me, I had chosen not to listen to it earlier, doing previous things. … We do have to listen to ourselves, we have to let go of the noise, and we have to do that by disarming the ego and really letting go.”   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by:  

Erin Shrimpton is a chartered organizational psychologist and a LinkedIn Learning Instructor. Erin has a passion for shaping culture that is true to the brand it represents and strategy it supports. In this episode, Erin shares what she’s  learned about the workplace experience, and how culture is created and influenced by the behavior leaders model. Listen in for a dynamic conversation regarding the psychological aspects of how the environment, and connections truly shape culture.     Key Takeaways   [2:25] Erin was recommended to Jan and Jim by Dean Karrel, another LinkedIn Learning instructor. Jan and Erin have an Irish connection. Jan took students to study abroad in Dublin, Belfast, and Galway to compare and contrast the business and cultural environments between the U.S. and Ireland. Erin was born in Ireland and is based there. [3:41] Erin loves the Beatles! Particularly, The White Album. Erin considers that everybody has some sort of connection with the Beatles. [6:05] Erin talks about changing the experience to change the culture. Recent neuroscience research shows that much of the way we behave is shaped by our experiences. Our experience shapes the pathways in our brains, so much more than we knew before. Apply that to what we experience every day in the workplace. [7:21] Who owns the experiences we have at work? The CEO and senior leaders, HR, IT, Facilities, your manager, and your colleagues. Your colleagues are a large part of your experience. You may be powerless to change the direction of the organization, but you can change your experience with your colleagues. If you’re a great team leader, you can empower them to change their experience, every day. [9:01] Empowering your team to have great experiences may not change the wider culture but when you work together to change the little things about how you interact with each other, you start to catalyze change, because other teams are looking at you. This changes the culture from the ground up. [9:35] Jan refers to a recent NY Times article on assessing job satisfaction and why employees leave. A big factor is that the values the employees have are not the same as the values of the organization. When that happens, Jan tells clients there are three choices: they can work to change things, they can accept things, or they can seek employment elsewhere. [10:34] Erin’s first “port of call” in a similar case is always to examine and see what you can change. There are a lot of things within your control when working in teams. If even your great experiences with colleagues cannot protect you against a toxic culture, Erin encourages people to find another route for employment. That’s only after Erin has investigated with them how else they could change things there. [12:41] In the remote world, it is too early to tell how culture is being affected when people don’t see each other between meetings. Erin is pleased to see organizations getting together outside of their working context for the connection’s sake. [13:22] Erin sees two big issues with remote work: We’re losing opportunities to watch other people role-model examples and more importantly, we’re losing the opportunity to connect with people in an unstructured, water-cooler-type way. Erin sees the second issue as being damaging to our well-being and mental health. The first issue is detrimental to the organization, the second is a societal issue. [14:37] Research says that when we’ve got autonomy over our working day, the outcomes for our work and our mental health are much better, but we need to make sure we are connecting in person, as we can, as well. Use intention to create “impromptu” moments. Networking is essential. [17:08] Erin tells how some younger people (after working virtually) react to one of her in-person workshops with everyone in the room together. They find it nice to be in a group and have banter. But most young people are electing to work remotely. Are they finding moments of connection elsewhere and are they satisfied with that? If they are, do we need to rethink office work? [18:29] Erin sees local people going out to lunch with friends, even going for a swim, and then heading back to their home office for the afternoon. They are getting connections in their neighborhoods, which is good societally but presents a challenge to organizations seeking to create cohesiveness among their employees. Realize that it takes an effort to create connections with people. [20:53] Erin tells leaders we are facing two issues at the moment: revolutionizing the way we work and working out how to keep our teams connected. Erin asks them “Can one issue solve the other? Can you ask your team to solve together one thing that’s bothering them now?” When they feel real autonomy to do that, they get going with it and start that meaningful connection, whether it is local or remote. [23:11] Erin teaches a LinkedIn Learning class, “Use an Entrepreneurial Mindset to Find Success and Fulfilment at Work.” Erin has been intrigued by entrepreneurial thinking since she was a child. When she went into psychology she studied what makes work better for people. Then she assisted in a startup, Innocent Drinks. Everyone there was encouraged to think entrepreneurially. Erin learned how to do it. [24:14] When Erin went into other organizations and coached organizations for culture change, she noticed entrepreneurial people everywhere. Entrepreneurs aren’t just people who start businesses; entrepreneurs are people who think in a certain way about making something better. She also noticed that entrepreneurs absolutely have to find a way to motivate themselves that is not financially driven. [24:49] For most entrepreneurs, their “fortune” is a very long way away, so they have to motivate themselves to get up and find work every day that fulfills them that day. That’s what Erin saw in the entrepreneurial thinks she found at work in various organizations. They are able to find an intrinsic reward in their day-to-day work. [25:17] Being people who are able to find the intrinsic reward in the daily activities of their work, who are able to tolerate the uncertainty of our working lives, and who look with vision into the future are the three main elements Erin talks about in her LinkedIn Learning course. It is a mindset that can be learned. Most people don’t want to start companies but they can find this entrepreneurial mindset helpful. [26:27] To learn a mindset, adopt the behaviors and the habits. As a leader, be a role model of the habits you want others to adopt. Erin asks leaders, "How are you getting people to solve these problems with you?” To change their behavior, people need to feel some responsibility for the outcome. Jan quotes an old Irish mentor of his, Bud Ahern, who said, “People support what they help create.” [28:26] Erin shares information about Innocent Drinks, a very innovative brand for its time. Instead of printing “Use By” on the lid, they put “Enjoy By.” They didn’t think about the rules as they were, but about how they could change things. Erin has taken that with her, ever since. [29:18] Thinking about “how it could be” leads to innovation and creativity. But we are accustomed to operating by rules. We have to have some rules and heuristics because otherwise we would become overwhelmed with the world. Tune in to notice the set of rules by which you operate. Do you need them? How could things be different? Where do you stop breaking the rules, though? [31:01] It is hard as a leader to encourage rule-breaking but not too much. She compares the rules we used to have for our daily work to our rules for this more flexible environment. We have to learn how to be flexible with the rules and use a bit of deep thought about where the line is drawn and whether to break this rule or not. For leaders, it comes back to role modeling and sometimes admitting fallibility. [32:13] A leader may need to explain, “I took this risk. I probably went a step too far and here’s why, and here’s the learning I had from it.” It’s a bit of trial and error. You’re not always going to get it right as a leader but it’s worth that risk. [33:13] We need to be more forgiving as people adjust to what could be our new normal. There is an ongoing level of discomfort we all feel in this transition and we’re not articulating it enough. In 2019, we really had a very different life as a global culture. We don’t know how the future will play out and that’s uncomfortable. Having compassion for this discomfort can go a long way for leaders with their teams. [34:34] Active listening, taking a team member out for coffee, asking people how they are doing, all go so far. Jan cites past guest Margaret Heffernan who said before the pandemic, we were all about efficiency. The pandemic showed us we weren’t very adaptable. Today, businesses are still trying to be efficient while adapting to the needs of the people who run the business. We need negotiation skills. [35:31] A psychological contract with your employer is about the expectations you have going into a job and the expectations your employer has for your performance. You have an unwritten psychological contract but over time the contract gets breached because the expectations of the employee and the employer don’t match. This can lead to disengagement, or it can be managed by good communication. [36:31] If you joined a new organization in 2019, your employment expectations then are much different than your expectations today. We need to be having more open conversations about how our expectations have changed around our working lives, including what employers are expecting of their people. The team needs to understand what the expectations are and how they’ve changed. [37:54] Even knowing about it, Erin also falls into the trap of mismatched or misunderstood expectations. She will find herself frustrated and then recognize she has an expectation about something that may not be realistic. The first step is to become aware of your expectations. Then find the language and the forum to have those conversations with your manager or colleagues. [39:24] In the negotiation we are having about the new ways of working you need to get granular about things like managing your boundaries around your working lives. When it is OK to text or email? These details are what make up our day-to-day experiences. Give people permission to disagree or “fight.” It’s encouraged to avoid the dysfunction of complacency. People need to challenge each other. [40:56] Erin’s Closing thoughts: “Take time out to reflect because we are all so overwhelmed and busy … and so many … things … require a deep reflection and tuning in to what’s going on for us and …  to what’s going on for our teams.” [42:12] Closing quote: Remember, “Progress is impossible without change, and those who cannot change their minds cannot change anything.” — George Bernard Shaw   Quotable Quotes “I always think that everybody has a connection with the Beatles in some way, shape, or form.” “The field of neuroscience has progressed so much in the last 20 years when I did my undergrad in psychology. What we know now is so much of the way we behave is shaped by our experience.” “If you think about what is the best definition of culture, it’s ‘How we do things around here.’ So. how do we learn about how to do things? We watch, and we experience what everybody else is doing, don’t we?” “One of the things that people often get frustrated with about culture is that they feel completely disempowered to do anything about it. … If you’re thinking ‘There’s nothing I can do,’ that may be true in some context, … but you can change the experience.” “If you work in what you might define as a toxic culture, working with great colleagues helps you to kind of buffer against that. But there certainly comes a point, and … this is really important, … where you have to be brave and say to yourself, … this is not good for me.” “As a psychologist, I am all for the flexibility, the autonomy, that we are now enjoying with the new hybrid way of working. … I think it is really great for most of us.” “Other research says that when we’ve got autonomy over our working day, the outcome for our work is so much better and for our mental health, but … we need to make sure we are connecting in person, as and when we can, as well.” “Connection doesn’t happen just because you put people in an office. It happens when they’re working on something meaningful. So that’s the thing to focus on.” “Entrepreneurs aren’t just people who start businesses; entrepreneurs are people who think in a certain way about making something better.” “A world that affords us flexibility means that we also have to be flexible in it. We have to learn how to be flexible.”   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by:

ChatGPT is the artificial intelligence talk of the town, and Jan and Jim have experimented with it for a few months and share the questions they asked it, and the responses ChatGPT provided. They discuss how ChatGPT can be a game-changer for leaders to spend more time doing what they do best - develop relationships and exercise judgment. Listen in for how AI can be a new tool in your toolbox, and its potential as a leadership enhancer.    Key Takeaways   [1:38] Jan and Jim give a big shoutout to their friend Greg Hinc of County Cork, Ireland. He wrote that he started listening to The Leadership Podcast at about Episode 150, then he went back and listened to them all. He comments on their social media posts. He’s talked a lot about how much he’s learned and gained from it, which means a lot to Jan and Jim. There’s a little gift coming to Greg. [2:34] If you have listened to every episode like Greg, then Jan and Jim would love to hear from you, as well. [4:07] Jim’s friend, Jim Mirochnik of Halock Security Labs, introduced him three months ago to ChatGPT, an artificial intelligence chatbot. After five minutes of interaction, Jim was as excited as when he first learned of the world wide web in 1992. Jim asked ChatGPT a variety of questions and he got back usually well-written answers. [5:33] To test ChatGPT on a task a human probably couldn’t do quickly, Jim asked it, “Write a Java computer program that will take the input of two people’s names and an adjective describing their relationship and create a poem written in Iambic Pentameter.” Within seconds, it wrote a Java program that was pretty close to being exactly what Jim had asked for. [6:17] Jim clarified his question and ChatGPT gave him a better result. Then Jim asked it to write the program in Python and it instantly supplied the Python code on half a sheet. It gave a more concise answer than a human coder might have given and it was good code. [7:01] Jim and Jan share some questions he asked and the answers from ChatGPT from about three months ago. [7:14] Q. Write a 500-word essay on leadership. The answer came in about 35 seconds and it was amazing. Then Jim asked, “How many words is that essay?” It said 532. Jim asked why it went over. It said leadership is a complex topic and hard to explain. [7:54] This morning Jim asked it the same question: Write a 500-word essay on leadership. ChatGPT has gotten a lot busier, with more users. The response today took six minutes. It was very well written again and similar to the first response but it was much more concise at 372 words. ChatGPT is having a deep impact on university students and the way they study. It is a fantastically useful and powerful tool. [8:53] Jan hears people afraid that ChatGPT will take their job. He recently demoed ChatGPT to a CEO. When the CEO asked, Why are there silos developing in my organization? It gave these answers: Lack of communication/collaboration, competition for resources, different goals and priorities, silos created by structure, or resistance to change. That gave Jan and his client five things to explore together. [10:56] If you only had pliers before, now you have a vice grip. What sticks out for Jan is that he has to ask it very good questions and then, exercise his judgment and decide what to look at. [11:27] What Jan did with his CEO client was look at different goals and priorities. They have a retreat planned where each attendee will bring a list of five important priorities and will make sure everyone is clear on roles and responsibilities and where there is overlap. Jan — not ChatGPT — will facilitate the discussion. Jan sees it as an awesome tool. [12:03] Some people get better and quicker responses than others when searching on Google because they know how to ask questions the right way for good search results. That skill is super important with ChatGPT. You get better by practicing and using it. [12:45] There are some things that it can do quickly that might take weeks for a human to do. Jim asked, What are the top five themes articulated in The Leadership Podcast? [13:41] ChatGPT answered, “As an AI language model, I don’t have personal opinions but I can provide you with an overview of some of the most commonly discussed themes on The Leadership Podcast, based on the content available on their website and podcast. Here are five possible themes: Leadership …, personal development, team dynamics, innovation and disruption, business and industry insights.” [14:27] ChatGPT took about a minute to make that analysis. It had indexed and searched the entire site for The Leadership Podcast, so it knows about it. Jim had asked it the same question two months ago before it was able to search websites. Now it can. Its functionality is increasing at a geometric pace. [15:16] ChatGPT is a fun, powerful tool, and its answers are exceptionally well done. Another question was, Can you measure leadership? It came up with a similar answer to a discussion with guest Sarah Wirth - The Leadership Podcast Episode 351. [16:28] Jan asked ChatGPT When I interview Jim Vaselopulos from Rafti Advisors for my podcast, what should I ask him? ChatGPT responded, “As a business strategist and leaders consultant, Jim is able to provide valuable insights on various topics related to business management leadership. Here are some questions to ask during the interview. …” [16:51] “ … How has the COVID-19 pandemic impacted business strategies in leadership and how can organizations adapt to these changes?”, “Can you share a memorable experience from your career that taught you an important lesson about leadership?”, “What inspired you to become a strategist and leadership consultant?” [17:22] “Can you share a particularly successful project you had with a client and what made it successful?” These are good generic questions. They provide a good starting point. Jim cites Atomic Habits, by James Clear. If you want to run, start by putting your shoes on. Then you generally follow through. ChatGPT is a tool to help you jumpstart a report or analysis. It can help you get moving. [18:53] Jan is working with an organization with five good values that has not articulated its values into observable behaviors. One of the values is accountability. Jan asked ChatGPT, What three observable behaviors would you assign to the value of accountability? ChatGPT’s response was, “Honesty and transparency, reliability and follow through, adaptability and continuous improvement.” [19:26] Under “continuous improvement,” ChatGPT added, “They take feedback constructively, they recognize mistakes or failures can be opportunities for growth and learning, they’re willing to adjust their approach …” Jan asked if you, the listeners, know what the values mean in your organization? Don’t follow a robot blindly, but ChatGPT gives a great starting point for a discussion on values. [20:25] Jan says, oftentimes, those [company] values are ambiguous, the culture is by default, and the values and standards cannot be upheld because there’s no agreement on what they mean. There’s no common vocabulary. That’s something every organization could do today. Look at your values and agree on behaviors to associate with them. Can we be more clear on what we want our folks to do? [21:12] Three years ago, Jim and Jan were asked to go out to the Air University in Montgomery, Alabama. They gave a speech summarizing The Leadership Podcast and the guests they had interviewed and the overarching theme they could find. One of the themes that still continues since then was curiosity. The most successful leaders had the trait of being curious. ChatGPT didn’t come up with that! [21:59] The Leadership Podcast is about curiosity. Learning to use a tool like ChatGPT is about being curious. What are you curious about? [22:28] Jan asked When I interview Jan Rutherford from Self-reliant Leadership for my podcast, what should I ask him? ChatGPT responded “Can you tell us a bit about your background, how you became interested in self-reliant leadership?” and “What are the key traits and characteristics of self-reliant leaders?” It didn’t ask a single COVID-19 question, ask about stories or mention entrepreneurs. [23:06] ChatGPT had picked up on those topics on Jim’s website, not on Jan’s. There were relevant questions for each Jan and Jim from their websites. [23:18] Another question for Jan was “Are there any common misconceptions or misunderstandings about self-reliant leadership that you would like to clear up?” That’s a good question. During this episode, Jan and Jim were curious, tested their assumptions, and learned something! [23:40] Curiosity is such an important theme. ChatGPT is a vehicle to supercharge your curiosity and enlighten yourself in ways that you couldn’t without reading books that you may not have time to read. [24:27] Simon Sinek was a guest on the show and they asked him, “Where does personal responsibility and a sense of real duty to each other start to play a role, especially now (during the pandemic)?” So Jan asked ChatGPT that question. [24:42] ChatGPT had interesting answers, ending with “To foster a sense of personal responsibility and a duty to each other, it’s important to prioritize empathy, compassion, and kindness. We can start by listening to and understanding the needs and concerns of others, being willing to make personal sacrifices for the greater good, and taking action to support our communities in meaningful ways.” [25:09] Jan plays Simon’s answer: “Trust is a two-way street. Just think of any relationship: friendship, marriage, or anything. Trust is always two ways. In a business context, where there’s formal hierarchy, it is the leader’s responsibility to create the environment in which trust can exist.” [25:41] (Simon continues) “To build a circle of safety and create an environment in which people feel safe to raise their hand and say, ‘I made a mistake,’ or ‘I need help,’ or ‘I don’t understand,’ without any fear of humiliation or retribution. Without any fear that they’ll be on some shortlist by the end of the year. However, it’s everyone’s responsibility to step into that circle of safety.” [25:59] (Simon continues) “Compare it to a personal relationship. It’s very important for at least one person in the relationship to start to create an environment in which the other person feels safe to express themselves or be themselves. But it’s still the responsibility of the other person to take that risk to express themselves or be themselves.” [26:16] (Simon concludes) “It’s the same in business. It’s all fine and good for us to create the environment but people have to take the risk and say, ‘Hey boss, I need help,’ or ‘I made a mistake,’ and to realize that there’s no humiliation or blowback if you do that. In fact, you get his support.” [26:36] The ChatGPT is not about to replace Simon Sinek. He’s wonderful to listen to, he’s articulate. He hit on a lot of the same themes that were in ChatGPT’s answer. Jan finds that interesting. We know this AI today is going to be exponentially better. In less than a year, it may use a voice and cadence to come close to Simon Sinek. Leaders and business people now have another tool in their toolbox. [27:39] We’re still going to need to build relationships; we’re still going to need to be able to exercise judgment. If curiosity is a value in your organization, what does that mean? Are we teaching people to ask better questions and to listen better? Or are we saying go to Toastmasters to learn to be a great speaker and articulate? The emphasis has been on using our mouths instead of our ears! [28:10] To do a school term paper, you come up with an outline and then flesh it out. In practical business, people don’t start with an outline. Powerpoint is the closest thing to an outline for presentations. Make one good point instead of five average points. Two good points and seven bad ones ruin a presentation. ChatGPT can help you sharpen your point and get at it. [29:38] What are the keys to having difficult conversations? ChatGPT answered with seven bullet points taking up three-quarters of a page. Jim lists the bullet points: “Prepare, choose, listen actively, be clear and direct, focus on the issue, offer solutions and options, and follow up.” The supporting information is spot-on. It doesn’t have too many extra words or fluff statements. [30:23] What are the most common mistakes people make when delegating? “Not delegating at all, over-delegating, poor communication, micro-managing, lack of follow-up, not providing sufficient resources, and taking credit.” You have to recognize the efforts and achievements of the person you delegated to. [31:27] For as scary as this new technology can be, we need to adopt it, embrace it, and understand that it’s going to affect all of us in some way, shape, or form. Whether you realize it or not, your employees are using it! Jim shares a client story about it. [32:14] Jan just had a conversation about trust. He cites past guest Margaret Heffernan: Social capital is what happens between people; that relationship. You want to work with people you like, people you respect, and people you trust. Trust takes time and everybody’s busy. [33:28] Jan refers to Lisa McLeod, a sales thought leader, who says “If you can’t understand how you’re making people’s lives better, you can’t sell anything.” It would be so sad to go to work, with whatever tools you use, and not think at the end, “How am I making people’s lives better?” See the interview here: .  [34:10] Jim asked a young salesman what his value proposition was. The salesman listed the product features but Jim wanted to know how the salesman was making his customer’s life better. Jim tells a friend’s story about the pressure-washing cheerleader who lifted his low spirit with kindness and joy. [36:55] Past guest Barry Schwartz told about cancer-ward janitors who weren’t there to clean messes but to provide a better experience for patients. That floor had the best cancer-survival rates because of the janitors who brought them kindness and preserved their dignity. [37:39] Jan recalls how past guest Christophe Morin of SalesBrain uses props. As a prop, Jan holds up an insulated mug his wife got him for Valentine’s Day. Jan asks ChatGPT How does a coffee mug that stays warm improve someone’s life? “A mug that stays warm can be a convenient addition to a person’s daily routine. They can take their time enjoying their drink without having to worry about it getting cold.” [38:53] ChatGPT also says that drinking a hot beverage has been linked to various health benefits, such as improving digestion, boosting metabolism, and reducing the risk of certain diseases. “With a mug that stays warm, one can ensure they’re consuming their hot beverage at the optimal temperature to reap these benefits.” Our business is selling something. Do we understand how it improves someone’s life? [39:20] Is ChatGPT a menace? It might be. Is it something that can improve our life? Jan thinks it will be able to speed up things. It will get us to a point where creating an outline or coming up with some ideas, we’ll let somebody else do that and we’ll focus on the things that only we can do; exercise judgment, cut and paste, modify, edit, or think, and step back. It will help us get better at asking questions. [40:11] What Jan hopes ChatGPT does is allow us to spend more time with each other and improve the relationships we have between people, not on a computer all the time. [40:54] Jim asked ChatGPT to write the Darley ad, and it did! Jim reads the ad. [41:37] Microsoft is incorporating ChatGPT into Bing. [41:51] Jan and Jim would love to hear your feedback on this episode and on ChatGPT. How are you using it? This is a game-changer. Comment on LinkedIn or on Facebook or comment on the episode page. Jan and Jim will respond. [42:28] Closing quote: Remember, “Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius hits a target no one else can see.” — Arthur Schopenhauer   Quotable Quotes from ChatGPT “As an AI language model, I don’t have personal opinions but I can provide you with an overview of some of the most commonly discussed themes on The Leadership Podcast, based on the content available on their website and podcast. Here are five possible themes: Leadership … , personal development, team dynamics, innovation and disruption, business and industry insights.” “As a business strategist and leaders consultant, Jim is able to provide valuable insights on various topics related to business management leadership. Here are some questions to ask during the interview.” “To foster a sense of personal responsibility and a duty to each other, it’s important to prioritize empathy, compassion, and kindness. We can start by listening to and understanding the needs and concerns of others, being willing to make personal sacrifices for the greater good, and taking action to support our communities in meaningful ways.” “[Before a difficult conversation], prepare, choose, listen actively, be clear and direct, focus on the issue, offer solutions and options, and follow up..” “[Mistakes when delegating are] not delegating at all, over-delegating, poor communication, micro-managing, lack of follow-up, not providing sufficient resources, and taking credit.” Resources Mentioned Sponsored by:

Nicole Kalil is the Confidence Sherpa. She’s the author of “Validation is for Parking,” and a leadership strategist, respected coach, speaker, and host of the “This is Woman’s Work” podcast. Nicole sees that women and men approach confidence very differently. She discusses how appearing confident is very different from being confident. Real, authentic confidence produces executive presence, and is a catalyst for effective leadership. Listen in for new insights on confidence and how it affects team success, and professional fulfillment.   Key Takeaways   [1:25] Jan and Jim want to know if you have listened to every episode of The Leadership Podcast. If you have, please drop them a line. They may have something for you! [2:27] Nicole is a partner to her husband, a mom to her nine-year-old daughter, a hotel snob, a wine and cheese enthusiast, and a reluctant Peloton rider. [4:23] Nicole wrote Validation Is For Parking to discuss confidence through a feminine lens. At the time she wrote the book, 92% of business books were written by men. In her finance job, all her mentors were men. Nicole felt an imbalance. She wrote the book with women in mind. Her intention isn’t to be exclusionary. She hopes people who identify as any gender will read it and have good takeaways. [6:29] Nicole took the filters off and wrote what she felt and knew, having women in mind, and sharing stories she felt would be most relevant or help people feel less alone. She wrote it almost as a journal and then realized someone was going to read it! It felt important to her, in writing a book about confidence, to put it all out there and be authentic and true to herself. [8:22] In work environments, confidence is when you trust yourself firmly and boldly. When you walk into an environment where you’re “the other,” you may spend a lot of your energy trying to navigate how to fit into the culture and the environment, and in doing that, you tend to lose some of your authenticity; you tend to lose some of yourself. That impacts your confidence. [9:11] When negotiating for a salary increase or a promotion, women are coming to those conversations with less confidence than their male counterparts because the way they would do it authentically or naturally is different from the way that is being encouraged, supported, trained, or recognized in the culture and environment. Jan cites past guest Jeffrey Pfeffer on the seven rules of power. [10:24] How are we defining power? Nicole defines power as showing up with true and vulnerable emotions, not as inauthentically looking confident or powerful. [12:53] The boss is the keeper of the culture. If your being authentic doesn’t fit in the culture, this is the opportunity for the boss to say, “This is just not the right place for you.” [13:16] If you’re accentuating something about yourself so much that it’s repellent to others it may be worth questioning if you are actually showing up authentically at all. You’re probably doing that in reaction. Nicole shares an experience from when she was trying to fit in. Looking back, she sees that was not her authentic self. [15:34] There isn’t one right, definitive answer to just about anything. We come to every situation, conversation, or event with our beliefs, values, experiences, and interpretations, and we think that those experiences, interpretations, and values are right or true with a capital T. What one person believes is right and true may not be right and true for everybody. [16:31] Nicole is trying to practice being more empathetic, better listening, being more open, and communicating, “This is the way I see it and I’m open that there may be another way to see it,” and being curious about that. [16:49] Nicole sees all of those things as a practice in being and becoming a better leader. They make us better relationship-builders, and developers of others, and create safer, healthier, and more productive environments. [18:24] Leadership and allyship are very closely connected. Be curious, listen. When you ask a question, believe what people are telling you is their perception or interpretation, and try to have empathy around that. All of us have the opportunity to create more balance. [18:57] Understand that the masculine approach to success in business is alive and well. There is the opportunity to bring in, recognize, and reward the more feminine side, as well, within yourselves and your organization, and your culture. Be aware and pay attention. [19:26] It helps people to have someone they trust and have a good relationship with. Be a coach to others when they say something that they may have meant in one way, but that might have been interpreted in another way. Most people can be very forgiving if they know you’re coming from a good place. Knowing where you’re coming from makes all the difference in the world. [22:21] Nicole discusses executive presence. It’s external; what we show to the world. We have an impact on how people see us. Nicole distinguishes it from confidence. Confidence is about firm and bold trust in self. Confidence in others is trust in them. Confidence leads to executive presence and that leads to leadership. [24:02] If you bypass confidence and go for executive presence, you can look confident but at some point, if the internal component isn’t there, it’s going to become painful to you and obvious to others. Don’t be focused on how you look to others but on who you are and what you bring to the table; what it is you can, and choose to, trust in yourself. [25:24] Nicole discusses the gender component of confidence vs. competence. Women tend to over-rotate on competence. They believe they need to do it all, have it all, and look the part; get all the designations and check all the boxes. It’s very much about how it looks. But you cannot be competent at anything you’re doing for the first time. Competence takes time. [26:00] Confidence is a choice we can make any time we want. Confidence is on the road to competence. Competence will then circle back and increase your confidence as you go. But there’s always something more to learn and skills to develop before you are fully competent. Instead of “Fake it till you make it,” Nicole says, “Choose it until you become it.” Choose confidence continually. [26:55] Women, especially, feel they need to be 100% ready before taking big actions. But 100% ready is not available to any of us when it comes to doing something new. We do most meaningful things with a combination of excitement, fear, readiness, and doubt. [27:34] For a lot of women it’s letting go of the unachievable expectation that you’re going to be 100% anything. Trust that you’ll figure it out as you go. Trust that if you don’t do well, you’ll be OK; you’ll learn something to take to the next thing you do. Trust that you’ve done what got you here, and you can apply your unique talents, strengths, and abilities to this new thing and you will get there. Trust in yourself. [29:03] Nicole saw integrity as strong moral principles or being honest. Her background is in finance, where being honest is important, and doing what’s best for your clients. In terms of a strong moral standing, who decides what that is? Do personal things bleed into the definition? Nicole had a struggle with the word, which forced her to look at the definition. [30:08] Nicole loves the second definition of integrity: the state of being whole and undivided. That’s what we need to be talking about, is being so true and trusting in ourselves that we show up with all that we are, we own everything that we’re not, and we choose to embrace all of it. And that would lead us to bring our full and best selves to the leadership table, to our businesses. [30:52] Nicole sees power and magic in knowing who we are, owning who we are not, choosing to embrace all of it, and showing up as our full and best selves. That’s how we should be talking more about integrity. [31:46] We’ve over-rotated in society and we try to “save” people every time they express that they are not meant for something. We think everybody can be anything they want to be. That’s not an available option for any of us. And, unfortunately, we think that we should do and be everything. What we end up doing is watering down our unique abilities and unique talents by trying to be everything. [32:32] Nicole refers to Essentialism, by Greg McKeown (a previous guest). We don’t stay in our lane because we don’t spend any of our time figuring out what our lane is. In order to do that, we need to know what our lane isn’t. There is power in owning what and who you are not meant for; what and who may not be meant for you. Being able to discern that will put you on track for what you are meant for. [33:16] Purpose is not one thing but we all have a purpose. It’s confidence-boosting to sift out the things that are not meant for you. [34:42] The biggest “Aha” that Nicole would tell her younger self is how much her failures, missteps, mistakes, fears, and doubts built her confidence and contributed to her success and purpose, more than her achievements, successes, wins, and things that came easily. It doesn't hurt any less when she’s in it, but when she’s experiencing bad feelings, she tells herself all that’s missing is the benefit of hindsight. [35:26] Nicole reminds herself that she doesn’t yet know why the negative thing is happening, but she trusts that it is serving a purpose. It’s a gift, a lesson, a redirect, or an opportunity. There’s some other way to see the thing that’s happening that is going to work for her betterment. She trusts that in those moments. She wishes she would have failed more often and risked more, earlier on. [36:40] Letting your children or employees fall is a struggle, but they go through it for their growth. You want to protect. You want them to be happy. Nicole and her husband are clear that they want to protect their daughter as much as they can from things that fall under health and safety that are very difficult to recover from. On other things, it is better to just let it play out and get messy. [37:44] Nicole tells her daughter that she loves her all of the time. It’s constant and does not need to be earned. She doesn’t need to prove herself to get it. The love is constant even in the messiness, failure, and mistakes. She can figure all the rest of it out. She encourages her daughter to hold onto her own confidence when it gets challenged. [39:08] Nicole’s challenge to listeners: “Separate all the advice, advertisements, and things on social media that tell you that the way you gain confidence is by fixing how your confidence looks to others. If it’s external, it’s probably not confidence-building. Go back to ‘Confidence is when you trust yourself.’ … Ask yourself, ‘Is this going to help me trust myself more?’ If the answer is yes then go do it!” [40:25] Closing quote: Remember, “To be yourself in a world that is constantly trying to make you something else is the greatest accomplishment.” — Ralph Waldo Emerson   Quotable Quotes “So much of what we learn about what it is to be professional, what it is to be successful, what it is to be a leader, or what it is to be confident comes from the masculine lens. I worked in finance and almost exclusively, all of my mentors, trainers, and teachers were men.” “When you walk into an environment where you’re ‘the other,’ … a lot of people spend a lot of their energy trying to navigate how to fit into the culture and the environment, and in doing that, we tend to lose some of our authenticity; we tend to lose some of ourselves.” “We are often being taught how to look confident. Very rarely taught how to be or become confident.” “I have a fundamental belief that leaders are keepers of the culture and if somebody being their authentic self doesn’t fit in a culture, then it’s probably the opportunity to say, ‘You’re not bad, we’re not bad, this is just not the right place for you.’” “The older I get the more I realize that there isn’t one right, definitive answer to just about anything.” “We are all coming to every situation, conversation, or event with our own beliefs, values, experiences, and interpretations, and unfortunately, we are thinking that those experiences, interpretations, and values are right or true with a capital T.” “[Let] people know ‘I’m going into this uncomfortable place. I might say things wrong; I might do things wrong. But my intention is only ever, always to get better. I’m open to feedback. If I make mistakes [please] pull me aside and tell me about it.’” “Confidence is about trust; firm and bold trust in self. So when we talk about being confident, that’s what I think we are talking about.” “One hundred percent ready is not a thing that’s available to any of us when it comes to doing something new or that we haven’t done before.” “That’s what we need to be talking about, is being so true and so trusting in ourselves that we show up with all that we are, we own everything that we’re not, and we choose to embrace all of it. And that would lead us to bring our full and best selves to the leadership table.”   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by:

Ed O’Malley is the Founder of the Kansas Leadership Center, President and CEO of the Kansas Health Foundation, and the author of four books, including his latest, “When Everyone Leads.” Ed discusses how leadership differs from authority, and that authority is required to lead. He explores the disruptive aspects and the risks of leadership. Ed explains the type of problems authority solves and the challenges that require unleashing the leadership of the whole team to move forward. Listen in for how to move forward when faced with daunting challenges.   Key Takeaways [3:25] In Ed’s book, When Everyone Leads, the key is getting people to separate leadership from authority. In some situations, the reliance on authority gets in the way of progress. We need people to know that even if you’re not the captain of the team or boss, the toughest challenges require your leadership, also. The book is about how you unleash that in everybody. [4:45] Ed talks about over-reliance on authority. Authority is necessary, but it’s not sufficient for making progress on our biggest problems. Challenges between people need to be resolved by the people involved. [6:14] On our toughest challenges, none of us know exactly the way forward. Trust that the collective is stronger than one person’s idea. If we unleash the leadership of others, so they feel empowered to exercise that leadership, then we start making more progress. [6:49] If we assume that we have the answers and we know the best way forward, that conveys a lack of trust in the collective. The toughest challenges get solved by people working together. [8:46] The book is about the toughest challenges. A prerequisite for unleashing leadership in more people is to help people break apart the idea of leadership from the idea of authority. They are different things and people know this intuitively. Ed uses the example of Rosa Parks showing leadership by choosing her seat on the bus. [10:20] Ed wants people to be conscious of the differences between authority, leadership, people holding positions of authority, and people exercising leadership. Sometimes people in authority exercise leadership. Sometimes People not in authority exercise leadership. Sometimes nobody does. If people see it separately, it opens up a conversation about what the exercise of leadership looks like for them. [11:22] Jim cites Jim Detert, author of Choosing Courage, regarding the courage it takes to step up and face big problems. [12:08] Julia McBride, Ed’s co-author on the book, would say it’s all about clarity of purpose. Those who exercise effective leadership are clear in their deep purpose, and clear on the purpose for the meeting they’re walking into and the role they play in that meeting. They’re clear on the purpose of the project they’re a part of. [12:46] A lot of people’s purpose is to keep their boss happy. Our toughest challenges are usually about something a lot bigger than that. Leadership is motivating others to make progress on daunting challenges and it hardly ever happens. [14:24] Ed cites the work of authors Ron Heifetz and Marty Linsky who pioneered the concept of the Zone of Productivity, where there is enough conflict that people are uncomfortable enough to change the status quo, but there is not enough conflict to shut people down. If you don’t have enough conflict, nothing is changing. If you have a lot of heat at work, consider if progress is being made in the work. [15:32] If the conflict or heat from the top is not leading to progress, then it’s time to ask questions and intervene in the lack of progress. [16:52] An executive team needs a common language to talk about the dynamics of productivity. [17:30] Leadership is always about disrupting things. Ed quotes Marty Linsky, “Leadership is disappointing your own people at a rate they can absorb.” When you’re intervening up, you can’t anger the boss too much; you might be out! But If you’re just keeping the boss 100% happy, you might not be doing anything that looks like leadership. [18:02] Jan recalls Jeffrey Pfeffer’s 7 Rules of Power. It’s evidence-based, controversial, and makes people very uncomfortable. Two of the rules are “Break the rules,” and “Show up in a powerful way.” These are hard to do. You’ve got to know how far you can push a boss before you’re damaging yourself. [18:36] Ed goes back to being clear about purpose. If your purpose is to get along, be secure, and not rock the boat, you will not get close to exercising leadership. If your purpose is “I want the best value for my clients,” or “I’m a sales leader and I’m taking the organization from this level to that level higher,” then you’ll be willing to disrupt the norms. Leadership is always disruptive and risky. [19:18] Ed says all of our research is showing if you get lots more people exercising leadership and intervening to create more progress it makes it more likely you’ll get the progress. It’s too tough for one or two people to do alone because it’s too disruptive. [20:01] A chapter in the book explores the clash of values. Our toughest challenges are often about value clashes. You may have a value of gaining market share and a clashing value of playing it safe and not developing new products because you have a legacy product that has been winning for so long. Leadership is always about helping a system elevate one value over another. There is loss in that. [21:31] Anyone can ask powerful questions. Ed explains that a powerful question comes from deep curiosity and it’s open-ended. A question that has an exact technical answer is not a powerful question, it’s a fact-based question. Powerful questions help everyone learn. “What’s our greatest aspiration for our organization?”, “What concerns us the most?”, “What makes progress so hard on those things?” [22:56] Big open-ended questions are powerful and are often game-changing. Powerful questions often make us uncomfortable. They should force us to slow down a little bit and reflect differently. [24:33] Ed interviewed a sage one time who told him, “Ed, that’s a great question! And it’s a great question because it doesn’t have any answers!” If there’s an easy answer, it might not be a good question. [25:01] If what you’re working on isn’t a daunting challenge; if it’s run-of-the-mill stuff; if you’ve got a deadline and the work is technical, and you’ve got to meet it, you’re going to drive everybody crazy if you’re walking around asking big, open-ended questions all the time! It’s when you’re trying to focus people on the things that matter most that these powerful questions are so needed. [26:10] Less senior people may be granted some grace in asking open-ended questions to reveal less knowledge of the organization’s purpose. More senior people may ask powerful questions that tend to shape expectations: “How will we respond to some inevitable failure in our attempts to do X?” This introduces the concept of being adaptive. [28:49] The book discusses technical problems vs. daunting adaptive challenges. If you have the authority, say, “We’re solving this technical problem this way.” But it is a mistake to treat a daunting adaptive challenge as if it were technical. Those types of challenges where the problem is poorly defined and the answer is unknown cannot be solved by your authority alone. You won’t get progress. [30:34] Jan tells about Bill Dean. They would be at a problem situation and Bill would say, “OK.” It meant he acknowledged, he understood, and they would step back and pause before trying to find out what the issue was. He said OK, and everybody knew it was going to be OK. Jan learned to step back when people are hitting the Panic button. Ed says, on the toughest challenges, help people to go slow. [33:32] Have the awareness to discern when you’re facing something adaptive where you don’t know the way forward. In that situation, progress is about creating a system that can be iterative, that can be experimental, that can take smart risks, learn from them, and take bigger risks. If the situation doesn’t call for that and we bring it, we’re just going to create more problems. [34:10] There are a lot of big ideas in the book. One is knowing the difference between the technical problems and the adaptive challenges. They require you to lead differently. Another idea is that your authority is a resource but it is not enough to solve adaptive challenges, so you unleash leadership for others in an iterative, learning environment where risk-taking is expected. [36:25] There are expectations on those in authority. Ed repeats that leadership is disappointing your people at a rate they can absorb. People have expectations of those in authority and history is full of examples of what happens to people in authority if they disrupt those expectations too much. Live within the expectations, but push against them, as well. [37:04] Ed explores how those in authority successfully used leadership during the pandemic to be firm and specific about the process they would use to solve the issue without going into what the outcome of the issue would be. They used authority to help people feel safe and that there is some order to things. They talked about the timeline for bringing the best people together to solve the problem. [38:16] Jim compares how Jessica Chen from the previous podcast episode described the same situation of describing the process you are going through to arrive at an answer when dealing with ambiguity. Jim recommends listening to that episode, as this is a big and important concept. Ed agrees, it is important, but it is hard to practice. Go back to knowing whether it is an adaptive challenge or a technical problem. [39:31] If it’s a technical problem and you are in authority, use your authority to solve the problem. For listeners who aren’t in authority, Ed reminds you to break apart authority and leadership. If you connect them, it lets everybody off the hook, and it’s the CEO’s job. That puts too much pressure on those in authority. They can’t deliver. The truth is, in the big tough challenges, we’ve all got a part in the mess. [40:25] Jack Welch said, “You can’t scale complexity.” Ed’s book leads toward simplifying our approach. Jan recommends listeners read Ed’s book. It’s easy to read and laid out in a way that’s very pragmatic. [42:06] Ed’s challenge to listeners: “I think we’ve got to get the bat off our shoulder and take some swings. … Learn how do you take those swings with confidence and skill so you can get a few more hits than you would otherwise.” [44:12] Closing quote: Remember, “Unity is strength…  When there is teamwork and collaboration, wonderful things can be achieved.” — Mattie Stepanek   Quotable Quotes “We need people to know that even if you’re not the captain of the team, the boss, the CEO of the company, or the mayor of the town, the toughest challenges require your leadership, also.” “I think we have an over-reliance on authority. Authority is useful; it’s necessary, but it’s insufficient for making progress on our biggest challenges.” “A prerequisite for unleashing leadership in more people is to help people break apart the idea of leadership from the idea of authority. We’ve got to get people to see them as two different things. They are totally separate. And I think that intuitively, people know this.” “Authority is a role; it’s a position, and leadership is an activity. And sometimes those in authority exercise it. But most of the time they don’t. And sometimes people not in authority exercise leadership. But a lot of times, they don’t.” “The book is counter-cultural, in that regard. We’re trying to create a new norm for what leadership even is.” “Leadership is always about disrupting things.” “Leadership is so rare because it’s risky; … it’s disruptive, which is why all of our research is showing if you get lots more people exercising leadership; intervening to create more progress, it’s … more likely you’ll get the progress. It’s too tough for one or two people.” “Big open-ended questions are powerful and they’re often game-changing.” “If what you’re working on isn’t a daunting challenge; if it’s run-of-the-mill stuff; if you’ve got a deadline and the work is technical, and you’ve got to meet it, you’re going to drive everybody crazy if you’re walking around asking big, open-ended questions all the time.” “It’s when you’re trying to focus people on the things that matter most that these curiosity-based, open-ended, powerful questions are so needed.”   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by:

Jessica Chen is an Emmy Award winner, keynote speaker, former journalist, and CEO of the global business communications agency Soulcast Media. She is a top LinkedIn Learning instructor with over two million learners on self-awareness, personal branding, and executive presence. In this conversation, Jessica shares her knowledge of the essential qualities linked to emotional intelligence. This episode contains counsel for leaders on communication, storytelling, and self-confidence.   Key Takeaways [2:50] Jessica recently became a new mom. Her little boy just turned one. Becoming a mother was a huge life transition for Jessica. She read parent books about it, but when the baby was born, Jessica learned you’ve just got to roll with the punches, taking care of a baby. [5:55] Jessica teaches executive presence as how you make other people feel. It depends on the situation and the people. It is learning the soft skills of emotional intelligence. Unconscious bias leads to differences in application between men and women leaders and young and old leaders. Having self-awareness, and speaking clearly and precisely can help you show up and be heard as you want. [8:38] Building credibility is learning how to talk about the things that you have done and owning that. That’s a part of showing up. [10:17] Do you deal with a difficult boss? It’s hard to do good work when you’re micromanaged. Jessica asks, how can you reduce this communications friction? Ask yourself, “What does my manager care about?” Speak their language, consider to whom they are accountable, make them look good, and anticipate what they need. Care about what your manager cares about. Then they will feel you get it. [12:19] If your boss is a bully, that is a terrible position to be in. If you have identified that your boss is completely treating you unfairly, that is not the right environment for you. Ask yourself what are your options. [14:27] If you have lots of substance but very little style, Jessica has some tips for you. Put some color in your speech. Growing up as a woman in a traditional Asian family, Jessica was not taught to put color in her conversation. She was taught to do the work without disturbing anybody. That way of working is not going to help you build the visibility you need in a workplace with charismatic people. [15:24] Style is what makes you memorable. We all have to do good work and perform in our job. It’s expected. What makes you memorable is your ability to add some color, meaning energy. The words that you choose to say and the energy and emotion you use can make you stand out with color and style. Finding your color and style makes you memorable. [16:55] Jessica talks about brand. Jessica calls it your career brand. All of us need to think about building a career brand. It’s not about social media, although she says LinkedIn is a fantastic place to build your career brand and thought leadership. Thought leadership is important in people seeing you as an expert. [17:47] For listeners not on LinkedIn, consider how you can build thought leadership within your team and organization. Seek opportunities to contribute to a workplace blog. Or simply be more visible by getting on board with some projects so people in other departments can see you. [19:33] A person at a company can make a story good by humanizing it. Who are the people that the numbers in your presentation represent? Behind every customer number is a person with experience and a journey. Humanize the metrics to share the difficult journey the customer went through. Don’t just report the issue, find somebody to report the issue through. [22:35] To influence your team to adopt a new process, tell the process through someone’s lived experience. Use a made-up name with a real event. [24:03] Jan and Jessica both acknowledge and thank Dean Karrel at LinkedIn Learning for connecting them. Dean is the ultimate connector, asking for nothing in return. [26:23] In the working world, you need to take a lot of information and condense it. The schools should teach conciseness and precision in our speaking. If you’re speaking too long, pause and ask yourself this question, “What’s the point I’m trying to make?” Then get back on track and get to the point. You can say it out loud: “What I’m trying to say here is, A, B, and C.” [29:13] Jessica shares an aphorism: “A wealth of information creates a poverty of attention.” In communication, capturing people’s attention should be your priority. Think about what your audience wants to hear and what they care about. You may have 10 things to share, but what are the three things you want everyone to walk away with? It takes more work to winnow it down, but it is well worth it. [31:03] Good presenters connect their points seamlessly. They communicate the link between the points. It’s up to the presenter to talk about that. Use transition words, like “In addition,” or “this brings me now to this point.” Present the relationship between A, B, and C clearly. [33:02] Jessica prefers to prepare carefully rather than be thrust into a high-pressure situation where she has to think on her feet. But she had experience in her journalism days of being thrown into a breaking news situation and having to report the story as it unfolds. Sometimes on the scene, it is sufficient to report what you have already done. That may be what people want to know. [34:03] Communicating the process is a part of communicating and people appreciate it. [36:20] Jessica taught a LinkedIn Learning course on Speaking Up at Work. If she could go back and add one thing to that course, it would be along the lines of building an inclusive speaking environment. How can we all take a proactive approach to making others feel more comfortable speaking up? How can we pave the way for the more quiet person to raise their hand? The loudest person often gets the attention. [38:34] Western society values people who are able to speak up. Eastern culture doesn’t tend to put as much value in verbalizing thoughts but the people still have thoughts. Folks who are working with Asians or other minorities on their teams need to be open-minded about some of these assumptions. Being quiet doesn’t mean they don’t care or they’re not engaged. They still want to contribute. [40:00] It can be detrimental to generalize. There are so many different Asian ethnicities. In general, Asian men and women both tend to be humble and show respect and pursue harmony. Being quiet doesn’t mean they don’t have a lot of value to give. [41:28] Past guest, CEO Colleen Abdoulah had a rule at her company, “Hold your views lightly.” Jan and Jessica agree that having self-awareness and open-mindedness about the people in the room and not assuming certain things about them. There is a diversity in thinking and a diversity in processing. That can help us be more inclusive speakers. [43:19] Jessica sees people struggling with confidence in how they show up in the workplace. They don’t feel confident speaking up in a meeting and being perceived the way they want to be perceived. Jessica’s specialty is teaching the communication tool to show up and speak up better. She tells them she is happy they are acknowledging this friction and are taking steps to build their confidence. [44:29] The only way to become more confident is to put yourself in these positions and continuously practice while doing it consciously. [46:38] Jessica’s advice to senior workers who are reluctant to speak up: “These days, there’s always such a reaction to people saying things. … Trust your experience. … Clearly demonstrate your understanding of a thing you want to express. Qualify and quantify what you want to say and then package it in a way that shows your expertise. People will listen. … Own it and provide examples.” [49:21] Jessica’s challenge to listeners: “I truly think communication is one of the most important skills for workplace success, regardless of what level you are at. I would challenge the listeners to think about ‘How can I improve my communication skills this year at work?’ … Whatever it is, there’s always going to be great ROI if you invest in your communication skills.” [50:33] Closing quote: Remember, “Great is our admiration of the orator who speaks with fluency and discretion.” — arcus Tullius Cicero   Quotable Quotes “If I’m doing a presentation and I want to get my team excited … [I] can leverage some of the soft skills to get them to feel that way.” “All of us need to think about building a career brand. But it’s not in the way of social media, especially if you’re working in a typical office. … Though, I will say LinkedIn is a fantastic platform to build your career brand.” “Ask yourself, ‘What’s the point I’m trying to make here?’ … Clarify and get back on track. … Sometimes you’ve just got to remember to reign yourself back in.” “Every good presenter is able to connect their points seamlessly.” “How can we all take a proactive approach to making others feel more comfortable speaking up? How can we pave the way so that the more quiet person on your team feels comfortable raising their hand?” “The only way to become more confident is you just have to put yourself in these positions and continuously practice while doing it consciously, of course.” “Communication is one of the most important skills for workplace success, regardless of what level you are at. … There’s always going to be great ROI if you invest in your communication skills.”   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by:

Jamie Ryder is the founder of Stoic Athenaeum. He’s on a mission to make philosophy sexy and down to earth. He’s focused on breaking stigmas about mental health and leadership. He says that everyone has a philosophy they live by every day and the more they understand their philosophy, the more they will know how to communicate with others. Listen in for wisdom on stepping back for a wider view to move forward.   Key Takeaways [1:57] When Jamie was young, he wanted to be either a wrestler or a writer; two different types of storytelling. He always liked the larger-than-life characters of wrestling. When he was 16, he trained as a wrestler in Manchester. But while wrestling was fascinating, he had more aspirations to write stories. [4:32] Jamie believes philosophy needs to be lived. He has never been trained in philosophy academically. He describes the attraction Stoic philosophy holds for him, including the mental health aspect of it. Everybody has a philosophy or values they show up in the world with, that makes them who they are. It’s something that you live and breathe. [5:54] Jamie believes there are therapeutic mental health benefits to philosophy. [6:44] Philosophy permits you to be vulnerable with yourself. There is always an amount of uncertainty you will have to deal with. Stoicism helps Jamie identify the things he can or can’t control and navigate uncertain situations, such as the pandemic. [7:17] Jamie recommends two practical exercises: “The Premeditation of Adversity,” attributed to Seneca, and “The View from Above,” by Marcus Aurelius. The Premeditation of Adversity builds resilience. Imagine the worst-case scenario and prepare for it. It helps Jamie calm down any anxiety he has about upcoming events. The View from Above is to take a high-level perspective of a situation. [10:01] Give yourself permission to carve out time to practice The Premeditation of Adversity before events and The View from Above after events. [12:00] By studying philosophy, Jamie learned that values are intrinsic in us and we have the power to make experiences make sense to us. By looking at different philosophers and schools of thought, Jamie instilled their activities and lessons into his life. Philosophy is a lot of small acts you do again and again. It becomes accessible and habit-forming as you repeat the exercises. [13:43] Jamie would recommend that you start exploring philosophy with Meditations, by Marcus Aurelius. You don’t need to know philosophy or Stoicism to understand Meditations. Marcus Aurelius was journaling for himself, 2,000 years ago. You can see he was trying to be an honorable person. If he had a bad day, he tried something different. On the second reading, it took on new meaning for Jamie. [15:09] Jamie also recommends Letters from a Stoic, by Seneca. Seneca was writing to his friend, distilling lessons he’d learned over a lifetime. You can pick one letter to read a day, and you will find something that resonates with you today from 2,000 years ago. [15:36] Stoicism was Jamie’s gateway into philosophy. He has also studied Skepticism, Existentialism, and Epicureanism. Another book recommendation Jamie gives is The Essays, by Michel de Montaigne. What de Montaigne wrote about a few hundred years ago are the same issues people face day in and day out. [18:09] Jamie explains the symbiotic relationship between creativity and curiosity. [20:10] Stoic philosophy involves stepping back and slowing down, which is different from typical business goals. At its crux, it’s about trying to focus on what you can control and what you can’t control. It means taking a break from things. [21:45] Jamie shares tips for creative writing for business: have a tone-of-voice guide beforehand and then you can push the message across social media, emails, and wherever you need to be to communicate that message. Create it in a voice that makes sense to you and has a connection to the audience you are trying to build community with. [23:30] Michel de Montaigne created the genre of philosophical writings known as essays. He created boundaries around himself where he could be alone, take a moment to breathe, and be himself. [26:36] Writing tips: Start with writing a stream of consciousness. This goes back to de Montaigne. Create an environment where you feel comfortable, such as going for a walk or an activity that you are happy to do. Take a step back, then go back to it. Read as much as possible and pick out ideas you might not have thought about before. Distill it down into what you are trying to create on the page. [28:05] To learn storytelling, start with authenticity. “This is my story. I’ve been through this and it makes sense to me. It communicates to the audience, as well.” It needs to have substance and reflect your values and principles. If there is a cause you support, you need to have the substance behind it, as well. Use ethical rhetoric to support a cause that has substance. [29:13] Cicero used rhetoric to great effect. Aristotle introduced the three proofs: Logos, Pathos, and Ethos. [30:28] Leaders need to be concerned about their people; they need to learn to lead themselves so they can lead others. Logos is for persuasion. Ethos is your character. Pathos is connecting with people and empowering them to share their emotions or connect with their customers. Others have different views. [32:18] Jamie’s storytelling advice to leaders: Ask questions and learn from the stories of people around you but “You need your personal values that work into that to create your unique and authentic story, as well. … I would just always remember that it’s always a learning experience.” [34:49] Closing quote: Remember, “A man who fears suffering is already suffering from what he fears.” —   Quotable Quotes “When I was young, I either chose to be a wrestler or a writer; [they’re] different types of storytelling. … I chose to be a writer but I will always appreciate what [wrestling] taught me.” “There is a tendency to say that philosophy can seem quite high-minded or academic, … where it’s not, because it is something that you live and breathe.” “Prior to the pandemic, I felt quite burnt out about a few things, but then, while discovering the subject of philosophy, it clicked, in the sense that it’s something that you can control within the Stoic aspect. … From a mental health aspect, it made a lot of sense for me.” “I would always recommend Marcus Aurelius’s Meditations, because that, to me, is a book that you don’t even need to know what philosophy is, or Stoicism is, to really get to it. In context, Marcus was literally just writing to himself 2,000 years ago.” “It’s about balance, as well. … Sometimes you do need to take that step back and just reassess.” “[To write effectively,] create an environment for yourself where you feel comfortable. … Read as much as possible, … picking ideas from things that are outside your comfort zone, … and then just distilling it down.” “It starts with authenticity. … Creating that sense that ‘This is my story,’ or “I’ve been through this.’”   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by:

Patrick Bryant is a serial entrepreneur, professional speaker, and co-founder and CEO of software product agency CODE/+/TRUST. After co-founding Go To Team, Patrick launched six multi-million-dollar companies, in media, and software. Patrick shares wisdom gained from his experience in start-ups, his origin as a journalist, what he accomplished in video, and the CODE/+/TRUST “BHAG” for powering startups around the U.S. He discusses culture, scaling, storytelling, and how the first thing for an entrepreneur to do is to start.   Key Takeaways [1:15] If you have listened to every episode of The Leadership Podcast, please contact Jan and Jim to let them know. They would love to hear it and there might be something in it for you! [2:27] Most people don’t know that Patrick owns a rolling paper company that he started after investing in a cigar company. Most people know him from software, media, and other things, like speaking. [3:40] Patrick’s always getting into unexpected situations. He just keeps showing up for work and looking for interesting things. He’s curious and asks questions. His original profession was journalism and he learned to study industries and areas of interest to him. Many times, it results in a business idea. When he sees an opportunity, he strikes it. [6:07] Patrick believes entrepreneurship is the number one change agent in the world. It is amazingly helpful to society to do something new and do it right. [7:19] There are businesses that are built to scale and others that are not. In a field, you may have grass, bushes, and a large oak tree. The large oak tree did not start as a blade of grass! It takes time to know the “species” of businesses. Patrick started the video company, Go To Team, 25 years ago. It has 16 offices around the U.S. It hit a $1 million valuation when it was 10 years old. That felt great to Patrick! [8:43] Another company that started the same week as Go To Team is Google. In 10 years, Google had been publicly traded and people were using its name as a verb! Patrick wondered what he was doing wrong. He started to study innovation scale — how to build companies and products that are built to move quickly in a big way and be sold around the world. That pushed Patrick toward software. [9:58] Scaling is different between software and service companies. A service company can go a long time with continued operation, but not a lot of growth. A software product requires investments and a certain level of sales. If the sales don’t come, it’s over. The money’s gone and the investors aren’t going to pour more money into the company. There is risk involved in software. [12:43] Journalism, television, and all media have changed greatly since the start of the internet. There is confusion and fragmentation. Patrick foresees us slowly getting back to moderation and looking for experts and gatekeepers we can trust to provide us with the content we want in the way we want it. We don’t yet have the new Walter Cronkite or Tom Brokaw. [15:39] Patrick’s company, CODE/+/TRUST, sells code and trust. They help people start software companies. Their “BHAG” is to power 500 software startups in every state in the U.S. and be an official software development firm for entrepreneurs. They want to connect with good ideas, spend a lot of time on them, grow them, feel good about what they produce, and help entrepreneurs make money. [18:41] First and foremost, get one thing right. You can have multiple ways to attack a problem but you can only have one mission. The mission and values cannot change. [19:15] Patrick is working on a TEDx speech for March on the schizophrenic nature of advice to entrepreneurs. For instance, Winston Churchill’s message of never giving up contrasts with the advice to fail fast. All leaders need to understand this: mission and values do not move. We are not giving up on our mission. Tactics and goals that don’t get us there need to be stopped. [21:51] Patrick’s big “Aha” moment is that not all advice is equal. Advice from your Grandma on how to live a good life might be great, but her advice on how to run your business might not be great. Where does the advice come from? How does it work with your core values? [23:14] Advice can be great for one individual that’s not great for the next one. Patrick is a value investor. He likes to buy stocks that are low, for the long term. That’s what he reads about. Blogs about day trade opportunities are not useful advice for him. Patrick says that if every CEO learned the right way to take advice, they would be the last 10% of “amazing.” It’s one of the hardest things. [25:34] Patrick separates User Experience from Customer Experience or navigating the software from working the sales funnel. Patrick focuses on providing customers with what they need, not what they want. Henry Ford said that if he asked his customers what they wanted, they would have said, “a faster horse.” We have to have the view that we know some things about where the customer wants to go. [27:05] Patrick’s business partner, CTO at CODE/+/TRUST, does software design. He’s opinionated and will stand his ground in a positive way with customers because he believes he knows where the customer is trying to go. Designers must come to the discussion with views on what they believe for the customer. Patrick shares the surprising results of a Lay’s Potato Chip survey and taste test. [28:59] The Lay’s experience illustrates the way that we have to come to the process, which is customer first, but educated on how to make it as simple and clean and smooth an experience for them as possible, almost regardless of what they think. [30:38] Event.gives is a company of Patrick’s in the non-profit space. Attendees fill out their profiles and can then move from event to event without re-entering their data. Nonprofits argued that it is their data, but Patrick points out that individuals own their data, and they are the ones with the right to release it to the non-profit. Always go back to the individual and what their rights and choices are. [33:20] Software and media for kids have the added responsibility of providing them with reasonable opportunities for learning. Patrick always tries to start at the core mission, protecting people’s privacy, and allowing them the right to control their data. [34:53] As a journalist, Patrick learned that it’s all about telling stories. Master storytellers influence in positive ways. The slogan for Go To Team for years was Passionate Storytellers. Storytelling is a helpful skill that allows you to communicate the data that you want and to emotionally connect with people. The goal is to be ordinarily extraordinary in your storytelling so people connect with your message. [36:29] Patrick explains how to use storytelling to make products socially contagious by connecting the brand to the customer’s lifestyle. [37:32] Do not put your story in an email! How you tell your story depends on who the audience is. Patrick has run a video company for 25 years. He recommends using video to tell your story. It connects to people in a much more important way than the written word. Engaging with people in person and telling your story on stage is incredibly emotional and powerful. Connect with people in person. [39:30] Making people laugh and tugging at their heartstrings brings them along with the story. Use emotion to motivate people, educate them, and make them get excited. [41:59] Patrick refers to himself as a made entrepreneur. He doesn’t have to go to work tomorrow and his basic life needs will be taken care of. Like many of his peers and friends, Patrick enjoys the fight. He enjoys being in the company. He enjoys starting new things. He enjoys the idea stage and helping others and finding connections with the product-market fit. He keeps coming back for that super joy. [42:55] When a company gets to have between 10 and 20 employees and people start asking Patrick about policies, that’s his sign to go and start a new company. He doesn’t want to write policies and procedures around when you get off of work and what days are holidays. He doesn’t think that way. Starting another company re-energizes him to go attack the next idea. [43:51] As Patrick grows a company, and adds people, he’s thrilled by it. He loves it. The mission still stands and the values are great. He can’t wait to see the team execute on the goal. But it’s no longer energizing for him. Starting the rollercoaster over is what he loves. [45:27] Patrick’s closing thoughts, to anyone in a transition stage, just get started. Look for something that you can develop expertise in. What one thing can you do to sell that expertise and move forward an idea in that particular industry, right now, today? “That’s my core advice, just get started.” [47:59] Closing quote: Remember, “Trust is the glue of life. It’s the most essential ingredient in effective communication. It’s the foundational principle that holds all relationships.” — Steven Covey   Quotable Quotes “Well, I don’t know how you could follow my path. I had the interesting time of being on the Mall two years ago, here in Washington D.C., where I am today, for January 6. I think of myself as a little bit of a Forrest Gump. I don’t know how I get into some of these situations!” “I’m just curious. I ask people questions. As a journalist for many years of my life, … I just learned to study and get my head around industries and areas of interest of mine. And many times, that results in a business idea. And when I see opportunity, I strike it.” “Just start something, just talk to someone, just learn what someone needs. … I just don’t understand why entrepreneurs … can’t just take an opportunity and run with it. … So that’s my number one piece of advice … find something you’re interested in and get started.” “I believe entrepreneurship is the number one change agent in the world. I say it on stages around the United States. I just believe that as entrepreneurs, we are doing something profound and exciting when we are developing a new product … or bringing out a new process.” “The best way to make money is to make somebody else more money. That, to me, is where relationships come in and you’re helping someone move forward as an entrepreneur.” “If you show up to help other people and do the good, right thing, you will have business for as long as you can see it because people will acknowledge and trust you and want to work with you on what they need.” “You can have multiple goals; … multiple tactics; … multiple ways that you’re attacking a problem but you can only have one mission. You can have core values that support how you’re going to move forward with that mission. The mission and the values can’t change.” “Advice can be great for one individual that’s not great for the next one.” “The way that we have to come at the process … is, customer first, but educated on how to make it as simple and clean and smooth an experience for them as possible, almost regardless of what they think.” “With storytelling and laughter, camaraderie, and building a culture that people really want to be there; they really want to help move the mission forward, you can get people going 60, 70 miles per hour without a lot of effort.” “Every time I get to a place of success, I immediately start thinking, ‘Man, it would be cool to go back to the beginning. How can we do this again?’ It’s just so much fun to start the rollercoaster over!”   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by:

Jay Goldman is a New York Times best-selling author of “The Decoded Company.” He is also the CEO and Co-founder of Sensei Labs - focused on technology, design, and the art of leadership. The conversation in this episode covers decision-making, connections, the six values of Sensei culture, and putting customers first. Jay urges leaders to have regular conversations with employees and use data to understand them better. Jay considers empathy to be the most important trait of a leader and he elaborates on its importance.   Key Takeaways [2:34] Jay has a 13-year-old daughter and a 12-year-old son. For Jay, parenting and leadership are very close; he uses some of the same principles with his children and in his one-on-one work discussions. [3:39] The book, The Decoded Company, was published in 2014. In the years since then, the world has changed a lot. Much of the book is still relevant, but in hindsight, Jay says they should have put more emphasis on culture. It should be a headline item. That has become more true as Jay continues to grow Sensei Labs, which was spun out of Klick to capitalize on the technology they talk about in the book. [5:34] Jay compares a company’s culture to a garden. The leader makes sure the garden gets enough sunlight, water, and nutrients, weeds the garden and protects it from pests. Leaders can’t directly make the garden grow. They can create all the right conditions for it to grow. If you want certain behaviors, create an environment that encourages those behaviors. It’s dangerous to try to fix people. [8:16] There are more small decisions than big decisions. Your physical space in an office has a big impact on culture. It’s hard to radically change your office space. Day-to-day moments can have just as big an impact. There are many times more of them than there are of the big decisions. Big decisions need to be followed up with lots of small decisions. [10:52] When COVID-19 hit, Sensei Labs was still within the offices of their parent company, Klick. Klick allowed them to stop paying rent, which was very helpful for a small business. In the summer of 2021, as COVID-19 was letting up, Sensei Labs discussed as a team if they needed to take an office. The Toronto group was missing the moments of connectivity, collaboration, and having lunch together. [12:13] After funding, Sensei Labs had almost doubled in size. International associates had never worked in an office together but they wanted the connection shared by the Toronto group. Sensei Group built an office with collaboration rooms but no private offices, desks for everyone there on a day, and multi-use spaces for large meetings and holiday parties. They are not mandating people back to the office. [15:04] Sensei Labs doesn’t say “remote” for people outside the office. Teams pick a day to come in together. They use Teams calls for those who cannot attend that day. They also use Teams calls on cross-team meetings or customer meetings. All meeting rooms are set up for Teams, with good microphones, audio, cameras, and video. Sensei Labs is all hybrid, rather than divided into tiers. [16:21] All “hoteling” desks have a proper monitor and Logitech webcam. There is an events space with a screen that rolls down from the ceiling, a webcam, a projector, and an audio system, so people not present can have the full experience of partaking in the event. There are multiple presenters, some in the building, and some participating by video. All these things help integrate the teams. [17:30] All of that said, you can’t replace the in-person experience, or going out for a coffee or lunch together. Jay loves to see a cross-functional group who have carried in lunch and are eating together. Those are collisions, as Steve Jobs called them, where you get an exchange of ideas and connections between different teams that wouldn’t otherwise form. Those are hard to recreate on Teams or Slack. [18:50] At Sensei Labs, there is a big emphasis on helping each other in a culture where that’s rewarded and recognized. The founders were intentional when they carved Sensei Labs out of Klick to build a culture that was unique to Sensei Labs, built around Enterprise SaaS, customers, and partners. [20:28] As they started, they came up with six values that represent Sensei culture: being Selfless, being Empathetic, being Nimble, being Skilled, being Entrepreneurial, and having Integrity. They built everything they do on the people side of the business around those Sensei values. They have a matrix of every role in the organization with the values, and observable behaviors expected from each role. [21:23] The matrix also shows how to get promoted in terms of what you should be thinking about in observable behaviors for each of the Sensei values for any role. When Sensei Labs does promotions, they evaluate on the Sensei values. The Sensei values are part of their open recognition channel in Teams. Everyone can post recognitions of others and tag them with Sensei values. It’s all intentional. [22:32] Over the last year, Sensei Labs has strongly emphasized CARE requests. Sensei President Benji Nadler came up with the acronym CARE, for Customers Are Really Everything, to reorient everyone’s thinking about customer requests to make them the highest priority. [24:08] An organization that does not give its people regular feedback about results is doing its people a disservice and will not get the results that it wants. In The Decoded Company, there is the Rule of Five Degrees. If you take a boat across a lake, and you’re five degrees off course at the start, it’s an easy correction then. But five degrees off course on the other side of the lake could be miles out of the way. [25:05] If an organization gives performance reviews annually, it’s already crossed the lake. Regular five-degree course corrections throughout the year could prevent an employee from being miles off course at the performance review. Regular feedback corrects behaviors and bridges the gap between behaviors. [26:18] As a privately-held company, Sensei Labs is free to make long-term decisions. Jay picks values even over performance because, in the end, that will have the biggest impact on the business. Staying true to those values will affect whom they hire. [28:14] Sensei Labs operates as a separate organization from Klick and the Sensei teams do not work on Klick’s projects. Sensei is proudly part of the Klick group of companies but there is no need for a tight alignment between the two. There is an overlap in how the two companies express and define their values. Klick has a pyramid of cultural values with the bottom level being their foundational values. [29:00] Jay describes how the layers of the Klick value pyramid match the key inflection points of career advancement. Sensei used the best parts of the Klick values in developing the Sensei Labs values acronym. Sensei looks at the key inflection points of the first time an individual contributor becomes a leader, and the first time a leader becomes a leader of leaders. Those points require different thinking. [30:54] Leadership has a science component. The science of leadership goes back to Taylorism measuring productivity with a stopwatch and optimizing the Ford assembly lines. There’s the possible Hawthorne effect of performance rising because it is measured. The science is how you use the data within an organization to optimize it for talent, centricity, and engagement, the premise of Decoded. [31:48] Jay explains how leadership is an art, requiring a high degree of empathy. You need to be able to understand the individual members of your team and what drives them. Jay values empathy as the most important trait of leadership. Empathy requires engagement, conversations, and knowing each other. It requires some vulnerable moments that establish psychological safety between you and your team. [34:30] People learned hard skills in school and had to figure out the soft skills for themselves. It dodges the responsibility for teaching the part of leadership that is probably more impactful. Jay explores the mistake technology companies often make in promoting engineers into managerial roles with no EQ or managerial skills. That mistake removes a skilled individual contributor and installs an ineffectual leader. [36:54] Instead, create a pathway that allows skilled engineers to remain in their craft but to become leaders, take on more responsibility, and make more money. Both Sensei Labs and Klick have parallel tracks for people leadership and craft leadership. As individuals advance, their time is leveraged so that an hour of their time creates more than an hour of value for the organization. [39:54] The use of Big Data has changed immensely since Decoded was published. The principle is the same, but if they wrote the book today, their take would be very different. Data is more prevalent in business today. [40:20] Most businesses today spend huge amounts on data to understand their customers. They do not use any of the same resources to understand their people. Jay argues that you will have a higher leverage effect by engaging in your team, creating a virtuous cycle of having the best talent on your teams, more customer happiness, more revenue, and hiring even more skilled team members. [42:03] There is a difference between ambient data and self-reported data. Self-reported data is always biased. Teams constantly use tools and that creates a digital body language about what they are working on and who they’re connected with and other factors. That data is available through analysis. Jay calls this data a sixth sense. Have guidelines about using the data, so it’s not uncomfortable. [43:35] There has been good research on 16 indicators that somebody may be thinking about quitting their job. If you could look across those 16 relative attributes of an employee, “Jim”, you could see changes that indicate that something has changed in ”Jim’s” life. Measuring a baseline and looking ad deviations can be telling. How do you react if you suspect “Jim” is thinking of leaving? [45:18] If “Jim,” is a valued member of your team, and you want to make sure that “Jim” is not a flight risk, this might be an indicator to have a conversation. “Just checking in and making sure that everything’s OK. How are you feeling? Can we talk about a career progression or a new project for you to take on?” If you are happy that “Jim” is thinking of leaving, you might start looking at replacements! [46:13] You’ve got five senses. If you can use data as a sixth sense, to augment those five with an extra set of analytic abilities to help you make better decisions faster, that leads to a better outcome. [47:40] Can this ambient data be hacked? Jay would hope people worked in an environment where they didn’t have to prompt the conversation by wearing an interview suit to work. Every organization is a collection of people. Anytime you have a collection of people, you end up with norms and values, whether by design or default. Sometimes you may find shortcuts to get to a desired conversation. [48:38] Mark Raheja taught Jay a management hack in the form of the question, “Is it safe to try?” In most organizations the default is safety. Proposing anything radical means a fight to get to the point of experimenting with it because you are triggering the organization’s autoimmune system. But ask people to come up with a reason it’s not safe to try it. If they cannot, then go ahead with the experiment. [51:19] After six months in his first job out of school at IBM, Jay asked about promotions. His manager told him everybody gets promoted on their first and second anniversary, and in the third year, promotions are earned by merit. Jay recalls, “I started looking for a job that day. And to me, that is the oldest-school thought pattern around what management looks like.” [55:19] Closing quote: Remember, “Leadership is unlocking people’s potential to become better.” — Bill Bradley   Quotable Quotes “Often in a parenting conversation with one of the kids, I’m repeating things that I might have recently said in a one-on-one to someone on my team, and probably more often, in one-on-ones, I find myself repeating things I’ve said in parenting moments.” “It starts to get difficult when you start to say, ‘I want behaviors that I don’t see and my options are either to replace people or fix people,’ and I think that’s a dangerous path.” “Your physical space in an office environment has a big impact on culture. … It’s harder to … radically change the configuration of it. … All those day-to-day moments can have just as big an impact and there are many times more of them than there are of the big decisions.” “In many ways, we are the trailblazers who are out ahead, thinking about culture, thinking about people, and thinking about leadership. And then, there are other places where we’re happy to take a back seat and one of those places is mandating people back to the office.”  “We have a matrix of every role in the organization and all of the values … that everyone has access to. So you can look up any role, and any value, and see what the observable behaviors are that we expect out of that role as well as where you might get promoted to.” “We have an open recognition channel in Teams. Everyone can post recognitions of each other. They tag them with some of the values. … At our Town Hall a couple of weeks ago, we celebrated the people who’ve had the most recognition posts for each of the values.” “Being selfless is about being there for each other and helping each other out and helping our customers and partners as well. These are both internal and external.” “We have the luxury of being able to make long-term decisions when we can and so I would pick values even over performance because, in the end, that is what is going to have the biggest impact on the business. Staying true to those values will affect who you hire.” “We have always looked at the key inflection points of the first time an individual contributor becomes a leader and then the first time they become a leader of leaders. Those are two points at which you have to think very differently about … your success.” “Your best engineers are at least 10 times as good as your worst engineers.” “Anytime you have a collection of people, you end up with norms in that group. You end up with cultural values, whether by design or default.” “In most organizations, the default energy is toward ‘No” and toward safety. … If you propose something radical and new, in almost every organization, you are going to have to fight a fight to get to the point where you can even experiment with this. … Ask ‘Is it safe to try?’” “I do think the tech industry has lots of problems, but it also has lots of great things about it.”    Resources Mentioned Sponsored by:    

Jeremy Foster is the Chief Financial Officer of Austin-based Talroo.com, the data-driven job and hiring advertising platform that helps businesses reach the candidates they need to build their essential workforce. Jeremy shares insights into the key indicators of business valuation: 1) The necessity of leaders knowing the language of finance; and 2) The differences between startups, growth companies, and mature companies. He covers why alignment of the stakeholders is important for a company’s successful scaling, and when to use blitzscaling, if at all. He explains analytics and shares examples from his past and present work, in an educational overview of the interplay between finance, data and decision-making.     Key Takeaways [2:14] Jeremy started in marketing and then ended up leading operations and retail banking for a 15-branch community bank in New Mexico and West Texas. His background was not in accounting or finance. That changes how Jeremy tends to approach the numbers. [2:41] Jeremy explains how he evaluates a business by looking at three numbers: the lifetime value of the customers, the customer acquisition cost, and the total addressable market. Marketing is a key component of each of those numbers. [4:36] Jeremy has worked with startups and scaling businesses. He’s seen a broad spread of financial knowledge within company leadership. Sometimes an executive team has problems because of their different levels of understanding. Do you understand GAAP and income statements? What are revenue, gross profit, and EBITDA; the basic terminology. Some executive teams don’t know these terms. [5:33] The next big question is which financial statement is the most important to look at, the cash flow or the P&L statement? It depends on whether you are a startup or an established company. There’s a transition the executive team needs to make from a stage of perpetually raising capital to a stage of starting to generate capital and focus on unit economics, and understanding sound investments. [7:51] Super-mature businesses are balance-sheet-driven. These are companies like banks, oil, and gas, that have balance sheet sensitivities they need to pay attention to. [8:06] Get an executive team all on the same page with a basic background in finances and then focus that alignment in education first on whichever financial statement is the most important to the business, according to what stage your business is in. [9:27] There’s an element of leadership that’s getting people to follow you and there’s an element of knowing what the right direction to go is. The math of business is useful in helping you figure out what the right direction is. [9:45] The first step in identifying the right direction can be self-study. Sometimes it’s about understanding the terminology. Sometimes, it’s about looking at your business and thinking about what’s most important for your business. The easiest way to do that is to rely on the ability to identify a bottleneck. What’s the most immediate limitation on the business? Is it sales, product, or capital? [10:58] The first thing is to recognize the most immediate pain point in your business. Decompose it. Understand what the most important numbers are in that pain point. You don’t have to understand all the numbers in the business at once. You can learn over time. Start by figuring out what’s most important. [11:59] Jeremy explains scaling and growth. A scaling business differs from a startup in that as the business gets bigger, it juggles an increasing number of variables. Part of becoming a scaling business is looking in advance. If you want 100 new customers how much staff do you need to onboard new and maintain existing customers? Look for limitations and plan to remove them before you hit them. [14:06] Past guest Margaret Heffernan identified planning for limitations as adaptability. Jeremy notes that the amount of flexibility you have is contingent upon your availability of capital. Blitzscaling has its drawbacks. If you hire too much staff, then when the capital is drained, you will have massive layoffs and you may lay off the wrong people if you don’t know the metrics. That puts you in a death cycle. [15:44] Growth can be self-financed or it can come at the cost of additional capital. Blitzscaling is valid in winner-take-all markets. An example of this is Netflix. Their model is streaming video, so they had to grab as many customers as possible before others captured the market. They had to raise capital through growth and figure out how to make customers sticky. They enabled streaming through Xbox. [16:54] Often, blitzscaling is not the right approach, especially if you raise too much capital at too low of a valuation, which may hurt your investors. Prove profitability first and then raise capital at a higher multiple a little bit later. [18:56] Marketing analytics is used by companies like Facebook to choose what ad to show. Talroo uses analytics to identify the right job candidates for employers that are looking to hire essential workers. The analytics calculate the likelihoods that a job seeker will: apply for a job, be a good fit for the job, and be selected by the employer. With the right characteristics, you can start to reach the right people. [19:37] There’s a space for analytics in most businesses. With analytics, you will gain a level of additional insight into what your team needs, what your customers need, and what your shareholders need. Understanding where those numbers that matter to you are is where analytics starts. Jeremy gives an example of how his former employer, Kasasa, used analytics and rewards to drive consumer behavior. [22:45] Analytics work best if you know what factors drive your business. It can also help you figure out specifics of what drives your business. Jeremy cites the problems with having too many dashboards or too few dashboards and the benefits of having an appropriate number of dashboards. Analytics will tell you where to go next if you pay attention, but you have to be thoughtful about what you’re building. [26:28] When you talk about pricing, ask yourself if you are reaching the combination of the right targets that are willing and able to pay that price and if that is price sufficient for you to make money after you’ve acquired those customers. And are there enough of them to grow the business well? Jeremy shares some facts about the cost of acquiring customers, their lifetime value, and marketing cycles. [28:20] A business is considered investable or backable by private equity or venture capital if it is going to make three times as much as it cost to pick up that customer. … What sometimes VCs and PE groups don’t pay attention to is how fast that cycles. Having multiple cycles in a year multiplies the profit. [29:14] More about pricing: Sometimes getting extra traction on the sales front isn’t about charging less, sometimes you can deliver more value. Sometimes all you have to do is take risk away. Jeremy relates a Kasasa case study. When you de-risk a transaction, sales friction goes away. [33:16] As companies scale, they have to broaden their understanding of their stakeholders. What do the customers want? How do you deliver value? It is easier to work with private equity and venture capital if they’ve seen the metrics. To be a partner, they can’t operate blindly; they need transparency. If you skip wage increases, consider the customer churn that will follow as employees leave. [35:53] Jeremy shares some aspects of conversations that were held at Kasasa, post-acquisition. They were discussing how to balance their white-label segment against their branded segment. They needed to understand the concerns of customers moving from one to the other as they navigated early conversations with the private equity group. [37:00] The PE group was focused on long-term growth. They were the right partners. It’s important to have the right partners with the same objectives as the company leadership and previous owners who are investing. You want that alignment. If the idea is revenue growth at any cost, everybody better agree on that. If the alignment is to grow profitability x% year over year, everybody needs to be aligned. [39:01] Talroo sees a very high level of demand for essential workers. That’s a strong vertical for Talroo. Jeremy doesn’t foresee a full-fledged labor recession. There is softening in tech sectors in terms of need for workers, which Jeremy attributes to earlier overhiring of workers by a lot of large businesses. Most of the pressures in the labor economy are still present. There are a lot of people retiring or recently retired. [40:19] One of the biggest problems the U.S. faces over the next decade is a shortage of labor because we’ve been below our replacement rate. We don’t have enough workers. It’s important to retain your talent, or partner with Talroo to find new talent! One of the places where analytics gets overlooked a lot is in understanding who your best performers are. Which people is it most important that you retain? [41:41] It’s still going to be important to lead well the people that you have. [42:34] Jeremy has been a key part of three major restructurings in the last 13 years. It’s awful for everybody involved and it should be awful. If it’s not awful, something’s wrong with your culture. Restructuring should be a last resort. You can sometimes avoid them by staffing the right people in the right places. Sometimes you get it wrong. [43:45] Part of leading is looking at the metrics to know when to make those decisions. Part of leading is looking at people first when you’re making those decisions so that you’re making the right choices. Part of leading is knowing that your team members are vital, too. You have to do what you can to provide a soft landing for the people you have to lose. Provide as much transparency as you can upfront. [46:34] Jeremy’s last message for listeners: “People look at numbers and people as exclusive and they’re not. They should both provide you with insight into the other. So, when you talk about the hard side of leadership and the soft side of leadership, they’re both sides. There’s a lot to be said for figuring out how to use them to work together, to make you stronger on both sides of that equation.” [47:26] Closing quote: Remember, “Academic qualifications are important and so is financial education. They’re both important and schools are forgetting one of them.” — Robert Kiyosaki   Quotable Quotes “When you think about what drives the value of a business, … it boils down to three things: What’s the lifetime value of your customers? What’s your customer acquisition cost? … and … What’s the total addressable market? … [Pay attention to] those three numbers.”  “You want to figure out how you can build a business that’s going to continue to grow without perpetual capital-raising and the perpetual dilution that comes along with it. Sometimes it can take some time for the executive team to make that transition.”  “If you raise too much capital at too low of a valuation, you might have hurt your investors. You might have to get really big to get the same return for your investors that you would have if you’d proven profitability and then raised at a much higher multiple a little bit later.”  “When you talk about pricing, … are you reaching … the right targets that are willing and able to pay that price, and is that price sufficient for you to make money after you’ve acquired those customers? … Are there enough of them to grow the business well?”  “A business is considered investable or backable by private equity or venture capital if you’re going to make three times as much as it cost you to pick up that customer off of that business. … What sometimes VCs and PE groups don’t pay attention to is how fast that cycles.”  “It is way easier to work with private equity and venture capital if they’ve seen the metrics. … For the most part, venture capitalists and private equity managers are there to make money for their investors but they want to do it in partnership.” “One of the biggest problems that the U.S. faces over the next decade is a shortage of labor because we’ve been below our replacement rate. We don’t have enough workers. … It’s really important to retain your talent.”  “You do have to balance the needs of the company against the needs of the employee. But if you can do that, then a lot of times, just operating with compassion, and some transparency and some honesty, can go a long way.”    Resources Mentioned Sponsored by:  

Mike Evans is the Founder of GrubHub, and the author of “Hangry: A Startup Journey.” Mike founded GrubHub in his spare bedroom and grew it into a multi-billion dollar food delivery business that’s a household name. After leaving GrubHub, he founded Fixer.com, an on-demand handyperson service focused on social impact, and providing full-time work for well-trained tradespeople. Mike shares what he learned from raising a startup to IPO, biking across America, and writing “Hangry.” He believes it is necessary to create a business not just to make a profit, but to be powerful levers for social change.     Key Takeaways [2:27] Mike loves cycling and getting around places by bike, but not quickly. After the GrubHub experience, he rode his bike across the country. Later, Mike and his wife rode across Austria. They hope to ride across another country soon with their daughter. Mike tells what he likes about electric bikes. [4:41] As GrubHub grew from a few employees to 2,500 employees over 12 years, there were two things that increased his anxiety and made it challenging to live. [5:14] The first challenge was the fact that there are a lot of competing interests: shareholders, employees, diners, and restaurants and it was hard to balance them all. There’s no scenario where everybody wins 100%. There are tradeoffs. It was a tightrope walk to do. Mike started seeing the company making different choices as it grew beyond him. That was challenging to see. [6:09] The second challenge was hiring. As a business leader, you either hire your friends, or the people you hire become your friends. Sometimes you have to make decisions that are not the best outcomes for your employee-friends. When you have to let people go that you like, you cannot recover those friendships. They’re gone. You can’t fire somebody and then go hang out with them. [6:37] It should be hard to fire someone. You can’t be good at firing people and be a good leader. It should never get easier. You should care a lot about the people you work with. The competing interests, and having to fire friends took a toll on Mike over the course of a decade. [7:53] Contentment is fleeting, especially for entrepreneurs who start from a place where “something is broken in the world and I’m really annoyed by it.” Mike doesn’t think contentment was ever in the cards for him. An entrepreneur has to see the world with an expectation that it could be better than it currently is, which is not a good recipe for contentment. [9:45] Mike believes it’s important to have a personal definition of success that other people or factors don’t define. Other people won’t necessarily agree with it. Mike tells how he defined success all the way up through GrubHub’s IPO. Other people told him the IPO was his success, but that wasn’t Mike’s definition. Your definition of success gives you a North Star for one aspect of your life, business. [11:11] You also need personal definitions of success for your relationships, family, faith community, and civic community. Then you need to do the hard step of making tradeoffs between them. Work/life balance is elusive because it’s impossible to achieve. You have to make tradeoffs. The best you can do is say “I have a clear-eyed picture of what I want from a family perspective,” and make choices explicitly. [12:03] If you don’t choose explicitly, things happen to you instead of you making choices. That’s what causes imbalance, frustration, anger, and disappointment. Your definitions of success change during your journey. As you approach your goals, the goalposts move. It’s a destination and a journey. It’s not one or the other. As we do hard things, we change, and therefore our goals change. [12:54] Sometimes we fail. If you’re not going to be able to accomplish a goal, continuing to have it as a goal is only an exercise in frustration. Be able to say “This isn’t working; I’m going to go try doing something else.” Whether you succeed or fail, your goals change. Success is a larger concept; it’s the accumulation of goals over decades. [13:54] Mike compares how he feels about goals today with what he might have felt at age 24. One of the themes in his book is Think Bigger. Don’t set your goals low. When Mike launched GrubHub, he just wanted to pay off his student debt. He missed the opportunity to embed the value of “Do right by restaurants, no matter what,” in the DNA of the company. At 24, he only wanted to make money. [14:37] If Mike had struggled at age 24 with the decision about doing right by the restaurants, there might have been a better outcome over the decades. [16:17] Starting GrubHub and taking it through the IPO involved thousands of decisions of Mike letting go. On Day 1, Mike owned 100% of GrubHub with 100% of the responsibility for it. On the day Mike kicked off on his bike ride across the country, he had 0% of the responsibility. He had a few shares in GrubHub for six more months. His hack was to give up first the thing he hated most — scanning menus! [18:14] Mike’s first hire, a graphic designer to scan menus, went on to create the brand which ended up in two Super Bowl ads. He started scanning menus but had an opportunity from being in a high-growth startup. He ended up having to delegate. Once you hire your first employee, you get your first investor. Lean in on that and enjoy it! [19:31] Accepting reality is a paradox for an entrepreneur. You have to have enough arrogance to say “The world is broken, it needs to be fixed, and I’m the only person who can do it,” and you have to have the humility to listen to your customers and employees about what you’re doing right and wrong, and how to adjust. Arrogance and humility do not “play nice” together. Mike doesn’t always get it right. [20:28] If you put a document in front of five people, they’re all going to start editing it. Don’t put a press release in front of anybody but the people who have the responsibility of doing the press release. One way to keep micromanagement from happening, to allow people to delegate, is don’t put the work product in front of them before it’s done. Don’t give people editing access. [20:54] Not micromanaging starts with not being in there to edit things. Trust people to do their work. Tactical things like that help you to let go of the small decisions. [21:33] Mike’s book has a humble tone, but the exclamation point at the end is, “I had a fricking IPO, folks!” Mike captures in the book the paradox of arrogance and humility needed to run a startup well. [23:18] Mike had done week-long backpacking trips and liked being out in nature. On one of those trips with his wife, he went to Grand Tetons National Park and camped. He saw people riding in on bikes and setting up tents. It was the TransAmerican Trail cross-country bike tour going through the park. Mike thought biking and carrying a pack on a rack was a way better idea than hiking with a backpack! [24:14] The bike tour sounded like a very accessible adventure. It was accessible because he did it in 90 fifty-mile bike rides, not one 4,500-mile bike ride. His first day was just 25 miles. One thing Mike learned is that it starts with the first mile. The best training for Week Two is Week One. The best training for Week One is to go slow. Don’t try to eat up the miles in your first week. [24:54] Anyone physically able can ride 10 miles on a bike. You can do that and you can take lunch and you can do that again. And that can be your whole first day. You build up until you’re riding 100 miles in a day. The decision for Mike was just following something he was interested in doing. He quit his job to ride his bike across the country. It was a very clear decision for his life. [26:18] Mike kept a journal of his bike ride, on MikeEvans.com. He used those notes in Hangry to write about his bike trip. The trip reinforced something for Mike: the idea that you don’t do it all at once. When he looks back, yes he did a 4,500-mile bike ride. Day to day, he woke up every morning and made the decision to start pedaling a mile. [26:51] Long-haul hikers say, “Don’t quit at the end of a long day. Wait till the morning, when you’re fresh.” A lot of people feel like quitting when they’re tired. When you wake up in the morning you see you can do another day. That was true for Mike in business, as well. He kept at it because he had a bigger mission he was trying to accomplish. [28:14] Mike’s purposes for his bike trip were to reflect on what he had accomplished, how he did it, and how he felt about it, and to consider what he was going to do next. That led to the creation of Fixer, the on-demand handyperson business. The handypersons are full-time employees, trained from scratch. He wanted to create a business with social benefits built-in: great employment with a path into the trades. [29:11] Mike’s first decision for the bike trip was to buy a recumbent bike because he wanted to look at the horizon instead of the ground. He already had a tent. He rented a van and drove it down to Virginia Beach. One thing that helped is that the Adventure Cycling Association publishes TransAmerica Trail bike route maps so he ordered a set of maps and joined their online community to talk about the ride. [31:51] Starting a business is ugly and hard. It’s filled with self-doubt and recriminations. To succeed, you have to make tough choices and a lot of people judge you for those choices. Mike also judges GrubHub and where it went after he left from the IPO and how it became a poster child for the gig economy and not great for restaurants. That is frustrating to Mike. [32:21] It felt to Mike that it was important to tell the whole story and how businesses are huge levers for social change, whether you want them to be or not. When Mike was intentional about that at GrubHub, it was beneficial for restaurants. When that intentionality left the business, it was not as good for restaurants. [32:40] Mike’s goal with Hangry is to show the idea of changing the world by creating a business. He wanted to make it accessible and he wanted to elevate the importance of being intentional about creating the change you want to see in the world through the business. It’s not a thing you can do after the business is done, through charity work. You have to create the business as a lever for social change. [33:21] Hangry is mostly about trying to take what Mike learned and letting other people learn from it and live their lives, whether as an entrepreneur, a business leader, or an executive in a company and do their work in such a way that the communities in which they operate benefit from what they’re doing. [34:11] The book is called Hangry, so Mike isn’t happy and pleasant the whole time. He’s snarky about exclusionism. Silicon Valley is great at drawing circles and saying “You can’t come in.” Cyclists do it, too! There are lots of groups that draw a circle and say, “You’re not allowed inside this circle.” Mike says that Silicon Valley is particularly good at excluding anybody who’s not a white male. There’s a better way. [34:52] Democratizing the startup culture, democratizing the process, and demystifying the hero narrative that people use sometimes, make it more accessible to people. There’s an urgency to making our world a better place for our children and grandchildren that sort of raises the bar for what success looks like at a business. It can’t just be making money anymore. [36:27] The catalyst for creating Fixer.com was trying to get a handyperson and having to use “the phone app” on his phone. He wondered who uses that anymore! He started looking into it. The work that tradespeople do in the economy right now is typically great. Scheduling, communication, and billing are not done well. They’re inaccessible. [37:23] It’s hard for people to enter the trades unless they have an uncle or father who shows them how to do things. It continues the bias against women entering the trades. Entry-level handyperson jobs are good-paying jobs. They’re also stepping stones to becoming an electrician, a plumber, a roofer, or a mason. It was the same problem he saw with food. You can’t order things online and it’s annoying. [37:54] He wanted to make handypersons more accessible, but he found there just aren’t enough tradespeople. So he figured that by training people from scratch, they would get quality and wrap it in modern packaging. You schedule online and ask for someone to be there at 11:00 a.m. and the handyperson shows up by 11:00 a.m. They’re highly trained, and they clean up after the job. [38:45] Mike uses the service himself, even though he’s pretty handy. [40:00] Fixer.com has hundreds of applicants for every job position that they open. They target people who are working in food service, grocery, and retail and invite them to have a career instead of a job. Fixer.com pays people while training them. It’s easy to get people on board. People in the service field don’t have the flexibility to set their hours and schedule, which is hard in this job climate. [40:48] The adoption of working from home as a norm is damaging to people who don’t have that flexibility and it creates a two-class society. Seventy-five percent of the people at Fixer.com are tradespeople, not office workers. At some point, they will have 10,000 tradespeople as full-time employees. Mike is concerned about issues of equity and expectations around time. [42:34] Mike explains why he picked a business model that’s hard and hard to copy. It is intentional and it makes his company the competition that everyone else worries about. He’s building a multi-billion dollar business that will be hard to compete with. [43:51] Mike’s listener challenge: “I would love it if everybody would buy the book. … If you want the summary line, it’s this idea that businesses affect the communities in which they work, and being intentional about what that impact is, is really, really important.” You’re going to be juggling competing priorities, but it’s still useful even if you're considering a socially beneficial impact for every decision. [45:19] Closing quote: Remember, “Make no little plans; they have no magic to stir men’s blood and probably themselves will not be realized. Make big plans; aim high in hope and work.” — Daniel Burnham   Quotable Quotes “I’m not like one of these fast people who are always racing along the Lake Path in Chicago. Seeing the country; getting places at 10 mph is great. … After the GrubHub experience, I rode my bike across the country.” — Mike “Electric bikes are great. They really create access for people who might not otherwise physically be able to do it. And so I think they sort of democratize our bike trails. I’m a big fan of electric bikes.” — Mike “It should be hard to fire people, anyway. … You can’t be good at firing people and be a good leader. I think those two things are totally mutually exclusive. It should always be hard. It should never get easier. You should care a lot about the people you work with.” — Mike “The difference between an entrepreneur and a miserable grump is that the entrepreneur actually does something about it. So, I’m not sure it was ever in the cards for me to be content.” — Mike “[An entrepreneur] has to see the world with an expectation that it could be better than it currently is, which is not a good recipe for contentment.” — Mike “I think it’s really important to have an internal, personal definition of success that’s not defined by some external factor.” — Mike “Sometimes we fail. If you’re not going to be able to accomplish a goal, continuing to have it as a goal is only an exercise in frustration and self-punishment. So being able to say, ‘This isn’t working, I’m going to go try something else,’ is also important.” — Mike “People often ask me ‘What’s the most strategic hire that you can do first?’ … Forget that! Hire somebody to do something that’s the most annoying thing to you. And then you start to get the benefit of ‘I don’t have to do every little thing.’” — Mike “Don’t put a press release in front of anybody but the people who have the responsibility of doing the press release. One way to keep micromanagement from happening, to allow people to delegate, is don’t put the work product in front of them before it’s done.” — Mike “The tone of the book is humble. I tried to be self-reflective in the book, but the exclamation point at the end is, ‘I had a fricking IPO, folks!’ which is not a humble thing. I’m kind of bragging.” — Mike “Anyone physically able can ride 10 miles on a bike. You can do that and then you take lunch and you can do that again. And that can be your whole first day. And then by the time you hit the Rockies, a 100-mile day is like, ‘Oh, yeah, I’ve been doing this for weeks!’” — Mike “There’s an urgency to making our world a better place for our children and grandchildren that sort of raises the bar for what success looks like at a business. It’s not just making money anymore. It can’t just be that.” — Mike “Picking hard business models, that are necessarily hard, to create value for customers is a really good defense against competition. What we’re doing is hard and so it’s hard to copy. And that’s very intentional.” — Mike “The thing that really sucks about competition is it’s not in your control. But … you can choose to pick a business model where you have to have some grit and some hard work and some thoughtfulness and some talent to make it work. … And then you are the competition.” — Mike “Businesses affect the communities in which they work, and being intentional about what that impact is, is really, really important. … it’s still useful even if you can’t make every decision toward a socially beneficial impact if you’re considering it for every decision.” — Mike   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by:  

Mano Watsa is the President and Owner of PGC Basketball, the largest educational basketball camp in the world. PGC Basketball has taught over 125,000 players and coaches how to be leaders on and off the court. Mano brings his sports and business experiences to the podcast with stories and advice on thinking like a coach, communicating, and making a difference in people’s lives. Listen to learn how to focus on the thing you can do best.    “Part of the beauty of the game is your individual contributions combined with working together as a team … where five players become like a fist, not five individual fingers … and they play together as one.”  - Mano Watsa     Key Takeaways [2:51] Mano’s journey has been a joy, but anytime you’re pursuing a vision, there are all sorts of challenges along the way, as well as opportunities. It’s often the challenges that don’t surface publicly. Mano has never seen a successful team or individual that has not had to overcome adversity, and he is no different. [4:20] PGC Basketball's founder, Dick DeVenzio, who played college basketball at Duke University and went on to play and teach the game across the world, created the Point Guard College with the point guard in mind. The point guard has to be the coach on the floor. They have to be able to run the show for their team and get their team to work together and play together. They have to “think the game.” [5:01] PGC teaches players to be the smartest player on the floor by equipping them with how to think like a coach, how to make good decisions that lead to winning basketball, and how to lead their team. Jan and Jim recall guest Sam Walker’s book, The Captain Class, on how the greatest sports teams in history have one thing in common, captains who were the coach on the floor. [6:13] Mano says PGC teaches players not only how to lead by example but to be effective communicators, inspire their teammates, hold teammates accountable, challenge them, and raise the standard for their teammates. Anyone leading a company, team, or family, is the point guard for that company, team, or family. [8:23] Jeremy Lin came to the NY Knicks and started the Linsanity era. Overnight Jeremy Lin was on the cover of nearly every magazine and was a household name as the first Asian-American in the NBA. Suddenly he’s scoring 38 points against Kobe Bryant at Madison Square Garden. He had a successful 10-year NBA career. [9:08] Toward the end of Jeremy Lin’s NBA career, Mano had the privilege and opportunity to support him in the realm of mindset and his approach. Mano has been inspired by Jeremy Lin’s story, his passion, and his commitment to the game, giving back to the game and making a difference in the world. Jeremy Lin is now playing professionally in China. [10:18] John Wooden won 10 national championships at UCLA and was named Coach of the Century. John Wooden epitomized what it means to be a coach and make a difference in the lives of young players. Mano and his business partner at the time, Dena Evans, had the privilege once of spending a remarkable morning with Coach Wooden. They immediately wrote down all they had learned from him. [12:30] Jason Sudeikis revealed that having John Wooden’s Pyramid of Success on the wall of Ted Lasso’s office is purposeful. [13:30] Five players that work together can be more effective than five talented individuals who don’t work together. Individual performers can significantly influence the outcome of the game, but they also depend on the performance of their teammates to determine the outcome of the game. It’s a beautiful thing to see players willing to pass up a good shot for themselves for a great shot for a teammate. [15:38] Michael Jordan was the best player in the world. His teammates said they found it difficult to play with him because his standards were so high. He had competitive greatness. He was at his best when it was needed the most. It’s helpful on a team to have a player that drives everyone toward winning. You need others who complement that person’s nature to make sure everyone gets along. [19:30] Mano helped the Mully Children’s Family organization in Kenya build a sports gymnasium. There are over 2,000 children under their care. Mano has been over there with them multiple times and loves their work. When he sees where these kids have come from and their optimism, even with what they lack, it gives Mano a perspective of gratitude and wanting to make a difference in the lives of others. [21:05] Denny Crum, former coach of the University of Louisville, was honored recently. One of his players stated that they never saw him get upset. He never yelled at his players. They called him Cool Hand Luke. He was always encouraging and supportive. He was a teacher to his team. [22:01] PGC founder Dick DeVenzio taught to use a six-to-one ratio of encouragement to constructive criticism. It’s a lofty standard. As a coach or leader, it’s so easy to see where others may be falling short but people thrive off encouragement. Connect with team members before correcting them. Always make deposits before you make withdrawals. As leaders and parents, think about the “bank account.” [24:15] Great coaches don’t try to make everything a priority. If you try to make everything a priority, nothing is a priority. You can’t be great at everything, on the court or in business. But you can be great and world-class in something. You have to let some things go and focus on others. [25:02] Great coaches don’t single players out unnecessarily. This goes for leaders and parents, too. Praise publicly and criticize privately. Good coaches and business leaders do a good job of not embarrassing and humiliating their people. They praise publicly and if they have to give criticism, they do so quietly and privately. [25:43] Great coaches don’t hold back when they’re wrong. They’re willing to admit mistakes. That takes humility and vulnerability, in practice and games. Get beyond your ego. Be willing to admit you don’t have it all together. [26:56] At PGC, they follow a commitment-based culture. Part of Mano’s commitment statement is that he’s a joyful work in progress. Accepting himself as a joyful work in progress allows Mano to admit mistakes and admit that he will always be a work in progress. [27:38] Past guest, Michael Bungay Stanier, told of a Legos bridge-building problem. Most people added pieces to solve the problem but the most expedient solution was to remove a piece. What’s on your plate? What are you going to take off your plate? Mano notes that when we say “yes” to something, we say “no” to every other alternative. That helps him to be discerning about what he says “Yes” to. [29:18] Mano decided recently that if it’s not a “Hell, yeah!” it’s a “No.” One of the mistakes Mano made in the early years of growing PGC was wanting to pursue every opportunity. In attempting to pursue every opportunity, they didn’t maximize any given opportunity. Mano learned as he grew as a leader to stop good things to focus on a great thing. [31:54] As coaches or business leaders, you can’t give all the encouragement that your players or staff need. To fill the gap, PGC introduced celebrations. Every staff meeting, no matter how many meetings are in a day, starts with 60 to 90 seconds of gratitude. It’s an opportunity for somebody to acknowledge a thing or project that the team or an individual has done well. People encourage each other. [34:50] Mano frequently tells his staff, “If you’re winning at work but losing at home, you’re losing.” Mano and PGC care about the staff as human beings and want them to win at home. If someone is not winning at home, their work will be compromised because everything bleeds over. When you’re at home, shut off work, slow down, and be present with family. [36:04] After reading In Praise of Slowness, Mano stopped college coaching to focus on PGC. He wanted to be present for his family. Another decision he made with his family was to limit the participation of their children in sports and activities. Their highest value was in spending dinner time together as a family and playing together. They prioritized family time over competitive sports. [39:02] Mano’s listener challenge: As business leaders, we must ensure that we’re doing everything possible to support our employees and teams. One of the ways we can do that is by helping to ensure that they’re able to bring their best possible selves to work each day. [39:24] For employees to bring the best version of themselves, they need to feel cared for, supported, and encouraged, and they need to be given space because if we’re just driving them hard all the time, we’re going to wear them down, especially in this world where many people just don’t feel settled. We can create a good environment while pursuing goals and lofty objectives and still helping our people. [41:21] Closing quote: Remember, “Do not let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do.” — John Wooden   Quotable Quotes “I’ve never come across a winning team, or anyone who’s been highly successful in anything,  that hasn’t had to overcome significant adversity. And I’m certainly no different than that, in terms of adversities.” — Mano “We like to think that a point guard isn’t just a position on a basketball court. Somebody leading a company is the point guard of their team. A quarterback is the point guard of their football team. … If you’re leading a family, you are the point guard of your family.” — Mano “The point guard has to be able to influence behavior in order to get desired outcomes. They have to be able to lead and communicate effectively.” — Mano “The beauty of the game [of basketball] is that five players who work together can be more effective and more successful than five talented individuals who don’t work together.” — Mano “In basketball, it’s a small enough team that you can significantly impact the outcome of the game by your individual performance but you can’t entirely impact the outcome because you have to be dependent on your teammates.” — Mano “Part of the beauty of the game is your individual contributions combined with working together as a team … where five players become like a fist, not five individual fingers … and they play together as one.” — Mano “There are so many life lessons that come out of the game when players are willing to put aside their individual agendas for the betterment of the team.” — Mano “You need a range of diverse personalities to really make a team as effective as it can be. But to have somebody that drives winning and drives outcomes is really, really valuable.” — Mano “People thrive off encouragement. No one has ever received too much appreciation or too much encouragement. And one of the principles that we teach to coaches … is connect before you correct.” — Mano “Every good leader … looks for opportunities to celebrate, to acknowledge, to praise, to encourage, and appreciate far more often than they do providing any constructive criticism.” — Mano “It actually builds trust when we’re willing to be vulnerable when we’re willing to demonstrate that level of humility. It’s hard because it requires getting beyond ourselves and it requires getting beyond our ego.” — Mano “One of the things I’ve realized, both in business and in my personal life: I just don’t have it all together.” — Mano “When we say ‘yes’ to something, we’re actually saying ‘no’ to every other possible alternative.” — Mano “If it’s not a ‘Hell, yeah!’ it’s a ‘no.’” — Mano “What gets scheduled gets done.” — Mano   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by:  

Leigh Ann Rodgers is the CEO and Founder of Better Teams, and is driven to positively impact corporate culture and cultivate happy, high-performing teams. She is also the host of Leading Better Teams podcast. In this episode, Leigh Ann shares thoughts on accountability, bonding/connection, and why virtual teams require extra work to build connections. Listen in for how to build strong virtual connections!     Key Takeaways [1:58] Leigh Ann volunteers three days a week at a local animal sanctuary for farm animals. There are pigs, horses, donkeys, goats, and cats. It’s a beautiful little farm tucked into a forest. Leigh Ann feeds them and puts the hay out. It’s a peaceful place. Leigh Ann does the afternoon shift. The early morning shift scoops the poop, so Leigh Ann is happy to go in the afternoon. [4:06] If members of a team are not being accountable to each other, the first thing to find out is why they are not. Leigh Ann says most of the time there is fear. It’s a risky thing to hold a peer accountable. It may lead to them not liking you, retaliation, or conflict. [4:57] How do we create a culture and create trust where people want to hold each other accountable and want to be held accountable? It would be a culture where team members don’t see accountability as a threat but as a way of teaming together to help everyone be the best that they can be. [6:04] One person can influence a team to a degree, depending on their status within the team. [7:17] The leader establishes the culture. The leader can tell the team that it is expected for them to have difficult conversations with each other instead of coming to the leader. It starts with the leader setting the tone and the expectation for open, candid conversation, with good intention, to help each other be their best. That requires real feedback. The leader also needs to reward that behavior. [9:55] If team members are unwilling to hold each other accountable, Leigh Ann loves the ADKAR model for changing behavior. Leigh Ann focuses on the first three aspects: Is the person Aware of their behavior? Do they Desire to change? Do they Know how to change? That’s where Leigh Ann starts to figure out why a person is not willing to engage in difficult conversations. [11:50] One of the principles in Leigh Ann’s Better Teams training is Readiness. The first element of Readiness is having the right equipment, tools, and resources. If you don’t have those, advocate for yourself. The second element is competence and skill sets. Advocate for the competencies you need. It may involve getting a mentor. The third element is being adaptive, flexible, and agile. Can you pivot? [12:59] Leigh Ann relates being adaptive to stress levels. People are fairly adaptive but when stress levels get high, we begin to get less adaptive and flexible. When there’s a lot of uncertainty, we start to crave certainty, which makes any new change feel bigger than it even may be. Recognize when your stress levels are high and advocate for ways to increase certainty so you can be flexible. [14:18] Instead of advocating for the organization to provide something for you, it is better for you to provide the tools, training, skills, and more to better yourself for the job you have or future roles. Advocating for yourself may become a barrier to doing something for yourself that is well within your capability. [15:09] Leigh Ann clarifies the difference between you managing your self-improvement and advocating for yourself to have the company provide an important solution that will benefit the company while benefiting you. What you can do without guidance or leadership, do independently. [16:38] Jan notes that past guest Kim Cameron, spoke a lot about abundance versus scarcity. As we come out of a pandemic, we hear more from our guests about abundance than scarcity. Maybe people are more open-minded than they were. Jan invites you, the listener, to connect on social media about trends you are seeing. And Jan is proposing a prize if somebody listens to all past episodes of the show! [18:11] Jan cites an HBR 1998 article on trust in the virtual team. Trust in virtual teams has been a topic for a while. [18:34] Leigh Ann says some teams are getting human connection right, and some are not doing as well. People need to feel bonded to the people they are working with. Many people miss being in the office with other people. It takes so much more effort to build a meaningful connection on a group call. When you disconnect from the call, you disconnect from the people. [19:56] Before the podcast started recording, Jan, Jim, and Leigh Ann were connected, talking about themselves. They were connecting and building rapport before starting the podcast. When meeting virtually, ask about each other. [21:30] Some individuals and teams want deeper connections and some do not. It has to be managed case by case. Leigh Ann is reading about oxytocin in the book Habits of a Happy Brain. Oxytocin makes us feel connected and bonded. It is released when you come together and start to feel that you know who people are a little bit more and you feel safe with each other. [22:43] When teams get together and do some sort of meaningful team exercise where they’re really getting to know each other in a safe way and as they want to, it creates that sense of bonding that may not be there if you’re just coming together running down a spreadsheet. We need to create spaces for teams to actually share what they want to about themselves and create that sense of connection. [23:13] Leigh Ann suggests building, even virtually, times for teams to come together with a little structure for teams to share and learn about each other. A simple example is to ask team members to bring with them an object that symbolizes something that they value highly. [23:50] Leigh Ann remembers someone bringing in a medal from running in a triathlon, and how running was part of her health journey. Another person brought in something that symbolized a medical challenge they had and a conversation that helped people on the team understand the person better. The team suddenly saw each other in a new dimension which made them more human to each other. [24:51] Another exercise is a DiSC® communication workshop. What are the different ways in which we like to communicate? Are you direct? Do you like to ask questions? [25:19] Doing some really meaningful team exercises like this allows people to get to know each other. Not necessarily sharing all their deep, dark family secrets, but it’s a way to learn about each other and what makes people tick, and create that sense of bonding and closeness we don’t get from typical business meetings. [26:18] You can get people together for celebrations. We tend to celebrate success and meeting goals. We celebrate outcomes. Dr. Carol Dweck focuses on growth mindset. How do we celebrate the effort, even if we fall short of the goal? We should celebrate growth, effort, and learning in addition to outcomes. It’s also important to celebrate individual contributions and specialties each person brings. [29:04] On the farm where Leigh Ann volunteers, each of the 25 volunteers brings something unique. One volunteer loves to paint. She painted sayings all over the farm and created the farm calendar. One volunteer is meticulous with order and structure. It’s important to celebrate the unique contributions of each person on your team. That makes them feel special and increases their serotonin, by the way. [30:32] Leigh Ann tells how she beat the doldrums. Although she loves what she does, she noticed last year she was getting “the blahs.” She had to do some soul-searching to figure it out. She had stopped learning and growing and needed some new things to play into her strengths. She did a lot of learning and coaching with people, reading, and writing that helped her energize again. She got curious! [32:40] Jan and Jim noticed that at the beginning of the pandemic, leaders were energized by the crisis. After 18 months, the same leaders were fired. They couldn’t react anymore, they had to step back and think. They had to be proactive. We’re still in that stage, where people are planning and budgeting and projecting what will happen. Jan directs people to what they value. [33:33] Leigh Ann often asks people to ask themselves “What do you want?” and “What do you need?” That’s the beginning to find out how you get to that. [34:23] Leigh Ann’s listener challenge: Put pen to paper, think about, and first ask yourself, what do you want and what do you need? If you’re not sure, grab a coach to help you think that through. Do some self-reflection and figure it out. Second, ask how you get out of your way. Third, ask how you prioritize and plan to get there. Leigh Ann has sessions starting in January that can help you through this. [36:13] Closing quote: Remember, “Individual commitment to a group effort — that is what makes a team work, a company work, a society work, a civilization work.” — Vince Lombardi   Quotable Quotes “How do we create a culture and create trust where people want to hold each other accountable and want to be held accountable? And they don’t see it as a threat. They see it as a way of teaming together to help everyone be the best that they can be.” — Leigh Ann “In general, people are fairly adaptive but when stress levels get really high, we begin to get less adaptive and flexible. When there’s a lot of uncertainty, we start to crave certainty, which makes any new change feel bigger than it even may be.” — Leigh Ann “We’ve got to figure out ways to create spaces for teams to actually share what they want to about themselves and create that sense of connection and bonding and I think we’ve got to build that in, even more than just, ‘How are you doing?’” — Leigh Ann “Doing some really meaningful team exercises … allows people to get to know each other. And not necessarily for sharing all their deep, dark family secrets, but it’s a way to learn about each other and what makes people tick, and create that sense of bonding.” — Leigh Ann “Take time to put pen to paper and think about what you want and what you need. … And if you’re really not sure, grab a coach. A coach can help you think that through, as well, but do some self-reflection and figure that out.” — Leigh Ann   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by:

Jason Field is an Executive Coach, Outdoor Professional, Expedition Leader, and Past President and CEO of W.L. Gore & Associates. He’s a board member, an entrepreneur, and a veterinarian. His focus is to develop great leaders to be force multipliers for their teams. The discussion covers a team’s responsibility, decision-making, the principles of problem-solving, and the role of process to obtain and maintain focus on the customer. The discussion also includes insights from Jason on his role as a guide for hikes into the Grand Canyon. Jason encourages you to work hard, follow your interests, and chase experiences.     Key Takeaways [2:43] Jason has been married for 16 years. His son just turned 14 and is starting to surpass Jason in capability in just about everything they do together.   [5:05] Adaptability and creative thinking are desirable attributes in many organizations but may be in tension with process and structure. Adaptability and creative thinking are behavioral expressions of a culture. These traits are not desirable in every case, such as when making suture needles, for example, that need a lot of process rigor to come out exactly the same way every time. [5:56] If adaptability and creative thinking are desired outputs, you need leadership levers like the Galbraith Star Model™. You design adaptability and creative thinking into the organization. You look at strategy, structure, processes, rewards, and people to get the behaviors of adaptability and creative thinking as outputs. [6:22] Adaptability and creative thinking go with belief systems and values. You start with the people you bring into the organization. If you bring people in who are highly rule-oriented, it’s going to be hard to pull adaptability and creative thinking out. [7:30] The Gore company emphasized the power of small teams with the most knowledgeable associate taking responsibility for decision-making. Decision rights don’t come from being a leader. A leader in a small team has the responsibility of facilitating a decision-making process and pointing to the most knowledgeable associates. This all requires the team to have organizational strategic clarity. [8:22] You complement small teams with process. If the idea is to be adaptable and draw upon the creative thinkers on the team, you need processes that will move relevant information to the teams in a timely manner so they can act according to the best information. [8:39] Processes should do two things: enable and expedite decision-making and mitigate risks. In the case of teams, it’s mainly about expediting decision-making. [8:51] Rewards make sure you are celebrating business wins when you see teams operating in that adaptable mindset and drawing upon their creativity. [9:20] The Pairin Survey identifies people with high objective and analytical scores versus people with high intuitive and conceptual scores. Most teams are strong in objective and analytical scores for solving problems. Intuitive and conceptual scores relate to being good at understanding the root causes and seeing trends and patterns.   [10:14] Having the right leader at the right time means being able to draw upon both individuals with strong analytical skills and individuals with strong intuitive skills, that can draw out insights from others, depending on the problem or opportunity that’s being presented. [10:58] Jim points out how Jason had clarified an assumption in the first topic of adaptability and creative thinking: Are they desirable in every scenario? Then Jason talked about when they are not helpful and when you need them. How do we encourage people to ask the right questions and clarify their assumptions? [11:53] Jason tells how active listening works for him. He suggests that it’s a powerful thing for leaders to step back and ask themselves what an individual is trying to get across to them and ask the right questions and get the right assumptions on the table as they engage in problem-solving. [13:07] When Jason has an employee engagement, he is trying to inspire them while deriving information for himself. It’s a two-way street. For engaging people, first, demonstrate an interest in what that individual or team is doing. Draw people to the higher purpose of the strategy of the organization. Demonstrate that you care about them. [14:20] Jason and Jim role-play a conversation. Jim is an engineer working on a product development team and Jason is an executive who pops into the office and asks what Jim’s working on. As they talk, Jason shows interest, asks follow-up questions, points to organizational strategy and tying to the customer, uses active listening, adds personal encouragement, and offers help for resources. [17:28] Deconstructing the role-play, the leader makes sure the person knows the leader is listening by repeating and validating what the person says, taps into the personal impact of how the person feels, and how the leader can help. These things are attributes of an energizing discussion. The leader asks how the person knows they are being successful, looking at their place in the organization. [19:20] The best way to inculcate the core values into the organization is to demonstrate them. You’ve got to walk the talk. Jason says that it’s a competitive advantage to being a purpose-driven organization that’s incorporated its values into the fabric of its operation. Jason leans pretty hard on that type of work. This assumes you’ve done the hard work to identify values that are true to the organization. [20:37] When you have your organizational values, incorporate them into your mission, vision, and strategy. Those are the pillars upon which your organization’s direction is built. Then draw on those components and demonstrate the values in your products, services, and decision-making frameworks in the organization. At the end of the day, those values characterize your brand. [21:59] Integrity is one value Jason sees a lot. Integrity may be subject to interpretation. Integrity has a dependence upon the values that sit behind it. Make sure you know how your key stakeholders are interpreting integrity. Military veterans often say integrity is choosing the hard right vs. the easy wrong. [23:55] When the board and leadership align with the core values and demonstrate them, that brings alignment around the value of integrity. Brand strategist Tom Storey told Jason that value is “A promise made and kept by the entire organization and experienced by our customers.” [24:39] Keep those values front and center in your decisions so you create experiences that reinforce them. Celebrate the individuals, teams, and products that demonstrate the values you hold dear. That’s how you start to embed those values into organizations. [26:25] Jason shared his thoughts about personal responsibility. Can it be taught? There is a “nurture” component in surrounding people with others that demonstrate accountability and commitment to an outcome. The peer environment might be the strongest driver of personal accountability. The Special Forces environment creates a very high expectation of dependency on one another. [27:30] Leaders can draw out that discretionary effort in a way that’s rewarding to the individual. Use a rewards system that addresses various levels in Maslow’s hierarchy of needs. The financial component can elevate people to a limited degree to rise to challenges. The personal recognition of catching people doing things right is energizing. Help people understand their place on the team and in the organization. [28:43] Be purpose-oriented. Show how products and services contribute to a greater good and make a difference in the world. Jason’s favorite rewards system is giving people the freedom to operate individually, drawing on their strengths to make a difference in the organization. [30:23] There are individual incentives and team incentives that can be used to encourage performance. Jason leans toward understanding what you are trying to create and whether you are relying heavily on team-based outcomes or you need individuals to get into the lab and grind away toward solutions and outcomes. Jason’s bias is to revert to the power of teams. But Bob Gore invented Gore-Tex individually. [31:07] You can’t look past individual accomplishments and assume the team will come together and deliver a better outcome because it’s a team. There are different environments and different problems that call for different solutions. To the extent you can see that, as a leader, is how you should build your incentive structure [32:08] What derails leaders? Jason says it’s losing sight of the market and getting disconnected from sales. It’s easy to become internally focused and pull internal levers to optimize an organization, moving away from the market and the customer. You might drive value creation in the near term but miss market signals for long-term opportunities. Optimize for the near term and Invest for the long term. [34:08] One of the most important lessons Jason learned, mid-career, as he was transitioning into product leadership was clarity of purpose and the role process plays. Jason was working in medical devices and the stakes are high in that product category and a lot of risk. The division leader went to all meetings when there was a product issue that could have a patient impact. [35:45] The division leader always brought clarity by asking what is the process telling us, and is the process benefitting us? If the process isn’t giving us clarity as to what the answer might be, we probably don’t have a good process in place. Jason’s takeaway was the role process plays in helping to understand the root cause of what’s going on. If the process isn’t giving the answer, make some changes. [36:28] The final answer never comes from the product. What is all the data telling you, and how does that translate into the impact on the customer? In medical devices, of course, patients are the most important. Keep what is most important to your organization front and center in decisions when things don’t go as planned. [37:30] Jason has been an outdoor enthusiast his entire life. In the past year, he started guiding in the Grand Canyon. It has been absolutely fascinating. When you’re a guide in that setting, people are out of their element and hold guides in high regard. Jason hosts a picnic lunch and insists on doing all the cleaning. It sends the message that he’s there to serve and a reminder of the power of service. [39:09] People hiking into the Grand Canyon have varying levels of physical fitness. The two things to be most concerned about on the hike are dehydration and heat exhaustion. You need people to be on point and listening, from the very start of the trailhead. It is very hard to keep people focused and get to where you want them to go. Pace matters. There are no easy hikes into the canyon and out. [40:18] You have to get the right feedback mechanisms in place. Verbal communication can be one of the worst ways to get feedback on a hike. You have to set up mechanisms to get guest feedback. Are they stumbling? How much water are they drinking? Jason counts water bottles. Organization leaders also have to be aware that much is non-verbal. Set up feedback mechanisms. Pay attention. [43:16] Jason offers three core elements that come together to create a high likelihood of success: Work hard, follow your interests, and chase experiences. If Jason hadn’t chased the experience of a crucible with Jan, he probably wouldn’t be doing outdoor leadership experiences and executive coaching now. He thanks Jan for that. It was walking the talk. [44:40] Closing quote: Remember, “” — Howard Thurman   Quotable Quotes “What Gore has really done well, historically, is emphasize the power of small teams. Not only small teams but, in addition, … emphasis on the most knowledgeable employee … taking responsibility for decision-making. … Decision rights don’t come with being a leader.” — Jason “If the idea is to be adaptable and really draw upon the creative thinkers on the team, you have to think about processes that are going to move information to those teams in a timely manner so they’ve got relevant information.” — Jason “Depending on the problem or the opportunity that’s presented, you want to be able to draw upon those individuals that have the deep analytical skills or those that can kind of characterize the problem and draw out the insights from others to orient the team.” — Jason “Integrity has a dependency on all the other values that sit behind it.” — Jason “Celebrate those individuals, those teams, and those products that are demonstrative of the values that you hold dear. And that’s how you start to embed this into organizations.” — Jason “When a leader is willing to pick up a broom or pick up trash, the message that sends to the organization is pretty cool.” — Jason “A lot of times when you ask those questions, you don’t always get honest answers, so you’ve gotta have those other cues that are feeding you information.” — Jason “The hard work comes easy when the interest level is high.” — Jason   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by:  

Mike is the author of “Leadership in Balance and Management in Balance,” the founder of Crispian Consulting, and a retired Army officer. Mike shares his thoughts on balance and equilibrium, and what that means for management versus leadership. Contained in this episode is essential advice for newly-minted leaders, and a discussion on learning tools. At the end of the episode is a great “both/and” challenge!     Key Takeaways [3:05] Mike played rugby as a Military Academy cadet. He had a lot of fun with his teammates. Rugby helped him develop into the person he is. [4:05] Jim met Mike as a keynote speaker, speaking about balance and being a fulcrum. Jim took a lot of notes. Mike defines balance for leaders and managers. It’s not things being equal, it’s the equilibrium of a work/life balance. Mike talks about managers spending up to 80 hours a week at work. That doesn’t leave equal hours to spend with your family. When you’re home, give them your undivided attention. [6:23] Mike teaches “both/and” as an alternative to the “either/or” way of looking at problems. The vast majority of things in life are not dilemmas where you must make one or the other choice. Most questions involve equilibrium or equipoise. Apply the right amount of each choice to where it balances. Mike says to be the fulcrum. Be the point on which balance is achieved. [7:49] Mike writes about four central domains in leadership: Communication, Adaptability, Focus, and Influence. You can find an equilibrium but the environment is constantly changing so your equilibrium will also change. Mike works with people to be ready for change. A key part of the model is situational awareness. What’s going on in the environment that’s different from your natural tendency? [10:11] Mike admits there were times as an Army officer when he should have given more direct orders. Instead of telling people why something was important to do, he needed to tell them how to do it. He didn’t always recognize what the situation demanded of him so he couldn’t be the fulcrum. [12:14] While doing the Audible version of his first book. Leadership in Balance, Mike realized that the four central domains have descriptive names. Communication is the Foundational Domain, upon which leadership is built. The other three domains rely on effective communication. Focus is the Purpose Domain. Adaptability is the Action Domain. Influence is the Mission Domain. [14:27] Mike’s second book, Management in Balance, is out now. It covers four domains, Time, Material, Risk, and Change. [15:08] Mike addresses the mindsets of abundance and scarcity. What is your attitude about an abundance of risk, versus a scarcity of risk, or an abundance of material, versus a scarcity of material? Mike quotes former Green Beret Kevin Owens: “The most innovative people I know are poor.” The conditions are the conditions, so we have to deal with the condition, whether abundance or scarcity. [16:50] Are you seeing risks that are not there? Are you not seeing risks that are present and are you becoming reckless? The balance comes into play in that as a manager you have to deal with the current condition honestly and as it exists but you have to prepare yourself and your team for that shift that is going to come. Supply chain issues are examples of shifts. Adjust to conditions as they change. [19:39] Using an Army metaphor, you need to position yourself where you can best influence the action. You might need to stand back a bit to have a wider view and receive news from outside organizations. Or you might go to the front lines to direct people who don’t know what to do. That’s one of the ultimate leadership calls. The same principle applies in a business context. [20:29] Being the fulcrum is creating the ability for equilibrium by managing resources and assigning tasks. Mike says ultimately, time management is task management; how you prioritize and assign tasks. That’s the nexus of leadership and management. Position yourself as a leader/manager where you can do the most to create equilibrium in these areas. Be open to signals coming from the environment. [21:33] Empowerment and subordinate development consist of pushing decisions down as far as you can send them. Stan McChrystal taught MIke to get the authority down to where decisions can be made most effectively. Mike notes that Ukraine is using that model now, based on U.S. assistance from 2014. Mike asks, are you doing it well, are you doing it right, and are you doing it in a way that makes sense? [23:04] The fulcrum creates balance based on where it’s positioned along the lever. You, the leader/manager create balance by how you influence, position yourself, lead, and manage in these domains access your organization. [24:28] Mike discusses newly promoted “player-coaches.” Both of Mike’s books are intended for new managers and also senior leaders who are responsible to promote new managers and leaders and he invites leaders to make these decisions thoughtfully and intentionally.[26:07] The first thing anyone entering into a new position needs to decide is whether they want a job or a career. Get it wrong and you will be miserable to be on the wrong path. And senior management needs to be able to look at you and see if you have leadership potential and the desire for a career. Are you willing to make the physical, emotional, and mental sacrifices that leadership requires? [29:20] Sometimes we get frustrating answers from asking the wrong questions. Sometimes our ego stands in the way of asking the better question because we don’t want to know the answer. Or we overlook that we might have been wrong previously. Surround yourself with smart people. Put together a smart team with at least one person who asks, “What are we missing? What is another possibility?” [30:29] Always look for the third option. Don’t let decisions be either X or Not-X. Having one more option forces you to think more deeply about the problem and how that plays out as a solution. Most of us quickly make decisions based on experience. Step back and ask some other smart people what they’re seeing. Reframe the problem. Mike tells how he addressed an IED problem to improve mobility. [34:03] Remember that everything you do as a team or an individual is a performance cycle. A performance cycle has four steps: Plan, Prepare, Execute, and Review. Don’t skip the Review step, especially if you succeed, because it will help you plan better for the next performance cycle. [37:21] Mike’s next book focuses on management and leadership as a “both/and” proposition and will speak to executives. Mike discusses the risk to mission, the risk to people, and the risk to reputation. You have to know where those three types of risks are lurking. Manage to mitigate that risk to your people, your mission, and your reputation. Look for opportunities to find acceptable risk and grab market share. [40:43] Mike wrote the second book to define management, setting the stage for his next book, covering leadership and management. New managers always ask Mike whether management or leadership is more important. The better question is, how are they different and when do you do each? The domains for the Management/Leadership equipoise are: What, How, When, and Why? [42:45] Mike’s challenge for listeners: Find the “both/and.” When you think you’re on the horns of a dilemma, step back for a minute and ask, “Is this really an either/or proposition, or is there some question of equilibrium that needs to be found between these competing demands?” If you do that, you may find that you are more effective and a lot happier in your role. [44:07] Closing quote: “There is no decision that we can make that doesn’t come with some sort of balance or sacrifice.” — Simon Sinek   Quotable Quotes “A lot of people, their thoughts immediately go to things being equal; … a balanced scale. … Balance is not about things being equal. Balance is about finding equilibrium; a work/life balance.” — Mike “The equilibrium comes in when you’re home, giving them your undivided attention, putting your work aside, and getting involved in the things they’re involved in.” — Mike “The vast majority of things are a question of balance, equilibrium, equipoise: to take these things that are in contention with each other and apply the right amount of each to where it balances.” — Mike “That’s why the ‘be the fulcrum’ thing comes into play. That’s my reminder to everybody that you’ve got to be the point on which balance, equilibrium, is achieved.” — Mike “As an Army officer, … I wanted to be more indirect in how I influenced people. I was very much, ‘This is what you’ve got to do and this is why it’s important,’ not, ‘this is how you’re going to do it.’ … There were situations where I should have been more like that.” — Mike “I've been asking a lot of clients lately, ‘What’s the most important thing that you do, and are you getting better at it every day?’ And almost invariably, it boils down to their ability to communicate.” — Jan “Limiting resources can make people very resilient. The most innovative people I know are poor.” — Former Green Beret Kevin Owens, quoted by Mike Lerario “If you’re in the retail business now, you’ve seen this roller coaster. You had a lot and all of a sudden, maybe people didn’t have money, and then people got money and they’re buying all your stuff and the supply chain gets impacted because there are 50 ships backed up.” — Mike “[Speaking] as an Army guy, one of the most important lessons is that you need to position yourself where you can best influence the action. In some cases that might mean that you’re standing back and you have a wider view of the battlefield.” — Mike “The fulcrum creates balance based on where it’s positioned along the lever. You, the leader/manager create balance by how you influence, position yourself, lead, and manage in these domains access your organization.” — Mike “I’m a firm believer that, especially with decision making, you have to find a third option, always. If you’re looking at the decisions as, ‘I’ve got to do A or I’ve got to do B,’ or ‘I’ve got to do X or Not-X,’ you’re going to fail. … You have a higher probability of failure.” — Mike   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by:

This episode is about the importance of finding the underlying causes for today’s common leadership challenges. It’s about not making the mistake of treating symptoms versus the underlying root cause. Learn how curiosity can inspire and provide insight. Often, the objective, analytic thinking that propelled you to the C-suite now needs to be paired with intuition and conceptualization for you to see the trends and patterns of issues. If you’re not a CEO, you can learn to think like one and increase your value to the organization. Listen to the end for the listener challenge!     Key Takeaways [1:26] This week’s topic: focusing on the problem. Jim recently talked to a client who had set a goal. The goal was a solution to a problem, for example, buying a new system that would run the company and fix everything. While talking about the solution, the client was not talking enough about the problem. Solving the problem is the goal. Does this solution, or another solution, solve the problem? [3:01] Jim thinks this is important because as consultants and coaches, Jan and Jim’s job is to dig into the problem, not just provide a solution. Jim worked with Bard Press on a book, and his contact, Todd, kept reminding him to focus on the problem. Jan and Jim recently interviewed Dre Baldwin who also said to focus on the problem! So this is a timely topic. [3:47] Jan quotes guest Brian Caulfield saying, “Sell the problem, not the solution,” as the most quotable quote of the podcast. When people look at problems, they often neglect to look for the root cause. They come up with an “either this or that” solution; the best solution might be “this and that.” Jan refers to Peter Senge and the Fifth Discipline, using systems thinking to figure out the problem. [4:45] The Pairin Behavioral Surveys that Jan has run find that 95% of the time, people score very high in Objective-Analytical and very low in Intuitive-Conceptual. Intuitive-Conceptual is about understanding the root causes of things and being open-minded. [6:18] When Jim does sales training, he goes back to Sandler for the Dummy Curve. When you get a new salesperson, who doesn’t know a lot about the product, but they’re successful right away, for two reasons: They don’t know enough about the product to talk about the product, so they ask a lot of questions centered around the problem. That creates an affinity with the customer. [7:48] Does the product solve the problem? No one cares how the product works if it solves the problem. Focus on the problem. When you don’t know how the product works, you have no choice but to focus on the problem. You ask questions that define the problem better. If the sales force knows too much, they want to show their mastery and talk more. That ruins the sale. [8:25] The Dummy Curve is that you come in, you have success, and then you lose it the more you learn. Jim coaches leaders not to train new salespeople too much on the product. Talk to them about the problem that their product solves. Coach them on the business problems people have that invite your product and solution. Have them be more curious about those. [9:25] Jan sees this episode as emphasizing the power of the question. Jan has been coaching about coaching and asking difficult questions. A better approach to a difficult conversation is “Hey, Jim, how do you think that meeting went?” rather than “Hey, Jim, you know what you did in that meeting?” The higher up we go, we need to be better about the questions. [10:16] Jan coached someone about presenting to a high level in the organization. The presenter was rehearsing what to say to influence a decision. Jan asked, “What objections and resistances do you expect?” They discussed how answers to objections could be questions and they considered sample questions. Questions don’t have power unless you’re curious about the problem and the root cause. [11:40] Talk about task conflict and not personal conflict. Depersonalize the difficult conversation. Focus on the issues. What is the problem that we need to solve together? Jan brings up an example of heating service people who got to the root cause of his problem. If you understand the root cause, you can at least put a bandage on it. Without knowing the root cause, that’s about all you can do. [14:47] Some reasons people are content with a bandage instead of getting to the root of the problem are that they don’t have time, they don’t care, competing priorities, or having so many problems crossing their desks that they don’t notice how big one specific problem is. They don’t have curiosity, or they have a bias toward quick action. Jan compares it to being seen by a dismissive doctor. [18:01] Jim refers to his upcoming book. The first part of the book is about diagnosing business symptoms. We sometimes mistake the symptom for the problem. Jim shares a story from the book about his father, having abdominal pain in his 60s. The doctor refused to look at the pain as the problem but recognized it as a symptom of an abdominal aortic aneurysm. She saved his life with surgery. [22:08] Jan explains the levers of change: people, incentives, structure, and process. Leaders are rewarded for being problem solvers so the incentive is to solve problems fast. At a certain point, when they start taking on high levels of responsibility, the job shifts from doing to thinking. Jan tells people to think like a designer. Look at each lever. It’s not always an issue for coaching to solve. [24:25] If you’re not the CEO but you want to be a valuable employee, think like a CEO. Help the CEO see what they might not be seeing. CEOs need to look at the broad performance of the organization and see the patterns, then dig and understand what’s behind those patterns. Past guest, Jim Gilmore, author of Look, wrote about seeing through binoculars, field glass, and microscope. CEOs need a field glass. [26:35] People are worried about budgeting for the next year and they’re all worried about low sales numbers. They’re looking for things to cut from the budget instead of asking what it would take to increase their sales for the next year. Jan always asks where the assumptions behind the budget are coming from.  [28:07] Jan notes that scaling means doing more with less by getting more productive and becoming more efficient. Jim asserts that the companies that don’t panic during downtimes but invest wisely can grow at great paces compared to those who batten the hatches and shrink. Always seek to understand the problem before solving it. [29:30] Look at the number of companies that were created and grew prodigiously in the Great Depression. The Great Depression was awful. The tech giants of today did not panic during the dot.com bust. They doubled down and grew. There are opportunities all the time but if you’re fixated on a solution, you will not see the opportunities that surround you. [30:39] Jim offers an audience challenge: Pay close attention over the week. Listen twice as much as you talk and listen for where you hear either yourself or other people so enamored with a solution that they are missing the real point of understanding the problem. If you recognize that moment, redirect the conversation; ask a question to understand. You will find a more productive outcome on the other side. [32:03] Jan reflects that Jim’s audience challenge will take temperance, self-discipline, and self-awareness to understand your effect on other people. Jim and Jan invite you to get in touch with your feedback on these Jim and Jan episodes and suggestions for what subjects you would like Jim and Jan to talk about next. [33:18] Closing quote: Remember, “It isn’t that they can’t see the solution. It is that they can’t see the problem.” —   Quotable Quotes “When we spend too much time talking about the solution, the trap we fall into is that we limit the possibilities for what the real solution could be because we’re not spending enough time talking about the problem.” — Jim “What course of action is going to be the best path toward the future?” — Jim “It goes back to the Fifth Discipline — what Peter Senge wrote about systems thinking.” — Jan “I say to leaders, ‘What got you here is your ability to see patterns … and make quick decisions. … But those quick decisions are based on paradigms and biases. As a high-level leader, you need to suspend that, have … an open mind, and figure out what’s causing this.’” — Jan “Talk to [new salespeople] about the problem that your product solves. Coach them on the business problems people have with regard to your product and solution.” “We need to talk about process and task conflict and not personal conflict.” — Jim “Too many times, we look at a symptom and we don’t realize — we think it’s the problem but it’s just the symptom and … the real business problems are masked by those symptoms.” — Jim “Everybody’s got blinders on.” — Peter Drucker, quoted by Jan “If you’re not the CEO but you want to be a really valuable employee, think like a CEO.” — Jan “We all know that scaling means you’re doing more with less. Not because we’re working people harder but because we’re getting smarter, we’re getting more productive, and we’re getting more efficient. Not because we’re driving people like machines.” — Jan “Look at the number of companies that were created and grew prodigiously in the Great Depression. … You could say times were different, but they’re not.” — Jim   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by: Interact with Jan and Jim on , , , and  

Jan Rutherford and Jim Vaselopulos, the hosts of The Leadership Podcast, explore core values based on the six cardinal virtues. Follow the discussion in this important episode to be reminded how the cardinal virtues apply in life and at work, and how you and your organization can move forward by going back to the fundamentals of leadership.   Key Takeaways [1:25] Jan and Jim have both received a lot of very positive texts about Episode 332, featuring Richie Norton, who talked about the brevity of life. Jan sees that people are planning frantically for next year. [3:05] Leaders are making sure they don’t get caught up in emotions but look at the facts. Jim refers to past guest Alan Beaulieu and ITR Economics. The slowdown we’re feeling is a slowdown in the rate of growth, not a recession. Slowing from 25% growth to 9% growth feels like the airbags just came on. Don’t overreact. [5:20] The numbers come from our words, deeds, and our ability to work through other people. Leaders get people to do things willingly that they would not do otherwise. How we lead depends on our values. Ask what is the most important thing, the second-most important, the third-most important, and so forth. We need to prioritize what we value and translate those values into behaviors we can observe. [6:47] If we say we value integrity, what is the observable behavior that comes from that value? Is hitting the number that top priority, or are people a priority? [7:42] It doesn’t matter what you say, it matters what you do. Your culture is a product of your daily decisions and how you treat people. [8:53] Jim recalls an experience from his first college internship at Glenview Tool Company. The owner, Mike Sciortino told him that a security device can’t prevent all theft but it can help keep honest people honest. Jim says, as leaders, let’s help people do the right thing. Let’s encourage them. [11:04] Jan shares a recent airline experience where “the system” wouldn’t allow the airline to fix a problem. The system should be for people! [11:40] Jan explains the six cardinal virtues: Wisdom, Courage, Humanity, Justice, Temperance, and Transcendence. Wisdom is built upon curiosity. We have to reward curiosity if we want people to be able to identify problems. Daily, use the statement, “That’s a great question!” Reward questions! It’s important to catch people doing right. [17:15] Take the focus of questions away from yourself and put it on the other person. Instead of saying, “I don’t understand this, can you explain it to me?” say, “That’s fascinating. Help me understand why you’re going about it that way.” [18:12] Courage gets a lot of talk these days. The best business translation of courage is honesty. Sometimes we say authentic. Jan coached a client who had been honest to their boss, but their boss just got quiet, as though wounded. If we want the truth, we need to hear it. Jim cites Choosing Courage, by Jim Detert. Courage is related to timing. Sometimes, wait for the right moment instead of blurting it out. [21:45] Jan’s client recently told him that part of being courageous is not being complicit. Don’t keep quiet about stuff. [22:39] Employees always have three choices about their workplace: Suck it up and deal with a toxic culture, try to change it, or leave. What do you stand for? What are you willing to compromise on, or not? It’s not like there’s much greener grass in different places, but there is different grass in all the organizations. You don’t have to be complicit in a toxic culture or abusive leadership. [24:40] Humanity is simple kindness or the Golden Rule. This can be hard because there’s a lot of competition. There’s tunnel vision. Some niceties go by the wayside. But research shows that human kindness works. Humans respond best to positive reinforcement. Humanity is a decision that doesn’t depend on anyone else. Just be kind, even if people are mean to you. It’s doing the right thing. [28:01] Jan tells of going from being a sergeant to being an officer. He was told, “You don’t have to speak like the soldiers; you can be above that.” It’s a matter of respect. If you try to fit in by speaking the cool lingo, it is inauthentic. [28:58] Justice is fairness. Organizations are asking people to be fair to one another. But, in personalized leadership, you can’t treat everybody the same, because of their individuality and the work function they have. People want one-on-one time with their leader. In all that, we have to be sure we’re being perceived as being fair. Encourage others in the organization to be fair and equitable. [33:19] Temperance is self-discipline. Without self-discipline and sacrifice, we can’t tackle big goals. John Wooden taught players how to put on socks and shoes so they wouldn’t get blisters. In business, we are missing so many fundamentals, such as starting and ending meetings on time and being predictable. [35:00] Jim says discipline is respect. Showing up to meetings on time is respectful of everybody’s time. Discipline with personal and business goals is respect for how important those goals are. If you don’t have self-discipline, you probably don’t have self-respect. Discipline thrives when you have respect. If you don’t have self-respect, discipline falters. [36:29] Transcendence is spirituality. In work, Jan sees it as being gracious and operating with gratitude. Jim reminds us that in the grand scheme of things, our role is small. How do you relate to the universe and other people and creatures? Barry Schwartz, in Practical Wisdom, told of janitors in a cancer care unit operating with graciousness because the patients were in great need and having a hard time. [38:19] The transcendent behavior of the janitors improved the condition of the patients, who were at their most humiliating moments. The janitors were looking at the bigger picture than cleaning up a mess. In high-performing organizations, people operate with that level of transcendence. People who win the Medal of Honor are operating with transcendence, also known as Mission, Vision, and Values. [39:20] Companies are not started for the sake of creating a great culture. A company starts because there is a market need, and they think they can help people. More people get involved and then they think about having a good company, which means having a good culture. People are tribal. The cardinal virtues are the rules to get along with our tribe and be of service to other humans in other tribes. [40:50] Things feel out of hand because we’ve gotten so far from the fundamentals. As you look at planning, go back and say, “Are we making this too complicated?” [42:24] Closing quote: Remember, “Courage is the most important of all the virtues because without courage you can’t practice any other virtue consistently. You can practice any virtue erratically, but nothing consistently without courage.” — Maya Angelou   Quotable Quotes “As [Richie Norton] reminded us, ‘Life is short’ isn’t a cliché, it’s true. and ‘Don’t defer your dreams.’ Boy, that show resonated!” — Jan “We had some sectors that were growing at 25% and now they’re only going to grow at 9%, so it feels like the airbags just came on because we’re slowing down from 25 to 9. … The slowdown is huge but it’s still a rate of growth. … Let’s not overreact.” — Jim “[As a leader,] you’re basically saying, ‘Let’s change the trajectory, let’s improve performance, let’s do something different that you wouldn’t have done if I didn’t intercede.’” — Jan “Your culture isn’t what you want it to be. Your culture is a product of the decisions you make on a daily basis. … Do [you] respect people? Do [you] listen to them when they have a concern?” — Jim “If people aren’t asking questions around you, you might be the emperor without clothes.” — Jim “There is a way to ask a question so that it will never be perceived as stupid. … [Instead of ‘I don’t understand this,’ say], ‘That’s really fascinating. What made you think to do it that way?’ or ‘Help me understand why you’re going about it that way.’” — Jim “We see what’s going on in big tech right now; it’s all fear. It’s awful. People are afraid to speak up.” — Jan “It’s not like there’s much greener grass in different places, but there is different grass in all the organizations. They’re different. There might be a place where the values line up better with what you’re all about. You don’t have to be complicit in a toxic culture.” — Jan “Humanity is a decision that doesn’t depend on anyone else. If you’re going to be kind, just be kind, even if people are mean to you.” — Jim “As leaders, we’ve got to encourage others in the organization to be fair and equitable.” — Jan “We know this: Without a certain amount of self-discipline and sacrifice, you can’t tackle big goals and defer short-term pleasures. It’s really hard. And any organization has really long-term goals.” — Jan “No company that I know of was started to create a great culture. … Every company starts because there’s a market need and they think they can help other human beings. And then they get more people involved. And then they say, … ``We should have a good company!” — Jan “We are tribal. To me, these cardinal virtues are the rules for us to behave in a certain way to get along with our tribe and to deliver services, offerings, and products to other humans in other tribes. That’s what we’re doing.” — Jan “Everything feels like it’s out of hand because we’ve gotten so far from the fundamentals.” — Jan   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by: Interact with Jan and Jim on , , , and

Jan Rutherford and Jim Vaselopulos, the hosts of The Leadership Podcast, explore core values based on the six cardinal virtues. Follow the discussion in this important episode to be reminded how the cardinal virtues apply in life and at work, and how you and your organization can move forward by going back to the fundamentals of leadership.   Key Takeaways [1:25] Jan and Jim have both received a lot of very positive texts about Episode 332, featuring Richie Norton, who talked about the brevity of life. Jan sees that people are planning frantically for next year. [3:05] Leaders are making sure they don’t get caught up in emotions but look at the facts. Jim refers to past guest Alan Beaulieu and ITR Economics. The slowdown we’re feeling is a slowdown in the rate of growth, not a recession. Slowing from 25% growth to 9% growth feels like the airbags just came on. Don’t overreact. [5:20] The numbers come from our words, deeds, and our ability to work through other people. Leaders get people to do things willingly that they would not do otherwise. How we lead depends on our values. Ask what is the most important thing, the second-most important, the third-most important, and so forth. We need to prioritize what we value and translate those values into behaviors we can observe. [6:47] If we say we value integrity, what is the observable behavior that comes from that value? Is hitting the number that top priority, or are people a priority? [7:42] It doesn’t matter what you say, it matters what you do. Your culture is a product of your daily decisions and how you treat people. [8:53] Jim recalls an experience from his first college internship at Glenview Tool Company. The owner, Mike Sciortino told him that a security device can’t prevent all theft but it can help keep honest people honest. Jim says, as leaders, let’s help people do the right thing. Let’s encourage them. [11:04] Jan shares a recent airline experience where “the system” wouldn’t allow the airline to fix a problem. The system should be for people! [11:40] Jan explains the six cardinal virtues: Wisdom, Courage, Humanity, Justice, Temperance, and Transcendence. Wisdom is built upon curiosity. We have to reward curiosity if we want people to be able to identify problems. Daily, use the statement, “That’s a great question!” Reward questions! It’s important to catch people doing right. [17:15] Take the focus of questions away from yourself and put it on the other person. Instead of saying, “I don’t understand this, can you explain it to me?” say, “That’s fascinating. Help me understand why you’re going about it that way.” [18:12] Courage gets a lot of talk these days. The best business translation of courage is honesty. Sometimes we say authentic. Jan coached a client who had been honest to their boss, but their boss just got quiet, as though wounded. If we want the truth, we need to hear it. Jim cites Choosing Courage, by Jim Detert. Courage is related to timing. Sometimes, wait for the right moment instead of blurting it out. [21:45] Jan’s client recently told him that part of being courageous is not being complicit. Don’t keep quiet about stuff. [22:39] Employees always have three choices about their workplace: Suck it up and deal with a toxic culture, try to change it, or leave. What do you stand for? What are you willing to compromise on, or not? It’s not like there’s much greener grass in different places, but there is different grass in all the organizations. You don’t have to be complicit in a toxic culture or abusive leadership. [24:40] Humanity is simple kindness or the Golden Rule. This can be hard because there’s a lot of competition. There’s tunnel vision. Some niceties go by the wayside. But research shows that human kindness works. Humans respond best to positive reinforcement. Humanity is a decision that doesn’t depend on anyone else. Just be kind, even if people are mean to you. It’s doing the right thing. [28:01] Jan tells of going from being a sergeant to being an officer. He was told, “You don’t have to speak like the soldiers; you can be above that.” It’s a matter of respect. If you try to fit in by speaking the cool lingo, it is inauthentic. [28:58] Justice is fairness. Organizations are asking people to be fair to one another. But, in personalized leadership, you can’t treat everybody the same, because of their individuality and the work function they have. People want one-on-one time with their leader. In all that, we have to be sure we’re being perceived as being fair. Encourage others in the organization to be fair and equitable. [33:19] Temperance is self-discipline. Without self-discipline and sacrifice, we can’t tackle big goals. John Wooden taught players how to put on socks and shoes so they wouldn’t get blisters. In business, we are missing so many fundamentals, such as starting and ending meetings on time and being predictable. [35:00] Jim says discipline is respect. Showing up to meetings on time is respectful for everybody’s time. Discipline with personal and business goals is respect for how important those goals are. If you don’t have self-discipline, you probably don’t have self-respect. Discipline thrives when you have respect. If you don’t have self-respect, discipline falters. [36:29] Transcendence is spirituality. In work, Jan sees it as being gracious and operating with gratitude. Jim reminds us that in the grand scheme of things, our role is small. How do you relate to the universe and other people and creatures? Barry Schwartz, in Practical Wisdom, told of janitors in a cancer care unit operating with graciousness because the patients were in great need and having a hard time. [38:19] The transcendent behavior of the janitors improved the condition of the patients, who were at their most humiliating moments. The janitors were looking at the bigger picture than cleaning up a mess. In high-performing organizations, people operate with that level of transcendence. People who win the Medal of Honor are operating with transcendence, also known as Mission, Vision, and Values. [39:20] Companies are not started for the sake of creating a great culture. A company starts because there is a market need, and they think they can help people. More people get involved and then they think about having a good company, which means having a good culture. People are tribal. The cardinal virtues are the rules to get along with our tribe and be of service to other humans in other tribes. [40:50] Things feel out of hand because we’ve gotten so far from the fundamentals. As you look at planning, go back and say, “Are we making this too complicated?” [42:24] Closing quote: Remember, “Courage is the most important of all the virtues, because without courage you can’t practice any other virtue consistently. You can practice any virtue erratically, but nothing consistently without courage.” — Maya Angelou   Quotable Quotes “As [Richie Norton] reminded us, ‘Life is short’ isn’t a cliché, it’s true. and ‘Don’t defer your dreams.’ Boy, that show resonated!” — Jan “We had some sectors that were growing at 25% and now they’re only going to grow at 9%, so it feels like the airbags just came on because we’re slowing down from 25 to 9. … The slowdown is huge but it’s still a rate of growth. … Let’s not overreact.” — Jim “[As a leader,] you’re basically saying, ‘Let’s change the trajectory, let’s improve performance, let’s do something different that you wouldn’t have done if I didn’t intercede.’” — Jan “Your culture isn’t what you want it to be. Your culture is a product of the decisions you make on a daily basis. … Do [you] respect people? Do [you] listen to them when they have a concern?” — Jim “If people aren’t asking questions around you, you might be the emperor without clothes.” — Jim “There is a way to ask a question so that it will never be perceived as stupid. … [Instead of ‘I don’t understand this,’ say], ‘That’s really fascinating. What made you think to do it that way?’ or ‘Help me understand why you’re going about it that way.’” — Jim “We see what’s going on in big tech right now; it’s all fear. It’s awful. People are afraid to speak up.” — Jan “It’s not like there’s much greener grass in different places, but there is different grass in all the organizations. They’re different. There might be a place where the values line up better with what you’re all about. You don’t have to be complicit in a toxic culture.” — Jan “Humanity is a decision that doesn’t depend on anyone else. If you’re going to be kind, just be kind, if people are mean to you.” — Jim “As leaders, we’ve got to encourage others in the organization to be fair and equitable.” — Jan “We know this: Without a certain amount of self-discipline and sacrifice, you can’t tackle big goals and defer short-term pleasures. It’s really hard. And any organization has really long-term goals.” — Jan “No company that I know of was started to create a great culture. … Every company starts because there’s a market need and they think they can help other human beings. And then they get more people involved. And then they say, … ``We should have a good company!” — Jan “We are tribal. To me, these cardinal virtues are the rules for us to behave in a certain way to get along with our tribe and to deliver services, offerings, and products to other humans in other tribes. That’s what we’re doing.” — Jan “Everything feels like it’s out of hand because we’ve gotten so far from the fundamentals.” — Jan   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by: Interact with Jan and Jim on , , , and The Marshmallow Test

Richie Norton is the author of “Anti-Time Management,” and a Marshall Goldsmith 100 Coach. He is the CEO of Prouduct, an INC. 5000 company.  In this episode, Richie opens up about tragedies that changed the way he lives, works, and spends time with his family. Richie describes work-life flexibility in three parts: Ability, Availability, and Autonomy. His message: Don’t defer your dreams.       Key Takeaways [2:15] Richie Norton walks his dog on the beach every day. He travels the world and works from his phone. [2:29] The name of his company, Prouduct, means products you’re proud of. At any given time, they make over 100 products. Besides being an entrepreneur, Richie coaches and consults. He is happily married and has seven children including three fosters. His youngest passed away but would have just turned 13. [3:50] Years ago, Richie was in Nashville working with the Zig Ziglar team on a project. He got a text from the State of Hawaii that a missile was about to hit his house on Oahu. Then a text that said it was not a test. He called home and finally, his son answered the phone crying, “I love you, Dad.” He thought these were his last moments. It was all a mistake. It shook Richie into thinking about other events. [5:02] Richie’s brother-in-law, Gavin, his wife’s only brother, had been living with their family. He passed away in his sleep at age 21. Life is short. They started living their lives differently and thinking about time differently. Richie’s fourth son, Gavin, named after his uncle, was born. He had a cough. Doctors said he was fine, but it turned out he had pertussis. In the hospital, he slipped away in his mother’s arms. [6:25] In thinking of these two tragedies, Richie came up with Gavin’s Law: “Live to Start, Start to Live.” Take the ideas that press on your mind, and start living them. Too many people push ideas aside claiming they don’t have the education, time, or money to make them happen. [7:11] Richie worked with Stephen M.R. Covey while in his twenties, training executives. Richie thought he was too young for the job but it wasn’t about his experience, it was about continuous improvement and learning. [8:05] Richie speaks of some life events. His foster children returned to their biological mother. His wife had a stroke and lost her memory. The business deal that took him to Hawaii fell through. His son got hit crossing the road and was badly injured. He is OK now. His wife got her memory back. Richie was shouldering a lot when he changed his life’s trajectory by putting meaning behind these events. [9:52] With meaning, Richie was able to keep his faith and continue moving forward. His meaning was in asking himself, “How can I live better, not bitter?” When you get stuck on what happened, ask yourself how to assign positive meaning. Approach your work from the dream, not toward the dream. [10:57] Covey would say, begin with the end in mind. He didn’t say, to begin with, the means in mind. You can change goals, habits, and strengths, which are all just means to an end. The approach of working from the dream and not endlessly toward it is powerful. You can collapse time. It’s a different way of thinking, living, and working. It’s anti-time management. [12:54] Richie learned that grief is a tunnel, not a cave. Things happen that impact us and the way we see where we’re going and what we have to look forward to. Richie’s purpose is his family. He wants to create the ability to have availability. Purpose is having character, creating relationships of trust, and being available for his family, and those for whom he needs to be available when they need him most. [15:48] Richie describes work-life flexibility in three parts: ability, availability, and agility or autonomy. When you look at the world through autonomy, availability, and ability, you can see how free you are to make the choices that you do, including the consequences. [18:28] You have to value your time, not time your values. You can’t sacrifice what you love for success. When you sacrifice what you love for success, you get neither. Infuse your work with your values or you will get a hollow life with hollow hopes. You can have money and meaning. You’ve got to bake it in from the start. [21:17] The second industrial revolution in the late 1800s came from the concept of time-motion studies. It is now known as Taylorism or time management. It was designed to control and master every aspect of workers. It takes and squeezes everything out of the worker for as long as possible to the point of breaking. Time management is about who controls how you use your time. [22:32] Anti-Time Management gives you control over your time. In Time Management, others tell you what to do. In Anti-Time Management, you decide. There is a balance between the two approaches. A full calendar is an empty life. An empty calendar means you’re a leader; it’s been handled. [25:18] The recent pandemic was the first time in history that everyone was experiencing the same thing at the same time. Technology advanced. Companies and talent started learning what was possible. People started seeing the world in a new way. People started distrusting companies and news outlets more than ever before. Of course, the corporations want everyone to come back in! [26:38] Can productivity increase working from home? It depends on the situation. [26:47] The leadership quality of the future that will be the most important leadership quality is discernment. When you have these gaps in data and interpretation, we need leaders and talent who can use discernment to fill them in to decide the direction we’re going to go. [27:50] Never have the switching costs of moving from one company to another been lower. People change jobs every 4.6 years. The company that supports talent in working for their role in the home is going to be the winner. [29:02] As soon as flexibility becomes a corporate benefit to the employee, it’s not a benefit to the employee anymore, it’s a longer leash. [29:56] Discernment comes in asking better questions for better answers. Problems are multi-dimensional. With discernment, you can make decisions that no one else saw. Ask open-ended questions. You can develop discernment. Richie has great mentors and surrounds himself with good people that think differently. It helps to listen to great podcasts like The Leadership Podcast. [33:23] If a chick doesn’t break out of its egg, it dies. Fear, negative pride, and procrastination are like an eggshell that we must break through to be our authentic selves. If you had no fear, pride, or procrastination, what would you be capable of? How would you feel? What would you do? You would be you. We go around trying to avoid past traumas through our decisions. [36:10] Richie sees that people have fear at work. In corporations, there is 99% work signaling and 1% working. Jan cites Joel Peterson, former Chairman of JetBlue: “24 hours is more than enough time per day.” Richie talks about having a purpose or reason bigger than your fear. At the end of the day, you get what you want, tragedies aside. You’ve got to be willing to do the work. [40:17] Richie does not like the retirement mentality. It has destroyed generations of people. He wants people to talk about it, as he does in Anti-Time Management. The retirement mentality is to put off what you want to do until you retire. You can do what you want now and find a way to responsibly support yourself your whole life. [42:06] Richie talks about the marshmallow test. The original study indicated that a child willing to wait 15 minutes for a larger reward rather than accepting a smaller reward now, would do better in life. But later studies showed that was not true. Richie compares the patient child to the obedient employee, willing to wait for rewards. Waiting is great for some things, but not for everything. [44:36] Your lifestyle is changed by how you get paid. The way you operate, the way you work, and the way you do things in order to earn, dictate your life. If you can work in a way where more gets done in less time, it will expand your ability to live, create, and be hyper-productive. Consider your purpose, priority, projects, and payments: If your payments can align with your purpose, you’re set. [45:59] Closing quote: Remember, “Time is the coin of your life. It is the only coin you have, and only you can determine how it will be spent. Be careful lest you let other people spend it for you.” — Carl Sandburg   Quotable Quotes “I don’t think people work for work’s sake; I think we work for something else, and so I love to help people create that something else and find work to support it.” “I held him for a second and handed him to my wife; she was in a rocking chair and I had my hand on his heart and we sang lullabies. He slipped away. There’s nothing like having a human being die in your arms. There’s just nothing like that.” “I came up with what I call Gavin’s Law, which is ‘Live to start, start to live.’”  “People say they have 20 years’ experience when in reality they only have one year’s experience, repeated 20 times. … Let’s go to work.” — Stephen M.R. Covey, per Richie Norton “A lot of times [people] get stuck on what happened. … Ask, … ‘How can I assign positive meaning to this?’ Because … if you can, then you can figure out your approach. When you approach something from the dream and not endlessly toward it, you work entirely differently.” “Goals, habits, and strengths have become means, that have become ends unto themselves. They’re just means to an end. You can change the goals, habits, and strengths.” “The way time tippers in Anti-Time Management treat time is the way Marie Kondo treats clothes and closet space. We look at it with, ‘What brings us joy? What doesn’t? What served us? What hasn’t?’”  “You have to value your time, not time your values.”  “I believe that the leadership quality of the future that will be the most important leadership quality is discernment. … When you have these gaps, we need leaders and talent who can use discernment to fill them in to decide the direction we’re going to go.” “There are more opportunities than ever. … People are saying to me, ‘How do we get the talent back?’ … Just hold on. … Never in the history of the world have the switching costs of working in one job or another been lower.” “If you want to be … the leader that brings in other leaders, … now we have an opportunity to show love, to be egoless, to look for talent where we are supporting them in the role that they’re working for … the role in the home; those are the companies that are going to win.” “Any fear that happens, if you don’t have a bigger purpose or a bigger reason, why would you do something about it? People are scared of losing their jobs and they stay.” “Change the way you get paid — change your life.”   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by:

Warwick Fairfax is the Founder of Crucible Leadership, a philosophical and practical approach for turning business and personal failures into the fuel for living life on purpose, in service to others. In this interview, Warwick shares the wisdom gained from losing his 150 year-old family business worth two-billion-dollars. He talks about how he became a person of intention and reflection. He discusses how we need to delve into our values and beliefs and live in alignment with them. He shares why character means more than credentials. Listen in for the ultimate lesson on working through adversity and the importance of resilience.   Key Takeaways [1:51] Warwick is a big cricket fan. He looks forward to watching a big upcoming Australian cricket tournament on an obscure cable channel in the U.S. [3:24] Warwick grew up in Australia in his family’s 150-year-old media business. It felt like it was his duty to go into the company. He went to Oxford, as his father had done. He worked on Wall Street, then got his MBA at Harvard Business School. He was seen by his parents as the heir apparent. He could not choose not to go into it. [5:38] Warwick believed the company wasn’t being well-run. In his youthful idealism, he launched a $2.25 billion takeover in August 1987. Things went wrong from the start. Other family members sold out and didn’t believe in Warwick or his vision. The company had an unsustainable level of debt. Warwick tried everything to keep it going. In 1990 they filed for bankruptcy. The company was sold. [7:20] Warwick’s wife is American and the couple moved to America in the early ’90s; they have been here ever since. Warwick’s crucible was devastating. In Crucible Leadership, a crucible is defined as a devastating setback or failure that fundamentally transforms your life. It was excruciating. How could he have been so dumb with a Harvard MBA? Warwick was in a bad pit of despair. He was at rock bottom. [9:40] Warwick was 26 years old when he launched the takeover. Blue-chip merchant bankers advised him not to do it. So he found less reputable bankers who told him, sure they can do it. They just didn’t tell him that it wouldn’t be sustainable. Warwick ignored the good advice and listened to the bad advice. [12:38] Warwick credits his stability with his Christian faith which has always been the center of his life. His crucible brought him closer to his beliefs. Warwick believes God loves us all unconditionally. He doesn’t need our stuff or our successes; we’re not our rank or position, we’re valued as human beings, beautifully and wonderfully made. Warwick’s faith is a cornerstone. [13:32] Warwick’s wife loves him unconditionally. Losing a couple of billion did not change that. In the ’90s, Warwick and his wife started having children. Warwick found meaningful work, such as doing finance at a local aviation services company and business analysis. The love of his family strengthened him. As he says on the podcast, Beyond the Crucible®, you’re not defined by your worst day. [14:40] You have to dig deeply into your fundamental beliefs and values; are you going to be defined by your biggest mistake or this biggest thing that’s happened to you? When something bad happens to you, you can either be angry and bitter at others or yourself for years, or you can say, “This is awful; this is unconscionable; what I did was stupid; OK, but I have a choice how I move on from here, how I live.” [15:51] Warwick’s essential problem was that he was living somebody else’s life. You’ve got to live your life and do what you were called to do, regardless of what laudable professions your parents have followed. You love your parents, but you don’t need to do what they did. You’ve got to be you.  [16:52] Failure can be helpful if it leads you to examine yourself. Often, vision comes out of the ashes of your crucible. The key is you’ve got to live your own life. You can’t inherit a vision. You’ve got to own it. You’ve got to feel like it’s your vision. That’s at the core of leading with uncompromised authenticity. [19:57] When you grow up in wealth, the crucibles are different but they’re there. Warwick always felt extremely stressed by the sense of obligation to go into the family business. Growing up, if Warwick got in legal trouble, he knew it would be front-page news. He could not afford to fail and embarrass his family. Life won’t always be perfect. You don’t need to look for failure or crucibles. [21:57] Crucible Leadership surveyed around 5,000 people asking how many of them had experienced crucibles of life-changing circumstances over their lives. It was 71%. There’s a 70% chance that people you know have gone through crucibles. Be forewarned before the battle. Have a game plan. [23:23] Over the years, Warwick has asked executives what their values and beliefs are and to what degree they are living in alignment with their values and beliefs. If they are out of alignment, he asks, would they rather change their values and beliefs, or change how they live? They always want to get in alignment with their values and beliefs. Ask the question. People often miss that they are not aligned. [25:35] If coaches don’t ask their executive clients about values and beliefs, nobody may ask and the clients may never think about it. They may go through life asking “Why is life so difficult? Why am I having all these crucibles?” Well, it may be self-inflicted. Maybe living out of alignment with their values and beliefs is part of the reason. [26:23] Warwick offers “must-dos” to lead through a crisis. First, your team must feel heard. That doesn’t mean you do everything they say. Show empathy, appreciate their concern, and explain why you are going in a different direction. If they feel heard, they are OK with a different decision, as long as it is not a moral difference. Your team should know you care about them as people. [28:47] If you listen to a team, and you’ve never taken input from any of them in 10 years, just saying “I hear you,” is not going to fly. At some point, you’ve got to take some input from your team, or listening is artificial. You need to know your blind spots. If you’ve got bright people on your team, you’ve got to trust them. If they all agree on something else, there’s a good chance that they’re right. Be humble. [30:34] Ego stops us from doing things that every business book advises. Every Executive coach will say, “Trust your team.” Because of ego, we don’t do it, and it leads to business failure or suboptimal performance. [31:39] It’s not just about getting to know people but about caring. You can’t teach people to care. If you don’t feel that people are worthwhile and deserve to be cared for, Warwick advises you to step away; resign. Let some other man or woman step into your job who can do a better job. If you have people on your team who demonstrate they don’t care for others, let them go and do damage somewhere else. [35:20] Warwick states that hiring people that don’t care is bad for long-term company performance. If you don’t provide a caring, nurturing environment, you will not hire good people. It’s as hard to hire good people as it has been in the last hundred years. If you believe in your company’s long-term performance, you’ll hire people who care. [36:33] Warwick would rather hire someone who cares than someone with the highest academic credentials. Their team will stick with that leader who cares. Hire for character. It’s the right economic choice and business choice. It’s the right ethical and values choice. [38:44] Warwick reflects on what he as an executive coach might have told his 26-year-old self, but he says it wouldn’t have helped. He would not have been moved from his plan at 26. Sometimes things happen and you have to go through them to learn the lesson. [39:56] In general, with young people, Warwick would coach them to make sure they understand their values, ethics, and beliefs. He would ask how what they are doing serves their values, ethics, and beliefs. People following a calling in line with their values and beliefs don’t stop at roadblocks. If they need help, they ask for it. [40:45] Warwick will sometimes ask his team to reassure him before a presentation because he knows the material, but his emotions tell him he might fail. A strong, confident person is willing to admit their vulnerabilities and ask for help, at an appropriate level of sharing. It doesn't make you less of a leader, admitting you’re a little bit nervous. [42:33] When you go through a crucible, don’t waste it. Learn the lessons. Have After-Action Reports. Learn to do what fits your values, beliefs, and wiring better. [45:39] Warwick shares his views on business valuation. Executives often wrap their identity in what they do. They wonder if they sell low if that makes them worth less as a person. After they sell, at any price, what are they, since they are not Joe Business-owner? Don’t let your business identity stop you from making a rational business decision. [47:48] Don’t just have an exit strategy; have a life strategy after selling the business. There are many worthwhile options, such as heading a non-profit, donating your time, creating a new start-up, or becoming a mentor, advisor, or angel investor. Close one chapter and start another chapter. Know your why. You’ve sold your company, not your identity. [50:24] It’s hard not to see your identity wrapped up in what you do. It’s easy to say; it’s really hard. It’s normal to feel pain when you sell a business. Jan cites Clayton Christensen, “How will you measure your life?” [51:26] Closing quote: Remember, “If there is no struggle, there is no progress.” — Frederick Douglass   Quotable Quotes “It was my sacred duty to go into the family business because we didn’t just produce widgets, we produced something that was of service to the nation of Australia. … This sense of duty was so hard-wired in me, I could not not go into it.” — Warwick “I’m pretty good at giving grace to others; pretty bad at giving grace to myself. … I have a tendency to think if there's a problem in the world, it’s my fault. I tend not to blame others.”  “They said, ‘Warwick, the numbers don’t add up, don’t do it.’ Well, that wasn’t what I wanted to hear.”  “When you go through a crucible, it either draws you closer to your verities and beliefs or further away.” “We say this all the time; we have our own podcast, Beyond the Crucible®, ‘You’re not defined by your worst day.’”  “You don’t always have a choice about what happened to you but you can choose how you look at your life, moving forward. That’s the essence of beginning to get out of the pit of despair and beyond your crucible.”  “My dad was sort of the intellectual guy that would have been a better philosophy professor. He was not a business guy at all. I mean, John Fairfax, my great-great-grandfather was a business guy but those genes had long since faded by the time it got to me, fifth generation.”  “The key is you’ve got to live your own life. … It’s great to love your parents but you can’t inherit a vision. You’ve got to own it. You’ve got to feel like it’s your vision. So that’s probably at the core of leading with uncompromised authenticity.”  “Unless you ask the question, they don’t even realize they’re living out of alignment with their values and beliefs because they don’t know what [they are]. We, as coaches, can really help our clients by just asking those questions. If we don’t ask, nobody may ask.”  “Typically founders are not very good general managers. They’re good entrepreneurs but they’re just different skills, so be humble enough to trust your team. It sounds so simple and so easy but ego gets in the way and that’s the problem.” “Every executive coach will say, ‘Trust your team.’ This is not new, what I’m saying. But because of ego, people don’t do it. It’s so sad; frankly, it’s stupid. It will lead to business failure or suboptimal performance.”  “I believe that hiring people that don’t care is bad for profitability and bad for long-term performance of the company. Maybe not short-term earnings per share, but long-term, because people like to work for people who care.”  “Young people increasingly have choices and if you don’t provide a caring, nurturing environment, you won’t hire them. It’s as hard today to find good people as it’s ever been in the last maybe 100 years. … If you believe in … your company, hire people who care.”  “If you’re following a calling that you’re passionate about that’s in line with your values and beliefs when you hit those roadblocks, you won’t stop. And when you do hit them, … a brave man or woman asks for help.”  “You’re more than just your title. You’re more than just a nameplate on your door. If that’s who you think you are, then that’s very tragic because you’re set up for misery and a bit of a fall. So, there’s some soul work, in the broad sense of the word, that you’ve got to do.”    Resources Mentioned Sponsored by:  

Lieutenant General Mark Schwartz retired from the U.S. Army after 33 years. A career Special Forces Officer, Mark served in a multitude of command and staff assignments, including the United States Security Coordinator of the Israel-Palestinian Authority. In this interview, Mark reveals the importance of having the right advocates in your corner. Mark shares his advice for young leaders, women leaders, and others on being intentional and deliberate with how they approach their careers.     Key Takeaways [3:10] Mark is pleased to be back in his home state of Colorado. Now that he is retired and has the opportunity to speak to civil society, he is focused on advocacy for women in leadership. [4:28] Strategic influence and influence at the local level come from having the right advocates in your corner. Mark talks about the effects that suspending diplomatic relations between the Trump administration and the Palestinian Authority had in 2019. President Abbas had lost his most important ally and his influence waned, while Netanyahu’s influence increased. [10:12] Mark learned from his time in Israel that everyone wants a leader who is ethically sound and has the character they want to emulate. It’s all about the people you have the privilege to represent and lead. If you’re not an example they’re proud of, people leave the organization and move on to find other leaders they want to work for and work with. [13:38] Politics has entered the business conversation. In the military, it is necessary to support the administration, even though the oath is to the U.S. Constitution, not to an administration. In the military, you can voice your opposition at every election. Mark recommends following thbusiness practice: use your voice at the ballot box, not at work, to avoid some real challenges in the workplace. [17:58] Loosely-bonded political alliances are essential. Mark illustrates that point with his first joint task at NATO leading the ground planning for a NATO mission expansion in Afghanistan. It was a very educational experience to learn the importance of inclusion. It applies also to businesses. Not everybody is going to get what they want but the voice of the collective body is powerful. [22:33] Empathy at the staff and HQ levels for your coalition partners is an important aspect of success. You are representing your nation’s interests, but you respect the caveats and interests of others. [26:18] In speaking of developing leadership, Mark describes an event along the Pakistani border that turned a situation from tactical to strategic quickly, for over six months. Mark was on mid-tour leave, but he called his commander to see if he was needed. He was told that someone he had helped develop had the situation in hand. The young operations officer managed a report to generals remarkably well. [29:27] Mark shares a model for advocacy for women in the military and business. The talent between men and women is similar. Merit is the most important factor. If you aren’t consciously creating opportunities for fair and equal competition for promotion or strategic-level leadership, you let some of your best folks go. Consider the propensity to serve. Keep the standards consistent. [33:51] People appreciate candid and honest feedback. All candidates are not equal. If someone is not qualified, you owe them that feedback to let them know why. Some preconceptions still exist. On one occasion, Mark explained to a female staff member that he was going to a well-qualified female executive officer to make an important statement to the command. [36:38]  When the Berlin wall came down in 1989, Mark thought that peace was almost here. There are still conflicts. Success against conflict comes through will and resolve, as Ukraine is showing the world. Mark talks about the Taliban taking over Afghanistan. As a nation, we need to understand the psyche of a country and determine what is achievable. [40:10] Mark discusses negotiations between Palestinians and Israelis, and why the Palestinians’ determination not to participate in any normalization dialog didn’t help them. Mark sees opportunities to work privately to create a better environment for the civil society of both Israelis and Palestinians. Mark offers suggestions of steps to take to get on track to reduce the levels of violence and tensions. [45:23] Mark’s advice for young businesspeople with leadership aspirations is to focus on doing the best you can on the job you have. Build your core competencies. After three to five years, make your desire to take on an entry-level leadership responsibility known to your next-level leadership. That could lead to getting a mentor or sponsor. Management should be on the lookout for bright women and men. [47:03] After you get your first leadership position, you will run into a lot of firsts. You will want a mentor or advocate because you don’t always go to your boss for help in dealing with things. [47:53] If you desire to be a leader and develop talent in your organization, you’ve got to identify early those individuals that have the potential to mentor you. The higher in the organization you are, the more important it is to be mentored. As you move up to mid-management, that is when most women stop rising in the organization. The C-Suite needs to watch for women with merit to mentor. [50:22] Mark is very grateful not only to have had the opportunity to serve as an American soldier but also to have had the support of the American people throughout his career. That support is highly appreciated by everybody who has served and who continues to serve. [52:37] Closing quote: “We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm.” — George Orwell   Quotable Quotes “If you don’t have the right advocates in your corner, it’s very hard to have any influence.” — Mark “It’s unfortunate when situations play out where the military is viewed as being politicized. As a senior leader in the military, it certainly disturbed me to see.” — Mark “If you’re truly doing your job in terms of talent and leader development, your responsibility is to advocate for those that you see potential in and create opportunities and provide advice, counsel, and sponsorship for those that deserve it.” — Mark “There’s no other way [besides DEI that] we’re going to balance equality across the workforce at every level.” — Mark “If you desire to be a leader and you desire to develop talent in your organization, you’ve got to identify early those individuals that have that potential. And as you get more senior, it becomes all the more important.” — Mark   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by:  

Hasard Lee is an F-35 pilot in the U.S. Air Force Reserve, and has flown 82 combat missions. He has the distinction of being the only fighter pilot to employ two different types of jets in combat on the same day. Hasard is a content creator with one of the largest defense channels on YouTube - with over 54 million views and a reach of 290 million people. Hasard has a book coming out in May 2023, The Art of Clear Thinking: A Stealth Fighter Pilot’s Timeless Rules for Making Tough Decisions. In this conversation, Hasard shares the rules for making tough decisions.     Key Takeaways [2:44] Hasard joined the Reserves in 2020. He still flies once in a while. Most of his time is devoted to writing his upcoming book. Hasard’s father was a physicist in the Department of Energy so they moved from Livermore, CA, to Los Alamos, NM, and Washington D.C. for his job. Hasard went to his first air show when he was five. He has pictures of himself in an F-15 with a helmet on. [3:59] Hasard got the flying bug when he was five. He memorized all the jets and was passionate about them. When he was 12, a friend of a friend of his father’s took him up in a Cessna 152 and Hasard got a little bit of yoke time. After that, he was hooked and he knew he wanted to fly in the Air Force. He started taking steps in high school to make it happen. [6:11] The happy place for fighter pilots is in the cockpit, flying. But developing systems for training fighter pilots on the F-35 is one of the best things Hasard has ever done. The F-35 is the most expensive weapons system in history and will probably fly into the 2070s. The training tech included simulators on laptops, VR goggles, and high-end simulators, all setting pilots on the right path for the next decades. [9:03] Joining pilots of different jets into one program is like a merger. And most mergers fail! Hasard contrasts the competencies of A-10 pilots for close air support for troops on the ground with the F-16 pilots that do much of what the F-35 pilots do, and the F-22 and F-15C pilots. Part of Hasard’s job was to create the syllabus, building from the lowest common denominator of what the pilots knew. [11:54] Hasard planned his book to be entertaining and to incorporate some of the principles he learned as a fighter pilot. Most chapters have a story from Hasard’s time flying and a story from history or the business world. He breaks it down through ACE: Assess, Choose, and Execute. That’s how fighter pilots make decisions. It’s developed from John Boyd’s OODA loop: Observe, Orient, Decide, Act. [12:44] Hasard explains assessing and prioritizing the information that comes before you using laws of power: exponential growth, diminishing returns, and knees in the curve; how to make decisions based on expected values; and execution. The number one thing is being prepared. Start with visualization, or “chair flying” from the beginning to the end in your mind, and plan how to handle contingencies. [18:07] How do you learn to evaluate the odds? With debriefs. A pilot will go fly for an hour and then debrief that flight for two to six hours and pick through everything that has gone right and wrong to sharpen their mental model and make it more in line with reality. Check your ego at the door. Call everything out. [19:55] This needs to be done better in the civilian world. Spend time with your team and write down lessons learned after every project in some sort of document that everybody can reference. After every flight, Hasard writes down in a little notebook three things he could have done better. Then, the next time he has a similar flight, he reads those notes to prepare. Leaders: are you doing this enough? [22:43] We’re all leaders. When it comes down to being a good leader, you need four things: Competence in your job and a level of competence in jobs that report to you, Caring, Conviction in the vision of what you do, and in the boundaries you will not cross, and Clarity for solving problems. With these four characteristics, you can get a team to move quickly in a certain direction. [25:21] Everything is predicated on how well you sleep. You perform better and make better decisions. It’s hard for fighter pilots to get enough sleep because they fly at all hours. A noise machine in the bedroom helps. Sleep is an exponential benefit to what you do. It will help every aspect of your life from your relationships to how well you see the world to solve problems. At least eight hours is optimal. [28:25] Self-care, such as nutrition, sleep, hydration, physical therapy, and psychology are being emphasized now in pilot training. The evidence is getting out there. It just needs to be a priority. Generation Z is prepared for it by not smoking. [31:30] Being a fighter pilot is not a one v. one cage match or Top Gun with four aircraft. Pilots work with hundreds of aircraft operating together. They deal with the space domain, the cyberspace domain, people on the ground, and aircraft ISR (intelligence, surveillance, and reconnaissance). It’s a force package of 100-plus assets working to create the best team possible. And the enemy is just as smart. [33:06] Advice for younger people who want to be fighter pilots: You don’t need to have perfect vision anymore! You can have Lasik or fly with contact lenses or glasses. If you want to be a fighter pilot, apply! [33:44] Hasard has noticed that in the military, everyone has similar values, along a range. The business world is more of an open ocean and you have to be discerning to figure out where a person is coming from and their intentions, and how well they execute. When you hire someone, they haven’t been through OCS or the Academy and pilot training. They don’t think like the military. Hiring is a challenge. [36:35] Hasard has a “Never Again story.” When he was a lieutenant learning to fly an F-16 he was doing high-aspect BFM with a colonel with 25 years of experience. Hasard wanted to impress the colonel. He pulled up to vertical at 245 knots — six knots too slow! He fell out of control. He was able to get the jet under control at 2,000 feet. He learned small changes in input can make very large changes in output. [42:06] Closing quote: Remember, “Clarity affords focus.” — Thomas Leonard   Quotable Quotes “There are three important power laws you have to know: Exponential Growth, … Diminishing Return, … and Knees in the Curve.” — Hasard “If you can slow down to less than about 250 knots [before ejecting], you drastically increase your chance of survival because speed behaves exponentially.” — Hasard “As soon as you put on your helmet, you lose 20 I.Q. points. And what that means is you don’t rise to the level of your expectations, you fall to the level of your preparation. … You have to be prepared … in a training environment even more difficult than combat.” — Hasard “If I could talk about all the benefits of sleep without saying it was sleep and just saying it was a pill, I think I’d probably be a billionaire. Because everything is predicated on how well you sleep. You perform better …  you make better decisions.” — Hasard “[Falling in an out-of-control jet] was a big eye-opening story for me that small changes in input can have exponentially large changes in the output.” — Hasard   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by: The Art of Clear Thinking: A Stealth Fighter Pilot’s Timeless Rules for Making Tough Decisions (Coming in May 2023)

Whitney Johnson is the Co-Founder and CEO of Disruption Advisors, a talent development company. Whitney is a globally-recognized thought leader. author, keynote speaker, executive coach, consultant, and a popular LinkedIn Learning instructor. In this conversation, Whitney discusses how musicality has lessons for the business world, and the wide applications of the S-Curve.   Key Takeaways [2:35] At her daughter’s prompting during the pandemic, Whitney and her family started watching Korean dramas. The family became obsessed with them. Whitney now studies Korean for two minutes a day on Duolingo. Whitney describes the characteristics of Korean dramas. [5:22] Whitney majored in music, studying classical piano and jazz. Because of her musical background, when she structures a keynote, a book, or a podcast, she looks for musicality and a musical structure to it. Musical structure and musicality inform the work she does. Also, as an experienced accompanist, she knows how to be second, allowing her to be a good interviewer, and as a coach, to listen well. [7:04] Brett Mitchell, the former conductor of the Colorado Symphony, said that music is what happens between the notes. Whitney discusses pauses relating to leadership and cites Clayton Christiansen, saying that partway through his career, Clayton Christiansen started a practice of praying before teaching a class. Once he started that practice, he started to have a significant impact on his students. [8:42] Whitney suggests that before you speak, have a meeting, or a coaching session, you pause and think about the person you’re about to speak to, and how to convey to the person that they matter to you, that is an element of leadership. [10:33] Wayne Muller, author of Sabbath, pointed out the pauses in Martin Luther King’s exclamation, “Free at last! Free at last! Thank God Almighty, we are free at last!” [11:41] Gino Wickman, in The EOS Life, recommends entrepreneurs take sabbaticals. One of Jim’s clients just took a sabbatical and reported that stepping back and taking a break allowed them to reflect and then grow. [12:20] Whitney has a LinkedIn Learning class, Grow Yourself, Grow Your Leaders, and a book, Smart Growth. Whitney’s view is that we are wired to grow. Virtuous growth is growing in such a way that everyone around you grows as well. She believes that human growth is unbounded. [13:23] Sociologist Everett Rogers applied the S-Curve to the study of how quickly innovation is adopted. Working with Clayton Christiansen, Whitney realized she could apply the S-Curve to individual change and growth. Growth comes in three stages: slow (launch), fast (sweet spot), and slow (master place). Every time you start a new role or a new job, you go through the curve. This is covered in Smart Growth. [14:45] Whitney’s LinkedIn course focuses on how to create the conditions where people around you can grow, with the resources they need, and how they can feel connected to what they’re doing and the people they’re working with. Whitney also talks about building resilience and nurturing people. If you can do all those things, you’re creating conditions wherein the people around you can grow. [16:59] Whitney makes the underlying assumption that if you will grow yourself then, by the contagion effect, the people around you will grow. Then, by default, your business will grow. [17:49] You can manage your organization as a portfolio of curves. The people at the curve’s launch point will need the most support. They will also have a fresh perspective, opening the door to innovation. You want about 20% of the people in your organization to be new, 60% to be in the sweet spot, and 20% in master, ready for a new challenge. This is a good distribution for innovation. [20:10] De-prioritize the things you do really well that somebody else could do. Whitney gives an example from a client. If you stop doing the things you should delegate to others, you will have time to do the things only you can do, and you get out of the way for them to work on the steep part of the S-Curve. [23:06] Every organization needs to have, as part of their vision, growing human beings and helping them reach their potential. The vision starts with the founders, and as people join the organization, they begin to co-create the vision with the founders. Everyone helps each other grow. In the most fluid, powerful organizations, everyone contributes to the creation of the vision. [26:56] Whitney addresses growth pre-pandemic, in-pandemic, and post-pandemic. A lot of adaptation and resilience have been required. When people are under stress, they go to default stress behaviors. You need to make sure people work together and not against each other. People want to grow but are not always sure how to do it. This goes back to Whitney’s course, Grow Yourself, Grow Your Leaders. [28:39] Whitney asks Jan and Jim for their thoughts on getting people to work together under stress. Jim states that when people are stressed they need time and space to solve their problems. People are pausing to figure out how to work together. People need time and space to get up to game speed. Executives are not paid to be busy. Pausing is a good way to grow by asking yourself tough questions. [31:35] Whitney has an assessment that she administers to clients. It includes seven accelerants of growth. The one that ranks the lowest is frequently “Step back to grow.” People are not taking time to pause and reflect. Whitney quotes Tiffany Shlain who asks, “What if we thought of ‘rest’ as technology because the promise of technology is to make you more productive?” [34:17] Egon Zehnder surveyed 1,000 executives whether they strongly agreed that to transform your organization you need to transform yourself. Before the pandemic, 18% of executives agreed. After the pandemic, 805 of the executives agreed. The only way you have the moral authority to ask people to change is if you, yourself, are changing. The fundamental unit of change is the individual at every level. [37:52] Whitney lists some people that inspire her, and why: Rashika Tolshan, who wrote about the Queen of England passing away, Brené Brown, Musician Jacob Collier, author Richie Norton, and NFL QB Steve Young. Each of them inspired Whitney with their visions of growth. [41:35] When Whitney was making her list of influential people, her default was to go to all men. She had to make sure she included some women. She had to be very mindful and deliberate to determine who is actually influencing her and she wanted a diversity of perspectives. Jim highlights the leadership lesson of intentionality. [42:49] Whitney’s audience homework: On the topic of pausing and resting, listen to these two episodes of Whitney’s Step Back to Grow podcast: Episode 139 with filmmaker Tiffany Schlain and Episode 180. Don’t avoid taking a pause to rest. [43:57] Closing quote: Remember, “It’s all to do with the training: you can do a lot if you’re properly trained.” — Queen Elizabeth II   Quotable Quotes “Because of being a musician, I think of things in a musical sort of way. When I’m structuring a keynote; … a book; … a podcast, there’s always a sense of, ‘Is there a musicality to it; is there a musical structure to it?’” — Whitney “I wrote a piece about the importance of taking a break, that you needed to rest because the ability to rest was going to allow you to recharge so that you could then move forward.” — Whitney “For me, growth is our default setting. We’re wired to grow.” — Whitney “Every time we start something new, we’re on a new S-Curve. There are three stages. There’s the launch point that feels slow, there’s the sweet spot, … where growth is fast, … and … the master place, where growth is … slow.” — Whitney “People who are successful are intentional. It doesn’t just fall in your lap. … Successful people are intentional people and [a high] level intentionality is something to be admired and something for people listening to this podcast to take away.” — Jim   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by: Tiffany  

Audrey Darley Welch heads up the partner program for Darley Defense, W.S. Darley & Company’s military distribution business and its largest division. Her team manages the company’s partnerships with key suppliers of tactical and fire-fighting products and services. In this episode, Audrey shares lessons she learned from working in various industries and now at Darley. She tells how she adapts to working in a male-oriented field, how she applies sports metaphors to her team, and what she learned from bad assumptions.    Key Takeaways [2:09] Audrey originally had intended to become a high school math teacher and volleyball coach. But she didn’t realize you had to be a calculus whiz to teach algebra! She decided to go into finance, instead. She is still passionate about sports and coaching. [3:01] Darley, a family-owned business of four generations, has a family employment policy that requires family members to work outside the business for a period before joining Darley. Audrey had not planned to work at Darley. She started a banking career after college. After three years, she considered joining Darley. For a year she went to board meetings and shareholder meetings and researched Darley. [3:53] When Audrey decided she wanted to join Darley, she wrote an application essay. The open position was a dealer development person for Darley’s legacy pump division. She got the job and spent a year working in that area but it was not the ideal position for her background in finance and relationship management. [4:28] Audrey was interested in getting exposure to different areas of the business. She found a position in supplier relationship management in the Defense Division. It was a job she was weel-qualified for and she has been working in the supplier relationship function for the last seven years. [5:40] Working at a large bank before coming to Darley allowed Audrey to see how big companies do things, their policies, and their structure. She was able to see what her strengths were at work. The largest thing she learned was the discipline and accountability of being part of a professional organization. [7:03] Audrey feared before joining Darley that she would have to follow her father’s leadership style. He is an extrovert and Audrey is introverted. Audrey’s advice to the next generation would be to be natural. She also advises the next generation to find out what fresh ideas the business needs to set it up for success, respecting the secret sauce, the family. Darley has had 300% growth in the last five years. [10:01] Audrey doesn’t have a problem with being an offspring, the fourth generation, or being a woman in a male-dominated field. She works well with her male cousins and men in the industry. She goes on pheasant hunts, fishing, and to the Wisconsin supper clubs with the men, so being a woman didn’t make a difference to her career. Audrey describes a Wisconsin supper club, for those unfamiliar. [12:34] Audrey talks about one’s personal responsibility to pursue professional development. Especially in the family business environment, it’s all about initiative. She doesn’t expect her generation to be nurtured in the business. Each person needs to pave their own way. Audrey recommends a career map with a “From-To” statement and figuring out what kind of experiences you need to get there. [15:26] Does Audrey want to be President? At Darley, there is no job description for President; currently, the CEO, President, and Chairman are all the same person. So Audrey went ahead and developed a job description for the President as she sees it and as she thinks she would do well in that role, and where they can split off CEO responsibilities. She finds those types of exercises to be very refreshing. [17:25] Soon, the fourth generation will get together to talk about all the positions and get clarity on succession planning. Everybody at Darley has worn a lot of different hats, and it’s time to separate their roles, especially of the senior leadership team. [18:51] In a mid-level role like Audrey’s, leadership is tough. She has five direct reports and will soon have six. The company is trying to scale, with top-level goals, and every team is checking that their goals align with the company goals, but managers may not realize they do not align with cross-functional team goals. Audrey shares a misstep she had made with goals that impacted the Sales Team’s goals. [22:11] Audrey presented to senior management in a virtual meeting the initiative she had developed. When she heard “crickets,” she knew something was wrong. She started getting pushback from sales and business development. Her incorrect assumptions had damaged her trust level across departments. Sales reps started having friction with account managers. Get feedback! Silence is not compliance! [24:46] Audrey ties a lot of her leadership to sports and the volleyball she played in school. She was the setter in volleyball, setting her teammates up for success. The setter is usually named the captain of the team because they’re running the plays. At work, she considers herself the captain of her team, and the coach. Audrey is concerned about perfecting the fundamentals. [25:46] Audrey’s volleyball coach had her do 1,000 repetitions against the wall before coming out for a game to start setting people up in the warm-up. She uses repetition at Darley, focusing on strategies and core competencies. [27:30] Sports metaphors may not work for everybody. Audrey says something that applies to almost all sports is never to sacrifice form for speed. That’s how you get injured. Slow down to speed up. [28:45] Government contract bids need to be submitted within 72 hours. Audrey says that cutting corners on supplier due diligence can cause problems. Darley’s core value is integrity, and speed is not integrity. Never bypass your core values. [31:54] Audrey tells how she achieves work-life balance. She has her priorities straight. Even so, when she chooses personal over business or business over personal, sometimes there is some guilt felt. Her husband helps. Figure out work patterns with your partner or whoever is helping you with all this and get into a routine. [34:38] Audrey does not think remote work will go away. Audrey prefers hybrid to all-remote. About 60% of companies are offering remote work. It’s not a fad. Audrey values in-person collaboration. She values in-person collaboration time in the office. That can be managed in two-to-three days. Remote doesn’t work for every position. Audrey’s quality of life has drastically improved through hybrid work. [37:08] Audrey comments on what veterans can do to have a successful transition to business life. Veterans at Darley are very aligned with and connected to the mission, which catapults their careers forward. The biggest challenge is understanding the business world. You need to be flexible and wear different hats. You may be uncomfortable. Getting an MBA before coming to Darley helps a lot. [40:21] Three points that will help anyone transitioning into the business world: 1. Be curious, 2. Be adaptable, and 3. Figure out ways to be confident without knowing everything about everything. [41:04] Audrey’s closing thought for listeners: Build your sounding board early. Besides joining forums, having mentors, and tapping the knowledge of the board of directors, it is most important to participate in a peer group to help you get where you want to go. [42:37] Closing quote: Remember, “There is only one corner of the universe you can be certain of improving, and that is your own self.” —Aldous Huxley   Quotable Quotes “I found out that I’m very detail-oriented and I do like relationship management on the customer side.” — Audrey “Are we setting up the future of the business for success with the way that we have it? Right now, we’ve had 300% growth over the last five years.” — Audrey “When it comes to building trust and relationships, I’m out there doing the pheasant hunts, and the fishing, and the beer-drinking, and the supper clubs in Wisconsin up near our plant, and all that. So I don’t think [being a woman] really did play a role.” — Audrey “I ran through, ‘This is what it means for the division, this is what it means for sales.’ I was trying to highlight all the good things that would come from an initiative like this. … It was like ‘crickets.’ … Sometimes not hearing anything at all can be a message.” — Audrey “[Sports] is where it all started. And I still do, I tie a lot of it back to sports, or even just fitness, in general. I was a setter in volleyball, very much the quarterback or the point guard equivalent. You’re setting people up for success.” — Audrey “You won’t hear me say I don’t value that in-person collaboration time.” — Audrey “We’re a distributor and we sell a lot of different types of products, we call on a lot of different types of customers. … They may not feel as comfortable. … Everybody’s bought into the importance of the equipment we sell.” — Audrey   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by:  

Dr. Marianne Lewis is renowned for her research on the paradoxes of leadership and is coauthor, with Wendy Smith, of Both/And Thinking: Embracing Creative Tensions to Solve Your Greatest Problems. The conversation covers how we can learn to think about paradoxes, and why tension is necessary for balance - and to achieve innovation.       Key Takeaways [2:14] Marianne grew up with a father in academia. She was determined not to be a professor in academia. In her rebellion, she came to the Midwest to find her space. And she loves Cincinnati and is absolutely in academia, studying leaders. [3:51] Marianne addresses why “both/and” thinking is essential for emotional balance and rational behavior. [5:25] Marianne refers to James March’s teachings about the complexity and messiness of the world we live in and bounded rationality, meaning there’s just so much one can take in. We do what we need to do to get by in a busy, complicated, messy world that pushes us toward looking at our tensions and dilemmas as “either/or” trade-offs. [7:08] A few years ago, Marianne and her team built a psychological “instrument” they call a paradox mindset. They’ve studied thousands of people in multiple languages. From their observations, it appears that the way we think is learned. Your ability to manage tensions appears to do with how often you deal with tensions and how much you try to embrace and work through them. More study is to come. [9:45] Paradox thinking and systems thinking are related. A “both/and” thinker tends to think more in systems, looking for interactions and feedback loops. Systems thinking involves looking at complexity in context and in new ways. “Both/and” thinking adds to looking for the value in tensions as you work through the complexity to find more creative and more lasting solutions to your problems. [11:18] There are tensions between things and between systems, but the important tensions are between individuals. Marianne has worked in this field for 25 years, 20 of them with Wendy. They found three factors that intensify the experience of tensions: Change. Today is becoming tomorrow faster. Scarcity. As soon as you feel that you’re slicing the pie thinner, you feel tension. Plurality. A multiplicity of stakeholders with pressures that differ. [12:13] We’re in the perfect storm of change, scarcity, and plurality. We are living in tensions in our lives, organizations, and society. The tensions are interwoven across levels and facets. [13:48] Vicious cycles reinforce errors in our thinking. Marianne talks about three vicious cycles: Going down the rabbit hole, or deep ruts of behavior. Overcorrecting in the opposite direction. Polarization. Shouting, diminishing each other, and doing anything but listening. [15:47] Get out of the trench by asking, “What are they thinking? What are they seeing? Can we learn?” [16:43] Virtuous cycles are reinforcing tendencies that help us navigate tensions. Marianne sees two patterns of virtuous cycles. One is Creative Integration, taking the best of two extremes, such as radical innovation and efficiency, and putting them together creatively. Marianne compares this to a mule, stronger than a horse and smarter than a donkey. Creative integration is rare. [18:13] The second pattern of virtuous cycles, Dynamic Balancing, is more common. Marianne compares this to tightrope walking; looking to the horizon while dealing with the present tensions. Don’t panic in tense moments; keep moving forward. You’ll learn as you do it. [21:01] Help people understand why embracing tensions and creative friction fosters opportunities for creativity, learning, and older innovations, moving forward. Marianne tells of Paul Polman when he was CEO of Unilever, who said Unilever would double its profits by reducing its environmental footprint. On every issue he discussed, he wanted to have tension on the team. He was provocative and purposeful. [24:22] “Either/or” and “both/and” thinking are both about decision-making. Uncertainty is potentially paralyzing for “either/or” thinkers. You don’t know what the right solution is and the right solution tomorrow may be different. But the point is to keep making decisions, having the confidence and the humility to know you can move forward, whatever the results are. Keep in mind your higher purpose. [26:06] The boundary around the tensions is what holds the elements together. Marianne is seeing an existential crisis in academia and business that strikes her as a lack of meaning. We need to be pushing harder on finding that boundary. [26:43] Is work a transaction of time for money, or does it have meaning and legacy? You serve other people and make their lives better. Leaders need to create an environment where people want to come and bring their best. If a company has a bunch of people in transaction mode, Jan puts it on the leaders. Marianne says it’s key for that leader to tap into why they are there. Make the transactions matter. [29:02] Marianne addresses the role of leaders to help us out of the malaise in our society, even in this wonderful world. First, ask why we feel that malaise. Richard Farson wrote of the paradox of rising expectations. At the lowest state, there’s no hope. As people realize the potential, as hope grows, the bar raises and people see what could be! The frustrations and protests rise. [30:20] The frustration should be encouraging to leaders. If your people are silent, either they don’t care or they are so far below the water that they don’t have time or energy to complain. The complaining is because people see that we could be ever better. The world is so polarized because we have very different views of how we get there. You get turf warfare between different sides with different ideas. [31:09] If we could agree that we all want a better world. There are lots of paths to get there. How do we listen and learn from each other? We need leaders, ourselves included, to make sure that raised bar says it’s about wanting a better world. It’s not about the how, it’s about what we want. Let’s have good debates and get the friction in the room and think about how we get there. [31:54] Sam Walker, author of The Captain Class, told about a study he did of the most successful sports teams in history. They had captains with unique characteristics that helped build the teams. They dealt with task conflicts and process conflicts but avoided personal conflicts at all costs. When people focus on the task or process, it is productive, not a personal attack. [33:20] Marianne discusses two sides of conflict: the destructive and the empowering. The difference is your focus: the person, feeling the emotion, or the task, the higher purpose, what you want to get done. When you focus on the person, things escalate in a way that is not productive. Some of us are going to have to model the way with different leadership styles. [34:31] Marianne is grateful every day to have a colleague like Wendy Smith. One of the reasons their partnership has been so productive is that they are really different. They have all sorts of differences but they found a lot of similarities. They want a better world, they believe in learning and innovation. While they were writing their book, they found themselves in many late-night deep discussions on challenges. [38:37] Marianne’s challenge to listeners: Start paying more attention to the questions you are asking. Are you asking “either/or” questions? Those questions immediately limit your options. Start asking more “both/and” questions, such as, “How do we make this world more sustainable and more productive?” [39:35] Closing quote: Remember, “How wonderful that we have met with a paradox. Now we have some hope of making progress!” — Niels Bohr   Quotable Quotes “We tend to define things by what they’re not. We think in terms of contrast. … You’re either ‘A’ or ‘Not-A.’ So we think in terms of opposites, even if those opposites aren’t actually direct contradictions. … The way we think … influences the way we feel.” — Marianne “We’re wired to have these heuristic shortcuts, these cognitive biases. … What we feel is completely logical but it might not be.” — Jim “People who have a greater paradox mindset, especially when they’re working or living in a world of tensions, … are more productive, more creative, and happier; more satisfied. … They see tensions as opportunities.” — Marianne “We use the analogy of a mule, which is stronger than a horse and smarter than a donkey.” — Marianne “I think about friction in two ways: 1. It can produce drag, or 2. It can produce traction.” — Jan “One way to think about how you hold together your tensions is [to ask] ‘What do you want this to be in the broader world?’” — Marianne “I’m sensing an existential crisis. I see it, whether in academia or business, and that strikes me as a sense of lack of meaning. We need to be pushing harder on ‘What is that boundary?’” — Marianne “For all the rising expectations going on around us and the frustration, the lack of listening and compassion is painful to me.” — Marianne “We wanted to write this book; we did not want this to be a purely business book. These same patterns and tools work at the individual level as a mother, as a friend, and we have seen powerful examples working at the societal level. ” — Marianne “I don’t want you to think what I think but I’d love us to be aligned with what we want in the end goal.” — Marianne   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by:

Dr. Ciela Hartanov runs Humcollective, a boutique strategy and innovation firm that helps companies, executives, and teams make sense of the forces shaping our future and prepare strategically. In this episode, Ciela discusses the shift that will be needed to turn teaching leadership skills into teaching a leadership mindset. She discusses how and why sensitivity (not emotionalism) is needed more than ever at work. Listen in for an impressive view of the future of work and how that will shape our communities.     Key Takeaways [1:57] Ciela has a passion for the human experience inside of work. She believes it is important to put the human at the center of work. Ciela grew up with a father who was very interested in people and she traveled a lot with him. [3:29] The idea of work as a transaction comes from the Industrial Revolution and the assembly line. You work these hours, produce these widgets, and you get paid. Before the Industrial Revolution, you worked for yourself to build a life and had jobs inside the community, such as baker and candlestick maker, to build the community together. [5:37] Society is trying to break the transaction mindset. Because of the pandemic, there has been a reckoning and reconsideration of the employee/employer contract. Everyone’s responsible and we are making agreements together about what that contract is. [6:52] Ciela says we’ve been sold the idea that purpose is an individual pursuit. We are social beings. Ciela has learned through sociology that we are ourselves because we are reflected through other people. An individual’s purpose and meaning are within the context of society. Ciela is working to put us back within the context of our society. We don’t operate as solo individuals. [8:01] Before the pandemic, Ciela was worried that loneliness was an epidemic. People were using work to relieve their loneliness. Employers encouraged employees to be more connected to their organization and to have a “best friend” at work. This idea was disrupted by remote work. Individuals need to have their social needs met outside the organization. It's not enough to just be on your own. [10:05] Ciela doesn’t talk about transformation. She sees what is happening as a renewal of what it means to be alive as a human being. This is a new conversation in society. The Great Resignation is a philosophical conversation about what it means to be a human being and what it means to work. [11:54] Advances are happening that will impact human beings. But the human condition will always be evergreen. We are still discovering things about the human condition. Those things aren’t new, we just didn’t know them yet. The things that are new are technological advances and tools, like AI. [12:42] Ciela is studying Emergence and Emergent theory. It is a fundamental human condition that we don’t like uncertainty. We will be experiencing more and more uncertainty. Ciela helps organizations figure out how to tie the thread between the growing uncertainty and our dislike of it. [15:12] People will learn that adapting to change is an essential skill. Companies can teach their employees how to adapt to new requirements of a job. It is essential to have emotional resilience for the triggers that come with change. When Ciela was at Google, they spent years teaching people how to meditate. Meditation is a tool to regulate emotion inside a complex and challenging environment. [17:15] Humans are naturally curious and interested. We have it as children. The industrial era has stripped that out of us because it’s not efficient. You can’t measure creativity in the same way as productivity. Celia is writing a book. In her book, she talks about moving from the idea of knowledge work to perceptual work. Perceptual work involves perceiving what is happening around us. [19:07] After perceiving comes interpreting. This is a human skill, not a machine skill. When we gain insight, our creative mind sees it and considers the way forward to make a move. In uncertainty, making a move is an experiment. This requires rethinking organizational practices and patterns. There’s not a straight path from Point A to Point B anymore. [21:50] Ciela was on a team at Google that studied the future of leadership. She tells of the insight that led her to organize the study team. She held the position that we need to examine mindsets before we teach leadership skills. It’s like our operating system. If you don’t have the right operating system for the context, you’re never going to be able to demonstrate the right behavior. [25:06] The team developed six mindsets that matter. Ciela shares three of them: 1.) I must know myself and get over myself to be in the service of other people., 2.) Believe that being in uncertain terrain is progress and progress needs tension., 3.) Know that power is responsibility, and take that seriously when you sit in a leadership seat. [27:30] Teaching leadership skills before teaching mindset worked in a time of more certainty. We are in a time of uncertainty that requires a shift, a different way of working with leadership. Now we need to teach mindsets. [28:11] To be an employer of choice, you could offer your employees the ability to gain transferable skills to be able to have a lattice career. Today’s younger employees have more clarity about their values, purpose, and mindset. Ciela would like employers to bolster that and help them gain the skills that are not being taught in school. Organizations have to train skills that are lacking in the talent pool. [29:36] Ciela is writing a book, Reclaiming Sensitivity, due out in 2023. We generally misunderstand what sensitivity is. Sensitivity is the ability to perceive. Let’s reclaim our innate human ability to perceive, both through our emotional attunement and our ability to plan and get curious — the original definition of sensitivity in its widest capacity. One chapter is devoted to making sense of uncertain terrain. [34:36] Jan asks if sensitivity will become the rule in Fortune 500 companies. Ciela replies “Yes, and,” because we haven’t evolved to the new era of work. There is a place for execution, and that’s when you are not in a complex domain. But the level of complexity will start pushing further into the organization and we need to shift our mindset to be ready. We’re not there yet. [38:16] Growing up, Ciela traveled the world with her father. She shares how travel shaped her views on perceiving. Her father taught her to travel like a local. She learned to go inside other peoples’ experiences, versus being on the periphery. Someone in the gig economy must be first understood from an anthropological view before you can have insight and work with them. [41:07] Ciela talks about a study she did at Google about what makes someone able to shift, adjust and be a transformative leader. She found two things: 1.) They were able to find their stable ground — such as a daily workout, and 2.) They were incredibly good at perspective-taking and perceiving. They could transform because they could perceive but also had stable ground from which to move. [42:14] Ciela’s closing thought: Leaders feel tired and burnt out. They “don’t have time for innovation; it’s too hard!” Ciela acknowledges there’s a real tension around the pressures of being a leader right now. Don’t let that blindside you from focusing on what matters, which is paving a path for the future. Open your eyes and start perceiving and thinking about the innovative way out of the uncertainty. [43:43] Closing quote: Remember, “Each person does see the world in a different way. There is not a single, unifying, objective truth. We're all limited by our perspective.” —   Quotable Quotes “Once people came off of the farms and working for themselves to build a life, and moved into the assembly line and the factory, then it was an exchange. You work these hours, you work on this timeline, you produce this number of widgets; … and then you get money.” — Ciela “If you look before the Industrial Revolution, a lot of what we understood about work was also related to community. So, we each had a job inside the community to build the community together.” — Ciela “We had the baker, we had the candlestick maker; we had all the different functions, but the idea inside those functions was that you were building a society and a community together.” — Ciela “We don’t operate as solo individuals. Nothing gets done unless there’s a collective effort and a collective meaning.” — Ciela “Fresh perspectives are required to thrive in an ever-changing context.” — Ciela “We are naturally wired to be curious and interested. We have this innate interest as human beings.” — Ciela “I actually think we need a fundamental restructuring so that that new perspective, that fresh insight, can be part of the strategy process; they can be part of the systems and so that it gets encouraged and then rewarded.” — Ciela “Unless you believe that tension is a good thing and is valuable, you’re never going to be able to work with it.” — Ciela “[Skills] are expiring so quickly and if you want to be an employer of choice you do have to offer the ability for people to gain skills — transferable skills — and be able to shift and to have more of a lattice career versus a ladder career.” — Ciela “It’s not a waste of time to bring people into a sense-making exercise because that is how you make progress. Because progress needs tension. And that is a whole different way of understanding how you interact and deal with a complex domain.” — Ciela “At the center of all of work are human beings and the experience that we are having.” — Ciela   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by: Reclaiming Sensitivity (scheduled to be published in 2023)  

Jim and Jan discuss the latest crucible expeditions to hopefully inspire and uplift you! Jan has led 21 crucible expeditions to date, and through the diversity of executives and military veterans, they keep providing new insights. Participants come by invitation (or application), and are selected for selflessness, an adventurous spirit, and possessing heroic aspirations to make a difference in the lives of others. Jan’s process is to design the experience, select the participants, get them together, and step back to let them learn and grow as a team, as the magic happens. Participants learn they have more in common than they have differences and strong bonds are formed. Listen in to learn how some of these lessons can apply to your organization.     Key Takeaways [2:03] In this episode, Jan and Jim recap some learnings from two recent back-to-back crucible expeditions that Jan completed. A crucible expedition with Jan is a four-day, three-night wilderness expedition with executives who need a digital detox coupled with military veterans who are transitioning to the business world. The veterans are mostly from the Special Operations community. [3:02] Participants go rock-climbing and backpacking in the middle of nowhere. Really great people get together for some great conversations. Jan selects the executives and veterans on three criteria: they are people who are trying to be as selfless as possible for the greater good, are adventurous, and possess heroic aspirations to try and make the world a better place, in things beyond power and money. [3:57] By selecting those criteria, they get a bunch of strangers coming together as a team very quickly. Based on work Jan has done with surveys by PAIRIN, he believes that when people are out there with strangers, unlike with work colleagues, they have nothing to prove, protect, or promote. [4:24] Jim has been on the Patagonia and Moab crucibles and he attests that they are incredible experiences that move you in ways you would never expect. Jan has done 21 crucible expeditions so far. [5:34] Jan has found that his talent lies not in charismatic leadership but in designing the environment and culture for the team, stepping back, staying out of the way, and letting the magic happen. Jan shares his critique of an expedition Jim was on a few years ago. He says he should have stepped away more and guided things and discussions through questions. [7:30] Jan shares a crucible learning for your work. There is one person in charge, and the second person is the accountability partner. If the leader takes a wrong turn, the accountability partner lets them make the mistake and learn from it. We don’t grow and develop without making and correcting mistakes. Let your people at work learn and develop from their mistakes. [10:09] On the crucibles, you’ve got executives that are making the time and space for their improvement. Jan just spoke to someone who loved the outdoor aspect of the crucible and feels like she needs more time off. Jan tells executives to find the sweet spot between sitting on the hill, figuring out what their team needs, and getting with the team, working with them, and coaching them, first-hand. [11:44] Executive coaches work to try to get people to move from being “here,” doing “these things,” to being “there,” doing “those things.” It takes self-discipline, sacrifice, focus, delegation, and trust to get there. That’s where accountability partners come in, plus taking time to reflect. Jan tells about the three-hour solo challenge of silent alone-time, thinking for three hours, and reporting on it later. [13:30] The bedrock of the crucible is that people relate to each other as humans, that they're vulnerable. People are dealing with a lot on the homefront and the things they are struggling with come up in their first meeting. Often it is family stuff. The idea that it’s OK not to be OK comes through. At work, senior leaders have to be strong and act in a certain way to get performance from other people. [14:49] On a crucible, people let their guard down. They might cry around the campfire or climbing a mountain, even though they never cry. In some ways, their crying and vulnerability bring the team together. It’s a gift to show your real emotions. It’s not a gift stoic people share at work. And everybody on the crucible is equal. [16:25] Jim summarizes that vulnerability is the resounding theme of a crucible. You are put in a situation where you are physically vulnerable. In the evening discussions, people became more mentally and emotionally vulnerable. Jan believes that whiskey helps. He has seen it. Jim is still close to people from both of his crucible trips in a different way than his golfing buddies. [18:09] When you go out there as a business executive, having little to no experience with veterans, or the elite operators who go on these expeditions, you might think you have nothing in common with them. You come away with respect that goes both ways. You see the military in a different light. The folks in the military now see civilians in a different light. [18:56] Only one percent of the population in America has anything to do with the military. It has become a family business. Most of those families are from the South. The military is very insular. You’re around people that think, act, and talk like you. Your world is filled with military acronyms. The military spends money. You’re not in the generate revenue, create demand business. [20:03] A lot of the leadership and people challenges are very similar between the military and business. In the past two years, twice, a special operations commando who has carried a flag under his body armor on multiple missions decided to give that flag to executive participants from the crucible — they were flags that could have draped a body if the operator had not survived a mission. [21:37] A crucible changes people’s lives. After the Patagonia crucible, Jim took a fork in the road that he might not have taken before the crucible. Jim says when you spend the time and get to know other people, you’re much more similar than you think. That kind of experience is something to keep in mind when you look at our divisive society. Take the time to listen to people and gain their perspectives. [22:51] On one trip, sitting around the fire at the end, a leader said it was interesting that “none of us talked about politics or religion. I’m guessing, politically, we go from left to right and in-between. Look how great we got along. This is what Americans should be about.” It was a powerful moment. Each participant was only in the category of human with heroic aspirations beyond power and money. [24:24] The crucible cannot scale. It cannot be done with big groups in wilderness areas and some people couldn’t or wouldn’t do it. So, Jan is writing a book about it with a co-author who is a past crucible participant and military veteran. [25:01] There was little diversity in the first expeditions. Jan credits Sheryl Tullis with helping him make the teams intentionally diverse and representative of the workforce. Jan believes that the men bring out the best in the women participants and vice versa. Jan marvels at the self-confidence of some of the recent diverse participants. They know who they are and what they bring to the table. [27:52] One reason a recent expedition was so good was that there was diversity of age, gender, geography, and company size. The veterans were thoughtful, deliberate, cerebral people, deeply curious about the business world they were going into. These trips are about what happens in the one-on-one discussions as you’re walking down the trail, and in the evening discussions around the fire.  [29:35] U.S. Navy SEAL Master Chief Stephen Drum has been on the podcast. He is writing a book and Jim is reading the preliminary manuscript for him. Stephen writes that when SEALS wash out, it is never about physical fitness. It’s always about lacking strength of character, conviction, or values. Some of the strongest people on a crucible are strongest in character. [31:17] Jan mentions Don Yaeger, a Sports Illustrated writer and author of many books about great athletes. Don says all great athletes hate to lose more than they like to win. The reason Jan became a Green Beret is that he did not quit. He was 18 years old. More than he wanted to win, he did not want to fail. [32:32] In the business world, at some point things are going to be hard. There’s always something nagging at you that says, “Quit.” If what you are doing is aligned with your values, then you won’t quit. If it’s not aligned with your values, it doesn’t serve you. [33:33] Steve Drotter, a previous guest of the podcast with old-school values, said, “A career is made from having hard jobs that suck and bosses that beat you up. That makes a career!” Today, it seems the job caters to the employee. There is a supply-and-demand issue. The workplace is not as tough as it used to be. [34:50] Jan is hearing from the Army and the Marines that young people entering the services have no outdoor experience; no woodcraft or fieldcraft. Jan wonders what’s happening in the business world where people come in without knowing certain things! Jim observes that their writing is atrocious. But now we don’t write long business reports, we write Powerpoints. Expectations have changed. [36:54] Job conditions wax and wane, and we may go back to a more tough work environment in a few years, where employers have the upper hand, instead of the employees. These are the leadership challenges we have. [37:38] Jan’s last words: The crucibles are a passion and a privilege. The only way you’re going to change your narrative is to step out of your comfort zone. Whether you go on a crucible or do something else, Jan and Jim encourage you to think about the things where you find purpose and meaning, where you can make a contribution to the greater good, and be bold and make things happen. [39:14] Closing quote: “Twice and thrice over, as they say, good is it to repeat and review what is good.” — Plato.   Quotable Quotes “We select the executives and the veterans based on three criteria: We’re looking for people that are trying to be as selfless as possible, … We look for people that are adventurous, … and … people who possess heroic aspirations, trying to make the world a better place.” — Jan “Most of the time I come back from a trip and I beat myself up. … I evaluate my own leadership, and participation performance, and think, ‘Woulda, coulda, shoulda.’ I do think one thing I’ve gotten better at is doing less.” — Jan “What I have found, at least for me, is my talent isn’t necessarily at being the charismatic leader; it’s really being a pretty darn good designer. By that I mean if I design the environment, the culture, for the team, and I step back and stay out of the way, magic happens.” — Jan “I will say, even at my advanced age, I’m still a work in progress.” — Jan “The lesson won’t be learned the same if you go, ‘Wait, wait, I can fix this!’. I talked to somebody today that said, ‘I do way too many Powerpoints. I should be delegating those and I do way too many because it’s just easier and faster for me to do it.’” — Jan “Delegation is usually at the top three of things that people can work on to improve. … People never have the time to delegate. They never have the time and space to do it right or to think they even have the opportunity to do it. And it just is a self-fulfilling prophecy.” — Jim “What we’re very intentional about, and what always ends up being the big takeaway, is you’ve got to slow down to speed up. Especially for executives, you’ve got to figure out the sweet spot between going and sitting on the hill and figuring things out” — Jan “One of the things that we try to do on every crucible is give people three hours. We call it the solo challenge. In some ways, it’s the hardest thing people do is go be by themselves, doing nothing for three hours except thinking.” — Jan “Out there, people just let their guard down. People sometimes will cry around the campfire. Sometimes they’ll cry going up the mountain and they’ll say, ‘I never cry. I — never — cry.’ Did anybody care that you cried? No. … Crying and vulnerability brought the team together.” — Jan “You can really build some warm and strong relationships with people you might think are so different from you that you could never, ever have anything in common with them.” — Jim   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by:  

Joe McCormack is the author of “BRIEF: Make a Bigger Impact by Saying Less,” and “Noise: Living and Leading When Nobody Can Focus.” He founded the Brief Lab in 2013 after years dedicated to developing and delivering a unique curriculum for US Army Special Operations. He actively counsels military leaders and senior executives on effective, efficient communication, and produces the podcast, “Just Saying.” In this conversation, he shares the keys to thinking clearly to get to the root cause of a problem and explain the way forward, simply, concisely, and effectively.     Key Takeaways [2:45] Joe is the sixth of nine children in his Irish Catholic family. His early career includes a period of aerospace marketing in the aviation field before he started a marketing agency. [4:28] Joe’s executive message about communication is “Less is more.” You don’t need to say much but what you say needs to count. Leaders tend to overwhelm people with information. Be more careful and calculating to be concise. You want to say more but people can’t hear it. [6:16] Joe explains why people say too much; a lack of time to prepare, the fear of not giving enough information, the fear of looking stupid, and the fear of failing to handle every contingency. It’s never just one of these things; it’s all of them. [6:45] People need to consider, “What does my audience need?” They don’t need six paragraphs. They’re craving brevity. They want two. Give the audience what they want: two well-written paragraphs. More paragraphs will dilute the message and diminish your impact. [7:54] When Joe wrote Brief he considered what was the most essential thing to say in the shortest time given. But don’t be too brief. Say what is necessary. When you learn the skills, you can use brevity consistently. There’s a payoff for people that have the skillset. [10:30] Joe asks people three questions about executive summaries: “Have you ever heard the term ‘executive summary’?” “Have you ever had a developer deliver one?” “Has anybody ever taught you how to build one?” People’s answers are normally, Yes, Yes, and No. If they say Yes to the third, Joe asks them how to build one. They don’t get it right. [11:33] Three questions to answer that will make a great executive summary: “What are you talking about?” “Why are we talking about this right now?” “So what now; what next?” [13:26] Joe teaches people the habit of briefly summarizing their message. It’s different than just knowing it. It’s a habitual way of thinking, speaking, and stopping from talking. [15:09] Fortune 500 corporations and Special Operations are alike in some ways. They both have high standards and expectations and they need to deliver, either for ROI or mission success. In the military, there is a lot of training. Corporations are starting to adopt more training. Since COVID-19 businesses are looking to attract talent. Communication and collaboration are how businesses work. [16:59] Collaboration works in moderation. Microsoft came out with a recent study that shows what people want most from their workplace is autonomy. They want to be left alone to think, and then when they collaborate, it’s better. If you don’t give people time to think about a problem, they come up with an answer on the fly. Deep problems don’t get solved on the fly, but only after thinking and then talking. [22:18] When planning a meeting, take 10 minutes of quiet. Then sit down and create an agenda of what you want to talk about; think about it, write it, and edit it. Then send it and follow it. It works. [23:09] There’s a time for collaboration, talking, and doing, and there’s a time for thinking. You have to figure out in your role, and what that time allotment is. Once you get that, you’re not doing too much or too little, you’re doing your job. Joe heard of a CEO who said, “I don’t think at work; I’m in meetings all the time.” The CEO needs time to think at work. [25:34] As leaders, you need to make a quiet appointment with yourselves for a set amount of time every day. During the appointment, write down things that you need to be thinking about; “How do I get feedback from my employees?” or “What’s wrong with my current work situation?” Make the appointment and don’t miss it. [28:42] Joe’s 15-minute podcast, Just Saying, comes from the classes he teaches to Special Operations teams about concise communications that are effective. [30:15] Joe’s book, Noise, is about the correlation between clear thinking and lowering noise levels. If you don’t manage the noise, your thoughts are scattered. If your thoughts are scattered, your speech is scattered. Ineffective leaders are scattered because they haven’t thought about what they are doing and why they are doing it. They start by talking. Clear thinking leads to concise communication. [31:56] When addressing a problem, ask yourself how much you think about it and how well you think about it. Do you dedicate enough time to thinking about your business? Are you constantly getting distracted in your thinking time? If you do 20 minutes of quiet every day, your thinking will be better. You won’t excel at it at first, but make it a daily habit and you will get better at it and get focused. [34:49] Tips from Brief: You need Awareness: It’s important to be clear and concise. Discipline: Talk and stop talking when needed. Decisiveness: Know when to act and then act. Jim calls these traits a virtuous circle and compares them to the skills of a running back in a football game. [39:37] People have different ways of thinking. Some people need to think about stuff more and some people are quick to answer. There are strengths and weaknesses to both types of people. Make sure the people around you know your processing style. [41:15] Joe shares a success story. A client was able to frame and reframe what he was doing, why he was doing it, what the value was to the organization, how he was doing it, and how he was measuring the impact in a presentation to the board. They didn’t cut a dime from his budget. If you can’t state your work in those clear terms, people will default to thinking it’s not that important, and you will get cut. [44:05] Joe tells of a military client. The skill of being clear, concise, easy to understand, and easy to follow is valuable. In the middle of a briefing, a general asked Joe’s client, who was presenting, “Where did you learn to brief like that?” If everyone else is terrible at it and you’re good at it, all of a sudden, you’re the tallest person in the room. It takes time to prepare for that. [46:21] When Joe presents to a group he focuses on the audience and how they are alike. The common denominator is they all want the shorter version! They may want to know more but they all crave a clear and concise answer. He provides a clear and concise answer. If they want more, he provides a clear and longer answer. Then, if they want more, he provides the clearest and longest explanation. [48:06] Jan and Jim spend a lot of time helping people to focus. A previous guest of the podcast, Brian Caulfield told them “Sell the problem, not the solution.” No one has time and everyone is selling a solution. Joe’s Brief method is a recipe for managing time and figuring out the root cause of a problem. [49:25] Joe’s challenge: Take time and quiet to think about it. Schedule it. Use quiet to your advantage, however much you need. Then talk. Think before you speak. And then do something. Those are separate things. You think about it quietly. You lower the noise. You start to get a root cause. Then you can say the most important thing (not the things). Then watch people say, “I got it! Now I know what to do.” [52:13] Closing quote: “Brevity is the soul of wit.” — William Shakespeare.   Quotable Quotes “To be an elite communicator is to embrace a different standard, which is ‘Less is more. I don't need to say so much but what I say needs to count.’” “It’s hard because you want to say more but people can’t hear it.” “There’s a famous quote, which is, ‘I would have written you a shorter letter if I had more time.” “I wrote a 220-page book on brevity. That almost made me insane. Because you start to think about, what really is the most essential thing to say in the shortest amount of time given? That really takes some thought.” “If you’re pitching an investor, that investor has this aperture or window of interest and what you say needs to sit inside that window. And that takes a lot of consideration. What does that person care about? What’s the most important thing? Why am I doing this?” “What I teach people is the habit of doing [a summary]. It’s different from just knowing it.” “There’s quality collaboration and then there’s terrible collaboration. [In a meeting] the collaboration is poor. They talk at each other, they don’t prepare, it’s disorganized, it’s scattered, and people don’t listen.” “You ask people when do you prepare for meetings and how do you prepare for meetings and often the answer is, ‘I can’t because I’m in a meeting. I’m constantly collaborating, leaving me no time to prepare for the next meeting.’” “If you don’t give people a chance to think about it, they’re coming up with the answer on the fly. Deep problems don’t get solved on the fly. They get solved when you actually have to slow down and think about it. And then you say something.” “Great leaders have the humility to say ‘I’m going to think about it. I’m going to have others think about it. I’m going to come up with a solution and then I’m going to explain it in the simplest terms possible and hope it works!’”   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by:  

Dr. Zoe Chance is a professor at the Yale School of Management, and is the author of Influence Is Your Superpower: The Science of Winning Hearts, Sparking Change, and Making Good Things Happen. Her framework for behavior change is the foundation for Google’s global food policy. In this conversation, Zoe describes forms of influence and discusses how good relationships lead to good work. She challenges the people to use influence for the greater good, not just for individual purposes.     Key Takeaways [2:11] Zoe, a sci-fi fan, named her daughter Ripley after Ellen Ripley from Aliens. [5:16] Almost all of us, even the most successful, have negative feelings about influence strategies or tactics, but almost all of us would also like to be more influential. Influence has a bad rap. We think of it as distasteful. With new science, Zoe is bringing back the idea of influence as a leadership trait. [7:06] People have different definitions of influence and manipulation. Zoe considers influence to be anything that shifts someone’s thinking or behavior, including manipulation, persuasion, behavioral economics, coercion, military might, and incentives. Manipulation is someone trying to influence a person in an underhanded way with a motive that does not align with the well-being of the person. [8:13] Behavioral economics nudges are mostly imperceptible, but would not be upsetting to people being influenced for their best interest, such as attempts to get people to save more for retirement. [9:48] Over the past year, up to the rise of bad inflation, employees have had a lot of power, and companies were desperate to hire. There’s been a crisis in the service industry. Now the power is shifting to employers. They want people to be there but, for the most part, they don’t have good reasons for wanting people to be there. Humu’s Laszlo Bock asks, “Why, to look over their shoulder?” [11:51] Jan, Zoe, and Jim discuss whether most companies need to have their employees in the office, and how the return to the office is being handled. [13:51] Jim finds that in-person meetings are much more effective than online meetings that are filled with side-text meetings within the meeting. Jim also observes the need to train new college graduates in the culture of the organization. A culture needs to be maintained and groomed like a garden and that happens better in person. [15:31] Zoe would like to see leaders be better able to create the culture that they want. Bringing people back to the office to experience a negative culture is a horrible plan. [17:19] Jim contrasts the freedom of travel and the restrictions of the cube farm he experienced early in his career. He didn’t like working in a cube and it affected his career. Now, since the pandemic, everyone has enjoyed freedom, and once freedom has been enjoyed it’s hard for it to be taken away. Zoe says taking freedoms and privileges away will cause a rebellion; she shares an example from a bank. [20:26] Zoe shares a story featuring the Magic Question “What would it take for that to never happen again?”, and how to use it. It acknowledges that the people you are trying to influence know much more about their life than you do. It’s not perceived as pressure to follow your advice and it can lead to a commitment to the positive outcome you want. [26:05] Zoe gives a shoutout to the veterans who come through the Yale School of Management. The professors love to have veterans in their classes because they are good listeners, and pay attention to the professors, their colleagues, and their classmates. They amplify other people’s ideas and ask follow-up questions; they only speak when they feel they have something important to share. [28:16] Zoe tells about her TEDx talk, “How to Make a Behavior Addictive.” She tells how a pedometer injured her body, her marriage, and her relationships. She is vulnerable to technology. Social media is addictive because it’s designed carefully to keep your attention. There is evidence that social media does much more harm than good. Zoe has studied the psychology that makes people want to come back. [31:28] Zoe explains the manipulative and negative power of variable intermittent rewards. If someone is using variable intermittent rewards to manipulate you, it’s an unhealthy relationship. Social media does that to us constantly. [35:38] Zoe shares advice for leaders on having difficult conversations involving challenging feedback. Have these conversations as soon as you realize that there’s something amiss, ideally, that day. If you are giving criticism, the longer you wait, the more betrayed the person feels because you’ve been harboring resentment against them. Having the practice of bringing it up as soon as you can is life-changing. [39:35] How can you have more power within your organization? Internalize the idea that good work comes from good relationships. Reach out to get to know challenging people in other departments and ask questions. “How is this going for you? It’s kind of been a struggle for me and I’d like to understand your perspective.” It’s hard for people not to like you when you reach out and connect with them. [41:42] Research shows men’s social and professional networks overlap a lot while women’s social and professional networks do not. If you are a woman, Zoe advises you to reach out to women and men at work, especially if you’re not already friends with lots of people at work. You will find a friendly rapport and reciprocity that leads to things happening more easily. Men usually have better networks. [43:41] As Zoe was writing Influence Is Your Superpower, she asked a group of people about negotiations. Only 40% of men and 17% of women said they like or love negotiating. When she asked another group to describe their most recent negotiation, their adjectives were overwhelmingly positive. About 80% of them had had a good result and felt empowered! [47:54] Zoe discusses power in an organization. Influence works the same in leadership and relationships. The idea that a leader should never apologize because apologizing gives up power is wrong to Zoe. You build a lot of social capital by apologizing at the right time, in the right way, and by taking responsibility. That’s powerful! [49:44] Zoe provides an anecdote that listeners can copy about a leader raising his status by sharing the spotlight. Jess Cain VP of Customer Service at Eversource has a 96% employee engagement rating by sharing a short weekly voicemail including a spotlight on two different team members. She has 1,500 members on her team. Jan notes also that people support what they help create. [53:27] Zoe’s challenge to listeners: Challenge the frame of consumerism. Thinking of ourselves as consumers has caused the climate crisis. Think about using your influence in the grand scheme and not just for your benefit. Be a role model. Zoe is donating half the profits from her book to 350.org. [56:00] Closing quote: “Think twice before you speak because your words and influence will plant the seed of either success or failure in the mind of another.” — Napoleon Hill.   Quotable Quotes “Almost all of us, … have mixed feelings about influence. … If I ask people …  what are three adjectives that come to mind when you think of influence tactics, [it's] yucky, greedy, manipulative. … When I ask … ‘Would you like to be more influential?”, all of them say, yes.” “Employees have been more productive at home than they have been at work, … but it hasn’t changed the fact that employers want employees to come back.” “Employers that offer more flexibility are going to do much better in the long run, because they’ll be able to recruit the best talent.” “As most academics do, we collaborate with people that we never see and that’s partly because we’re introverted and so we’re kind of happy to be in our little cave. But there’s no problem with collaborating with people that you don’t see.” “If you want to onboard new people and help them make friends; to have informal conversations and collaborations, OK, that’s great. We just don’t need to all be at the office every single day, or even every single week, right?” “Plenty of surveys have shown that leaders are actually out of touch about the real culture of their company. … the actual reality is kind of a crappy culture. It’s horrible to bring people back to the office to experience the crappy culture.” “Bringing people back to the office or allowing people to work remotely has a differential impact on women and people of color and various groups. So there’s more equality when we have more flexibility. That’s another reason I’m generally in favor of giving people flexibility.” “Every freedom, every privilege, should be so carefully and thoughtfully doled out with the expectation that what you’re giving an employee is going to be in perpetuity, or there’s going to be a rebellion.” “When she’s asking this {Magic Question], she’s respectfully acknowledging ‘Listen, you know all kinds of things that I don’t know,” which is always the case with the people we’re trying to influence. They know all kinds of things about their life that we don’t.” “The most addictive piece [of social media] … is called ‘variable intermittent rewards.’” “We also often don’t really realize what our expectations are until they get violated.” “Just internalize the idea that good work comes from good relationships.” “There is a ‘liking’ gap of 12%, where people like you 12% more than you think that they do. And this very much includes people who you have some bit of conflict or strife with.” “The majority … have this idea of negotiations that … comes from the movies. … We don’t directly observe many negotiations and we’re just not realizing that in our lives, most of the time when we’re negotiating, it goes pretty well. … Negotiation is not as bad as we think."   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by:  

Donato J. Tramuto is an American healthcare executive, global health activist, author and former CEO of Tivity Health. Donato’s first book was released in 2016, “Life’s Bulldozer Moments: How Adversity Can Lead to Success in Life and Business.” His latest book, “The Double Bottom Line,” is an Amazon Best Seller. Donato is a recipient of the prestigious RFK Ripple of Hope and the RFK Embracing His Legacy Award, for his endless dedication to improving the lives of others. In this episode, Donato discusses the nuances of hardship, developing compassion, being yourself, understanding your associates, and using tenderness to establish trust before relying on tenacity.        Key Takeaways [2:20] Donato lost most of his hearing at age eight, for ten years, and had a severe speech impediment until he was 17. The loss of his hearing created in him an enormous sense of compassion for people. [4:14] For his latest book, The Double Bottom Line, Donato, and his team interviewed 41 world leaders and surveyed 1,500 employees across the country. Their research revealed that compassionate leaders need to do more than understand others’ pain. They need empathy in action to impact others.[6:24] The Double Bottom Line is not just a business book. Donato shares a life experience. In the book, he tells the reader, “Listen to understand, don’t listen to react.” Donato suggests that if we practice compassionate leadership in our daily lives, we’ll take it into our business lives. [8:04] Jan recalls recent guest Michael Bungay Stanier speaking about being compassionate, generous, and kind every day. Jan stresses the difference between being compassionate and being nice. Donato says, “If you want to be liked in a company, you’re probably better to go out and get 100 golden retrievers! Compassionate leadership is not just about being nice.” [9:38] Donato advocates three Ts: approach your organization with Tenderness first, to get the Trust. Then you can use Tenacity. When making tough decisions, don’t start with tenacity. You gain trust by taking the time to understand each person in your organization. [10:42] As the CEO of Healthways (Tivity), Donato avoided the CEO elevator to ride the regular elevator. He shares an event that unfolded from him asking an employee in the elevator how his day was going. Donato would not have known the employee needed help had he not asked the question. Ask questions to get answers beyond, “I’m OK.” [11:52] Form deep relationships with your associates. Generation Z and Millennials will form 60‒65% of the workforce and they require compassionate leadership or they will leave. People are reflecting on their lives in ways we have never seen in our lifetime. [13:07] In Donato’s last year as CEO of Tivity Health, he took a hard line with an executive in front of nine other executives just before a flight. He felt miserable about it. When his plane landed, he got off and called the executive to apologize to her. Because of that apology, their relationship blossomed. With compassionate leadership, you feel better, you don’t take problems home, and you gain credibility! [15:42] Jim quotes Dale Carnegie, who said, “Be interested, not interesting.” [16:36] Donato is thrilled to announce that the Boston University School of Public Health is going to convert The Double Bottom Line: How Compassionate Leaders Captivate Hearts and Deliver Results, into a curriculum to teach compassion. Many of the leaders Donato interviewed were not born with compassion. They learned it through someone in their family or a teacher. The book is a resource. [17:26] There is an opportunity to train our current and future leaders on how to lead from the heart. Donato’s book has assignments at the end of each chapter to help individuals understand the key nuggets of using compassion. Donato’s commitment for the next 20 years is to expand this movement beyond the book and to help leaders see the key ingredients to being compassionate. [20:22] Millennials and Generation Z are demanding a totally different approach to the work environment. Leaders will have to step up and embrace that change or they will be losing significant talent; they won’t be as competitive or as effective. The success of The Double Bottom Line is a validation of compassionate leadership. Institutions are asking Donato for training. The time is right. [22:51] Donato proposes a Chief Compassionate Leader Officer for the C-Suite. Boards have got to be willing to ask these questions about culture and trust, to validate that the organization is moving in this direction, as opposed to always looking at a spreadsheet. [25:36] What is the right amount of empathy, vs. making hard decisions? Empathy overload means getting too deep into the situation, clouding your ability to make hard decisions. [27:06] When you ask to understand and have gotten to the issue, then you need to come to an agreement and consensus with “and,” not “but.” “I understand your issues, and how do we work together to make sure that your needs are met and the needs of the organization are met?” When Donato has taken that approach, they always got to an end result that worked for both parties. [30:24] Establishing trust comes before results. Donato asks permission to help. Once he had a board member, who was not behaving well, refuse to receive some constructive insight. She said, “No. You’re not my coach.” Trust was not established. The board member did not have a favorable outcome; she was later asked to leave the board. Ask for permission to provide constructive insight and most will agree. [32:40] When is it appropriate to address spirituality in the workplace? Donato believes our connection to a spiritual force influences how we behave. If you are a spiritual person, it’s not something to be embarrassed by. The world is increasingly secular. People who do not focus on spirituality may otherwise have positive values that guide their behavior for good. Be who you are. [34:40] Until 2014, when he received the RFK recognitions, Donato had not shared with anyone that he was gay and had a partner. In front of 2,000 people, 500 of whom were his employees, he thanked his loving partner of 23 years. The audience stood to applaud. The more you are who you are, the more you develop an understanding in the workforce that you’re like the other person in many ways. [37:07] Do people look favorably upon expressions of faith? If you emphasize too much one facet of who you are, then you make it an issue. Donato shares many facets of himself in case someone has one of those facets in common with him. [41:20] Start to look at what you and your associates have in common. You will begin to realize that there is very little that is different about you. Take the time to understand the other person. [43:20] Age discrimination is real. The average CEO is 59 years old. They hire their executive team from the same age group. Until we are willing to diversify the executive team, we will not integrate the values of the different generations to build an incredible team. Donato has just hired a terrific 23-year-old manager and he has learned a lot from her. Ten years ago, he would not have hired one of her age. [46:55] The organization’s values should not be decided only by the executive team. Donato tells of changing a company’s 10 hard-to-remember values established by executive leadership into five carefully organized and prioritized values developed with the participation of the associates. [47:34] Don’t choose when to be compassionate. Show compassion to everyone. Be compassionate all the time, just as a pilot flies a plane in a safe manner all the time. [48:35] Donato’s challenge to listeners: There are many issues affecting us today. Start every single day by asking a friend or family member, “Tell me what you’re experiencing today.” After you’ve listened and you’ve heard them, do something! Kindness and compassion are the new currency of the century. [50:40] Closing quote: “Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly.” — Robert F. Kennedy.   Quotable Quotes “The fluency you’re hearing today was not there when I was 17. … I share that with you because I think that part of leadership is being … comfortable with your story. Too many people … don’t really understand the steps that led to the successful position you might have.” “You rent your title; you own your dignity.” “If you want to be a compassionate leader, you must have empathy in action to have impact.” “Listen to understand. Understand what the other person might be going through.” “Everyone that you meet most likely is having a more difficult time than you.” “You want deep relationships with your associates. And by the way, we are now faced with five generations in the workforce. Generation Z and the Millennials will soon dominate — 60‒65% of the workforce. If you’re not changing as a leader, guess what, you’re going to be losing out.” “Part of compassionate leadership is doing some self-reflection. You’re not always going to be right and when you are wrong and you admit to it you will gain an enormous amount of credibility.” “My favorite philosopher Yogi Berra once said, ‘You don’t want to make the wrong mistake.’” “With five generations now in the workforce, and Millennials and the Gen Z-ers demanding a totally different approach to the work environment, I think that we’re going to have to step up and begin to embrace that change or we’re going to be losing some significant talent.” “A significant portion of [the Great Resignation] is related to feeling good, and passionate, and putting a soul in your company. … If the leaders of today cannot embrace that, they’re going to be gone.” “We have to be willing to understand that it’s not one facet that attracts people to you, it’s the entire person who you are, and the more willing you are to share those multiple facets, you begin to develop relationships in different venues.” “You have got to have the [company] values developed by everyone in the organization, otherwise, they are not going to stick. And that’s what we did. We brought the 10 values down to five. And … we did prioritize them.” “You show compassion to everyone and you’re compassionate all the time! You don’t pick and choose when you’re compassionate. It's like asking the pilot ‘When do you fly the plane in a safe manner?’ You always fly the plane in a safe manner!”   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by:

Michael Bungay Stanier has written books that have sold about a million copies all told, including The Coaching Habit. He founded a training and development company, Box of Crayons, that has taught coaching skills to hundreds of thousands of people around the world. Listen in to see why Michael has been named the #1 Thought Leader in Coaching; and why his work has resonated with thousands…     Key Takeaways [2:00] Jan and Jim met Michael Bungay Stanier through Bobby Herrera, the author of The Gift of Struggle. Michael is the author of the most successful book on coaching of this century, The Coaching Habit. Michael’s latest book is How to Begin. [3:06] Little-known facts about Michael: he was banned from his high school graduation for a balloon prank, he was sued by one of his law school professors for defamation, and his first professional writing was The Male Delivery, a romance short story.[6:07] Michael recently wrote on LinkedIn about his mother’s 50-year-old garden. It has a series of microclimates: a vegetable garden, a fern garden, a wisteria garden, and a Wollemi pine. Each area is looked after differently. He compares caring for a garden to caring for the microcultures in an organization’s culture. [6:18] As a leader you see that things need to change. You’re constantly looking to evolve and grow your organization or strategy. The way you think about engaging all the other people is how change happens in an organization. [8:36] In Australia, some trees need to be burned before they will germinate. Sometimes you need to burn some stuff down to allow the culture to germinate, refresh, and regrow. [10:01] Jan quotes a military mantra, “Selection’s an ongoing process. Just because you got to come here and be in this organization doesn’t mean you get to stay.” Michael notes that our natural wiring is to add. One of the most powerful things to do to drive change is to remove. Michael tells of a study involving adding or removing Lego blocks to make the desired shape. Most people added blocks. [11:05] Most people, when thinking of change in an organization, ask what they need to add. Instead, they would get better changes by asking what 20% of what is happening, what practices, structures, systems, culture,  or people, they need to remove! Michael learned of the study by reading Subtract: The Untapped Science of Less, by Leidy Klotz. [12:15] We are also wired to give advice, even when it’s better to ask a question. Michael counsels leaders to stay curious a little bit longer and move to action and advice-giving a little bit more slowly. Michael explains where we go wrong with giving advice. [14:29] One resistance to having coaching be part of your culture is asking who has time for it. Michael says if you can’t coach somebody in 10 minutes or less, you do not have time to coach them. Being curious does not take a vast amount of time. Michael defines coaching as being curious just a little bit longer. Being curious allows you to figure out what the real challenge is. [15:28] In most organizations, people are working very hard to solve not the real challenge, but the first challenge. Because we get seduced into thinking that the first challenge is the thing we need to solve. If you build a reputation as the person who always seems to figure out what the real challenge is, you build a reputation as a strategic player. [16:00] Strategy is knowing what the real thing is and being bold enough to go and try to fix that. Organizations are filled with people who are good at coming up with fast, not very good ideas. If you’re just one of them, you’re not as valuable to your organization. If you’re always the person who asks, “What’s the real challenge we’re trying to solve here?” you become invaluable. Get the diagnosis right. [16:33] Michael just had a free webinar that asked “What’s the one question that unlocks everything?” The question is, “If I’m going to say ‘yes’ to this, what must I say ‘no’ to?” He quotes Michael Porter, who said, “Strategy is choice. It’s having the courage to make the choice.” Most of us are afraid of making the choice. [17:21] There are three levels of things you have to say “no” to 1.) Tasks. What are the tasks I need to stop doing? 2.) People. To whom do I need to say no? Whom do I need to disappoint? 3.) The old version of who you are, so you can say yes to the new version of who you are. [19:38] The book, How to Begin, asks if you understand the prizes and punishments of staying committed to the status quo. People often don’t understand how much they get from the way things are right now, even though they’re overwhelmed. You need to know what you value and hold dear. There is a tension between the work that has impact and work that has meaning. [21:28] You have to ask what has to be done in this organization for this thing to be a success. What is the work you do that unlocks the best of who you are and has the maximal impact within your organization? [23:15] What does it mean to set a worthy goal? How do you set the goals that matter to you? How do you set a goal that claims ambition for yourself and the world? Michael suggests there are three key elements 1.) Is it thrilling? Does it light you up? 2.) Is it important? 3.) Have you picked a worthy goal that is daunting to you? Will it take you to the edge of your sense of self? [25:14] If you have a goal that is thrilling, important, but not daunting, you have plateaued; you are no longer learning. Michael is now an old dog but he still wants to learn new tricks! Neuroplasticity is how you keep your brain alive and push yourself to the edge. [26:44] Specific, Measurable, Achievable, Relevant, and Time-bound (SMART) goals are goals of things for management to track. Leadership goals are harder to measure and track. [30:12] When Michael’s father was dying, Michael shared with his father a book chapter he had just written about him, referring to Rilke’s poem “The Man Watching,” about Jacob wrestling with the angel. Michael saw his father as Jacob, a very good man wrestling something greater than himself and becoming the best of who he was. [33:37] Michael is writing a book and he is finding a lot of resistance in the writing. He feels he is losing a wrestle with an angel and feels the angel’s thumbs pushing him down. He asks himself what is his worthy goal. Right now, it’s to be with his mother in Australia, to help her with her grief and mourning, and to let go of his need to write his book or anything else. [36:05] Humility and confidence go hand-in-hand, as Michael explains. [37:48] Coaches must consider for whose sake they are talking. Is it helping the client or the coach? Is it for the coach to figure something out or is it for the client to figure something out? Is the coach’s talking the best way to serve the client or is it giving the coach status, authority, gravitas, and added value? [39:09] When should coaches talk? Michael says the more he’s been around, the more he says the best thing to do is allow the person to figure their stuff out so that they’re creating new neural pathways and gaining competence, confidence, self-sufficiency, and autonomy. That’s the better way to coach. [40:00] Are you asking questions in service of the client or in service of the problem? Michael says to test it out. Ask the person you are talking to, “Does this feel helpful? What feels useful here in all of this, if anything?” The client will know the answers to those questions better than you will. Figure it out between the two of you. Coaching is a relationship. Stop trying to figure it out all in your head. [42:41] Michael’s closing thoughts: “If you can stay curious and you can stay kind and you can be generous, that just takes you a long way down the path of being a good human being. Curiosity, kindness, and generosity are a really powerful triumvirate.” [48:19] Closing quote: “Coaching’s not a job, it’s a privilege.” — Lee Corso.   Quotable Quotes “Any dominant culture actually has subcultures and microclimates. And you’re not just trying to build a culture, you’re [asking], ‘How do I build these microclimates that are all contributors, culture-adds, to the overall culture of my organization?’” “If you’re a leader, one of the mantras you have is ‘Stuff needs to change around here.’ You’re constantly looking to evolve and grow your organization or your strategy in some way. … The way you think about engaging all the other people is how change happens in an organization.” “I’m trying to get people in organizations … to stay curious a little bit longer and rush to action and advice-giving a little bit more slowly because most of us are advice-giving maniacs.” “There is a place for advice-giving. There is absolutely a place for advice-giving! It’s an act of civilization to trade information. What kills us is when we have leaping to advice as our default response.” “When you work in an organization, you’ve got a tension always between work that has impact and the work that has meaning. If you can be really clear on the stuff that matters to you, … then you also have to ask, ‘What needs to be done in this organization for this to be a success?’” “If you’re not working on the right thing, it doesn’t matter if your goal is specific, measurable, attainable, timely, or whatever else. It’s like you’re not working on the thing that’s going to have the most impact and bring out the best of who you are.” “With a worthy goal, you can do work on one or two worthy goals, not more than that.” “I’m trying to write a book at the moment, and I wrote my words today, but, man, I am finding resistance to this book; the dark force in this book is stronger than usual! … I know how to write a book, but this book, I went, ‘What?! This is really hard!’” “I want people to say, ‘Look, I know where I’m good, and I also know where I’m not good and I don’t need to be grandiose about either of those things. That’s what I’m working with. That’s the reality that I’m playing with.’ That, to me, has that kind of confidence and humility.” “The longer I’ve been around, the more I see that my answers aren’t as good as I think they are. And the more I’ve been around, the more I say the best thing to do is allow that person to figure their stuff out so that they’re creating new neural pathways.”   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by:  

David Smith is a wicked problem-solver, collaborative business leader, technologist, and innovative futurist. He has held executive roles in R&D, government, commercial, and academic organizations. David has been named one of the top seven global futurists in the Millennium issue of Business Week. In this conversation, David shares several concepts to help leaders keep up with the present and prepare for the future. He describes wicked problems, and how to bring a team together with the tools to solve them. He is one of two futurists who have been accurate for the first 22 years of the century and is still on track.       Key Takeaways [2:18] David and Jim first met in Austin and found they had a mutual friend in Steve Justice.[3:46] In David’s youth, as a long-haired roadie, he ran audio for the Beach Boys, the Carpenters, and others. David shares a story from that era. [6:18] David solves wicked problems, which are complex problems that have no known solution path. He once had a team of about 200 people over a year make a 45-year wicked problem roadmap for high-energy-density storage for the military. We can store energy now, but not yet at the density that we need. [7:53] Sematech was formed to regain the semiconductor industry back in the United States. They did it. Dave was one of the co-leaders of the first industry roadmap done in the United States. They worked with semiconductor manufacturers, suppliers, academia, and the government to create the roadmap. The commercial sector, academic sector, and government sector acted as a technopolis to enact change. [9:16] Solving wicked problems involves pulling the various stakeholders of commerce, academics, and the government to work together. [10:31] David explains the process of seeing fifty years into the future. He was one of seven futurists who predicted that this century would be defined by bio. All technology is becoming biological. At 22 years in, he’s been pretty accurate. Only one of the other futurists is accurate for today. All the other five have fallen off the table. David explains how he used a framework. [11:20] A leading futurist has changed his future every 14 to 20 months. That’s not forecasting, it’s predicting and then changing his prediction. David uses a method that includes six views of the future: as an extrapolator, a pattern analyst, a goal-setter, a counterpuncher, an intuiter, or an artist. Different techniques are used for each of the views. [12:27] Use people who can work in different views to optimize out errors. David shares a story of a satellite phone company that went to market using only an extrapolation view to forecast sales. In 12 months, they asked David to work with them and get them on track, because his multiple-view forecast of their numbers had been right. [15:32] How can global social issues be solved? David explains that his framework can be applied across the U.S. and even as far as Malaysia. People understand the value of different views. He tells why the front windshield of a car is larger than the rear window; where we’ve been is important but where we’re going is more important. You need to know where you’ve been to be optimized for the future. [18:36] When David interviews people, he asks a standard set of questions and also roleplays. One roleplay involves the interviewee being asked to defend his actions against “one of the world’s leading experts” who disagrees with what the interviewee is doing. That shows David the candidate’s potential for dealing with human dynamics. It reveals competencies and capabilities. [21:46] David suggests something for leaders: They and everyone in their company need to know that we are in a time of lifelong learning and the way we learn is dramatically changing. David is constantly learning and constantly looking at how to learn. One of the six views of the future is counterpuncher. A counterpuncher does a great job of current awareness.  A counterpuncher works scenarios. [23:28] David looks for weak signals. There’s a lag between inventing something at a university and getting it to the marketplace. David uses tools that let him see what research universities are doing. That gives him the advantage of seeing weak, early signals and spending more time researching. He networks with a lot of people in different industries and he’s always learning. He connects the dots. [25:12] Leaders sometimes forget that other industries are having to solve many of the same types of problems. Dave suggests looking at horizontal convergence. Often you can connect the solutions and the data well between industries. Follow David on Twitter. He posts several times a day of early indicators of industries, trends, and research. [26:03] It’s very important to understand that the world is not static. Ask people to help you learn to do new things and prepare for the future. David tells people around the world that he’s an East Texas farm boy. He finds it a great way to get people comfortable talking with him. [27:06] Before going to a research university, David participated in a pilot education program with 21 students at a college outside of Dallas. It was a one-year inquiry program of learning from original source material without textbooks. It forced them to synthesize. Learning to synthesize, plus having great mentors, gave David the greatest advantage in his career. [29:24] We live with “systems of systems.” Your one mobile device has voice communication, data, photography, entertainment, GPS, etc. David suggests thinking of mentors as a system. One mentor for your current role, one mentor for understanding the politics of the company, and one mentor outside your company for understanding entrepreneurship. Make connections and cultivate them as you go. [31:34] Don’t look for a mentor to hold your hand, but one to point to the mountain and let you choose how to climb it to reach the top. Ask for help if you need it, but you need to understand the path yourself. You want a mentor to help stretch your brain, your competencies, and your capabilities. Learn intangibles above technical skills. David would hope you mentor others below you, too. It’s not one-way. [35:28] David’s hiring advice: Hire people who understand the principle of group intelligence. It’s one of the strongest things David looks for in capabilities. If a rockstar candidate does not work well with others, the impact of that candidate will not be sustainable or optimal. [36:23] David’s six views of the future are one of the ways he builds group intelligence. When he hires people, he wants to see if they’re the one who always has to be right or if they play well with others. [36:41] David recommends silent brainstorming to generate ideas. He explains why it brings out better ideas than brainstorming out loud, and how it works, using a customer example. [39:26] Wicked problems are solved using group intelligence, using a technopolis approach, and using the six views approach. The common theme is using the power of people and the power of group intelligence. [40:28] Participation in team sports is an indicator of group intelligence. David looks to see if candidates participate in group hackathons to develop a solution over a weekend with people you don’t work with. David also roleplays to see how the candidates get their information and use group intelligence. [42:28] David agrees with Steve Justice that we need to stand in the future. David says he has to live in the future to survive today. A leader’s job is to help get the roadmap in place for where the company wants to go. A map has multiple possible routes, and it’s not necessarily the leader’s role to pick the route and the detours. It’s to set the vision and help them understand what the future goals are. [43:28] A leader’s role is to help the organization put roadmaps together for technology, services, products, and capabilities. The roadmaps empower the organization to get to its goals. A 100% top-down leadership in today’s global, connected world would be too complicated for one leader. He needs the group intelligence of his teams, suppliers, and other stakeholders to help build the roadmaps. [44:52] David’s closing thoughts: Since the beginning of recorded data, the amount of data has doubled every two years. Because of the quantity of the data, most legacy tech systems will fail. People need to be in the mode of lifelong learning, or they will be left behind. Twenty years ago, we didn’t have web developers or eCommerce. Coming up, robotics and autonomous systems will revolutionize the world. [48:19] Closing quote: “We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.” — Albert Einstein.   Quotable Quotes “When we formed Sematech, our market share in the U.S. had fallen to about 30% globally. That’s a danger point for us. Just like today, … you’re hearing about how the U.S. must regain its semiconductor industry again. Well, we did it back then and it needs to be done again.” “[For] wicked problems, … you’ve got to pull these various stakeholders together. And then you have to use approaches to make sure that what you’re doing is accurate. And what has caused many of these to fail is the use of only a couple of different … views to make it happen.” “I have a framework where we look at six different views of the future. You’re an extrapolator, a pattern analyst, a goal-setter, a counter puncher, an intuiter, or an artist. What makes this system unique is that there are different techniques which go under each of those.” “When we try to tackle hard problems, … we use techniques that go across those different views. … When we do the working groups, I not only want people from the technopolis areas but I want people who have the ability to work in each of the different views of the future.” “Where we’ve been is important but where we’re going is more important.” “One of the first things I want the listeners to understand is that we’re in a time of life-long learning. And it’s not just for leadership but everyone within your company needs to understand that we’re in a time of lifelong learning. And the ways we learn are dramatically changing.” “When you [search], you rarely get any feedback from a university in the search results. But universities are doing a lot of the future science. There’s usually a lead-lag relationship between when something’s invented in a university before it gets to the … marketplace.” “I learn when I talk to people. … I ask questions. I put a scenario out there and say ‘Does it work here?’ and try to understand the answer. The ability for me to be able to work across the different industries I do is, I am a dot-connector.” “Very often, we get so caught up in our vertical industry knowledge, we forget the other industries are having to solve many of the same problems. Maybe a different set of customers, but face the same types of problems. So you need to begin to look at … horizontal convergence.” “We’ve got to change or we would still be plowing fields with pieces of rock.”   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by:  

Elliott Bisnow is the Co-Founder of Summit, whose family of organizations includes Powder Mountain, Summit Series, and Summit Junto. He’s also a startup investor in 50 companies like Uber, Coinbase, Warby Parker, and Albert. Elliott describes his passion for building companies and cultures, connecting deeply with people on his teams, and building events and communities. He believes that what is good for business should be what is good for the community and the world.       Key Takeaways [2:20] Elliott Bisnow is focused on building companies with a great culture, and teams he loves, connecting deeply with the people who work at the Summit businesses, designing and building events and experiences, and meeting the people that come. He loves building communities and getting to understand them. He loves creating teams he wants to be part of. Elliott is a people person. [4:31] The least important part of any business is caring about profits and making money. Those things come from a well-run business with a great product. Good entrepreneurs, good CEOs, and good leaders are obsessed and focused on the thing that their company is making or selling. Consider why you are an entrepreneur. What are you bringing to the world? Elliott loves designing products. [6:239] Elliott recalls growing up watching MTV’s Cribs and seeing the Forbes 400 list, which he remembers with negative associations. He remembers the first group of entrepreneurs he met who cared about the product, the customers, and the communities they were serving. He contrasts the old business model of profit-seeking with a new business model focused on the good of the community. [11:09] Are new entrepreneurs better people or do they just talk more about what they do in the community than the CEOs of the ’90s talked about? Growing up, Elliott never heard of CEOs doing good in the community. He realized he could build businesses that combine profits and purpose. He says, “Profit Enough. What’s good for our business should be good for the community and the world.” [12:46] It’s a lot more enjoyable to do business when your team is happy, when your community is happy, and when you feel good about what you’re creating. [13:44] Elliott liked college as a place to start a business because you have your dorm, food, and classes even if the business fails. His first two businesses in college didn’t work. His third idea did work so he quit college and moved back in with his parents. He made every possible mistake as he learned how to run a startup. The key is to take small risks and make small mistakes and learn from them. [16:56] Elliott builds community by creating things that allow people to self-select into them, being very defined about its mission. However, once people have self-selected into an event, you can find yourself with a lot of similar voices and little diversity. [19:21] Elliott has kept a notepad on his phone for over 10 years. Anytime he hears something or reads something interesting, he writes a note down. He might write one note in a week or three in a day. He has thousands of notes he re-reads. He receives wisdom from other people in two ways: the first way is by reading one book a week; the second is by meeting people in the flow of life and listening to them. [21:45] Elliott has an 80% rule about conversations. In 80% of his conversations, he tries to ask questions. He will ask a question rather than answer one. He finds wisdom from ordinary people. Between his conversations and reading books, he’s getting a lot of good ideas. [24:59] When Elliott realized he wanted to be an entrepreneur, he read a lot of very simple books about people’s journeys to becoming entrepreneurs. Then he was done reading about entrepreneurs and wanted to go be an entrepreneur. [25:36] Elliott sees that MBA courses would serve people better after the people had experienced some years in business. Elliott spends a lot of time thinking about the books he is going to read. He identifies the types of books he wants to read. He also reads some books for fun. When he meets people that don’t read, he suggests books that are just for fun, to get them to fall in love with reading. [27:31] You have to be in a good mindset to sit and read a business book. Elliott will skip a few pages ahead if he gets bored. He doesn’t get stuck on pages. Reading is a big part of Elliott’s life. [28:30] Elliott discusses the virtues of knowing when to quit and cites Warren Buffet who only makes small mistakes because he knows when to get out of a deal. He’s never been in a massive mistake. [29:27] Elliott’s view on ideas is that it’s quite difficult to come up with good ideas, so you need to create a culture where the most ideas possible can come forward, no matter what they are. That’s a hard environment to maintain when people naturally shoot down ideas or want to take credit for them. Elliott says there’s no limit to what you can achieve if you give other people credit. [32:03] Elliott describes what it means to be a “favor-economy millionaire.” Build up a network of people with whom you trade for services. Having relationships where you and your network can help each other grow is extremely important. [35:05] Being an entrepreneur or a leader is hard. Making money is hard. Saving money is hard. Bartering makes it easier to do business. Relationships are like muscles and the more that you work with them, the more you nurture the relationships. Give to people and it will come back many times over. [36:32] Elliott’s takeaway from his book, Make No Small Plans: Between the life people are living and the life they want to live, there’s a lot of white space. Make No Small Plans, is in the context of the life that you want to live. Step out of anything that’s held you back. Make plans to get to where you want to be. [40:06] Closing quote: “The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposing ideas in mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function.” — F. Scott Fitzgerald.   Quotable Quotes “When you’re an entrepreneur, you get to create your own culture and your own team.” “The least important part of any business is caring about profits and making money. Those things come from a well-run business with a great product. … Good entrepreneurs, good CEOs, and good leaders are obsessed and focused on the thing that their company is making or selling.” “At the crux of entrepreneurship is, ‘What is the thing that you’re bringing to the world? Why are you an entrepreneur?’” “Just from a personal, selfish standpoint, it’s a lot more enjoyable way to do business when your team is happy, when your community is happy, and when you actually feel really good about what you’re creating.” “My main takeaway is that, as long as your mistakes are small, there’s not very far to fall. … In the early days, the key is taking lots of small risks.” “There’s a lot of emphasis placed on gaining tips and wisdom from super-famous people but I find that there’s just as much wisdom to be had from every person in the world.” “The most important thing about reading is falling in love with reading. And so most people who don’t read, I give them a few books that are just fun.” “You have to be in a good mindset to be able to sit and read a business book. And then I've developed a couple of tricks when it comes to reading, like skipping forward and if things are boring, don’t let it hold you back; don’t get stuck on pages.” “There are certain things where quitting is a virtue and it’s a good skill to have.” “Between the life people want to live, and the life that they’re living, there’s a lot of white space. When I think about Make No Small Plans, it’s in the context of the life that you want to live.”   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by:  

Kathy Miller is a senior manufacturing executive, professional coach, business transformation advisor, and co-author of “Steel Toes and Stilettos: A True Story of Women Manufacturing Leaders and Lean Transformation Success.” Kathy shares the emotional event that fueled her determination, and the value of prosocial behaviors at work. Kathy also talks about the most meaningful metrics: growth and profitability. She reveals how relationships between leaders and their staff can be maintained, and that showing up authentically is as important to your health as it is for  the health of the organization.   Key Takeaways [3:40] Kathy Miller and Shannon Karels co-authored Steel Toes and Stilettos, published in late 2021. The book talks about prosocial behaviors, which are socially accepted actions that benefit other individuals or communities. Kathy explains prosocial behavior as you being able to contribute to something larger than yourself in your current role. [5:00] Selflessness at work begins with leaders setting the norms in the organization. As leaders display empathy and compassion and connect with employees, employees want to give back. It’s also by taking the workers and connecting them with a larger purpose than the paycheck and benefits, displaying how the work they’re doing connects to the community and makes the world a better place. [6:29] Kathy recalls campaigns in her organizations that showed how the parts they made helped to feed the world or how the cars they made provided safe transportation for families. The majority of people respond to that very positively. The book includes a lot about leading with examples and cues in the workplace that say what you are doing is meaningful. [7:14] Peter Drucker wrote that “The purpose of a business is to create a customer.” Workers are here to get and keep customers. Lean manufacturing starts with providing customer value. Whatever the profession, people want to leave the world a better place than they found it, at the end of the day. [10:15] Taking engineering through a co-op school was a practical way for Kathy to fund her way through college. When she first toured a plant with her father, she was exposed to “whooping and hollering and whistling,” but he told her, “People are people,” and “You’re going to be fine,” so she wasn’t intimidated. She immediately fell in love with the automotive assembly plant. It was challenging for her. [11:52] When Kathy graduated, the plan shut down, after having been in production for 50 years. It was a significant emotional event, very early in her career. All the men followed the last car down the line, not knowing what would happen with their lives. That was one of the things that fueled Kathy to want to go into leadership and help create businesses that wouldn’t have to experience that. [13:05] Kathy went into engineering and marketing, but she missed the factory, so she went back into operations. [13:45] When Kathy was young, she was walking in the factory, in the instrument panel area where most of the women worked, and she thought it would be a “safe” place. Some women called her over to show her a box of chocolates shaped like private parts. Later her supervisor saw she was upset and told her that in manufacturing, she could not wear her heart on her sleeve. She learned never to cry at work! [17:26] With great challenges come great rewards. Jan recalls a guest who said, “A career is made from hard bosses that are terrible and challenges that are impossible! It’s not made from a nice environment.” He was the HR director for Jack Welch. [18:26] Kathy suggests two fundamental metrics for success: growth and profitability. Growing with your customers means focusing on them and meeting their needs. And you have to be profitable to pay the bills. There are subordinate metrics you have to address, but profitability and growth are the greatest. If they’re moving in the right direction with momentum, it shows you have an inclusive environment. [19:49] Whatever metrics you take, boil them down so they are meaningful to the people at their level. You want to drive the right behavior. Any metric can be gamed, so look at an overall business system. Everyone in the organization needs to know how their role contributes to the metrics. [22:14] The almost universal response to the idea of any transformation is, “We are different, unique, and special and that will not work here!” As a leader of a transformation, you have to be able to articulate a vision of the future that people can relate to because most people have not experienced those levels of performance, and those types of systems and processes. [23:43] There is the danger of a “Program of the Month” fatigue in organizations from all the initiatives that come along. Break out of being just another initiative. It takes a lot of perseverance and communication, not varying from your stated goal. The “secret sauce” is that people will implement what they help create. [26:03] It’s impossible to personalize the vision to every individual. People have different motivations. When you are the top leader, you are trying to describe what that vision means for the good of the organization. Kathy relates this to her origin story of watching a plant close and how she doesn’t want that to happen on her watch. Leaders have to show a little vulnerability and how it is personal to them. [27:11] Kathy explains the formal strategy deployment process where the leader shares the vision for the organization and each leader translates it to be meaningful to their area, cascading down to the level of operators. If you’re doing these things correctly, people will see their lives getting better. They’re less frustrated; you’re supporting them and making their work more manageable or better. [28:02] The chapters in Kathy’s book are named after shoes: baby shoes, cowboy boots, steel toes, flip-flops, etc. Kathy explains why different shoes are needed for different stages. With the supply chain challenges and workforce shortages, the working world is at a reset. For Kathy, that means we need cowboy boots (Chapter 2). We need to reset the vision for the next era. [31:24] Kathy tells about her relationship with her co-author, Shannon Karels. Shannon was brought into the team to be a transformation expert. Kathy has seen Shannon grow, contribute, and become highly accomplished. They got to be very close and accomplished things together. Now they talk about how they can model for others the great relationship that they’ve had. It’s the best part of sisterhood! [34:10] Kathy has some guidelines to share on work friendships. The relationship between Shannon and Kathy has grown over time. Now that they do not work together, it has grown a lot more. At work, Kathy is very conscious about not playing favorites. She has great relationships with everybody on her staff and sometimes those involve very hard conversations. Now, Shannon’s son calls her “Aunt Kathy.” [36:21] Kathy carefully managed the optics of friendships between herself and her staff. It is lonely at the top. She would only confide in peers at other organizations, not in members of her team. Shannon was a member of Kathy’s staff and was treated fairly and equally with the other staff members. They became so much closer when they wrote a book together as equals. [38:05] Leaders today should pay attention to showing up for work with authenticity, in Kathy’s view. If you can’t show up authentically, ask yourself “why?” Is this a good fit? It’s not healthy if you can’t show up authentically. It’s not healthy for you, your employees, or the company. [41:23] Jim promises to tell a funny story of how he came to interview at Ford with two black eyes and a broken nose if listeners will put 10 new reviews on Apple Podcasts by the end of the month! [43:04] Closing quote: “The only way you survive is you continuously transform into something else. It’s this idea of continuous transformation that makes you an innovation company.” — Ginni Rometty.   Quotable Quotes “Prosocial behaviors are a component of meaningful work; taking individuals who are providing roles and making sure that they’re connected to the needs of others. It’s just a fancy term for being able to contribute to something larger than yourself in the current role that you’re in.” “What you’re doing is meaningful. You might not be able to see it with that part that you’re assembling but you are connected to a greater purpose.” “Engineers are people, too, right? We all want to, at the end of the day, make a difference in the world, through our talents and our skills.” “I immediately fell in love with the automotive assembly plant. I couldn’t believe that every 60 seconds, a functioning vehicle came off the end of that line. And then, after I’d worked there five years, I was even more fascinated by it, when you see all the challenges.” “I saw very early in my life, the impact of a failed business on the lives of so many people. And so, it really taught me, ‘You have to produce results; you have to be successful; you have to give back and create these strong manufacturing businesses.’” “If you continue to grow with your customers, it means you’re focusing on your customers and their needs and meeting their needs, and other customers are getting attracted to you. And you have to be profitable because you have to pay the bills.” “Metrics need to be visible, and they need to be meaningful, and they need to be connected to the overall mission.” “The strategy deployment process [says] ‘These are the levels we need to be a competitive business,’ and then you let the leaders translate that to what that means to their part of the organization, and cascade it … until it gets to a meaningful level at the operator level.” “Understand, what is the current state? What are the variables, right now, that we have to contend with and how are we going to move all those variables in a positive direction in this post-pandemic era?” “If you can’t marry the values and actions and behaviors of the company with your own moral compass and show up authentically, it’s probably time to ask yourself some hard questions and maybe find somewhere where you can show up … authentically.”   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by:

Dr. Laura Bokar is the CEO of Fox Valley Institute for Growth and Wellness and the author of “We Need to Talk: 24 Simple Insights for Relationships.” Laura discusses a variety of relationship topics, and points out that home and business relationships are the same… they are human relationships. Laura discusses the nuances of difficult conversations, how relationships fail, and how they can be repaired.    Listen to this episode to learn to nurture relationships and avoid big problems.     Key Takeaways [2:20] Laura credits her fabulous husband, Chuck, for helping her throughout her career and in building Fox Valley Institute as a “silent partner.” [3:47] Difficult conversations create fear and anxiety for some. These conversations are on topics important to us, with high and intense emotions behind them. We have uncertainty about how the other person will respond. Laura suggests staying on track in difficult conversations by first embracing and understanding your emotions, preparing, and practicing. [5:59] Before a difficult conversation, own your emotions, manage them, and understand them. You don’t want two emotional people coming into a room. Be clear about what is important to you to bring up and talk about. In the conversation, affirm the person and the relationship, and then let them know what you want to talk about. Be hard on the issue and soft on the person. [7:09] Listen for content and emotions. Respond to emotions with empathy and validation. Sometimes people bring up unresolved issues from the past. These issues will keep resurfacing until they are made the topic of another necessary difficult conversation. When a person gets overwhelmed, they want to shut down and blame or shame themselves. Address what is overwhelming them. [10:39] Can a difficult conversation be avoided? Ask yourself if it will improve the relationship and if the relationship is important enough for you to want to improve it. Knowing the answer, you can decide whether or not to have that difficult conversation. It’s an investment. Are both of you invested? [12:53] Relationships usually don't degrade with one big lapse but with a bunch of small paper cuts. Laura shares examples of small injuries that hurt relationships. You may not be paying attention to them but they build up and put distance between people. Justifications and excuses create distance in both personal and business relationships because you lose trust. Apologize for the small things. [16:02] Small things may call for difficult conversations. Many things can be resolved by talking about them. It could be a reason you don’t know about, such as having a terminally ill family member. Once you know, you can understand and probably let go of it. The person would probably pivot and get back on track. [17:53] Laura tells how to say you’re sorry in a heartfelt way when you understand how you hurt that person. Let them hear that you get it and that you empathize. If the hurt person wants an explanation you can give it; not to satisfy yourself. [19:57] Laura explains primary and secondary emotions. The primary emotion may be sadness, hurt, shame, or loneliness. Shame is an emotion that can’t live in the light. We don’t want to share it. It’s hard to get it into the conversation. It’s probably connected to something deep in the past. If the issue is shame, recommend professional help. Bringing it to the light with a therapist will mean freedom. [24:00] Many leaders get to know their people, notice when they have a change in performance, and have conversations with them. If there is a home problem, Laura recommends the person talk to a professional. Let them find someone they can talk to about it who is not their boss. Leaders should also have the experience of talking to a therapist; they can tell the employee they’ve done it and it is helpful. [28:09] Be aware of changes that might signal depression and recommend the employee talk to a professional therapist if you see the signs. Depression and anxiety are invisible disorders but when they get to the point where you see behavioral changes, it’s usually pretty bad. [29:14] Different generations manage online situations differently. If you notice a big gap between a person’s personality in person and online, talk with them about it. [31:50] Steven Covey told his divorcing friend to “Love her” instead of divorcing his wife. Laura says that the injuries behind the divorce first have to be identified, understood, and forgiven before love will work. [34:15] We have the Great Resignation. Laura says people needed a change, so they left jobs. Many are going back. The grass wasn’t greener on the other side. Laura suggests before leaving a position have a talk with your manager. It’s a failure in the relationship if the manager is not aware of your dissatisfaction. Invest in work relationships. There is no replacement for spending time with humans. [36:55] Some companies attempted to give big raises to prevent people from leaving. But it wasn’t the money, it was the inadvertent slights that were the problems. Leaders have to be intentional and mindful of those small things. Many slights over a long period will add up. [38:32] Relationships are the most important thing. We need to treasure them, and to do that, we need to spend time with them and commit to them. Understand the person. Ask questions and be curious about who they are, what they like, and what they want to do. [39:06] The important thing about being grateful is to feel it. Laura asks the listener to remember when people were grateful for you and thanked you. Those are thoughts that will create biological change in you and bring out more emotions. Laura says, “So that’s my challenge: is to not just make the list anymore about being grateful, just remember when people were grateful for you.”  [41:38] Closing quote: “Assumptions are the termites of relationships.” — Henry Winkler.   Quotable Quotes “So the uncertainty, the high emotions, and knowing that’s something big we want to talk about, that matters to us; people usually will shy away from that.” “[A difficult conversation is] not very comfortable. It also creates fear and anxiety for people. But the more important piece about why we avoid it is because we’re going to be talking about something that’s important to us and with that, usually, we get high, intense emotions.” “The foundation of it is … owning your emotions and managing them and understanding them so you don’t bring them into the room. Because you don’t want two emotional people coming into a room.” “It’s important to notice [the small stuff], apologize for it, and then you can let go. I don’t want you to sweat over it. Let’s resolve it.” “Many times the grass does look greener on the other side and that is part of the injuries that occur during the relationship. It’s those little things, if there wasn’t a big thing that you know, like an affair. … To just go love someone is difficult if there are injuries.” “Injuries can only be healed if they’re identified, understood, and forgiven as a part of that.” “You need to have those conversations; you need connection. If people aren’t feeling connected, whether at work or in your marriage, people will start looking over their shoulder for the grass to be greener.” “Usually, they say to feel better or to help, think of three or five things to be grateful for before you go to bed or when you wake up. But the more important thing about being grateful is to feel it. … Remember the times when people were grateful for you.”   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by:  

Gino Wickman is an accomplished entrepreneur and innovator, creator of the EOS system, and author of many books, including Traction and Entrepreneurial Leap. Gino talks about his new book, “Entrepreneurial Leap.”  Gino describes what makes an entrepreneur, and whether you can learn the traits you need. Gino also shares how his early family business venture led to how he created the Entrepreneurial Operating System® (EOS®). Gino reveals that timing is not as important as adaptability. Products will always change. Customers will always have needs. Lastly, Gino offers a free assessment to see if you are an entrepreneur-in-the-making, or an entrepreneurial leader. Listen in for a fascinating lesson on the essence of entrepreneurship.     Key Takeaways [2:26] Gino Wickman talks about balance and his passions of simple things. He’s obsessed with entrepreneurs in his working life and pursues his passions in his personal life. [5:08] Do you have what it takes to be an entrepreneur? Every entrepreneur is a leader. Gino urges leaders who aren’t entrepreneurs to open their minds to the possibility of being entrepreneurial leaders. Gino’s life work is helping entrepreneurs and entrepreneurial leaders. At EOS, they are working with entrepreneurial leadership teams who run businesses of 10 to 250 persons. [6:12] Entrepreneurial Leap is for entrepreneurs who are about to take an entrepreneurial leap or who just took it and are in the startup phase. [6:37] Six essential traits make an entrepreneur:1.) Visionary, 2.) Passionate, 3.) Problem-solver, 4.) Driven, 5.) Risk-taker, and 6.) Responsible. [6:55] If you have these inborn traits, you are either an entrepreneur or an entrepreneur-in-the-making. If you are a leader with a few of these traits, you are in the right place and are an entrepreneurial leader. You’re probably not going to take the risk to start a business and that’s all OK. [7:20] The reason Gino wrote Entrepreneurial Leap is that being an entrepreneur is the new rockstar and everyone wants to be an entrepreneur. It’s not for everyone. It’s not all it’s cracked up to be. If you take the entrepreneurial leap without having the six essential traits, you will be miserable for years and lose all your money. Gino breaks hearts and saves lives with the news! [8:21] Gino explains the six essential traits cannot be learned; you have to be born with them. Every true entrepreneur he knows agrees and has these six essential traits. He hopes he’s wrong but he doesn’t think he is! [9:20] How do entrepreneurs differ in their decision-making, taking on risks responsibly? A risk-taker knows the odds are that they are going to fail; they are willing to fail, depending on themselves 100% for income, and taking total responsibility for the outcome. [13:54] When Gino took the leap to create EOS he was armed with two thoughts: He saw the needs of entrepreneurs, mismanaging their businesses, and saw nothing but opportunity. He believed he could help them — he had no idea how! He burned so much with the passion to connect the dots that he threw himself out there and simply figured it out. Most people would not take the risk. [15:48] Gino discusses the meaning of risk. Is it as big a risk if you are well-prepared for it? Gino notes there is an entrepreneurial range, from one-person side hustle to the greatest entrepreneur in the world and every entrepreneur fits in that range. Large risks or small, there are always risks. [18:17] Timing matters. In 1,000 years of entrepreneurial history, two things have always changed: products and services and methods of communication. Two things have never changed: People have wants and needs and you have to persuade them. Gino contrasts the too-early Newton with the iPhone that revolutionized the world 15 years later as an example of timing. [19:58] When Gino built EOS Worldwide, the coaching industry exploded. His timing was perfect. Steve Jobs and Bill Gates had perfect timing with software and computers. Entrepreneurs have to evolve with the times, keeping an ear to the ground and always knowing what the customer wants and needs. Be agile and adaptable. [22:50] Even with perfect timing for a product, the customer’s wants and needs will change. The true entrepreneur will evolve to continue meeting those wants and needs. The person who got lucky with timing but does not evolve will be out of business in two to ten years. [24:46] Gino offers a free assessment at e-leap.com to determine if you have the six essential traits. [25:26] Gino wrote The EOS Life, which teaches the five points of how to live your ideal life. In that book, Gino shares energy management advice to help you live a balanced life doing what you love with people you love, making an impact, and making lots of money, with passion. Gino has launched a new platform around the ten disciplines for managing and maximizing your energy. [26:42] Gino shares the 10 disciplines for managing and maximizing your energy: 1.) 10-year thinking, 2.) Take time off, 3.) Know thyself, 4.) Be still, 5.) Know your 100% working time, 6.) Say no often, 7.) Don’t do $25/hour work 8.) Prepare every night, 9.) Put everything in one place, 10.) Be humble. [27:25] Gino’s platform for The 10 Disciplines is found at . The disciplines are how he manages and maximizes his energy. [28:40] The 10 disciplines assume you are a driven individual taking care of yourself. One principle is that you should never do anything you can pay somebody $25 an hour to do. Do high-value work and give the rest to employees. Gino hasn’t looked at his email for 20 years. Email sucks his energy. He’s on the move, he’s creative, he’s creating, he’s teaching, he’s helping, and his energy is high. [32:04] How do you maximize the benefit of having a mentor? Gino believes mentorship is a speed pass to success. He was blessed with two amazing mentors. His Dad, Floyd Wickman, was his people mentor for communication and leadership. Sam Cupp was his business mentor for running a company. Gino borrowed his father’s book, Mentoring, for the mentoring part of The 10 Disciplines. [33:00] Gino teaches you how to find a mentor but first, you have to decide where you want to be. Go and find the person who is where you want to be. There’s one out there who wants to pass on their wisdom and their legacy. Go work for them for free, attach yourself to them, and learn from them. Ask them if they will mentor you. Gino teaches how. Only about half of entrepreneurs have had mentors. [34:06] As a protege of a mentor, the two greatest things you can do to keep your mentor coming back are to thank them often and share with them how you’re applying what they’re teaching. Share the results. They are trying to pass on their legacy, and you can help them do it. [35:13] Gino delegates $500 an hour jobs to free himself for higher-value work. Once a quarter he delegates something big. He decided he needed to delegate his company, EOS. He did a five-year search for the right successor. The day after closing, he moved on to pursue his passion, which was creating Entrepreneurial Leap and now, The 10 Disciplines. Gino is just going to keep on creating stuff. [38:55] Gino uses his arms to communicate. He’s Italian! His gestures are energy shooting out of his body.  [40:55] Gino says most entrepreneurs are insecure. Gino was insecure at 18 but is more confident now. Gino quotes Daniel Kennedy, “We teach what we need the most.” Gino has always taught what he needed the most. Around age 40, Gino fully believed he deserved his optimal life and that’s what he teaches. [46:22] Closing quote: “There are many talented people who haven’t fulfilled their dreams because they overthought it or they were too cautious and were unwilling to make the leap of faith.” — James Cameron.   Quotable Quotes “Being an entrepreneur is the new rockstar. So in the 70s and 80s, everyone wanted to be a rockstar. Nowadays, everybody wants to be an entrepreneur! And it’s not for everyone, it’s not all it’s cracked up to be.” “This is a cautionary tale. I’m trying to find the 4% that are [entrepreneurial] and help the 96% that aren’t, realize ‘This is not the career for me!’ … People are taking entrepreneurial leaps; they don’t have the six essential traits, and they are miserable!” “True entrepreneurs with these six essential traits are borderline clinically crazy! We are not sane people! We’re not talking about sane people here. … It’s about just being comfortable taking the leap without having all of the answers!” “It’s a little scary and I never wanted to fail — never wanted to fail! But I have failed; it sucks! I licked my wounds when I failed but I picked myself up and I go! And for those that get paralyzed at the thought of taking a leap, you probably should not do this!” “I’m thinking of Steve Jobs when he came out with this hand-held device way too early, only to come out with it 15 years later and it revolutionized the world. So, there’s an example of timing.” “Never do anything you can pay somebody $25 an hour to do, … like checking your email, scheduling, booking travel, cutting your lawn, doing handy work. … Every hour you pay somebody $25 … to free yourself up to do $100, $200, $500, $1,000 an hour work, you are printing money.” “As a protege of a mentor, the two greatest things you can do to keep your mentor coming back: 1.) Thank them often. 2.) Share with them how you’re applying what they’re teaching. Share the results.” “My message to people is ‘You deserve to live your optimal life, and even further, it’s selfish not to because if you do it, you’re going to impact and change so many lives, you’re going to help me fix the world.”   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by: Entrepreneurial FREE entrepreneurial assessment  

Richard Newman is the Founder and CEO of BodyTalk. In 21 years, Richard’s team has trained over 100,000 business leaders globally to improve their communication and impact. Richard learned recently that he is high-functioning on the autism spectrum; and he feels it blessed him by guiding his life in a deep exploration of communication. He shares how he teaches the hero’s journey to improve storytelling in meetings. Richard tells of the importance of nonverbal behaviors and of a research study he conducted with University College London on the effectiveness of postures and nonverbal behavior in projecting leadership qualities. Richard has great advice for leaders on lifting others to become the best versions of themselves.   Key Takeaways [2:24] If Richard had been taller or a better player, he may have become a professional basketball player. He was sort of born in the wrong country. When he comes to the U.S., he loves going to watch basketball. There’s not much of a basketball industry in the UK. [4:11] At age 17, Richard taught 11-year-olds at his school how to play basketball, to keep up with other schools. He thought of going into teaching. He went to a monastery in India on a gap program and taught the monks English, using only a chalkboard, body language, and tone of voice. At the end of the first lesson they could confidently speak a few English words and they loved it. He taught for six months. [7:30] Richard learned from teaching English that to communicate well, he had to have congruency between his body language, his tone of voice, and his words. To teach the word “excited” he had to sound and look excited. Congruency is one of the key elements of great communication. That principle became foundational to BodyTalk, the company he founded. [8:56] Richard learned Nepali in India, the easiest dialect of the three languages spoken in the city where the monastery was located. He became more fluent in Nepali than in the French or German he had learned in school. [10:44] The biggest communication error is to treat people as human “doings” rather than human beings. Presentations seek to engage the logical mind. Studies show that the emotional brain engages first, and then sends a memo to the logical brain telling it what to notice. Before a meeting (or email), ask yourself, “How do I need people to feel by the end of this meeting (or email)?” [13:32] Everybody talks about storytelling; they know they need it, but few people understand what it is. Robert McKee says when you listen to a piece of music, you don’t automatically think you would be a great composer. When thinking of storytelling, why do you assume you would be a great storyteller? There is a framework you can learn to be able to tell stories well. [14:11] Storytelling allows us to give people information in the way the brain wants to receive it, engaging the survival mind, the emotional mind, and then, finally, the logical mind. Joseph Campbell’s The Hero With A Thousand Faces introduced this structure in 1949 after having studied how people of different civilizations that never had contact with each other have told stories through the centuries. [15:01] Christopher Vogler in the 1980s reduced Campbell’s 17-steps of the hero’s journey into 12 steps. Richard Newman has simplified those steps into five sections that his company teaches people to use for composing an email or making a presentation. [15:30] If you want to cascade information, frame an important message, or pitch your business, learn the power of storytelling. Richard tells of a client who went from a win rate of one in four to a 100% win rate in the space of a year, getting over a billion dollars of new business. Frame the information to engage the survival and emotional brain, the logical brain, and then get people to take action at the end. [16:50] Jim Carey said that constantly talking isn’t necessarily communicating. The way to turn any information into a more engaging story is to add in moments of feelings. Describe the feelings the facts give you. Start with your goal in mind. What feeling would people need to have for them to take the action you would persuade them to take? [21:50] Richard offers a tip on how to lose your self-consciousness and gain confidence. Before a meeting, get centered within yourself; have internal validation. Then, going into the room, focus entirely on what is happening outside of you, so you are always thinking, “How do I serve them? How do I make sure they understand? How do I get them to this feeling by the end of the conversation?” [27:41] People going through the Great Resignation are questioning their values and what they want their life to be about. Businesses sometimes have to make a hard decision because the easy one doesn’t match their values. Choosing the easy path may give a short-term gain but it leads to long-term pain. People will follow you if they see you don’t compromise your values for short-term benefits. [30:00] Richard learned recently that he is high-functioning autistic.  He had a sense of sudden understanding. He’d known since he was a child he could not connect with his peers but didn’t know why. He developed a passion for studying communication. As a teen, he read over 200 books on it, including nonverbal communication. He went to a professional acting school. He sees it as a blessing. [33:20] Jan refers to previous guest Tim Cole as a great storyteller. [34:12] Richard teaches behaviors that can increase leadership success by 44%. He developed these behaviors while giving over 1,000 presentations to a Formula 1 team. It was the same presentation with different statistics after each race, to different audiences. He started noticing what worked universally and teaching it to clients. They went to University College London to get it scientifically validated. [35:57] They worked with researcher Dr. Adrian Furnham, Head of Psychology. They developed an 18-month study using 100 videos of the same speech, with different speakers, using variations in the nonverbal behavior of the speaker, from the most common gestures to the ones that should give the appearance of leadership.[37:09 Dr. Alastair McLelland, the statistician, had never seen results like it! From the most common behaviors to the most effective behaviors, there was a 44% difference in the appearance of leadership. The best behaviors would change the number of people voting for you by 59%! Standing centered looks competent while leaning to one side, swaying, or walking back and forth gives poor ratings. [39:30] If you’re speaking to a group, people want to know that you, as their tribe leader, can honestly lead the group. If they see gravitas, they will believe you; if they see a pushover, they will not. If they believe in you, they will engage with your message and follow you. Amy Cuddy’s TED Talk on body language says if you stand or sit in a way that shows confidence, your confidence hormones rise. [42:53] Watching the early Democrat presidential debates in 2020, Richard spotted that Kamala Harris got the most emotional reactions from the audience. She didn’t win the nomination, but Biden picked her to run with him for her emotional appeal. Richard doesn’t recommend going for a negative response! [45:36] Being positive doesn’t mean covering up bad facts. It is always better to dig into the truth of the situation. If things are going poorly, then it’s important to state that. If people have challenges, you want to acknowledge and discuss those and show that you care about them. People often forget to recognize challenges while they tell a story. People’s challenges could disconnect them from the story. [46:08] Start from the sense that everybody cares about challenges and everybody cares about having a better future. We all have this pain/pleasure mechanism. Make sure you represent those. Go in with a sense of empathy rather than making those negative feelings worse. [47:04] Is showing a bad temper justifiable? Richard answers with a customer service experience he had. He recommends using the power of “lift,” where you aim to lift the conversation. Before you go into the room. lift yourself to show up as your best version. Then go into the meeting and see the best version of them. They will want to live up to this. Leaders can encourage their team by seeing the best in them. [50:46] Jim’s last words: There is nothing more powerful as a leader you can do for your team than to see their greatness. Don’t show up as the hero. Lead them to be heroes; show up as their mentor. [52:03] Jan invites all listeners to give a listen to Corporate Competitor Podcast, hosted by Don Yaeger. [52:53] Jim closes with a quote: “Outstanding leaders go out of their way to boost the self-esteem of their personnel. If people believe in themselves, it’s amazing what they can accomplish.” — Sam Walton.   Quotable Quotes “By the time I got to be 17, I thought, … ‘I’m going to teach the 11-year-olds at our school how to play basketball so they don’t get beaten to pieces in their first game as we did.’ So I started doing that. I loved that. I loved how much they gained from it.” “[The monks and I] would sit together in the evenings after they came back from going out and doing prayers in the town, … and I would then aim to teach them how to speak English, and had to do it completely using body language and tone of voice.” “[Congruency] is one of the key elements of great communication. When you have congruency, it becomes very charismatic but also much easier for people to pay attention, to listen to you, and to understand what you really mean.” “You need to make sure you’ve got hearts and minds. You need to make sure you’ve engaged people emotionally first, then logically, and then they’re more likely to follow you as a leader.” “What storytelling allows us to do is to give people information in the way the brain wants to receive it, engaging the survival [mind], then the emotional mind, and then, finally, the logical mind.” “If people know how to use storytelling day-to-day, it’s incredible how it increases your influence, and you can use it in a 30-second conversation, … or you can see this in a three-hour movie, or you can use it for a two-day conference that you’re hosting, as well.” “If you’re speaking to a group, we want to know, as our tribe leader, can you honestly lead this group? If you’ve got gravitas, we believe it, if you’re a pushover, we don’t.” “It is always worthwhile digging into the truth of the situation. If things are going poorly, then it’s important to state that. If people have challenges, you want to acknowledge those, and discuss those, and show that you care about them.” “When people can’t see the best version of themselves, see it in them for them, and by doing so, you give them an open door to become a lifted part of themselves.” “You’re seeing the greatness within them and allowing them to go on the journey, and that’s what great leaders can do, they can lift everybody else to perform at their best.”   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by:

Sandra Stosz is the author of “Breaking Ice and Breaking Glass: Leading in Uncharted Waters.” Sandra is a retired U.S. Coast Guard Vice Admiral who served for over 40 years, including 12 years at sea. She often led all-male teams and was the first woman to lead a U.S. Armed Forces Service Academy. In this episode, Sandra shares with humility some of the leadership lessons she learned in the Coast Guard. She shares humorous stories, and reveals things she learned early that shaped her remarkable career, and why she baked cakes for her staff!     Key Takeaways [1:36] Jim introduces Vice Admiral Sandra Stosz, Retired, tells of her background, and welcomes her to The Leadership Podcast. [2:08] Sandra’s nephew Hunter Stosz is a Lieutenant in the Coast Guard, serving as the Combat Systems Officer on the Coast Guard National Security Cutter JAMES out of Charleston, S.C. Hunter was a cadet at the Coast Guard Academy when Sandra was the Superintendent. That was his leadership crucible! [3:01] Sandra’s hobby is baking cakes! She would bring them into the office and give people a break to stop what they were doing and gather in the conference room to talk and laugh. [4:35] Sandra talks about the Coast Guard Academy, where she was Superintendent from 2011 to ’15, and the Loy Institute for Leadership. She retired from the Coast Guard in 2018 but she is a trustee of the Loy Institute for Leadership, which is the Academy’s agent for leadership development. [6:16] The Coast Guard Academy, like all the service academies, is a 200-week program, meaning four full years of school. A lot of the Academy’s leadership development happens during the summer. Training is given through a framework called LEAD: Learn from theory, Experience through practice, Analyze using reflection, and Deepen understanding from mentoring. [7:09] It’s a virtuous cycle of leader development. It starts with cadets learning in a classroom from Posner and Kouzes’s Leadership Challenge for leadership theory. Then they put the cadets on the water for experiential leadership development through seamanship in sailing programs, and small boat practice, all on the water. The more senior cadets use a practicum that tells them how to instruct. [8:19] After a day on the water, the cadets analyze through reflection. They sit down and “hotwash” what happened; what they want to repeat next time, what they want to avoid next time, and what they learned. Then the cadets deepen their understanding through mentoring. Everybody who learns continues to mentor somebody else, making it a virtuous cycle. [8:48] Sandra shares a story of leadership learning. The cadets sailing a ship tacked suddenly without warning the cook in the galley, the only female cadet on board. Hotdogs flew all over the deck and what seemed funny to the cadets on deck upset the cook who felt laughed at and disrespected. Leadership also means inclusion and respect. [11:18] You can learn to lead through practical experience. The Coast Guard Academy collects data from performance reviews to measure leadership development over the four-year program. It’s hard to measure leadership development over four years but they are on a mission to do that and they are getting closer every month. [12:15] The Coast Guard Academy LEAD framework is built upon the Coast Guard framework of leading self, leading others, and leading the organization. Cadets learn to lead themselves and lead others. They do not advance to leading the organization at the Academy. Sandra tells a story of a cadet who carelessly filled the fuel tank with water. He will never do that again, having learned by experience. [15:12] Officers in the Coast Guard learn to lead the organization, which is strategic. Sandra has seen senior leaders fall short and fail when they did not mature from tactical thinking to strategic thinking. Strategy is looking over the horizon to anticipate threats that might come over that horizon, and then adjust, adapt, and be agile. [16:15] At the organizational level, you face crises where the easy decisions and actions have been made at the lower levels; if it ends up in your hands, it is a big decision. You’ve got to be strategic and decisive. A lot of people aren’t strategic or are not decisive. They haven’t learned how to move from leading others to making decisions that affect the organization and how the organization relates to others. [17:59] Jim highly recommends Sandra’s book. It addresses the balance between power and control. Sandra speaks of the responsibility of the individual and the team to find ways to power through crisis and adversity. There is leadership at all levels. It’s not just about the top boss. Sandra mentions Extreme Ownership. [19:50] It is popular now to blame others for everything wrong so you don’t have to own up to it. Sandra was thinking about that when she wrote her book. She was grateful when someone gave her a Serenity Prayer plaque at a difficult point in her career. She was trying to control everything and having trouble letting go of things she couldn’t control. She carried that prayer to every duty station. [20:50] The balance between control and power reminds Sandra of Aristotle's Golden Mean, which is the balance between extremes. The most powerful thing you can do is release your control and give your power away. Giving power away empowers others. You don’t lose anything by giving power away. You gain the respect and trust of those you empower. [22:12] Control originates from humility and power originates from hubris. Sandra explains why humility is hard to maintain as you advance in rank. The more senior she became, she tried hard to build trust and earn respect and not use her position of power. [23:59] Sandra shares a story on the paradox of control about giving away power. Her Captain gave his power to her, a young lieutenant, to give an important brief to a Commandant of the Coast Guard. She had never given a speech before! For the rest of her career, she worked to give her power away to younger officers. [27:26] Jan cites an Arthur Brooks article, “Being special vs. happy: What success addiction looks like and how to recover,” that discusses motivation and happiness. What would Sandra’s advice be to her 27-year-old self? She would tell her younger self that prevention comes before response and remember the importance of establishing boundaries. [31:41] The four types of exhaustion or wellness are physical, emotional, mental, and spiritual. Don’t allow yourself to be exhausted in all four of these areas at the same time! You can manage your wellness with a structure of boundaries built on a foundation of values. If you can’t manage your wellness, you can’t manage your team’s wellness. [36:15] One of the chapters of Sandra’s book is “There’s no secret ingredient.” — Kung Fu Panda. Sandra sees 10 leadership lessons in Kung Fu Panda and Kung Fu Panda 2.[37:26] Sandra shares a foundational story from serving on her first ship, an icebreaker sailing to Antarctica. She learned the Three Ps of Power: Personal, Professional, and Positional. Lean on the first two and go to the third only as a last resort. Your personal power is your EQ. Your professional power is your work ethic and values. Your positional power is your rank or leadership role. [39:44] Use your personal and professional power every day and you will build trust and earn respect. People will want to do their jobs because they feel like they’re part of something bigger than themselves, they feel shared values, they know their purpose, they have pride and passion, and they want to end each day deeply content, satisfied, and feeling good about themselves, their work, and life. [41:12] Leadership is not all in a textbook. It’s hard to learn it and hard to teach it. If you're trying to understand leadership and finding it not easy, your symptoms are normal. Jan shares a message with new listeners. Jan and Jim use the tagline, “We study leaders.” After interviewing 300 leaders, we’re still learning. It will be our lifelong pursuit. [43:02] Sandra’s advice for people in transition from one chapter of their life to the next: Watch out for becoming part of another “me” generation. The people who will be happiest, in the long run, will be are going to look at how they can contribute as part of a bigger purpose with values that they share. They’re going to persevere. They’re going to put in more than they take out. They're going to be contributors. [45:20] Sandra’s last words are about life-long learning. She stayed for 40 years in the Coast Guard because it gave her opportunities to train, advance, and go to the Kellogg Business School, the National War College, and a Capstone program. She continues to read and develop herself. Life-long learning is key to your ability to succeed in a meaningful way. [47:06] Jan closes with a quote from Amelia Earhardt on the decision to act.   Quotable Quotes “Every once in a while, you need a reason to laugh when you’re at work and you’re in a really tough job. I think the cakes helped build that camaraderie and that’s one thing I like about in-person workplaces.” “We expect the cadets to make a mistake when they’re learning how to lead themselves. It’s trial and error. And this is the time when we give them leeway to fail and pick themselves up, and make mistakes, admit them, and try not to repeat them.” “I’ve seen senior leaders fall short and even fail if they keep on with the behaviors that made them successful while leading self and leading others and they move into leading the organization but don’t mature to strategic thinking.” “Be strategic and be decisive. A lot of times, people … haven’t learned how to move from leading others to making decisions that affect an organization, ... the programs, and how that organization relates to others. … Move up into the strategic decision-making realm.” “Type “A”s out there, hear me! You want to control everything and it can drive you crazy. And if you don't let it go it will burn you out.” “The most powerful thing you can do is to release your control and release your power and give your power away.” “The best leaders cultivate their humility, which is really hard to do as you advance up in the ranks. Whether it’s the military or if it’s a private sector, or public non-profit, the more senior you get, people are treating you a little differently up in the ranks.” “What you should be seeking is deep contentment and satisfaction. That comes with a different way of looking at life. It comes from balancing and this becomes the response.” “People never make good choices; they always have to learn from experience, right?” “So many people are in the leadership space and trying to teach leadership and it’s not easy. … If you are trying to understand leadership, how to be a better leader, and finding it not easy, your symptoms are normal.” “The people who are going to be happiest, in the long run, … look to find out how they can contribute as part of a bigger purpose with values that they share. … They’re going to persevere. They’re going to put in more than they take out. They're going to be contributors.” “Lifelong learning is key to your ability to succeed in a meaningful way where you’re meeting all of your objectives and you’re staying motivated. Otherwise, you lose the meaning of life if you don’t continue to focus on life-long learning.”   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by:

Stephen Drotter is Chairman of the Leadership Pipeline Institute and lead author of “The Leadership Pipeline.” Stephen has worked on succession planning and the related disciplines of organization design, executive assessment, and leadership development for over 50 years. He has helped over 100 companies in 37 countries with succession planning as a management discipline.    In his newest book, “Pipeline to the Future: Succession and Performance Planning for Small Business,” Stephen captures the learnings for meeting the challenges of small business. Steven explains the importance of the simplicity that comes on the other side of complexity. This episode is jam-packed with advice for leaders at all levels - an episode not to miss!     Key Takeaways [1:44] Jim tells about Stephen Drotter’s background, including his latest book, Pipeline to the Future: Succession and Performance Planning for Small Business, and welcomes him to the show. [2:46] Stephen likes to dig to the bottom of things and does not accept superficial responses or thinking. He goes for simplicity on the other side of complexity. He tells about firing companies and why he does it. He works with companies that want outcomes. Process matters but outcomes matter more! [4:56] A good leader creates leaders for succession planning. Stephen tells why it is hard for some companies. Many companies don’t choose to do the work for succession planning. Every position needs to be accounted for in the planning. [6:47] If you can’t produce a good first-line manager, you can’t produce a CEO. There’s a lot to know and a lot to do, and it’s a lot of work. That’s the complaint Stephen hears. Most executives work more with their numbers than they do with their people. [7:21] Managers are working at the wrong level. For example, promoting a top salesperson to a leadership position does not make the salesperson a good sales trainer. If sales numbers rise, it is misleading. The other salespeople aren’t developing if the first-line manager isn’t measured on leadership. Working at the wrong level is the most common problem Stephen sees. [9:19] Stephen tells how to pick leaders and measure their performance, not their sales figures. Leadership performance is about developing leaders under you. Is your team better this year than last year? A leader sets the direction. You need to provide leaders with what they need to be able to lead, including the knowledge of how the company is doing and where it’s going so they can support it. [11:19] Jack Welch liked to skip all the layers of management that he could and engage people at lower levels by going to their training courses at Crotonville and engaging the students directly.  A mechanism for communication is a huge piece of building leaders. [13:20] Are your criteria for picking leaders fair? First, distinguish between performance and potential. Judge potential by how people think and how they are viewed by their peers. What kinds of questions do they ask? If they ask questions at a higher level than their role, they must be thinking about it. Who are the people who think beyond today’s task? They’re the ones who become more efficient. [16:02] Stephen talks about the responsibility of the employee for development. The company has the key because they assign the jobs that will develop the employee. The employee has their interest, their questioning, their learning, and the way they complete assignments. Are they learning the business and the company or just their job? An employee has to be willing to stick their neck out and take some risk. [18:15] Stephen tells why he calls competency models nonsense. He says they are not relevant to the work. [20:42] Training should be differentiated by the student. Students at different management levels need different training. The training needs to apply to the company and what improvements are needed. [22:00] HR is not tuned in to what is needed at the business level; it focuses on the people, not the business. HR should be creating an agenda they use to drive the business. [24:47] Stephen tells about his passion for small business and why he wrote his latest book. He tells how he moved from large companies to consulting for large companies, to studying small companies for lenders. About 90% of Americans work for small companies. But nobody writes management resources for small companies. So Stephen wrote a book for them. [29:48] The management needs of small and large companies are surprisingly quite similar but how you meet the needs of small and large companies is remarkably different. Stephen gives an example and  He shares an anecdote from working with a big company. He offended the CEO! [35:13] Employees want to be fulfilled. Management wants production. Stephen shares thoughts on how people have changed. The important thing is to set goals and accomplish them. That’s what helps you succeed. [37:59] Stephen shares more about leadership pipelines; it’s how to run the business and set goals. He explains what the technology pipeline is. [42:00] Jan encourages listeners to listen to this conversation again and take notes. This topic is very different from the usual episodes. [42:38] Stephen shares his last thoughts. There are the workers, the communication patterns, and the work. Start with the work and the rest will make sense. All businesses have to compete.   Quotable Quotes “I like to dig down to the bottom of things. I have a hard time with superficial responses and superficial thinking, you know, the bumper-sticker-type leadership advice.” “There’s simplicity and then there’s complexity, and there’s simplicity on the other side of complexity. I go for that simplicity on the other side of complexity. And so, it’s time-consuming.” “Process matters but outcomes matter more.” “We’ve known how to do [succession planning] for 50 years, so there’s no longer an excuse. People just don’t want to do the work.” “Think of a pipeline that’s broken at the point where the pipeline goes into the material you’re going to pump. That very first piece is broken. What do you think’s going to come out the back? Nothing!” “Most succession systems are broken at the bottom. If you can’t produce a good first-line manager, you can’t produce a CEO. You’re going to have to get him someplace else. It’s not in the culture. People don’t understand that developing themselves and others is important.” “To work at the right level takes a lot of personal discipline to move away from the stuff that you like and into the stuff that you have to do.” “The top [level] needs to spend more time with the bottom [level]. That’s one of the very big, important disciplines.” “A mechanism for communication is a huge piece of building leaders.” “It’s not possible to define the potential for someone to go higher than you are.” “You may be entitled to a promotion because you earned it, but you’re not entitled to a promotion because you showed up today.” “When I started consulting, I stayed with big companies because they can pay..” “There’s such a thing as management risk. You have the wrong management structure and the wrong management people; you’re putting your business at serious risk.” “If you want to have development happen, pick a job you don't want, working for a boss who doesn't want you. There will be real development.”   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by:

Deepa Purushothaman is an author, speaker, leader, and Co-founder of nFormation. Deepa challenges and redefines the status quo of leadership, success, and power by centering on the needs and experiences of women of color. Deepa shares her journey from executive to thought leader and how her sabbatical to recover her health, combined with her study of policy led her to interview over 500 women of color in senior positions about the microaggressions and racism they have experienced in the corporate world. She gave them a voice in her book, The First, The Few, The Only: How Women of Color Redefine Power in Corporate America. She talks about her experiences teaching leaders to listen carefully to the women of color in their organizations to learn how work is not working for them, shares her suggestions to women of color on how to react to racist situations, and explains to executives how to talk about them when they occur. We are in a moment where people are open to uncomfortable conversations, and willing to change what should be changed. Deepa is excited for the work of the future where women of color will feel included and heard.     Key Takeaways [1:45] Jan shares Deepa Purushothaman’s background. After leaving Deloitte, Deepa co-founded nFormation, a membership-based community for professional women of color, helping place them in C-suites and on boards. Deepa’s first book, The First, The Few, The Only: How Women of Color Redefine Power in Corporate America, was published in March 2022 to international acclaim. [2:28] Jan welcomes Deepa to The Leadership Podcast. Deepa left corporate America during the pandemic, just before the Great Resignation. People told her she was crazy to leave a secure position. She says you leap sometimes and it just works out. [3:37] Deepa tells why she left the corporate world. She was done with her corporate career and needed a break. She wanted to do something around women of color. At the time, people thought COVID-19 would be just a couple of weeks. [5:03] Deepa spent 21 years in corporate roles at Deloitte. Toward the end of her career, she was very sick and spent eight months in bed. She started to see the importance of health and asked herself what place she wanted work to take in her life. She had a big value shift. [7:18] Deepa shares her tips for living a good life in a corporation. It takes very intentional work, protecting your time, and accepting that you may not rise fast in the company. [8:38] Before resigning, Deepa had taken an eight-month leave of absence for illness. After 15 doctors, she was diagnosed with late-stage Lyme disease. Eight months of unplugging from the system helped her see she could have a family and other things outside the firm. She figured out how she wanted to redesign her life and what she needed to recharge. Being able to do that was a gift. [11:18] Deepa had had a growing sense of purpose about policy — that was her major in school — and that, combined with her sick-leave sabbatical, gave her a new direction for her life. [13:08] Deepa found similarities between working at a large corporation and a small to medium business. She interviewed mainly VP-level and above. The women would say they had finally gotten to their seat of power and they didn’t feel powerful. A lot of the women of color Deepa interviewed talked about erasing or hiding parts of themselves to get to the table in any size of business. [14:02] Many women of color grew up as “onlies” and didn’t see themselves represented in the media or among leaders. So there’s a question of belonging and having to find your voice. We’re trying to figure out what leadership looks like for us because we don’t see it around us. [14:55] Deepa listed in her book twelve different challenges that women of color executives face. At the top of the list, it’s not seeing yourself represented and having to find your voice. The sense of “first, few, and only” is really different. There’s a deep sense of isolation. Deepa lists other differences that affect women of color more than anyone else, including chronic illnesses and the extra work they have to do. [18:19] One woman of color Deepa interviewed edits how she talks, dresses, styles her hair, and what she eats because she is the only woman of color in her company and her community, and she wants to present all black people in the best light possible. Executive women of color are asked to mentor many women of color because they are the only ones in their company or industry in senior positions. [22:08] Deepa interviewed Vernā Myers of Netflix, who told her how offputting airplane overhead storage compartments are for women with small children who might get hit with falling luggage. Deepa notes similarly that workplaces weren’t designed with all people in mind. The corporate model of the family, with one person working and the other raising children, has never been updated. [24:11] Many of the women of color in the book shared microaggressions that had been said to them. Deepa notes a few that were said to her two or three times daily. Some women were told they were “articulate” on a daily basis. It made them feel like they didn’t belong. No one heard people say to a white man that he was articulate. [26:16] About the Senate Panel Vote for Judge Ketanji Brown Jackson. Deepa has written an Op-Ed about it that drew a lot of attention. Despite being overqualified, her credentials were questioned. Most of the women Deepa interviewed said they had to be two or four times as good as their counterparts just to be credible or to get the opportunity. Judge Jackson had to smile through derogatory comments. [28:33] Deepa tells how she handled it when people asked her if she was in a meeting to take notes or pour the coffee when she was the senior person in the room. She contrasts that with how she would handle her feelings about the same situation today. [31:56] How does Deepa address systemic issues at a Fortune 100 company? She meets with an executive team and is very open and blunt. Some executives tell Deepa they have solved these problems, then Deepa speaks with Black and Brown employees and hears a list of challenges and concerns. Deepa talks with companies about starting on a journey that will take a while. [35:12] Deepa is optimistic that executives are listening differently and if we are to change how work works for everybody, now is the time. Deepa wants leaders to give themselves permission to try different things. None of us have been taught how to talk about race. Deepa talks in the book about things women of color can do when they face racist incidents. Practice and have statements ready. [36:38] Deepa also encourages white male leaders to practice dealing with incidents, such as saying, “That didn’t sit right,” “I’m afraid that probably didn’t land the same way for everybody,” or “Can we stop the meeting and talk about what just happened?” We all need to learn what to do about racism. Give yourself permission to try. It’s more important that you try than that you don’t do anything. [37:15] In the two years it took to write the book, the language has progressed so much in how we talk about these topics. The terms are changing. You’re not going to get it right every time. That’s OK; it’s more important to try and to give yourself grace. Deepa notes that the employee voice is on the rise and she wants people to be happy in their jobs. [39:45] Deepa talks about “the power of me,” and “the power of we.” In order to create change, it’s going to take other people. Deepa sees a lot of delusions about how work has to be. [41:02] Leaders should learn to know the values that women of color hold, such as community. Women of color tell Deepa they have negative feelings for the word “Power.” She asked Stacy Brown Philpot, CEO of TaskRabbit, about power and she suggested leadership and power could be about making people feel safe and that they can bring all of who they are to the table, with some boundaries and guardrails. [44:36] Deepa has learned through publishing this book that you have to be ready but you also have to trust that the universe will meet you where you are. She is also excited about the future and the possibility of the moment we are in. Change is possible if we band together and have hard conversations. If we are ever going to have a better world of work, it is now. [46:28] Deepa’s final thoughts: We all have power. We all have the ability to find our voice and some of this is about doing the hard work to figure out what’s important to you, and what your values are. How do you want to show up? How do you want to lead? Who do you want to be? When you know that, there are ways to change the places where you work. We have a lot more power than we realize.   Quotable Quotes “[When I left my career] I didn’t have a book deal. I didn’t have the company founded. There were a lot of questions around that, so …  It kind of speaks to my risk-taking. You leap sometimes and it just works out.” “I had a very visible job. I was known in a hundred-thousand-person organization by my first name. … When you make it relatively young, and you make it quickly … — I’d sacrificed a lot to get to that seat.” “I thought you could have success and health is important but it wasn’t top-of-mind. … I started to get really sick. …  Part of my journey was getting healthy; part of my journey was asking different questions. … What space do I want work to take up in my life.” “I interviewed over 500 women of color to write the book and so their stories are in there. … One of the statements that kept coming up over and over again is this pressure to conform, perform, and produce.” “You almost have to unplug for at least six months to even understand … what the values are and look in your life and see what makes you happy.” “I grew up in a very white, very small farm-country town where I was one of five students of color in a school of 500. So you’re always kind of wondering, ‘What’s different; where do I belong?’” “When I get that angry or that upset, I carry that for a long time. … I have research that suggests that we carry negative comments four times as long as a positive comment or a compliment. Those kinds of things really weigh on women and women of color.” “We have not created safety in companies. We have not created places where people are able to tell the truth and women of color can share everything that’s happening to them.” “There are a lot of challenges. Speaking with 500 women of color, … there is … a lot of trauma. I’m really optimistic because I feel like we’re in a moment where people are listening differently and that if we were ever going to change how work works for everybody, it’s now.” “I think we’re just in a moment where employee voice is on the rise. And so, if companies and leaders don’t start to pay attention to that, I think they’re missing something. … I want people to be happy in the jobs that they have. We spend more time working than we do with our spouses.”   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by:  

Ron Adner is the leading strategy thinker on the topic of business ecosystems. He is the author of The Wide Lens: What Successful Innovators See that Others Miss and a new book, Winning the Right Game: How to Disrupt, Defend, and Deliver in a Changing World. Ron shares important insights on the language of strategic alignment to help you navigate the new world of coalitions and ecosystems. If your new value proposition requires rewiring your relationships - you’re in an ecosystem where there is interdependence. It takes a new language to teach new strategies, and the rewards can be great. Listen in to see if you should be shifting your perspective.   Key Takeaways [2:10] Much of what Ron writes is on how to think about innovation and make sure you are doing the right work. He stresses efficient, effective action. [3:24] What kind of shifts will disrupt your ecosystem? Modern disruptions change the ecosystem, for example, making a change in how healthcare is delivered and changing the boundaries of industries. [7:11] The COVID-19 pandemic disrupted the work ecosystem. It’s a virus; it’s supposed to stay in its healthcare box. It broke through boundaries to affect international relations, trade, supply chains, and more. An ecosystem disruption requires an ecosystem response. Ron shares a link for listeners to read Chapter 1 of his book, for free, to learn about the challenge we are all facing. [10:45] In 95% of conversations where people use the word “ecosystem,” you could substitute the word “mishmash,” with no loss of meaning. Ron claims there is a lack of structured thinking about ecosystems. He shares a specific definition of ecosystem, and how it connects to whether or not your new value proposition requires rewiring relationships. [12:53] Hans Rosling wrote in Factfulness about the secondary and tertiary effects of the globally important decisions we make. Ron says people can’t confidently discuss third-order consequences. His work is built on the structure of interdependence; understanding the system that is implied by a value proposition. Think about the structure of the system that needs to come together for the proposition. [16:35] Ron believes that if we can think more broadly about the set of parties we are going to interact with, a lot of things become easier to see. It requires flexibility and true empathy for the counterparty’s position. [18:36] When writing his book, Ron discovered that the structure of interdependence is changing. It’s necessary to know what the changes are. In Jack Welch’s GE, it was clear what the industry was and easy to rank who was number one. Today, all sorts of parties are on the same game board playing different games. Choose the game you want to win! Winning the wrong game can feel a lot like losing. [21:05] Meeting the clients’ needs better than the competition was the traditional execution lens and it is still needed. But is that all that’s needed? Is your ability to deliver on that promise entirely within your capability set, or are you going to be relying on other parties and partners to do something to enable you to deliver, not your product or service, but the value proposition that you’re making? [22:50] Is it better to follow the traditional execution of the value proposition? It depends on whether you have easy access to the abilities and resources needed to deliver on that proposition. If not, you need an ecosystem of partners that can do something to enable you to deliver on the value proposition. And you need to put them on the same pedestal to maintain the value proposition. [23:45] Ron shares a case study from Michelin, and their run-flat tire. They didn’t invest enough in their service garage partners and the product collapsed. Critical partners are just as important to strategize for as your end consumers. [24:50] Jan cites Steve Justice, former program director for Lockheed Martin, saying, “You’ve got to stand in the future. And if people are laughing at you, you know you’re far enough out there, that you’re standing in the future.” [25:48] Ron suggests asking, “What do we need to get there?”, “Who do we need to get there?”, “How do you align them?” He explains the differences between a project and an ecosystem. In an ecosystem, your partners may not know that you’re planning to rely on them. In a project, everyone knows who the manager is. In an ecosystem, there is no hierarchy of authority. You rely on strategic alignment. [28:48] An ecosystem that’s functioning well is one that’s in balance. [29:42] Chapter 6 of Winning the Right Game is an attempt to understand what individual leadership means when you’re playing in the ecosystem game. There is a distinction between the execution mindset required to succeed in a setting where the leader puts his organization first, and the alignment mindset required to align different organizations into an ecosystem coalition, putting the coalition first. [33:27] Jim refers to Joseph Pine and James Gilmore’s concept of the experience economy, where the experience, not the service, is the greater value proposition. Ron talks about Amazon and Alexa’s value proposition for the smart home and how they surpassed Apple, Google, and Microsoft to lead in smart homes, and how Tesla surpassed GM in electric cars. [37:25] Some leaders can’t make the jump from leading others to leading the organization. Ron says there are different categories of leaders. We need execution people in industries. For others, building coalitions comes more naturally. Most of us are not at the top of the organization. Ron describes a mindset that is helpful for middle executives in choosing the projects they want to be in. [41:22] The language of strategy is inadequate for today’s tasks. Ron suggests using the chapters of Winning the Right Game to communicate what underlies your strategy. Use the new language of strategic alignment to educate the people below and above you in the organization. [46:04] Ron summarizes. Chunks of the world operate in an industry mindset. Chunks of the world are shifting toward an ecosystem situation. First, figure out what side of the world you are in. Use the industry toolbox for industry. If your opportunity relies on a new set of collaborators and a new mode of collaboration, use the new ecosystem strategic alignment toolbox. If you get it right, rewards are great. [50:02] Jim invites listeners to visit and closes with a Stanley A. McChrystal quote that leaders should be like gardeners, creating and maintaining a viable ecosystem in which the organization operates.   Quotable Quotes “The key in a difficult world is efficient, effective action.” “Classic disruption … was a study of identifying substitute threats while they were still off the radar. … All that disruption was really a technology substitution.” “When I talk about an ecosystem disruption, it’s this disruption that doesn’t change the technology within a given box. It changes the boundaries that used to define these boxes that we can think of as traditional industries. That, I think, is what we’re seeing, more and more.” “An ecosystem response is one where a coalition of actors is pulled together. ” “When I talk about an ecosystem, I have a very specific definition in mind. … It’s the structure through which partners interact to deliver a value proposition to an end consumer.” “The ecosystem, then, is anchored not in any given actor, not in a firm, but in a value proposition and the structure through which multiple partners interact.” “Whenever you have a value proposition that requires a rewiring of relationships, that’s when you’re moving into this ecosystem world, which, I will argue, requires a new strategy toolbox to draw from.” “When you have a new proposition that doesn’t require rewiring [relationships], you don't need to worry about this ecosystem stuff. You can go back toward traditional tools.” “Your challenge is not just winning but choosing the game you want to win. The threat, of course, is that you can win the wrong game, and winning the wrong game can feel a lot like losing.” “Can you execute in a traditional execution way, or do you need to rely on an ecosystem? Why do we see firms relying on partners? It’s because they don’t have easy access to the capabilities or the resources.” “How is it that great people are succeeding in one setting and being less successful in the other?” “In the real world, if you're in a room and you’re the only person with the right answer, you're totally useless. Your job is to get everybody else to the right answer, and that requires language.” “It’s not saying there’s a new world order or everything has changed. It’s saying some things have changed and perhaps you’re in a situation that might be different but it doesn’t mean everything is.”   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by:  

Dr. Joseph A. Allen has written more about meetings in the academic literature than anyone. He is a Professor of Industrial and Organizational Psychology at the University of Utah. On the show, he shares recent research that shows hybrid meetings are better than either in-person or virtual meetings. Dr. Allen shares his rules for effective meetings, whether in-person, virtual, or hybrid; and how to foster inclusivity and engagement. Do you know your people? Have you talked to them? What do they want? Encourage participation. … There are ideas out there that will solve the problems in our organizations. We just need to let our people share them.   Key Takeaways [2:01] Dr. Allen has written more on meetings in the academic literature than anybody else! [3:11] Having poor meetings is a problem in nearly every organization. [4:33] In the first week of  March 2020, Dr. Allen and his co-author Karin Reed predicted that video meetings and remote work would happen in five to 10 years. Instead, they started two weeks later in the COVID-19 pandemic shutdown! Web video cameras were hard to find by May! [6:13] Dr. Allen collected data in June 2021 for a study showing that face-to-face meetings before the pandemic weren’t great, virtual meetings were as good as face-to-face meetings, and hybrid meetings were better than either. If you make sure everyone is seen and heard, hybrid meetings can be the most inclusive type of meeting. If you don’t put the effort into it, they are challenging to do well. [8:15] Early adopters were running hybrid meetings that started on time, ended on time, and had an agenda and a purpose. They encouraged participation. They were following the best practices Dr. Allen had been preaching for years. If you do those best practices, you can have a good meeting in any format. [9:41] In virtual or hybrid meetings, there should be one camera for each participant. We can’t continue to set up conference rooms with the “bowling lane” approach. We need to work toward finding the best way to use multiple cameras and microphones. [11:18] If you don’t know how to facilitate a meeting based on the agenda, you will not hold a good meeting. Dr. Allen talks about the need for procedural communication, to interrupt a monologue and steer the conversation back to the objective. He also notes that most meeting leaders have a blindspot to their faults and think they do a better job of facilitating meetings than they do. [15:30] Dr. Allen says it is paramount to use your camera in a video meeting. If you want your voice to be heard, turning your camera on provides the additional input of facial expressions and gestures. Don’t turn off your camera so you can check your email. Be engaged. Leaders, run your meetings so participants need to be engaged, or you are giving them an out not to engage. [17:42] Who needs to be in the meeting? Part of planning for a meeting is selecting who needs to be invited. [18:21] Everybody doesn’t need to be invited to every meeting. They need time to do their regular work. With the pandemic and seven-step “commutes,” managers started filling commute time with more meetings. Sometimes sharing the meeting minutes is better than having everyone in the meeting. Or record the meeting and others can play it back at 2X speed. [20:5] Between choosing phone or video, you should hold a video meeting when you’re meeting someone that you’ve not worked with a lot. If you don’t see each other, someone might be confused over your meaning. [22:24] The more complex an issue, the more important it is to have a virtual environment that allows sharing charts as well as seeing each other. Phones are good tools for simple issues. [23:09] If you don’t know how people are going to react to what you throw out there, use the strongest communication modality you can. In-person or video is better than phone, email, or text to communicate a complex message. [24:13] Joe recommends a virtual commute, which is taking the time to get your brain ready to work, and after work, getting your brain ready to be home. You could listen to a podcast, a book, or the radio. You are giving your brain the natural cues to transition to the next environment with its activities.[26:23] It’s psychologically healthy to take breaks, reflect, and focus. Joe has a paper on meeting recovery under review at a journal. This is discussed in his book, Suddenly Hybrid. Humans need moments to be human. Without transition time, we start to burn out. Meeting recovery is a big issue. Make meetings 25 minutes or 50 minutes long so people can take a break before their next meeting! [31:09] The best practices for any meeting, in-person, hybrid, or virtual: Have an agenda, start on time, end on time, have a purpose, and describe the purpose at the beginning of the meeting. [31:40] The best practices unique to hybrid meetings: The leader sets ground rules, like calling people by name and asking them to participate; it’s OK if the answer is, I don’t have anything to add. That way, everybody gets a chance to be seen and heard on this. Set a ground rule that it’s not OK to turn the camera off and disengage. It’s up to the participants to help and participate. [32:54] Dr. Allen strongly recommends the leader rotate the location of the hybrid meeting, either office or a remote location. It reminds the leader how hard it is to participate remotely and how important it is to engage the remote participants. The leader should set the rule for the discussion part of the meeting that remotes chime in first before anyone in the room does. [33:57] It’s easy for the people in the room to create a tiered communication system, where the people in the room are primary and the people on video or audio are a secondary group. This derails the sense of team effectiveness. Rotate who speaks first among the remote participants; if you know your team, you know who will respond well to being called on first and share their thoughts briefly. [36:57] Gary Hamel, author of Humanocracy, has advocated for years that we stop managing people like Napoleon, command and control. Now managers are insisting we get back to work nine to five. Dan Price, CEO of Gravity Payments recently said, “If you get your work done, that’s all that matters.” [37:44] Surveys of workers show that some people want to work from home more and some people want to work from the office more. To retain your top talented folks, establish policies and procedures around hybrid work that allow people to work from home when they need to and work in the office when they need to. Add some required days where people come together and re-energize the team. [39:28] On days when you bring everybody in, have people collaborate. Why commute for an hour to sit in a box? Collaboration is skills-based. Leaders can read about it and implement it. It can be done even by people who are introverts because they know that collaboration on their team is important to their success. On all-hands days, have team meetings and things that cannot easily be done virtually. [41:40] CEOs, are you creating an environment for your leaders to learn how to do this really hard stuff that is leadership today? [43:01] One size does not fit all. Different teams have different requirements. Get to know your people and provide a sense of flexibility that might be a little more uncomfortable than you would like. If you don’t accommodate your people, you may lose them, even though they may find out the grass is not always greener over there. [47:20] Dr. Allen issues a challenge to the listeners: 51% of our meetings are rated as poor. The ways to improve meetings are not rocket science. Take stock of your meetings. Think about what would be the ideal situation. See what you may not be doing and try it. Encourage participation. There are ideas out there that will fix problems in our organizations. We just need to let our people share them.   Quotable Quotes “There isn’t actually a course in the management schools across the country that trains people on how to run effective meetings; why would we do effective meetings?” “Everybody had to figure out what was going to work for them in their environment.” “What we learned is that we can do this. We can meet remotely. We can make it work effectively.” “Early adopters are often those people who know how to make the Apple Watch work really well. Or they know how to pull things up on the screen that you don’t know how to do. They’re the people that take on technology and just embrace it.” “The meeting leader, who comes in with an agenda and a purpose, gets steamrolled by somebody … who just goes off on their favorite topic. … That leader needs to know that they can say, ‘Thank you for that comment. That’s meaningful. I’d like to get your thoughts on this.’” “You know that one bad meeting causes three more meetings! That is scientifically shown across a lot of different samples and a lot of data. It’s worth the effort to make the meetings better because it means we should have fewer meetings moving forward.” “[A ‘virtual commute’ is] that psychological and meaningful human transition from one thing to the next. And we need that transition time. Without it, we start to really burn out.” “It’s easy for those folks in the room to create a tiered system of communication, where the people in the room are the primary and the people that are not in the room, whether it be on video or audio, become a secondary group. That ... can derail the sense of ... ‘team.’” “[Collaboration] can be done even by people who are not the most collaborative or wanting to be. … Introverted people … learn how to do it, anyway, because they know that collaboration in their team is really important for the success of their team.” “It’s all about: Do you know your people? Have you talked to them? What do they want? And if you go against what they want, be prepared for the ramifications! Be prepared for the mass exodus that’s been happening in some organizations.” “Encourage participation. … There are ideas out there that will solve the problems in our organizations. We just need to let our people share them.”   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by:

Marlene Chism works with C-Suite leaders to build drama-free cultures that drive growth and reduce costly mistakes. She’s the author of four commercially-published books and a LinkedIn Learning instructor. Marlene shares simple ways to deal with conflict. Marlene advises using curiosity to learn more about the parties to the conflict, and explains the dangers for new leaders of being nice. She also shares leadership traits and the importance of being in alignment. And remember, willingness is the fulcrum point of change.   Key Takeaways [1:52] Marlene Chism loves to dance. Marlene suggests turning off his “thinking brain” to find his rhythm! [3:38] Marlene says we mismanage conflict with the three “A”s: Appeasement, Aggression, and Avoidance. When we think of conflict as a problem, we fear it. [4:05] Marlene has a new definition for conflict: Opposing Drives, Desires, and Demands. It’s not one person “out to get” another. People want different things for different reasons. When you take the personal aspects out of conflict and define it differently, your gut reaction to it changes. [4:34] Generally, we mismanage conflict because we have an inner conflict first. In other words, I might need to have a difficult conversation with you but I also want you to like me. I mismanage it because I have two opposing drives, desires, and demands within myself. [5:35] When is the right time to address potential conflict? Marlene says we have to get curious, and the sooner, the better. Good contracts create good relationships. Marlene offers ways to be direct and find clarity. Bring up questions earlier, rather than later. [6:55] Sometimes we imagine conflict where there is none. Are we negotiating with ourselves? Marlene suggests watching your narrative. Don’t believe everything that you think. Say, “I observed this; my perception is that.” That gives grace to the other person to clarify if they meant something else. Being assertive beats the alternative of making up a story and creating a bigger conflict than what was there. [8:29] Marlene says she takes a breath and thinks about whether she has all the facts to be sure she is right. If she’s feeling angry, she interprets it as that she needs more information. Marlene always asks “Are you willing to be wrong?” [10:19] Willingness is the fulcrum point of change. Nothing happens until there’s willingness. If I haven’t been willing, it means I’m in a state of resistance. [11:01] Marlene says drama is an obstacle to peace and prosperity. She uses the visual of a rowboat with a person in it going to an island. A shark between the boat and the island is the obstacle. When we’re in drama, we’re distracted. Marlene compares employee drama with top-level drama. CEOs who think they are above the drama are not hands-on and are keeping secrets from their team so they look competent. [13:24] If you’re not working toward a purpose; if you don’t have a shared vision, and if you don’t feel excited, that’s an obstacle. We all have to take responsibility for our engagement and desires. There is a symbiotic relationship between the employee and the company. [14:05] Marlene discusses her latest book, From Conflict to Courage. In the workplace, Marlene says courage is not taking the easy path; not taking the path of being perceived as “nice.” Marlene’s book sets up a framework of Conflict Capacity with three overlapping circles: Culture, Skillset, and Inner Game. The three together give you the ability to clarify conflicts. [16:18] Marlene says in the long run, aligning with your values and what you promised your customer is going to serve you. What is the point of being profitable if you are miserable because you don’t understand alignment? [17:26] Marlene defines leadership. It is alignment or focusing energy. Aligning everything in your business trumps opportunity. Opportunity can be a distraction and lead to drama. [18:32] If something is operating in harmony, it’s very efficient and very effective. Marlene says the owner wants to get to the treasure chest on the island, the leader wants everybody to row harder and faster, and the rower just wants a better seat cushion on the boat. A consultant has to look at all three perspectives. [19:52] In her latest book, Marlene writes about the price of being nice. She sees three identities of new leaders before they are oriented: Best Friend, Hands-off, or Hero. When we don’t align with the values of leadership, we try to align as "best friends." [21:35] We can be friendly; we should be kind and polite, but when we don’t understand our role as a leader, then it’s about being nice, which is about manipulating. We think that being nice is making people like us, so we avoid being direct because it feels bad to say “No.” We’re afraid of hurting people’s feelings, versus educating them on why prior decisions are not going to allow that new idea. [22:14] Peter Drucker, in his book, Concept of the Corporation, says that when front-line people give ideas and they don’t match, don’t look at it as if they’re stupid or they don’t get it. Look at it as they want to engage but they don’t understand how the business operates and how the different departments work together. We should educate them. We want people to grow, not to like us. [23:27] People will like you if you are fair with them. Work on having a relationship with people. You don’t need to conduct a personality assessment on your team to resolve conflicts. You need to spend time with them and talk honestly with them without posturing. [24:41] Feigning niceness but not wanting to develop a relationship, is not niceness. Some say the traits they have that distract are virtues. If people say that’s just the way I am, Marlene asks them “Is that who you want to be?” Do you want to be authentic to the childish parts of you, or do you want to be authentic to the future you, who is growing, evolving, apologizing and working on yourself? [26:23] With a clear definition of how you want to show up, that changes the game. Ask yourself, am I willing to stop rolling my eyes and interrupting? Am I willing to notice that habit, to be a better communicator? [27:01] What are some of the challenges of building relationships without being in the office? It’s an opportunity for those who want to be intentional about connection. Learn to be good in the office, on Zoom, on Teams, on the phone, and in text. Have a system because eventually, it will put you at the top. Be the one who follows through instead of ghosting. [28:22] You will never lose by deciding to be intentional about how you form relationships and how you treat other people.   [29:14] What if you’ve been a coworker, and were suddenly promoted to manage people who were your “best friends”? Marlene hopes the organization would help to onboard you into management, but it doesn’t happen very much. You’re going to take on a whole new identity. Don’t believe that the better you treat people, the more they’re going to do you favors. They will take advantage. It’s human nature. [30:09] Have a meeting with everyone, individually and in a group, to explain the new position and what it means. Marlene shares a script for being open and setting expectations from the beginning of the things that will change and how you will go forward. Generally, when expectations have not been set is the time Marlene is called in! You’ll have to start with a clean slate and own the part you played. [30:59] You cannot set a new boundary out of the blue. It will make people your enemies. Tell your observations. Acknowledge your part in it. Explain how it is affecting the operation. Set the new rule and say everyone will need to comply. It will require, when someone messes up, for you to enforce the consequence you said would happen. A boundary is not solid unless you keep the boundary. [32:48] Leadership clarity is about situational analysis and the outcome. Without those two points of reference, you cannot solve any problem at all. Identify what’s happening that shouldn’t be, what’s not happening that should be, how that affects your business, the two points of reference and the obstacles you think are in the way. Start with clarity. [33:58] Leadership identity is how you see yourself in relation to these issues. Leadership Identity drives everything but you can only be as effective as your ability to be clear. [35:01] Marlene recently had a clarification meeting with a new client. Just as they were about to sign the contract, the client wanted to add in a StrengthsFinder, as well. Marlene answered, yes, they could do that for an extra fee, but since we know the situation and the outcome, let’s see if we can uncover some of those issues that are creating a lack of clarity and resolve them with what we’ve agreed to do. [36:23] What can happen if a board member is hired by opportunity (deep pockets and good connections) instead of by alignment (having the same values)? Drama! Jim compares conservative and progressive values in corporations around DEI. Marlene encourages getting to know the other person and learning what it’s like to be in their shoes, whether or not you agree with them. Align with them. [40:05] The real problem is we’re saying, “Just like them” or “Not one of us.” We need to stop doing that. There’s room for all, we just have to be willing to build that capacity and to be a little bit uncomfortable with it. That’s what conflict capacity is about. Be willing to be wrong and be open. [41:17] The story you tell is the life you live. Whatever narrative you think or feel about yourself, is the source of your suffering. The good news is your story can also be the source of your “salvation.” You can shift your story and see other things that are equally true and explore that.[42:18] Marlene found that you can only coach a regulated person. If someone’s in their story and they're upset, all you can do is be a radical listener. You cannot coach someone that’s not self-regulated. Marlene loves that you can help a person shift their story, and create a new possibility. [43:09] How and why has Marlene changed her identity several times? Marlene was a blue-collar factory worker for 21 years. She wanted something more. She had to learn business practices the hard way because you don’t know what you don’t know. She first identified with being a professional speaker. As she became more aware of business practices, she realized she was not as good as she thought! [44:36] Going from a front-line worker to a supervisor gives you a new identity and it can be completely overwhelming if you haven’t believed, accepted, and felt that you are in that place. You have to feel it. [45:03] Marlene explains three life tragedies that occur mid-life: 1. I know I want something more but I don’t know what it is. 2. I know what it is but I don’t believe it’s possible. 3. I know what it is and it might be possible, but now I have to be willing. Willingness is the fulcrum point of change. In any tragedy, you don’t have clarity. You have to be willing to discover, develop, and deliver. Find your purpose. [47:55] If you’re stuck, confused, in drama, or conflict, clarity can change any situation. Marlene’s job is to hear the stories of the parties she coaches and help them get clear, and they will know the answer.   Quotable Quotes “We are all afraid of conflict … and so … we try to avoid it. I call it the three ‘A’s: Appeasing, Aggression, and Avoidance.” “Generally, we mismanage [conflict] because we have an inner conflict first.” “Watch your narrative. Don’t believe everything that you think.” “I could be right, but I might be wrong and there might be one missing piece. … If I’m feeling that angry, instead of interpreting it as I’ve got all the facts, that means, I’ve got to have more information … because that helps me to calm down.” “The question I always ask is, ‘Are you willing to be wrong?’ Or, ‘Am I willing to be wrong?’ Because nothing happens until there’s willingness. … Willingness is the fulcrum point of change.” “If I haven’t been willing, it means I’m in a state of resistance.” “In the long run, aligning with your values and what you promised your customer is what’s  going to serve you. … What is the point of being profitable and being successful if you are miserable because you don’t understand alignment?” “My definition for leadership is that if leadership is about anything, it’s about alignment and alignment is about focusing energy.” “The owner wants to get to the treasure chest on the island, the leader wants everybody to row harder and faster, and the rower just wants a better seat cushion on the boat. As a consultant … it’s about looking at all the perspectives.” “You will never lose by deciding to be intentional about how you form relationships and how you treat other people.” “If you’ve messed up for a while, which is generally where I come in, what you have to do is you have to start with a clean slate and you have to own the part you played. Because you cannot set a new boundary out of the blue. It will make people your enemy.” “If you care more about them understanding than you do about your boundary, that’s where you’re going to be a poor leader.” “Wherever there’s drama, there’s always a lack of clarity.” “That’s what conflict capacity is about, ‘I’m uncomfortable with your ideas and thoughts and it’s OK that I’m uncomfortable. I might change my mind if I’m willing to be wrong. And you might change yours if you’re willing to be open.’” “If you’re stuck or you’re confused, or you’re in drama or conflict, there’s something that I live by, and that’s: ‘Clarity can change any situation.’”   Resources Mentioned Sponsored by: Marlene’s new book: Marlene’s previous books: (Out of stock)