Killer Casting

📍Well look who took time out of his busy schedule coaching A-List actors like🤩 Bradley Cooper, Michelle Williams, Kerry Washington, Brad Pitt, Salma Hayek and Austin Butler to sit down with Lisa and talk about the craft of acting, 🎭 the Oscars 🏆and also the new edition of his book 📖 “Fine on Acting: A Vision of the Craft”, none other than legendary acting teacher Howard Fine!  Howard and Lisa gab about all kinds of things that are on their minds these days about process, technique, and elements that help make actors better at their art. Howard gives all kinds of nuggets of wisdom and shares stories about working with A-list actors on their award-winning performances.

You can get a copy of Howard’s book here. It is truly a must have resource for any actor or any acting teacher. https://amzn.to/4a2xOUN

Want to study with Howard or his master teachers? Check out his programs here: https://www.howardfine.com

#acting #actors #actingclass #actingcoach #oscarwinningperformance #hollywood #craftofacting #actingtechnique 

Sometimes Lisa needs to remind herself why she ever wanted to do casting in the first place and it is because of incredible casting directors like her mentor Emily Schweber 💕who exposed her to artists like the filmmaker Andrea Pallaoro. Both Emily and Andrea are her guests today to talk about a very special project. Lisa assisted Emily on casting Andrea’s first film the evocative award-winning “Medeas” starring Catalina Sandino Moreno…and now years later comes Andrea’s third film, also cast by Emily that is getting all kinds of acclaim, “Monica” starring Trace Lysette, Patricia Clarkson, (both giving 🏆Oscar worthy performances) Emily Browning, Josh Close and Adriana Barraza. 

🌸“Monica” is an intimate story of a woman who returns home to care for her dying mother. A mother who due to a terminal illness, the passage of time, and other factors, doesn’t recognize her own child. Or does she? It is a film so universal that many people can relate to it — the fractures that split up a family, abandonment, healing old wounds, coping with the end of life, finding your way back to your past…and yet the film also is a very very unique look of the journey of a very particular woman. 

Andrea’s filming style is extremely distinct in its nuance, pacing, and framing. You are not going to see a standard two-shot, or easy transitions between scenes. He lets the audience sit with the people in this world, in their silent thoughts, in their private moments, uninterrupted. 

Emily and Andrea tell Lisa about the challenges of casting “Monica” and how they want the audience to experience the film, its revelations and ultimately the redemption of the characters. 

You can find “Monica” on Hulu, AMC, and many other streaming platforms. 

Lisa woke up this morning realizing she is WAY behind on her Oscar nomination watching! Like, she has only seen “Barbie”. So to psych herself up to watch all the rest of these performances for all the Best Acting awards at least, Lisa sits down with Oscar savant Paul Sullivan, who has seen EVERY best picture nominee since 1943, to discuss the task she has ahead of her. Paul gives Lisa a little preview on what he thinks of all the films this year, and weighs in on all the performances (and he may or may not do a few impressions)…Paul also takes us down the rabbit hole of past Academy Award winners and compares them to this year’s hopefuls . (btw, humble brag, Lisa cast nominee Colman Domingo in a film years ago, so she is already rooting for him without seeing him in “Rustin” yet, is that wrong?). Will Lisa be able to set aside her existential angst about these award shows in general before the big ceremony? Tune in to our pre-game chat to find out. (Note, yes, you will hear the moment that their dog Eleanor knocks over a big flower pot in the yard and gets a snootful of mud, we didn’t have the energy to edit that out).  

She IS awake ! ... and so are we!  Well folks it is time for all one-eyed polar bears to make their way off to that ice cave for a big long snooze, because Issa, Jodie, Kali, Finn and team … including Fiona ( I gut coyotes and polish my rifles on New Year’s Eve for fun) Shaw are delivering us from the darkness of our wildest conspiracy theories, into the light (see what I did there?) of clarity. Well, maybe ...did this most watched season of True Detective of all time tie up all the loose ends flapping around the Ennis permafrost? Almost! Listen to Lisa and Dean break it all down for you.  But wait !  This week we are joined by fellow podcasters Sarah Callen and Jennifer Han. Like Lisa and Dean, Sarah and Jen have been recapping this series on THEIR fantastic podcast titled ‘TV & Us. Check them out here https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/tv-us/id1681955735 or wherever you get your pods. Your Dynamic Duo (squared) will dig into the finale like one of Qavvik's pups eating their reindeer kibble .. and reassemble it in one easy to digest TV dinner of explanatory goodness. I could go on here with the Shownotes (sez Dean) but why not just ‘go on’ on the pod ! Holy rolling oranges Batman ... to the Ice Cave ! 🎶 Nah nah nah nah  nah nah nah nah naaaaah ...

LINKS

TV &Us The podcast created by today’s guests Jennifer Han and Sarah Callen https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/tv-us/id1681955735 https://open.spotify.com/show/0dTz1JYqqoQ8S8UbcVFOVO?si=61329f4da3934c97

“Lawless,” a ProPublica Local Reporting Network project by the Anchorage Daily News that reveals how indigenous people in Alaska are denied public safety services, was awarded the Pulitzer Prize for National Reporting and Public Service https://www.propublica.org/series/lawless

Is this Navarro ? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3srZfRSUf0

Joel Montgrand’s own podcast on First Nations talent in tv and film  is called ‘Actors and Ancestors’  check it out here https://www.actorsandancestors.com/

Issa deconstructs the Finale episode https://slate.com/culture/2024/02/true-detective-season-4-night-country-finale-ending-explained.html?fbclid=IwAR1pc5s7SE-js62VcK1aLr2IUWKjTtCOXRL5gGp-w0BK6BtEEqmsXvHgXrg#lsthmfese5rflf1a92e

Screenrant ask: Is Wind River better than True Detective ? 😱 https://screenrant.com/true-detective-night-country-wind-river-movie-taylor-sheridan/

RECAPS https://www.esquire.com/entertainment/tv/a46820836/true-detective-season-4-ending-explained/

https://www.vulture.com/article/true-detective-night-country-recap-season-4-episode-6-part-6-finale.html

https://screenrant.com/true-detective-night-country-episode-6-finale-recap/#navarro-leaves-but-keeps-her-promise-to-danvers

https://www.slashfilm.com/1519971/true-detective-night-country-finale-spiral-reveal/

https://www.denofgeek.com/tv/true-detective-season-4-episode-6-finale-release-time-and-recap/

https://www.rollingstone.com/tv-movies/tv-movie-recaps/true-detective-night-country-episode-4-recap-otis-heiss-jodie-foster-john-hawkes-1234959256/

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/18/arts/television/true-detective-season-4-episode-6-recap-stories-are-stories.html

https://www.theringer.com/2024/2/18/24076909/true-detective-night-country-season-4-episode-6-finale-recap

Well that was unexpected ! Issa and crew certainly delivered a shock ending. Farewell Hank ... thanks for the cool tune on the way out. Lisa and Dean cover off on all the aspects you'd imagine ... and some you wont expect. Peter and Liz have worst New Year’s Eve ever (though it must be said, it was even worse for Hank and Heiss. We're still being kept in the dark (see what I did there?) about whether there truly is supernatural stuff going or are the visions just trauma associated with tke case and the unnatural eternal darkness.  Hank showed his true colours, but so did Kate and Connolly. Will they get their just deserts  Will Issa give us closure on the whole Holden/Jake backstory? All will be revealed ! Links

Great interview with John Hawkes. https://www.gq.com/story/true-detective-night-country-episode-5-john-hawkes-interview Recap away 

https://www.vulture.com/article/true-detective-recap-season-4-episode-5-part-5.html

https://screenrant.com/true-detective-night-country-story-recap-whats-going-on/

https://www.esquire.com/entertainment/tv/a46686629/true-detective-season-4-episode-5-recap/

https://collider.com/true-detective-season-4-episode-5-recap/

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/09/arts/television/true-detective-season-4-episode-5-recap.html

https://www.esquire.com/entertainment/tv/a46686629/true-detective-season-4-episode-5-recap/

https://www.avclub.com/true-detective-review-season-4-episode-5-part-5-1851235960

QUESTIONS:

Are Rose, Liz and Eve actually seeing these ghosts or is it a mental illness ?

Is it Danvers or Navarro that executes William Wheeler ?

Has Hank accepted his inner Catfish?

Will Liz and Ted find an even MORE uncomfortable ways to have sex ?

Where do all these tropical oranges come from in the Arctic tundra ?

Can Peter find even more ways to toast his marriage to the exceedingly patient Kayla?

Why is Ted’s motel room painted like a green screen ready for the next Avatar film ?

Since we are now at Christmas Day, can we officially rank Night Country alongside Die Hard as a Xmas movie ?

ANSWERS:

You want the truth ?  YOU CAN’T HANDLE THE TRUTH !

Okay, well, the truth is: How the hell do we know ?

That’s why it’s called a ‘mystery’. We’ll all have to keep watching for two more hours peoples.

Seeya later alligator for Episodes 5 and 6. L+D

LEAH MCKENDRICK - WRITER, DIRECTOR AND STAR OF THE NEW LIONSGATE MOVIE “SCRAMBLED”. 

One day you are an actress in Los Angeles, grinding away, trying to get that first TV co-star credit, fast forward through some bloody, sweaty and tearful years and BOOM you are STARRING in a feature film for Lionsgate that you WROTE and also DIRECTED. Please welcome my guest actor/director/writer Leah McKendrick whose new feature film “Scrambled” hits theaters this week. This movie is based on Leah’s true personal story of her journey freezing her eggs, a process that turned out to be scary and painful, but also wildly funny and full of absurd ironies as she (in her character of Nelly) faced some major milestones in her life. Leah shares what it took to get her script on the screen, the twists and turns she’s had as a Hollywood studio writer and how she has finally found artistic freedom.  "Scrambled" also stars Andrew Santino (I’m Dying Up Here), Ego Nwodim (Saturday Night Live), Laura Ceron (ER), and Clancy Brown (The Shawshank Redemption) as well as other very special cameos. Get out there, take your gal pals, you guy pals, your gramma, your mamma and your sisters and go see this wonderful film. 

Check out the trailer here!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZ3T3Yr6B54

Lisa and Dean delve into the depths and profundity ofTrue Detective: Night Episode 3.

How is Kali Reis in her third only role SMASHING it, up against the legend that is Jodie Foster ?

Peter wants to know ‘Who is Mrs. Robinson ?” (Snicker)

WT ACTUAL  F is going on with Liz and Eve at William Wheeler's crummy, homicidal shack ?

When Navarro slips on the ice and has a vision of Liz’s son Holden, why is he reversed/flipped horizontally ? 

Why …. Oh FMD … too many questions and not enough answers! Tune in to get our take on what we think so far.

Credit to the following;

BrainPilot https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyb8SPoZHFU

https://www.vulture.com/article/true-detective-recap-season-4-episode-3-part-3.html

https://www.rollingstone.com/tv-movies/tv-movie-recaps/true-detective-night-country-episode-3-recap-jodie-foster-kali-reis-issa-lopez-1234953858/

https://www.esquire.com/entertainment/tv/a46553371/true-detective-season-4-episode-3-recap/

Pete Peppers YT recap (the best !) 

https://youtu.be/5yeyJ4jT6wM?si=ixXDk5ObhFMpsskf

Think Story https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0vU8pOU1AI

https://collider.com/true-detective-season-4-episode-3-recap/

Sedna Mythology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sedna_(mythology)

Oranges in The Godfather as a harbinger of death https://movies.stackexchange.com/questions/67749/were-oranges-an-intentional-use-of-symbolism-by-filmmakers/67756#67756 

We all know how much Dean likes to run his mouth and be a smarty pants, especially with all the minutiae that he jazzes on joining dots hither and yon.

There was SO much to unpack in Episode 2 that even though we spent an hour with the legend Joel Montgrand, we still couldn’t cover all the twists and turns in that episode. 

So if you don’t dig the digging deep, give this one a miss. But of you like getting down and dirty (or frosty) with all the easy-to-miss connections and fan theories looking ahead … then dive in !

Let us know what you think and ask Dean followup questions on our True Detective: Night Country Fan page on the Book of Faces here https://www.facebook.com/groups/3518353335092244

Episode 3 Preview/Trailer  https://youtu.be/st_dixIqonc?si=Wz0Ow4kEH_yt92YQ 

REPEAT OF LINKS FROM PREVIOUS EPISODE

Joel’s own podcast on First Nations talent in tv and film  is called ‘Actors and Ancestors’  check it out here https://www.actorsandancestors.com/

Here’s a terrific interview with Jodie Foster and Showrunner Issa Lopez https://www.gamesradar.com/true-dectective-night-country-interview-exclusive-jodie-foster/ 

All about Kali Reis the astounding actress playing Evangeline Navarro https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kali_Reis

A wonderfully readable article on the locations used in this seasonhttps://www.housebeautiful.com/lifestyle/entertainment/a46439515/true-detective-night-country-filming-locations/

Here’s a Buch of RECAPS from the likes of vulture, NYT, Variety and more …

https://www.vulture.com/article/true-detective-recap-season-4-episode-2.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/21/arts/television/true-detective-recap-episode-2.html

https://www.theringer.com/2024/1/21/24046238/true-detective-night-country-season-4-episode-2-recap

https://screenrant.com/true-detective-night-country-episode-2-recap-story-reveals/#the-researchers-have-spirals-on-their-foreheads

https://www.esquire.com/entertainment/tv/a46410144/true-detective-premiere-recap-season-4-episode-2/

https://variety.com/2024/tv/news/true-detective-night-country-episode-2-recap-spoilers-questions-theories-1235880441/

A brilliant resource called TuneFind which lists all the music used in tv and film and most importantly WHERE it occurs in the show !  https://www.tunefind.com/show/true-detective/season-4/246030  

All about The Tuttle Cult as er Season 1 … and now introduced to this Season 4 https://true-detective.fandom.com/wiki/Tuttle_Cult

Horrific true life inspiration for the ‘Corpsicle’ of scientists from Tsalal. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyatlov_Pass_incident

And finally the IMDB page for Night Country with the complete cast list for this season, in case you need to remind yourself who is who … lord knows we do !

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt29314270/fullcredits/?ref_=tt_cl_sm

You knew that Lisa and Dean were already VERY excited about True Detective: Night Country  … but today that excitement was ramped up to level infinity because we are joined in the pod today by one of those actors who despite their role being nominally a recurring co-star, they simply steal your eyeballs in every scene they are in.

And don’t take our word for it … after his filming was finished and he was back Stateside, Showrunner Issa López thought so much of his performance that she wrote extra dialogue for him and flew him back for more filming.

Today, we are talking about the amazing actor Joel Montgrand !  Better known to viewers as Qavvik, Navarro’s hunky, convenient, sex toy and proprietor of the  local brewhouse called … err … Qavvik’s.

Joel covers his scarcely believable  path to acting, his background as a proud Cree man from Saskatchewan and we dive into his  experience on this season with some cool stories of his time in Iceland for principal filming. That’s right folks, it was shot in Iceland not Alaska !  Wanna know why ?  Just listen along to find out.

And when you are done with all that ear candy from Navvaro's eye candy, then (like Eddie Murphy in Beverly Hills Cop) you can go deep, deep DEEP! undercover … with the extensive links below: OK, deep breath … and away we go:

Joel’s own podcast on First Nations talent in tv and film  is called ‘Actors and Ancestors’  check it out here https://www.actorsandancestors.com/

Here’s a terrific interview with Jodie Foster and Showrunner Issa Lopez https://www.gamesradar.com/true-dectective-night-country-interview-exclusive-jodie-foster/ 

All about Kali Reis the astounding actress playing Evangeline Navarro https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kali_Reis

A wonderfully readable article on the locations used in this season https://www.housebeautiful.com/lifestyle/entertainment/a46439515/true-detective-night-country-filming-locations/

Here’s a Buch of RECAPS from the likes of vulture, NYT, Variety and more … https://www.vulture.com/article/true-detective-recap-season-4-episode-2.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/21/arts/television/true-detective-recap-episode-2.html

https://www.theringer.com/2024/1/21/24046238/true-detective-night-country-season-4-episode-2-recap

https://screenrant.com/true-detective-night-country-episode-2-recap-story-reveals/#the-researchers-have-spirals-on-their-foreheads

https://www.esquire.com/entertainment/tv/a46410144/true-detective-premiere-recap-season-4-episode-2/

https://variety.com/2024/tv/news/true-detective-night-country-episode-2-recap-spoilers-questions-theories-1235880441/

A brilliant resource called TuneFind which lists all the music used in tv and film and most importantly WHERE it occurs in the show ! https://www.tunefind.com/show/true-detective/season-4/246030  

All about The Tuttle Cult as er Season 1 … and now introduced to this Season 4 https://true-detective.fandom.com/wiki/Tuttle_Cult

Horrific true life inspiration for the ‘Corpsicle’ of scientists from Tsalal. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyatlov_Pass_incident

And finally the IMDB page for Night Country with the complete cast list for this season, in case you need to remind yourself who is who … lord knows we do !

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt29314270/fullcredits/?ref_=tt_cl_sm

 Aaaaaaaand that’s a wrap folks !

To breakdown the operatic finale of Fargo Season 5, Lisa and Dean are ecstatic to be joined by the man, the myth, the legend himself, renowned acting coach/teacher Terry Knickerbocker.

From his incredible Brooklyn based studio, Terry has worked with actors from beginners, all the way to Hollywood A-Listers such as; Chris Messina (Newsroom, I Care A Lot, The Mindy Project), Oscar Winner Sam Rockwell (Moon, Three Billboards Outside Ebbing, Missouri, Seven Psychopaths), Abbie Cornish (Somersault, Sucker Punch, Jack Ryan) Yul Vasquez (Severance, Magic City, Whitehouse Plumbers) Gretchen Mol (Boardwalk Empire, Life on Mars, Manchester By the Sea) and so many others. 

Lisa, Terry and Dean wrap up this wild season by discussing the overarching main themes, the fate of various characters, the performances of this stellar cast and where this season sits in terms of the Fargo universe. Join us! Subscribe and please take a moment to leave us a 5 star review wherever you get your pods.

You can learn more about Terry here 

https://terryknickerbockerstudio.com

Here are some recap/breakdown links to further your Fargoddiction for rounding out this excellent Season Five.

https://www.vulture.com/article/fargo-finale-recap-season-5-episode-10-bisquik.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/16/arts/television/fargo-recap-season-5-finale.html 

https://tvline.com/recaps/fargo-recap-season-5-finale-episode-10-ending-explained-1235113875/

https://www.avclub.com/fargo-season-5-finale-review-bisquik-1851169777

https://www.rollingstone.com/tv-movies/tv-movie-recaps/fargo-season-5-finale-fx-jon-hamm-maga-sheriff-juno-temple-noah-hawley-1234947475/

Lace your snow boots up nice and tight, snuggle into that down parka  and scrunch your hat on good and proper because Lisa and Dean are leading you into their recap of the first episode of the much awaited fourth season of True Detective. After three series by Nic Pizzolatto, new Showrunner Issa Lopez has some big boots to fill ... can she do it?  What sensibilities will her esoteric Guillermo del Toro-esque magical realism and horror bring to the table and will it resonate with viewers like Season One ... or puzzle and frustrate as Series Two and Three did for some viewers ? Season One famously had Rust and Marty as the primary investigators,  Seasons Two and Three were mixed. Here in Season Four we have two very strong female leads in Jodie Foster and the astounding Kali Reis. What will they make of it ?  A fist ?  Or a dog's breakfast ?

So many questions !  Listen in for the answers. LINKS Recaps referenced:

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2024/jan/15/true-detective-night-country-review-a-blazing-jodie-foster-makes-this-show-better-than-ever-before 

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/14/arts/television/true-detective-recap-season-4-episode-1.html

Vulture'True Detective' Premiere Recap, Season 4, Episode 16 hours ago

Collider'True Detective Night Country' Episode 1 Recap — "She's Awake"6 hours ago Trailer for Issa Lopez's most recent film 'Tigers Are Not Afraid'. WATCH IT ! https://youtu.be/KyoE0mSJXO8?si=3c5cIBfgeNQ_x55b

Need to kill an entire weekend by going down more rabbit holes than Alice and a White Rabbit ? Lose yourself in hypertext land with the whole 'King in Yellow' thing here 

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2014/feb/26/king-in-yellow-true-detectives-hbo-weird-fiction

Lisa is thrilled to be joined by three wonderful actors who you need to know about! Carey Cox recurs on “The Handmaid’s Tale” as Rose Blaine, Joseph Kibler has acted on shows like “Criminal Minds” “Good Trouble” “Chicago Med” and Leah Rachel is model, dancer, actress  performing all over London on both stage and screen. What do these three artists have in common? In addition to being talented, they are all performers with disabilities and advocates in their own unique capacities. Carey, Joseph and Leah have so much to share with us, not just about their career challenges but also about their wins and their view of the  changing landscape of visibility, accessibility and inclusion for performers. 

Joseph’s YouTube channel

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_wSQDC60FRxjUxdrjGRHVA

Joseph’s Insta 

https://www.instagram.com/josephakibler/

TikTok - Josephakible

Joseph Kibler’s blog - www.fancywalker.blog

Carey’s Insta

https://www.instagram.com/careyleighcox/?hl=en

Leah’s Insta

https://www.instagram.com/leahrachel99/

Leah’s other Socials

@LeahRachel99

Website:

https://www.leahrachelcaplan.com

Leah Rachel is an Access Coordinator, Disabled Actress, and a Medical Ethics Researcher currently based in the UK

Carey Cox is a New York based actor.  Originally from El Paso, TX, Carey has a BFA in Musical Theater from Santa Fe University of Art and Design, and an MFA in Acting from UNC Chapel Hill. Carey has performed on Broadway, Off-Broadway, and in regional theater.  She was a writer and performer for the 2022 Viacom/CBS Diversity Showcase, and she plays Rose Blaine on The Handmaids Tale.  She also stars in the upcoming Indie feature Where Did the Adults Go?.  Other passions include visual art, playwrighting, stand-up, singing, guitar, and volunteering.  Carey has Ehlers Danlos Syndrome and advocates for disability inclusion.  She has three cats and one dog with her husband Joe.

Joseph Kibler is a born disabled and HIV positive actor/writer/content creator living in New York, NY. Joseph has appeared on shows such as Chicago Med, Good Trouble, Criminal Minds and CSI Cyber along with several National commercials from brands like Wells Fargo, Toyota, National Association of Realtors & United Healthcare.  He was a long time member of Upright Citizen Brigade as an improviser & sketch comedy writer and was on the MessHall Team Fetch. Joseph has also produced and was the subject of an Award Winning Documentary called Walk On. Walk On follows Joseph's journey training to walk 6 miles in the LA AIDS Walk.  It was produced by Alfred Molina, Emma Thompson, Hugh Jackman, Steve & Nancy Carell and won best documentary at Burbank International Film Festival & Timecode: NOLA. Alongside his HIV & Disability activism and writing his own spec films/tv shows, he enjoys his days with his spouse, Carey Cox and their four senior pets. 

Here is the rundown:

01:29 The Reality of Being a Disabled Actor

02:29 The Importance of Authentic Representation

07:23 The Struggle for Equal Opportunities

09:52 The Isolation of Disabled Actors

12:57 The Role of an Access Coordinator

15:35 The Challenges of Accessibility on Set

27:48 Carey's Character in The Handmaid's Tale

29:58 Character Research and Backstory

30:27 Wheelchair Barbie

31:47 Impact of Representation on Younger Generations

32:28 The Struggle for Representation in Children's Media

35:49 Overcoming Challenges and Embracing Disability in Performance

37:04 The Importance of Representation and Accessibility in Media

40:49 The Need for Disabled Creatives in the Industry

55:00 Future Projects and Hopes for Increased Representation

Here we are in the penultimate episode of the season and the forces are amassing for the big showdown. Tillman’s lost his mojo and maybe his mind as all the chess pieces make their final moves. Lisa and Dean break it all down. One of us thinks the tension is delicious, one of us thinks the episode may have lost the plot in some key moments.  Join us for the conversation. Subscribe and share! Please leave us a 5 star review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen. 

#tvrecap #podcast #actors #acting #directors #directing #wardrobe #wallpaper #screenwriting #streaming #casting #castingdirectors #jonhamm #junotemple #noahhawley #hulu #fx #joekeery #davidrysdahl  #lamornemorris #jenniferjasonleigh #richamoorjani #davefoley  #Fargo 

FARGO SEASON 5 - EPISODE 8 “Blanket” Recap

TRIGGER WARNING: Due to the graphic depiction of domestic violence and coercive control in Episode 8, our discussion contains equally graphic descriptions that may be upsetting. Please exercise caution when listening. 

Lisa and Dean react to this traumatizing and powerful episode which delivers the confrontation we all knew was coming: a death match showdown between Dot and Tillman. As Tillman’s obsession with Dot increases, so does her desperation to escape his control. We analyze Tillman’s malevolence and the amazing writing of this character. We also breakdown the metaphor of Dot being chained in the barn which symbolizes so tragically the literal chains that many victims of domestic abuse carry with them, no matter how far away they get from the abuser. Can a survivor ever really be free of these binds, psychologically, spiritually free? We certainly hope so for Dot's sake. Lisa and Dean also shout out Lamorne Morris’ portrayal of good Trooper Witt Farr, whose decency and depth elevate the show. Join us for so much more discussion on this complex episode. Subscribe and leave us a review wherever you listen. 

Here is the Run Down:

01:51 Upcoming Special Guests and Future Podcast Plans

03:38 Discussion on Podcast Rankings and Reviews

05:08 Analysis of Fargo Episode 8

09:49 Discussion on Domestic Abuse and Power Dynamics

17:43 Indira's Discovery

32:25 Dot's Escape Attempt and MacGyver Skills

32:51 The Debate and the Mockery of Tillman

33:51 Tillman's Humiliation and Loss of Control

34:39 The Strategy Against Tillman and Its Consequences

36:08 Dot and Gator's Emotional Exchange

37:17 The Reality of Dot's Dream and Gator's Transformation

42:50 The Fate of Danish Graves

58:00 Dot's Hopelessness and the Bleak Ending of Episode 

#tvrecap #podcast #actors #acting #directors #directing #wardrobe #wallpaper #screenwriting #streaming #casting #castingdirectors #jonhamm #junotemple #noahhawley #hulu #fx #joekeery #davidrysdahl  #lamornemorris #jenniferjasonleigh #richamoorjani #davefoley  #Fargo #DomesticAbuse #CoerciveControl #Murder #TV #Series 

Just in the St. Nick of time! Whilst we are still enjoying our “twixtmas” haze on the couch lounging around scrolling for something fun to watch with family and friends before the New Year is upon us and we are back from holiday break (if you were lucky enough to have one!) here is THE DEAN’S LIST of holiday movies to enjoy before all is said and done.

Dean has listed from “Nice” to “Naughty” his recommendations of Christmas movies to watch, starting with his favorite classics, moving to the the “middle” era of holiday fare, on through some worthy Christmas musicals to be on the look out for as well as “Christmas ADJACENT” films set at the holiday time, wrapping up with some truly dark and twisty takes on Santa. Add these to your queues and enjoy. 

#classicchristmas #Christmasmovies #Holidayfilms 

Life is a dream, well at least for Dot much of this episode IS which causes Lisa and Dean to have MANY thoughts about the story telling conventions that Fargo Season 5, Episode 7 is putting us through. We are on the road with Dot (Juno Temple) as she desperately searches for the one person she thinks can help her stop Sheriff Tillman (Jon Hamm) , that being his first wife, the mysterious Linda. (Kari Matchett) We’ve been speculating all season, where is Linda? What happened to her? Is she dead? Is she also hiding under a false identity with a new family? Or is she a sensibly dressed, pseudo cult leader-therapist of an all female domestic abuse survivor commune living in an alternate Linda-verse? Join us as we discuss all the revelations in this topsy turvey ep. 

Want to talk about this ep? Follow us on Insta @killercastingpodcast or on our Facebook Page Killer Casting

 KILLER CASTING is proud to support “WE AUDITION” the incredible website and app for professional actors to help them find a self tape reader ON DEMAND. A tool that no actor should be without. No more asking your mom or your roommate to read with you for your auditions. On We Audition, there are readers available 24/7. All around the world, whenever you need them. So you could pick the right reader for the genre or the type of role (age, gender, accent) you're reading for. And it's so simple. You just click onto the website or the app, select the reader that you want to use, and they'll come right up on video chat. This is a company run by actors, for actors. Right now Killer Casting pod listeners can get a 25% off discount code. Just use the code word “Killer” when you sign up at https://www.weaudition.com Here’s the Run Down: 01:53 Introduction to Episode 7 03:01 Discussion on the Episode's Plot 03:04 Analysis of Key Scenes 05:15 Exploring the Episode's Homages to Original Movie 05:38 Exploration of Easter Eggs and Symbolism 12:11 Exploring the Episode's Musical Choices 21:12 Discussion on the Episode's Dream Sequence 26:09 Handmaid's Tale Comparison 27:06 The Matriarchy of the Patriarchy 28:11 The Cult of Lindas 29:46 Wayne and Scotty's Heartbreaking Scene 33:06 Gator's Preparation for Revenge 37:22 Dot's Puppet Show: A Disturbing Backstory 46:35 The Truck Accident and the Return to Reality 49:10 The Aftermath and Predictions for the Future

AGENT JOAQUIN is in the house! Joining Lisa to breakdown Fargo Season 5 Episode 6 “The Tender Trap” is none other than actor Nick Gomez who recurs as FBI Agent Joaquin this season and who got a front row seat up close and personal in the Jon Hamm in the Hot tub scene. Before we dive into this episode, Lisa talks about casting Nick on Criminal Minds as a Detective and the behind the scenes process. Nick then reveals how he landed Fargo and his first day on set as well as giving us his unique insights on the series.  Nick and Lisa analyze the shifting power plays in this week’s episode, the revelations and the deepening relationships between all of these incredible characters. Oh and Lisa floats the Wizard of Oz theory past Nick. Join us, subscribe and be sure to leave us a review. 

You can follow Lisa on Insta @lisazambetticasting and weigh in on what you thought about Fargo’s Ep 6.

KILLER CASTING is proud to support “WE AUDITION” the incredible website and app for professional actors to help them find a self tape reader ON DEMAND.  A tool that no actor should be without. No more asking your mom or your roommate to read with you for your auditions. On We Audition,  there are readers available 24/7. All around the world, whenever you need them. So you could pick the right reader for the genre or the type of role (age, gender, accent) you're reading for.  And it's so simple. You just click onto the website or the app, select the reader that you want to use, and they'll come right up on video chat. This is a company run by actors, for actors. Right now Killer Casting pod listeners can get a 25% off discount code. Just take a listen to today’s ep (at minute 18.36) and hear the special code for 25% off. Check out “We Audition” at https://www.weaudition.com

Here’s the Rundown:

01:45 Nick's Audition Experiences

06:06 Nick's Role in Fargo

10:58 Nick's First Day on Set

19:37 Discussion on Episode Six

23:42 The Dynamics of Deputy Olmstead's Marriage

24:12 Deeper Dive into Characters' Personalities

25:52 Exploring the Scene with Sheriff Tillman

26:58 Analyzing Wardrobe Choices

27:33 Exploring the Scene with Wayne

28:03 Sheriff Tillman's Increasing Violence

28:41 Analysis of the Scene with Gator

30:46 The Wizard of Oz Theory

32:12 The FBI Agents' Interrogation

36:34 Sheriff Tillman's Deal with Ole

39:47 Discussion on the Scene with Lorraine and Deputy Indira

43:37 The Final Scene at the Strip Club

45:03 Thoughts and Future Expectations

("The Tiger" aka The Power Suit Episode)

Helping them cover Fargo Season 5, Episode 5, Lisa & Dean are thrilled to be joined by special guest Scott Winant, a two-time Emmy award-winning director and producer who has worked on high-profile shows like Breaking Bad, True Blood, Yellowjackets and …Season 1 of FARGO! (How many people get to say they’ve directed Key and Peele as FBI Agents? Well Scott has!) Scott shares his unique insights on the Fargo series given his former director of photography was none other than Dana Gonzalez who directed this week’s episode “The Tiger”.  As usual, we dissect the cinematic choices, the wardrobe (Lorraine and her intricate power suits), the unfolding origami of the story and the showdown between our two favorite villains. 

We also take a moment to remember the wonderful actor André Braugher who sadly we lost this week. Scott directed him in the pilot of “Men of a Certain Age” and shares his remembrance of this powerful performer. 

KILLER CASTING is proud to support “WE AUDITION” the incredible website/app for professional actors to help them find a self tape reader ON DEMAND.  It is a tool that no actor should be without. No more asking your mom or your roommate to read with you for your auditions. On We Audition,  there are readers available 24/7. All around the world, whenever you need them. So you can pick the right reader (age, gender, accent) for the genre or the type of role you're reading for.  And it's so simple. You just click onto the website or the app, select the reader that you want to use, and they'll come right up on video chat. This is a company run by actors, for actors. Right now Killer Casting pod listeners can get a 25% off discount code. Just take a listen to today’s ep (at 23.54) and hear the special code for 25% off. Check out “We Audition” at https://www.weaudition.com

#Fargo #FX #Hulu #Recap  #JunoTemple #JenniferJasonLeigh #JonHamm #NoahHawley #DavidRysdahl #DaveFoley #RichaMoorjani #JoeKeery #LukasGage #WizardofOz 

The Rundown:

01:13 Discussion on Scott Winant’s Career and Projects 02:17 Scott's Insights on the Changing Industry 02:55 Scott's Family Background in the Film Industry 03:59 Remembering Andre Braugher and Discussing 'Men of a Certain Age' 06:53 Scott's Experience Directing 'Fargo' Season 1 15:14 Discussion on Character Wardrobe and Set Design 21:21 Discussing Juno Temple’s “Dot” Character 21:40 Lorraine’s Ambition and Power 23:54 “We Audition” Advertisement 24:55 Anticipating Lorraine and Sheriff Tillman's Confrontation 27:18 Lorraine's Meeting with Deputy Olmsted 28:40 Dot's Protective Instincts 28:47 The Wizard of Oz Theory 29:56 Dot's Relationship with Wayne 32:15 Dot's Escape and Deputy Indira's Dilemma 36:09 Final Thoughts on the Episode

Hosts Lisa Zambetti and Dean Laffan dive into 'Insolubilia’. Dot’s confrontation with Gator goes down pretty much as expected, but how is she going to explain her way out of a burned down house, an electrocuted husband and a pesky State Trooper who is convinced she is the gas station ninja angel who saved his life? And how did she get Wayne and Scotty to go up into the attic in the first place? Lisa and Dean pick it all apart including the significance of all the Nightmare Before Christmas symbology. Cue the disastrous consequences of trying to become something you are not and desperately trying to change the world into what you want it to be. Will Dot’s philosophy she imparts to her daughter Scotty work?: basically “If we can’t see the bad guys, they can’t see us? If we don’t talk about them, they don’t exist? ” And Lisa has to shout out the extraordinary work of David Rysdahl’s “Wayne” who’s layered sweet, sad vulnerability as the hapless husband gives this hard candy show the soft center it doesn’t want to need. Join us! 

#jonhamm #junotemple #noahhawley #hulu #fx #joekeery #davidrysdahl  #lamornemorris #jenniferjasonleigh #richamoorjani #davefoley  #Fargo #NightmareBeforeChristmas #Halloween 

00:35 Discussing the Episode Title

06:28 Discussion on the House Invasion Scene

15:06 Sheriff Roy Tillman's Monologue

17:51 Dot's Philosophy and Survival Strategy

19:33 State Trooper Wit's Investigation

20:22 Analyzing Film Techniques

20:41 Character Analysis: Lorraine Lyon

21:19 Exploring the Use of Audio and Video Overlap

22:01 The Power Dynamics in the Show

22:28 Lorraine's Reaction to Family Crisis

22:57 Hospital Scene Analysis

24:49 Dot's Manipulation and Gaslighting

28:07 FBI Investigation into Sheriff Tillman

37:36 Sheriff Tillman's Visit and Confrontation

41:42 Final Thoughts and Predictions

KILLER CASTING is proud to support The Hollywood Winner’s Circle, a fantastic Business Academy for Actors founded by manager and acting coach Wendy Alane Wright. If you are just starting out as an actor and are unsure where to turn, HWC will give you concrete steps and a support system toward a future as a professional. You can find out more here:

https://hollywoodwinnerscircle.com

Cheese Puffs, a 44 Magnum and The Yellow Sweater

Before we delve into the third episode of Fargo Season 5 first we side bar into a review of the latest David Fincher movie “The Killer” starring a very enigmatic Michael Fassbender playing a rather bungling hired assassin. Then we get on to analyzing this (in Dean’s words) audacious episode 3 where wagons start to circle around our brave heroine Dot and her family. When your grocery list includes juice boxes, cheese puffs and shotguns, you know things are about to pop off. Lisa also has some good wallpaper talk and the gives a special shout out to some excellent sweater work by Dot’s yellow cardigan.

#jonhamm #junotemple #noahhawley #hulu #fx #joekeery #lamornemorris #jenniferjasonleigh #richamoorjani #davefoley  #Fargo #recap #streaming #Hulu #tvpodcast #nipplerings #yellowsweater 

00:52 The Struggles of Waiting for New Episodes

01:21 Personal Anecdotes and Casual Conversation

02:27 Discussion on the Theme of Running Away

04:49 Discussion on Alien Franchise

09:13 Review of 'The Killer'

18:04 Discussion on Fargo Episode 3 Continued

28:50 Analyzing the Artful Editing and Visual Storytelling

30:06 Exploring the Character's Wardrobe Choices

31:29 Unpacking the Intense Bedroom Scene

37:35 Diving into the Intriguing Flashback Sequence

45:46 Discussing the Tense Confrontation at the Gun Shop

49:46 Breaking Down the Climactic Halloween Night Scene

55:41 Reflecting on the Episode's Themes and Revelations

Reviewing Fargo Season 5 Episode 2: Hamm in a Hottub

Lisa and Dean dive into the second episode of Fargo's Fifth season dissecting the big entrance of Jon Hamm's character, the powerful Sheriff Roy Tillman who rules his North Dakota county with an iron fist. Lots of great revelations in this episode as the true identity of Juno Temple’s “Dot” is unmasked. This ep also has tons of callbacks to the original Fargo feature film. And of course we have to talk about the hot tub scene. Join us. 

#jonhamm #junotemple #noahhawley #hulu #fx #joekeery #lamornemorris #jenniferjasonleigh #richamoorjani #davefoley #lukasgage #Fargo

Hosts Lisa Zambetti and Dean Laffan reunite for a review of the opening episode of Fargo's fifth season now streaming on FX Hulu. They discuss the key characters, the various plot directions and themes, providing deep insights into the roles, potential narrative direction and analyzing the alignment with the original Fargo movie. They also talk about casting choices and performance dynamics. The two hosts scrutinize the plot's development from the opening sequence, the intertwining storylines, down to the episode's culmination. They give a detailed blow-by-blow analysis of the episode while pointing out their areas of discontent, predictions, and highlighting exciting moments.

00:00 Introduction of the Hosts 00:52 Discussion on Recent TV Shows 03:16 Introduction to the Main Topic: Fargo Season Five 03:57 Initial Impressions on Fargo Season Five 04:23 Deep Dive into the Characters and Plot 08:04 Continuation of the Fargo Season Five Analysis 09:38 Further Discussion on Fargo Season Five 18:47 Exploring the Connections in Fargo Series 24:11 The Chase Begins 24:16 Analyzing the Scene 24:21 The Unexpected Twist 24:35 The Classic Trip and Tumble 25:09 The Surprise Attack 25:55 The Kidnapping Plot 26:20 The Call Interruption 26:21 The Aftermath 26:29 The Pause and Reflection 27:05 The Husband's Return 27:32 The Kidnapping Aftermath 27:43 The Unconcerned Mother 30:14 The Cop's Home Life 35:09 The Convenience Store Standoff 44:57 The Aftermath and Return Home 48:29 The Episode Wrap-up

“Miranda’s Victim” is a new feature film thoughtfully directed by Michelle Danner with a heavy hitting cast starring Abigail Breslin, Mireille Enos, Emily VanCamp, Ryan Phillippe, Luke Wilson, Andy Garcia, Donald Sutherland and Kyle MacLachlan.

If you’ve watched any crime show, chances are you’ve heard the Miranda warning which starts “You have the right to remain silent…” But do you know where it came from and who “Miranda” was?  If you thought Miranda was an innocent victim who was perhaps falsely accused of a crime you’d be mistaken. Lisa sits down with executive producer and writer George Kolber  of “Miranda’s Victim” to talk about the true story of who the real victim was at the heart of the ground breaking legal challenge. 

In 1963, 18 year old Trisha Weir was on her way home from her job at a local Phoenix Arizona movie theater when she was abducted off the street, driven out into the desert and raped by Ernesto Miranda, a man who already had a history of crime including stalking and sexual assault. The police were able to zero in on Miranda, bring him into a line up where Trisha identified him and shortly thereafter he wrote a full confession to the crime without the presence of an attorney. Miranda was convicted, but later his verdict was overturned by the Supreme Court who found that his rights as a suspect had been violated. The film tracks Trisha’s journey as she tries heal from her trauma and still pursue justice.  For help with sexual assault in the US visit https://www.rainn.org/ In Australia, visit https://fullstop.org.au/ Watch the trailer for Miranda’s Victim here https://youtu.be/CJq0Frb-f-Y?si=ohPkglEumDvzEe2A 

Today we get to interview the incredible actor Kurt Yaeger who has been in more tv shows and films than we can name including a recur in Sons Of Anarchy, all the NCIS franchises, Another Life, Shameless,…and who is also an actor with a disability.

Kurt is a unique performer because sometimes the roles he takes feature his below the knee amputation and sometimes they don’t. Regardless he is able to kick ass doing his own stunts motorcycle riding, running, jumping, fighting, shooting, and getting exploded.

Kurt tells us about his journey from being a professional athlete to his accident, his rehabilitation and his determination to act no matter what. You will truly be inspired to hear how he got cast on SoA. Plus he shares his insights on what needs to happen to get more inclusion and representation for more performers with disabilities in the entertainment industry.

Also, Dean and Kurt bro it out on all kinds of levels. See Kurt's showreel here https://youtu.be/9dX3k4Wlki0?si=jJ1RMXVe1yWTmSqu

His website https://www.kurtyaeger.com/

His career in porn !  Don't panic its a tounge-in-cheek book' called 'Porn for Women and TOTALLY safe for work and kids. No nudity. Think men fully clothed doing housework and cooking ;-) https://www.chroniclebooks.com/products/porn-for-women.html/ 

Lisa sits down with an absolute icon in the casting world. Love The West Wing? E.R.? Shameless? Southland? Well then you have loved the work of the wonderful, inspiring John Frank Levey who put some of the most amazing actors into some of the most iconic tv shows in history. John’s new book “Right for the Role” dives deep into his career, sharing his journey navigating Hollywood as well as the origin stories of how the casts of his shows came to be. In their conversation, Lisa asks John about how casting has changed, and they compare notes on some of their favorite performers. 

You can get your own copy of John's book here:

https://amzn.to/3JHcwBc

#castingdirectors #casting #actors #Hollywood #characters #thewestwing #ER #Southland #Shameless

#roles #losangeles 

Joining Lisa today are two veteran television writer/producers Ted Sullivan (Riverdale, Star Trek Discovery, Supergirl, Revenge, Rizzoli & Isles, Law and Order Criminal Intent) and Elizabeth Benjamin (Dead to Me, The Flight Attendant, Bridgerton, 13 Reasons Why).  Lisa asks them about the current Writer’s Guild of America strike which is impacting all levels of production. 

 Ted and Liz talk about their careers and how working conditions have deteriorated for writers who love this work, yet who have been pushed to the breaking point.  This is not about getting a guaranteed big payday, it is about the most basic things like making your insurance and feeding your families — all the while Studios and Streaming companies are making record profits.  Also at stake is the creative process itself, which draw so many people into the profession in the first place. Join us for this important conversation.

**** Production Note:  Unfortunatley Liz' internet connection had a couple of spotty patches, so please bear with us. Also, Lisa flubs the name of her union, she accidentally says Local 99 instead of Local 399 (Go Teamsters!). Lastly, per usual, Lisa is very "salty" with her language. So protect your delicate sensabilities. Thank you! 

And now for something completely different, love The Great British Baking Show but deplore The Kardashians? Hate/watch The Bachelor but ride or die with Dr. Pol? Project Runway, Top Chef, Selling Beverly Hills and Indian Matchmaking are shows that gave Lisa an insane amount of joy. Today, Lisa pivots to talking to her esteemed colleagues in the REALITY / UNSCRIPTED casting world. Join Lisa and her guests Reality Star turned Reality Casting Director Rachel Reilly (Big Brother, Traitors), Casting Director Kristen Moss (MasterChef, Big Brother, Reality Television Awards) and Emmy award winning Casting Director Jeffrey Marx (HBO's We're Here, Love on the Spectrum, Real World, Project Runway).  We talk about how unscripted casting directors do their jobs, the differing genres within unscripted (competition, lifestyle) how they find people, how they champion people with evocative stories, and what positive change Reality shows bring to the world.  And OH yes, we talk all the tea about Vanderpump Rules  Ariana, Tom, Raquel of it all!  Twitter @kMossLA Insta @rachelereillyvillegas Twitter @rachelEReilly  Inst @jeffmarxthespot Twitter @jeffmarxthespot https://instagram.com/reality_tv_castingcalls https://www.instagram.com/kristen_moss_schiazza/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y%3D https://www.instagram.com/realityawardstv/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y%3D 

Lisa's love-hate relationship with Oscar reaches another year. This time we focus on the Best Actress race. So yes we cover Michelle, Michelle, Cate, Andrea and Ana, but we range far and wide as Lisa and Dean are joined by Oscars uber-nerd Paul Sullivan who brings his unique encyclopaedic brain to the party. And of course we close out with our own predictions and Lisa hands out the 'Zammie' for Best Actress Enjoy !

Today Lisa is in the kitchen banging around making blueberry pancakes in the background while Paul tells her what he thinks about Baz Luhrman’s “Elvis” movie and how Austin Butler’s performance compares with the real thing. Do we think he will win the Oscar? Listen and find out. The conversation takes some wacky turns along the way. We talk Monty Python, German sex workers, Barbra Streisand, Tom Hanks’ accents, Henry the Fifth, Lisa sings Lady Gaga, and so much more! Pass the syrup and enjoy!

Happy 2023 from Killer Casting! Today Lisa has a special drop for the podcast. It is a little gift or offering for you if you can use it, especially if you are an actor. January kicks off a New Year but it also kicks off something else for our industry called “pilot season”. This time of year can be extremely exciting but also extremely stressful. If you are an actor, you may be full of hopes and fears. Things may be about to kick into high gear and get super busy with auditions, self tapes, studio and network tests, chemistry reads…while at the same time you may be sinking into a sadness or sense of missing out if you are not as busy as you think you should be.

That is why Lisa wanted to offer this special mediation that she hopes can help. Relaxation and visualization are cornerstones of many actor trainings. They are used in voice training, physical training and all kinds of acting methods to open your emotions and instrument. But today, Lisa wants to use this mediation to help you wherever you are in your journey, wherever you are on your path, wherever you are in your day or evening. Hey, even if you are not in the entertainment industry but want a new relaxation visualization exercise, stick around, we think you will feel really really good afterwards. 

So sit in a comfy chair, lay on your couch or bed, you could even settle into the seat of your parked car or your airplane seat … and get ready to breath, let go and let Lisa carry you for awhile

In light of the recent episode we recorded on the extraordinary Universal film “She Said” Lisa and Dean are honored to be joined by none other than Rowena Chiu who’s story about being assaulted by Harvey Weinstein is depicted in the movie. We are also joined by the two fantastic actresses Ashley Chiu and Angela Yeoh who both played Rowena (one as her 24 year old self during the time she worked for Miramax, the other as her older self years after she had signed an iron clad NDA to not disclose his crime). All three of these fantastic women talk about what it was like to be part of this important film. Join us. Listen, subscribe and share.

When Lisa went to the special private screening that Universal held for the film “She Said”, there was not a dry eye in the house when the lights came up. The audience was moved by the story of how two determined female reporters for The New York Times (played flawlessly by Carey Mulligan and Zoe Kazan) finally got victims to go on the record about how they had been assaulted and harassed by then mega powerful Hollywood producer Harvey Weinstein. We were moved by the sensitive and nuanced acting, the stealthy script, restrained direction, and just the enormity of what the story meant, and who it meant the most to — its far reaching repercussions. Join Lisa and Dean as they not only break down the most important aspects of the film….but Lisa has to take to task a certain well known Hollywood journalist for their insensitive comments dismissing the film asking “who is this movie for?”. Well we are gonna tell you who it’s for, and why we hope it wins all the Oscars!  (We also love the rating which reads She Said, Rated R for language, implied sexual violence and patriarchal horrors). No seriously, it actually says that. Patriarchal horrors! 

Lisa and Dean sit down with phenomenal actors Marilee Talkington and James Immekus to talk about Access for Actors with Disabilities. Both have had incredible careers in television, film and theatre. But it has not been an easy road. Both Marilee and James are actors with low vision (also referred to as visually impaired) who each have remarkable stories to tell about their journey “to be seen”. What do Actors with disabilities go through in order to train, audition and work in an industry they love? What do casting directors, producers, directors and writers need to do to make sure these talented artists are included? We need them, and they need access. Join us for this honest and sometimes painful conversation. Subscribe and share.

American Murderer, the new film written and directed by Matthew Gentile, stars Tom Pelphery, Ryan Phillippe, Idina Menzel, Paul Schneider, Kevin Corrigan, Shantel VanSantern and Jacki Weaver.   Matthew talks with Lisa and Dean about the shocking true story that it is based on, why Matthew cast Tom in the lead role of a real murderer / con man who is still at large, and how he got Jacki Weaver to come to Utah to play the role of the mother. Don’t miss our interview and definitely don’t miss this movie. 

Beautiful, breathy, kittenish, dizzy, bombshell, blonde. So many words can describe Marilyn Monroe and never really capture who she was…or who we think she was. Was she a spoiled, vain, ambitious starlet who played men as easily as she did the ukulele in “Some Like It Hot”? Or a sad, traumatized victim, ever needy, ever wanting for approval, never finding the respect she craved, the child she yearned for nor the man she really loved. The movie “Blonde” starring Ana de Armas directed by Andrew Dominik adapted from the novel by Joyce Carol Oates, seems to be certain of the latter. Lisa and Dean sit down with master acting teacher Terry Knickerbocker — who coaches some of Hollywood’s most compelling actors like Sam Rockwell, Daniel Craig and Emmy Rossum — to ask what he thinks of the film, of the performance by de Armas and why the persona of Marilyn Monroe has become so iconic, and such a Mount Everest, much like the role of Hamlet, that so many actresses want to climb. Join us as we break it all down.

#Blonde #AnaDeArmas #MarilynMonroe #Bombshell #Hollywood #Starlet #AndrewDominik

When news broke that actor James Franco had been cast as Fidel Castro in the indie film "Alina of Cuba", a lot of people had A LOT to say about it. Some people (like actor John Leguizamo) were appalled, and some (comedian Bill Maher) were appalled that people were appalled. So why is authentic representation in film and television so important to some and not to others. Lisa sits down with legendary casting director Carla Hool and multi-hyphenate powerhouse actor/producer/casting director Elaine Del Valle to discuss why this subject strikes so deeply in the Latin and Hispanic communities.   Lisa and Carla compare notes on the actors at the top of THEIR list for the role of Fidel Castro. Don't miss it!

“The Bear” is so authentic in its depiction of the dysfunctions of the restaurant industry, Lisa and Brian (both former servers) had PTSD watching it. But watch it they did!  We have a lot to say about the acting, story and soul of this wonderful FX/Hulu Original show.  #InTheWeeds #jeremyallenwhite #beyondshameless #thebear #huluoriginals #fx

We got a show ya can't refuse...all about THE OFFER series streaming on Paramount +, the behind the scenes take on the making of The Godfather movie.

Some iconic characters come to life brilliantly in the show, despite some fast and loose re-telling of the facts.

Our good friend Patrick Gallo is a delight as Mario Puzzo, Matthew Goode wears the Robert Evans role like a well-cut suit, and I can't even remember what Francis Ford Coppola really looks like because I can only imagine Dan Fogler.

But first we pay tribute to a paisan who broke the mold...Ray Liotta. RIP

Lisa, Dean, Matt and Mj resume their coverage of the brilliant Apple TV+ production Severance. Soak it up peeps !

Meanwhile, here are some links to help you binge on yet more goodies, now that the series finale has aired.

In a marketing masterstroke, Apple Books have released a faux expose book by a fictional woman named Margaret “Peg” Kincaid. The book purports too be a tell-all by Peg spilling the beans on what’s really happening at Lumon. Get it from Apple Books. https://books.apple.com/us/book/severance/id1613220757 

Seven awesome behind the-scenes stories you never knew about the making of Series 1. The first story by some guy called Dan Erickson …. https://www.vulture.com/article/severance-behind-the-scenes-stories.html

The story behind the EPIC opening titles designed by enfant terrible Oliver Latta (aka Extraweg) In Dean’s opinion already the best titles of 2022 and unlikely to be beaten. https://mashable.com/article/severance-opening-titles-oliver-latta

The Den of Geek article Dean mentioned deep diving on the fascination sci-fi has with corridors https://www.denofgeek.com/movies/in-praise-of-the-sci-fi-corridor/

A constantly updating guide to all of the irl locations where Severance was filmed, not least the iconic Bell Works in Holmdel, New Jersey which serves as the Lumon head office. https://www.atlasofwonders.com/2022/03/where-was-severance-filmed.html 

An spooky recent picture gallery of the deserted Bell Works Lab designed by Finnish legend Eero Saarinen https://www.archdaily.com/469456/photos-of-eero-saarinen-s-abandoned-bell-labs

Roxanna Hadadi over at Vulture has her own suspicions about what exactly Lumen is up to and what we might fond out in Series 2 Her own suspicions about what exactly Lumen is up to and what we might fond https://www.vulture.com/article/severance-finale-lumon-industries-eagan-theory-clues.html

And finally Roxanna’s colleague Jackson McHenry has this great piece on the insanely great (see what I did there) Production Design of the series https://www.vulture.com/article/severance-office-design-explained.html ***************** And as always, our episodes come to you courtesy of our friends at Plantiva. Learn more at http://www.plantiva.com/killercasting and use the promo code KC25 to get 25% off your next order ! *****************

Our episodes come to you courtesy of our friends at Plantiva. Learn more at http://www.plantiva.com/killercasting and use the promo code KC25 to get 25% off your next order ! ***************** This week Lisa is joined by eclectic actor Edward Hong, who has carved out quite a career in tv, film, stage, commercials and especially voice overs! Eddy’s voice can be heard in the English dubbing of the incredibly popular Netflix series “Squid Game” as well as in all kinds of anime, video games, scripted podcasts…you name it and he has probably voiced it. 

Ed and Lisa careen through all kinds of topics including how he became famous as “The Cinnabon Guy”. (Yes really) Check out all things Eddy here https://linktr.ee/Cinnabonmonster 

Our episodes come to you courtesy of our friends at Plantiva. Learn more at http://www.plantiva.com/killercasting and use the promo code KC25 to get 25% off your next order ! ***************** Lisa Zambetti: Lisa is back gabbing with Edward Hong…talking about so called “cancel” culture and how complicated it is for us emotionally as fans when our heroes fall — but how vital it is for us to be the first to call their crimes out. Is it possible to compartmentalize behavior vs art…and if it is possible, should it be? Lisa also talks about a very famous actress who confessed another famous actor slapped her across the face to get her into character. Wtf!  Please don’t hit the actresses! Keep your freaking hands to yourself!!!  But we also talk about OUR FLAG MEANS DEATH which features our mutual friend Samba Schutte!!! We get all into it…

This episode comes to you today with thanks to our new friends at Plantiva. Learn more at http://www.plantiva.com/killercasting and use the promo code KC25 to get 25% off your next order ! *****************

The idiot savant team are back! Dean and Paul are flying solo (well that doesn’t actually make sense does it ?)  Let’s just say without Capt. Lisa as pilot-in-command. The boys cover off on their favourite Oscars moments, what worked .. what didn’t … Paul reviews his favourite part of any Oscars, that being the ‘In Memoriam’ section … which has been done well  … and done in appalling fashion, depending on who is driving that section in any given year, how did it fare this year ? Well, hit Play to find out that and a whole lot more ! Riz Ahmed's beautiful speech https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdO9Eyp4ZFY  Dianne Warren's frosty re action to Billie Eilish winning Best Song at the Oscars. https://youtu.be/UfpTx2eAglk  Steven Spielberg keeps his seat for Godfather https://youtu.be/h_Kb_MaBWT8?t=160    Maybe Francis will make Steven of aoffer he .. meh, you know.

Everyone is weighing on the confrontation at the 2022 Oscar ceremony between Will Smith and Chris Rock. While we wish we could focus on the winners (and we will), today seemed like a good time to get some perspective and context about the dramatic, confusing and shocking incident from other people who work in Hollywood. Joining Dean and Lisa to decompress and reflect on Will Smith, Chris Rock and Jada Pinkett Smith and what the slap seen around the world means.  Thank you to our guests, Hollywood super star teacher, former agent Wendy Alane Wright....and award winning writer producer David Fortune.  They have very different views on the events and they are great at explaining why.

This episode comes to you today with thanks to our new friends at Plantiva. Learn more at http://www.plantiva.com/killercasting and use the promo code KC25 to get 25% off your next order ! ***************** Well folks, here is our third installment of our Oscar 2022 coverage. We've wrung our hands, pulled our hair, paced up and down...but we think we finally have decided who to hand the "ZAMMY" to for excellence in Casting!  (tho, if you follow the pod, this won't be a shocker).

This episode comes to you today with thanks to our new friends at Plantiva. Learn more at http://www.plantiva.com/killercasting and use the promo code KC25 to get 25% off your next order ! *****************

Lisa, Dean and Paul continue their casting review of all the Best Picture nominees, counting down to the winner of the "Zammy" (Excellence in Casting) Since the Film Academy doesn't give out that award! Lisa thinks it is almost impossible to compare "apples to orangatans" but there is certain criteria to consider if one is going to quantify "Best Casting".  You'd have to think about difficulty of roles, achievement of authenticity, outside of the box creativity, re-invention of an actor, chemistry of the cast, discovery of new actors, and casting well known actors in a totally different way. Let's see how the competitors fare!

This episode comes to you today with thanks to our new friends at Plantiva. Learn more at http://www.plantiva.com/killercasting and use the promo code KC25 to get 25% off your next order !******************************** Aaaand away we go !  Lisa tries to put aside her 'Oscars 'Schmoscars' eye-roll over the awards .. especially as she is now an official card carrying MEMBER of the academy !  (Don’t believe us ?  … just hang around for 10 minutes, she’ll drop it … don’t worry.

Lisa and Dean are joined today by Oscar savant Paul Thomas Anderson !   No wait .. that’s not right … 

Sorry, that should read  ‘Paul Francis Sullivan’. Paul and Dean, (well briefed by Lisa) delve into the unusual format of an Oscars review which is predicated on all the Best Picture nominees rated by the quality of their casting. Paul and Dean are all over it, as you will hear.

This is one of three parts, yes THREE! So buckle up and as Curtis Mayfield said; “people get ready” coz there’s lots more comimng from whence this came.

This episode comes to you today with thanks to our new friends at Plantiva. Learn more at http://www.plantiva.com/killercasting and use the promo code KC25 to get 25% off your next order !********************************

Here in the final week before the 94th Academy Awards, we share this redux of Episode 048 celebrating the wonderful film CODA.

Deservedly, it is up for THREE awards. Best Picture, Best Screenplay and Best Supporting Actor for the brilliant Troy Kotsur. 

If you missed it first time, jump in now and if you heard it last year ...  listen again !

Full transcript: https://www.killercastingpod.com/podcast/episode/23cd3f8a/048-coda  ********************************

SHOW NOTES: Every once in a while a film comes along that simply transports you with its sheer brilliance — the brilliance of the sea shining on a bright, crisp Gloucester morning  CODA is one such film that approaches perfection. CODA (Children Of Deaf Adults) is many things at once, a coming of age story of a child finding her way into adulthood and independence; a rollicking chronicle of a loving hard working family; a damn funny movie that will in turn, touch, move, inspire and awe you.

The success of a film like this hinges not so much on the story (it is a tale we have seen often), but on the casting of these wonderful roles who inhabit a world most of us have never experienced. 

Ruby is the only hearing member of her family where her dad Frank, her mom  Jackie and her older brother Leo are all deaf. Those three roles are played by actors who are deaf in real life — which may seem like obvious casting choices, but in reality, actors who are deaf rarely get a chance to play roles this beautifully drawn. They rarely get to show off their astonishingly talent. But in this film, Troy Kotsur (who Lisa is starting a campaign right now for an Academy Award for this performance), Marlee Matlin and Daniel Durant all get a chance to shine brightly. The precocious Ruby is portrayed in a tour-de-force by Emilia Jones. As final treat, look out for the spellbinding performance of Eugenio Derbez as Bernardo Villalobos, Ruby's music teacher. 

In lesser hands, this film could easily have wallowed in mediocre cliche, but under the assured direction of Sian Heder and with that stellar cast, what shouldn't work does. What should be hackneyed, soars and what could easily be mawkish, will move you to tears.

Joining us to give a true perspective on the portrayal of deaf characters in this film, is the amazing actress/writer/producer Antoinette Abbamonte who is also part of the deaf acting community in Hollywood. And a special shout out goes to our ASL interpreter Nicole Pancino who joined us for Antoinette’s interview.  

We could go ON for hours about this exquisite film .. in fact we almost do !   Enjoy

If you liked Part 1 of our interview with acting coach and all ‘round legend Terry Knickerbocker … you are going to LOVE Part 2!

We continue our deep dive on transformational roles, covering some legendary performances you might expect( from the Ikes of De Niro) .. but some you may nor even had heard of  … (Theres your homework kids)

We also discuss on his amazing alumni, not least of all Sam Rockwell, but also brilliant character actors like Yul Vasquez, Abbie Cornish, Chris Messina, and the likes of John Leguizamo and even tent pole talent like Daniel Craig. All coached by Terry.

Yes, there is something for everyone in this one. Enjoy.

Oh and if you really want a thrill, drop into his amazing Brooklyn Studio. Go for the world class coaching, stay for the stunning studio places and fung shui https://terryknickerbockerstudio.com

Lisa is ALL in on HBO’s Euphoria, and particularly Zendaya’s stunning transformative performance as a drug addicted teenager careening towards the abyss. We need to talk about it, pull it apart and examine what is making it so amazing. Here with Lisa and Dean to talk about transformative acting is acting teacher extraordinaire, Terry Knickerbocker who has coached many A-list actors.  Even if you’ve never seen Euphoria, you won’t want to miss our discussion. 

#euphoria #hbomax #zendaya #terryknickerbocker

I scream, you scream, we all scream for ... Sidney !  Lisa went back to the theater for the first time in two years just to see the latest iteration of the SCREAM franchise. She took along horror fan and actress Ashely Arpel Greenbaum to explain all the missing pieces from the previous movies.

Its short, its sharp, its a bunch of fun and recorded on location ! Enjoy.

Happy New Year! I am thrilled today to sit down with actor, producer and advocate Sarah Ann Masse. In 2017, Sarah came forward with sexual misconduct allegations against Harvey Weinstein — one of many actresses (like Mira Sorvino and Ashley Judd) who said they had also suffered sexual harassment and sexual assault by the producer. She tells me her story of what happened that day at Weinstein’s Connecticut home, the silence and anxiety she endured for years after, and the shocking backlash she says she suffered from our industry once she went public.

Though Weinstein has been convicted of rape, sentenced to 23 years in New York prison and awaits another sexual assault trial in Los Angeles — many of his victims still suffer career retaliation for having spoken out. To turn that around, Sarah created her own initiative, Hire Survivors Hollywood, which aims to raise support for survivors of sexual violence within the entertainment industry by encouraging those in positions of power to make a pledge to hire survivors and silence breakers, and give them a fair chance through auditions, meetings and interviews, like any other person trying to make it in entertainment. I encourage all my beloved Casting Director colleagues, producers, writers, directors, studio and network executives to take the pledge: “I pledge to build a safer, more equitable industry by giving opportunities, auditions, & interviews to survivors & #SilenceBreakers. I’ll never retaliate against anyone for coming forward about sexual violence. I pledge to @HireSurvivors #TakeThePledge #HireSurvivorsHollywood” No one deserves to be punished for telling the truth. Follow Hire Survivors Hollywood on instagram, twitter, and facebook to join the conversation and learn more. Please use #HireSurvivorsHollywood to be a part of the conversation! If you have been a victim of sexual violence and believe you have faced direct or indirect career retaliation because of it please email our encrypted email address

Please also see the following resources if you need help. There are people who want to help you…so please reach out! Resources for Survivors of Sexual Violence RAINN – (Rape, Abuse & Incest National Network) is the nation’s largest anti-sexual violence organization. RAINN created and operates the National Sexual Assault Hotline (800.656.HOPE, 

Lisa sez; "I don't GAF about who the next James Bond might be,  I don't even care about what's-his-face, who is about to retire from playing the current Bond ... change my mind"

Deano is joined by extreme film nerd Paul Francis Sullivan and famous (infamous ?) Producer, Adam Spiegelman to dive into the past and present Bondiverse to try and bring Lisa on board. Do we succeed ?  Well [you know this is coming] you'll have to listen to find out! 

Along the way, just like Jefferson Airplane, Paul will ‘feed your head’ with amazing, heretofore unknown Bondian nuggets. Adam has some inside Hollywood goss and Dean just tries to keep up … with varying degrees of success. 

In this ep, the boss also lets us all plug our OWN pods ! (OMG)

Adam has his hilarious pod covering the best worst films of all time. ‘Proudly Resents’ (That is BIG vertical) You can expect this pod to run forever. https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/proudly-resents-the-cult-movie-podcast/id373063266 

Paul Francis Sullivan has the insane baseball pod 'Locked on MLB' https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/locked-on-mlb-daily-podcast-on-major-league-baseball/id1361879433 where during baseball season  he puts out …

One episode per month ?  ... nope.  

One episode per week ? ... nope. 

One episode per FREAKIN DAY PEOPLE !  ... and in the off-season his is till jonesing on off-season news, collectibles  ... you name it. So his  pod will likely not finish until our sun goes supernova and envelops the earth, or he shuffles off this mortal coil ... whichever comes first.

Meanwhile, in another life Dean  is a scuba diver/cavediver/freediver and co-convenor of one of the world's biggest diving events. Listen in to the Ozdive Podcast which is replaying previously unheard presentations from the world's top explorers, hyperbaric geeks, historians, divers, film makers and all sorts of n'er do wells  in scuba, cave and technical diving and world class freedivers. Take a deep breath and dive in ! https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/ozdiveshow-podcast/id1587465467 

And of course when not casting everything under the sun in Hollywood, or blessing us with her godly presence on our humble little pod, Lisa is the founder, co-producer, co-presenter  of a teeeeeeensy weeeensy little true crime pod known as ‘Real Crime Profile’ I think if you google it, you may get a hit or two. Here let me help you  … https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/real-crime-profile/id1081244497 

Oooooh … not far til Christmas now folks !

It's that time of year! We are so "thankful" that it is time to binge on good food and great tv. Catch up with Lisa, Dean and Ashley on what they have been obsessing over and what they want to catch up on now that holiday time has begun! #yellowjackets, #dexter #grimm, #animalkingdom #curbyourenthusiasm #Fargo #Mrinbetween #Futurama #SiliconValley #HaltandCatchFire #Lillyhammer #Ozark #JasonBateman #Succession #Brian Cox #Bladerunner #EllenBarkin

It's a mashup !  True crime and film collide ... Lisa and Dean are joined by Real Crime Profile's Jim Clemente (Retired FBI Criminal Behavioral Profiler and Writer/Producer on CBS' Criminal Minds) to break down the new Netflix thriller "The Guilty" starring Jake Gyllenhaal who plays a cop doing desk duty as a 911 Dispatcher (with a fantastic cast of actors doing spectacular voice over work). Joining the gang are not one but TWO real life 911 Dispatchers, Susan Nofplotes from Florida and Katie Gregory-Tims from Texas. We go in depth to see just how accurate the portrayal of 911 calls and emergency situations are depicted. (you may be surprised) Jim gets the chance to ask these seasoned professionals what they thought of the 911 calls relevant in the tragic death of Gabby Petito. THIS is one episode you don't want to miss !

On today’s episode we react to the tragic death of cinematographer Halyna Hutchins who was accidentally shot while on set of the film “Rust”. Details are still emerging and it is unclear whether there was a breakdown of safety protocol, of communication — or perhaps the inexperience of a non union crew — that left Ms. Hutchins and director Joel Souza (who was also injured) unprotected and vulnerable to this tragedy. What we do know is that there are supposed to be checks and balances to keep cast and crew safe. There are also many other ways to deliver explosive effects that do not include “live rounds” in a scene. Joining us to talk about this and other on-set dangers is veteran actor Xander Berkeley (Terminator 2, Heat, A Few Good Men, Taken, Air Force One, Leaving Los Vega, Apollo 13, Candy Man, The Walking Dead, Justified, Nikita) who has been in in many shoot out scenes and has the scars to prove it. https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0075359/  Also joining us is Steve Meyers, an Emmy and VES winning Visual Effects Supervisor. Steve began his tenure by taking the helm on the highly successful television series Criminal Minds, which he supervised for the last eight seasons of production. Along the way, he’s overseen many other series for FuseFX, including Hell on Wheels, Good Girls Revolt, Mayan’s MC, and Hollywood. https://fusefx.com/the-team/ https://www.visualeffectssociety.com  If you feel unsafe on set for any reason, including harassment, send a tip via the IATSE Safety Hotline at 844-422-9273 Lisa and Dean have many questions for these two highly experienced professionals…but most importantly our thoughts go out to Halyna’s family. #hernamewashalynahutchins

What do Jamie Lee Curtis, Neve Campbell, Betty Gabriel, Adrienne Barbeau, Vera Farmiga, Lupita Nyong’o and Anya Taylor-Joy have in common? Well that’s not really hard to figure out. They are all bonafide Scream Queens — that echelon of actress that is at the top of the horror genre. Joining Lisa to discuss how this archetype has evolved over the years is our favorite Queen who is such a scream himself, H. Alan Scott, aka Sadie Pines!

You can listen to H. Alan’s new project “The Murder of Robert Wone” on Audible.

You can read the book Lisa mentions “Men, Women, and Chainsaws: Gender in the Modern Horror Film” by Carol J. Clover

t’s the scary month of October! And what really terrifies us? Is it the hairy creature, the slimy alien, the relentless psychopath? Or is it the monster within ourselves? Or both? (Jack Nicholson in “The Shining” anyone?) Join Lisa, Dean and our special guest producer Ben Raphael Sher (Eli Roth’s “History of Horror”) as we talk about the scariest performances by actors we’ve ever seen in film and tv.

Wait, you are telling me that there is a spooky series starring Hamish Linklater, Zach Gilford (aka Matt Saracen), set in a tiny coastal town with a bunch of Neil Diamond songs playing all over the place? Lisa is SOOOOO in! Lisa sits down with award winning writer Heidi Nyburg and dazzling actress Ashley Arpel Greenwald to breakdown the first ep of the hit Netflix series “Midnight Mass”. Created by Mike Flanagan We talk about how elegantly the show throws down the premise and intros all the characters in a very unique way…and we all take turns guessing what will happen next! (What’s in the boooooooxxxxxxxx?)

TRIGGER WARNING: This episode contains explicit descriptions of violence. Please exercise care when listening.

SPOILER ALERT: This episode contains spoilers of the film “Nitram”. However, the true events that this film is based upon are well known particularly in Australia.

On April 28th 1996, Australia experienced the worst mass shooting massacre in its history as 35 people were murdered in Port Arthur Tasmania by a 28 year old white male shooter.

This week on Killer Casting, we cover the new film “Nitram” written by Shaun Grant and directed by Justin Kurzel, which probes the sequence of events and behavior of this shooter, his family and other significant relationships leading up to that horrific day.

Starring Caleb Landry Jones, Judy Davis, Anthony LaPaglia, no one in the film ever utters the name of this shooter, nor does it show the graphic violence he unleashed on so many innocent people.

Instead it picks apart the many intervention points that might have derailed him from his heinous crime.

A film like this we could not possibly analyze alone, with us to understand the difference between fact and fiction is Dr. Tim Watson-Munro, an Australian Criminal Psychologist world recognised in his field and an expert in the psychology of mass shooting offenders.

Dr. Watson-Munro himself treated a number of the survivors of the massacre. You won’t want to miss this very special episode of Killer Casting Podcast.

#rememberthevictimsofportarthur Winifred Joyce Aplin, 58 Walter John Bennett, 66 Nicole Louise Burgess, 17 Sou Leng Chung, 32 Elva Rhonda Gaylard, 48 Zoe Anne Hall, 28 Elizabeth Jayne Howard, 26 Mary Elizabeth Howard, 57 Mervyn John Howard, 55 Ronald Noel Jary, 71 Tony Vadivelu Kistan, 51 Leslie Dennis Lever, 53 Sarah Kate Loughton, 15 David Martin, 72 Noelene "Sally" Joyce Martin, 69 Pauline Virjeana Masters, 49 Alannah Louise Mikac, 6 Madeline Grace Mikac, 3 Nanette Patricia Mikac, 36 Andrew Bruce Mills, 39 Peter Brenton Nash, 32 Gwenda Joan Neander, 67 William Xeeng Ng, 48 Anthony Nightingale, 44 Mary Rose Nixon, 60 Glenn Roy Pears, 35 Russell James Pollard, 72 Janette Kathleen Quin, 50 Helene Maria Salzmann, 50 Robert Graham Salzmann, 57 Kate Elizabeth Scott, 21 Kevin Vincent Sharp, 68 Raymond John Sharp, 67 Royce William Thompson, 59 Jason Bernard Winter, 29

Today our opening music is by: Lesfm

You can find Dr. Watson-Munro’s books here:

“A Shrink in the Clink” https://amzn.to/3DeqKnh and Dancing with Demons https://amzn.to/3BdnbNH

Lisa sez: "Cut the cord peoples!"

Brian sez: "Don't forget your animated options"

Dean sez: "Whats a Hulu?" 

Your intrepid reporters from the global resources of the vast Killer Casting Network (KCN) deep dive what is currently keeping them, up way too late, bed-less, bingeing and burning bits & bytes ("But honey ... just one more episode .... PUHlease ?") Lisa gives a big plug for Reservation Dogs (well she WOULD wouldn't she, coz she was part of the casting team for the pilot !) But hey ... charity starts at home, right ? Also you can hear her thoughts on; The Handmaids Tale, a crazy Nicole Kidman in Nine Perfect Strangers , Y The Last Man, Patton Oswalt in Marvel's animated 'Modok'. But wait ! #notdoneyet ... she also gives shoutouts to 'The Great' with Elle Fanning and Nic Hoult, Alex Garland's 'Devs', The TV re-boot of Nic Hornsby's 'High Fidelity' starring Zoe Kravitz, the sexy/sad Brit offering of Normal People' and the adapted-from-the-podcast 'American Crime Story: Impeachment' covering the Clinton/Lewinsky saga.

Brian has been on an animated tear (That's 'tear' ... not 'tear') so he sketches out why you should watch Solar Opposites from Justin Roiland the creator of Rick and Morty and lays out the result of the love child between Kiwi geniuses Jermaine Clement and Taika Waititi .. that would be the vampire mockumentary comedy 'What We Do in the Shadows' Dean (with no Hulu in Australia) raids his tagged items in the Aussie-based Stan Disney+ and  Binge platforms to come up with the gripping British crime drama 'Vigil'. He also likes The White Lotus and is rewatching the classic Working Dog Productions' razor sharp satire 'Utopia' (which is scarily accurate to his corporate day job) Dea) WAS going to search up all of the trailers for these shows, to save YOU the trouble, but has decided he cant be arsed and you can do it yourselves. So on that note ... we'll see you on the socials!

Today we are paying special tribute to an actor we lost too soon, who was an astonishing talent, exceptional human being and whom Lisa had the great fortune of casting in two projects… Michael Kenneth Williams. Known for creating such iconic roles such as Omar in “The Wire”, Chalky White in “Boardwalk Empire” and Bobby McCray in “When They See Us”, Lisa, Dean and our special guest, actor Patrick Gallo, breakdown exactly what made Michael’s work so special. LINKS: Wonderfully detailed 30 min interview with Michael as he breaks down in detail, many of his iconic performances. Don't miss this clip ! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWBtPXIgid8 A brilliant 3 minute short where Michael chats with 4 different versions of himself discussing being typecast https://youtu.be/Vv3_3PQsJA8 The powerful scene from 'When They See Us' which we played in the pod https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-nb2yyr7Kk  David Sims at The Atlantic with a great thoughtful short piece on Michael https://www.theatlantic.com/culture/archive/2021/09/michael-k-williams/620001 Noah Remnnick's excellent NYT long form piece on Michael from 2017 https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/30/nyregion/michael-k-williams-is-more-than-omar-from-the-wire.html 

Every once in a while a film comes along that simply transports you with its sheer brilliance — the brilliance of the sea shining on a bright, crisp Gloucester morning  CODA is one such film that approaches perfection. CODA (Children Of Deaf Adults) is many things at once, a coming of age story of a child finding her way into adulthood and independence; a rollicking chronicle of a loving hard working family; a damn funny movie that will in turn, touch, move, inspire and awe you.

The success of a film like this hinges not so much on the story (it is a tale we have seen often), but on the casting of these wonderful roles who inhabit a world most of us have never experienced. 

Ruby is the only hearing member of her family where her dad Frank, her mom  Jackie and her older brother Leo are all deaf. Those three roles are played by actors who are deaf in real life — which may seem like obvious casting choices, but in reality, actors who are deaf rarely get a chance to play roles this beautifully drawn. They rarely get to show off their astonishingly talent. But in this film, Troy Kotsur (who Lisa is starting a campaign right now for an Academy Award for this performance), Marlee Matlin and Daniel Durant all get a chance to shine brightly. The precocious Ruby is portrayed in a tour-de-force by Emilia Jones. As final treat, look out for the spellbinding performance of Eugenio Derbez as Bernardo Villalobos, Ruby's music teacher. 

In lesser hands, this film could easily have wallowed in mediocre cliche, but under the assured direction of Sian Heder and with that stellar cast, what shouldn't work does. What should be hackneyed, soars and what could easily be mawkish, will move you to tears.

Joining us to give a true perspective on the portrayal of deaf characters in this film, is the amazing actress/writer/producer Antoinette Abbamonte who is also part of the deaf acting community in Hollywood. And a special shout out goes to our ASL interpreter Nicole Pancino who joined us for Antoinette’s interview.  

We could go ON for hours about this exquisite film .. in fact we almost do !  So stop reading this and listen in to our podcast right now. If you are reading this and are deaf or hard of hearing please find a complete transcript of this interview on our website  here. 

#CODA film #AntoinetteAbbamonte #EmiliaJones #TroyKotsur, #MarleeMatlin #DanielDurant #EugenioDerbez #SianHeder #OscarForTroy

#CODA film #Antoinette Abbomonte #EmiliaJones #TroyKotsur, #MarleeMatlin #DanielDurant #Eugenio Derbez #SianHeder  ******************  Episode Transcript  ********************

[Scene from the film ‘CODA’]

FADE IN:

INT. Home of Ruby’s teacher Bernardo Villanova (aka ‘MR. V) –- MORNING

MR V sits at his piano in a large light filled room, accompanying Ruby Rossi as she sings‘Both Sides Now’ by Joni Mitchell.

RUBY

🎼 They shake their heads, they say I've changed.

BERNARDO VILLALOBOS:

Breathe.

RUBY

🎼 Well something's lost but something's gained.

BERNARDO

Breathe!

RUBY

🎼In living every day.

BERNARDO

     Exasperatedly

No, let it out, let it out. Don’t hold it. Don’t hold it! Ruby, no. If you're going to pick Joni Mitchell, you're going to sing it. This is one of the great songs.

RUBY

Walks dejectedly away from Bernardo

Yeah, I know.

BERNARDO

You either find a way to connect to it, or pick a different song.

Bernardo suddenly claps theatrically and walks to Ruby, shakes his arms back and forth and asks her to do it too, she follows reluctantly

Okay, come on. Shake your body. Shake it. Shake your arms. Now, sing back at me. 🎼Me, me, me, me…

Come on.

RUBY

Sings meekly

🎼Me, me, me, me.

BERNARDO

No, no you are holding it.

RUBY

I'm not.

BERNARDO

Yeah, you're trying to sound pretty.

RUBY

I'm not.

BERNARDO

Yes, you are.

     Both Ruby and Bernardo are frustrated with each other

BERNARDO

Okay. You said when you started school you talked funny. Funny how?

RUBY

(Dismissively)

I talked like a deaf person.

BERNARDO

What does a deaf person sound like?

RUBY

You know.

BERNARDO

No, no, I don't know. I want you to tell me.

RUBY

Different.

BERNARDO

Different how!?

RUBY

Like, wrong. Ugly.

BERNARDO

     Puts his hands on hips and challenges Ruby

Ugly? .. Okay. Make an ugly sound for me.

RUBY

What?

BERNARDO

Come on. Yeah. You think you were the only kid whoever got bullied? Whoever had a funny accent?

Bernardo faces Ruby and he gets her to extend her arms out. They lock hands, fingers intertwined,

BERNARDO

Look in my eyes. Push back in my hands as hard as you can. Push, push. Look at me. Make the ugliest, grossest sound you can. Come on!

Ruby growls at Bernardo like an animal and he growls back they exchange several growls and raws but Ruby’s heart is not really in it, she looks embarrassed.

BERNARDO Go! Be a monster!

Suddenly Ruby reaches down inside herself and lets loose a full throated passionate raw directly into Bernardo’s face.

BERNARDO

Now, sing at me !

RUBY

Ruby sings straight back at him with passion and a blaze in her eyes

🎼I've looked at life from both sides now. From win and lose and still somehow.

BERNARDO

Claps his hands enthusiastically

Yes! That's it! That's it. That's what I was waiting for.

Bernardo high fives a still stunned Ruby who then smiles and shakes her head END SCENE:

Lisa Zambetti: Hello! Welcome to Killer Casting. This is Lisa Zambetti, I’m probably best known as the Casting Director for CBS’ “Criminal Minds” and co-casting director for the FX series the pilot for “Reservation Dogs”, which I'm so, so proud of. And it seems to be doing really great on Hulu. I hope you're all watching it. But today is an example of exactly why I started this podcast.

It's because when I see a project like the film we're going to discuss today, one that fills me with such joy that has such an incomparable and indelible cast. I absolutely need to talk about it. I need to shout it out to the world and really not just praise it, but break it down. Why is it praiseworthy? What are the elements that make it (for me) as a Casting Director, as a former actor, as a director, as a writer  … what makes the film in question so exceptional?

And of course, I’m talking about the film CODA, written and directed by Sian Heder which is playing now on Apple TV Plus. It stars Marlee Matlin, Troy Kotsur, Emilia Jones, Daniel Durant, and Eugenio Derbez and boy, does it pay respect to each and every character in the film. Anyway, I don't want to talk about it by myself. I’ve got to chew it over with bigger and better minds in my own. So please say hello to my beautiful co-host the Thunder From Down Under, Dean Laffan. Hi, Dean.

Dean Laffan: Hi Lisa, good to see you, good to chat and discuss this unusual (for me), film.

Lisa Zambetti: For this particular movie, because it's so special. I'm probably going to start crying because it's just really moved me so much. I'm very protective of it. And I simply can't explain why it just moved me on so many levels. Anyway, I wanted to have on, an actor that I cast many, many years ago. She is an amazing actress, producer and a writer. She's also part of the deaf community and her name is Antoinette Abbamonte.

Antoinette, thank you so much for joining us. I was saying earlier you have not aged a day since I cast you in 2012. On a TV show called “The New Normal”. It's so good to see you!

Antoinette Abbamonte: Oh, thank you, Lisa. Thank you.

Lisa Zambetti: And I should say that you and I are able to hear Antoinette’s thoughts today because we're using an interpreter, the wonderful Nicole Pancino. Thank you for joining us, Nicole.

Antoinette, how are you?

Antoinette Abbamonte: I am doing great. I am enjoying life. I'm working now with some writers to make sure that the Deaf culture is properly representative and that we have really good strong leading characters and it's been so fun. And the important thing for me is I have to have fun doing it because that's how I know I'm going to continue doing something. That is just my thing and being creative and just pulling out whatever ideas I can, I've done that since I was a little girl. I just always love coming up with ideas, anything  … Sci-Fi … I've enjoyed all of it. And that's what we're working on now. It's a Sci-Fi project.

Lisa Zambetti: Oh cool. So I should tell our listeners and our viewers who are watching this because we're going to post this on YouTube. The Deaf community is not a monolith. There are people for whom, when Antoinette says proper representation, what that means to her could mean something completely different to other people in the community.

I don't know what she thought about CODA at all, I know that there are people who are championing it. And there are parts of the deaf community who aren't. And I've heard a couple of criticisms that stab me in the heart, but that's okay. But I just want to get from both you and Dean, your immediate hits off of it.

But I do want to break it down. What we do Antoinette is we really break down the movie, like we literally will go scene-to-scene to really dig in and analyze something and not just make assumptions. Because some of the criticisms I've heard, well I went back and rewatched the movie, and none of the things that they're talking about are actually in the movie. It's almost like those criticisms are assumptions that they've made about the movie, which is interesting. But anyway, tell me, what do you think of CODA?

Antoinette Abbamonte: Well, first, the word that comes to me is “wow”. And I really applaud the people who are working on that (film). The actors that they hired were deaf. So finally, we're having that kind of representation. It took (until) 2021 for that to happen. We need to be able to come in the door and watching the story, there are some deaf family stories that I can see are common in the world. So I think we should be able to see these authentic stories. I think that is by far the most important thing to get those deaf actors in, and (then) they're really doing the work. I can't say enough good things about them. Marlee Matlin, Troy Kotsur, Daniel Durant all did a fantastic job. And I completely support the work all of them did.

Lisa Zambetti: Oh, I'm so happy to hear that! I have so much to say, what you just said has just sparked so many ideas. Dean now, what did you think?

Dean Laffan: Well, when you first mentioned this film, and I looked at the trailer, and I'm thinking oh okay, a ‘feel good movie’. It's got elements of this and that (in that genre) . I (usually) tend towards the darker side of things with films, for instance, possibly my most hated film of all time, is Forrest Gump.

Lisa Zambetti: I don't think you're alone there …

Dean Laffan: I can't stand how manipulative it tries to be! I can't stand that it celebrates this kind of. … I'm probably going to use the wrong word, but I don't mean it maybe the way it comes out. But just the sort of celebration of ‘mediocrity’ or the idea that, oh anyone can do anything if you just keep running (Forrest!), if you just do this, life will be fine, and it all works out. Forest Gump asks you to participate in that kind of bullshit. That's how I feel about that movie.

So I'm looking at CODA thinking, ‘Oh here we go …’ So what is my reaction to this film .. ?  well like you, Lisa, I'm still choked up. This is an incredible film. I have not been moved by a film like this since .. I can’t even remember when. And I have a little bit of tears in my eyes now just thinking about it. And I don't cry in films!  I'm an Aussie bloke, we don't do that. But I'm sitting, watching this film. (And I knew from the trailer), I've even mentioned to you before, a week ago, I said, Oh my god, there's one scene in the trailer, I think this film is going to hit me. And I did tear up. And I choked up at a couple of other points in the film. And then there was one point in the film where I completely and utterly lost my shit, and I had tears streaming down my face. I can't remember the last time I felt hot tears on my face watching a film.

It is the most beautiful, beautiful film. And what I love about it is that it is so incredibly true. And I don't mean that it's a documentary. You know what I mean … What I mean is that it is full of truth, (as far as I understand it). Well the performances are anyway, I can't speak to any experience of being deaf. But it's authentic, (it feels authentic), and it's just incredibly moving. So I was simply so happy to see this film. Very, very happy.

Lisa Zambetti: Yeah. And when you say it strikes you as true, I mean for me, obviously, I'm not deaf, but I am a mom. And I do have teenagers who are about to go out into the world. I understand what it's like for a family to struggle. I understand what it's like to feel isolated or just feel … I mean … there's so many things that just hit me watching it.  And Antoinette I want you to talk about who Troy Kotsur is to the acting community. And I should say, (and I wish Jim Clemente were here), we cast Troy on Criminal Minds as a serial killer the year before I started on Criminal Minds. And would you believe I only found that out today. Troy came in for the same series that I cast you on. Okay, he came in for a role … I think it was to play your husband and that's the first time I met him but I've seen him so many times. Talk about who he is, and why we are cheering the fact that so many more people in the world will now know of his genius.

Antoinette Abbamonte: His use of sign language is out of this world. He puts so much in, and he loves to really become whatever character he's portraying. He'll take risks, which I appreciate in his work. I think that is absolutely astounding. And in CODA, there was so much color there.

Lisa Zambetti: Yeah, well, we swear all the time on this show. And so I really appreciated his just poetic use of profanity and dirtiness. I just fucking loved it. I mean, he just went there.  Antoinette, the things that he signed, are they in the ASL or is he improvising? Is he making things up .. I'm just so ignorant about it. What do you have to say about that?

Antoinette Abbamonte: Well, from my understanding for this film, you could do some improvisation, you don't have to have the script exactly in mind. But having not looked at the script, I'm not sure how much of it was just kind of, him going his own direction. For me, the way he expressed himself in sign language? … I'm not sure if we would do that, in real life with our deaf family to talk to our own daughters, (as he did) with his daughter, I mean, to me it felt a little too much. But he may have made the choice to do that to really have as much fun as possible. And I'm not sure what his intentions were about the way he performed it though …

Lisa Zambetti: Yeah. Well, I mean, I don't know is there really a sign for ‘twat waffle’? (Laughs) Or, you know, any of those very colorful words that the brother and sister have for each other. I just thought that was so great.

Antoinette Abbamonte: Well, I was just going to say, teenagers, high school aged, people who go to schools of the deaf, yeah, you're probably going to see that kind of dirty sign language going on, that kind of graphic (signing) it's a sign language, because it's very evocative of what it looks like. And so you'll see that a lot for deaf teenagers. I don't know that you'd see that kind of language used in home environments. We're talking about siblings here. I came from a deaf family. My parents are deaf, my brother is deaf. We certainly never did anything along those lines. We don't have those kinds of discussions about sex in my life at all. That was not part of what we did. My parents moved in from another country so I don't know if that possibly influenced it. Maybe here in the United States, deaf families would be that way. That just wasn't what it was for mine, so I can't speak to others.

Lisa Zambetti: I wanted to mention to people who haven't seen the movie yet, can you just define what does CODA mean? In terms of this movie, Antoinette?

Antoinette Abbamonte: Oh, sure. CODA (Child Of Deaf Adult). So a child who has Deaf parents. There's also a CODA spelled KODA (Kid Of Deaf Adults), that's for a young kid of deaf adults. And in a way I'm a CODA too, who just happened to be deaf because I am a child who had Deaf parents.

Lisa Zambetti: That's right.

Antoinette Abbamonte: And I very much supported my parents, especially my mom, because as I mentioned earlier, she moved from another country with a different language, a different sign language, so she had to learn ASL from my dad. My father moved here when he was 10, and went to a residential school for deaf students so he learned ASL, but when my mom moved here, she was 22. So she didn't know American Sign Language. She had to learn that after she got here, so I remember I had to help her out with reading English because she wasn't comfortable with reading English. And we used to have this old ‘teletypewriter’ they were called, to make phone calls typewritten out into written language. So I had to help my mom make her phone calls. And she eventually had to go and learn English in school. So that was my experience. So I can see a little bit of that experience for me, from what I saw in the film.

Dean Laffan: The other thing as well Lisa in terms of the film is that CODA, (as we know, from Francis Ford Coppola’s film ‘CODA: The Death of Michael Corleone’) that CODA in musical terms, is a passage that brings the particular piece of music to an end, which, of course, is what the film is kind of about.

Lisa Zambetti: Right. So if you haven't seen the film, it is about this family of four where it happens to be, that three of the members (Mom Dad and the eldest brother) are deaf, and the youngest child (Ruby) is not and it's a movie where we really get a snapshot of what their life is like, being these fishermen in Gloucester and how Ruby’s got to help her family. She's grown to help her family, but clearly they had the ability to make this business run long before she was born. So it's not like they're helpless and they can't survive without her. But I think as in many farming families or fishing families, the children become enveloped in the parents work. And it's just the sort of seamless thing that you do the family business. And now this is the time for her to figure out how to break out of that, is she going to break out of it? And it's just an amazing story in that way that I think so many families can relate to whether you're in the hearing community or not.

Dean Laffan: By the way, Lisa, how much are we going to plot spoil here?

Lisa Zambetti: Oh, the whole thing.

Dean Laffan: Everything? Okay. So warning, folks.

Lisa Zambetti: I want people to love the film.

Dean Laffan: If this sounds interesting to you turn the podcast off now. (Or stop reading this transcript) Go and watch the film, and then come back and listen to the rest of the podcast. Because it is hard to talk about the film and give it the love which it deserves without spoiling the plot. So please, press Pause. Come back and pick us up where you left off.

Lisa Zambetti: But one of the things that makes Troy so believable is that he has that sort of weathered, wizened face of someone who has spent their whole life on the sea. And the way he uses his body … he’s got these great bandy, bow legs when he walks around and his body is just so relaxed and settled into itself. I just loved that. And his emotion as he's struggling to figure out how to keep his business literally afloat. Should he push his daughter to leave and go to college? But it's so much easier to have her stay and he is trying to understand what it means for her to sing. Because it seems her singing is something that just comes out of the blue. What did you think of that plot Antoinette and Dean, how suddenly this daughter who apparently has been singing even though music was not really a part of her, the way it is in other singers lives.

Antoinette Abbamonte: Speaking for myself, I have my son here with me. In fact, he's 20 now. When he was much younger, I'd say maybe when he was 5,6 or 7 years old ? I worked so hard to encourage him to go out and take music classes, to take drumming, guitar, you name it, and he kept saying he didn't want to, but I'm the one who kept pushing him to go do that. I would take him there myself, even as a deaf person, because I wanted to see my child really have a full experience of his world. Because I feel that if I want people to respect me and my deaf world, it's important for me to respect him and the hearing world, so it's a two way street. I've very much believed it was important to encourage any child who's hearing to go out and experience the world. Eventually, my son became a composer for guitar. He absolutely adores guitar, and he's so into that, I've got more pictures of him playing the guitar than I can tell you. So I'm happy that he got to that point, it made me feel so good to see my child have that kind of success. That made me feel really great.

So when I was watching this film, I just kept saying, this is just not how it was in my family. And I don't have my children interpret for me, if I go to the store or anything along those lines. When they were really young, I remember clear as day, that there was some sort of comments where I was like, you just you can't do that to children. You can't make your children someone you have to rely on to interpret for you. Because then you start manipulating them, and (then) they don't have their own lives for themselves. And I did not want that to happen for my kids. So I made a very conscious effort.

And there was a lot of times that I'd be in a store and the store owner would say, “Oh could your little kids just interpret for me?” And I would say no, let's you and I figure this out, we'll use gestures, we'll use written back and forth language, whatever we have to do. I really wanted to have that directly without having to bring my kids into it. On rare occasions, if the kids saw that I missed something, they might interpret something for me. And I would always appreciate it. But I made sure that was as rare as possible, because I wanted them to have their own healthy, independent lives.

Lisa Zambetti: You say that your son plays the guitar, (and Dean maybe this is the scene that really got you.) If you've watched your son play guitar, you can't hear but maybe you can feel it, you can feel the vibration on the instrument. But I just love this scene where the parents are watching this concert and they're not really emotionally affected by it because they can't hear it. And they're looking around and being very polite, but I just love the ‘peek’ into that world. I love that they took the sound out of the film at that time and you're seeing what they see, and you're hearing what they're (not hearing) … they're not missing anything, they don't know that they're missing anything. And then later when Troy has his daughter sing, and he's feeling her voice, I mean, Dean, was that one of your tear jerking moments? Because for me, I fell apart.

Dean Laffan: Yeah, that was a beautiful scene. And just one of the things that makes this such great film is that because of the nature of what the story is about, so many scenes are totally unique to me as a [person with hearing. I hate people who say ‘very unique’ and I just said ‘totally unique’, but it is. It's totally unique because I haven't seen a film like this with deaf characters interacting with non-deaf characters, so many things suddenly struck me with a dawning Oh, yeah, oh, that is going to happen. This whole story is on the face of it, clichéd. Its written clichéd. The performances (could be) clichéd, you've got the kind of grumpy old dad, you've got the kind of kooky mom, you've got the eldest child Leo, the older brother of Ruby, who feels he should be the one in charge, but he can't be because .. well not ‘can't be’, but he is pushed aside a little bit, because he's deaf and his sister is not. And you've got the inspirational music teacher …

This is all set up for bullshit. But guess what? it just fucking works. It works its ass off. It's because of the casting and the performances, it's just so special. So yes, that particular scene where he's got his hands on her throat … and I wondered Lisa …(putting your Real Crime Profile hat on). There's a difference between him doing this (Dean indicates on camera with his hands) and a difference between him doing that (indicates again) in terms of acting. Did you notice that? That he used the back of his hands, not the front of his hands around her throat.

Lisa Zambetti: I didn't.

Dean Laffan: So it wasn't a ‘choking’ type of a gesture. He's got both hands against her throat and against her sort of larynx. But he hasn't got his palms closed, like he was choking her. He's using the backs of his fingers. And he's feeling the vibration, it's beautifully tender. As is the moment where she's freaked out about singing face to face to, what's his name… ?

Lisa Zambetti: Miles, his name is Miles.

Dean Laffan: Right, Miles. So they stand back to back. And I'm looking at them touching back to back and I'm thinking that's an oddly very intimate pose. You're touching backs, and you're touching bums. And you can feel each other's breath. It's just wonderful filmmaking. But no, the scene that really … I just fell to pieces over, was during the Joni Mitchell song at her audition for Berklee and she started … here I ago. (Dean’s voice catches) She just started signing. And you can see in her mind she just thinks, “Fuck it. I'm just going to do it. I'm going to let out what I feel. And I'm going to show you, this is who I am.” And I was just like “wow”.

Lisa Zambetti: And include her parents in it. Right?

Dean Laffan: I KNOW! Yes. Exactly.

Lisa Zambetti: She sings to them … for them. Oh, my God.

Dean Laffan: Bravo.

Antoinette Abbamonte: She was born knowing that language before she knew English.

Dean Laffan: Another scenee that just broke me out of nowhere was after she comes back home and she said she wants to go to the music school. And they've just gotten the co-op off the ground. They're saying how can you leave and her parents say, we need you … we need you to translate. Ruby replies, “I've been doing this my whole life and it's exhausting”. And they're putting it (the responsibility) on her. But she just wants to do what she wants to do (follow her heart). And what incredible lines the characters have here and there that are just so moving and so affecting, I was blown away.

Antoinette Abbamonte: And I really wanted to see more of the mother daughter relationship. That's what I really was craving more of, because I felt like there was a real missed opportunity there. I so wanted to see the two of them really develop a connection. I missed not having that.

Lisa Zambetti: Well, you know, I rewatched it today. And Dean, I hear what you say about that there are a certain amount of cliché in it, but then I have to push back on that because they really turn those clichés around because the mom isn't really kooky. It's just interesting. She's vain, in some ways. And that's okay. Like a mom can be vain. She's sexy, in a very grounded and natural way. She's still hot for her husband, and she doesn't want to talk to those hearing bitches! …  and who blames her, you know what I mean? You understand she has a world that she has worked fucking hard for. She has got this family, she's got this business, and she loves her daughter, and (Antoinette, I re-watched it just before we came on).

There are some beautiful scenes where the mom says, when you were born, I hoped you were deaf. And when you weren't, I was afraid. I was so afraid. And also, she admits to her husband. It's not that we need her to survive to interpret for us, but she's our baby and she's leaving. That's really what the crux is, that my baby is leaving home. And the easiest way to keep her even if it's just subconsciously, is to say, we need you for the family. And I can just imagine lots and lots of families, working families who probably say the same thing sometimes to their kids who are going to go off to the big city. It’s so scary to think of your baby in the big city. And Ruby even says “I've never done anything without my family”. It's not only that the family's never done anything without her, but she's never done anything without them.

And the music teacher I'd like to talk about him, Eugenio.

Antoinette Abbamonte: Oh, I love that character! I loved him. He’s the best.

Lisa Zambetti: Yeah, as a drama teacher myself and having taught drama in college, teaching is really hard. Talk about exhausting.

Antoinette Abbamonte: I was just going to say “Mr.V” I was trying to remember his name .. “Mr. V”

Lisa Zambetti: Right Mr.V … (Lisa rolls the ‘r’ big time) “Berrrrrrrrrnardo!”  By the way he is a huge freaking star in Mexico.

Dean Laffan: Of all the actors in this film, this guy who I've never seen before, the first time we see him, the camera was on him, he's sitting at the piano. He hasn't even said anything. And already, I'm wondering, “Who the hell is THIS guy?” wow. And then within the first five seconds, as great as this cast is, (and the casting of Emilia is by the way superb) as is the rest of the cast, there's only one false note in the casting, and I'll cover that later … but it's nothing major.

But him (the actor Eugenio Derbez) Once he opened his mouth, it was like the wattage of his performance was amazing. I'm sorry (to the rest of the cast) but whenever he was on screen, he just glows at like twice or three times the luminance of anyone else in the scene. And when I looked him up, yeah, he is like the biggest megastar in Latin America. And because I'm thinking, well, he's coming out of nowhere … no he hasn't Dean, you’re just ignorant and he’s actually a super star.

Lisa Zambetti: Yes, he has that confidence of somebody who's a star in another country.

Dean Laffan: Absolutely.

Lisa Zambetti: And this is the thing about when you're teaching for high school or for college, in the arts, you can give so much to students, and you're trying to set a bar for them, and you're working so hard for them. It's really exhausting. And what I loved about him is that he came in with sass and brass and this uncompromising behavior. He kid of says  “This is the bar and if you can't take it? … then fucking leave.” But he wasn't cruel, this isn't (the movie) ‘Whiplash’, or anything like that. But he's like, look, if you're going to work, I will work too, but if you're not going to work, I'm not going to kill myself to get you there. And that's an important thing. Because in my experience, trying to get actors to where they need to be, it's just so hard, and you're giving everything you can to the student, and you're rooting for them, and you kind of start doing all the work for them. And I just felt like this movie pays a lot of respect to the art of teaching and when Ruby is pissed off at him. And she says, well, what did Berklee College ever do for you? … you know what? Teaching doesn't mean you're a failure at your craft. Teaching is fucking hard, to be a good teacher and get your students to where they need to be. It can break your heart, students can really break your heart.

[Scene from the film ‘CODA’]

FADE IN:

INT. WE ARE BACK IN THE HOME OF MR.VILLALOBOS –- AFTERNOON

MR V sits at his piano in the same airy music room of his house. Late afternoon sun slants through the large picture windows of his house. He plays a tender piece on the piano, he’s introspective … wistful. Ruby arrives and stands at the door of the room, leaning quietly against the door frame. She’s out of view of Bernardo, he doesn’t know she’s there. She is waiting for the right time to announce her presence. She’s late for practice (again) and she knows Bernardo will be upset.

RUBY

Is that yours?

Bernardo stops playing, takes a deep breath, sighs and

     gives Ruby a side glance before looking away.

RUBY

Sorry.

I want to do this.

Bernardo folds up his sheet music and walks past Ruby to his desk

BERNARDO

                     I don't think so.

Ruby walks to face Bernardo from the opposite side of his desk, both standing

RUBY

Are you serious?

BERNARDO

You have no discipline. You are late. You are unprepared. You wouldn’t last two days at Berklee. Out … Go!

RUBY

(Dismissively)  It's not like that school of yours did you any good?

Bernardo sighs and shakes his head with a smile

BERNARDO

You have what? … 17 years on this planet? You don't know shit. You want to know why I am a teacher? I'm good at this. But I can't do my job unless you do yours. And I certainly don't need a lesson in failure from someone who's too afraid to even try.

END SCENE:

Lisa Zambetti: I loved that respect to that character. What else Antoinette? Do you have anything to jump into?

Antoinette Abbamonte: I know for me, as a deaf actor, (an actor who happens to be deaf is a better way to say it.) People say you have to look at the actor first. But right now, I’m feeling like it's really starting to have an impact out there … of deaf experience and what it is, and that it's okay to be a deaf person. And a lot of people haven't had the opportunity to see a whole lot of deaf people out there. We've historically been shunted to the side. But now we're starting to see some floodgates open up, and you're starting to see more and more deaf people out there. And it takes away a lot of that, wanting to hide behind things. And now we can start looking at the talent. Let's talk about their talent. The fact that they're deaf? We can discuss that later. But right now let's look at their talent. And I see it happening. I think it's going to happen. I would love to have it be (that its about) who I am first, I’m Antoinette and I'm a mom, and I'm a wife or a partner, whatever. I like to be seen that way first and not going. “Hey, look, it's the deaf person”. I have many layers in me. I am multitude, it's now becoming much less than it was.

Lisa Zambetti: So here's what I want to say about casting for a couple of shows where yeah, it's great when a writer will write a part for a deaf character. And that's great because we want to have representation and tell those stories. But Rebecca Silverman and I, on Criminal Minds, we kept wanting to just cast actors who happened to be deaf, no matter even if the role didn't call for it. And I have to say that we would talk to a Line Producer and lets suppose my idea was to have a deaf actor play a medical examiner, because I thought that was just be so cool. With no explanation. It's just why not? I'm sure that there are deaf doctors and deaf medical examiners, and that would be fine. And actually one of the series regulars on Criminal Minds, they have established that he did sign, and I thought there would probably need to be an interpreter. If there's a medical examiner talking to the FBI and telling them his or her findings about a murder victim, there would need to be an interpreter, and (the view from the Line Producers) was that the hiring of the interpreter was like, “Oh that would just be an extra expense. I don't think we can really do that”. It was just easier to say no. But if it was a written as a deaf actor, there was no problem though, that the production would pay for the interpreter or do whatever else that needs to be done, but to actually say “Hey maybe we could have this be a wheelchair-using actor, this seems like a good situation. It’s not they are going to be running across a field chasing after a bad guy. This is like a perfect situation for somebody who's on wheelchair”. But it just seems that if it's not in the script, there's no green light to just bring in the actors. And I know that that is going to change. And hopefully, maybe a movie like CODA will help push it along. And you can see, yeah, someone can be a lobsterman or fisherman and be deaf, but you can be anything and be deaf. But it's hard because you don't want to fight against your producer, you want to do what's best for the show.

Antoinette Abbamonte: Yeah, and both of those characters, just like with both of my parents who were tailors they made clothes … you just do your job, and you can be deaf at the same time if there is no limitations, so I couldn't agree more, we need to have more deaf people represented.

I am producing a film now in fact, called “Implant”. And I'm working with Warren Zide, and the writer, Dwayne Alexander Smith, two of them very big in their field. And they had never worked with a deaf person before. This is their first experience in doing that. So with my company, we have an item in our budget for an interpreter, money already earmarked for me to meet with them. And that way we can talk about the money and investment and everything after that. But I want to make sure there's a line item in there for the interpreter, because that's important for me. And just a couple of weeks ago, I went with the writer, and I brought an interpreter with me. And you saw all these ideas sparking in the room. And you could see that the writer was really ready to put it in there. It was helpful. It was helpful for me to work with the writer in the room right there. It was amazing.

Lisa Zambetti: That is incredible.

Antoinette Abbamonte: That's why I wanted to create my company so I could produce these films that I want to see.

Lisa Zambetti: Yeah, exactly. And if you need a casting director … Hi, I’m available.

Dean Laffan: I just want people to understand also that this film is sweet, and touching and uplifting. And as I said, not normally the sort of movie that I would go, wow, I want to see another one of these. But it's just so well done. But can I say, this thing is funny as all get out. It is funny all the time. It's not at the expense of anyone (usually). There was one scene where I just burst out into load uproarious laughter. I was watching early in the morning down in the lounge room, and I think I must have woken people up .. It was the scene where there's the town meeting or if you will the ‘fishermen's meeting’ with the fish buyers who are underpaying the fishermen for their catch, and Ruby’s father Franks has had enough. He uses his chair to stamp on the wooden floor and as he signs something. He tells Ruby to stand up. And I'm thinking oh, she's reticent to get up and translate for him. She's shy. Now, remember she has just come from the session with Bernardo where he gets her to do ugly sounds, and he finally gets to engage, let stuff out and find her voice (literally). And so in public she's been a bit of a shrinking violet up to this point. So when Frank signs she lan tells her to say it, she looks up at the guy, the assholes that were the fish buyers (and these were the characters that I thought were just slightly cartoonish. Yeah they were the ‘bad guys’ and they were very one dimensional, but that's okay. I don't even care because the film is that good. And anyway, they are assholes). So she turns to them  and emphatically says “Suck my dick!” And follows up with “Oh, by the way, that's from him, not me.”  Hilarious.

Lisa Zambetti: One of the other things I really admired about the movie is that although Ruby is bullied and made fun of throughout her high school career and it must really suck. But then there's a moment where her love interest Miles says “You have the perfect life”. And it's just struck me that is so true, that from the outside, everybody's life seems so put together. And he to her, he seems like the perfect guy who's got everything going from him. He’s so popular, everybody likes him, and yet she doesn't realize, that to him, she's got this great family, fishing is such a cool job and he's seen her in town with her parents. You don't know what other people are thinking. I just thought that was such a great observation that we're so stuck in our insecurities.

Antoinette Abbamonte: That is so true. That happened to me in my life. I remember growing up and I went to school which was with all hearing kids. There was sometimes when I was in school with other deaf kids, but most of the time I was with other hearing kids and I would get bullied and mocked and teased, like you wouldn't believe. And it was really tough for me. And now I look at my son, and I see him getting teased (even as) a hearing person. So I'm like, “Oh, teasing just kind of happens and it's okay”. People move on. It's not the end of the world or anything. I learned a lot from looking at my two kids. I'll tell you that.

Dean Laffan: Can I just say, Lisa, that the character of Ruby is so well cast and she plays a great arc within the movie. The actress Emilia Jones.

Lisa Zambetti: She's British.

Dean Laffan: Yes, she's British. Yes, exactly.

Lisa Zambetti: And she plays the daughter. Yeah.

Dean Laffan: And she has a certain character, even from the beginning, even though she was shy and unassuming. Nonetheless, for example when the fish buyers were giving her brother Leo too little money for their fish she stood up and pushed back against the prices  . And it's a little old fashioned to use this term But, you know what she's got? She's got ‘moxie’.

Lisa Zambetti: Moxie, yeah!

Dean Laffan: This kid has got Moxie .. I don’t know how you translate that. Sorry, Nicole! But yeah, she's got gumption, she won't take shit from anyone, even though she's very quiet. And then, of course, she progresses throughout to have that characteristic and be strong. But it's there from the get-go anyway, and I just thought that she was a terrific character. And when you pushed back against me for saying that the movie was clichéd. And I was like, yeah, I know. But my point is it then confoundsthe clichés.

So here, you've got the classic story of the rich boy, poor girl. (It's often the other way around) And in the scene where she brings him to the house for the first time. It's a tracking shot and the camera picks them up walking in a long pan all the way top their home. She's apologizing for the house and he's saying no, it's great… it's fine. They did everything except cross a literal set of railroad tracks! He's from the wrong side of the tracks. He's the rich boy who's supposed to have the perfect life. But his parents don’t talk to each other. They don't have sex. And then of course, we get straight into that. Here's the comedy again right? So there's the scene with Frank and Jackie, the deaf parents having sex so loudly, they don't know that the kids can hear them. And then cut; Mom and Dad are sitting on the couch, like Oh my God, we got busted having sex. And she's telling them off, saying you can't do this. And it's like an inversion of the trope. She's the mom and that's the teenage kids that were having sex. That was hilarious! So then Frank does the whole scene about the condom thing. And she's just totally embarrassed and storms out of the house with Miles. And then they cut back to the parents on the couch. And they just burst out laughing.  We understand then tha he did it (The embarrassing condom miming scene) to get rid of her. It's just so well written.

Lisa Zambetti: That was so great. Yeah, Antoinette I loved that peek into the life of a family who is deaf, like the flicking on and off the light to wake somebody up, or just all the little nuances of what it is. If you're the hearing person in the family, and everybody's always making noise and banging pots and pans … It was just great to see a peek into what that's like.

Antoinette Abbamonte: Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. It was very authentic.

Lisa Zambetti: I don't know if you're aware of this, but this movie was based actually on a French film called “La Famille Bélier”.

Antoinette Abbamonte: Yes, I had just learned that. And I haven't seen that original French film personally. So I can't really talk about how it compares. I was just going to ask if either of you seen that film?

Lisa Zambetti: I haven't. But I do know that Lionsgate bought the rights to redo the film. And there's a lot of controversy with that film because they did not use deaf actors. Now, that could never happen on network television, or any production company I've ever worked with. Because if it's supposed to be a deaf actor in this day and age, you cannot cast a hearing actor. My studio would never ever allow that to happen. If you couldn't find an actor to do the role, then you'd have to change the role instead of putting a hearing person in there.

But anyway, in the La Famille Bélier they had some hearing actors doing the role. So there's a lot of controversy and so when they went to make this version of it, there was some push to have fancier non-hearing actors play the role of the father and the brother and good for Marlee Matlin who said; “No, if you do this, I'm walking. I will leave this film”. She's going to be the marquee, she's going to be what gets this greenlit, what gets it pushed forward. So good for her for fighting and also good for her for not making this a vanity production for herself. She doesn't try to shine herself brighter than anybody she's in the film with. Another actress might have tried to make the narrative more about her. She was just very generous.

Dean Laffan: Oh, yeah.

Lisa Zambetti: She was just very generous in the scenes she’s in with other people, and letting other people shine, letting Troy get all the big teary moments. I thought that was just fantastic of her to do that.

Antoinette Abbamonte: We really should absolutely all support each other and for her in the deaf community and all of us. Yeah, we all have to be out there and supporting each other because once we start infighting, then we'll never really get anywhere. We have to really let go and just support everyone else for the betterment of all, for the success of all, so more actors can follow behind us. It is so critical.

Dean Laffan: I was thinking when we're talking before about children and deaf children and CODA, how we teach kids, (primary school kids even high school kids) we teach them French, we teach them Italian, would it really kill us to teach them some signing ? perhaps not learn the entire ASL but at least if you could learn to say the basics. Because I just realized I meant to look up how to say “thank you and goodbye” to Antoinette and I didn't have time. And I don't know, I think it's something like this. (Dean gestures) But I don't want to say anything rude … we know that happened in the film! So especially for primary school kids to teach them to sign. Hello. Goodbye. Thank you. Just basic conversational stuff. I mean, you can travel through Europ, if you know about 20 words, surely we can all learn 20 words of ASL or whatever language is in your country. If someone's deaf, we wouldn’t have to, write something down. If we could sign ‘Hello’ ‘How are you?’ ‘I'm sorry’. I just realized that should be a thing. It shouldn't even be a thing. It should just be done. But it's not.

Antoinette Abbamonte: Yeah, absolutely. I think that's absolutely fantastic. Yeah, to have that exposure to different languages and not just ASL but spoken languages. It just the more you find out there, for both of my boys, they learned a lot. They learned some Spanish, they learned some French, (spoken of course). And they already had American Sign Language (ASL) from their home environment, but it just helps them to interact with other people. And it just is so much easier to develop a relationship and rapport with other people. I think that's critical for children to learn as many languages as possible, and really become comfortable with them.

Lisa Zambetti: I remember seeing a production of Children of a Lesser God, the play, which of course, is probably one of the most famous plays and movies about the deaf community.

Antoinette Abbamonte: (Cuts in) I have to say it! … I don’t like that play.

Lisa Zambetti: I know. I know …

Antoinette Abbamonte: Yeah … the ‘deaf angry woman’.

Lisa Zambetti: I know … I know. It's a product of its time, it was actually written specifically for the deaf actress Phyllis Frelich and it has a whole history of its own. But anyway, I was watching the play and I could see backstage that the stagehands had learned ASL, because it's so much easier to communicate backstage and actually on set even, because you have to be quiet, and so they could communicate soundlessly across backstage by using ASL. So it's such a rich language for us to learn anyway. And certainly for actors. It's such a great physical experience in gesture and expression communication, I'm obsessed with that anyway.

Antoinette Abbamonte: Actors should learn ASL because it gives them movement to their body. I can't tell you how many times I've gone to see a play, like Shakespeare. And there are a lot of hearing actors that just stand there and the only thing that moves is their mouth. And they don't do anything else with their body. I’m like “Give us some movement here!” So I think that had these people had a chance to take ASL classes, they would learn how to be more comfortable in their body and move it. I think absolutely every actor out there, bar none should learn it.

Lisa Zambetti: Absolutely. Absolutely.

Dean Laffan: I just realized that what you were saying Lisa, about the stage hands learning ASL, that reminded me … I have a background in cave diving and of course, you can't speak underwater. And particularly you can't speak in the dark. Cave diving is a fairly specific activity. So we only use a limited vocabulary things like, (Dean open and closes the fingers of one hand) I’m flashing my hands to make our sign for ‘light’ This sign (indicates) for ‘Okay’, A question mark is a crooked finger, to indicate a line tangle you you do this with your hands(Cosses middle finger over pointer and draws a figure 8 in the air), on YouTube you'll see I'm just making a knot sign with my fingers. We use one hand to count to 10 with 1 to 5 being with upright fingers then numbers 6 – 10 are represented by the same fingers but now pointing sideways.  Human beings have been doing this for a while. We just need to do more of it.

Lisa Zambetti: Well, I'm so happy to have had you here today Antoinette. It's so good to see you after so many years and to see you doing so well and to be able to share my absolute ‘gushiness’ about this movie. And also I just want to start this campaign, I am banging the drum … an Oscar for Troy. I mean he 100% deserves an Oscar for this performance. I want to hashtag it everywhere and for all of his performances. By the way, I've seen him in a production of Deaf West’s ‘Big River’, just before the pandemic. I was at this very random, private reading, where he and Deanne, (he's married to the beautiful actress who also happens to be deaf, Deanne Bray) and they were in this reading together. And I went up to him and I meant to say, ‘Thank you’, but I think I did something else. And he looked at me like; “What the fuck is she saying to me?” I think I went like this (indicates). I don't know what that means, but I meant to say ‘thank you’. What does this mean .. Please? Does this mean please or love? (indicates).

Antoinette Abbamonte: It can mean please. Yeah.

Lisa Zambetti: No wonder he was confused. I was saying “please, can you please.”

Antoinette Abbamonte: It could also mean “thank you”

Lisa Zambetti: Okay. Anyway, I've been a fan of his for decades. And it's about time that other people know of his brilliance. And everybody else in the cast was awesome, too. But he really is the touchstone in it. There's just nobody like him. And I just can't imagine another performance reaching, doing, what he did.

Antoinette Abbamonte: Yes, I couldn't agree more. We need more deaf males out there doing that for younger deaf boys to look up to and younger deaf men to look up to, because we really haven't had that representation. He's the one we have right now. Marlee Matlin, we have for younger women to look up to. But I'd love to see more diversity. I think that would be awesome for children and people like him, to look up to. And I love your idea about the Oscars push.

Lisa Zambetti: Absolutely. And I wanted to recommend some other places where you can see amazing actors who are deaf. There's a series called “The Society” which is amazing. Of course, there's a “Sound of Metal”, there's “The Quiet Place”, “One and Two”, are there any others and “Switched at Birth”. I know a lot of those actors who are in that show. Antoinette any other movies or anything you want to recommend?

Antoinette Abbamonte: Well, my film that is out now. It's called “Since August”. I’m playing a lead character in that along with a hearing actor from Russia. And it's in film festivals, right now the Shanghai International Film Festival has it nominated. The whole movie is an ASL, there is almost no spoken language. It's also now being streamed in New York at the Winter Awards Film Festival. They selected us to be screened, I think that's going to be happening soon. So I hope you both have an opportunity to see that. It's an excellent story.

Lisa Zambetti: Oh, I would love it. Actually I tried to see CODA at Sundance, but I couldn't get a ticket. But I would love to see “Since August” and encourage our listeners to go see it as well.

Antoinette Abbamonte: I loved to work with the hearing actress Sabina from Russia, I will send you the information so you can see it.

Lisa Zambetti: Awesome. Awesome. All right. Anything else Dean, you want to say before we say goodbye?

Dean Laffan: No, I think I'm old gushed out, that’s way more emotion than I'm used to sharing. But it was such a beautiful film. I'm going to recommend it. I'm just going to post it everywhere. Everyone should see this film. It is just a beautiful film.

Lisa Zambetti: And I also want to thank Nicole Pancino, who's here. She's been interpreting for Antoinette. I know it is really exhausting for Nicole to be doing this. So I want to thank her very much.

Dean Laffan: Well done Nicole because you've now been going for an hour solid plus the show preamble. And I know from my other world, where I'm a live event Producer. When we have people signing on-stage for our love events, they rotate out at 15 minute intervals. So you've done a huge job today. So thank you so much.

Nicole Pancino: You're welcome.

Lisa Zambetti: All right. Thank you so much. Take good care, everybody. And for now this is Killer Casting signing off.

Podcast Credits:

Killer Casting was created and produced by Lisa Zambetti. Sound Editing by Dean Laffan from Real World Productions. Logo art by April Laffan. Theme Music provided by Amphibious Zoo music. And big fat opinions provided by Brian Alan Hill.

Lisa can’t be the only parent who loves binging through old (or semi old) comedies with their kids, now that you can stream almost anything, anytime, anywhere.

It is always interesting to go back and see if the comedy holds up, or alternatively what is so cringy you have to shut your eyes, ears and hold your nose….as well as tell your kids “now that thing they said, or did, was WRONG. It was wrong then and it is still wrong now”. It can lead to some good conversations.

Anyway, after running through Seinfeld, Friends, Scrubs, The Office, Parks and Rec, Modern Family, Big Bang Theory, Odd Couple, Lisa and the boys reached back to fire up Cheers.

There are tons of great casting stories and lore that go along with this era defining show, including who was “almost” cast as “Sam” and “Diane”. Hint: we narrowly missed having Cliff Huxtable own a bar. So join Lisa and Paul as they pour a cold one in honor of place where everybody knows your name.

In this episode, we dive into the controversial release of the man previously known as 'America's Dad' ... who is now known as a predatory, sociopathic rapist. Yes, that would be Bill Cosby, the man who abused his public persona as one of the most trustworthy and beloved actor/comedians to drug and rape dozens of unsuspecting women. Mostly our pods are fun, but sometimes we need to shine a light on the cockroaches that lurk in the dark. This is one of those episodes. Your regular pod pilots Lisa, Brian and Dean are firmly in command  and excited to be joined by Hollywood royalty in the form of the ridiculously talented Actor/Director Aisha Tyler from Archer, Bojack Horseman, Criminal Minds and Friends. https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0878768/ Sitting alongside Aisha in the interwebs studio, we are also humbled to have Jarvis George, he of the TV series Dave, Consequences, Criminal Minds, Desperate Housewives and a bunch of BRAND NEW stuff, that you'll just have to listen to the pod to learn about. https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0313462/ Aisha also has her own wildly successful boutique liquor business ... and YOU can order online right here ! https://www.courageandstone.com I'm sorry .. what ?  You don't believe us ?  Well see here for yourself you doubting Thomas you ...  (sheesh) https://www.thespiritsbusiness.com/2020/08/aisha-tyler-courage-stone/ 

Annnnnd this I sKC-Heavy turning 270 zero for home. Blue skies and tailwinds everyone.

Genchi Genbutso is a Japanese phrase. The English meaning of which, translates as 'Go to the Source'. It means when you want to fix a problem or find out the true facts about something, you have to eliminate all the in-between (!)  steps and get your information direct from the source. So welcome to the final Genchi Genbutso version of our Mr Inbetween cast/crew episodes. To close out our Mr Inbetween deep dive in grand style, we sit down with Director/Stuntman/Writer/Producer/Editor ... the one and only Nash Edgerton. Note:  There is a brief cameo by Dean's dog 'Mr. Sirius' at the 2:30 mark !  Enjoy. **********  EXTRAS ********** Aside from feature film and tv, Nash was recently the go-to man for none other than Bob Dylan. Check out these AMAZING four 'short films' (aka music videos) that Nash created for Bob. Must be Santa (Nash is the party crasher!) https://youtu.be/a8qE6WQmNus Bob Dylan - Duquesne Whistle - (brother Joel is the gangster thug) https://youtu.be/mns9VeRguys Bob Dylan - Beyond Here Lies Nothin' (explicit domestic violence and what fantastic metaphor for addiction and violence) https://youtu.be/7TbmP2vXeQs Bob Dylan - The Night We called it a Day https://youtu.be/iOxy_hy22CA Check out these two hilarious short films by Nash. (10 min ea) Spider -  https://youtu.be/Jmbv8kevQ-E Bear -  https://youtu.be/ff0ULYUrXdw

After Lisa and Brian's mid-week pajama party for the live broadcast, Dean rejoins the crew for a group session on how it all went down.

Brian and Lisa have a virtual snuggle via Zoom as they settle in to record their live reactions to the MUCH anticipated series finale of the brilliant Mr Inbetween. Can The Batman and Robin of Scott and Nash stick the landing ?  Or will we get a 'Sopranos' ? (Only, please god ... not a Game of Thrones, anything but that ...  😱 The pair were only slightly bothered by a 10 second time difference between their respective viewing platforms. But Dean was a little more impacted, since his parents chose to live on the wrong side of the planet facing the sun and had to settle for a solo viewing some hours later ... albeit with home cooked Aussie Dim Sims ! (No they are NOT pot stickers!) The team will be all back together tomorrow for a fully detailed   recap on the finale and the series. AND as we have already spilled the beans, we are indeed having Director NASH EDGERTON over for virtual-lunch on Friday, so we'll drop that interview on the weekend, for your listening pleasure. RUN !

First I gotta get all literary on your collective asses ...

"Saudade (English: /ˌsaʊˈdɑːdə/,[1] European Portuguese: [sɐwˈðaðɨ], Brazilian Portuguese: [sawˈdad(ʒ)i], Galician: [sawˈðaðɪ]; plural saudades)[2] is a deep emotional state of nostalgic or profound melancholic longing for something or someone that one cares for and/or loves. Moreover, it often carries a repressed knowledge that the object of longing might never be had again. However it acknowledges that to long for the past would detract from the excitement you feel towards the future. Saudade describes both happy and sad at the same time, which is most closely translated to the English saying ‘bitter sweet’." Indeed ...

Here is our recap of Episodes 7 + 8 of Mr Inbetween. The polarising ‘Im Your Girl’ and the shocking ‘I’ll See You Soon.

The slow burn of E7 set us up for the stunning impact of E8. Now it’s only days until we find out how Scott, Nash and friends will draw this show to a close. 

Unlike the furious ‘catchup mode we have been in lately with the recapping S3Es 1- 8, our final recap of S3E9 will be out within HOURS of it going live, so watch your podfeed.

Buckle up folks, here we go. 

Our interview with the man himself, creator, writer, actor, star of Mr Inbetween  Scott Ryan !

Scott was very generous with his time and we covered a lot of ground digging into the details on topics such as; casting, his acting process with Chika who plays his daughter "Britt", how it was to work with FX in the US, Scott’s feelings on ending the series and the role he has lived in for so long, his acting and writing process and much much more. ... inc dimmies (Of course)

Keep an eagle eye on your podcast feed as Lisa, Brian and Dean’s recap of Episodes 7+8 are coming right up, ready for your listening pleasure before the airing of the finale, Episode 9 this week. Our recap of that will be out within hours of airing.

Enjoy !

NOTES: https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/from-the-archives-1974-death-comes-for-the-magician-20190918-p52spr.html #MrInbetween #fx #fxonhulu #scottryan #nashedgerton #NicCassim #DamonHerriman #Foxtel #Binge #mindhunter, #davidfincher, #charlesmanson, #quentintarantino #justified #dewey @Justified @MINDHUNTER @Blue-Tongue Films

That’s right folks we turn the big FOUR OH ! … And oh what a way to do it !   We are recapping the amazing episodes ‘Before I went to War and ‘Ray Who ?’ of our almost-done Mr Inbetween S3 deep dive.

Ep 5 Before I went to War is one of this that just leaps out off the screen and makes you laugh, punch the air with righteous justice and cry .. all in 30 min. Scott, Nash and team at the top of their game.  Whilst In 'Ray Who' The boy's High School reunion does (surprisingly) not go to plan, nor end well.   Listen on for our thoughts !

We are so psyched to welcome transformational actor DAMON HERRIMAN to the show!  Mr. In Between fans will know him as Freddy the Strip Club owner, but there rest of the world knows him for tons of other roles including playing Charles Manson (twice) in Mindhunter and Once Upon A Time in Hollywood, Dewey from Justified, Kim from Secret City and so many others. Damon talks about working with Scott Ryan and Nash Edgerton, about his background growing up in the business as a child actor and so much more! 

Please consider donating to research for a cure to this fatal disease. https://fightmnd.org.au/donate/ is a GLOBAL body dedicated to finding a cure for MND aka ALS aka Lou Gehrig's disease. The word 'rare' comes to mind here. You can put all of the following in that categor;. Scott Ryan, Nash Edgerton, Mr Inbetween Ray Shoesmith ... and it is impossible not to also include actor Nic Cassim's performance as Ray's brother Bruce who in the series is afflicted with Motor Neurone Disease. This same disease is know some places in the world as 'ALS' and in the US particularly as 'Lou Gehrig's Disease. We dive into Nic's incredible performance, his process and the time he played a clown in kids hospitals .. no for real ! And we of course discuss all things Mr Inbetween  Finally although Nic's performance is fiction, sadly this horrible disease is not. Average life expectancy from diagnosis is barely 2 years. It is 100% fatal and there are ZERO medication or treatments to prolong life. PLEASE consider donating to https://fightmnd.org.au/donate/ which was founded by Aussie Rules legend Neale Daniher, himself a sufferer of MND. Scott Ryan confirmed to me that Neale was the inspiration to write Bruces character with MND.  We are sure you will enjoy this interview ... and coming right up are Damon Herriman (Freddy) and Mr Inbetween himself ... creator, writer, actor, Scott Ryan.

We delve deeply into these action-light, but setup, super, SUPER heavy episodes.  Ray's world is closing in around him.   Ray is pushed into a reflectivemode by the circumstances of his life ... choices and ghosts he made long ago are coming for him. How will it all end ? Maybe he really WILL see the bikie President in his dreams ... ? Tonight (at time of posting this, episode 7 goes out, so there are only two more episodes to tie it all together.  WTAF! ?   Who could possibly do this ?  Well, Scott Ryan of course. And STANDBY for the drops next week of our interviews with Nic Cassim (Bruce) Damon Herriman (Freddy) and with Ray Shoesmith himself Scott Ryan. (Cunningy timed to whip you into a MRIB frenzy)   Will Gazza survive?  Will Ray survive ?  Does Britt work him out and if so, what does that cost Ray ? Will Rafael be Ray's overlooked nemesis ?  What happens to Freddy ?

What does the future hold for Ray ?  (if he even has one)  All these questions ..  and more will be answered first by Scott ... and then dissected by us.  AND we want your feedback and questions !  Message us via the BRIB Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/groups/540364090032481 Or use or audio recording widget to send as a question in your own voice and we'll play it on the pod. https://www.killercastingpod.com/contact  #gettingdowntotintacks

Lisa sits down with the cast of the indie horror film she worked on, "Unearth" that will start streaming on Amazon July 6. Starring Adrienne Barbeau, Marc Blucas, Allison McAtee, Brooke Sorenson and PJ Marshall, the film is a very different kind of genre film. Two farming families in rural Pennsylvania struggle to survive the economic downturn. One farmer, desperate to provide for his two daughters and newborn grandson, makes a deal that he hopes will save them. But his decision has horrific consequences for everyone."

We continue celebrating LGBTQ month and especially this weekend !

Here is Part 2 of our chat with H Alan which is un-turnoffable ... dont believe us ?  I dare you ....

Your intrepid pod team continue their deep dive into the awesome, yet sadly final series of Mr Inbetween. In this episode titled 'Champ' Ray finds gainful employment whilst in prison. He tries to give helpful advice to a new fish (it doesn't end well) Ray's offsider Dave (played by the great Matt Nable) proves to be a persuasive Bush Lawyer. Britt has so much teenage 'tude going on it could power a small city and Ray's (otherwise secret) criminal world starts to bleed over into his (and Britt's) real world. Things are very different for Ray 1 year after Bruce has died. Are dark clouds gathering .. ?  We shall find out !

The three of hosts had to keep a tight leash on our inner gibbering idiots today because THIS was the day we go to chat with Creator/Writer/Actor Scott Ryan about his unbelievably awesome show Mr Inbetween. This short series of out takes is just to whet your appetite for the full hour long version coming just as soon as we can. Also watch your feed for our interviews with Nic Cassim whose performance as Rays brother Bruce is simply heartbreakingly beautiful. Then (yes there is more !) joining us will be the amazing Damon Herriman who plays club owner Freddy in the show but also of course known internationally for his work on the series 'Justified and his recent projects with Quentijn Tarantino and Said Fincher. Phew !  It's a packed program kids.  Buckle up ! #MrInbetween #fx #fxonhulu #scottryan #NashEdgerton #Foxtel #Binge

Hail to the Queen!! Guess who stops by to celebrate our Pride in film and tv, none other than the multi-hyphenate comedian, writer, film maker and yes Drag Queen, H. Alan Scott!!!!  (aka Sadie Pines).  Lisa, Dean and H. Alan share all their favorite movies, tv shows and individual acting performances under the big beautiful rainbow umbrella. H. Alan talks The Bird Cage and the time Robin Williams saw his stand up routine. Dean talks about a Russell Crowe movie where he plays and out and proud gay man. Lisa talks about the murder of both Brandon Teena and Harvey Milk and how much films honoring them have meant to her. Join us and get your gay on!

#thebirdcage

#gaypride

#boysdontcry

#harveymilk

#brandonteena

#salmineo

#lgbtq

He's back! and more in-between than ever! That's right, the Season 3 that Lisa, Brian, and Dean have been waiting for, the FX series "Mr. Inbetween" is back and they are pumped to deep dive into each and every episode. Starting with Episode 1 called "Coulda Shoulda" we catch up with what that inscrutable, enigmatic hitman Ray Shoesmith has been up to after the tragic events of Season 2.  Lisa and the beasts have a lot to say about it. PLUS, they are looking forward to some very special guests from the cast to join them in the episodes to come! (Spoiler alert, Scott Ryan, Nicholas Cassim and Damon Herriman just might be on our books!). If you have any questions for our upcoming guests please go to our website, scroll down and you can RECORD your question to be played on the pod!  

Well look who stops by to talk to Lisa and the Sexy Beasts????? None other than Special Agent Emily Prentiss, aka Paget Brewster! Paget tells us all about what she has been doing since Criminal Minds. We talk cooking shows, Top Chef, kissing Queen Latifah, bras on or off during sex, Drunk History, should Paget dye her hair (Lisa says NO) and a million other silly silly things. Don't miss it!

Please subscribe and leave us a 5 star review! It helps people find us! 

If you want to watch the full Paget Youtube compilation clip click here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j46zpxgWBBc

#criminalminds

#pagetbrewster

#Emilyprentiss

#drunkhistory

#queenlatifah

#ryanmurphy

#topchef

#cookingshows

#crimeshows

To help Lisa, Brian and Dean make sense of the much anticipated finale of the HBO Original Series, Mare of Easttown, the gang is joined by Jason Kennedy who casts the NCIS franchises and knows a thing or two about murder mysteries! We talk about the "why" of Guy Pearce, the "who" of who really killed Erin, the "wow" of Julianne Nicholson's excruciating performance...Dean is still puzzled by all the bra wearing going on, Lisa was all to pieces watching Mare deal with Ryan AND deal with her son's death and Brian thinks Kate Winslet is the most generous actress on earth! Just hand her the Emmy already! 

#MareofEasttownfinale

#katewinslet

#itwasryan

#bradingelsby

#guypearce

#ncis

#jasonkennedy

#crimeshow

#crimedrama

#femaledetective

This week Lisa and Dean breakdown the penultimate episode of the HBO Original Series “Mare of Easttown” joined by none other than Kate Winslet’s own dialect coach, the fantastic Susan Hegarty. Susan coached Kate on the now famous “Delco” accent used in “Mare”.  Susan has coached so many A-List actors, it is ridiculous — and she helps us understand the way she works to make her clients sound as flawless as possible. To Lisa’s nerdy delight we get deep into the weeds discussing the differences between accents and dialects….but then we turn to analyzing Episode 6 titled “Sore Must Be the Storm”.  Tune in to find out our take on this emotionally rich episode, so filled with amazing performances by all the “mothers” in this story.

Please support us by leaving us a 5 star rating and a review wherever you listen to your podcasts!! Thanks!!

#hbomax

#hbooriginals

#katewinslet

#mareofeasttown

#susanhegarty

#ericbana

#delco

#dialect

#accent

#bradingelsby 

#episode6

#crimedrama

#crimeshow

#detectiveshow

#ladydetective

The team continue their breakdown of the epic new HBO Max limited series Mare of Easttown. We talk the massive talent displayed by Kate Winslet and Jean Smart in their mother/daughter scenes. The brilliance of Sosie Bacon. And the best damn drunk scene ever played by Evan Peters. 

This week on Killer Casting we plunge ahead into the shocking episode 5 of “Mare of Easttown” titled “Illusions”. Lisa was holding her breath all through the last 5 minutes of the show. Even Brian was stunned! Incredible work by Kate Winslet, Evan Peters, and all the supporting cast.

Today on an extra special Killer Casting, Lisa, Brian and Dean sit down with "Mare of Easttown" Pennsylvania local casting directors Diane Heery and Jason Loftus.  They give us some inside scoop on the audition process for the show.  Plus we take a deep dive into Mare Ep 4 "Poor Sisyphus". 

"Mare of Easttown" is on HBO MAX and Lisa is HERE for it. This is right in her wheelhouse...world weary detectives, tragic victims, and plenty of suspects.  (Lisa thinks she has already guessed who the killer is). But this show is elevated above a network procedural by the presence of Kate Winslett, Guy Pearce and a ton of fantastic supporting actors who get the Delco accent down.  Hear Lisa, Brian and Dean take apart and break apart the first ep of this 8 episode series.    #hbomax #katewinslett #mareofeasttown #delco   MARE OF EASTTOWN TRAILER https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miQqyfO66uw

Allo, allo, allo mes amies!! The Bureau (Le Bureau des Legendes) is Lisa's latest obsession and it will be yours too -- with some of the best acting to be seen anywhere. The show combines a delicious mix of espionage, suspense, psychological thriller, love story, with an interlocking web of unforgettable characters. The series centers on a Bureau of French Intelligence where experienced agents are coming back from long missions abroad...and newbie agents are training to go out for their first time undercover assignments. We get to know these operatives so intimately -- their strengths, their eccentricities and their flaws -- as well as their "handlers" who work behind the scenes to keep them safe. Starring Mathieu Kassovitz (who Lisa last remembers seeing as the nerdy boyfriend in "Amelie" with Audrey Tatou") as weary and lovelorn agent "Malotru".    To help Lisa breakdown Season 1, she invites her good friend and amazing director Tom Keegan, real U.S. Intelligence Agent Anthony Patton AND the actual Casting Director of The Bureau Season 1, Herve Jakubowicz!!!    Here is the full trailer for Season One.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFsBFcu8cOs

Acting is a transformative art and few do it better than the great Stanley Tucci. For years he existed in the realm of "you're that guy who was in that thing," but with his turn in Big Night, he showed he was more than just a supporting actor. He brings an intelligence and charm to every role he brings to life and with a seeming effortlessness that is a joy to watch. And what a dapper dresser!

Lisa, Dean and special guest Paul Sullivan wade through the detritus of the weirdest Oscars since Rob Lowe sang with Snow White 

Lisa, Brian and Dean are joined by two very special guests to discuss the amazing tour de force that is Chadwick Boseman's final performance, but which also features knockout performances from a killer ensemble cast, starring the spectacular Viola Davis, Coleman Domingo (who Lisa has cast before in the film Nothingman), Glynn Turman (who Lisa cast on Criminal Mind and adores from Fargo) and Michael Potts (Brother Mouzone to you Wire fans out there!!).  Chiming in with great insight are two professors who are both experts and authors in the field; Dr. Monica White Ndounou is an Associate Professor of Theater and the founding Executive Director of The CRAFT Institute which convenes The International Black Theatre Summit and administers the Pay-It-Forward All-Career Level Mentorship Program along with various initiatives designed to create culturally inclusive ecosystems throughout the world of arts and entertainment by transforming formal training and industry practices while promoting equitable access.  She is also the past President of the Black Theatre Association (BTA) (2016-2018), Vice President of Advocacy for the Association for Theatre in Higher Education (ATHE) (2019-2021) and serves on the board of The August Wilson Society.  She is a founding member of the National Advisory Committee of The Black Seed, a national strategic plan to create impact and thrivability for Black theater institutions and initiatives.https://www.rutgersuniversitypress.org/shaping-the-future-of-african-american-film/9780813562551  *******************************************

Laurence Glasco is Associate Professor of History at the University of Pittsburgh. Since coming to the University of Pittsburgh’s History Department in 1969, he has focused on African American history, both locally and globally. A graduate of Antioch College, Dr. Glasco received his Ph.D. in History from the State University of New York at Buffalo.

Professor Glasco has studied the history of Black Pittsburgh for the past decade or so. He researched and narrated the recent exhibition on slavery in early Pittsburgh, “Free at Last?” and has extensively written about Black Pittsburgh history for exhibits at the Heinz History Center and a variety of publications.

Dr. Glasco has made an intense study of the Pittsburgh upbringing and childhood experience of August Wilson to reveal how the playwright developed his characters, gained inspiration for his stories, and cultivated his craft as one of the most celebrated African-American playwrights in the world. What can we glean about ourselves from the life and writings of Pittsburgh’s own playwright?

Editor, The WPA History of the Negro in Pittsburgh (University of Pittsburgh Press, 2004)

Legacy in Bricks and Mortar: African-American Landmarks in Allegheny County (with Frank Bolden and Eliza Smith) (Pittsburgh History and Landmarks Foundation, 1995)

“Race, Caste and Untouchability: Lessons from India” (Sanskriti 1993) 

“National Versus Racial Identity: Juan Gualberto Gomez of Cuba and W.E.B. Du Bois of the United States,” in Wolfgang Reinhard and Peter Waldmann, Nord und Süd in Amerika (Rombach,1992) 

“The Life Cycles and Household Structures of American Ethnic Groups,” Journal of Urban History (1975)

How's that for some heavy hitters kids ?  Enjoy!  

Video Games. You might be surprised to know that some of the best roles for actors are not in Film or TV but  IN video games. Love stories, stories of adventure, stories of great emotional loss. They are all contained in these projects....and they are not just voice overs, they are performance and likeness capture. So it is the actor IN the video game, their acting, their face, their emotion, their movement.

Director Tom Keegan has worked on some of the biggest video game  franchises, Star Wars, Battle Field and many others. Check out his insanely diverse CV here https://www.imdb.com/name/nm1146741/

And if you think then audio in the pod SOUNDS good, check out the trailer here on You Tube. https://youtu.be/0GLbwkfhYZk 

Lisa has worked to help Tom cast many projects. She sits down with Tom to talk about the casting process for video games. 

Of course, there is a lot of glitz and glamour in the film and music industries. But would you be surprised to learn that these two are not the top-grossing sectors in entertainment?

As a matter of fact, these two put together do not even match half the revenue the video game industry is earning. According to the latest figures, the video game business is now larger than both the movie and music industries combined, making it a major industry in entertainment.

This year, the global games market is estimated to generate US$152.1 billion from 2.5 billion gamers around the world. By comparison, the global box office industry was worth US$41.7 billion while global music revenues reached US$19.1 billion in 2018. Read more here https://www.ejinsight.com/eji/article/id/2280405/20191022-video-game-industry-silently-taking-over-entertainment-world

Your regular hosts are joined by legendary Casting Director Emily Schweber (Titanic, L.A. Confidential, The Matrix, The Hero) as we dissect what many are calling Frances McDormand finest performance (and THAT is saying something) in Chloe Zhao's gentle, poignant masterpiece 'Nomadland' 

What an exciting prospect Chloe is, putting out a film like this at her young age. It is thrilling to wonder what she has in store for us in the future.

Oh and btw we have a TON of news eps recorded, editing or in preproduction, so standby for a flood of new releases in the next few weeks !

#academyawards

#bestactress

#bestdirector

#oscars

#nomadland

#francesmcdormand

#Chloezhao

Warning. This episode (and the film) deals with the trauma associated with sexual assault. It may be very triggering. Please look after yourselves. This episode also (unavoidably) contains massive plot spoilers, so if you haven't seen the film, and don't want to be spoiled please pause and come back to us after you have seen it.

In our "Promising Young Woman" follow-up episode, Lisa and Dean are joined by Professor Emeritus Tania Modleski and Professor Caroline Heldman. They bring their unique and highly experienced perspectives to an in-depth discussion of the sociological elements and impact of the film. We needed their big beautiful brains to help us continue to break down this exceptional piece of work.

Professor Modleski is an American feminist scholar and cultural critic at USC. Her expertise is in American studies, gender studies, feminist theory, and film and popular culture. Her research efforts focus on women in film, women in popular culture, women in literature, and soap operas. See https://dornsife.usc.edu/cf/faculty-and-staff/faculty.cfm?pid=1003547 

See https://www.oxy.edu/academics/faculty/caroline-heldman

Further reading;

Emerald Fennell talk in detail about the various. options considered for ending the film.https://variety.com/2021/film/news/promising-young-woman-ending-spoilers-2-1234885400/  Film wins Best Film and Best Actress at Aussie'Oscars' https://variety.com/2021/awards/awards/aacta-2021-awards-promising-young-woman-1234923201/ 

Laverne Cox interview https://www.theguardian.com/film/2021/feb/14/laverne-cox-interview-trailblazing-trans-activist-i-can-be-so-hard-on-myself    Caroline mentioned the Stuebenville documentary 'Roll Red Roll' Read a review here

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2019/apr/09/roll-red-roll-behind-the-chilling-documentary-on-high-school 

Cross over episode!! Lisa and Dean are joined by Real Crime Profile Podcast’s Laura Richards and Jim Clemente to breakdown the incredible film 'Promising Young Woman' written and directed by Emerald Fennell, starring Carey Mulligan in a performance for the ages.

Jim and Laura bring a law enforcement perspective to the plot and they have many insights into the behaviour of each character in this ground breaking film. 

Warning!! This episode (and the film) deals with the trauma associated with sexual assault and may be very triggering. Please look after yourselves.

This episode also (unavoidably) contains massive plot spoilers, so if you haven't seen the film, please pause and come back to us after you have watched it. Some good interviews for more details: https://www.indiewire.com/2020/12/promising-young-woman-emerald-fennell-interview-1234605075/

Laverne Cox interview https://www.theguardian.com/film/2021/feb/14/laverne-cox-interview-trailblazing-trans-activist-i-can-be-so-hard-on-myself 

Dean and Lisa return to talk about some factoids and other stuff that we couldn't fit in to our previous episode on simulated sex in film and TV. Dean goes full nerd on the history of the Hays Code from the Hollywood 1930's, until Lisa pulls him back on track and we chat through the end of the code and the beginning of the ratings system.  Also we touch on the double standards of female vs male nudity.

Lisa, Brian and Dean are joined by famous Casting Director, and now Intimacy Coordinator, Marci Liroff. Marci's credits are ridiculous. She started out casting 'Indie' films ... you know as in INDIANA JONES AND THE TEMPLE OF DOOM !  ET - The Extra Terrestrial , St. Elmo's Fire, Pretty in Pink, Footloose, Mean Girls, The Spiderwick Chronicles ... TOO many to mention. Here check it out for yourself. https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0513924/  Whilst remaining a Casting Director, she has recently added another string to her bow, by transforming into a very important and badly needed role as a Hollywood Intimacy Coordinator. (IC) Marci's job is to help everyone from the director and the creative team, to the stars and the crew deal with nudity and simulated sex in film and TV in a responsible way, which in particular, looks after the well-being of the most vulnerable people in that situation ... the actors who are on set. It's a fascinating conversation and we end up by just getting down and dirty and sharing our favourite simulated sex scenes and sexy films. Some links to follow up: Marci's website, including her sizzle reel ... which is ridiculous.😳 https://www.marciliroff.com/ Her incredible jewellery designs. Get yours now ! https://marciliroffjewelry.com/ A background piece on what is amusingly referred to as 'Bonkerton' https://www.theage.com.au/lifestyle/life-and-relationships/bonkerton-truth-about-regency-romance-is-far-racier-20210205-p56zt6.html In timely fashion, Keira Knightly has just come out with a statement on her future simulated sex scenes. https://www.theguardian.com/film/2021/jan/29/it-was-a-misuse-of-power-how-movie-sex-scenes-change-keira-knightley

TRANSCRIPT OF EPISODE

Scene from Bridgerton: When you touch yourself, you do touch yourself. When you’re alone you can touch yourself. Anywhere that gives you pleasure especially between your legs. When you find the feeling you particularly enjoy you can carry on with that, until the feeling grows and then eventually you reach pinnacle, a release that should help you.

Lisa: Hello, welcome to Killer Casting, I'm Lisa Zambetti. I am a casting director probably best known for my work on the long running show Criminal Minds. And I've cast victims and villains and cops and doctors and lawyers and everything in between. But apropos of today's topic, I've also cast many actors to play lovers, to play roles in adult situations. And I've even cast those very, very difficult roles where characters engage in sexual violence and who are sometimes the victims of sexual abuse. So given that, I wanted to give a little trigger warning, I wanted to warn our listeners today that we're going to be talking about sex. Sex in cinema, sex on screen, we're going to be using very explicit language possibly talking about things that could be triggering to you. And I want you to take very good care of yourselves and know your boundaries because this is going to be a great conversation, but probably a very frank conversation. And I have a very special guest I cannot wait for you to meet, but I want you to please exercise care if you need to, okay. So with that said, let me just say hi to my ever loyal sexy beast Brian Allan Hill, how are you today?

Brian: Doing great, how is everybody out there?

Lisa: And Dean Laffan the wonder from down under, how are you doing?

Dean: I'm very well, thank you. Good to see you again, Lisa and Brian.

Lisa: I'm hoping that I get to make Brian and Dean blush today. I'm really looking forward to that. So let me just lay it out there y’all. I am a very sex positive person when it comes to sex on screen, I'm not just talking about adult erotica, but sex in TV shows and cinema whether it's a consummation of “will they, won't they” get together, slow burning passion between the leads with this delicious animosity and chemistry that leads to sex, or more importantly sex that is about a very specific and difficult context. Sex that's born of grief, of pain, of secrets and lies and sex that moves the story forward, or just deepens your understanding of the character. Whatever the sex is between consenting adults on screen, no matter the sexual identity, orientation, and no matter if they have classically beautiful bodies and fantastic faces, or if they look like me, just the average everyday person grinding it out? I'm here for it. I am absolutely here for it. And some people may say, oh sex scenes are gratuitous and some people may have issues with nudity and that's fine. But indulgence means different things to different people. And for me, done right, sex is a very powerful and necessary thing. But those performances of simulated sex come at a price. And it's the actors on screen, they pay that price. And in the past, sometimes sex scenes are highly choreographed and a lot of times it's a lot of illusion camera trickery. Maybe people aren't totally nude, maybe they are. The fact of the matter is these scenes make those performers very vulnerable and in the past, in the very sad past of our industry in Hollywood and abroad, it's easy for that trust to be broken. It's easy for lines to be crossed and boundaries to be forgotten. But I have here today a very special guest who's going to talk us through something new that has come into our industry that is so needed. I can't even believe that we never had it before. I want to introduce to you an immensely successful casting director. She has cast some of the most important movies of my childhood and my premenstrual sexual Tween hood. She was on the casting team for ET. Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom, St Elmo's Fire, Pretty in Pink, Mean Girls, I could go on and on but I'm not going to because she in the last few years has become an Intimacy Coordinator. Please say hello to my queen Marci Liroff.

Marci Liroff: Hi am happy to be here.

Lisa: Oh Marcie, thank you for jumping on. And I know you are on the East Coast right now and you are instead of casting this show, you are the intimacy coordinator for this show. Do you want to tell us a little bit about this show, what you can tell us?

Marci Liroff: Sure. I'm working on a series called “High Town” and it’s in its second season and we're in Wilmington North Carolina on location. We've been here since October and it's a very dark and thrilling show and it centers around Provincetown which is known to be a wild vacation town in the summertime. But this focuses on the people that live there, and addiction, basically kind of the deep dark secrets that go on from the working class people that live there.

Lisa: I haven't seen the first season, but it sounds amazing.

Marci Liroff: Yeah, it’s really, really good.

Lisa: I'm sure a lot of our listeners have never heard the term intimacy coordinator before. It is a new role on the call sheet and I really just want you to just dig in, tell us what it is. Tell us why you turned to it after this amazing career as a casting director, I'm sure you still are casting. But what made you want to turn to this and just educate us on what it is and what you do?

Marci Liroff: Well, let me start off by telling you what the job is. So it is a newish job and I'll tell you how it came to be. There's a TV series called “The Deuce” on HBO. And they were going into their second season and it focuses on sex workers. And Maggie Gyllenhaal stars in this show, and the series regulars were going back to work and one of them, an actress named Emily Meade was feeling very vulnerable in these scenes, because they would have to do these scenes with guest stars that were coming in, not series regulars, day players that were coming in and as you said, these are very highly vulnerable scenes and she felt like she was kind of working without a net, so to speak. And she and some of the other actors went to HBO to describe what it is that they need it. And kind of somewhat invented the job because this job had existed in theater for a bit and in film and television what we're doing is collaborating with the filmmakers to help get their story on the screen in an authentic way. And then working with the actors as well, as their liaison and as their advocate for these scenes to make sure that they stay safe and to talk about things like consent and boundaries ahead of time so that there's no surprises on the day and everybody feels safe and we get what we need, but it's in a very safe way, consent is really the cornerstone of this job. In the old days, actors would have a nude scene or a simulated sex scene -- and we do say simulated sex because we really want to clarify that they are not having sex. Some people if it's shot well, it looks like they are. We want to make sure that people know that this is not real. And so in the old days, actors would be wrapped in a sheet. They would show up and like, hi, how you doing. And the director would say, okay, go for it. And they don't know, there was no plan, there was no choreography and we're very similar in a way to a stunt coordinator. And if you think about a stunt being done when actors show up and they're putting that could be a dangerous situation and someone says, okay, go for it. I mean stunts are rehearsed, there are safety meetings, it is choreographed, and it is a very serious venture. So the same thing is applied to simulated sex scenes and nudity. So as I said, we collaborate with the film crew and actors, the actors advocate on set and in preparation for the scenes. So that's kind of the short answer and we can get into more of it. And how I came to be doing this is I've been casting for 40 something years and producing and coaching actors, which I still do. And I've been looking for my next act and I've kind of become a unicorn in a way that I'm kind of the master of reinvention. I also design jewelry, so I do a lot of things.

Lisa: That’s why we should shout out, you design the beautiful jewelry, so we'll definitely post that in our show notes.

Marci Liroff: So as I said, I was looking for my third act. And it's been a while that I've been trying to figure out what else can I do. And I read some articles about this new position and I thought this is so up my alley. This just is kind of the amalgam of all the things that I have been trained to do so far, because I love working with the actors, I love working with filmmakers and I'm kind of one of those righteous people that wants to protect people that don't have a voice, that's always been my thing. I am always the people's advocate. And when I heard about this job, I just thought this is so interesting and this job is really multifaceted, which we'll get into, because we cover so many things on set. And so I did some research and found a woman in Los Angeles named Amanda Blumenthal who is kind of the, I would say the premier IC -- we call them ICs. She's the premier IC in the United States and lives in Los Angeles, and she was starting some training. And so I was accepted into a very small group of about seven people and we trained for six months in 2019. And I was certified by her organization called Intimacy Professionals Association. And I started working at the end of last year, started 2019 and then got a bunch of jobs the beginning of January of 2020 and then as we know, COVID hit and everything was shut down. So I had gotten the series, The Morning Show with Jennifer Aniston and Reese Witherspoon and a bunch of movies, and so all of this went away. And then a miracle happened and I got a call about this series and I relocated to Wilmington, North Carolina and I've been here since October.

Dean: It's time for a clip -- you'll be listening to Caitriona Balfe and Sam Heughan. They're talking about the filming of sex scenes in the very sexy and very popular Outlander. Here we go.

Sam Heughan: You know, we've always tried to approach them with something more and show that it's something to do with show the development of their relationship or and obviously it is a part of the show that we have to deal with.

Caitriona Balfe: I think we've always tried to make it further the story along, but it's not just there for titillation or just sticking in a sex scene for sex scene sake. When we started this show, the way the sex scenes were sold to us. Ron was very adamant that he didn't want to do typical TV sex and that he wanted each time there was a sex scene, it had to say something about the couple or the story. And we've tried to make sure that that has maintained throughout the seasons and yes, this couple is very passionate, it's an integral part of their relationship, but unless it has also something else to say, it doesn't really work I think.

Sam Heughan: And we're a couple now in our latter years, probably the prime actually.

Caitriona Balfe: But I think that's also beautiful to show that this far into a marriage that a couple can still be as passionate and is romantic and as much in love with each other as they were from the beginning. I mean it changes and evolves.

Sam Heughan: Doesn’t mean it’s less intimate or anything, you're just evolved. And I think other TV shows they don't show that.

Lisa: So Brian and Dean, have you ever heard any of these horror stories about things that have happened to actors and actresses in these sex scenes? I mean, and I'll tell a story of my own when I was an actor what happened. But do you recall any of these famous scenes where, you know, a lot of people think that hey, you're an actor, you should be able to do all this, but people have been put through so much fucking garbage on set.

Brian: Well the one that comes to mind most readily is Last Tango in Paris. That seems to me to be the most infamous and I think the one that damaged Marlon Brando's reputation to some degree, but not to the degree that he didn't get work again, you know what I mean, like he continued to work.

Marci Liroff: Well quite honestly at the time it didn't damage his reputation because no one knew about it until pretty recently.

Lisa: So Maria Schneider was in this love scene, whatever it is, a sexual scene, explicit scene with Marlon Brando and basically Bertolucci was like, we want to shake this actress up. We want to get her real reaction and they didn’t bother fucking telling her what was going to happen in the scene and so he has to simulate anally raping her and she's going along with it because that's what you had to do. If you're with a big powerful director and a big powerful actor, you go along with it, right? This is pre Me Too, and that sets the tone for the industry. I mean, don't you think?

Brian: One of my favorite documentaries is Hearts of Darkness about the making of apocalypse now and the scene that I always go back to and that is Martin Sheen on his birthday, getting more and more progressively drunk as the day is going on in the hotel room. And he smashes the mirror and cuts himself and he’s bleeding, that's not what acting is. And yet Coppola lets it go. And I mean, to some degree, Sheen says he needed that, he needed to exercise those demons, but there's too many of those kinds of stories and I think that's kind of foundational to the whole Me Too movement. And what people who aren't in the industry don't understand, if you say no, if you decide I'm going to take a stand, and I'm going to say “no” a lot of times you're done, that's it. You get a reputation as being difficult, and then it's like this thing that you want to make your career and your job, it evaporates. Because like we said, a handful of powerful people hold the strings.

Marci Liroff: You hit on something very important, and that's the word no, because nois a very powerful word. And I think we have been trained, especially women that we can't say no. And so part of my job as an IC, is to disrupt the power dynamic on set, because an actor has a very hard time saying no to someone that has hiring and firing power. You almost can't. And when you brought up the scene of Martin Sheen, and he had a heart attack after that scene and they had to shut down production, and it's all in the name of cinema creativity and it's revered and respected and I call bullshit on that. In my job right now, which really follows on the heels of the Me Too movement which really helped accelerate this job for sure. It was 2017 that this all happened. We are giving actors their voice back again and I really believe that we will not go back to the way it was. I don't think that we’ll ever go back to that. And so I said a lot of my work is really built around the idea of consent, and part of my process is the filmmakers tell me their thoughts for what they like this scene to be. And then I take those notes to the actor and have a private one on one discussion with them to see how they feel about it. See if they have any ideas and they are in an environment talking to me where they can say no. And unless I get enthusiastic consent, this is what my trainer, Amanda Blumenthal taught me is that you don't just get consent. You have to get enthusiastic consent, because if anybody is wobbling on it, I'm going to take that as a no. And you don't have to qualify why you are saying no, you don't have to give any reasons. And I will take that back to the filmmakers and see if there's any notes that they have when we come to a mutual agreement on how the scene is going to go. Now, one of the things that exist in the sack after contract that many actors do not know appropriate to scenes like this is that, if they've agreed to do this, they have signed a writer because there's an addendum to the contract that explains what they've agreed to do in terms of nudity, and what they've agreed to do in terms of simulated sex, you're shooting the scene and then all of a sudden you feel things going sideways or you could get triggered by something that you don't even know triggers you. Like, let's say it's nibbling on your ear and all of a sudden it triggers some horrible memories. And I'm now trained also in trauma response because I'm sitting by the monitor watching them. And if I see an actor starting to have a meltdown, I have to stop things and go help them. So you're in the middle of a scene and you suddenly go, I can't go on with this. The actor has the right to say, I can't go on with this scene, and then we will then try to compromise on something and make it work for both parties, or we will then have to replace you with a body double and the body double can only do what you have put on your nudity rider. So we can have the double come in and suddenly do like these wild things that you would never agree to representing your body. So most actors don't know that you can say no, even after they’ve agreed to do it.

Lisa: Right, and the agent is going to read the script and they're going to flag all of this. And when Marci says nudity rider, literally I've negotiated, are you going to show the side of the breast the nipple, how much of the areola, like everything, are you going to show the bush, are you going to show, what are you going to show? It's just there in black and white. And that's to not be crude but to protect people so they know what to expect and the producers know what they're going to get.

Marci Liroff: It’s very specific. And so what has been happening is actors will get there on the day having discussed what the scene will be or loosely discussed, whatever, and the producer or the director will come on set and say, “No, I need to see you totally naked and fucking him”. And you're like, well, huh? I was not prepared for that. Well, you did it in your last movie. And so that's the notion of consent. The consent exists on the day in the moment. So you could have consented something yesterday and then today. I mean, I ask every day, are you good with this scene because consent is in the moment and it has nothing to do with what you did in a film two years ago with a different story with a different director and a whole different script.

Lisa: We shouldn't make assumptions that the men don't have any vulnerability too. I'm sure maybe people like, oh they're going to be in there and going to be into it, they don't care.

Marci Liroff: Yeah, I mean, men are taken advantage of just as much as women and they're expected to go along. And we're also talking now that story lines are so inclusive. We're talking about the LGBTQ community, which my training takes a very deep dive in. We're seeing shows with trans-actors and there has to be some respect and sensitivity to who these people are, including their pronouns. We are here to help the crew sometimes understand what to refer to people as. I've worked with a costume designer that would not use the proper pronounce when dealing with an actor, and it just doesn't show any respect and it makes them uncomfortable. It does in fact make a hostile workplace and they could sue me for harassment.

Lisa: It's so funny because I've been in the audition room, reading an actor who's going to be doing a sexual violence towards my character. The actor will really be getting into it and he'll be like spitting on me and calling me a whore and everything and getting closer and closer and closer to me, and like the director isn't saying anything. I'm just the reader. I mean, I'm the casting director, but I'm the reader and maybe they touch me and it's like, come on, where is the boundary? And I remember one time my assistant was being the reader and I was kind of sitting in the backrow kind of watching and this actor picked her up and put her against the wall and I just stopped. I said, no, no, no, no, no, this is not how this is happening, I'm sorry. And that's a big risk to object to what's going on in a producer session. But please, and that sets the tone. It has a trickle-down effect on everybody else in the production.

Marci Liroff: Sure. I mean as a casting director, I've been involved in a lot of those scenes where I had an actor literally like pull me out of the chair on the ground, straddling me and chocking me, or pull out a gun and pull a knife. These are the old days before 9/11 when you certainly couldn't get on a studio lot, you know with a gun because they have metal detectors now. But now we talk about it beforehand, I make sure to set the boundaries like, don't touch me and let's just act this out as if. And also the intimacy coordinators now have a committee that work with Sag Aftra and we helped them draft some of the new clauses of the 2020 contract that includes protocol for auditioning for auditioning naked, which was very unclear and very blurry before and you can't audition naked. You have to have the minimum of what's considered like what you would wear on the beach for a woman would be a, you could wear pasties and a bikini bottom and the men have to be wearing the equivalent of a tuxedo. But this all has to be done with a written request signed ahead of the audition so that nobody asks you in a room to take your top off. You know about it ahead of time and you're going to have some protection and they can't keep giving you call backs. So there's a lot of now new information in terms of protecting actors in the audition situation. I never picked these scenes anymore, like I never have, but honestly, I don't - this is a very weird, awkward scene to put in for an audition and you don't really need to see it.

Dean: Okay, well, in this clip we've got to genuine megastars being Idris Elba and Kate Winslet and there on the couch in the hilariously funny Graham Norton show, talking about a sex scene between the two of them, here we go.

Graham Nortan: It was Elba, you would think, we think Idris Elba’s a leading man, ladies’ man, but you haven't actually done that many love scenes.

Idris Elba: No.

Graham Nortan: Why is that? How is that?

Idris Elba: No, I just haven't had the opportunity. I've done a lot of films where there's a lot of guys.

Chris Rock: That's no excuse.  That’d be a real good movie.

Graham Nortan: But the director had never directed a love scene, is this right?

Kate Winslet: Yeah, that's true. I'm afraid I had to get quite bossy because so I've done a few of these kinds of scenes before. And so we get there and poor honey our director is such a lovely man and he was really quite nervous and he had an extensive shot list and I'm thinking, oh my God, we are absolutely never going to get all this done. What kind of scene is this? Anyway there's like 25 shots and an Idris was, you were a little bit nervous, weren't you?

Idris Elba: Not really, no.

Kate Winslet: Okay.

Idris Elba: That was my game, you know, it's getting there.

Kate Winslet: Anyway, so everything was moving quite slowly and I'm like, look, we need to really start filming this. What's with all this kind of chat, and honey said, oh actually, I'm really kind of nervous. I've never done this. I actually never, I really haven't shot anything like this before at all. And Idris said no, and I haven't done much of it either and I went, okay. Put the camera over there and we're going to do this and we're going to do that. And then Idris said keep your socks on and I'm like, keep my socks on? Everything else is off, what’s with the, I said, no, I've got a foot thing.

Idris Elba: I got a thing.

Lisa: Brian, I wanted to sort of check in with you because Marci’s working in the professional world with Sag-Aftra rules and all that stuff. But like when you and I were in college and you do a scene from Pick a Sam Shepard play will you.

Brian: We’re like doll's house where you're in a marriage situation where it's Nora and Torvald.

Lisa: I was doing a college production of extremities, which I don't know if you remember that play Farrah Fawcett, and it's a near rape scene and you have college kids rehearsing together alone and no fight choreographer forget about that. And even though we know we're acting, your body doesn't know you're acting by the way when you're touched in a certain place. And this guy, he was very nice guy, but he got very into it, throwing me on the floor, grinding his, his junk against me. And at one point he's like, oh, maybe would it be fun if I took this carrot and I like tortured you with it and I'm like, check please, like no, there's nobody to protect you in that situation. And it's just like, what have we come a long way since then guys? I mean, is this I just want to protect everybody out there no matter if you're a “professional actor” or not, that we have to have boundaries. You can't just assume that you can just jump on somebody no matter what your gender, what’s your orientation. I mean, Brian did you have an experience like that?

Brian: Yeah, well, so let's unpack it just a little bit. So conversations that I've had with people about the profession, there is an industry standard. Once you get to a certain age I think, or once you decide, okay, I'm a professional actor, right? You behave in a certain way in talking to Lisa, I've contended that I don't care how big the theater community is, whether Chicago or Dallas or LA or New York, whatever. It's not that much different than a high school theater department with all the kind of incestuous relationships and quickly and let's go to the bar and at least that was the culture that I was a part of when I was in theater. And so you would get involved in these plays with people. And let's say there was like a romantic connection that people allowed themselves to kind of fall into. So I guess my I do have a question for you Marci on that front of like separating. So when I was in college, when I was first starting to act doing doll's house, I had an older actress, she was three years older than me. But I was 18 at the time playing Torvald, I mean, which is what college is for. But she was having a tough time finding the relationship. So she involved me in her process and as an 18 year old kid, I was like all for it, let's I was - I jumped right on in it was like heaven. And then closing night, we're all tripping on acid and that's when she dropped the hammer and said, yeah, I just kind of did that for the play, sorry.

Lisa: Wait, when you say involving in your process, you mean she started fucking you for real?

Brian: Oh, yeah. Oh yeah. And that I had no idea, like, the damage that would do. I mean, like, I almost decided I don't want to do that. If this is what it's going to be, then I don't want to fucking do it. And so this is the question that I have in your role. Do you caution actors to like, this is a fantasy, this is pretend that we're doing right? You have a job to do. Your body is going to be telling you something different potentially in this moment. Is that part of the job of the coordinator as well to like keep things separated because we've heard plenty of stories where actors get involved in a project together and then they divorce wives and husbands and get married, you know what I mean? And then it's like, oh that wasn't real.

Marci Liroff: There are a couple of things that I would talk about. We get hired to help minors with the first kiss. Because that can also be like, imagine having your first kiss ever on screen, or your first screen kiss, when you're 16 years old. I mean there was stories about the actress Millie Bobby Brown on “Stranger Things”. She had her first ever kiss on screen and the Duffer brothers, sweet as they are were teasing her about it, and they didn't realize how traumatic it was for her. And she's done so many interviews talking about how embarrassing that was. So they hire us to help out young actors and scenes like that. So one of the first things I worked on was in the film were two 16 year old kids. The girl was seducing the boy and she threw on a chair and straddled him and was kind of grinding on him and trying to take his pants off and kissing him. And neither of them had ever done that. I talked to the boy about you might have a physical reaction to something where your mind is telling you one thing, but your body is doing another thing and that's totally fine if that happens because that's very natural and if there's something like that happens, we'll stop and wait until things calm down and don't be embarrassed about that, it's totally natural. But I think it's really important to what you're saying Brian is to stop this notion of romanticizing it and doing it for art. We have to really get into it and really do it, which is bullshit. It's absolute bullshit. I mean you were taken advantage of, I mean at least you were 18 and an adult-ish, but we've certainly seen this happen and if the role was reversed and it was a guy doing this to a young girl that's criminal activity. And women kind of get the pass on that in a weird way. But yeah, I do absolutely try to guide people through these situations like that they are doing a very violent scene. I talk to the actors to make sure that they're going to be, maybe they've had experiences like this and they're worried about doing something like this as it may trigger them and so we talk about it very deeply. And I also want to make sure that we talk about keeping this in a container, so to speak so that once we finish the scene, we close that container and I don't want to send them home without knowing that they're okay psychologically with this. And so we talk about an after plan, we talk about what they're going to do when they leave the set. Do they have some support? Do they need to talk to somebody about it? Like have they really closed the container so that they're not walking around like an open wound from just stirred up all of this stuff.

Lisa: Oh my gosh, that's so important. And you just made me think of how many things could get triggered. I mean, as you said with this underage couple that you were coaching. Their sexual orientation and identity may not be formed yet and it may be very confusing to them to be in a scene like that, you can't make assumptions on somebody else and thank goodness that you're there for that. I don't know if you've had to encounter that or if these are not just heteronormative scenes that Marci is going to be working on certainly.

Marci Liroff: I'm not a psychologist. However, there are several intimacy coordinators that do have that background and it really definitely helps the job. I'm not going to pretend that I have that training, but I as a psychologist, as a licensed psychologist, but that is part of our training to make sure that everyone stays healthy and safe in terms of what could happen psychologically from a scene like this. For instance, the woman that trained me, Amanda Blumenthal did the series Euphoria. And I don't know if you've seen Euphoria, but it's very raw. And all teenagers and it is very intense. And they were kind of breaking new ground for things like that. And there's a trans-girl and it's a lot. I mean the subject matter was very dark and very intense.

Lisa: And the whole reason that we even I even thought about doing this episode with you is because Dean last week was teasing me about Bridgerton and saying that that was my mommy porn. He was making a joke, but I was thinking about it that when I was watching those scenes, I was thinking they had to have had an IC. I mean, there are explicit scenes, I mean not just body parts, but the pleasure is and that's a fair that's even more intimate seeing somebody's face and the pleasure they're experiencing. What's for both the actor and the actress.

Marci Liroff: Well, one of the things I didn't mention that we also are trained to do is the choreography of these scenes and its different every set. Some directors know exactly what they want and they'll have its story boarded and some directors treated like hot potato, like, I don't want to have anything to do with this, you do it. And I was really fortunate on the first couple of projects I worked with that the directors are like you do it. So I got to choreograph a lot of these scenes. With Bridgerton absolutely they had an IC a very good IC named Lizzie Talbot and there are so many articles, interviews of the actors from Bridgerton talking about her and how much fun she made these scenes and how they couldn't have done it without her and how appreciative they were for that she was there because it can be very awkward with a camera that's close to your face and you're meant to have an orgasm fires. It's very, very rough and hyper sexual and she'll guide them through that to make them feel comfortable and then able to walk away feeling like they did a good day's work and it’s done.

Lisa: God bless you. I'm so glad that you're doing this. You seem like this is a perfect match for you. Because as you say, not only do you know how to talk to actors, you know how to talk to directors, you know how to talk to writers, and it takes a whole team to have this kind of sensitivity and understanding. I think that's amazing.

Marci Liroff: You really have to have set experience to do this. You cannot learn on the job. There's a whole different world language and set etiquette and it's really not something that we can teach you. I have produced several shows, I've been a casting director for several years, so I know how to deal with all these personalities, because I'm dealing with the producer, the director of the network, the legal department, the actors, the ADs. It's a lot.

Dean: You just mentioned directors and Marci I wondered how receptive obviously can't talk specifics, but just in general we've been discussing the dynamics between the actors themselves, but we all know that myriad of stories and you would know many more than me about directors and we can name them. But do you think of somebody like Bogdanovich who was serially fell in love with these actresses, Luc Besson the same infamously left one wife literally on the set for another, that he fell in love with. And what's the feeling with directors, are they fully on board with this? Or do they need to be sort of coached as well?

Marci Liroff: Since it is a new position, yes, there's definitely a learning curve with directors because some are grateful to have us there and there's an education process that we need to do to help people understand what the job is, because some directors feel like we're kind of stepping into their territory, you got to read the room. And so I will lay back more in a situation like that where they feel like I can do this, I don't need you. However, if there's abuse going on, you know, I don't like to be the sex police and a lot of people see this job as the sex police or that we are where HR and that's really not what it should be. But if there's abuse going on, then certainly that's something that has to stop. But I'm not seeing that as much the Me Too movement trickle down and rose up and it gave people their voices. And I just don't feel like it's going to go back in time. I feel like we've now found our voices and we're not going to be taken advantage of anymore and we have backup. There are now things in place so that, that can't happen anymore.

Lisa: Hopefully the old serial misogynist director, hopefully they're dying breed, they're dying out. But even just as recently as Blue is the Warmest Color, which is a movie, I adored that movie. For me, it was just a very important movie to watch it personally. And later to hear the actresses in this highly lauded movie come out and say, yeah, we really felt pushed and abused by our director. And these are, I mean, Lea Seydoux is like not a nobody in her world. I mean she probably had the power to say, I'm not doing this, but it just shows you that when you're on the set and you're exhausted and you're pushed that you can still be taken advantage of.

Marci Liroff: And you can't say no to the people that have hiring and firing power, that's the problem. And so I'm there to make sure that that doesn't happen.

Lisa: I was just reading something that really shocked me. This is a story about Paul Haggis during Crash. Thandy Newton has recently said that, this is the sneaky thing Marci in these scripts, it's a very like an oblique scene, maybe it doesn't specifically say that there's something sexual going on, it's just like implied. And so that kind of gives the director creative license to just have something happen. And how Thandy says that Matt Dillon was instructed to stick his hand up her skirt and simulate assaulting her, but she didn't know that that was going to happen. Again, it's wanting to see the real reaction of the real woman being really humiliated. We have to call it out.

Marci Liroff: We are.

Lisa: Yeah, really.

Dean: Okay. Bear with me folks. I do need 60 seconds of your valuable time just to set this clip up so that you fully understand what's happening. Absolutely visuals. All right, this clip comes from a mini documentary of a movie titled “Keep Breathing” and we'll put a link in our show notes to this and all of the other clips that we reference in this episode. The first voice you hear on this clip is from one of the actors of the film guide called Damien Moloney, and then you'll hear from the IC in this film Aidan O'Brien. You'll hear snatches of conversations also from other actresses talking about sex scenes, Reese Witherspoon and Amy Schumer. And just for context, the movie that Aidan references about a minute and a half into this little snippet is the notorious scene that was filmed for Last Tango in Paris, where Bertolucci and Brando pretty much conspired to surprise in the actress Maria Schneider about Marlon’s use of a bar of soap that he used, unbeknownst to her as a prop for lubricant for a simulated anal scene”. The comments from Aidan echo very accurately, what Marcy covers in much more detail in this podcast episode with that as a setup, here we go.

Damien Moloney: The first few intimate scenes you do is actually you're so terrified, because you have no idea what you're doing really, or how you'll be judged. You're thinking the whole world is going to look at it and think, oh my God, that's how he does this.

Speaker_1: The sex scenes were the hardest thing for me to do, honestly.

Speaker_2: It's always awkward. You got 20 crew members standing around who you had also met that week.

Speaker_3: He's like, do you want our first kiss to be on camera? And I went, yeah.

Speaker_4: So if you’re doing the kiss and relax and you'll receive it great. And intimacy coordinator is somebody who brings a clear structure and a process when choreographing intimate scenes both in theater, TV and film. So historically actors have been vulnerable in intimate content because whereas with a fight, the injury that you're taking care of can be physical, with intimate content, the injury can be physical, but it also can be emotional and psychological. And call your personal and private intimate body at play, and of course, if you're touched in those personal private places in a way that is not right for you, that might be abusive to you or might be triggering all of that needs to be taken care of. We had a young actress approached by two men, the director and the costar springing a scene on that person that they weren't expecting and also talking about preparing a lubricant for the scene and that actress talking about feeling that she felt a little raped. That incident really having severe repercussions that actress never acted again.

Speaker_5: So I've been aware of practice in the industry to date, which variably the intimate contact wasn't spoken about clearly. Actors were left to sort of just work out themselves or just go for it, just improvise. And both of those situations leads the actor in a situation where it stops being professional and there’s that awkwardness of just trying to work out and then that's where you have the personal body being in play rather than making sure that you're serving character and the physicality you do is really serving the storytelling.

Speaker_6: The scene in The Night Manager, Elizabeth Debicki spoke afterwards about how she felt the best case scenario was that you got on well with your other actor. And that they did the scene in one take and they met up at the tea caddy as if it never happened. Already that thing of going into shame, we don't want that, we want our actors to be able to feel comfortable and open the feeling that they've done a good day of work in real presence, with the work that they were doing.

Dean: Hi there listeners. You know we love putting the pod together and we certainly hope that you enjoy hearing from us, but we would love to hear from you. How do we do this you say? Well, if you visit our website, www.killercastingpod.com, you'll see a widget there for a little service called speak pipe and you can record a message and send it to us as an audio file. So whether it's a question about an episode we've already done, maybe you've got a suggestion about a topic or a film or a series that we could jump into. We would love to hear from you, and you can be on the pod, we'll hear from you soon, bye.

Lisa: Is there anything else you want to tell us about your experiences so far in this very important position. And then I just want to talk about our favorite sex scenes basically.

Marci Liroff: Well, one of the things I've noticed since I started is I come home feeling really good. Like, feeling very useful and very appreciated. And it's been a long time since my work has given me that because as you know as casting directors, everyone takes credit, they'll take credit for what we do. How many times have you heard of directors say, I found so and so after looking at thousands of girls, it's like, no, you didn't actually. I looked thousands of girls and I brought her to you and jumped up and down on the table to get you to hire her. So I feel like I come home at the end of the day and I feel appreciated the actors pulled me aside afterwards and say thank you so much. There's so many thank you’s going on and there's relief going on with these actors that I'm there. Now, mind you, there are some actors that are like, I don't need you, stay out of my grill and I need to know to step back and let them do their thing, because again there's a learning curve there because they're like, this show did not have an IC the last time. So there was definitely a learning curve with me coming on. And I need to know when to step back. The problem is sometimes an actor will not want me around, but their partner wants me. So that's very tricky.

Lisa: And do you help the crew to understand what kind of privacy that's needed. And because I did it, once where I was a rape victim and I was left nude on the stage, I just had my socks on. I was so not taking care of like getting there, getting off the stage, getting back to my dressing. I mean everybody like everybody just, you know what I mean? It was just all out there.

Marci Liroff: So I'm glad you brought that up. So another huge part of my job is enforcing the closed set rules because we guarantee these actors that it will be a closed set. And what that means exactly is that we have only essential people on the set. And then nowadays we have monitors everywhere, all over the set. And so we have to make sure that all those monitors are a tinted or flagged. So the crew can't be walking by and be watching the monitor. And also, and that's part of the new set contract, is that this is one of the things that the ICs help them put into the contract, is that the costume people have to be standing by with a robe or cover up so that every time we cut in between takes they throw a robe over them and they're very conscientious about that. So I work with the ADs, the assistant directors to make sure that all the monitors are locked up before every scene. And so it is a little bit like the sex police where I'm running around the set trying to make sure you can't be standing here, and to make sure we're the costume people are providing them with robes. And I also cover background actors. Anytime they have a nude scene stimulated sex to work with them well and make sure that they understand the writer and what that means before they sign it and make sure that it gets signed.

Lisa: Oh, that's amazing. Guys, any other questions on this topic that I just want to talk about sex. So I'm just very curious for all of you. A lot of people learn about sex on TV and in movies and how to treat the other people and what's allowed and what I mean, I just remembered, I think that The Big Easy, there's a scene in The Big Easy where Ellen is, she's getting fingered or something. I don't know what it was, but it wasn't like the traditional thing that we always see this Hollywood clutch with the man on top and the woman on bottom, and I was just like it was so scandalous to me and she's completely clothed but like it's happening under her skirt and I was like damn, you know, that was like really erotic for me and very empowering in a weird way. Like it just, it just wasn't the A B C by the numbers.

Marci Liroff: It wasn't conventional at all and it was very raw. It's probably very raw for that time. I didn’t see any skin and it was still erotic.

Lisa: Exactly exactly. And I just wonder if you have other movies or moments that really stick with you. I mean I'll never forget Monster's Ball was just like. What a traumatic if you haven't seen it, Halle Berry and Billy Bob Thornton are having sex and they're both very wounded people who have big secrets that the other doesn't know and they're coming together. I mean something I'm just wondering if each of you have any things to share?

Brian: Coming up in the 80s when cable was just becoming kind of getting into households. Like, I remember my grandparents had cable and I remember when I got to a certain age when I got to be a teen and they would go to bed and I would be in the living room. It was moving the chair in front of the TV just in case and keeping the volume really low so that if they did come around, it was just like, it wasn't like I had a remote either. It was the console, you remember the console? You had like the trigger that with the triple, it had multiple numbers on or whatever. So like having a memorized of like okay, I'm going to move to this channel, like I knew where to go. So as a kid, I was thinking about this so like 48 hours was one of those movies where it was like female nudity. But I haven't thought of this movie in decades, but The Lonely Lady Pia Zadora. No? No? Nobody knows? Nobody remembers this?

Dean: I didn't see it. But yes, I went flash. I think I said the title card.

Brian: Holy shit. So as a kid, like 12-13 watching that. I mean, it's a terrible fucking movie first of all. I think it's based on a like a really bad romance novel or whatever they made in to a movie. But she's like, I think she gets raped with a hose. I mean she's not married. Like she's kind of a hostess at a strip club. There's something at the end of the movie and she wins an Oscar for best writing. She goes, I guess I not the only one who had to fuck my way to the top and she saunters off the stage in victory. And it's just like, but as a kid, all I cared about was the nudity. And I still remember those babysitter jobs where it's the snow, like you land on the channel that they didn't have access to, but it would be snowy, but every so often it would like come into focus and so it was just like waiting in like anticipation of a moment. I was like, okay, I caught it, that's my story that's it.

Lisa: Okay, Dean.

Dean: Only until recently did we get cable over here, but we didn't grow up with cable as you describe it. But there was a period in the eighties where the federal government funded a thing called the SBS the Special Broadcasting Service and this was basically ethnic television. So all of a sudden on free to broadcasts, we've got all these French and Italian movies and there's full frontal nudity and there was just all this stuff happening, which didn't happen in Australian TV at all. So that just blew people's minds. So that was just flashed on that. Okay, so not so much scenes but films that I liked. And it's ironically so that you just mentioned The Big Easy because the director of the Big Easy Guy called Jim Mcbride is one of my favorite directors. He also made Great Balls of Fire with Dennis Quaid, yes. But one of my favorite films of all time is a movie that probably no one's ever heard of. It was made in 81 by Jim. It was called Breathless and it was a remake. Yeah, brilliant movie. And talk about killer casting.

Lisa: Richard Gere and that young girl I can’t remember her name.

Dean: I'll never forget it. Don't worry. Valerie Kaprisky.

Lisa: Valerie Kaprisky.

Dean: So it's this doomed romance set in LA and it’s just perfect casting. Richard Gere is just handsome as fuck. He's just absolutely at his peak and she is just gorgeous. And the chemistry between them is unbelievable. So they have a few sex scenes but it's just whenever they're in those scenes, it's just so hot. It's brilliant that for me was a great film. Also a film that I think even today is just still holds up is Lawrence Kasdan, I think it's 1981 as well, Body Heat which is an amazing film. It's so sultry, it's set in hot wet sticky Florida and that's kind of how the movie rolls and it's an amazing film and looking at it recently, it was Kathleen Turner's first role and she just owns the movie. Absolutely owns it. And it's an odd film because the two leads were almost unknown. So she was unknown. William Hurt had done  Altered States for that Cronenberg I think. So they were the two leads and really the biggest name in it was Richard Crenna. You know, it's a beautiful one of the best Neo Noirs ever made. But apparently they turned up and there was a shooting schedule and then there was a change in the shooting schedule. Marci you would have had a heart attack. So they've got this fully naked face to face sex scene. They go, I'm sorry we've got to do this on day one. Day one there into this full on sex scene between the two of them and they hadn't met before the film. But so credit to them and to cast on who wrote and directed it because as it turns out, it's just absolutely fantastic. There's a couple of hits for me that really I never forgotten just made me go, wow.

Lisa: You brought up something really interesting Marci, do you have any say in how soon the sex scenes will be shot? I mean it's so it's all based on location and schedule and everything. Do you try to get together ahead, obviously ahead of time before.

Marci Liroff: Well new SAG Rules, which also we accomplished a lot on this contract. The new SAG rules say that we have to give the actor and the representatives a draft of the nudity rider, at least a minimum 48 hours ahead of the scene that we're going to shoot it. Because it used to be that we would give it to them on the set to sign. And what they would try to do is like add things to it on the day. And so this way, with the 48 hour rule, they can't add anything new to it. If the producers want to add something new to it, it starts the clock over. So it kind of keeps it so that these are the things that are on the rider, this is what we're sticking to. We can always make it less, but we can't add new things to it. Some things that I get concerned about is a lot of actresses won't eat when they have a nude scene. And so if they make the nude scene at the end of the day, they're going to be feeling pretty rough and cranky and low blood sugar and things like that. So I will talk to the ADs about that in terms of scheduling, yes, it does come down to location and shooting schedule and things like that. Some of my movies or shows that I remember there are a lot of really great scenes in Euphoria if you take a look at it, it was very interesting and very well done. There's a little indie movie that took place eons, Desert Hearts, and it had two women in a scene that I thought was very erotic. And it stuck with me for one reason or another. Another scene when you talk about actors saying this has to be real and genuine is word has it that on Officer and a Gentleman, there is a really beautiful love seeing simulated sex scene with Richard Gere and Debra Winger and they say that they were actually doing it.

Lisa: Hmm, never heard that, wow.

Marci Liroff: And then just stylized just hot stuff, which is Nine and a Half weeks of course.

Lisa: That's on my list.

Marci Liroff: Of course. I mean Adrian Lyne really knows how to shoot that stuff and he has a terrific eye in terms of certainly cinematography, but also like I saw him once taking, I'm forgetting what movie it was, that he was taking actress around shopping. Like he has a great eye for costuming and music and all that stuff. So I mean, those scenes were very 80s, 90s, whatever it was.

Lisa: Very introducing people to kink light because I think nowadays we look at the film and go, yeah, whatever. That's like that's a Tuesday for me. But do you remember the big controversy in Blue Valentine? Because Ryan Gosling was like going down on Michelle Williams. And it's like people were in shock that he was going down on her and it’s like really? Really why is that shocking? Why is that controversy? Yeah, it was like a really big deal and you know, how many times have we seen women - Yeah, exactly. But I'm a big fan Unfaithful, Brokeback Mountain, that's a very romantic movie. I love that movie. Boys Don't Cry, Secretary, High Art and Out of Sight, Dean loves that movie Out of Sight.

Dean: Yeah, great film.

Lisa: And most recently, if you guys watched Mrs. Fletcher, there's some incredible, incredible scenes and of course, another Kathryn Hahn, “I Love Dick”, love it, love it. Just great sex, great stories, great and on the downside, I mean Handmaid's Tale is so grotesque, but it's a very necessary story. I mean, nobody loves to see sexualized violence, but sometimes those stories really need to be told. And I think The Handmaid's Tale just blows it right up.

Marci Liroff: I agree. I mean, I think it's very obvious, at least to smart people like us. We can tell what is gratuitous and what is not, and what really makes sense to the storytelling and like you said in Handmaid's Tale, it's very rough to watch, but it is telling a story that needs to be told.

Dean: Well certainly somebody that could give a master class on how to deal with sex scenes would be the gorgeous Emilia Clarke who of course played Daenerys Storm Born on Game of Thrones, and here she is talking with actor and filmmaker Jay Duplass about that first season of Game of Thrones take it away Emilia.

Emilia Clarke: Season one of Game of Thrones, everything just did it all. I got raped, I came out of the fire, I was butt naked, fights all of it, I was pregnant and then lost it, and then kind of gave birth to something else. And so season one was the most challenging out of everything. But the naked stuff is always difficult. It's always hard because it's just uncomfortable for many, many, many reasons.

Jay: So many reasons, yeah.

Emilia: And you have to like, it's weird as the actor, I feel like you have to be the one who comes on and says, it's okay, guys everything's going to be fine. Well you guys can chill. It's not a big deal.

Jay: No one ever told me that.

Emilia: You've all seen it. You know, everything is going to be fine.

Jay: It is really weird though, because it's one of the few times where you can't just be in the moment. Because it's like the most choreographed stuff that you have to do and nothing really is going on. So you have to, it's basically like doing Pilates for a long time without any reward to come. Like that's what you don't realize when you're having sex, there's a reward that's coming at the end of this, when you're not, you're just like, God, my core sucks, everything sucks, right? It's a weird thing.

Emilia: It's weird. It is weird.

Lisa: Brian what do you have?

Brian: What I was going to say was, I can't imagine being a teenager in this day and age where you could just hop on the internet and have ready access to pornography just like that. And I'm not saying that the way that I approached sex or trying to find naked scenes in 1980s movies like Porky or Porky's II.

Marci Liroff: I cast those movies. And the same man directed a Christmas story, which I also cast. Bob Clark. He directed all these movies.

Brian: There's a kind of innocence about seeking out those movies, because it's tricky and I grew up in Texas in a pretty conservative evangelical household. So my idea of sex from word go is already kind of like things that I've had to work through. I don't know what this is related to or but there is something about the innocence of like those 80s movies of like going to your best friend's house for to spend the night because like I said, 48 hours is on. And there's a nude scene, you know what I mean?

Marci Liroff: Imagine being a young boy or girl having such readily ready access to porn and that is your education to sex and there's so much violence against women, men in porn and that's how they're learning to treat women is really scary.

Dean: Before we get emails and people start pinging… Altered States was Ken Russell, I've just remembered not Cronenberg. And Brian talking about access to sex as teenagers back in the day. At one point I think we were 15 or 16 school holidays. We wanted to go into the pictures, right? The cinema. And see a film and where you look at the paper, the old printed paper, what's on. And we're looking there was not much on. So we saw this movie and it stars Al Pacino. So we're like, oh Al Pacino, you know  he's a cool guy, Serpico and all this.

Marci Liroff: I know what you're talking about.

Dean: Great so here we go.

Marci Liroff: Cruising.

Dean: Oh yeah, yeah. So we walk into the cinema with three 15-16 year old boys. We sit down, we're looking around going, well there's like just all these guys in here, because we didn't know what the film was about. We thought it was like Al Pacino is searching for a killer and we're like, okay great sitting there eating our popcorn and the opening scene is a male, it's this guy screwing a guy in the ass and the guys tied up, it's a bondage scene and we're sort of looking at each other, because we're totally white bread and we're like, what the fuck is this? And then of course the guy whips out a knife and it's very graphic and just brutally mutilates and stabs this guy to death. And all these old guys are looking at us and we're looking like we're too scared to move. We’re shocked by the content, were shocked, like, “uhhh” so we're whispering right, if anybody makes a move, we're going to punch them and run. So we sat through the whole movie, which is a very important movie and a great movie. But as soon as the credits were up, we were like, let's just get out of here and we ran like hell, but that made an impact. I haven't forgotten that.

Lisa: I love all that, I could talk about sex forever, but we don't have forever. Marci, you're my queen. I'm so grateful that we met each other, I'm so glad that we connected and I hope that you continue and what you're doing is so important. I'm so glad to educate our audiences about it and hopefully get the word out. So this becomes the norm and much healthier place. I want you to stay safe out there.

Marci Liroff: You guys too, nice to meet you all.

Dean: Nice to meet you Marci, thank you.

Lisa: And so for now this is Killer Casting signing off.

Brian: Killer casting is a concept created and produced by Lisa Zambetti. Audio engineering by Dean Laffan, mobile art by April Laffan. Website and big fat opinions courtesy of me Brian Allan Hill.

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