Moon Or Bust

Subscribe to our Benzinga Crypto Youtube Channel

Episode Summary:

Crypto Market UpdateWatch podcast videohere

Meet The Hosts:

Logan Ross

Crypto & JPEG Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain & MDAO summoner | MAYC #383 | Meebit #4659

https://twitter.com/logannross

Ryan McNamara

Bought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | MAYC #21468 | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2017 (sorry planet Earth)

https://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamara

Disclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.

Check Out Other Benzinga Podcasts Here:Check Out All Benzinga Crypto News HereGet Moon or Bust Crypto Merch HereJoin the Telegram: https://t.me/moonorbustBZ for 25% of Moon or Bust Podcast swag.Claim 1000 ZING airdrop: https://www.benzinga.com/zing

Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/moon-or-bust/donations

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Subscribe to our Benzinga Crypto Youtube Channel

Episode Summary:

Crypto Market UpdateHollywood on Blockchain ft FLIX FoundersWatch podcast videohere

Meet The Hosts:

Logan Ross

Crypto & JPEG Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain & MDAO summoner | MAYC #383 | Meebit #4659

https://twitter.com/logannross

Ryan McNamara

Bought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | MAYC #21468 | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2017 (sorry planet Earth)

https://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamara

Disclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.

Check Out Other Benzinga Podcasts Here:Check Out All Benzinga Crypto News HereGet Moon or Bust Crypto Merch HereJoin the Telegram: https://t.me/moonorbustBZ for 25% of Moon or Bust Podcast swag.Claim 1000 ZING airdrop: https://www.benzinga.com/zing

Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/moon-or-bust/donations

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Subscribe to our Benzinga Crypto Youtube Channel

Episode Summary:

Crypto Market UpdateWatch podcast videohere

Meet The Hosts:

Logan Ross

Crypto & JPEG Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain & MDAO summoner | MAYC #383 | Meebit #4659

https://twitter.com/logannross

Ryan McNamara

Bought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | MAYC #21468 | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2017 (sorry planet Earth)

https://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamara

Disclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.

Check Out Other Benzinga Podcasts Here:Check Out All Benzinga Crypto News HereGet Moon or Bust Crypto Merch HereJoin the Telegram: https://t.me/moonorbustBZ for 25% of Moon or Bust Podcast swag.Claim 1000 ZING airdrop: https://www.benzinga.com/zing

Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/moon-or-bust/donations

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Subscribe to our Benzinga Crypto Youtube Channel

Episode Summary:

CoinFlex CEO interviewCrypto Market updateNFT NYCWatch podcast videohere

Meet The Hosts:

Logan Ross

Crypto & JPEG Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain & MDAO summoner | MAYC #383 | Meebit #4659

https://twitter.com/logannross

Ryan McNamara

Bought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | MAYC #21468 | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2017 (sorry planet Earth)

https://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamara

Disclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.

Check Out Other Benzinga Podcasts Here:Check Out All Benzinga Crypto News HereGet Moon or Bust Crypto Merch HereJoin the Telegram: https://t.me/moonorbustBZ for 25% of Moon or Bust Podcast swag.Claim 1000 ZING airdrop: https://www.benzinga.com/zing

Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/moon-or-bust/donations

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Subscribe to our Benzinga Crypto Youtube Channel

Episode Summary:

Crypto market updateNFT NYC Recap. Cooltopia & ApefestInflation RatesWatch podcast videohere

Meet The Hosts:

Logan Ross

Crypto & JPEG Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain & MDAO summoner | MAYC #383 | Meebit #4659

https://twitter.com/logannross

Ryan McNamara

Bought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | MAYC #21468 | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2017 (sorry planet Earth)

https://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamara

Disclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.

Check Out Other Benzinga Podcasts Here:Check Out All Benzinga Crypto News HereGet Moon or Bust Crypto Merch HereJoin the Telegram: https://t.me/moonorbustBZ for 25% of Moon or Bust Podcast swag.Claim 1000 ZING airdrop: https://www.benzinga.com/zing

Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/moon-or-bust/donations

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Subscribe to our Benzinga Crypto Youtube Channel

Episode Summary:

Crypto market updateElvis Presley NFTsDecentraland interview, Adam De Carta, Run It Wild directorWatch podcast videohere

Meet The Hosts:

Logan Ross

Crypto & JPEG Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain & MDAO summoner | MAYC #383 | Meebit #4659

https://twitter.com/logannross

Ryan McNamara

Bought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | MAYC #21468 | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2017 (sorry planet Earth)

https://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamara

Disclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.

Check Out Other Benzinga Podcasts Here:Check Out All Benzinga Crypto News HereGet Moon or Bust Crypto Merch HereJoin the Telegram: https://t.me/moonorbustBZ for 25% of Moon or Bust Podcast swag.Claim 1000 ZING airdrop: https://www.benzinga.com/zing

Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/moon-or-bust/donations

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Subscribe to our Benzinga Crypto Youtube Channel

Episode Summary:

Bitcoin rips over $31KCrypto and NFT opportunitiesParcl CEO interviewMoon or Bust - To Play Moon or Bust go to https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrencyWatch podcast videohere

Meet The Hosts:

Logan Ross

Crypto & JPEG Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain & MDAO summoner | MAYC #383 | Meebit #4659

https://twitter.com/logannross

Ryan McNamara

Bought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | MAYC #21468 | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2017 (sorry planet Earth)

https://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamara

Disclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.

Check Out Other Benzinga Podcasts Here:Check Out All Benzinga Crypto News HereGet Moon or Bust Crypto Merch HereJoin the Telegram: https://t.me/moonorbustBZ for 25% of Moon or Bust Podcast swag.Claim 1000 ZING airdrop: https://www.benzinga.com/zing

Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/moon-or-bust/donations

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Subscribe to our Benzinga Crypto Youtube Channel

Episode Summary:

Layer 2 SummerOptimism Airdrop is live $OPMatt Liu, Origin Protocol Founder interviewMoon or Bust - To Play Moon or Bust go to https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrencyWatch podcast videohere

Meet The Hosts:

Logan Ross

Crypto & JPEG Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain & MDAO summoner | MAYC #383 | Meebit #4659

https://twitter.com/logannross

Ryan McNamara

Bought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | MAYC #21468 | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2017 (sorry planet Earth)

https://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamara

Disclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.

Check Out Other Benzinga Podcasts Here:Check Out All Benzinga Crypto News HereGet Moon or Bust Crypto Merch HereJoin the Telegram: https://t.me/moonorbustBZ for 25% of Moon or Bust Podcast swag.Claim 1000 ZING airdrop: https://www.benzinga.com/zing

Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/moon-or-bust/donations

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Subscribe to our Benzinga Crypto Youtube Channel

Episode Summary:

Interview with Colle Marketplace Founder and CEO, Akos Balogh.How to make a DAO with no codeLayer 2 SummerSoul-Bound Tokens (SBTs)Moon or Bust - To Play Moon or Bust go to https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrencyWatch podcast videohere

For video and charts of this podcast please visit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INjD-A2ruso

Meet The Hosts:

Logan Ross

Crypto & JPEG Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain & MDAO summoner | MAYC #383 | Meebit #4659

https://twitter.com/logannross

Ryan McNamara

Bought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | MAYC #21468 | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2017 (sorry planet Earth)

https://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamara

Disclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.

Check Out Other Benzinga Podcasts Here:Check Out All Benzinga Crypto News HereGet Moon or Bust Crypto Merch HereJoin the Telegram: https://t.me/moonorbustBZ for 25% of Moon or Bust Podcast swag.Claim 1000 ZING airdrop: https://www.benzinga.com/zing

Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/moon-or-bust/donations

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Subscribe to our Benzinga Crypto Youtube Channel

Episode Summary:

Crypto Market UpdateInterview with Brett JohnsonCybercriminalsMoon or Bust - To Play Moon or Bust go to https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrencyWatch podcast videohere

For video and charts of this podcast please visit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INjD-A2ruso

Meet The Hosts:

Logan Ross

Crypto & JPEG Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain & MDAO summoner | MAYC #383 | Meebit #4659

https://twitter.com/logannross

Ryan McNamara

Bought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | MAYC #21468 | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2017 (sorry planet Earth)

https://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamara

Disclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.

Check Out Other Benzinga Podcasts Here:Check Out All Benzinga Crypto News HereGet Moon or Bust Crypto Merch HereJoin the Telegram: https://t.me/moonorbustBZ for 25% of Moon or Bust Podcast swag.Claim 1000 ZING airdrop: https://www.benzinga.com/zing

Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/moon-or-bust/donations

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Subscribe to our Benzinga Crypto Youtube Channel

Episode Summary:

Crypto market update (McDonald's is hiring)Tokens we are buyingWhy is Terra Luna crashing?Baran Ozmen interviewMoon or Bust - To Play Moon or Bust go to https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrencyWatch podcast videohere

For video and charts of this podcast please visit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INjD-A2ruso

Meet The Hosts:

Logan Ross

Crypto & JPEG Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain & MDAO summoner | MAYC #383 | Meebit #4659

https://twitter.com/logannross

Ryan McNamara

Bought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | MAYC #21468 | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2017 (sorry planet Earth)

https://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamara

Disclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.

Check Out Other Benzinga Podcasts Here:Check Out All Benzinga Crypto News HereGet Moon or Bust Crypto Merch HereJoin the Telegram: https://t.me/moonorbustBZ for 25% of Moon or Bust Podcast swag.Claim 1000 ZING airdrop: https://www.benzinga.com/zing

Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/moon-or-bust/donations

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Subscribe to our Benzinga Crypto Youtube Channel

Episode Summary:

Bitcoin CRASHPolygonUniswapChainlinkBNBMoon or Bust - To Play Moon or Bust go to https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrency

For video and charts of this podcast please visit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INjD-A2ruso

Meet The Hosts:

Logan Ross

Crypto & JPEG Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain & MDAO summoner | MAYC #383 | Meebit #4659

https://twitter.com/logannross

Ryan McNamara

Bought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | MAYC #21468 | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2017 (sorry planet Earth)

https://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamara

Disclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.

Check Out Other Benzinga Podcasts Here:Check Out All Benzinga Crypto News HereGet Moon or Bust Crypto Merch HereJoin the Telegram: https://t.me/moonorbustBZ for 25% of Moon or Bust Podcast swag.Claim 1000 ZING airdrop: https://www.benzinga.com/zing

Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/moon-or-bust/donations

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Subscribe to our Benzinga Crypto Youtube Channel

Episode Summary:

Are we in a bear market?Crypto market updateInterview with Alex Adelman, Lolli CEOMoon or Bust - To Play Moon or Bust go to https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrency

For video and charts of this podcast please visit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INjD-A2ruso

Meet The Hosts:

Logan Ross

Crypto & JPEG Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain & MDAO summoner | MAYC #383 | Meebit #4659

https://twitter.com/logannross

Ryan McNamara

Bought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | MAYC #21468 | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2017 (sorry planet Earth)

https://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamara

Disclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.

Check Out Other Benzinga Podcasts Here:Check Out All Benzinga Crypto News HereGet Moon or Bust Crypto Merch HereJoin the Telegram: https://t.me/moonorbustBZ for 25% of Moon or Bust Podcast swag.Claim 1000 ZING airdrop: https://www.benzinga.com/zing

Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/moon-or-bust/donations

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Subscribe to our Benzinga Crypto Youtube Channel

Episode Summary:

Otherside: OtherdeedsHow should Yuga Labs have done the sale?Moon or Bust - To Play Moon or Bust go to https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrency

For video and charts of this podcast please visit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INjD-A2ruso

Meet The Hosts:

Logan Ross

Crypto & JPEG Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain & MDAO summoner | MAYC #383 | Meebit #4659

https://twitter.com/logannross

Ryan McNamara

Bought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | MAYC #21468 | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2017 (sorry planet Earth)

https://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamara

Disclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.

Check Out Other Benzinga Podcasts Here:Check Out All Benzinga Crypto News HereGet Moon or Bust Crypto Merch HereJoin the Telegram: https://t.me/moonorbustBZ for 25% of Moon or Bust Podcast swag.Claim 1000 ZING airdrop: https://www.benzinga.com/zing

Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/moon-or-bust/donations

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Subscribe to our Benzinga Crypto Youtube Channel

Episode Summary:

Bored Ape Yacht Club Otherside, what you need to knowCrypto Market updateApecoinMoon or Bust - To Play Moon or Bust go to https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrency

For video and charts of this podcast please visit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INjD-A2ruso

Meet The Hosts:

Logan Ross

Crypto & JPEG Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain & MDAO summoner | MAYC #383 | Meebit #4659

https://twitter.com/logannross

Ryan McNamara

Bought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | MAYC #21468 | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2017 (sorry planet Earth)

https://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamara

Disclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.

Check Out Other Benzinga Podcasts Here:Check Out All Benzinga Crypto News HereGet Moon or Bust Crypto Merch HereJoin the Telegram: https://t.me/moonorbustBZ for 25% of Moon or Bust Podcast swag.Claim 1000 ZING airdrop: https://www.benzinga.com/zing

Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/moon-or-bust/donations

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Subscribe to our Benzinga Crypto Youtube Channel

Episode Summary:

Cool Pets DEMOMutant Ape Yacht Club with new ATH, Otherside Land launch date, Airdrops for BAYC & MYAC, Whitelist for other NFT Projects.Moon or Bust - To Play Moon or Bust go to https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrency

For video and charts of this podcast please visit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdWrr6lyePM&list=PL4k0fH8EgI3Yt7nM8KQhBjz-XtKwhaM8h&index=3&t=1564s

Meet The Hosts:

Logan Ross

Crypto & JPEG Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain & MDAO summoner | MAYC #383 | Meebit #4659

https://twitter.com/logannross

Ryan McNamara

Bought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | MAYC #21468 | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2017 (sorry planet Earth)

https://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamara

Disclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.

Check Out Other Benzinga Podcasts Here:Check Out All Benzinga Crypto News HereGet Moon or Bust Crypto Merch HereJoin the Telegram: https://t.me/moonorbustBZ for 25% of Moon or Bust Podcast swag.Claim 1000 ZING airdrop: https://www.benzinga.com/zing

Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/moon-or-bust/donations

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Subscribe to our Benzinga Crypto Youtube Channel

Episode Summary:

Bored Ape Yacht Club Otherside, what you need to knowCrypto Market updateApecoinMoon or Bust - To Play Moon or Bust go to https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrency

For video and charts of this podcast please visit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INjD-A2ruso

Meet The Hosts:

Logan Ross

Crypto & JPEG Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain & MDAO summoner | MAYC #383 | Meebit #4659

https://twitter.com/logannross

Ryan McNamara

Bought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | MAYC #21468 | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2017 (sorry planet Earth)

https://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamara

Disclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.

Check Out Other Benzinga Podcasts Here:Check Out All Benzinga Crypto News HereGet Moon or Bust Crypto Merch HereJoin the Telegram: https://t.me/moonorbustBZ for 25% of Moon or Bust Podcast swag.Claim 1000 ZING airdrop: https://www.benzinga.com/zing

Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/moon-or-bust/donations

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Subscribe to our Benzinga Crypto Youtube Channel

Episode Summary:

PolyNetwork HackMarket UpdateAxie Infinity Co-Founder InterviewMoon or Bust - To Play Moon or Bust go to https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrency

For video and charts of this podcast please visit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INjD-A2ruso

Meet The Hosts:

Logan Ross

Crypto & JPEG Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain & MDAO summoner | MAYC #383 | Meebit #4659

https://twitter.com/logannross

Ryan McNamara

Bought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | MAYC #21468 | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2017 (sorry planet Earth)

https://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamara

Disclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.

Check Out Other Benzinga Podcasts Here:Check Out All Benzinga Crypto News HereGet Moon or Bust Crypto Merch HereJoin the Telegram: https://t.me/moonorbustBZ for 25% of Moon or Bust Podcast swag.Claim 1000 ZING airdrop: https://www.benzinga.com/zing

Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/moon-or-bust/donations

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Subscribe to our Benzinga Crypto Youtube Channel

Episode Summary:

Market UpdateWhat to Expect for Crypto in Q2 2022 Moon or Bust - To Play Moon or Bust go to https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrency

For video and charts of this podcast please visit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INjD-A2ruso

Meet The Hosts:

Logan Ross

Crypto & JPEG Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain & MDAO summoner | MAYC #383 | Meebit #4659

https://twitter.com/logannross

Ryan McNamara

Bought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | MAYC #21468 | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2017 (sorry planet Earth)

https://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamara

Disclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.

Check Out Other Benzinga Podcasts Here:Check Out All Benzinga Crypto News HereGet Moon or Bust Crypto Merch HereJoin the Telegram: https://t.me/moonorbustBZ for 25% of Moon or Bust Podcast swag.Claim 1000 ZING airdrop: https://www.benzinga.com/zing

Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/moon-or-bust/donations

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Subscribe to our Benzinga Crypto Youtube Channel

Episode Summary:

Replay From Aug 11, 2021PolyNetwork HackMarket UpdateAxie Infinity Co-Founder InterviewMoon or Bust - To Play Moon or Bust go to https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrency

For video and charts of this podcast please visit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INjD-A2ruso

Meet The Hosts:

Logan Ross

Crypto & JPEG Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain & MDAO summoner | MAYC #383 | Meebit #4659

https://twitter.com/logannross

Ryan McNamara

Bought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | MAYC #21468 | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2017 (sorry planet Earth)

https://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamara

Disclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.

Check Out Other Benzinga Podcasts Here:Check Out All Benzinga Crypto News HereGet Moon or Bust Crypto Merch HereJoin the Telegram: https://t.me/moonorbustBZ for 25% of Moon or Bust Podcast swag.Claim 1000 ZING airdrop: https://www.benzinga.com/zing

Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/moon-or-bust/donations

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

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Subscribe to our Benzinga Crypto Youtube Channel

Episode Summary:

Market UpdateMoon or Bust - To Play Moon or Bust go to https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrency

For video and charts of this podcast please visit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INjD-A2ruso

Meet The Hosts:

Logan Ross

Crypto & JPEG Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain & MDAO summoner | MAYC #383 | Meebit #4659

https://twitter.com/logannross

Ryan McNamara

Bought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | MAYC #21468 | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2017 (sorry planet Earth)

https://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamara

Disclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.

Check Out Other Benzinga Podcasts Here:Check Out All Benzinga Crypto News HereGet Moon or Bust Crypto Merch HereJoin the Telegram: https://t.me/moonorbustBZ for 25% of Moon or Bust Podcast swag.Claim 1000 ZING airdrop: https://www.benzinga.com/zing

Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/moon-or-bust/donations

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Subscribe to our Benzinga Crypto Youtube Channel

Episode Summary:

Interview with Austin Virts: Previous head of marketing at Solana, now at AudiusMarket update: NFTs, Cryptocurrency, Bitcoin, EthereumGucci Grailed 10K CollectionMoon or Bust - To Play Moon or Bust go to https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrency

For video and charts of this podcast please visit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INjD-A2ruso

Meet The Hosts:

Logan Ross

Blockchain Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain | Crypto investor and educator since 2016

https://twitter.com/logannross

Ryan McNamara

Bought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | Liquidated on ByBit | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2016 (sorry planet Earth) | $UNI Bag Holder

https://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamara

Disclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.

Check Out Other Benzinga Podcasts Here:Check Out All Benzinga Crypto News HereGet Moon or Bust Crypto Merch HereJoin the Telegram: https://t.me/moonorbustBZ for 25% of Moon or Bust Podcast swag.Claim 1000 ZING airdrop: https://www.benzinga.com/zing

Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/moon-or-bust/donations

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Subscribe to our Benzinga Crypto Youtube Channel

Episode Summary:

Apecoin analysis -- Use cases. distribution, price predictionsCrypto market updateNFT market updateYuga labs acquire CryptoPunksAirdrop history -- Uniswap, ENS domains,Moon or Bust - To Play Moon or Bust go to https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrency

For video and charts of this podcast please visit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INjD-A2ruso

Meet The Hosts:

Logan Ross

Blockchain Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain | Crypto investor and educator since 2016

https://twitter.com/logannross

Ryan McNamara

Bought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | Liquidated on ByBit | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2016 (sorry planet Earth) | $UNI Bag Holder

https://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamara

Disclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.

Check Out Other Benzinga Podcasts Here:Check Out All Benzinga Crypto News HereGet Moon or Bust Crypto Merch HereJoin the Telegram: https://t.me/moonorbustBZ for 25% of Moon or Bust Podcast swag.Claim 1000 ZING airdrop: https://www.benzinga.com/zing

Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/moon-or-bust/donations

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Subscribe to our Benzinga Crypto Youtube Channel

Episode Summary:

What are DAOs?Opolis Interview: Working for DAOs, With BenefitsMoon or Bust - To Play Moon or Bust go to https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrency

For video and charts of this podcast please visit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INjD-A2ruso

Meet The Hosts:

Logan Ross

Blockchain Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain | Crypto investor and educator since 2016

https://twitter.com/logannross

Ryan McNamara

Bought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | Liquidated on ByBit | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2016 (sorry planet Earth) | $UNI Bag Holder

https://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamara

Disclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.

Check Out Other Benzinga Podcasts Here:Check Out All Benzinga Crypto News HereGet Moon or Bust Crypto Merch HereJoin the Telegram: https://t.me/moonorbustBZ for 25% of Moon or Bust Podcast swag.Claim 1000 ZING airdrop: https://www.benzinga.com/zing

Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/moon-or-bust/donations

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Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Replay episode originally published on Jan 24, 2022

Subscribe to our Benzinga Crypto Youtube Channel

Episode Summary:

Market UpdateStar Atlas CEO Interview Moon or Bust - To Play Moon or Bust go to https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrency

For video and charts of this podcast please visit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INjD-A2ruso

Meet The Hosts:

Logan Ross

Blockchain Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain | Crypto investor and educator since 2016

https://twitter.com/logannross

Ryan McNamara

Bought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | Liquidated on ByBit | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2016 (sorry planet Earth) | $UNI Bag Holder

https://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamara

Disclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.

Check Out Other Benzinga Podcasts Here:Check Out All Benzinga Crypto News HereGet Moon or Bust Crypto Merch HereJoin the Telegram: https://t.me/moonorbustBZ for 25% of Moon or Bust Podcast swag.Claim 1000 ZING airdrop: https://www.benzinga.com/zing

Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/moon-or-bust/donations

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Subscribe to ourBenzinga Crypto Youtube Channel

Episode Summary:

What Biden's Executive Order Means for #Cryptohttps://twitter.com/davidgokhshtein interviewMarket update #BTC #ETH #NFTs #BAYCCrypto market updateMoon or Bust - To Play Moon or Bust go to https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrency

For video and charts of this podcast please visit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INjD-A2ruso

Meet The Hosts:

Logan Ross

Blockchain Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain | Crypto investor and educator since 2016

https://twitter.com/logannross

Ryan McNamara

Bought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | Liquidated on ByBit | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2016 (sorry planet Earth) | $UNI Bag Holder

https://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamara

Disclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.

Check Out Other Benzinga Podcasts Here:Check Out All Benzinga Crypto News HereGet Moon or Bust Crypto Merch HereJoin the Telegram:https://t.me/moonorbustBZfor 25% of Moon or Bust Podcast swag.Claim 1000 ZING airdrop: https://www.benzinga.com/zing

Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/moon-or-bust/donations

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Subscribe to ourBenzinga Crypto Youtube Channel

Episode Summary:

Interview with former Microsoft employee, Adam HollanderBored Ape Yacht Club BAYCNFTs- Crypto market updateMoon or Bust - To Play Moon or Bust go to https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrency

For video and charts of this podcast please visit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INjD-A2ruso

Meet The Hosts:

Logan Ross

Blockchain Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain | Crypto investor and educator since 2016

https://twitter.com/logannross

Ryan McNamara

Bought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | Liquidated on ByBit | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2016 (sorry planet Earth) | $UNI Bag Holder

https://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamara

Disclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.

Check Out Other Benzinga Podcasts Here:Check Out All Benzinga Crypto News HereGet Moon or Bust Crypto Merch HereJoin the Telegram:https://t.me/moonorbustBZfor 25% of Moon or Bust Podcast swag.Claim 1000 ZING airdrop: https://www.benzinga.com/zing

Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/moon-or-bust/donations

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Subscribe to ourBenzinga Crypto Youtube Channel

Episode Summary:

Interview with Benzinga's Crypto Reporters Chris Katje and Justin Roberti!Moon or Bust - To Play Moon or Bust go to https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrency

For video and charts of this podcast please visit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INjD-A2ruso

Meet The Hosts:

Logan Ross

Blockchain Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain | Crypto investor and educator since 2016

https://twitter.com/logannross

Ryan McNamara

Bought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | Liquidated on ByBit | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2016 (sorry planet Earth) | $UNI Bag Holder

https://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamara

Disclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.

Check Out Other Benzinga Podcasts Here:Check Out All Benzinga Crypto News HereGet Moon or Bust Crypto Merch HereJoin the Telegram:https://t.me/moonorbustBZfor 25% of Moon or Bust Podcast swag.Claim 1000 ZING airdrop: https://www.benzinga.com/zing

Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/moon-or-bust/donations

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Subscribe to ourBenzinga Crypto Youtube Channel

Episode Summary:

Parallel Finance Founder Interview Moon or Bust - To Play Moon or Bust go to https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrency

For video and charts of this podcast please visit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INjD-A2ruso

Meet The Hosts:

Logan Ross

Blockchain Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain | Crypto investor and educator since 2016

https://twitter.com/logannross

Ryan McNamara

Bought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | Liquidated on ByBit | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2016 (sorry planet Earth) | $UNI Bag Holder

https://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamara

Disclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.

Check Out Other Benzinga Podcasts Here:Check Out All Benzinga Crypto News HereGet Moon or Bust Crypto Merch HereJoin the Telegram:https://t.me/moonorbustBZfor 25% of Moon or Bust Podcast swag.Claim 1000 ZING airdrop: https://www.benzinga.com/zing

Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/moon-or-bust/donations

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Subscribe to ourBenzinga Crypto Youtube Channel

Episode Summary:

Vitalik’s Speech at ETHDenverMoon or Bust - To Play Moon or Bust go to https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrency

For video and charts of this podcast please visit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INjD-A2ruso

Meet The Hosts:

Logan Ross

Blockchain Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain | Crypto investor and educator since 2016

https://twitter.com/logannross

Ryan McNamara

Bought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | Liquidated on ByBit | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2016 (sorry planet Earth) | $UNI Bag Holder

https://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamara

Disclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.

Check Out Other Benzinga Podcasts Here:Check Out All Benzinga Crypto News HereGet Moon or Bust Crypto Merch HereJoin the Telegram:https://t.me/moonorbustBZfor 25% of Moon or Bust Podcast swag.Claim 1000 ZING airdrop: https://www.benzinga.com/zing

Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/moon-or-bust/donations

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Subscribe to ourBenzinga Crypto Youtube Channel

Episode Summary:

Market UpdateDavid Bianchi Interview on NFTsMoon or Bust - To Play Moon or Bust go to https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrency

For video and charts of this podcast please visit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INjD-A2ruso

Meet The Hosts:

Logan Ross

Blockchain Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain | Crypto investor and educator since 2016

https://twitter.com/logannross

Ryan McNamara

Bought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | Liquidated on ByBit | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2016 (sorry planet Earth) | $UNI Bag Holder

https://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamara

Disclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.

Check Out Other Benzinga Podcasts Here:Check Out All Benzinga Crypto News HereGet Moon or Bust Crypto Merch HereJoin the Telegram:https://t.me/moonorbustBZfor 25% of Moon or Bust Podcast swag.Claim 1000 ZING airdrop: https://www.benzinga.com/zing

Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/moon-or-bust/donations

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Subscribe to ourBenzinga Crypto Youtube Channel

Episode Summary:

Market UpdateCo-Founder of Holochain Arthur BrockMoon or Bust - To Play Moon or Bust go to https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrency

For video and charts of this podcast please visit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INjD-A2ruso

Meet The Hosts:

Logan Ross

Blockchain Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain | Crypto investor and educator since 2016

https://twitter.com/logannross

Ryan McNamara

Bought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | Liquidated on ByBit | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2016 (sorry planet Earth) | $UNI Bag Holder

https://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamara

Disclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.

Check Out Other Benzinga Podcasts Here:Check Out All Benzinga Crypto News HereGet Moon or Bust Crypto Merch HereJoin the Telegram:https://t.me/moonorbustBZfor 25% of Moon or Bust Podcast swag.Claim 1000 ZING airdrop: https://www.benzinga.com/zing

Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/moon-or-bust/donations

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Subscribe to ourBenzinga Crypto Youtube Channel

Episode Summary:

Market UpdateBrantly.eth On Digital IdentityCo-founder of The Ethereum Name Service ($ENS)Moon or Bust - To Play Moon or Bust go to https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrency

For video and charts of this podcast please visit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INjD-A2ruso

Meet The Hosts:

Logan Ross

Blockchain Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain | Crypto investor and educator since 2016

https://twitter.com/logannross

Ryan McNamara

Bought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | Liquidated on ByBit | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2016 (sorry planet Earth) | $UNI Bag Holder

https://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamara

Disclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.

Check Out Other Benzinga Podcasts Here:Check Out All Benzinga Crypto News HereGet Moon or Bust Crypto Merch HereJoin the Telegram:https://t.me/moonorbustBZfor 25% of Moon or Bust Podcast swag.Claim 1000 ZING airdrop: https://www.benzinga.com/zing

Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/moon-or-bust/donations

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Subscribe to ourBenzinga Crypto Youtube Channel

Episode Summary:

Market Update$OGN Protocol’s New NFT PlatformMoon or Bust - To Play Moon or Bust go to https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrency

For video and charts of this podcast please visit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INjD-A2ruso

Meet The Hosts:

Logan Ross

Blockchain Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain | Crypto investor and educator since 2016

https://twitter.com/logannross

Ryan McNamara

Bought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | Liquidated on ByBit | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2016 (sorry planet Earth) | $UNI Bag Holder

https://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamara

Disclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.

Check Out Other Benzinga Podcasts Here:Check Out All Benzinga Crypto News HereGet Moon or Bust Crypto Merch HereJoin the Telegram:https://t.me/moonorbustBZfor 25% of Moon or Bust Podcast swag.Claim 1000 ZING airdrop: https://www.benzinga.com/zing

Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/moon-or-bust/donations

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Subscribe to ourBenzinga Crypto Youtube Channel

Episode Summary:

Market UpdateWhat Are Security Tokens?Moon or Bust - To Play Moon or Bust go to https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrency

For video and charts of this podcast please visit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INjD-A2ruso

Meet The Hosts:

Logan Ross

Blockchain Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain | Crypto investor and educator since 2016

https://twitter.com/logannross

Ryan McNamara

Bought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | Liquidated on ByBit | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2016 (sorry planet Earth) | $UNI Bag Holder

https://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamara

Disclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.

Check Out Other Benzinga Podcasts Here:Check Out All Benzinga Crypto News HereGet Moon or Bust Crypto Merch HereJoin the Telegram:https://t.me/moonorbustBZfor 25% of Moon or Bust Podcast swag.Claim 1000 ZING airdrop: https://www.benzinga.com/zing

Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/moon-or-bust/donations

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Subscribe to ourBenzinga Crypto Youtube Channel

Episode Summary:

Market UpdateCrypto Market CrashMoon or Bust - To Play Moon or Bust go to https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrency

For video and charts of this podcast please visit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INjD-A2ruso

Meet The Hosts:

Logan Ross

Blockchain Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain | Crypto investor and educator since 2016

https://twitter.com/logannross

Ryan McNamara

Bought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | Liquidated on ByBit | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2016 (sorry planet Earth) | $UNI Bag Holder

https://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamara

Disclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.

Check Out Other Benzinga Podcasts Here:Check Out All Benzinga Crypto News HereGet Moon or Bust Crypto Merch HereJoin the Telegram:https://t.me/moonorbustBZfor 25% of Moon or Bust Podcast swag.Claim 1000 ZING airdrop: https://www.benzinga.com/zing

Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/moon-or-bust/donations

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Subscribe to ourBenzinga Crypto Youtube Channel

Episode Summary:

Market UpdateStar Atlas CEO Interview Moon or Bust - To Play Moon or Bust go to https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrency

For video and charts of this podcast please visit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INjD-A2ruso

Meet The Hosts:

Logan Ross

Blockchain Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain | Crypto investor and educator since 2016

https://twitter.com/logannross

Ryan McNamara

Bought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | Liquidated on ByBit | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2016 (sorry planet Earth) | $UNI Bag Holder

https://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamara

Disclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.

Check Out Other Benzinga Podcasts Here:Check Out All Benzinga Crypto News HereGet Moon or Bust Crypto Merch HereJoin the Telegram:https://t.me/moonorbustBZfor 25% of Moon or Bust Podcast swag.Claim 1000 ZING airdrop: https://www.benzinga.com/zing

Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/moon-or-bust/donations

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Subscribe to ourBenzinga Crypto Youtube Channel

Episode Summary:

Market UpdateMaking Money From Blockchain Games How To Get NFTs EarlyMoon or Bust - To Play Moon or Bust go to https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrency

For video and charts of this podcast please visit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INjD-A2ruso

Meet The Hosts:

Logan Ross

Blockchain Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain | Crypto investor and educator since 2016

https://twitter.com/logannross

Ryan McNamara

Bought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | Liquidated on ByBit | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2016 (sorry planet Earth) | $UNI Bag Holder

https://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamara

Disclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.

Check Out Other Benzinga Podcasts Here:Check Out All Benzinga Crypto News HereGet Moon or Bust Crypto Merch HereJoin the Telegram:https://t.me/moonorbustBZfor 25% of Moon or Bust Podcast swag.Claim 1000 ZING airdrop: https://www.benzinga.com/zing

Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/moon-or-bust/donations

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Subscribe to ourBenzinga Crypto Youtube Channel

Episode Summary:

Market UpdateUnstoppable Domains CEO InterviewMoon or Bust - To Play Moon or Bust go to https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrency

Meet The Hosts:

Logan Ross

Blockchain Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain | Crypto investor and educator since 2016

https://twitter.com/logannross

Ryan McNamara

Bought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | Liquidated on ByBit | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2016 (sorry planet Earth) | $UNI Bag Holder

https://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamara

Disclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.

Check Out Other Benzinga Podcasts Here:Check Out All Benzinga Crypto News HereGet Moon or Bust Crypto Merch HereJoin the Telegram:https://t.me/moonorbustBZfor 25% of Moon or Bust Podcast swag.Claim 1000 ZING airdrop: https://www.benzinga.com/zing

Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/moon-or-bust/donations

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Subscribe to ourBenzinga Crypto Youtube Channel

Episode Summary:

Market UpdateAirdropped CoinsNFT UpdateMoon or Bust - To Play Moon or Bust go to https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrency

Meet The Hosts:

Logan Ross

Blockchain Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain | Crypto investor and educator since 2016

https://twitter.com/logannross

Ryan McNamara

Bought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | Liquidated on ByBit | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2016 (sorry planet Earth) | $UNI Bag Holder

https://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamara

Disclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.

Check Out Other Benzinga Podcasts Here:Check Out All Benzinga Crypto News HereGet Moon or Bust Crypto Merch HereJoin the Telegram:https://t.me/moonorbustBZfor 25% of Moon or Bust Podcast swag.Claim 1000 ZING airdrop: https://www.benzinga.com/zing

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Episode Summary:

Santa Rally This Week?LoanSnap’s Karl Jacob InterviewMarket UpdateMoon or Bust - To Play Moon or Bust go to https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrency

Meet The Hosts:

Logan Ross

Blockchain Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain | Crypto investor and educator since 2016

https://twitter.com/logannross

Ryan McNamara

Bought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | Liquidated on ByBit | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2016 (sorry planet Earth) | $UNI Bag Holder

https://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamara

Disclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.

Check Out Other Benzinga Podcasts Here:Check Out All Benzinga Crypto News HereGet Moon or Bust Crypto Merch HereJoin the Telegram:https://t.me/moonorbustBZfor 25% of Moon or Bust Podcast swag.Claim 1000 ZING airdrop: https://www.benzinga.com/zing

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Episode Summary:

Airbnb on The Blockchain:dTravel InterviewAdidas NFT Mint TodayMarket UpdateMoon or Bust - To Play Moon or Bust go to https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrency

Meet The Hosts:

Logan Ross

Blockchain Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain | Crypto investor and educator since 2016

https://twitter.com/logannross

Ryan McNamara

Bought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | Liquidated on ByBit | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2016 (sorry planet Earth) | $UNI Bag Holder

https://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamara

Disclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.

Check Out Other Benzinga Podcasts Here:Check Out All Benzinga Crypto News HereGet Moon or Bust Crypto Merch HereJoin the Telegram:https://t.me/moonorbustBZfor 25% of Moon or Bust Podcast swag.Claim 1000 ZING airdrop: https://www.benzinga.com/zing

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Subscribe to ourBenzinga Crypto Youtube Channel

Episode Summary:

Metaverse Real EstateSandbox vs. DecentralandMarket UpdateMoon or Bust - To Play Moon or Bust go to https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrency

Meet The Hosts:

Logan Ross

Blockchain Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain | Crypto investor and educator since 2016

https://twitter.com/logannross

Ryan McNamara

Bought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | Liquidated on ByBit | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2016 (sorry planet Earth) | $UNI Bag Holder

https://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamara

Disclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.

Check Out Other Benzinga Podcasts Here:Check Out All Benzinga Crypto News HereGet Moon or Bust Crypto Merch HereJoin the Telegram:https://t.me/moonorbustBZfor 25% of Moon or Bust Podcast swag.Claim 1000 ZING airdrop: https://www.benzinga.com/zing

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Subscribe to ourBenzinga Crypto Youtube Channel

Episode Summary:

Interview With LoanSnapMarket UpdateMoon or Bust - To Play Moon or Bust go to https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrency

Follow LoanSnap:https://twitter.com/LoanSnap

Checkout LoanSnap:https://www.goloansnap.com/

Meet The Hosts:

Logan Ross

Blockchain Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain | Crypto investor and educator since 2016

https://twitter.com/logannross

Ryan McNamara

Bought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | Liquidated on ByBit | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2016 (sorry planet Earth) | $UNI Bag Holder

https://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamara

Disclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.

Check Out Other Benzinga Podcasts Here:Check Out All Benzinga Crypto News HereGet Moon or Bust Crypto Merch HereJoin the Telegram:https://t.me/moonorbustBZfor 25% of Moon or Bust Podcast swag.Claim 1000 ZING airdrop: https://www.benzinga.com/zing

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Subscribe to ourBenzinga Crypto Youtube Channel

Episode Summary:

Brave BrowserCrypto CrashMarket UpdateMoon or Bust - To Play Moon or Bust go to https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrency

Meet The Hosts:

Logan Ross

Blockchain Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain | Crypto investor and educator since 2016

https://twitter.com/logannross

Ryan McNamara

Bought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | Liquidated on ByBit | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2016 (sorry planet Earth) | $UNI Bag Holder

https://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamara

Disclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.

Check Out Other Benzinga Podcasts Here:Check Out All Benzinga Crypto News HereGet Moon or Bust Crypto Merch HereJoin the Telegram:https://t.me/moonorbustBZfor 25% of Moon or Bust Podcast swag.Claim 1000 ZING airdrop: https://www.benzinga.com/zing

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Subscribe to ourBenzinga Crypto Youtube Channel

Episode Summary:

Breaking Into Crypto Feat. Mike DemarisRainbow Wallet, Unisocks, and DeFi UXMarket UpdateMoon or Bust - To Play Moon or Bust go to https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrency

Guests:

Today's guest: Mike Demarais

https://twitter.com/mikedemarais

Meet The Hosts:

Logan Ross

Blockchain Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain | Crypto investor and educator since 2016

https://twitter.com/logannross

Ryan McNamara

Bought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | Liquidated on ByBit | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2016 (sorry planet Earth) | $UNI Bag Holder

https://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamara

Disclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.

Check Out Other Benzinga Podcasts Here:Check Out All Benzinga Crypto News HereGet Moon or Bust Crypto Merch HereJoin the Telegram:https://t.me/moonorbustBZfor 25% of Moon or Bust Podcast swag.Claim 1000 ZING airdrop: https://www.benzinga.com/zing

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Subscribe to ourBenzinga Crypto Youtube Channel

Episode Summary:

TWTR CEO good for ETHProof of Beauty NFT projectMarket UpdateMoon or Bust - To Play Moon or Bust go to https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrency

Meet The Hosts:

Logan Ross

Blockchain Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain | Crypto investor and educator since 2016

https://twitter.com/logannross

Ryan McNamara

Bought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | Liquidated on ByBit | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2016 (sorry planet Earth) | $UNI Bag Holder

https://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamara

Disclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.

Check Out Other Benzinga Podcasts Here:Check Out All Benzinga Crypto News HereGet Moon or Bust Crypto Merch HereJoin the Telegram:https://t.me/moonorbustBZfor 25% of Moon or Bust Podcast swag.Claim 1000 ZING airdrop: https://www.benzinga.com/zing

Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/moon-or-bust/donations

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Subscribe to ourBenzinga Crypto Youtube Channel

Episode Summary:

ETH vs. AVAXA Conversation with CryptoPunk#5273Market UpdateMoon or Bust - To Play Moon or Bust go to https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrency

Meet The Hosts:

Logan Ross

Blockchain Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain | Crypto investor and educator since 2016

https://twitter.com/logannross

Ryan McNamara

Bought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | Liquidated on ByBit | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2016 (sorry planet Earth) | $UNI Bag Holder

https://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamara

Disclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.

Check Out Other Benzinga Podcasts Here:Check Out All Benzinga Crypto News HereGet Moon or Bust Crypto Merch HereJoin the Telegram:https://t.me/moonorbustBZfor 25% of Moon or Bust Podcast swag.Claim 1000 ZING airdrop: https://www.benzinga.com/zing

Unedited Transcript:

Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/moon-or-bust/donations

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Subscribe to ourBenzinga Crypto Youtube Channel

Episode Summary:

ConstitutionDAOBored Apes Got InterestingMarket UpdateAva Labs InterviewMoon or Bust - To Play Moon or Bust go to https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrency

Meet The Hosts:

Logan Ross

Blockchain Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain | Crypto investor and educator since 2016

https://twitter.com/logannross

Ryan McNamara

Bought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | Liquidated on ByBit | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2016 (sorry planet Earth) | $UNI Bag Holder

https://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamara

Disclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.

Check Out Other Benzinga Podcasts Here:Check Out All Benzinga Crypto News HereGet Moon or Bust Crypto Merch HereJoin the Telegram:https://t.me/moonorbustBZfor 25% of Moon or Bust Podcast swag.Claim 1000 ZING airdrop: https://www.benzinga.com/zing

Unedited Transcript:

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Episode Summary:

Chintai x Chimera Wealth InterviewMoon or Bust - To Play Moon or Bust go to https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrency

Guests:

-Chintai is a Singapore-based company with offices in Germany that uses blockchain technology to modernize capital markets for asset managers, banks, and enterprises.

-Chimera Wealth is a registered investment advisory (RIA) firm focused on empowering clients to enjoy their lives today while designing their tomorrow.

Meet The Hosts:

Logan Ross

Blockchain Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain | Crypto investor and educator since 2016

https://twitter.com/logannross

Ryan McNamara

Bought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | Liquidated on ByBit | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2016 (sorry planet Earth) | $UNI Bag Holder

https://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamara

Disclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.

Check Out Other Benzinga Podcasts Here:Check Out All Benzinga Crypto News HereGet Moon or Bust Crypto Merch HereJoin the Telegram:https://t.me/moonorbustBZfor 25% of Moon or Bust Podcast swag.Claim 1000 ZING airdrop: https://www.benzinga.com/zing

Unedited Transcript:

GM zinger nation. My name is Logan Ross, and I'd like to welcome you back to moon or bust your home for all things, altcoins and DFI. We've got a great show prepared for you today. Uh, but how you doing Ryan? What what's going on? Well, GM Logan happy Thursday and happy Monday to our view. Yes indeed. So before we can get started, I want to let you guys know about a couple of things we have down in the description below.

So if you're here for crypto content, uh, we have a new Benzinga crypto channel that we're building out right now. It's the top link in the description below. Uh, and so make sure you get subscribed to that. If you're new to the Benzinga channel overall, make sure you subscribe to this channel that we're on right now.

And while you're down there, take a second to smash the like button for us. Uh, Ryan, can you tell us a little about the, the Benzinga swag that we have. Yeah, we got a ton of Benzinga swag. We'd have some Mooner bus specific swag. You've probably seen Logan, or I wear that Eve hat. We have a Shiba Inu, had a Bitcoin hat.

We've got some pretty cool shirts. So definitely check that out. And if you want a discount code, join the telegram and we'll toss you 25% off. You heard it there first, uh, and on that note, make sure to connect with us on Twitter. Send us a DM. We'd love to hear from you. Um, but yeah, let's just get right into the show notes for today.

Uh, so without further ado, I would like to welcome AIJ and David to Mooner bust. How are you both doing today? Thanks for having me. Yup. Good to meet you. Yeah, pleasure is all ours. So let's just dive right into it. Um, David, you are the, the founder of the crypto project, chin tie, uh, and Asia you're coming from the investment side from Kymera wealth, uh, could starting with David, could you walk us through, you know, your background in crypto, how you found yourself, where you are.

Yeah. I mean, my background, uh, maybe isn't that uncommon, but it's certainly different from probably a lot of people who are in the crypto space right now. Um, particularly this current generation just coming in. I, uh, found my way in via a 20 year career in financial services, working for banks and asset managers.

And so I got to live through the 2008, nine financial crisis. Uh, from St seeing it from the very inside and, uh, and really got a sense of just how flawed the existing system was, um, that it really wasn't working for us generally. Um, and that, that led me to start looking in 20 15, 16 onwards to wards, uh, disruptive technologies that I could use allies to help, uh, improve prove the financial system in petite.

Um, so that, that led me down that first, uh, crypto rabbit hole. You know, I started looking at Ethereum, uh, beyond Bitcoin and getting a sense of what was possible with small contracts and, and beyond. Um, but, but really then, uh, that's what led us to, uh, creating Gentiles, which is a digital asset platform for dynamic forms of issuance and market creation.

And, and, uh, yeah, I mean, th the whole growth of the DFI sector over the last three years is a phenomenal, uh, illustration. I think of that potential. Awesome. An agent. Yeah. So I am a managing partner and chief investment officer of a registered investment advisory firm here in the United States. We're talking about my crypto expertise.

Well, I dabbled, you know, right when it became a bit popular in 2017, uh, not gotten to extensively until actually I was introduced to David and what their project is over I and tie. Uh, that's where not only for my own. Personal portfolio, but also as a firm, we've started to do well a bit more into the space, especially with clients nowadays on both sides of the spectrum, whether you have the younger generation or those who are nearing retirement, really just looking to diversify their assets and portfolios through different areas.

So, um, yeah, that's pretty much where my exposure came into this. Awesome mate, Jay, we're really happy to have both of you on here today. It's great to see both sides, uh, you know, both the builders and the investors. Uh, so we're going to get right into it. So, David, could you tell us what chin tie is from a very high.

Yeah. From, from a very high level. Um, we actually started out, I guess, in the defy space before he got called defy, um, back in, in 2017, we decided we were going to build out a full on chain, uh, order management system and an exchange, and actually try a new concept, which was trading of the utility of. Um, in this case, we started off with network capacity and, and it was a great initial use case, although it didn't last that long.

Um, but really once we actually spent all that time building that out, we started to realize the sheer amount of time and effort we'd spent issuing our own network, token, the checks. Um, uh, we, we did that post, the kind of ICO, boom, if you all recall back in 2017, and it was just around the time that the governments were starting to crack down on some of the scans that had had erupted throughout that period.

And we're starting to make noises like this is actually a security and things, and that really scared off a business and the promise of mass adoption for a couple of years, um, during that period. But nonetheless, we. Did a full issuance of the checks token, uh, during that period. And we built an exchange and we realized the entire process of doing that was incredibly complex, um, and very, very challenging for anybody else who really wanted to follow in our footsteps.

So it really, the moment you looked at every other project, though, they had a need by and large to issue some sort of. To deploy on a, on a secondary market and, uh, and have liquidity with it. And so that was the fundamental foundation, uh, underlying Gentile as a platform, which was to say we were going to provide a solution that would enable dynamic forms of issue and spit utility tokens, and NFTs write down.

Um, securities real estate. Um, so, so we've pursued licensing out of Singapore to ensure that we'll be able to, uh, do that type of thing with a fully compliant, uh, framework as well. And, uh, and that that's a fundamental differentiator too, between what we're doing at anything else in, in that everything is operating, um, on a compliance control framework so that, uh, whenever you've got an asset that's, that's red needs to be red compliant and, and handle that way.

It can have rules in place. Uh, while still interfacing, uh, long-term potentially with the defy system too. So we kind of, uh, tend to tend to describe it to two outsiders as we're building the regulatory bridge between traditional finance and defy, and we're going to enable that mass adoption curve. And so it's a, it's an exciting time because the networks, uh, about to launch next next month.

And, uh, yeah, so we're delighted to have, uh, Comera wealth on board with us. Awesome. So AIG, I know Kymera wealth has a background in real estate. Could you tell me specifically what interested you in the chin type? Yeah. So before I forget, um, and we're, we're going to get into this later on. Uh, I do need to disclose that, uh, Kymera wealth, as well as myself and the partners do have an investment in shin, Thai, uh, as backers.

So, uh, yeah, just have to disclose that out there. But yeah, what really interested us is, as I mentioned, we're coming from the traditional financial space, right? There's kind of two aspects. One of those is acting as a fiduciary for our clients, really trying to develop a portfolio that's in their best interests.

And as we're getting into this even more complex economic environment, we're having to diversify our investments, not just from the traditional stocks, bonds mutual funds, right. But also in different. Classes. And that's where the digital asset space is growing, not just in popularity, but acting as a very beneficial, uh, diversification tool, regardless of if you believe.

Bitcoin or what have you and the fundamentals of it. It is acting as a diversifier for client portfolios, and I'm not talking about going 100%. Right. Uh, you can do something as small as one or five. And then so yeah, I come here a wealth, not all the way we're doing that aspect. And that's really what attracted us to, uh, what the team that shouldn't ties really do.

Providing that platform, but also the compliance and regulatory aspect. Uh, as I just mentioned earlier, right? I have to disclose that well, we're investors in shin Tai. And so our area is very heavily, regular. Especially following the global financial prices and it's for good things, it's for the protection of the investors.

And so that's really what attracted us is. We're seeing a lot of these projects out there and the digital asset and the crypto space, you know, initial issuance and such, but nothing really. That's kind of providing that regulatory or compliance framework and all that. David of course, top more in depth. I don't want to steal any thunder from him, but.

Uh, that's one component. And then the other side is yes. What we're working on on a private funding side. I can't give too much information, uh, but we do have some expertise in the real estate as well. Some of the venture capital area. So really partnering machine tie on providing that, uh, through this new asset class digital assets versus doing the traditional route of either bringing up a venture capital firm and only being able to.

Give that exposure to accredited investors and more towards the retail investor, right. The general population. And again, everything we want to do is in a compliant regulatory mindset. So having project like shin type to partner with is just perfect for us. Aja. I'm curious to know, did you receive any pushback from your big investors, uh, for moving into the crypto space where any of them kind of spooked by it?

Uh, and if so, how did you handle that? How did you explain it and did they come up. Yeah. So right now we haven't really gotten much pushback. Uh, I will say there are some clients that we have that, uh, it is a new space to them and really what we try to do. And this is an all aspects of how we deal with clients is really focused on the educational aspect.

Right. What I've found is most. Portion is just the financial literacy, whether you're talking about crypto or anything, stocks, bonds, and it's really our job to educate our clients that, Hey, this is a digital assets, uh, that we're really looking into, whether it's Bitcoin, Ethereum, a platform like shin tie or something that we're trying to privately issue.

Once you educate the client from my experience, it's a lot easier to get them to jump on board versus just saying, Hey, there's this hot trending? Token that's out there. I want to invest 10%. Right. Um, so that's really where we focus and we don't really typically get much pushback once we educate those clients on just informing them.

It's great to hear. So, David, my next question is for you, which blockchain does chin use and what does your multi chain architecture look like? Ooh, what a technical question. I mean, before that, I have to say again, I'm somewhat sheltered and being, pushing your clients into.

No, I wouldn't do that. No, no. I would say that might be wise from a long-term hold perspective, but who knows? So yeah, the underlying protocol. Um, so, um, one of the other lead investors in the round for us was Dijuan. The role team known for launching the ESI protocol. Um, however, um, we, we select start because it's highly scalable and configurable.

Um, and although it's had a bit of an interesting, uh, I think period over the last two and a half years, uh, since the original, uh, wider public blockchain was launched, uh, it's actually been very well maintained during that period. And it's is, I think there's some encouraging signs in that wider ecosystem, but.

What I generally look at now is what is the underlying linkage potential to multiple other protocols? And that's just a general demand. That's coming from all clients that we were talking to you. Now, they want to be able to have that flexibility to lest on the very best protocols and in the, in the best potential markets, or they want to be highly selective, maybe about what they do as well.

So, as an example, if you were to spend all the time going through an issuing a security token and putting controls around the marketplace, Who's a participant and maybe you're putting in place mandatory KYC, AML anti-money laundering checks in there as well. And so on and so forth. Uh, you defeat the whole purpose.

If you just decide you're going to go and list it on unit swap, for example, because at that moment you get the, the, the, one of the great aspects of defy, which is that it's decentralized in censorship resistant. But the problem with that too, is that at that point, frankly, you know, your securities could be going off and being used for money laundering or being sold.

You know, a country where somebody maybe is blacklisted elsewhere out of the business environment, because. The links to terrorism or something. So from an issuer point of view, this is where the they're more interested in other compliance solutions too, and saying it will be great to have options to connect in.

And so the good news there for us is that we've got a really strong partner. Um, the announcement will be going out soon. Which provides us conductivity full conductivity to about 30 different other blockchain protocols. And I think that's broadly the future that we're going to see, which reminds everybody.

I think, of the whole, uh, you know, underlying protocols of the internet itself, which is no one really. What's some of the technical connectivity issues are, you know, w w we're talking right now across this, and I know it's very easy to get really passionate about some of the blockchain protocols, the layer one stuff, but actually they can intercommunicate increasingly well, and, and I think from an end user perspective, you can imagine log-ins, you're on the line of account.

You see, you're asking. The fact that you might then go and choose to trade a sale on one exchange or another. And under the surface, it's actually transferring between those chains as part of that process really shouldn't matter to you. And that's broadly where we're moving towards, which is encouraging, I think.

And it's a, it's, it's an exciting, uh, component we need to needed to collect a, we get over the line for achieving mass adoption. Yeah, I think that's a good take. Do you have any plans on integrating with Ethereum in the future? Uh, yes, we're, we're already able to connect to it. Um, so for example, uh, the checks token, uh, network token, uh, we had to be.

Limited by the initial listings. Uh, we are about to push a hat with listings or a number of, uh, Ethereum based, uh, exchanges. And, uh, and it's such a rich ecosystem that even though it has obviously some evident flaws, people talk about like the gas fee issue and so on. It's it's got an incredible number of talented developers in that pushing out some really innovative models, uh, related to everything from, you know, insurance to lending.

And I think it's that type of innovation, which is fantastic for the wider financial system, because it really, it gives ideas to the, the wider financial system on what's possible. Uh, even if you know, it is subsequent stage, we find that some regulatory controls maybe start to creep in from governments or, or maybe not.

Um, but, uh, yeah, I, I personally love what they've been doing over the last two years on the device space on, on the Ethereum. Totally me too, for sure. Uh, can you give us an overview of the process it takes to tokenize a real-world asset on the blockchain? Yeah, it's actually really easy. So, so from, from the perspective of actually tokenizing anything, it's a much over-hyped, uh, process in that it really is, is relatively straightforward.

So within our platform, for example, now we were on a life, uh, call, call with a client the other day where they, they set up the. Got registered and have configured in and tokenized and issued an asset within about five minutes. And it was live on the chain to their exact parameters and they were able to then deploy a secondary market and commence, active trading with other people.

Now that, that is all well and good, but the problem is if you're doing that with anything, that's actually like a, like a security, for example, with, with controls that need to be placed around that. This is where regulatory compliance and this other more complex side kicks in. And that's really where, um, I would say.

90% of the value app really kicks in because tokenization is, is inherently going to be something that we all have, uh, disposed increasingly. I mean, if you think about it with NFTs, what that's shown us is with things like open seas, anybody can issue a token, right? I mean, you guys could have, have a Benzinga token, right, right now in a variety of different forms and you could issue it out pretty fast.

Um, so the same really does apply here, but where it comes, uh, becomes really relevant. Ensuring that all the underlying controls and rules are put in place so that you can not only then say you've issued a security token, but that it actually combined and be handled in exactly the same way as the security.

And that's how we eventually moved to all of the financial system going digital, going to tokens and, uh, and all the associated benefits we'll get from that. And how does holding custody of these real world assets work? Uh, yeah, it's it. Can sorry, go on. Finish your question in the custody of the real world assets that are tokenized on the platform?

Uh, well, in, in the case of the regulatory ones, we've actually signed partnerships with several. Local and international, um, digital asset custodial solution providers. Um, again, there, there are announcements that are going to be going out very soon, um, on that side of things. However, when you get to things like utility tokens, um, we absolutely could be custodians as well.

I think it then becomes something of a network security issue generally. Um, so why should use as necessarily have to trust and throw, throw the dice with every single thing athletes are up to or particular. Uh, asset, it kind of generally makes sense that particularly when the, um, doing anything that involves cross chain, that there, that utilizing a provider who maybe has got aspects like insurance, um, and is a established player who's in type business is looking after your people, digital assets securely.

Now that doesn't mean that they couldn't still take control. You know, put them in their own wallet and maintain the key, but there are points in time where you are going to want to hand that off to somebody in a secure way and know that yes, it's moving around the underlying defy system here, but, but we're generally comfortable with it.

So where we were definitely very focused on partnering with firms of that kind of quality to ensure that our users have the maximum. Yeah, that's great to hear. It seems like custody is becoming more and more popular, which maybe the earliest adopters of crypto didn't always like, or, you know, see the need for.

But I think, you know, to get some sort of mass adoption events, Retail won't even realize they're interacting with blockchain and we'll all be taken care of for them. Uh, w which is, you know, it's good for some people in certain applications, especially when there's there's high value assets at stake. Uh, so speaking of those high value assets, can you tell us, uh, what, what is the main type of asset that, that Shantae is focused on tokenizing?

Um, and how is it bringing this type of asset to a new audience or a new market? Yeah, well, actually it's, it's entirely being client driven. So as an example, comment or wealth, um, I think, uh, agent, maybe you could speak to this, but I know, you know, for example, Definite interest in, in the fractionalization and tokenization of real estate, because it fundamentally disrupts an asset class like that and adds liquidity to, to an illiquid asset class for the first time, which is not to be underestimated, what a big deal that could be, but there's a variety of other things possible.

Um, and if you think about a firm like Kymera wealth, that's. Got back potential. It really, to some extent it's almost imagination is to, to is one of the core limits as well as what their client base might be. But I'm just broadly curious what you would say to that one in terms of what you think that the primary asset classes will be served for you over the next three years beyond real estate.

Yeah. So I mean, one of the things we've been exploring is of course, real estate, so tokenizing that aspect, and it's not just the physical real estate work, just mentioning it it's conversation, but also the forms of. Right. So if you actually look at financial markets, the bond market is a massive market.

Of course you can probably second me on this. It's it's bigger than what we have is this. So that's an area where also looking at Kymera as well. Um, whether it's into the mortgage real estate space or just in and of itself, just from my experience in my network, talking to other individuals as well, some of these businesses, uh, I think debt will probably be one option.

Ty's biggest players. Um, I know one who's doing. And I think David, I introduced them to you. I can't recall, but they're really looking at doing like a Def con reconsolidation right. And seeing if they can have somehow tokenize that there's other areas too. I think it's very interesting how innovative some of these entrepreneurs are being in regards to another one I had project I had run into is looking at doing the like solar energy credits and how that could somehow be tokenized to help incentivize individuals.

I Kymera wealth. I would say our biggest area is, as I mentioned, the real estate space, uh, that just seems to be where a lot of our clientele is kind of driving us and part of our network and in house as well as, as I mentioned, the loan space for the private debt dealing area. Yeah. And actually an interesting, uh, illustration of, of how difficult this is, is, is to predict is that I would have never predicted for example, that AF first go live market next month would be a carbon.

So, you know, I thought all expands would be real estate or it's bound to be securities or, or just the standard utility token. But no, it's actually the global carbon market is forecast, for example, to be, um, up to $50 trillion by 2050. Um, because obviously the, the, the issue related to. Um, climate change and so on.

And just the general challenges of the amount of carbon being dumped into the atmosphere is whether or not people fully agree with all of, all of that. And it's a relevant, because there's wider global consensus on the need to remove it, the statistical test written. So actually there's a huge potential that.

The global carbon market is a great example of why blockchain technology will gradually pervade and, uh, move into lots of other sectors beyond what we've seen so far, because it's a corrupt sector and the carbon credit market can be faked. And you can end up with stale credits being Retraded elsewhere, which is a great way of kind of saying, no one really can control this properly.

And it becomes somewhat meaningless. Uh, You know, your audience are gonna get it better than anybody, uh, that blockchain and be able to link some carbon directly removed and then burn those tokens. When they've actually been consumed, say by government to offset that that's a perfect use case for blockchain.

And so. If we've got that as our launch market, who knows actually what some of the other, you know, really big use cases out there will actually be. Um, I think it's, that's the exciting thing about digital assets is that it extends to really, almost anything in any way that we, we exchange value. Um, and that's, that's where it's going to be a fascinating one for us to watch how this evolves over the next one.

I want to touch on the tokenization of real estate a little bit more. How does tokenizing real estate benefit retail investors? So say one is providing greater access. Uh, so I had mentioned earlier, right? In regards to tokenizing, not just real estate, but other areas where it's only privy to, for, to give you an example, there's a.

Particular investments, basically a non-traded REIT, a real estate investment trust. Typically you have to have certain requirements that the investor meets, whether they're an accredited investor, meaning they have like a $1 million net worth or earn 200,000 a year. For the past two years, there are certain income requirements that.

So tokenizing some of these real estate's whole physical assets can provide greater access to retail investors versus, you know, other areas of the market where they weren't privy to. And that's, again, that's one of the reasons why, as I kind of hear our wealth is really interested in this area of.

Providing greater access on all these different areas, not just real estate, but those private companies who maybe want to tokenize their equity in some sort of form or fashion to give it to the people. And you're seeing that trend grow right. We have crowdfunding and stuff like that. They're even online platforms that have been doing these kinds of deals, just in a different method.

And so it's greater access for me that I would say is the biggest factor, David. I'm not sure what you would like to have. Uh, yeah, no, I think I broadly agree with everything you've said. I mean, really fundamentally to, um, tokenization of real estate. Uh, it doesn't have the potential to, to, uh, unlock access to an asset class that a huge proportion of the population right now, the, the, the younger adult population or affects will be priced out of.

We can argue whether or not it's actually a good time to do that, given that we're at cyclical, highs on everything. But, uh, outside of that, it's fundamentally. One of the few asset classes that has literally solid backing in terms of asset backing behind it. So it's fundamentally undervalued right now because of the liquidity issues and the, and the lack of access, uh, for, for many, to be able to trade in and out of it.

So for me, I just look at it as a way that, uh, people will be able to fundamentally change how they interact with real estate. They'll, there'll be. Utilize it and dip in and out of it in the same way we do it securities, um, over time. But also over time, I think it's going to disrupt how we have all the financing aspects of, of, uh, of, of real estate as well.

You know, that they'll, they'll come a time when the concept of a mortgage may end up becoming obsolete as we know it now, because there's the tokenized. I mean, if you can imagine owning a house, and this is looking ahead in the future of the potential of it, if you can tokenize it in, in sort of say a mil, a fraction of, uh, And each token, therefore is linked to one Millington of the property.

Well, the underlying market, um, would be able to effectively you, you could borrow those tokens off the market, in the form of leasing and pay the holders. The equivalent of view you, the way you pay the bank right now. And, uh, and over time you acquire through some special permissions, more and more of those tokens off the market to do eventually on the house.

If you want in such scenario. Now that's the type of mechanism that could come into play eventually as an alternative way of actually funding out something as simple as, uh, over some of these fundamental as a house. So. Um, yeah, I think it's not to be underestimated the potential of all of this. And again, it's really going to come down to a combination of the, the innovators coming out with these types of concepts and trying to deploy them.

And obviously the regulators and governments globally getting comfortable with such, such a design as well. AJ you mentioned, uh, that you suspect real estate bonds, and that may be one of Shanghai's biggest, you know, uh, platforms or applications in the future. Um, could one of you speak to, uh, you know, a little bit, little bit more detail on how this might work?

Well, I can talk about the mechanics of it. That's for sure. I mean, I definitely agree with AJS point that bonds is probably the. Biggest potential market of all digital assets. I mean, like it or not, there is a hell of a lot of debts watching around the world. And, uh, it's also fairly fundamental for the way that we, uh, we actually conduct different forms of, of, uh, commerce generally.

As well. Um, and it's actually very important. It's not always about a thing. So as an example, um, there are ways that if you, if you're a company, for example, you don't want to necessarily sell equity in your company, just because you need to access to investment capital, the idea that you could far more cheaply access and issue your own kind of corporate bond to, uh, to token holders, uh, backed by, you know, various fundamentals that you've provided related to cash flow and so on, and then pay them off over two or three.

And access that farm in a way that currently most small companies are priced out of as is the type of thing that's possible. I mean, even some, just a single use case like that is a huge deal. And, uh, so I do think that broadly it's going to be a big one, but as to how it mechanically works well, it's programmatically, not that dissimilar to the underlying permissions you have with things like a security, it's just the.

Whereas with a security, you might have things like voting rights and dividends and that type of permissioning built in and actions. Uh, with bonds, you just have bond blind ones instead. So you have coupon payments and you have the underlying dates related to them and you'll have certain default criteria.

And what typically can happen, um, in, in a variety of other scenarios. They just get programmed in and then they get handled. Um, and of course, if it's a digital bond, well then you're logically also going to have to apply a different set of compliant compliance rules as well. So they'll have to be in coded and built around that to ensure that the, the market operates in it in a legitimate manner too.

But, um, yeah, other than that, it really is just one of another multitude of new digital asset classes. I think we're going to see in the, in the coming two or three. Yeah. The point you make about kind of requiring reporting of, of, uh, financial data and, you know, kind of putting on chain, the risk that's associated with certain bonds, I think is really interesting.

Um, I I'm by no means an expert in the real estate sector. But like, I know that that's one of the big things that led to the financial crisis of 2007, 2008, was that the, the, the debt ratings or like the risk ratings on these bonds, uh, were completely fraudulent. And, you know, synthetic bonds were created with, with just like never-ending leverage and, and an entire market was made out of basically thin air.

Right. Um, so. I see the huge need for this, uh, product and the service that you guys are providing with, with the regulation as well. Um, so maybe we could touch a little bit on the regulatory, uh, you know, position we find ourselves in, uh, across the world than in the us specifically. Um, what type of measures are you guys, you know, proactively taking to avoid security issues in the future?

Well, certainly speaking from perspective because compliance is one of the biggest areas we're focused on. Uh, it's kind of not a problem. Uh, how, however insane and restrictive a set of regulations may be passed by any given, uh, government gloves, but really there's still a set of rules that we can encode and feed into the rules engine, the compliance engine and enforce.

For example, at the most extreme level, we can enforce China's current rules on crypto, which is a complete ban and just simply block them from any utilization because you put mandatory KYC around the regulated markets. Right? And so there's a degree of that. That's not to say obviously, breaches couldn't take place, but you can do that now.

Um, it, it, it depends really in terms of how complex and difficult the system maintain on how frequently they change the underlying rules. Um, Typically regulators publish them out in a consultation period and make updates. And they don't tend to rock the boat and change rules too dramatically, too fast because they need time to see how they're going to play out.

And in terms of whether the intent behind the rule is actually what ends up playing out or not. Um, and just generally the way most regulators operate globally is, is through a kind of consultation. Um, a process with the underlying industry that they're operating and regulating. So, um, the, the, the, um, uh, a jurisdiction like Singapore is, is very, very high quality.

I would argue it's, it's comparable with London and New York as a financial center. And it's really, I think, set itself now as the premier, uh, APAC, uh, financial hub for me, which is why we selected it as our HQ. They've also got an, a regulator that's treading an interesting line between trying to ensure that everything's done the right way, but still trying not to stifle innovation and therefore pass rules that enable that too.

So from that perspective, um, you know, I find regulators like that very easy to work with. We can encode their rules and give them guidance. And feedback and help shape that process. I think when you get to the U S it's a slightly different case because the U S is it's got a lot of conflicting different perspectives, and obviously it's kind of federal too.

So it's got different states with different perspectives as well. Um, That makes it more challenging from, from an operational perspective, I think. And, uh, you know, I, I would hope that the U S will gradually get to a point where it has a cohesive set of rules that, that everybody can understand that if you're like a level playing field, even if it's not the absolute best.

Um, because right now, I think it's generally very challenging for a lot of the digital asset firms in the U S to, uh, to be able to not just meet every role, but, but also be able to be as competitive as some who are based on. Totally. And we saw that the sec went after, you know, swap for supporting tokenized stocks earlier this year.

Do you guys have any plans on tokenizing stocks as well? Or are you going to stay away from that? I mean, it's not on our roadmap right now. Um, but there is absolutely nothing to stop. Um, you know, an existing exchange for example, but may, maybe does do all that as part of its business, um, leveraging our platform to deploy out a digital version of.

Now, in fact, we, we certainly could in theory, do that, I suppose. Uh, I don't get that excited by the idea of tokenizing stock generally, because it's already fairly liquid, it's accessible and relatively cheap. I mean, you just need to look at the size of the equities market. And the average retail investor is in an able to trade in it almost as they ought to be more easily than they are with, with crypto right now.

So from that perspective, I think you have to ask the question, well, why generally have certain. Stop tokens appeared as a, as a concept or one is to kind of prove that you don't just have to tie something like a stable coin to the U S dollar. For example, you actually can tie it to something as dynamic as a security.

Um, but broadly is one. I do think that there is ideologically a very big group in the, in the crypto area who are generally, um, determined to try and completely upend and replace the financial system from the inside out. And. They are awesome in, in many ways, in terms of what they're looking to do, that the challenge with something like that is that if you just go out and flagrantly, ignore the regulators and just say, we're going to do that.

And we're going to have no controls in place. No KYC, no transaction monitoring, no anti money laundering controls. Eventually they, you know, you can imagine a scenario where they turn around and say, well, we've analyzed all this chain activity and we can see direct flows of capital going back to . Um, and that's where, you know, the, the DFI system won't do itself any favors.

So it, you know, I think there's ideologically some issues here between, uh, the, the pragmatic side, like ourselves who want to actually, you know, enable controls and mass adoption through that, and then gradually helping influence and change the system and allowing that disruptive technology to kind of do that as well.

And then there's another group that just generally want to stick two fingers up the entire system and just deploy everything out regardless. But, yeah, I mean, you only have to look at the likes of finance for the, they actually issued stock tokens as well, and had to pull them quite rapidly to see that, you know, even an exchange like that with, with a level of parent influence, it has, was unable to withstand pressure from growth global regulators.

So I think. What we're seeing with that level of innovation and experimentation is more likely to end up being adopted and pushed out by the rest of the financial system with some appropriate controls around that. Yeah. I was certainly two camps as far as like strict centralization and strict de-centralization for a long time.

Uh, and this market cycle, we've seen a whole bunch of products pop up. They kind of embrace both sides and find some middle ground, uh, you know, with an acceptable level of decentralization for the application. So they've uh, could you talk about how decentralized exactly shouldn't have. Yeah. And, and I think we're a very good example of exactly that kind of a thing that's coming out.

So, um, on network launch, we've made a conscious decision to operate on a permission chain, which is effectively a private chain, uh, at this stage. And the reason we've done that is because there are a lot of benefits to launching a network and a project of this nature. With, with centralization. Um, so having gone from the inside, out of a network, a blockchain network launched the, went for the full decentralized option.

The problem is that decision-making is extremely challenging in those environments. And, and I would argue. Uh, decentralized governance is probably one of the big unsolved challenges for crypto over the next five years. It's something that still hasn't been necessarily mastered. We're still trying different types of governance models.

Um, but the intent certainly for, since I longer-term, that is to actually decentralize our bus network and chain and govern. Working with the underlying users and clients to find a model that works for everybody. So one example of that could be that all the largest, uh, clients become no validators on that.

And gradually, and obviously, um, take part in that or that you can end up with a proposal system related to how upgrades to the network and enhancements are made. That that becomes a vote based system. I mean, these, these are things that we see you're already operating on on other kinds of downtime structures.

But that's that's, you know, certainly the longer-term vision, there will be a de-centralization of the network, um, fundamentally over time, but it needs to be done in a way that also the regulators generally are happy with it as well. Um, so for them, they may want to say, well, if you're going to wish you and, and do all of these regulated products, we still need to have some central point where we can effectively say you're accountable.

And therefore, you know, we know who we're talking to because one of the big problems with dowels in general, Yeah. People then resigned from the whistle positions and no one's clear who, who actually runs it. And people have a habit thinking that means they're no longer, there's no liability risk. But of course, what actually happens is that the regulators can just go after anybody.

Who's a public figure for that network could be the, the validators. It could be the, the governance people, or it could be the developers. And as soon as they apply pressure at that level, you, you realize that actually decentralization as a concept. Quite malleable. And once, uh, once all authorities put a degree of pressure on you, you can see these things actually.

I'm not, not proving to be quite as resistant as perhaps when we first thought, do you think that this level of regulation is bad for innovation or causes capital flight? Uh, yeah. I mean, I definitely think that, uh, the smartest thing that broadly governments could do with the defensive. Um, it's only cracked down on, on areas where they can see absolute flagrant examples, um, that are, that are having a negative impact.

So an example of that, they cracked down on the ICO. Boom. Now it was innovative, but with zero controls in place, we saw massive. People being ripped off access scams. We saw wine, we needed some, some rules in place to, to keep it open and honest. So that's an example that where I think fine, but, uh, when you're getting experimental token models, uh, trying out a variety of different things and the, the pace of innovation, if anything is accelerating to me, it's, it's not healthy to try and impose rules on something.

Moving that fast. It's actually more interesting and probably wiser generally to step back and let it evolve. For say another couple of years. And then one, as it looks to be starting to mature and maybe problems that are more clearly identified, then you can start to actually put in place controls. Um, I do think that generally, if you over-regulate, you end up stifling innovation and so.

I, I very much hope that the more light touch approach generally with regards to digital asset rent regulation is something that regulators globally continue to push for. And I think in many cases they are, but, uh, you do get some who, for example, can't even do something as basic as differentiate between a utility token and a security token.

And when we're not doing that fast, a good adoptive stifling innovation couldn't agree more. Ryan. I think you have the next question here. Oh yeah. So how does single-sided liquidity provision work? Because it's, double-sided on stuff like unit swap, right? You're providing two assets with single sided.

You're just providing one, correct? That's absolutely correct. Yeah. Um, so it's been, uh, something of a holy grail for a long time and different types of groups that have come from. Approaches to try and remove this concept of impermanent loss. So for those not familiar, when you act as a liquidity provider on something like Eunice, SWAT, you inject liquidity on both sides of the pool.

So it could be, you know, let's say Bitcoin on one side and the, the uni token that it's paired to on the other side. Now the problem with that is as inherently, whichever way the market moves. Whether it goes one way or the other, you, you then suffer something called in permanent loss and it's, um, it's something that only then gets realized when you take you up a seat back end of the market, but you can end up in that loser to quite substantial amounts, um, in terms of what you end up getting.

Without going into specifics as to why. And therefore, the only way that, that, that, that is generally handled is by paying very high amounts of the liquidity providers, which actually makes liquidity provision more expensive than it needs to be. Um, if you look at ways around this one example is insurance whereby um, collective groups will provide a degree of, uh, that they will take the impermanent loss when realized, but they will, um, broadly give you coverage for a certain.

So that you, you've got a degree of certainty, you'll get back what you are that you're, you're going to accept that there's an inherent cost to that as well. Um, that is okay. But actual one side of the Quincy is possible. If you actually create an underlying, uh, automated market-making algorithm that can happen.

Um, I won't go to the specifics of it, but we patented a, um, a mathematical algorithm we developed in house on that front. Um, and it checks out and broadly what that means is it introduces two concepts or, um, impermanent loss still exists as a possibility for LPs, but so there's a concept called impermanent game.

And you can therefore, as a liquidity provider, Choose whether or not you could lock in an impermanent game and actually realize a gain or simply a loss, uh, and they will, they will do so in response to market conditions and, uh, things like the underlying rates being provided well, PS, um, it's going to add some interesting dynamics to that, but what that fundamentally means from a, you know, the perspective of define, for example, is that provided we get full interfacing.

With our regulatory markets to define the future as well, which is that the long-term goal you'd be able to onboard your, your. Collateral from somewhere else in the defy system, the same way we move it around right now, you build to then inject liquidity into just one side of the protocol and you build to get that amount back out again as well, but you'd be able to effectively, you know, um, access additional yields, but what they should do, uh, is also broadly, uh, reduce the fees that actually, uh, LPs need to be paid because they're not taking as much risk anymore.

Interesting. So this, uh, impermanent gain, it does not come from the. No, it comes from the movements of the, of the, of the market in the same way as impermanent loss does. So, um, you've got a given exchange rate, let's say between, uh, Bitcoin and the checks like an athlete, and then checks appreciates by a certain amount versus Bitcoin.

And at that point, when you, you, as the LP, Um, so, so you've gone on the, uh, on the check side, you suffer or you, you get you, uh, having permanent game. If you've gone on the Bitcoin side, you'd, you'd have some internet loss in that example without the balance. Um, but likewise, it, it provides you with a way of actually making a decision as to whether or not you think that that movement in the market is law short term.

And you can effectively as a, an LP participate in the market by making those decisions yourself and saying, I'm going to. Uh, our exposure, um, as a liquidity provider here, because I think actually this is just a short-term spike. So we're locking the impermanent, uh, gain hit, and then we'll, we'll actually inject more liquidity back then when we feel it's reached a more balanced level again.

So these are interesting dynamics or what it will require instead is for higher rates to be paid, to maintain the depth of the pool. Now, uh, we're going to be quite interested to see how some of these dynamics play out, but, um, broadly it's, it's definitely uncharted territory in terms of. Uh, this is going to walk right across the market.

Yeah, most definitely. And I don't want to dwell on this for too long, but I know this is a complicated topic. So I'd like to show a quick example on unit swap. So this is an LP position that I have, it's represented by an NFT, and you can see as providing liquidity between the east and Manoj pair, uh, of which my Manor was drained as it took off against Eve.

Uh, and so I may have made $300 from fees, but I definitely lost money and missing out on all of the gains that men have made in the media. Um, yeah. So that is the kind of impermanent loss that we're referring to here. Yeah. That's a good example of, uh, well that one's also partly opportunity costs. So. It could be just even if you ignored, um, something like staking rewards and the fee side of things.

If, if you get a movement in that market and then took it back out, you might end up with less money than you put in, in that scenario, for example. And that's another side to impermanent loss. Um, that is yeah. Generally going to be, you know, an interesting one. I think it's quite a complex area that the average defy user generally struggles to fully understand.

And, uh, that in itself is kind of unhelpful because what people really want is a degree of certainty. They want to know that I'm putting in I'm contributing, say liquidity services, and therefore I'm going to get reasonably well paid for it. And I have some high degree of certainty as to what I'm going to get paid for it.

They don't really want to sit there and go might work out really well. It could be a complete disaster for me. That's never really a, you know, a helpful model. And that's, I think, again, it shows points to the innovation of defy, but also the continued innovation as we're stopping. Try out different, uh, configurations that could enhance that further.

Most definitely. So, uh, one of the big arguments I see long-term for the success of crypto and tokenization is purely for the sake of capital efficiencies alone. So could you talk about how you're able to reduce overhead by over 50% through digital asset issuance? Yeah, I mean, this, this is, um, I think reasonably well understood by a lot of the, uh, the defy community, but maybe not.

Um, as somebody who's a more casual crypto user, who's, who's just dabbling. The different token markets, they probably don't fully appreciate the efficiency gains that come from blockchain generally. Um, because they, they won't necessarily understand the existing structure of the, the, uh, the current financial system.

So if you think about every different, um, asset manager and bank global, To varying degrees, they are going to be operating their own internal systems. They're going to have their own, uh, teams that, that carry out different forms of, uh, checks. And they're going to have to reconcile that with anybody that they, who was a counterparty that they tried with on the markets, or if they're going through a broker, they're still going to have to go through that same underlying process.

So if you, if you think about what that sucks up in terms of time, energy jobs, resources, It's actually astronomical. I mean, we're talking hundreds of thousands, probably millions of white collar jobs, which are means people earning well over a hundred thousand dollars a year. And their job is to check data and to make up for the inefficiencies of the fact that we're all sitting around with lots of different computer systems, arguing over what the positions are on databases that can be corrupted and not reflect properly.

Now, you know, a distributed database, I a block. That sits in the central event, on my process, dramatically lows, all of those costs and adds massive efficiency. So really, um, the best estimates are from the likes of Accenture, um, are that between 50 and 70% of the back office, which is the side that handle all of these reconciliation of positions and settlement can be completely removed out of the global financial system by, uh, embracing blockchain.

So that is probably why we're also seeing some. Substantial, um, adoption, uh, and the interest in adoption amongst financial institutions, even though they're not participating with us yet in the don't defy side, they can see the underlying potential for them just to shoo this into their existing, um, structures in a, in a more efficient way.

Yeah. And I can second that just coming from a financial services firm, right. We have to do audits third party audits. And the maternal or the partners, and I do the accounting. So having this kind of platform where it'll speed up the process, not only saved time and hours with what we prepare ourselves or an associate, but also just having a trusted, full blockchain in this scenario.

Sorry, one thing I was thinking that there is an interesting, other perspective on this, which from a regulator perspective too, they don't really know what the hell is going on in the financial system. So they're relying on people sending them reports and, and, you know, data dumps of their positions. And then they sort of retroactively may analyze it, or may not.

If you think about a blockchain though, where they have site permissioned access and can see. And it's the central golden source of truth throughout the trade life cycle for a given market. It gives them a very powerful position because they can get instant preemptive reporting. They can keep a very close eye on things and they don't need to go back.

And I'll say AGA and Carnera wealth to send things through. They can just generate it themselves and look at it themselves too. And that I think is a fundamental change in how regulators are gonna be able to, um, interact in, in the system. So on a kind of related tangent, we see these automations in blockchain, these automations in AI machine learning self-driving cars self-driving or not self-driving, but you know, you see these checkout kiosks at McDonald's there's no longer like the people needed a and the greater trend towards automation.

Uh, a lot of people think that this presents, uh, an issue. Um, but there's also the counter. That there may be metaverse jobs opening up to replace these. And I've heard people like Gary V say the potentially long-term, uh, there could be more jobs in the metaverse than in the real world. Do you guys see this as a possible outcome?

What do you think? I mean, if time has shown us anything, I think when we have innovative technology, Right. It's really just coming down to adoption. Right? As we have things that are automating, that take a factories right now, we're training those who had those industrial jobs into other aspects of our society.

Whether it's going to be metaverse is going to take place more than the physical that I don't know, maybe David, you can provide some clarity there, but I think in the long run it all, just come to where we adopt as a system. Yeah. I mean, my perspective on it broadly is that nothing that Facebook now called Matta, that what they presented was original, um, or hasn't already been largely put together in different forms by the VR community already, um, on a, on a variety of levels.

So even the concept of LFTs, although are tokenization digital assets of existing. In gaming environments, um, with some quite high value secondary markets for a long time, as well, as well as skins and other things like that. Now, um, the, the, the question is how can it actually fundamentally disrupt how we, we engage with each other, particularly in a remote world, you know?

Um, and, and I'm definitely bought into that idea. We could, you know, my team is, is located primarily in Germany and Singapore, and I'm on the east coast of the U S the idea that I can actually sit in a virtual office space with them for meetings, where we actually feel like we're, we're in the presence of one another and just engage in a much more, uh, dynamic way than we are right now with four squares on, on a, on a little screen staring at it.

Um, that definitely appeals to me. And I think it will appeal to a lot of other. And probably the way therefore the will be able to interact, not just in business, but other forms of, uh, um, sports and other things too. It could feed into those two for sure. And certainly gaming is a given. Um, so I think that personally, therefore it will overtake the real world from a commerce perspective, undoubtedly, um, because you'll be able to do things more efficient.

In that environment too, you won't be constrained by physics and other aspects of it. Um, and, and therefore, I think we will see a point where people prefer doing business in, in that metaverse concept. Um, but the real world is not going to lose its place. Right. I mean, we're, we're still gonna want to get out and walk on the beach and get fresh air and need to look out for our health and sunshine.

And frankly, No, no, no. My back a few beers, virtual beer doesn't sound as good to me as real. So, you know, I think that you, people have to be realistic about this. There has to be, uh, you know, just like we say, there has to be work life balance that will have to be met a real real-world balance. I think, uh, in that, in that future too.

And people will realize that it's not healthy to just sit there and one is in front of a screen all day. Um, but yeah, I, I think broadly it has the potential to fundamentally disrupt, um, You know, crypto itself will form the under arching backbone that enables the, of that to function. Certainly a crazy world and metaverse that we live in right now.

Um, I know that we are getting close to running out of time. Uh, so I wanna thank you, both David and AIG for stopping by today. Um, but before we wrap it up, I'd just like to give you both the chance. If there's anything else you want to mention, let the people know where to connect with you, where to follow along with, with your respective, uh, projects.

The floor is yours. Yeah, I'll go first and then I'll let you close. But, uh, yeah, if anyone wants to contact me, my email is aij@kymerawealthdotcomoryoucanvisitourwebsiteinmarijuana.com. All I would say is just as an investor perspective, right? Always conduct your due diligence. We were joking about me and coins and stuff like that.

Um, from the perspective of a financial services, I definitely agree that we are getting to a point where, especially in the United States into a transitionary period, Crypto or digital assets will be massively adoptive. Uh, I don't know how that will look like. Um, luckily not one of those people that makes the rules, but I think we are getting into that position.

So a platform like shin Tai, those firms like Conger wealth, um, and those individuals who are trying to be innovative to have. Provide greater access. How I mentioned earlier to the retail investor, whether it is tokenized assets of real estate or debt issuance, another form of equity, um, just always conduct your due diligence.

Uh, whether you talk with a financial advisor like us, or just hit Reddit as much as possible to find that information. Yeah. And from our side, um, you can follow us on Twitter app, chin time network. Um, and we're also on telegram with that same handle actions I network. Um, but yeah, I think for anybody in, in the crypto space, who's interested in mass adoption and wants to see where the regulatory compliant, digital assets side.

So things like where tokenized real estate. And securities and funds and other types of bonds and those types of products, if they want to follow and see that starting to actually emerge in real, tangible, blockchain based markets, give us a follow. Um, and likewise, if the passionate about it as we are about this idea of bridging between defy and.

You know, um, the underline checks token is going to play a core role to that. Then again, um, I encourage them to come and join the community and, um, we are definitely going to be having an interesting six to 12 months. So, uh, we hope to see more of your all right. Thank you guys. Both so much great talking with you.

We'd love to have you back on in the future. Um, but yeah, that's it. Thanks guys. Thank you.

Alrighty, Ryan, that is it for this episode of moon or bust. I thought that was one of our best conversations ever on the show. I know you're personally really interested in real estate. Uh, so what did you think about that? Yeah, I thought it was so cool. And there's so many far reaching ideas that they brought up with tokenization of real estate and bonds.

It reminded me of radical markets. I know we've both read that book and I need to read it again. Now after this interview, most definitely. If you guys tuned in after the start, we want to point out the Benzinga crypto channel top link in the description below. If you're new, around Benzinga or moon or bust, I'd like to say welcome, uh, and make sure you're subscribed to the main channel and also smash the like button while you're down there.

Um, but that's all we have for you today. Ryan, do you have any closing thoughts for. You know what I'm about to say, what follow you on Twitter? Check me out on Twitter. I still don't have as many followers as Logan. It's cause I'm cooler than you, man. It's that simple, I guess. Oh, well you do have a Bitcoin license plate though.

So that's gotta be where it's something. Hopefully one day. Maybe one day. Alright, that's enough. Let's get out of here. All right. Visa guys.

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Episode Summary:

Market AnalysisENS Domain AirdropHyperlinq InterviewMoon or Bust - To Play Moon or Bust go to https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrency

Meet The Hosts:

Logan Ross

Blockchain Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain | Crypto investor and educator since 2016

https://twitter.com/logannross

Ryan McNamara

Bought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | Liquidated on ByBit | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2016 (sorry planet Earth) | $UNI Bag Holder

https://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamara

Disclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.

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Unedited Transcript:

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Subscribe to ourBenzinga Crypto Youtube Channel

Episode Summary:

Market AnalysisAndy Blood NFT InterviewDecred InterviewMoon or Bust - To Play Moon or Bust go to https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrency

Meet The Hosts:

Brian Moir

Solidity and React Developer | Blockchain Enthusiast | Decentralized Internet Advocate | Crypto investor since 2012

https://twitter.com/moirbrian

Logan Ross

Blockchain Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain | Crypto investor and educator since 2016

https://twitter.com/logannross

Ryan McNamara

Bought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | Liquidated on ByBit | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2016 (sorry planet Earth) | $UNI Bag Holder

https://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamara

Disclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.

Check Out Other Benzinga Podcasts Here:Check Out All Benzinga Crypto News HereGet Moon or Bust Crypto Merch HereJoin the Telegram:https://t.me/moonorbustBZfor 25% of Moon or Bust Podcast swag.Claim 1000 ZING airdrop: https://www.benzinga.com/zing

Unedited Transcript:

Yo, yo, yo, what is good? Everyone. Welcome to flight 63, aboard the moon or bust rocket, ship your home for all things, all coins and defy. My name is Logan Ross, and I'm going to be your host for today's show. I'd like to welcome everyone to the crypto show at Benzinga. If you're out there in the chat, I want to know what you guys are looking at.

What projects you have your eyes on this week. So drop them in the chat right now. Uh, will I go through all of the important links that I got to show you guys? So, uh, and make sure while you're down there, hit that like button and make sure you're subscribed to the channel if you're not already. So let's get right into it.

Boom. All right. On today's show, we will be talking to artists writer and filmmaker, Andy blood, and then we will be interviewing the project lead of . This is a huge crypto project. You guys don't want to miss out on this insight exclusive interview. Uh, so make sure you stay tuned. We'll be talking to Jake a little bit later on today.

Uh, so Ryan unfortunately is not able to make it, uh, but you are rocking with me. So, uh, I want to know what you guys are feeling, what you guys are thinking about the markets today. We will, uh, have lots of time for chat interaction. Um, and if you're new around here, we appreciate you tuning in, uh, hope you'll subscribe, hit the like button, and we also have a.

They a telegram community where you can join, it gets 25% off discount on the moon or bus merge, like this sweet hat. We got the moon or bus logo right here on the side. It's pretty hype, uh, and always, uh, as always make sure to hit us up on Twitter and connect with us there. So let's just get right into the markets, uh, for today.

There's a lot of cool stuff that I want to talk about. Um, and I want to switch the camera angles so you could see my full screen here. Okay. So what has been going on, uh, on today's market? Boom, like button click initiate. Thank you, Maxwell. Um, okay, so I'm just going to go over, uh, what, what I think is interesting until you guys drop some projects for me to look at and the chat.

Um, but we see a theme has been moving sideways a little bit. Uh, these, these are the hourly candles here and for the past, you know, maybe day, day and a half, uh, we've been kind of cooling off usually in the first half of the week. Uh, we, okay. Screen is too small. I can, I can fix that. What if I do one of those joints?

Boom, just like that. Okay, cool. Uh, so hopefully you guys can see that a little bit better now. Um, as you can see. So the second half of the week, the later half of the week, crypto usually cools off a little bit and the first half is really when it's ripping. So, you know, going into the weekend, the close, uh, of all of the, uh, you know, the Bitcoin futures, ETF and all these, uh, OTC market traded products.

Uh, it's just a little, usually a little bit quieter, but, you know, uh, okay. So we see Bitcoin has, has not been. Anything really interesting. These are the daily candles it's been moving sideways for quite quite a long time. Now, almost a week. It's kind of range-bound between, you know, this, uh, previous all-time high resistance.

Uh, and then this support that we have around 59,000 that came from, you know, much, much earlier in the year. Um, so let me know what you guys think is Bitcoin or ether going to take off first? Are we going to see. Uh, you know, it starts to take over and really control the market cycle because we've seen eith at three new all-time highs, whereas Bitcoin has only done one so far.

So, you know, is this, is this signaling the beginning of the flipping? Uh, we'll have to see, but let me know what you guys think in the chat below. Uh, so back to. You know, the top 100 overview, uh, some exciting news happened this week. Solana has finally flipped car Dano. Uh, I think this has been a long time coming.

If you, if you've been tuning into Mooner bus before you guys know that we, you know, we really prioritize on chain transactions in the ecosystem around these, these competitor blockchains. So we see a ton of stuff going on on Solana and Ethereum, but not too much has been happening in the Cardona ecosystem.

Uh, despite that the market cap has been over $60 billion for quite some time now, but Solanas is finally catching up, uh, $71 billion market cap. Now it's really taken a firm lead distance itself from car Dano. Uh, and that's pretty exciting. So if you guys are looking into Solano ecosystem, let me know, and I can talk about some projects that I'm looking at in the ecosystem, uh, and maybe take a look at some of the projects you guys are looking at as well.

Uh, Boom. Okay. So we got to chat here from sneaky won. He won one of the giveaways for the swag and he is repping letting us know that it is quality. I can confirm myself as well as I did make the hat. I did design it and create it myself. So, uh, head on over to swag.benzinga.com and you can see the full lineup of our products.

We got that. No chat, you centralize everything. We got to get technical shirt. Benzinga news, go Burr. We got tons of dope stuff. And then here is all of your crypto, alright. Back to the markets. So we see ripple, uh, is up 7% on the week. This one's kind of interesting. Uh, it looks like there. The lawsuit with the sec might be coming to a close.

And I think ripple is the winner here. You know, the sec might slap them with a fine try to make it look like they won, but they did not rule ripple as a security. So we might see it start trading on U S exchanges again pretty soon. And I think that is the main driver of this price increase over the past week.

I also heard some news about a ERC 20 wrapped version of ripple, uh, that, you know, despite whatever legal issues are going on, this wrapped token is kind of a loophole in the current law. So we might see Coinbase, uh, you know, list the wrapped version of ripple ERC 20 based, and that would allow us investors to get, uh, exposure to ripple once again.

So pretty bullish, uh, news going on for ripple. Uh, let me know your price target. And if you guys are trading it down below, we also see polka dot ha has finally gotten a little bit of shine. I've been calling this one for a while. Um, it's been, you know, very undervalued compared to the rest of the smart contract blockchains.

I mean, if you take a look at Cardinal versus polka dot, so let's just break it down. Both of them were started by theory. Co-founders okay. Cardona was started by Charles Hoskinson the motivational speaker. Uh, that's a joke. And then poke it out was started by Gavin wood. Gavin wood is actually the co-founder of Ethereum that I would prefer to place my bets on as he was the one who created the Ethereum virtual machine.

He created solidity himself. Uh, so he was really one of the biggest builders of, uh, you know, Ethereum. And I think that that will make his, his project polka dot much more successful longterm and polka.is more focused on connecting blockchains, becoming an interoperability protocol. Um, and for that reason, I see a more bullish future for polka dot than cardiac.

Uh, you know, most definitely, maybe even, maybe even Solano on some of these other projects, it has been pretty slept on though. The technology is kind of advanced. It's more of a fundamental play, which, you know, doesn't really take priority in a bull market. Uh, as you can see, you know, memes, hype speculation take priority in a bull market.

And that is why this, uh, beats here dog meme, uh, has a $30 billion market cap. But, uh, yeah. So poke it out up 16%. We're going to keep our eyes on that. Uh, let's see, what do we got here in the chat? Uh, Yoshi wants to take a look at BTC and rich says Eve moves first, and then she, that's very interesting. I'm curious to hear more about that, but we did take a short look at Bitcoin, but we could take another look.

Uh, so you can see here, I've had these lines going for a really long time. You may have seen them before, but basically, uh, I drew this triangle here, uh, and it turned out to be pretty decent as soon as we broke above the triangle right here. Uh, you know, I speculated maybe this green line could be our path to the top.

And what do you know over the next two weeks? It literally wrote it. Exactly. And I, I basically just got lucky, you know, all indicators are wrong, but some might be helpful. Um, I definitely like to point out the, these lines of resistance and support. I think that those are kind of good tools for saying, okay, if it breaks up here, uh, you know, this is where we might go, or if it breaks down, this is where we might go.

We just want to know the levels to look out for, uh, and be ready to react based on what might happen.

What's up Hadid. I see you out there in the chat. Welcome back. Appreciate you tuning in once again. And if you're just joining the stream, this is moon or bust your home for all things. Alt coins and DFI drop the coins you're looking at in the chat. And while you're down there, make sure to smash that like button, send it to the moon.

All right. Back to the charts. So we might've talked about this on Monday show, uh, but I think it's worth going over one more time. So you guys saw Facebook announced their name, change to Metta. They're trying to pivot to the metaverse and that has sent a couple of these metaverse cryptocurrencies, like literally straight to the moon.

So if we go, uh, take a look at decentral and this is one of the biggest and, and currently active, uh, metaverse blockchain applications right now and on the let's see, where can we see the seven. It's ranked number 41. So I'll just scroll down to boom. On the seven day decentral land is up 121%. Uh, it got to like almost $4.

Now it's back under three. Um, I think that this is, you know, it could be a good play long-term, but I'm looking at some of the other, uh, metaverse plays that haven't quite blown up yet. And one of them that I want to point out to you guys is a little project on Solana called star Atlas. Uh, Let me know in the chat, if you've heard of star Atlas before.

Um, but this is one that I'm insanely bullish on. I have been for a long time, I picked up some tokens earlier this summer, and basically I'm just forgetting about them for the time being, I think start less could be a huge, huge project, uh, you know, 10 years from now and, you know, picking up. Piece while it's the 264th biggest crypto.

Uh, I think it might be a good idea. So star Atlas basically is like an open world, blockchain game think like GTA and star wars combined. Okay. So you can form guilds, you can buy planets. All of these are represented by NFTs on the salon of blockchain. And you can also form guilds like interplanetary, guilds, and team up with your friends, battle against other guilds and steal their NFTs.

Uh, I think this is just a sweet concept. Um, and SPF himself, uh, sandbank been freed, the owner of FTX. Uh, he says that the team behind star, you continues to impress him. And, you know, I trust SPF. He, uh, has done nothing but write for my portfolio so far. So I'm going to continue, uh, to hold this Atlas token.

Let me know what you guys think of Atlas. And if there's any other metaverse plays you are looking at right now, uh, another Solano ecosystem project that I think is interesting is radium. So this is a decentralized exchange on Solana, and it's one of the most popular, if not the most popular. And I have some of these tokens as well.

I picked them up around the same time as Atlas earlier this summer. And I'm probably just going to ride it out, you know? Um, I want it to hold some Solano, but I figured I could get more exposure to the salon ecosystem by, you know, diversifying my funds into these smaller tokens. Then once, once more people start using Solano, realize what it is, they'll eventually find their way to these protocols.

So that's my thesis there. Mush wants to know if I have any. Man up predictions. So, you know, from a price standpoint, Manoj is really hot right now. Um, and that could mean two things that could mean that it's about to cool off soon. And it could also mean that this is going to be seen as like the blue chip metaverse play for crypto.

So the hype could be just starting in my opinion. Uh, but it's also kind of risky to buy in right now, just based off of the recent price action, uh, and the hype surrounding the metaverse. I think that if you're planning to hold, you know, for at least six months, it's probably going to work out for you. Um, but you know, always, always keep that risk reward in mind.

We see a fully diluted market cap of $6 billion right now for decentral land. And obviously Facebook or Meadows market cap is much higher than that. And we'll see who ends up, uh, you know, having the better product longterm. All right. Let's see. Max wants to take a look at C R O so we will do that. And then pretty soon here, we will be doing our first interview on today's show.

Uh, and you guys don't want to miss it. Okay. So CRO is crypto.com. The exchanges coins kind of like BNB, for example, uh, except crypto.com has a few interesting features that aren't offered by Binance and their token, uh, is used to support those. So one of the things that I think is pretty cool from them, uh, are their visa, cryptocurrency credit card.

So you can actually earn a cash back in crypto in CRO, uh, with these credit cards by staking their CRO token. So let's say you want to ball out, you stake 400,000 CRO tokens. This will get you the obsidian card and the obsidian card gets you access to the private jet partnership. So if you're balling out, uh, with that CRO, uh, you could really take advantage of it.

If you got in early, especially then, you know, you, you could probably get some nice perks. Pretty cheap. Uh, I personally don't have one of these, but I know some people who do they like them. Uh, and I think that they're only going to get better with time, but yeah, let's take a look at the price of CRO year to date.

Oh, wow. I did not realize it was taking off, like that's up 40% today alone. That's pretty crazy. I mean, we're seeing crypto.com uh, you know, launch a bunch of new advertising campaigns, uh, and, you know, get those sponsorships like on ESPN. I've been seeing them. Uh, so I think that they're probably just gonna gain more eyes and exposure over the next six months.

It might not be a bad play personally. I don't hold any CRO. Uh, but if I did want to get one of those credit cards, that would definitely be the move. Let me know what you guys think about these products in the chat is a crypto credit card. Something that, that you are interested in, uh, or would you prefer to, you know, hold most of your crypto in, in cold storage or, uh, and you know, not spend it, just spend your USD instead of.

Uh, so Brandon Brandy wants to know where do I go to buy Atlas? Uh, so actually the exchange I just showed you radium. So radium is a decentralized exchange on Solano where you can get access to all these salons tokens. So this is where I went to buy Atlas. Um, but you can also buy Atlas on a couple of exchanges.

Probably you can find out by clicking the market tab on coin market cap. Yeah. So it's on FTX, which is not available in the U S but you can get it on radium and the serum decks on Solano as well.

All right guys. And with that, it is time for our first interview of the day. So here with us, we have Andy blood. Who's a creative genius ex strategist at Facebook. He's launching the first ever minted book and publishing rights via a non fungible token. Andy, welcome to lunar bust. How are you doing today?

Kiarra, Logan. Nice to meet you. I'm doing good. Beautiful morning in Oakland. Oh, I'm so glad to hear it. Um, and I'm very glad you're able to join us today. So Andy, I want to know a little bit about how you got into crypto. What was the creative path that led you there? I was, um, I was at Facebook for five years and I was leaving in June, just as the company was tilting towards being, uh, the metaverse company.

And mark Zuckerberg gave his, his vision about, um, their future creators. The economy and how has the chance will all creators all over the world to, to, to get paid for what they're really good at doing, which is furnishing the world with creative ideas. And, um, that was immediately a path I wanted to get involved in.

And, uh, the, the last chapter of the book and there's, here's a, here's a hard copy of the book it's called, it's called fall blade. And the very last chapter, the closing chapter deals with the Playboy NFT Playboy's most successful NFT ever, um, is an image of a centerfold called Laina Soderbergh. Now in 1972, her image became the first ever digital digital image, the four runner to the JPEG.

And I'll show you a quick picture. Now, if you study computer science or mathematics, Or AI, that's an image. You'll know it's in thousands of white papers around the world about the, about the field of, um, image, image recognition, algorithms, AI, et cetera. And we'd made a documentary about Laina Soderbergh's life.

She's known as the first lady of the internet or the patron state of JPEGs. And Playboy reached out to us and said, look, we've seen the documentary. We love it. Can you put us in touch with Lena? Who's now a 72 year old woman in Stockholm. And, uh, we went sure. Why and Playboy said, well, we've got a great idea.

We've got an amazing back catalog that we're mentoring as NFTs. It's given us a brand new place to play in the modern, in the modern world with his archive. We've got, that is unlike any other. And, um, if we sell the or Soderbergh image NFT, then the funds or some of the funds will go to her. So actually five decades after her image was used by male scientists to create the JPEG, she was going to get paid via non fungible tokens in the very latest digital cash.

And that was such a beautiful bookend, that entire story and the closing chapter of the book. So the lane, his story, plus the pivot to met to metaverse, um, and then getting involved with the Damien Hirst, um, currency NFT, um, project in June, July suddenly became, this is where I'm going. And then the chance to launch a book as a world first NFT project became, okay, this is going to get headlines.

It's going to create a conversation, you know, is this book, is this a book? Is this an artifact? Um, is this a publishing deal? Because the reserve price was us $50,000 for the NFT. It's deliberately not cheap. And it just raises all those conversations about, you know, how are we creating for the future and the proposed metaverse and what forms can these creative endeavors take?

Okay. So I have two questions for you. One, could you tell me a little bit about, a little bit more about your involvement in the Damian her's currency project, and then, uh, I'd like to know what makes the, the NFT book a world first, what specific features of it are novel co unintended? Oh, I've been, yeah, no great punk.

I've been, I've been following Damien Hirst since he was a young artist in 93, 94, and then he exploded onto the British scene in the global scene. And in the last few years, I've been fortunate, fortunate enough to pick up a few of his physical pieces of. So in June, when he, when he went public with the idea that he was publishing 10,000 pieces of physical art known as currency, um, each individually recognized as an NFT.

Um, I just thought that was an amazing project to, to jump in because he attacked it from so many layers. You know, he's giving all the people that were, um, fortunate enough to be involved, um, the chance to either keep the art or keep the NFT, but you can only have one, you can't have two, you've gotta, you've gotta make that choice between the physical world and then, you know, the digital world or the metaverse.

And again, that's brilliant, you know, conundrum to juggle in the mind. Yeah, I know the code is our aspect of it is very cool. Yeah. And, um, I secured one and the prices have rocketed, um, at launch, uh, U us 2000 a piece of currency. And I think the floor, I think the floor price now is, uh, is about 30,000 us.

Um, will you be burning yours for the physical? No, I'm keeping the NFC. I'm keeping mine for my son because I think in, in 20 years he will probably think it's the best thing that ever passed on. Yep. I have to agree with you. Okay. So tell me more about the book, uh, what, where you launched it, what chain it's on, why you chose that, uh, and all the cool features about it.

Well, I'm based in New Zealand. So I wanted to, um, I found accessing NFTs from New Zealand, a particularly difficult thing to do unless you've got somebody handholding the process and the fact that, that. Um, you Zealand has a public blockchain called sens net. That was about to launch, um, an NFT platform for all New Zealand is called litho.

Um, at the same time that I was launching a book was, uh, was, uh, was a perfect opportunity for me. And it was a great opportunity for, uh, litho to, um, to go to launch with something that created a wider conversation about what could be an NFT. So for me, it was made in New Zealand mentored here for this audience, primarily because we want New Zealand is to get involved because we're missing out and then explore that opportunity because the, the litho centrality team also have a global audience space.

So there will be international interests, but it was also a domestic audience. And, and let's see if we can usher people to the world of NFTs and. The first collection, the full big bleed collection went up with 33 NFTs, three were related to the book in three additions, ones of ones. You know, I wanted to make them a unique opportunity to buy outright the ownership of the book and publishing rights so that you could, again, this could something that could be enjoyed in a digital form or an analog form.

And that's up to the that's beholden to the owner, the future on the side, what they want to do with that. And the additions were unique. They had, they had, um, unique covers that are different to the, to the paperback and Amazon edition. And then going one step further. Um, within the 44,000 words in the book, there is planted a 12 word C praise for a digital wallet on.

Now towards Thanksgiving, I'm going to make that address public. And then literally anybody who wants to, you know, try and crack that open, then go for your life. You know, if you, if you know how to pass 44 or 12 words for 44,000, go for your life, and I leave something in the wallet, um, you know, there'll be an undisclosed prize for anyone who might get in.

That's incredible. You know, it's the most creative way right now to publish a book. You can become the publisher. You can use the copy to crack open a wallet. You can enjoy the book, you know, and even the language we talk about owning a copy of a book gives you the chance to own the original. No, anyone can raise 5,000, you know, release paperback book.

You can own the only one that gives you the permission to own distribute and consume. so there's 33 NFTs. Three of them are special. Do all three of these come with ownership. Yeah. Okay. The book has mentored Mehta version. One is the full edition, uh, 70 chapters, 11 stories, ma Mehta version two is a 70 chapter edition.

And those chapters only focus on creativity. Massive version three is the black Swan edition, which is the 11 most remarkable stories in my career. The unexpected events, um, uh, you know, packaged in that edition. So there are three there's the master, the edit and the black Swan. And they come at different prices and the, um, the artwork sold out almost immediately.

So that collection has been live and the artwork sold out within 48 hours. Now the book NFTs didn't sell, but I think it's, it could be a year before people understand what that even means. You know, this is a kind of leading edge conversation with people. Um, I relisted them last night because of this interview because of the global audience.

So if they are live now for 48 hours, if anybody wants to, um, you know, have a crack at owning, owning the NFT, um, I've had, I've had offers behind the scenes from people who want to buy the book, then go and realist on open sea, um, for the secondary market. Um, so one way or another it's gonna work out, but also, you know, it's given me, you know, exposure to a market and an audience that I didn't necessarily have a connection or an infinity where there's given me huge headlines, great PR it's given me the open the door into the nit world, which I'm embracing.

I've got more collections coming up now, um, in collaboration with, uh, with an artist called red kitted out with, um, red kiddo who I work with a lot. And, um, this is what I'm going to do right now. I'm going to focus on this, you know, Or a market where creative people can get paid. So that means, you know, we've had 20 years where creativity was a loss leader for a media buy and now creativity has value and, um, you know, creatives in whatever form can now explore this space and take advantage of it.

You know, musicians, artists, writers, you know, uh, yet to be termed, you know, explore the space. So if you could really quick tell us where we could go to take a look at the NFT project and maybe place a bid on one of them, that'd be great. And then I also want to know, like, what do you hope to see, um, from your project?

Do you hope to see more artists getting into it, more authors getting into the NFT space? Uh, like if you could have one thing come out of your project, what would that be? Okay. Well, the, the, the book is NFC is available at leftover. Dot X, Y Zed. So litho versus the platform on top of the sense blockchain.

Um, so anybody can access Lissa leftovers. Um, you might need to, uh, transfer open up a sens wallet and do, to do some transfers. Um, what is the book about? The book is about creativity, um, to Isaac. So remarkable stories and hard won lessons from the coalface of creativity and the bleeding edge of advertising technology from, from some, from the point of view who, somebody who spent 30 years being creative for the world's biggest brands and Facebook, and to your final question, local, what Logan, why do this?

My entire career has been about lighting the fire of creativity within people, businesses, and organizations. And if this project can do that, and if this project likes a thousand flames, And produces a thousand more great ideas, then I'm happy and nothing else matters. Amazing. Andy, thank you so much for joining us today.

Uh, make sure you go check out litho verse.xyz, uh, to follow up on Andy's book and go check it out. It's still on Amazon, right? It's on Amazon paperback, Kendall and NFT. Thank you Logan. Awesome. Thank you for your time today. All right, next up on moon. Our bus today, we have another interview. This is the two interview special episode a and this one is equally as exciting as the first.

Uh, so here with us today, we have project lead and co-founder at Jake. Welcome to Moonbus. How are you doing today? Doing quite well. Logan. How about yourself? Doing very well, thank you. So, uh, let's just get right into it, Jake. So I want to know about your background in technology and cryptocurrency, uh, and how you found yourself where you are today, for sure.

So, uh, I've been a system administrator for like 20 years. So I, you know, I started getting interested in open source software back when I was in grad school, I used to be a science person. I was in a physics PhD program and didn't end up chasing that to the end of the game. And then I, uh, I got into cryptocurrency in 2013 because I saw that, uh, you know, cryptocurrency was really taking off and I thought it was a fascinating topic.

So I got involved. I worked on Bitcoin for a while. I got tired of that. And then, uh, we, we, uh, created an altcoin called D credit to address, you know, some of the issues that we saw as shortcomings in Bitcoin. Very interesting. So, uh, I'd love to hear when was decrim started and what were a few of those issues you, you sought to fix.

For sure. Um, decried wheat, we started working on it in February, 2014 and we did it in private. So it took about two years to go from an idea to a, to a launch. And then we launched it in February, 2016. We did an airdrop, we didn't do a, we didn't do the usual sort of insider pre-sales, uh, you know, that many of them, many other projects have done.

Half of it was airdrop. Half of it went to, uh, you know, developers as part of a small three mine. And then, um, the features that we, that we are, the issues we saw with Bitcoin were really three things is one is that minors had too much power in, you know, in the context of Bitcoin in the sense that they can block consensus changes, and essentially, and effectively.

The network from upgrading, that's obviously a big problem. Another, you know, another one was the tragedy of the commons that goes on with development work, which is anyone familiar with Bitcoin knows that it's hard to get and raise money to do development work. You have to have a product. You have to have some kind of a profit making activity to justify people putting millions of dollars behind your know, behind your team or to build something.

So it's hard to build things in that even includes, you know, the, the core software that is, you know, Bitcoin has the luxury of being the first and the, you know, the biggest cryptocurrency. You know how long that's going to hold up or, you know, who's going to fund all that dev work for how long is, is an open question, you know, Blockstream stepped in and same thing with, uh, what is it like chaincode labs.

And then I think the MIT media lab, uh, as well, so there's been a number of entities have been funding this development work for a while, but we decided to fund it ourselves internally. And then I, you know, I think the last thing that we, that we wanted to do to address was really just the, sort of the central planning committee nature of changes, which is that what we saw when we worked on Bitcoin was that a very small number of people had a huge amount of say in terms of, you know, what did and did not happen on the network.

And that's not necessarily a bad thing, but it does bring up a question of fairness. Is it really fair that just a handful of people run Bitcoin? When, in my opinion, one of the most interesting things about Bitcoin is that it kind of does away with the need for a central planning committee, with the Nakamoto consensus system.

Hmm. Yeah. No, very interesting. So, uh, I'm curious to hear your thoughts on kind of the modern venture capital landscape that's investing in these projects kind of centralizing them more, uh, and how differs from this. I know you said you funded it yourself. Um, but how do you continue raising funds on an open source?

Yeah. I mean, I th the, the process for raising money is, is, is a challenging one. When it comes to, uh, you know, developing technology. There's not a lot of people want to put a whole bunch of money on the table and risk it. You know what, just like with venture capital projects easily 90, 90 plus percent of these projects go to zero or very close.

So there's, so there's a lot of attrition in this game. So in order to meaningfully fund it, you need a lot of money to spread it across a lot of things. And then you can, you know, nine, nine out of 10 or nine, nine and a half out of 10 will, will crater. And the other ones are where you, where you make your make your money.

So th th that model in my view is, you know, it's, it's good when buckshot works. And then I, I feel like in the context of an open-source project is it's really challenging, right? Because anyone who's at all familiar with open source development knows that people do this kind of as. Matter of ideology, they care about something.

They want to go out there. They want to build something that maybe someone else hasn't hasn't built before, or hasn't built the same way. And then. And this idea that, well, how are we gonna make our money back? What are the investors going to say? Those two things are almost kind of, you know, inherently at odds.

So I feel like that's a real challenge for most projects that is that, you know, the project does well. And the projects price goes up because of investors and large, you know, big whale investors, but that's almost directly at odds with the ethos behind most open source software projects. And then in terms of how we deal with that, what we ended up doing is 10% of every block goes into a treasury fund.

And then that treasury fund is used to fund ongoing development and building out the network. Um, and we decided to do that because while we were working on Bitcoin, I was funding it and I just did it because I thought it was interesting. And you know how interesting it is really starts to be a question.

You ask yourself after a few years of doing that, it's like, okay, how many hundreds of thousands of dollars. Doing something I think is interesting versus going, ah, you know, eventually I gotta, you know, figure out a funding model for this. So that's how we've addressed it. And, you know, I think we have something over 600,000 decrease, uh, you know, in our treasury and that's like over $60 million.

So we have a nearly limitless runway as a result. So we don't necessarily need a VC investment in order to keep the, you know, the, at least the core of the project journey. We'd always like people to show up and buy lots of DECA. That's, you know, that's the dream of every crypto cryptocurrency, right? Is that you have investors and you have demand, but, you know, but, but the reality is, is that we can keep, we can keep ticking, even if that doesn't happen.

That's awesome. So talk to me about your consensus model, how you kind of, uh, took away some of the powers from the minors that you thought was too much and how you implemented proof of stake as well. Okay. Um, the, the way. The consensus system works in D credit is, is that there's, there's really the three-way split.

I'll talk about three-way split. And then I'll talk about how the two components work is our subsidy of every block is split three ways. 60% of it goes to minors. 30% of it goes to stake stakeholders. And then 10% of it goes to the treasury, the treasury just accumulates and then gets spent as necessary as contractors perform work for the project.

Um, but the proof of work and proof of state components, most people are familiar with proof of work that is, you know, you're solving hard computational problems with computers. And then, you know, if you mine a block, you get the reward. So that's how proof of work works. But what we did is that we interleaved a proof of state component.

And what do I, what do I mean by this? Um, proof of stake effectively has the ability to Trump proof of work as, and I know that's a horribly overloaded verb at this point. So, uh, you know, I apologize if that triggers anyone. So, uh, so what it comes down to is that normally when blocks are made it's by the miners.

So the miners have an effective monopoly on a writing to the shared ledger in a pure proof of work of cryptocurrency. In our case, what we do is we actually have effect like a second authentication factor, where there, there are voters and they vote on that block. And that allows us to do things like change our consensus rules on the fly, and while we're changing it so that we can keep the chain going, people vote on the consensus rules, and those votes are tallied from the stakeholders, not from the minors.

And then on that basis, we can actually activate new consensus rules, even if the miners don't approve them or try to block them. So what it does is it is it creates sort of a separation between miners and stakeholders. A miner is welcoming to be a stakeholder. In fact, you know, my, my, my read is that there are a number of miners who are already stakeholders and they, you know, they may be very sub you know, substantial stakeholders, but this process has been.

But this process has worked out pretty well in the sense that it diminishes the power of the proof of work of the miners. The miners historically, uh, are, are almost entirely located in China, whether they're Chinese or not as an open question, because while the machines may in the facilities may be located in China, it's hard to know who really owns those facilities or who owns those machines.

It could be somebody from the United States. It could be someone from Europe. It could be, it could be anybody. So, um, who owns those machines? That's an open question, but when it comes down to what they can do as a function of mining, that, uh, you know, that is strictly limited by the stakeholders. So if you sell all your coins as a proof of work miner, you can't, you can't participate in the governance the same way you could.

If you staked those coins and participated in the state, Yeah, that's a very powerful tool that you've implemented there, but I'm curious to know, has it impacted at all, uh, in your estimation, the ability to attract minors to your network, uh, or has that dual consensus been a selling point to attract people to the.

I think that, um, minors show up because they like to make money. And, um, I think that in terms of attracting miners, th th the entire mining game is pretty, uh, is pretty closely, you know, it's pretty tightly centralized. And when it comes to, uh, when it comes to attracting minors, I don't know if any cryptocurrency project really tries to attract miners.

That is that, you know, there's an incentive. People show up in mine and if they don't want to mind, they don't mind. So, you know, in terms of a diversity of monies, I think we actually have a pretty small group of miners with the credit, as far as I'm aware. And that's, that's a good thing and a bad thing.

So, you know, there's, there's definitely pros and cons to that. And it seems like we've had plenty of mining, but then, uh, recently, particularly, uh, as soon as, uh, you know, the, the communist party in China decided to push out, you know, basically make mining, uh, forbidden or, you know, basically push it out. Uh, we've had all, we've had some pretty interesting things going on with our hash rate.

It's been going up and down quite a bit. So things are, you know, it's mining for deep red is more centralized than I would like. Um, but you know, in terms of attracting more minors, I don't know. I don't think it's necessarily a detractor. I don't think people don't mind decrease because of our consensus.

Interesting. So, uh, we have someone out there in the chat. Isaac has, has commented on the, the China mining ban, uh, and he's actually a long-term minor of cred. Uh, he has a concern about the hostility of votes towards marketing. Do you have any thoughts or comments? I think that, um, it's very easy. I feel like lately there's been a huge amount of, uh, there's been a huge amount of concern trolling, unfortunately, uh, within the community about marketing as in, oh, there's a stilted towards marketing and marketing proposals are getting voted down and yeah, they are.

And I mean, it comes from the fact that when we get reasonable proposals, we will usually approve reasonable proposals as a group of stakeholders. And it's no one person who decides all this stuff. There is, you know, there's the stakeholders and the stakeholders determine what is, and is not, you know, a past a PR uh, proposal, but when it comes to, you know, whether, uh, whether a proposal is reasonable, there's a lot more to it than just does the proposal look reasonable on its face.

What is the history of the person who's made the proposal? What kind of work product have they generated over? How long, who, uh, you know, what else do those, does this person do on, you know, on, on the regular or how much money are they asking for? What exactly are they asking for? I mean, there've been some, some, some really tough ones recently where it's the, you know, there was, um, there was a, there was a guy, a freezers, um, uh, Dominic Frisby who had made, uh, who had made a proposal.

It was actually a very large proposal, uh, to, for the project to bankroll a couple. I think it was either one or two of his films. I think it was one, and it was a very large purples. It was hundreds of thousands of dollars to bankroll a film. And in return, what we would get is we would get a logo in the, in the bottom corner of the screen.

Now, despite my finding, you know, Dominic to be a pretty personable guy and, and likable and smart and all of that, um, What it comes down to, is it comes down to, is this a good financial decision or not? And to make a multi hundred thousand dollars spend to back someone's project that has very little to do with, uh, you know, the deep red project and in exchange for a logo in the corner of the screen.

I mean, that's, I don't think you're getting a huge amount of value. And I think that when it comes to marketing proposals, we've tried a lot of different things. So we've launched a lot of spaghetti. And so if people are just like, Hey, I want to launch the same spaghetti again. That's not exactly a compelling proposal in the context of, uh, you know, we're looking for new ideas and new ways to, you know, to do marketing.

Yeah, most definitely. I mean, if you take a look at Tesla, they've spent basically nothing on marketing and yet they're one of the biggest companies in the world. So the fact that you're focusing the money towards development, I don't think is a bad thing at all. Um, but of course that decision is actually up to the Dow.

So could you tell us about a little bit more about the Dow, how to join it, uh, and how these proposals are. Sure thing. Um, I think something worth pointing out is, is that, you know, our, our decentralized autonomous organization is really, it operates at the project level. It's effectively a layer, one Dow.

Um, there's, you know, there's a lot of doubts that operate, uh, as tokens on a theory, um, and a few other, uh, you know, sort of, uh, what is it like. Uh, smart contract blockchains. And the thing that really separates us from them is that in their case, they are almost all entirely premium. That is that they, they were created within tokens.

And then there was the usual sort of Silicon valley insider thing where it's either you were in, you know, you bought into the, you bought into the, uh, you know, the initial launch or you didn't. And then later on there's no mining. So there's no emission schedule for these, you know, for these things. So it's a finite predetermined number of tokens.

So in the context of , you know, we have, uh, it's effectively, our whole blockchain is, you know, is run by a Dao and is in, is, is, is in a sense a whole Dao that is that, you know, the ledger is part of it. The treasury is part of it. And then the contractors who work on everything are part of it along with the stakeholders and the miners.

So everyone is working together there and, you know, the way, the way it works is it. Everything goes into the treasury. And then what happens is there are proposals in our proposal system and we have a proposal system as an off-chain, uh, you know, it's an off-chain voting system so that people make proposals and then the proposals go up and the, uh, you know, the stakeholders vote on them.

And then when the voting is done, uh, uh, proposals either approved or not. And then every month, those, those, the contractors who have a winning proposal, we'll use that to fund their work. So, uh, so they'll bill and they'll invoice and then they'll get paid out. So mechanically, that's how it works, which is that people bill for their work at the end of the month.

And then they get paid and they get paid based on a proposal that was, you know, approved previous. Gotcha. Cool process. Uh, so could you tell me a little bit more about your integrations with the lightning network? Sure. So we're one of the few, uh, blockchains that supports the lightning network. Um, we haven't really been working, uh, you know, in terms of integration, integration is, is a bit challenging from the perspective of even, even with Bitcoin.

There's a lot of activity on the lightning network, but not as much as even people who are diehard Bitcoin maximalists would like that is, you know, it's a, it's a difficult process to get moving because it is substantially different than using a normal layer, one blockchain where you have addresses and you send transactions.

There's a whole bunch of extra state that you end up having to track. So in terms of how we've integrated with it, with it is we actually ended up adding the same support for the consensus rules that Bitcoin has. That is a, you know, the Segra that came with their segway change set. So we support most of that in or within D grid and then lightning network rides on top of it.

And in terms of how it's integrated is that it's effectively identical to how Bitcoin does it up to the part where they wait their transactions with, um, where they wait in the witness piece, uh, differently. But you know, that's a pretty technical detail. Most people don't care about. Yeah, we won't have to get into all of that today, but I'm curious to know, do you see proof of work by itself as an outdated consensus mechanism?

Proof of work has, you know, it has its strength, sentence weaknesses. So I mean, one thing that's and maybe what I'll do, maybe what would be instructive is for me to compare proof of work and proof of stake, proof of work is, uh, has been referred to by a checkmate as. Uh, unforeseeable costliness. Um, another way of looking at it as a is that it's an irreversible mechanism performing the bulk computations that you need to do.

Proof of work is an irreversible mechanism. It releases heat, you know, you perform a computation and then there's an, a. So it's really good in the sense that you can't. So if you're talking about reorganizing a chain or having a, you know, having a big chain reorganization, that's good from the perspective of it being expensive to create a competing chain.

So if you're going to create a competing chain, it's expensive, but then there's some really bad things about it. And here's one of them. One of them is that when you mind, you could just mine a whole bunch of coins, and that gives you a certain amount of power in any proof of work, uh, you know, cryptocurrency, you can dump those coins right away, and it doesn't affect the, your sort of sovereignty in that system at all.

So what I would, what I would describe that as is that is a weekly aligned incentive so that, you know, the incentive of miners is weekly aligned with that of the network itself. Um, you know, and, and, and the, the thing that I like about it, that's, that's really positive to me is that there it's kind of a mirror nominally meritocratic process, but then if you look at proof of stake, proof of stake is pretty different, which is that proof of stake.

It is effectively reversible. That is, you know, there's no cost to create forks in the chain. If you have a pure proof of work chain, there's no cost in the absence of a slashing mechanism or similar or penalty system. There's, there's no cost to making a competing chains. So that's obviously bad. That's sort of the, nothing at stake problem with, with, with, uh, pure proof of stake.

And then from an incentive perspective, it's actually a lot better in the sense that if you are staking and you're a major stakeholder, you're highly incentivized not to dump the coins because you hold those coins and that's how you stay. So, you know, if you're staking, you're not going to be dumping. So that's really good from an incentive perspective.

Now, the part I don't, I don't like about proof of stake is that it has, you know, there's a component of it that is, uh, could be described as, uh, I think oligarchic is, is. Overstating it, but I think that it feudal would be more, a more appropriate term in the sense that if you have the coins, you continue to have some coins.

So that, that process of sort of like, you know, my daddy's rich. So I'm rich is, is to some extent present. And I, you know, I bet based on your smirk, I expect you you've encountered this game many times in your life and, you know, that's, uh, you know, that's really sort of the long and the short of it. I think that proof of work can be good, but proof of work can also be bad.

I mean, imagine, imagine, imagine two scenarios, one where I'm where a manufacturer distributes, uh, minors fairly to anyone who shows up and, you know, wants to buy them versus. Somewhere versus a manufacturer who hoards those, those machines and never lets anyone else buy them. In the first case, you have a nominally fair distribution mechanism.

And in the second case, you have a pretty questionable distribution mechanism because no one else can get the minors. So, so the fairness and how good, not good, um, you know, a consensus system, proof of work is it really depends on the conditions. Awesome. Yeah, I definitely, I try to emphasize that point a lot that stickers are better incentivize.

Um, but we often don't see the flip side of that argument that it's much easier to fork in, you know, kind of take your own chain. So that's a very interesting, uh, you know, point that you have there next, could you tell me a little bit about the DCR token and all of its value adds and benefits and use case.

Sure. So, um, D credit is really designed to be a store of value. That is as much as, as much as anyone wants to, uh, you know, is that everyone wants to say X, Y, or Z as a store of value. What we're trying to do is we're trying to replicate the, the ability to store and send coins from, uh, from Bitcoin and then add things that we think, you know, substantially improved the quality of the network, such as, uh, the ability to adapt.

And do it at the stakeholders discretion that is go, you know, Hey, these are the rules as they are right now. And then maybe in the future, the rules change. Maybe they need to change for technical reasons. Maybe they need to change for, you know, environmental reasons. There's a whole bunch of different things that could, uh, you know, they can come up.

So you gotta, you gotta be ready to flex and adapt and change the rules. The other thing is, and I didn't really mention that much about it is, is that, uh, the security, uh, there is a security enhancement that comes from doing proof of stake and proof of work, which is that you get the security, uh, ads from both of them.

Uh, so it, it, it's roughly linear, uh, so that you have one, you have another, so that, that gives you an additive security boost. And then the other thing is really it's about sustainability. Building a network that runs on open source software for the longterm, whether we're talking years or decades or centuries is something that requires foresight and planning and funding and preferably funding that doesn't come from.

People who, you know, who have weekly aligned incentives with, uh, you know, with the network, say people who just want to get rich and get, you know, enter and exit and clock a big us dollar capital gain. Um, when it, you know, in terms of the features is we do have something that I haven't mentioned at all here, which is we do have, we have the highest participation rate amongst opt in privacy projects.

Uh, you know, that we're aware of. And what that means is is that if you care about privacy and you care about all these other things, like having a store of value, having a say in where the, in where the token, you know, and where the, the token or the blockchain goes and that you care about the sustainability of such a project.

Not only that we give you privacy. So, so we deliver a lot of privacy over 50% of our network opts in to use to using, or the circulating supply, um, is using privacy. And we've been doing that for a long time. We support the lightning network. We may or may not have something very interesting involving the lightning network coming soon.

And, um, when it comes to, uh, you know, when it comes to a project that does many, many things well decreased is, is, is definitely among the top of those. Most, most, uh, cryptocurrency projects are a one trick pony. They either do privacy or they do, you know, governance, or they do, you know, uh, or they do lightning network.

It's sort of, it's pretty limited, you know, even, even Bitcoin with as much, you know, market share and network. And, you know, developers is, has, has been mostly a one-trick pony up until this point. So, so. We aim by sort of doing many things well, to be a Jack of all trades and, you know, and, and, and draw interest on that basis and going forward, you know, we'll, we'll continue, uh, seeing more proposals, voting, voting the good ones in and voting the bad ones down.

And, uh, hopefully, uh, we'll, we'll make the right decisions as a group, as stakeholders. Awesome. So, um, I know it's up to the Dow, but if you could kind of tell me what's next in your mind, um, maybe what the development team is working on and what are some of the Dow initiatives what's exciting. You the most right now for the next year or two for.

Well, what's exciting me the most right now is, uh, we, we have, uh, several, several minor consensus changes coming up, uh, thing there's, uh, some issues we've had historically, we're going to basically be able to do consensus bug fixes soon. I'm excited about that. I'm very excited about an enhancement to our mixing.

Our saw our privacies, uh, you know, component of the project, which is that we're having post, uh, post quantum secure mixing in our next release 1.7. And that means that even people with quantum computers, whether they're on or off planet can, uh, can not, uh, figure out exactly where all the coins went or who owns them.

So we figured that's a, that's a nice touch. I don't believe anyone else has done that yet. Um, despite the, you know, despite some things that people done with confidential transactions, Additionally, you know, w we're we're probably gonna have a number of fun consensus changes coming up in the, in the near future here.

Um, and you know, in terms of lightening network, I, uh, I can only say this to be ready for a surprise when it comes to the lightning network. I like the sound of that. Uh, and that, that quantum, uh, you know, consensus upgrade is really interesting to me is this, like, in the, in the case that shot 2 56 gets broken, you want to have, uh, you know, protection against that.

Does P equal NP well, well, what, what I'm, what I'm specifically talking about is, so in our mixing process, we use this thing called a it's a, it's a derivative of it's based on coin shuffle plus plus. So that process is doesn't use post quantum secure, um, uh, public keys, uh, public key infrastructure. So.

What you could do is hypothetically, if you had a big quantum computer, you could watch the mixing process and then grind out which, which coins went where now this is, this is a, you know, this is a theoretical attack, but what, what, what this change that we're making does is it makes it, so even if you have a quantum computer, you cannot do that.

And so the reason we decided to do this is because if you do this on chain, you make the whole chain, you know, PQ secure. Um, the size of transactions goes up by about, uh, like five X plus, which is obviously pretty undesirable. You don't want big transactions on a blockchain. It's expensive. So, um, so what we decided to do is to make the mixing process, which actually occurs partially off.

As we, as we will go post quantum there, because then we don't have to worry about the size considerations. Gotcha. Do you see the, uh, you know, the shuffling process as potentially a regulatory issue, do you see, you know, obviously public blockchains, like Bitcoin, the government can use them to track where funds are moving.

Um, but I'm concerned they might take a stance against them. Does this concern you as well? You know, from a regulatory perspective, I think something that's that I view as a sad direction that govern that nation, state governance has been going. I think a bit of a topic change, but is that, is that nation, state governance has been going towards the, because we can monitor everything.

We should monitor everything. I disagree with that at a fundamental level, this idea that, you know, you and I are as normal people need to be constantly tracked and surveilled in every aspect of our, of our human existence is, is ridiculous to me. You don't need to know every, every asset that every person has on the planet in order to be, to effectively govern them or to, you know, or to, or to keep your government were in good working order.

I think this, this notion that you need to be able to serve, you know, 100% surveillance, 100% of the time on everybody is, is a joke. And then that it's a bad way to run a society. So that for, you know, with that in mind, I really disagree with, with where things are going. Maybe it could be a regulatory problem, but I think as a matter of principle, I, I highly disagree with it.

And correspondingly, I think that all communications online should be encrypted and they should be done that way because no one, you know, if I'm talking to Logan on the internet, who else has businesses that other than me and Logan's, so it's a, you know, that. I believe strongly when it comes to, you know, thoughts, uh, speech and all of that is that custody is king.

And so other people shouldn't have custody of the things you're saying or doing it's, it's a, it's an awful rabbit hole. And then what what's bound to happen is the central planning committee that runs everything is just going to, you know, basically, uh, dictate what you can and can't do. I think there's you got to draw the line somewhere.

Yeah, no, I think that's what blockchain is all about. That's why I'm in this space. And I, and I truly hope to see a societal shift towards, you know, our viewpoints with the growth and expansion of blockchain. I think governments will end up realizing that they're kind of shooting themselves in the foot and forcing capital out of their borders.

Uh, and you know, if they don't, it will be too late for them. So crazy world we live in today. Yeah. It's um, yeah, this whole surveillance surveillance as governance. It's like guys, I think 99.9% of people are good people and that they're not, you know, they're not out there to, you know, saw people's legs off or, you know, commit awful crimes.

They're just trying to live their lives. And so this idea that you have to watch 100% of the people to catch the 0.1% who are like legitimately bad is ridiculous. You know, if people are, if people are bad, actors, governments need to get out there and catch those bad actors like they used to before everything was constantly surveilled.

Well, Jake, unfortunately we are out of time today. So I just want to give you the floor for one last time. If you want to make any shout outs or let the audience know about anything you've got going on, where they can connect with you now. The revolution will not be centralized. Decreed is where it is, where to look to see that revolution.

Uh, you're welcome to meet us out and meet up with us online chat.de kra.org or the website dickhead.org to check it out and learn more. Awesome. You guys heard it here first? That is it for moon or bus today? Uh, stick around for pre-market prep at the close, and I will see you guys back on Monday, uh, but until then have a great weekend.

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Episode Summary:

Market AnalysisEden Network InterviewAndy Blood NFT InterviewMoon or Bust - To Play Moon or Bust go to https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrency

Meet The Hosts:

Brian Moir

Solidity and React Developer | Blockchain Enthusiast | Decentralized Internet Advocate | Crypto investor since 2012

https://twitter.com/moirbrian

Logan Ross

Blockchain Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain | Crypto investor and educator since 2016

https://twitter.com/logannross

Ryan McNamara

Bought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | Liquidated on ByBit | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2016 (sorry planet Earth) | $UNI Bag Holder

https://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamara

Disclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.

Check Out Other Benzinga Podcasts Here:Check Out All Benzinga Crypto News HereGet Moon or Bust Crypto Merch HereJoin the Telegram:https://t.me/moonorbustBZfor 25% of Moon or Bust Podcast swag.Claim 1000 ZING airdrop: https://www.benzinga.com/zing

Unedited Transcript:

Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/moon-or-bust/donations

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

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Subscribe to ourBenzinga Crypto Youtube Channel

Episode Summary:

Record CryptoPunk SaleMoon or Bust - To Play Moon or Bust go to https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrency

Meet The Hosts:

Brian Moir

Solidity and React Developer | Blockchain Enthusiast | Decentralized Internet Advocate | Crypto investor since 2012

https://twitter.com/moirbrian

Logan Ross

Blockchain Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain | Crypto investor and educator since 2016

https://twitter.com/logannross

Ryan McNamara

Bought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | Liquidated on ByBit | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2016 (sorry planet Earth) | $UNI Bag Holder

https://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamara

Disclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.

Check Out Other Benzinga Podcasts Here:Check Out All Benzinga Crypto News HereGet Moon or Bust Crypto Merch HereJoin the Telegram:https://t.me/moonorbustBZfor 25% of Moon or Bust Podcast swag.Claim 1000 ZING airdrop: https://www.benzinga.com/zing

Unedited Transcript:

Don't miss your free chance to tune into Benzing his very own bootcamp series on November 20th. If you're looking to dive into new concepts and grow your account, this one's for you. GM zingers. My name is Logan Ross, and I'd like to welcome you to flight 61, aboard the moon or buzzed rocket. Ship your home for all things, altcoins and defy.

We've got a great show coming up for you today. Let's get right into it.

Joining me today is number one, Dex trader pirate, Ryan McNamara here. Lay, put my costume on as well. Hi, how are you doing Ryan? R I'm doing well, Logan. How are you at the holiday? Happy Halloween to everyone out there. Uh, let us know what your costume is going to be. Drop it in the chat below. Uh, and we will highlight our favorites.

So, Ryan, what are we doing on today's show? Oh, we got a lot coming up. We'll be interviewing pastel network. It's a network for NFTs. It's launching soon super cool stuff. And we'll also be looking at everybody's favorite dog coins. We'll go over some Sheba, IE new we'll be going over some Floki as well as some of the smaller ones that might be on the come up.

So stay tuned for that. Very, very cool. So before we get started, okay, I gotta take this out. I can't, I can't even talk before we get started. Thank you. Yeah. I need everyone out there in the chat who's watching right now to go down into the comments section and let us know the crypto projects. Maybe even specifically the dog coins you are looking at this week, what are you trading?

Let us know so we can take a look at it. Uh, and then while you're down there, make sure to smash the like button. So, uh, everyone else can find this content easier. We could grow the moon or bus family. Uh, and also if you're here for crypto content, there is the Benzinga crypto YouTube channel. We're starting some exciting new shows, uh, over there, hopefully next week.

So subscribe if you're not already a, and also if you're new, we appreciate you tuning in welcome to the fam uh, subscribe to the main channel. If you're not, and you can join the Mooner bus community on telegram for a 25% off discount code on the moon or bus swag as always make sure to connect with us on Twitter right there.

We're doing a giveaway of $50. Uh, NFT conference put on by queen gecko. Uh, we're giving away tickets and both of us. Oh yeah, no good point. We are going to be hosting pedals there, uh, at coin gecko con. So make sure you guys go check that out on, on Benzinga Twitter as well, retweet and follow us both for a chance to win.

Uh, okay. So we're going to be on at that conference, Logan. I forgot I'm doing like the NFT music industry panel. Okay. So I'm doing the metaverse panel. I'm really excited for I'm doing Anna mocha brands and this guy is absolutely insane. He sold a cloud computing company to IBM in 1998. Then he played the apple app store in like 2010, had like 15 different apps in the top 100 and apple actually deep platform to him.

So after he got the platform, he went really hard on blockchain based games. He funded private rounds from ECC, infinity decentralized and open seat. So I am so excited for that. Quite the sales pitch. Ron, you got lucky on that interview. Uh, I'm actually not too sure about my guests yet, but I will update you guys.

So make sure you guys go check out Ryan's metaverse panel. That's pretty dope. And then maybe I don't think Chris signed up, so maybe we can get the econ panel too. That'd be cool. Just a little something, something. Okay. Let me share my screen. Uh, and we can take a look at the markets. So as always, we're starting with Bitcoin and Ethereum, and then we'll go over and look at the Dogecoin.

So what do you think? Sounds like a plan. Sounds like a plan. I don't even know if we have to do Bitcoin today. Uh, Let's just start off with our new, all time high sweet baby eith. Uh, here we have the one minute candles and you can see here just a couple hours ago. We hit this new all time high at $4,470.

Drop a comment in the chat. If you're an eighth bag holder, uh, let us know what's up. We've been following eith for way too long. So if you guys have been watching, hopefully you got in early. Uh, let's see, what else do we have here? I have to, to get some new tabs open, let's pull up coin market cap, uh, and maybe we can zoom out on Eve.

Yeah. One as much as I love one minute candles. I think that one hour in daily candles probably tell a better story, especially with that beautiful triangle. You true? Here's your story, Ryan? Why don't you tell. I mean, you drew that triangle, but I mean, I can, I can do my best. So it looked like we went up, we had a previous resistance there maybe right around $4,000, which seemed like a psychological resistance, which we were able to break through.

I think this, uh, this was a pretty good triangle Logan, because we did break up above it and it looks like we did hold it. So congrats to you for those lines in the sand. It looks like it did work out so far. We'll see if we can hold it. I mean, I think the markets are really bullish right now. I think there's a lot of new attention in crypto because of all these dog coins.

So I think that we're probably going to hold above it. And I think, you know, it's interesting because usually Bitcoin leads the way with Ethereum and it did to a degree, you know, Bitcoin hit a new all time high, but we really see the mania with these dog coins right now, which usually comes later on in the cycle once, you know, Bitcoin and Ethereum really rips.

So we'll see what happens. But I think it's a bullish thing though, because a lot of these people buying the dog coins are new to crypto

If you guys, uh, are looking at the dug coins this weekend, while you're down there, if you're just tuning in, make sure to hit the like button, do us a solid well pirate coin. How's it going? Doing? Let's find out what is pirate coin, right? Oh, it's a revolutionary new cryptocurrency on the, I just started and it's on coin market cap actually.

And it has actually decently large market capitalization. I forgot exactly how much to start this for a quick pirate coin. Argh. I'm the CEO of pirate coin. Can't you tell what is this shit, bro? So fully diluted market cap of $37 million. I mean, not bad for a day's work I really had to do was put on an eye patch, a hat and get to coding.

Uh, you know, it's on finance smart chain. My favorite blockchain to make tokens on the slippage is only 7.9% or seven to 9%. I can't read well with the iPad. Oh, my God. Right? This is a pretty nice website that you threw together this morning. Thanks. I actually hired someone on Fiverr to do it. Oh yeah.

Good, good idea. Got outsource. Everything. Exactly. Uh, and full disclosure. This is a joke. Ryan did not actually make this coin or did he looks like I made it fall and crack, right? He's the CEO of Bitcoin. I am the CEO of pirate coin. There is no debate. Can you tell the CEO of Bitcoin to send the price up?

Yeah, let me just add such Craig. Okay. Let's see what happens if we type the new into wait, what? Come on. I want all the news Chico. He knew I have not heard of that one yet. I know. That's the new wave, bro. It's the Sheba. Floki safe. Moon killer.

Okay. So on a real note, let's actually take a look at our favorite dog coins here. So what should we start with dojo? Yo, you can sort by meme coins now on coin market cap, doesn't have all the good ones. I saw a filter. It doesn't have the coin on it. Damn. I don't even know how to do it. Actually. I just saw that you could watch lists portfolio.

I would think it would be down by cryptocurrencies where categories defies NFT is. Oh, I see. I see. I see. Maybe there's another filter you can use. Ah, Frick, man. What the heck?

How do I coin market cap filters? Come on baby. All right. This might be a lost cause. Yeah, I think we should just use trading before it. I think shading view should have at least she, but you knew in Floki at this point. If not, we could maybe try and use Q coin or something.

The other categories, doggone dog. I don't even know what this means. Is this all the dog coins? Oh, we got it. We got it. We got it. We got it. All right. Here are all of the dog coins in the top dog position we have Sheba knew right now, ripped past doge. Uh, I'm curious to hear what you guys out there. Think about the flipping.

Okay. This was a meme that was going on all year long. She was going to flip doge is the doge coin killer personally. I didn't think it would actually happen, but I was wrong. And I'm here to admit that today. So drop a comment in the chat. What do you think this means? Uh, you know, for the ecosystem as a whole, you have any big picture ideas, Ryan, what do you think about the flip ending?

I think it's ridiculous. I did not see this coming whatsoever. Dumbfounded when I saw it, I knew it was going up fast. I saw it past chain-link and it was like the 15th largest cryptocurrency. I wasn't sure how much higher it could go from there. I already had over a $10 billion market cap and it happened, I mean, I thought doge would probably be going up with Sheba when this all took off, but it's really lacked behind it's down 10% today, only up 21% on the week.

Uh, so I mean, I'm very surprised Shiva did that, but congratulations to all you Shiba Inu holders out there, you did it. You flipped doge. Now all that's left is to flip Bitcoin. And then after that you can reach 1 cent. Um, man, do you think that this suggests that Eve kid flipped Bitcoin. I don't know if it's just, it might be, it might be a reach, but I still think that theorem could flip Bitcoin this market cycle.

I've said it before. I'm not sure if it's more likely than not. I think it's probably less likely than not, but I think it's still a possibility of Ethereum could flip Bitcoin this market cycle. But yeah, I don't know with all these stock coins, if that's really telling of like an incumbent, being able to be flipped by a new entrance into the market, but it's certainly possible.

We saw it with Sheba. You knew let's see it with Ethereum. That would be the day we'd have to throw a Mooner bus party live in Detroit when Ethereum flips Bitcoin and everyone out there is invited as long as you smash the like button. Uh, okay. So why is Floki news down here so far? I thought Floki would be bigger.

I did too. I mean, that's kind of, kind of interesting. It's a $2 billion market cap. How there's no way that that's. Yeah. See, it's not yeah. Coin market cap, rinks or coins kind of oddly, because just because it's self-reported or something. Yeah, that'd be a good guess. I think what the heck, man, what happened to my dog coin filter folky.

And he has been going crazy though. It's up 43% today over the week. It's like 200%. So again, congratulations to my Floki new holders out there. Uh, we did a show on them a few weeks back. I said, I wasn't going to be investing in, I guess I missed out, but Hey, I mean, it is what it is. You really float up or.

Good one, Logan. Thanks, man. You could see here that, uh, the reason it's so far down on coin market capitalist is because it has that self-reported market cap. So it's actually worth $2 billion, which places it in the third biggest dog coin spot, right above DOH. Jalon Mars. Uh, I've. Haven't heard of this.

Some Moya, some weighted coin or safe moon. He knew we need to get, we need to write some articles on these okay. Yeah. That dojo on Mars, man. That's been getting so much attention lately, really out of nowhere, I guess it's just due to Sheba new, but it is up like crazy as well. We see 70% in one day we're in buffet could never, and 185% over the past week.

So absolutely ridiculous returns right now. Dogecoin mania, for sure. How long do you think this is going to last Logan? I think we're pretty close to the top of this. You know, I think that that Sheba is probably close to the top. I think it's probably doge coins turn now. So, uh, I don't know. Uh, it's, it's an interesting thing because like maybe Sheba has more room for money to flow into it because it's based on Ethereum, whereas doge coins like its own blockchain.

So it's like a single use case, but, but Sheba, uh, could continue to, you know, get that other money from Ethan due to imagine. Imagine if open, see ads, Sheba, uh, to purchase NFTs. That would be ridiculous. But I think that's extremely unlikely. Um, I mean they only have one area wrapped Ethereum and polygon is on open seat right now and probably gonna make sense because they use polygon for their layer two solution.

And then of course, if your mic is to buy NFTs yeah. There's also di and USB-C oh yeah. And, and like if Coinbase accepted all cryptos for, for NFTs, then, you know, I think that it would probably just push everyone else to do it. You know, like only one person has to do it and I don't see why not. Like, it seems like a fine idea to me.

So Sarah Russell out there in the chat says, where can you buy Floki? Uh, so I dropped the link to our money site, article, how to buy Floki new, go check it out there. Uh, and also we got a promo going on with, uh, fi $5 in free ship. If you sign up with VBL yeah. Should have signed up last week. It would be like $20 in free ship.

Now don't miss out. Don't sleep. Go check it out. Okay. So any other dog coins you guys are looking at in the chat? Uh, or Ryan, do you want to take a look. Yeah. Can we take a look on trading view and look at it? Maybe she be anywhere at least. And then if anyone else wants to see other dog coins that are on trading day, we could look at those as well.

Probably unit swap would be your best bet. Well, that works too. Now for something like this, we should probably not use daily Canada, not the hourly candles. That looks good. That's crazy. Literally this is one week. Look at this volume. Oh my God. Yeah. Oh, and it looks like, okay, I'm going to draw some more fake lines here, but look what we see.

Look what we see. We see this, this triangle forming here. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Something like that, right. And it's broken out of it. It's broken up actually. Is that bullish? Yeah. I mean, I would say it broke out even sooner. If you connect the previous local tops, then in say even Seper line, and then we are broken out.

Like if you go even further to the left, look into those other local tops, but either way now we are seeing higher lows and higher highs, which is typically a bullish signal. Again, these are only the hourly candle, so it's kind of hard to trade based on them. I know a lot of people do anyway. Uh, but we could see another leg up.

It's it's pretty hard to tell at this point, I mean, so many people have made a hundred percent or more on their investment. I'm sure a lot of people are trying to take some profits at this point, but at the same time everybody's talking about it. Right. And now it's available on Etro it's available on weeble and Coinbase.

So many new investors have access to Shiva. You knew that didn't have access during the first pump back in may.

I just had an idea and then now it's gone. What a, what a man, just like that. Um, what about, uh, the, oh yeah, yeah, yeah. So what about that guy who made possibly the greatest trade of all time? $8,000 invested in CBE new last year is now $5 billion, but the thing is this wallet address has not taken a single bit of profits yet, and only a crazy person would sit through $5 billion of gains without taking any profits.

Okay. So you could buy the most expensive yacht in the world and still have billions leftover. So I think that that the private key is lost to this wallet is lost. What do you think? I agree. Yeah. I mean, there's almost no way, right? Unless you have the most diamond hands out of any investor in the entire world.

It's really cool to see though. I think it would be considered the best trade of all time throughout all of economic history in $8,000 to $5.6 billion in about a year. It's absolutely ridiculous. But like you said, he didn't take any profits and you have to remember, like throughout this whole year he had millions of he or she had millions of dollars and then it turned into billions of dollars and then it turned into several billions of dollars.

So I do think he lost his private seed. It is possible that they're just holding onto it though. I would love to see them take. And to confirm that they didn't actually lose their seat. But I think at this point with so many people speculating that they did lose their private seed, they would probably, you know, like sell a little bit or move something into the wallet to show that they still have access to that wallet.

So, yeah, I think more likely than not, they probably put that $8,000 into Shiba Inu their seed phase. And now there's $5.6 billion worth of Shiba Inu in a lost wallet. This reminds me of those Bitcoin miners back in the day who also their computer or their wallet with hundreds of million on it. Same feeling.

Yeah. Uh, okay. So on that note of crazy crazy trades, we saw a crypto punk sale last night that broke Twitter. I'm trying to find it right now. Uh, uh,

Ron, you want to tell us a little bit about this, this crypto punk say. Yeah, so I'm pretty sure it was so be right, Logan, it was Sobe who bought it. I don't. Was it soapy? I'm pretty sure it was. Um, I thought it was someone else. Loon luck also tweeted. It was his, but he was meaning I think it was Sobe on Sophie owns a ton of me bets, I think like 250 plus me bits and also has a crazy collection of crypto punks, which I think is in the hundreds.

Uh, Basically here, what people are speculating and you can see it on chain. So this is actually what happened. Uh, this guy got a flash loan with crypto that he was able to buy this crypto punk from himself and then payback the loan all within one block to make this record sale. So this isn't a legitimate sale per se.

It's not money laundering, but at the same time, it is I think, to just create some hype around crypto punks right now, the previous highest sale was an alien, which makes sense because there's only nine alien crypto Ponts and those sold for $9 million. Now this one, the white hair is cool. You know, Hayden Adams, founder of slap uses a crazy white haired crypto punk on his sturdier profile picture.

It's a pretty rare trait, but it's not worth anywhere. $500 million maybe close to a million, but definitely not 500 million. Uh, but they pumped the market to a degree. I think I wasn't really paying attention to the floor, but I noticed just a few minutes after this happened, somebody played $87 million bids across the board for the alien punks, but those have since been withdrawn.

So I think that the person realized, you know, this guy had a flashlight and bought the punk from it himself. It wasn't a legitimate sale. And then withdrew those bids because they didn't feel comfortable spending $90 million and having legitimate. Yeah. They withdrew them. I checked this morning, so those bids are not on the table.

Which kind of makes sense. Right? I would be willing if I had the money, I'd be willing to pay $90 million for alien punk. If there is a legitimate sale of a $500 million punk, that wasn't an alien. Uh, but since it wasn't really legitimate, um, they, they withdrew their bids, but no one took them, which is interesting.

They were up for a few hours and those alien punk owners, I mean, they must have saw them write a $90 million bid on their punk and they could have sold, they could have sold, but they did not. So, I mean, that kind of tells me, you're going to have to spend more than $90 million to get an alien punk these days.

I mean, the people holding onto those or holding on to them with diamond hands. Exactly. Exactly. So one person valued all of them at $90 million each and none of them sold, which means the whole there's value them much higher. That's kind of crazy. Uh, so Ryan, why don't you tell us about this little page you put together.

Yeah. So a few months ago I made this crypto punts watch lists. we try and keep it updated, but the markets move super fast. So, you know, DMS on Twitter. If you see someone new, who's famous, get a crypto punk, we'll add them to this watch list. But we created this to track all of these famous people who now own crypto punks, and usually, almost all of them use it them as their Twitter profile picture.

So that's pretty cool to see, uh, who someone else just added a crypto punk into Jordan. Jordan Belfort. Yeah. We got to add to add him to the list. Um, but yeah, check out this page. It's a really cool. And did you see that little baby now has support? Hey, did he tweet anything out about it or did he just do that?

Yeah, he didn't tweet anything out about it yet, which is sad. I wanted to retweet it, but we see a little, baby's got the baby board eight. Yeah, nothing, nothing yet, as far as an announcement from the slime himself, but we do see his PFE has changed. And while it may seem like, like a little baby is not really like a, it doesn't, it doesn't seem like that big of a deal.

I think that little baby's influence within the rap community is actually very big and it will do a lot to, uh, you know, influence the, a lot of like serious collectors potential buyers. We also see, you know, Jay Z of course has it too. So, uh, it's clearly spreading very quickly. Uh, and I think that this is actually very cool.

I think that it's gonna going to help the market grow a lot.

So Logan, do you want to take a look maybe at Floki anywhere, some of these other dog coins that are giving Sheba a run for it? Yeah. So I don't even know if they're on trading view though. I ain't check. See if they're on trading view. Floki new, bro. We have to set up an interview with them. We do. Yeah, we're getting, we're going to be having Floki knew someone from the team, come on, moon or bust, uh, pretty soon here.

So make sure you guys are subscribed if you're not already. So you can catch that episode as well. All right. So here is Floki. These hourly candles are kind of ridiculous. Yeah, it hurts, man. It hurts. It does, it does hurt a little bit. So what is this like a maximum of six to three. It's like a five X in the course of two, three days.

It's approaching a 10 X it's approaching a 10 X four zeros. Yeah. It's at like five X right now. All right. Yeah, I guess so. That's crazy though. $2 billion for the Floki meme. You think that that meme is good enough for a $2 billion market cap? I mean, if she be new, has a market cap of $50 billion, the relative valuation of Floki could be argued that it's undervalued.

Yeah, exactly. Is Floki EU undervalued. Let's let's see in the chat guys, what do you think is Floki new under valued? I certainly think it's not undervalued, but you know, we all have differing opinions. Yeah. I mean, personally, that's not the type of thing that I want to have in my portfolio necessarily, but like, Hey, gains are gains at the end of the day.

All right. So stacking nine millimeters in the chat says check out quiche. He knew. Uh, and let's see how big is Kesha compared to the other world? It's maybe it's not listed.

Jonathan. I see your comment in the chat. Yeah, there is pretty high charges on Floki. They do have a reflection fee, uh, which both organized, we aren't very big fans of any tokens that have reflection fees. The token Nomics really don't check out for long-term sustainability. So definitely do your research on reflection fees, what they actually are, but yes, it is very expensive.

So it's a 8% transaction fee for every time you buy or sell the token. So for example, if you decide you want to invest a thousand dollars in the Floki email, they will charge you $80 upon the first transaction when you buy it. So they'll give you $920 out of that thousand year invested, and then say it goes up to a thousand dollars.

Then you have a thousand dollars and you sell it, then you'll have $920. So even if it goes up, you need to make back essentially 16% just to break even. And that money goes to the creators of the coin as well as it gets distributed to other holders of the coin for holding onto. Yeah, exactly. And it is distributed proportional to the other holders position.

So the biggest holders will make all the money, uh, promising little guys, passive income, uh, which I really am not a fan of personally. It just seems kind of slimy, uh, and not in the little baby kind of way. Um, okay. So any other coins out here in the chat, Jonathan says anyone attempted to FOMO in, what do you think.

I've had a few friends who have FOMO in over the past couple of days. I certainly haven't. I mean, if I were to be buying his claims, I think it would be during a bear market. And it would be with a hundred or $200 to speculate that maybe they'll moon again, during the next bull market. Damn Raza was the actually turns out the one who made that $5 billion.

But someone broke his laptop. So now it's gone. That's all run out, pouring out for the older as Floki is going to 1 cent. Let's see if that makes any sense. Okay. Yeah. See what the implications are of Shiva EDU, going to a penny. We actually, oh, Floki not Sheba. Okay. Okay. So we need to, maybe we have to do analysis on this, a fair money article like we do with Sheba.

Okay. So it needs a three X to get to a 10th of a cent, and then we need the 10 X from there. So it's like a 30 X. So it's market cap would go from 2 billion to $60 billion, uh, putting it well above Shiba Inu, and let's see where it would land on the list of actual, I mean, uh, not so much fun, memes, less fun, not dog coins.

Um, man words, Solano then. As the largest cryptocurrency by market cap. So yeah, you never know what happens. Shiba flipped out and now it's the eighth largest cryptocurrency in one sense, it's pretty ridiculous gains, but it's not, not, not impossible. I guess. It's, it's extremely unlikely though. I would not be taking that home to the bank.

That focus is going to 1 cent. I mean, I think we're already pretty close to the top for these dot coins. Yeah, definitely. Don't schedule your Forbes interview yet. Uh, I think that this, the attention is going to move over into Bitcoin and more specifically Ethereum over the next couple of months here. So, uh, I am personally taking profits on my dog coins and moving them into eith.

Um, I just think the risk is too high at this point. Um, but it's always fun to speculate, you know, with just like some small amounts, uh, that you're totally fine with with Lu.

KW 5g. I see you said that they lowered their fees on Nina swept to 3%. That's pretty interesting. I'd be interested to know whether or not they did this for pancakes swap as well. Maybe they didn't because Ethereum charges such high gas fees in the first place that you're already out so much on your investments and I'm Binance smart and you're only paying pennies.

So they think they can justify still charging that 8%. Yeah. I wonder what they took out, uh, whether it was the marketing fee or if it was like the, a redistribution fee, maybe it's just 50, 50, a 1.5% to each of them now.

Uh, you want to do a little bit of NFTs. Do you have any, you want to look at the Mecca verse. NFT is now down to under one E and we saw them up to like seven or eight, just a few weeks ago, which was really interesting to see. Um, I kind of understand, I mean, they minted at 0.2 Eve and then immediately resold for five Eve.

And then they had this whole debacle with their developers being able to see the metadata of the NFTs before they were actually revealed. So they were able to actually rig it, kind of get some of the rare NFTs. Uh, so yeah. Yeah. And, and it's such a new NFT to where there was so much hype behind it. And then it was instantly worth like $25,000 that there was probably a correction waiting to happen.

And then we did see that, especially with all of these other crypto's ripping, right. Danny makes a good point in the chat. The normies are just getting. Uh, yeah, they are definitely just getting in the dog coins, the NFTs, that's bringing them in to the space and then likely they'll kind of figure it out.

Uh, and then, you know, switch over to, to Bitcoin or Ethereum or something like that. Um, maybe even Solana we'll have to see. Uh, but yeah, so Ryan, we see the pudgy penguins floor has fallen down, uh, to finally below where I sold. So I don't feel like paper hands anymore. Congratulations. And I sold that 1.7.

Don't forget it bought for one seven. Yeah. That's, that's a pretty good trade, especially just with my days, right? Yeah. 10 X, my Ethan 11 days. Oh, check it, check it out. Did I ever show you this one? I picked up ski mask. The slump, God Daiichi. Somehow it was available. That's pretty cool. You can pick up metadata youth.

Oh, my God, whoever has metadata Eve, they better not sell it. They can get so much from Zack. What's your take on that whole thing with Facebook now being a metaverse company? Oh, that's a great question. Um, I think it's bullish for this space in general. Uh, I kind of feel like Facebook's going to try to make some like Sims type game.

Uh, that's like a social media Sims crossover platform. Um, but yeah, I think it will be bullish for NFTs in general. I mean, there's people figuring out more about blockchain becoming more interested in their online presence, uh, will be good for the PFPs and all sorts of NFTs. Uh, but let us know what you think in the chat.

What do you think about Facebook changing their name to meta and spending dropping $10 billion, uh, building a metaverse game. You have any thoughts on that end? Yeah. Do you think Facebook's actually going to be implementing blockchain into their Meadows because they really don't have to, right. Like Facebook is already kind of considered a metaverse and so it was Fortnite and some of these other VR games, they don't necessarily need to use blockchain.

And I think that like the, the notion that the metaverse and blockchain is like very strongly intertwined, it's only really a narrative we see within the blockchain community, which I think it does make sense, but I think the normal person still doesn't really relate the metaverse and blockchain together.

I think that Facebook is trying to target the younger generation once again, that's what the duck said himself. And so I think that, uh, you know, obviously they're, they'll try to keep it as centralized as possible, but if they want to attract the crypto natives, uh, the people like us, they're going to need to let us bring our board apps and they're going to need to let us bring our NFTs over, uh, I, I definitely see both sides of the, of the coin here.

Uh, no pun intended, but I think Facebook would create their own chain if they did it and then try to have it bridged, um, with other chains. But we actually have an expert and I want to hear his take on it. So from the pastel NFT, blockchain, we have Anthony, uh, welcome to Mooner bust Anthony, how you doing today?

Doing great. How you doing? Doing well. Nice to see

our Halloween episodes a day. So excuse Ryan's appearance, but Anthony, I'm curious to hear your take on the Facebook, uh, metaphor. Yeah, totally. I mean, look, it's one of those things. I don't know, actually I was on a clip yesterday with NBC, just talking through it. Um, Ryan, you kinda made a good point there.

You know, Facebook's really been in this space of, you know, reality labs for quite some time. Um, so I do think it was kind of a penultimate moment. That's been leading up to this space. Think about obviously some of their acquisitions, some of their internal R and D as it pertains to wearables headsets, things like that.

Um, they've been making these kinds of steps for years now to get to this point in time. Um, and you know, if you really think about it, frankly, The concept of a metaverse, you know, Ryan, you alluded to it, um, away from kind of crypto natives is something that I think is kind of innate and quite native.

Generally speaking, I think about how much time we spend on our phones. Think about how much time we spend on Instagram, right. In these kinds of, you know, quasi, um, virtual realities already. So, um, I think it definitely makes a ton of sense. And one of the things that stay too is, you know, Facebook compared to a lot of the other big tech companies itself, um, doesn't necessarily have, you know, quite.

Monopolistic moat, um, or, you know, pure barrier to entry against, you know, it's underlying core product offering, right. And in the form of social media suites. So it's constantly had to innovate. It's constantly had to basically, um, you know, be a little bit more dynamic. Um, it's done that historically through a number of different acquisitions and whether through WhatsApp or a handful of other platforms.

Uh, but I think this is really kind of a natural stepping stone. Um, and it will be interesting to see, we haven't, I haven't seen anything from, um, you know, mark or Facebook directly. That's talked about how they might, you know, bridge this idea of kind of interoperability across existing blockchain suites.

Um, so it'll be exciting to see how this shakes out in the next few months. Most definitely, uh, harsher S in the chat just gave us two bucks. Thank you. Uh, we will take a look at ICP after the interview. Um, but Anthony, uh, could you tell us a little bit about pastel and what your mission. Yeah, absolutely.

Um, so pastels started back in 2018 and we've really grown to be a preeminent protocol standard for the NFT space. And you know, what I, what do I really mean by that? Um, obviously the way that you look at NFTs now and the general marketplace is I'd say the broader landscape is you have a number of different, uh, platforms and marketplaces that are geared towards different aspects, you know, ranging from digital collectibles to gamification.

Uh, then you have kind of technologies around, you know, liquidity pools. Um, you have obviously fractional ownership, sharding, et cetera, in a variety of thousands. Um, where we said is actually kind of on the flip side of that in terms of, you know, how can we actually build some of that core infrastructure to really power the NFT marketplaces and the broader entity community forward over the next several years?

And so we're actually completely, um, fully purpose-built dedicated layer, one blockchain. Um, we've been built from the ground up, um, to basically, you know, solve a lot of the Nate and Nate problems of the broader entity, you know, ecosystem, high transaction fees, network congestion, you know, downtime, et cetera, but simultaneously to also be able to offer a series of different applications, specific features, um, such as our storage as, you know, storage protocol.

Right. Uh, there's a huge problem in the NFP space, just in terms of actually how you, you know, tightly coupled the data that you're acquiring with the actual smart contract standard itself. Um, so we have a really interesting, you know, fully distributor. Fully permanent lossless storage protocol. That's built directly on top of pastel and we have another feature called sense, which is our new duplicate NFP detection protocol.

And that assesses the level of rareness and an existing NMT relative to all other NFTs and the actual data set itself. Um, so that could be used to help protect against copyrights, scam issues, things like that. Um, and so, you know, long stories. You could think about pastel as being, you know, really kind of this preeminent protocol standard, um, whether you're kind of a third-party marketplace, another layer, one blockchain, you know, whether you're you, you're basically a commercial enterprise, you can launch a marketplace directly on top of pastel, any sort of NFT DAP.

You can leverage our API APIs, you know, via lightweight integrations to basically, you know, rely on our storage to rely on our duplicate detection. Uh, we just had a couple of artists on open, see actually, uh, basically as part of their smart contract, they sent their NFTs directly to pastel to be stored, to leverage or duplicate detection.

And those NFTs are actively trading on the Ethereum blockchain, but you know, the proof of store lives on pastel. If that makes sense. Very interesting. So would you say you're more business facing or retail? Um, you know what, it's, it's a bit of both. Those are two very, very different go-to-market strategies, but, you know, we've been focused really on kind of that, um, you know, B2B strategy around going out and getting a lot of different, you know, partnerships and strategic integrations with the existing layer, one blockchains with the existing marketplaces and with a broader community.

It's super exciting to see what's happening right now. And I'd say the spaces highly collaborative, uh, just talking with different groups, talking with different, um, you know, teams and foundations and whatnot, and basically kind of just powering, you know, using our technology to help propel and power sort of aspects of the community.

It's super exciting. Uh, but you know, back to your point, there's also general network effects that, you know, come from that as well. So over time, there will be kind of more of a consumer facing strategy to, you know, our own marketplaces and our own applications. Very interesting. Uh, so could you tell us a bit about the history of the company of the project?

Um, how long have you been working on it and have you done any fundraising so far? Yeah, absolutely. So just for some quick context, I'm actually a partner in a fund called innovating capital. Um, so we're basically a venture capital technology fund. Um, I help run the crypto book there. Um, and so I met the CEO of pastel, um, Jeff Emmanuel back in 2018 out of crypto conference and basically was quickly drawn to, you know, his vision.

Right. He had a massive vision about the problems, you know, no one was even talking about. Back then. Right. But he was talking about the innate problems, the lack of actually, you know, permanent technology technology that was purpose-built running run teas, and basically had this kind of grand vision of building this from really the ground up.

So we started to incubate it almost immediately. Uh, and then over the past year or so, I've kind of stepped in on a full-time basis. Um, just helping running a lot of the day-to-day operations strategy, et cetera. And so, yeah, we've been operating in stealth, um, for the last few years, came out of stealth earlier this year, um, launched the main net.

We've been watching kind of a series of protocols, you know, since then, um, and then innovating capital, uh, plus a handful of other, you know, kind of, uh, smaller investors have put in close to about seven and a half million bucks so far total in terms of funding. Really cool. So what kind of benefits do you creators and buyers get from using pastels network over other blockchains like Ethereum and maybe smart chain or so on?

If you could touch on one of those. Yeah, totally. So, you know, if you think about it right now, right. When you go on to, you know, a Salada or an Ethereum or one of these existing platforms, right. Um, have you, I mean, basically there's a couple ways to do it. You could leverage kind of open sea or one of these existing marketplaces and, you know, they're back in, you know, smart contract deployment structure and things like that.

But at the end of the day, you're going to run into obviously the idea of having to pay an exorbitant amount of high fees. Right. Just in terms of, you know, if you saw what happened yesterday with, you know, uh, the Sheba coin and whatnot, just kind of the network congestion that we saw, um, you have pending transactions for hours, you know, you basically had, you know, certain transactions that were costing hundreds of flats and thousands of bucks just to meet the specific and uptight.

So for a creator or a collector, who's just starting to come into this space. They're not a crypto native. They don't necessarily know how to buy Ethereum on Coinbase and then set it to their Mehta mask account and then change gas fees. And then, oh, I have a pending transaction. So I have to update the known say so I can basically, you know, clear it out and get this transaction and go through.

It becomes super complicated, right? Just from a pure tech perspective. So, you know, by leveraging pastel the core advantage more than. Is that we kind of obstruct away a lot of those underlying issues because we're built specifically for an FTS, right? When you mentioned NFT on, on pastel, you're not getting in line, you're not getting in a queue of, of basically thousands of other applications that are focused on, you know, defy or, um, insurance or whatever.

Right. You don't have to necessarily compete with somebody who wants to basically lend me out 500, you know, loan 500 million bucks off of compound, right. In the form of beef and this and that. Right. So basically you get a more reliable, sustainable, um, and just kind of, you know, cheaper blockchain itself.

Right. But then you get all those specific features that I talked about when you upload an NFC on pastel, um, you know, our storage protocol, it takes that file. Whatever the data is to be a video, it could be a minimum, you know, a metaverse object, whatever it might be. It takes that file, chops it up into a bunch of little blocks, copies those blocks, and then randomly distribute those blocks across every single SuperNote on the network.

So you basically, you know, it's pay once store. So you get this also this permanent storage solution that's completely distributed, completely decentralized. And you know, right now, if you buy a smart contract or NFC on another platform, like a theory or Solano, you go to the token, you are, I feel that you might have a hyperlink to a centralized, you know, Amazon S3 bucket, right.

You might rely on some sort of IPFS pin, right? So there's a number of innate problems too, that just exist with persistent storage. And then you kind of get that level of assurance in terms of the pure rarity. Right? If I registered something on pastel, I'm going to get assigned basically this, um, authenticity score from zero to a hundred percent.

You know, we take the NFT, we leverage a handful of different, um, deep learning methodologies using advanced computer vision to take that NMT and transform it into a string of numbers for 10,000 plus digits. Right? Then we compare that digit or that vector of. Which we call the fingerprint of the NMT itself against every single other fingerprint on the system on collaborative platforms, like open seat and basically on just kind of the open web itself.

And then we assign basically a very clear score from zero to 100% that basically defines how rare something is. So if you're a creator, you have kind of the assurity that, Hey, I know I'm going to get basically, you know, almost awarded or basically, you know, um, signal that, Hey, this is super rare. I created this right.

And as a, as a collector, I might be willing to pay more or pay a premium for something that I know it's super rare versus something that's just, you know, a rip off of an existing punk or something like that. If that makes. Yeah, totally. We'll feature Logan. And I have a quick follow-up question for that before you ask your next question, but do you think Anthony, there is a way for people who will create NFTs to almost play that rarity score, like create something that looks nothing like anything else just to have a high rarity score, because there are a lot of projects that look similar, but I mean, could you speak to that maybe a little bit?

Hey Ryan, Simon, I cut out there for a second. I'm gonna repeat the question. Yeah, yeah. Sure thing. So I'm just wondering for the people who create NFTs and they see this rarity score, would it be possible for them to essentially make something with the goal of having a high rarity score? Like that looks nothing like anything else, just to be able to get that high rarity score to hopefully get more value out of buyers a hundred percent.

I definitely think so. Right. I mean, And if you're a creator, I think generally speaking, not always the objective, but I think I'm a big objective of certain creators is to build something that is highly rare. That's super rare that has never been seen before. Right. Um, you know, if it is kind of an altercation, you know, or an alteration of something else, you know, they might still get a higher revenue score.

Right. Because it is, you know, completely altered and whatnot. So, but I definitely think that, you know, many creators, um, or are willing to basically take the time to actually create something super rare. And on the, on the flip side, I think collectors are potentially, you know, willing to spend more, um, it's a pay more if there is this kind of level of rareness associated with the underlying NFT.

Interesting. Anthony. So is this time-based so say, uh, as more people create punk copies, the rarity score of the punks, the original punks won't go down, will it exactly. Exactly. Exactly. And it's actually also just, what's important to understand too, is this on the collection level? Right? So if you have 10,000.

Crypto punks, right? The way it generally works is, you know, we do the whole fingerprint vector thing. Um, and we put that fingerprint into the dataset and then the next one gets compared to the entire data set. So it is time-based based off the sequence of blocks, but one collection, you know, you're not going to compare one pump versus the other.

Right. Um, the series of, of the original X amount of punks are all going to be basically ranked a similar level of rareness, right. Just relative to that pump versus, um, any sort of data that existed at that point in time. Very cool. And so you mentioned that the, uh, the data storage and the blockchain is completely decentralized and distributed.

Uh, could you talk to the level of that maybe how many nodes you have or if you use other products to decentralize your data storage? Yeah, I mean, look, so right now, the way that it works is you have general nodes that are running on the network, um, that basically obviously run copies of the ledger themselves and whatnot.

There's about 2000 plus nodes around the world. Um, I think I should probably more right now. Then you basically have the supernodes, which are doing all the same thing, but then also providing for a lot of this extra functionality, right? So you stink 5 million PSL. You run a supernode yearning kind of a high powered client that has both a specific amount of compute and storage capabilities.

And there's a hundred plus supernodes running around the world. Um, right now, you know, between the U S Asia, Europe, et cetera. That's really impressive. You know, again, the whole, the whole idea is to always be, you know, if, if any blockchain besides Bitcoin or Ethereum tells you they're fully decentralized today, um, I would definitely kind of shy away from that, but the general idea is, Hey, are we putting every single piece in place that pushes us on this path of, of sufficient decentralization, right.

And has everything equipped right now. Right. You know, Logan, you decide, you want to basically go acquire 5 million PSL and run a supernode. You can nothing's stopping you. You can go do that tomorrow, right? Um, yeah. You know, and there's also a lot of other kind of core functionalities to consistent storage challenges, right?

Where basically random supernodes are, you know, looking at random supernodes and kind of almost inspecting what they're doing. Hey, is this SuperNote doing what it's supposed to be doing? Or is it acting maliciously on work? And if it is, we basically have this like reputation scoring that, you know, tracks.

And if you get X amount of times where you're doing something religiously, you're kicked off the network where your IP is banned. Um, so kind of having these, you know, fully decentralized functions are really important just in terms of, you know, getting on that path of, you know, pure, sufficient decentralization.

That's a great answer. And we do have a question in the chat from Jonathan he's asking. So could there be a sacrifice on the art standard for the rareness score? That was kind of what I was getting at earlier. I guess art's really subjective. So I would say maybe the market would just decide that itself.

Uh, Anthony. Yeah. I mean, look, it's, it's one of those things where you could use this tool. So certain companies are using this for certain, you know, different things. Right. So for example, if you're concerned that someone's just completely copying your punk, right. And you know that if someone completely rips it off, it's going to have, you know, kind of a, a score of 1%, right?

Why would a monitor anything that's less than 5% and flag it basically maybe expect, inspect it a little bit more, you know, how similar is this to something else? And so I can actually go look and say, Hey, you know what, here's the output of the code. It's telling me that it's, you know, almost identical to this.

I go look at that file, et cetera. So you can leverage it in different ways to be more kind of like an audit function where I'm not necessarily just looking at something for the sake of. Paying more for, you know, something that's 95% rare. Right. You could also on the flip side, have a relatively, you know, kind of reasonable threshold, anything that's greater than 75% is going to get this, you know, super rare, you know, certification.

Right. But I, I totally get it. Right. Art is very subjective. This is just more of an additional tool or functionality that can be leveraged in a variety of different ways. Okay. Yeah. That makes sense. Interesting. Oh, there he goes. Can you hear us? Yeah. Can you, okay. Awesome. Yep. Sounds good. So, Anthony, can you tell us a little about the PSL token again?

Yeah, absolutely. So the PSL tokens really kind of, you know, the, the oil that runs the entire network, right? Whether that's mincing an NFT, whether that's trading an on a T, whether that's basically paying to use cascade to basically store your, your, um, NFT. Sense to basically run your new duplicate detection service on the NFT itself.

Right? So PSL is really kind of that oil that is needed for every single aspect of the system. Um, so anytime a transaction occurs, there's really a couple of things that take place. You know, one part of that transaction fee is actually distributed to the supernode operators on the network. And then to, um, part of that transaction fee is burnt.

It's sensible, approvable burn address it's taken out of supply. So we have both a kind of, you know, dividend yield component of terms of distributing PSL to the supernode operators on the network and exchange for the services they're providing. And then you kind of have this, you know, kind of quasi share buyback model by taking, uh, you know, the PSL out of supply.

Right. And that's kind of a deflationary mechanic, if that makes sense. So is that mechanic used for all transfers of the token or is only for sales of NFTs, kind of like how open see has that 2.5 or is it 5% royalty fee on, on their end if. Right. And our right. So a couple of things there, right? So on open CFI, if I bind NFT and I, when I sell it, et cetera, open seat is going to take a clip.

Right? This is what I'm seeing is something a little bit different. Um, in terms of, you know, you artists could still say, Hey, I want to collect the 10% royalty. On the NFTE, any time of retreads. But if you think back to how I mentioned, we're structured, where we have a series of different API APIs, right.

Open. So you could decide they want to send all their entities to pastel for storage. They're going to pay basically in the form of PSL, anytime they want a mint, an entity to call that specific protocol. Right. And so that PSL part of that sense of the SuperNet operators who are doing that functionality and then part of that's burnt, if that makes sense.

Okay. That's really cool. That's it? That's a great solution. And why did you choose to fork from Z cash and remain as a proof of work blockchain with so many like new, newer blockchains being proof of stake? I thought that was an interesting choice. I mean, look, you know, the, the, the pure consensus mechanism starting off as kind of a fork of Z cash at the end of the day, right?

The, it what's the most secure rock, solid foundation in the space. Right. Uh, Bitcoin, you know, we know that from the. Zika being effectively a fork of Bitcoin, but leveraging Equihash, which we thought was a little bit more secure, um, as well as, you know, zero knowledge proofs. Um, we thought that it was actually the best candidate in terms of how to actually start the initial core blockchain itself.

But what's important is this kind of layer of supernodes that sit on top that, you know, actually do a lot of the services, the validation, registration, the activation, all that stuff, you know, the storage, right. Um, that actually then, you know, have almost kind of a somewhat interesting stick component associated with them, gives us this interesting kind of split model, if that makes sense.

Um, and so, you know, from our standpoint, you know, it's super exciting to see what's happening with a lot of the proof of stake blockchains out there. I think that they're better suited, um, for maybe networks that require super high TPS or kind of you networked philosophy. I'm not going to lie to you and say, Hey, we're trying to be the fastest blockchain that exists.

We're not right. Nor do we need to be. That's not necessarily the use case of NFC transactions. Right. You know, do you care if it's going to take you 0.01 second or one second, per se? I don't know. Probably not. Right. You know, if you're paying less, if you're getting all this core functionality associated with it, but it also doesn't have to be because we're not necessarily dealing with, you know, high velocity, high volume financial transactions.

And so for us, we can basically offset some of the, you know, maybe latency associated with proof of work, but get that reliability, get that security and get that kind of rock solid core foundation. Okay. Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. You have some really good points there. And also like a theory wants to do a million different things all across the world, right?

So they really do need to focus on scalability. They need to actually have, you know, 10,000 transactions per second in the future, hopefully with ease too. Whereas you guys, you know, needs a certain amount of scalability, but it certainly doesn't have to be to that degree where proof of stake is necessary.

A hundred percent. So my next question, Anthony is actually about the decentralized apps on pastels network. Could you explain, are these smart contract apps, are these marketplaces that they make through your, your user interface on your website? How does that work? Yeah, no, it's a great question. So they're, they're kind of, they mirror the idea of kind of smart contracts.

So instead of using basically a smart contract standard, we've built our own kind of smart ticket standard. These are super agile, flexible tickets. So take it forward, you know, create NFC ticket for, you know, create collection, right, this and that and whatnot. And we had found this ticket systems, uh, you know, basically be better suited for, um, the way our blockchain is actually built.

Um, so we actually, you know, there's something in Bitcoin transactions called UTX. That was right at the end, the unspent transaction outputs. We can actually leverage something called pay to fake multisig to actually send data via the UTX. So model, right. Uh, and you know, by leveraging Peterrific multisig and kind of our, you know, agile ticket structure, we've created this very interesting, unique approach, um, to basically enabling platforms, to just launch applications, that lodge kind of marketplaces directly on top of us.

Um, and so that's at the core blockchain level, right. But, you know, what's really interesting is the, the actual protocols, the API APIs, et cetera, that interact via RPC directly with the underlying blockchain. So, you know, by plugging in a handful of our API APIs, you can launch anything on top of that stealth and it's going to do all that stuff for you in the backend.

And it's as easy as basically, Hey, you know, send an NFT here, right. And, you know, have it, do all this stuff and then send me back the result. Okay. Hmm. Very cool. Anthony, uh, someone out there in the chat is trying to follow you on Twitter. They say, uh, that it's not working. If you want to, you know, what your Twitter is putting my, uh, yeah.

I just updated that telegram handle. And we do have another question in the chat saying, you know, speed matters. If you're in a competitive NFT mint, is there something else that your network has to really, you know, do something like that with eating on how you can bid, uh, for the, your place? Uh, yeah, I guess if you could speak to that a little bit.

Yeah. In a competitive NFT men, as it pertains to like yeah. Scores, right? Like, like if you're trying to mend something really fast one, right. When it drops and then there's competitive pricing there. Right, right. No, so some of that stuff, right. It's the speed itself. Is something that, you know, you can basically be performing all these functions in your block.

Right. Um, but you know, do you basically, uh, I think there's a little bit of a, kind of a unique differentiator here, right? Because you have kind of that finality of transactions, but you also have kind of the actual, you know, blocks, you know, time per block, per se, and what can actually happen within each block itself.

So, you know, it is actually tracking, um, everything actually to the core, you know, millisecond terms of, you know, Hey, I actually want to place this bit, I want to do this. I want to, um, have the competitive men, et cetera. I was more kind of referencing the point of, Hey, if we're getting to the point of kind of ultra high-frequency where, you know, basically we want to office get the risk of, you know, front running a $2 billion kind of, you know, um, trade and we need to leverage some sort of dark pool.

Right. Uh, you know, pastel is not necessarily that platform. Right. But we're not trying to get to the point where we have 10,000 transactions per second, um, that are just happening on the network at all points. Yeah, NFTs, you know, speed is not an issue whatsoever on pastel. Thanks for clearing that up. So you guys have been operating in stealth mode for basically your whole existence, but now you are out in the public.

What do we have to look forward to from pesto?

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Um, so what's the super exciting what's going on over time down the road, we basically have, you know, a handful of different partnerships of, uh, developments in the works, right? In terms of, you know, whether that's layer one marketplaces, whether that's layer two or layer one blockchains layer, two marketplaces, existing commercial enterprises that are building, launching, deploying themselves directly on top of pastel.

Um, I'd be excited to basically, you know, I'm super excited to, uh, start to announce those and kind of see that happen over the next couple of months. Um, and then we have significant updates in terms of our actual core technology that we're actually building upgrades to our protocols, upgrades, to certain mechanisms, you know, within pastel itself and then the full fledged release and launch of our on-market.

Awesome. Make sure you guys go check out pastel and Anthony on Twitter, connected them to stay up to date. Uh, we appreciate you coming on Anthony. Really great conversation. Hope to have you back again in the future. Awesome. Sounds good. I, thanks guys. Have a good one. Thank you. See ya. All right. So we are just about out of time, but we, uh, um, circling back to ICP, I say a, it could be a really big, really successful project, uh, but check out their vesting schedule.

Uh, so you don't get rubbed by the developers, um, selling off all of their initial shares. That's what happened earlier this year. So maybe it's over, maybe not definitely a promising, but high risk, I'd say. Um, but yeah, yeah. I'll give you my super short take on that too. I was pretty hype when it release, I looked through their docs and whatnot.

It seems super promising. They have a really impressive and really large team behind the coin. Um, but like Logan said, a lot of those coins were vested. They got them for like $2 back, like four or five years ago. At this point it's been in development for a really long time. And a lot of those people probably did.

Profits once it went public. Uh, so that's what they did. Right. And that pushed on the price a lot. And now it's right around 40 to $50 and it hasn't been performing too well. I still think it is a solid project, but it'll be interesting to see where the price goes and how much, you know, these private investors still own.

And like, if they could actually keep pushing this price down or, you know, our retail traders really going to be so hyped to keep buying this up and, you know, drive the price back up to close to a thousand dollars like it was at earlier this year, which I'm not too sure about, but I still think it's a solid $2,800.

Look at this. Sheesh. Yeah. That must've been right when they launched it. Yeah, that is insane. And it's just been, I mean, this looks like a rug, but they have a lot of good, a lot of good stuff going on on their, on their website if it's to be believed. So, um, Definitely some potential. Thanks for the two bucks.

All right, Ryan, that is all we have time for today. Uh, so everyone out there hope you have a great weekend, have a happy Halloween and make sure to stay safe. Crypto markets, this hot it's dangerous. It's dangerous out there. Did you know, nearly all stock price changes of 10% or more result from a single news headline.

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Bitcoin ETFFloki Inu TAGlassnode AnalysisPolkadotThe GraphMoon or Bust - To Play Moon or Bust go to https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrency

Meet The Hosts:

Brian Moir

Solidity and React Developer | Blockchain Enthusiast | Decentralized Internet Advocate | Crypto investor since 2012

https://twitter.com/moirbrian

Logan Ross

Blockchain Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain | Crypto investor and educator since 2016

https://twitter.com/logannross

Ryan McNamara

Bought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | Liquidated on ByBit | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2016 (sorry planet Earth) | $UNI Bag Holder

https://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamara

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Bitcoin ATHProof of BeautyMoon or Bust - To Play Moon or Bust go to https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrency

Meet The Hosts:

Brian Moir

Solidity and React Developer | Blockchain Enthusiast | Decentralized Internet Advocate | Crypto investor since 2012

https://twitter.com/moirbrian

Logan Ross

Blockchain Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain | Crypto investor and educator since 2016

https://twitter.com/logannross

Ryan McNamara

Bought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | Liquidated on ByBit | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2016 (sorry planet Earth) | $UNI Bag Holder

https://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamara

Disclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.

Check Out Other Benzinga Podcasts Here:Check Out All Benzinga Crypto News HereGet Moon or Bust Crypto Merch HereJoin the Telegram:https://t.me/moonorbustBZfor 25% of Moon or Bust Podcast swag.Claim 1000 ZING airdrop: https://www.benzinga.com/zing

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Market AnalysisAltcoins & NFTsLook Out DOGESHIBA INU all time highMoon or Bust - To Play Moon or Bust go to https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrency

Check out Crypto Daily Podcast for daily updates in crypto space in 5 mins or less.

Meet The Hosts:

Brian Moir

Solidity and React Developer | Blockchain Enthusiast | Decentralized Internet Advocate | Crypto investor since 2012

https://twitter.com/moirbrian

Logan Ross

Blockchain Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain | Crypto investor and educator since 2016

https://twitter.com/logannross

Ryan McNamara

Bought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | Liquidated on ByBit | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2016 (sorry planet Earth) | $UNI Bag Holder

https://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamara

Disclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.

Check Out Other Benzinga Podcasts Here:Check Out All Benzinga Crypto News HereGet Moon or Bust Crypto Merch HereJoin the Telegram:https://t.me/moonorbustBZfor 25% of Moon or Bust Podcast swag.Claim 1000 ZING airdrop: https://www.benzinga.com/zing

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Market AnalysisCoinGeckoCon GiveawayWu Tang ExclusiveMoon or Bust - To Play Moon or Bust go to https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrency

Check out Crypto Daily Podcast for daily updates in crypto space in 5 mins or less.

Meet The Hosts:

Brian Moir

Solidity and React Developer | Blockchain Enthusiast | Decentralized Internet Advocate | Crypto investor since 2012

https://twitter.com/moirbrian

Logan Ross

Blockchain Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain | Crypto investor and educator since 2016

https://twitter.com/logannross

Ryan McNamara

Bought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | Liquidated on ByBit | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2016 (sorry planet Earth) | $UNI Bag Holder

https://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamara

Disclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.

Check Out Other Benzinga Podcasts Here:Check Out All Benzinga Crypto News HereGet Moon or Bust Crypto Merch HereJoin the Telegram:https://t.me/moonorbustBZfor 25% of Moon or Bust Podcast swag.Claim 1000 ZING airdrop: https://www.benzinga.com/zing

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Episode Summary:

Market AnalysisVideocoin interview feat. HalseyFloki Inu GiveawayMoon or Bust - To Play Moon or Bust go to https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrency

Meet The Hosts:

Brian Moir

Solidity and React Developer | Blockchain Enthusiast | Decentralized Internet Advocate | Crypto investor since 2012

https://twitter.com/moirbrian

Logan Ross

Blockchain Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain | Crypto investor and educator since 2016

https://twitter.com/logannross

Ryan McNamara

Bought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | Liquidated on ByBit | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2016 (sorry planet Earth) | $UNI Bag Holder

https://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamara

Disclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.

Check Out Other Benzinga Podcasts Here:Check Out All Benzinga Crypto News HereGet Moon or Bust Crypto Merch HereJoin the Telegram:https://t.me/moonorbustBZfor 25% of Moon or Bust Podcast swag.Claim 1000 ZING airdrop: https://www.benzinga.com/zing

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Episode Summary:

Market AnalysisShiba Inu GiveawayEternal Beings NFT ExposedMainstream analysisMoon or Bust - To Play Moon or Bust go to https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrency

Meet The Hosts:

Brian Moir

Solidity and React Developer | Blockchain Enthusiast | Decentralized Internet Advocate | Crypto investor since 2012

https://twitter.com/moirbrian

Logan Ross

Blockchain Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain | Crypto investor and educator since 2016

https://twitter.com/logannross

Ryan McNamara

Bought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | Liquidated on ByBit | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2016 (sorry planet Earth) | $UNI Bag Holder

https://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamara

Disclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.

Check Out Other Benzinga Podcasts Here:Check Out All Benzinga Crypto News HereGet Moon or Bust Crypto Merch HereJoin the Telegram:https://t.me/moonorbustBZfor 25% of Moon or Bust Podcast swag.Claim 1000 ZING airdrop: https://www.benzinga.com/zing

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Episode Summary:

Market Update | Bitcoin, Ethereum, Coinmarketcap | Mekaverse NFT dropShiba Inu $SHIB analysis, shibaswap, Shiba Inu coin news todayFloki Inu???Moon or Bust - To Play Moon or Bust go to https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrency

Meet The Hosts:

Brian Moir

Solidity and React Developer | Blockchain Enthusiast | Decentralized Internet Advocate | Crypto investor since 2012

https://twitter.com/moirbrian

Logan Ross

Blockchain Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain | Crypto investor and educator since 2016

https://twitter.com/logannross

Ryan McNamara

Bought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | Liquidated on ByBit | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2016 (sorry planet Earth) | $UNI Bag Holder

https://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamara

Disclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.

Check Out Other Benzinga Podcasts Here:Check Out All Benzinga Crypto News HereGet Moon or Bust Crypto Merch HereJoin the Telegram:https://t.me/moonorbustBZfor 25% of Moon or Bust Podcast swag.Claim 1000 ZING airdrop: https://www.benzinga.com/zing

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Episode Summary:

Market UpdateInstitutions Swiping Up NFTsDavid Sun POB.Studio InterviewMoon or Bust - To Play Moon or Bust go to https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrency

Guests:

David Sun Proof of Beauty Studios

Check Out Other Benzinga Podcasts Here:Check Out All Benzinga Crypto News HereGet Moon or Bust Crypto Merch HereJoin the Telegram:https://t.me/moonorbustBZfor 25% of Moon or Bust Podcast swag.Claim 1000 ZING airdrop: https://www.benzinga.com/zing

Meet The Hosts:

Brian Moir

Solidity and React Developer | Blockchain Enthusiast | Decentralized Internet Advocate | Crypto investor since 2012

https://twitter.com/moirbrian

Logan Ross

Blockchain Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain | Crypto investor and educator since 2016

https://twitter.com/logannross

Ryan McNamara

Bought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | Liquidated on ByBit | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2016 (sorry planet Earth) | $UNI Bag Holder

https://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamara

Disclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.

Unedited Transcript

What's up zinger nation. My name is Logan Ross, and this is moon or bust your home for all things, all coins and defy. I am coming to you live from Benzinga headquarters in beautiful downtown Detroit, Michigan. Today, the crypto markets are a little bit quiet, but the NFT markets are hot and we'll be covering.

All as well as talking to our friend David's son from the NFT project, proof of beauty, this is a sweet one. You do not want to miss it. Uh, so get out your wrapping paper and put on your best cologne. Cause we're about to learn about proof of beauty's London gift and the London nightclub Dow. Okay. That's why you need your best Cullen in case you were wondering, I am joined today by defy developer, Brian Moore and master of margin, Ryan McNamara.

How y'all felt. Doing good. That was a wicked intro. Logan who a, uh, I think it was the master of margin who wrote that one a hundred percent. How are you doing Logan? I'm doing great. Thank you so much for finally asking. Uh, but I want to know how y'all are doing in the chat. Uh, so let us know, drop a comment right below the like button, uh, Let us know what projects NFT or crypto you are looking at this week while you're down there.

The first link in the description is the Benzinga crypto separate YouTube channel, where all the hot crypto clips will be posted. Uh, also join our telegram for a twenty-five percent off on the sick Buhner bus swag. You can get. BTC had doge hat, whatever, whatever team you're on, whatever you're feeling, uh, you can get 25% off by joining our telegram.

It's that easy? Uh, also we just launched a brand new landing page for moon, our bust with a moon or bust game. Yes, that's right. A game. You can go vote moon or bust on all of your favorite tokens. Uh, the link is in the description as well. So make sure you check it out, go drop your votes and let us know how you're feeling.

Make sure to connect with us on Twitter and our guests as well. All of that is linked in the description below. Um, but with that out of the way, let's get into the news. So I say we start off today talking about Budweiser, uh, buying a Tom Sachs NFT and the beer dot E E N S domain name, uh, Ryan, what do you think about a separate a second company coming into the NFT space, especially the PFP space, uh, after visa bought that crypto punk.

Yeah, I definitely think it's really interesting. And it seems like visa might've been more of a marketing play. I think they put it really well in their tweet, talking about how they, they they've collected financial instruments through the past. So I thought that was really cool. But Budweiser, I think is a little bit different because not only did they get, like you said that Tom sex, rocket factory NFT, but they got ENS domain name, which I think is really.

They actually got to, so they got beer dot Ethan. They got beyond beard at youth. So I don't really follow Budweiser much. I'm not really sure what that beyond beer dot eats would be used for, but yeah, who knows maybe they have something else in the works, but I definitely think that this could really push up the ENS market.

There's probably more speculative investments with these shorter domain names, kind of like the.com bubble. And I think it'll be really interesting to see where this all goes. And if more companies start buying dot youth domain, Not to mention they bought it for 30 eith. Yeah. It was like a hundred thousand dollars.

I wasn't saying that's really cool. Uh, so I don't know. I haven't heard yet, but we saw visa went through a third party to, to, you know, facilitate their transaction. Um, but did buzz, did Budweiser use a third party or did they buy east to do this? I do you guys hear about it? Oh, I didn't do my research on that.

And neither did I it's like, you have to look in, if you guys know, drop a comment and fill us in, uh, otherwise we'll try to figure it out for next time. Um, but yeah, it's cool to see that further adoption. I think that visa might've knocked over the first domino in a long line of corporate NFT plays. Uh, so we'll keep our eyes on that going forward.

Uh, in other news, uh, crypto markets are not doing a whole lot. I'll I'll share coin market cap with you guys here. We could just take a quick peek over the market. See what's up. See what's going on. So we got BTC hovering around 49. Again, we got east back at 3,200 car dynos holding steady, uh, looking for $3 again, soon Binance coins.

The one that's ripping today. That's about it. We've got polka dot. Let's see. What do you guys have on your radars today? Anything in particular? I'm just glad Binance is above 500. Again, I bought, I put some more into my, um, rebalancing and change my values. So I added a lot more BNB when it was at two 70, I mean, uh, four 70.

Okay. Breaking even there. For sure, good day, Mike, you want to let us know what crypto is you're looking at. Maybe we could talk about, um, uh, that goes to everyone else. We got Gavin, Gavin Newsome, good old Gavin, uh, is looking at car Dano. Maybe we'll pull up that chart for a second. Cardona was up 30% on the seven day that is thick.

Uh, and you know, it's in price discovery. Reaching those new all-time highs. We're look for that to continue here shortly. Uh, yeah, let's see. The market cap is $125 billion. That's insane. I guess that's the fully diluted market cap. Maybe it's closer to the, to this number here, the 89 billion still either way.

Ridiculous. Uh, and it's probably only going to get bigger throughout the next couple of months. We will keep our eyes on it for sure. Um, our well about the, um,

The vice president of the global brands of Budweiser, um, their parent company, uh, enhance or Busch InBev said that they're, um, investing in a new NFT media shop run by Gary V. So there are jumping full, full, full in the deep end on this. They really capitalize on the new booming again, booming market, which is pretty cool.

There you go. Another thing I wanted to point out, uh, chain-link Oracle's went live on Solano today. That is pretty cool in my opinion. And I like how chain-link is working with all these different blockchains. Uh, they, they have really got it figured out. Um, okay. But let's jump back to the, to the NFT space.

Maybe we should just talk about proof of beauty, get that going. Or do you guys have any other projects you want to talk about? Really? We should rip her Rooney right? To proof of beauty. All right. Rip Rooney. We shall so back again today on Muno boss is our good friend David's son. David worked on the zero X protocol helps create the macho Dex aggregator.

Uh, and now he started his own NFT project known as proof. Beauty proof of beauty turns blockchain transactions into beautiful pieces of NFTE art. And they recently launched a new limited collection called the London gift that David is here to tell us about. David welcome back, man. How are you? Good, good.

How are you guys doing great. We are happy to have you on to talk to us about London. Uh, we had you on earlier this summer and the audience loved it, uh, for anyone who missed the last episode, um, maybe could you just fill us in on your background, how you joined the crypto space and what projects you've worked on so far?

Yeah, I mean, you already kind of. Summaries, I'm going to fill in the gaps there. Uh, I joined in 2017 during that ICO bubble lost a good change of money during the bear market, uh, but decided to stick around and join zero X protocol as an engineer. And, you know, it was building infrastructure for what is today's defy.

Um, and then at T marketplace, uh, things like what you like the technology, but open seat. It was very much so inspired by, uh, zero X protocol. But, yeah, so a bit the NMT bug, when crypto kitties slow down the eat market, um, back in 2018 and I always wanted to do NFTs, um, and provability kind of was a side project and soon became a full-time endeavor.

And haven't looked back since. I love it. Uh, so before we talk about London, let's do a quick recap, uh, about proof of beauty's first collection, the hash collection. And if you want me to pull up any part of the website, just let. Yeah. Um, I think the best, uh, I guess demonstrator of the project probably will be hash dot POB that studio slash explore or explore page.

Um, yeah. So, uh, hash is the project about collecting history about collecting transaction history, um, on the theory of blockchain, uh, what do we mean by that? Well, it's, uh, you know, We historically, you know, uh, have always collected, uh, Pictures. Uh, we actually tell history like just general history via, uh, arts.

Right? We have oil paintings of the French revolution. We have a war photography of the Vietnam era. We did that, but just the more crypto native way, which is using NFTs as the. Painting that represents a moment of history, uh, on the blockchain. So, uh, you can feed it a transaction, right? Any Ethereum transaction, it could be your spirit first transaction, icky hack.

It could be the largest, it could be the visa sale, right. Or it'll be the purchase of the crypto punk. And then we take all the information within that transaction and. A piece of art, right? Um, and this piece of art, you can also add a title description to kind of describe it. There's a whole lot of interaction you can do there.

Right. And that's kind of a way of telling stories, right. In a very crypto native way. And then there's been a pretty lively, secondary market. People are speculating on what history is very valuable. Right. Um, Yeah, that's, that's hatch. It's kind of like a project to make collecting history, telling stories about crypto fund, hopefully.

Um, and, and, uh, engaging. Yeah, this is awesome. Um, so right now I'm looking at Jay Z's crypto wallet addresses, is that. Uh, I think so I started way, way, way back. I started here. Uh, I found these featured collections. Wait, was it? No, it was down a little bit of login a little down. So Sean Carter right here, view Jason.

Memorable moment. So what you guys did is you found Jay-Z's wallet addressed, found all the transactions and then use their algorithm to turn these into pieces of, of beautiful NFTE art, uh, that we could, I can mint right now for 0.08. Yeah. So these are like unclaimed transactions as, um, But, yeah, so like, just to kind of clarify, the key rule with hash is, uh, one transaction, one MTV.

So if it's the minted, you could only buy it on the secondary market. Right? So there's like this race to the bottom where, you know, when the Lendon hard fork happened, everybody wanted, wanted the very first transition. After the hard fork. Right? So, um, this kind of a fun competitive game at play, um, you know, uh, with a lot of these guys trying to get the best parts of the history.

Hmm. So I'm just pulling up ether scan here, looking into this NFT transaction, the first, uh, seven to one transaction on Jay Z. His address. I'm wondering if this is the punk. It doesn't look like it was, it could have been a transfer from somebody to him, I think. Very cool. And then we have the first Eve inbound.

So what do you think this might. Probably just disguised when I'm in Coinbase and just loaded a crap load of, yeah. Dang. That's cool. And it's, it's still for sale. That's crazy. Uh, I have to pick that up after the show. No one swipe it from me, please. Um, okay. Let me take my screen off and pull up the next question.

So at the beginning of this. Uh, Ethereum successfully launched the EIP 1559 London hard fork. Uh, what is the significance of this in your opinion? Yeah. I mean, I think there's a lot of layers to this. Um, obviously the first one is it, it radically changed how gas, uh, how we carpet gas pricing and, and that, you know, I don't think we have fully realized the benefits of like, you know, lower gas prices from the IP 1559 heart, um, a change, but it definitely radically changes.

Pricings, right? Like there's, it's, it's a lot more predictable. It's, uh, you know, theoretically it's deflationary right. For Eve, which, you know, makes me more of a youth maxi than I was before. Um, you know, and, and that's really all cool. And. You know, men, a mask recently updated right. To support you. I think that 59 transactions and personally, I think the UX is a lot better just being able to see the price actively flash.

And then if you, and then being a lot more predictable with the blog, with like the timing, it's like, oh, this should be within 30 seconds, which now is what used to be kind of just. Shot in the dark. Now it's a little less of a shot in the dark. At least now you have a little laser pointer, um, to help you out a bit.

So that's very powerful. Um, but I think the repercussions of 1559 is it really demonstrates the power of utility and consumer use. I think a lot of other boxing's their political power is really constrained by their minors. Right? Whatever they say, you know, they, they own the hash power, right. The fact that you got P 1559, which perspec like on the perceptions, it's bad for minors as, as a part of their fees get burnt.

Um, the fact that this thing was able to pass with some amount of buy-in the minor side on the developer side on the adapt side, kind of really is I think tells how politically strong. That youth community is right. Being able to do something that is had a lot of controversies from the beginning. Right.

And that if that doesn't make you a little bit more bullish on youth being capable of upgrading itself, being capable of adapting itself to whatever future needs, uh, right. I don't think a lot of. Uh, blockchain and communities have yet to face these endeavors. I don't see a signal on definitely Bitcoin has its own struggles and usually it all is occurred to hard forks.

The fact that Eve was able to have no hard forks, uh, and just very easily kind of move over to this, uh, kind of contentious, uh, EIP. It shows a lot of the maturity of the technology stack and the community that's operating. And then that's, to me a very longterm. Bullets signal that, you know, The world is going to throw a lot of crap at each blockchain, but it seems that Eve has, uh, has bore through a lot of these, you know, through its history and seems more likely to succeed and whenever a new, um, issue arises.

Right? Yeah. Most definitely. Uh, I just kinda want to dig in here a little bit, cause I also think that this is the most significant thing. Uh, aside from the fee burning, it was being able to convince the miners to take less money, uh, and continue upgrading. This network, it shows that they are truly convicted.

They truly believe in the future of the network and they care about holding Eve. Long-term more than they care about their mining profits in the near term here. So, um, we're looking for Bitcoin to, to try to pull off a similar feat towards the end of the year with taproot, right? Yeah. I think that's coming up actually in a month or so David, do you know.

I'm probably the worst at Bitcoin since September. Yeah. They're pretty much trying to do a very similar idea. I mean, so David, I want to touch on what it takes to pull off something like this without a hard fork. Um, well, I'm not the best one to answer to this, to be honest. Um, I don't know all the nuances of core development on, on Heath.

Um, but I do know that. The difficulty bomb in place with a theorem, um, was a huge, uh, what do you call it? Political poker chip that developers had against the miners. It's, uh, you know, the difficulty bomb, the hash rate grows very fast to a place where the hash difficulty goes very fast to a place where miners are.

Unsustainably producing blocks. That's kind of like mutually assured destruction mechanic, and, um, developers gave themselves, I think the key to delay that bomb. Uh, so I think that played a part, but also I think miners are realizing just how much. Bye. And there was from dApps from, you know, from like just, uh, PR decks protocols from the NMT space.

It's like they don't, they didn't want to make themselves the enemy towards this humongous market that they're now, uh, sustaining. So I think there's, there's been enough political pressure just to, uh, say that we want to be part of the future instead of. Make a very contentious, like we're all making money, so it's all be happy, kind of a deal.

Very cool. Totally. So I want to jump back into proof of beauty because there has been a lot of new developments on it since you were on the show last, can we start by talking about proof of beauty's London gift and what it is? Yeah. Yeah. Uh, London as a project was a. Attempt to celebrate this hard fork.

Right? Um, it was, we wanted to build something that, uh, I guess, you know, hash was about recording history, right? It was about how do we document it's like the camcorder, but we wanted a project that makes sense. Right. We wanted a product that celebrated that history and we saw a great opportunity with this hard fork that like, look, we can create a great meme around it, create a great project around it and find a way to celebrate it.

Um, so that's what London that was, that was inspiration for London. Um, London started as actually an ERC 20 project. Um, it was an altcoin, um, but the key condition was you had a. Or if you wanted to get the London ERC 20 token, you had actually met at a very, very specific gas price on the specific gas price was 15.59 G way in celebration of VIP 1559.

So it, it threw people for a little bit in the ringer. It was instead of thinking about gas prices, just like if I pay a lot, I get my transaction in. Um, the protocol was actually like, Hey, I don't want you to pay on actually. I need you to pay less. To get the most amount of tokens. So it made people have to rethink how gas price works.

Right. And that was the whole point of the project because London was going to change how gas Spiceworks. So we wanted to project that makes you change how gas of works. Right. So, um, that created a very interesting, uh, uh, Community and mechanic right then that's why we called the Dow. The London nightclub Dow was people realized that you wanted to get a transaction.

That's so low on gas price. And on the blockchain, you had to do it at night. You had to do it on the weekends when nobody was, you know, using the blockchain. So people were like, this is the nightclub, right? Like this is the London nightclub. We got to do it at the night. And we're all going to start having fun and start flooding the blockchain with, you know, London transactions.

And that's that's, that's where that monitor came from the one, the nightclub. Um, but yeah, so, you know, you could have meant the London ERC 20 all the way up to the hard Hartford. Right. And right after Hartford, we gave it its first utility. You could buy the London gift and have tea, uh, which, which is about 8,000 of them.

Um, and don't wait to get them was you had to pay 1559. London tokens. Right. So if we didn't ask for eith, we asked for the ERC 20 token. Um, yeah, so that was a very fascinating experience because the first four hours of the hard fork London gift was actually the number one burner. Uh, um, and that, like, it was really funny to see when there were, there were, I think there was a Bankless podcast that was live streaming, the IP 50, 59 of that.

And then people were like, what the hell was this London gift that was topping it up for the first few hours of that podcast. Um, and that kind of, it was emblematic of that. Goal that we wanted to make noise. We wanted to make history. Right. Um, and, and we also actually have the honor of, um, the very first EIP, 1559 transaction on the theory of blockchain is a London transaction, like London gift transaction.

Uh, so that's another like, uh, and, and the funny part is that very transaction has been collected as. By the half community. Right? So you can see the, like the interplay that we're having with these two projects, these two collections, uh, which is super exciting and super fun to see on the day, uh, of the hard fork.

Um, and you know, I think for us, at least internally, it did everything we wanted it to do. Right. Which is make noise. Bring a community together. Uh, tell people about this great change through the hard fork, um, in a very crypto native way. Right. Um, and yeah, so now we have the London gift, um, It's been selling on open sea on the secondary market price floor has been all right.

Pretty good at 0.13 right now. Um, and, and, you know, there's quirky names for those and, and people have been using them as backgrounds for their crypto punks for board aids. Uh, there's all kinds of fun stuff happening there. Um, And yeah. I mean, you know, you don't have to really understand all this crazy history that I just explained to buy a London gift.

I hope that they're visually appealing enough. It's just like, you know what? I just want to own one for fun, right. Or own one, like an art blocks for speculation. Um, but yeah, like that's the history though behind the gift. So you're not just. Generative art and you're buying something that I think has a lot of embedded history in it.

And it's been my job to, uh, show that part of the project. So cool. How you went from documenting or like cam cording history, like you said, to making it yourself. Yeah. Yeah. Um, that was the goal with London and we were. Uh, scared that we wouldn't be able to pull it off, but I think we, uh, I definitely, I blew it blew all of our, um, uh, expectations out of the water when it, when it came out.

It's easy to think about that. The very first strings, the action on the new fork was your guys' project. I mean, what are the odds? I mean, it's a global thing. It could have been like. That let alone. That is enough to more people need to know that. Yeah. I think that adds a lot of credibility, honestly, to proof of beauty to have that transaction hash.

That's really cool. I had a quick followup question about London. How much were London tokens? How much would it cost to mint a London gift at the time of mint, maybe in easy terms and USD. Uh, I definitely won't have exact numbers here, um, to get London, um, since it was low gas price and you didn't have the pain to eat, there was a fair launch project.

Uh, we, we didn't pre mine anything. We didn't ask for any money for it. Uh, If you've minted at 15.59 G way, probably the London would cost you $4 for 1,559 of it. Cause it's, Ethan's cheap as 15.59 G way. Um, but I know some folks just because they were trying to get it, get it on a, on a T last minute they were trying to scramble in and get transaction.

Then they were like paying 60 G way. Um, but at 60 G when you only got like a hundred London, So they were actually paying a huge premium just to even get a little bit of London, which is ironic for, for how the gas market works. But I do know that the price served all the way up to like about seven to 10 cents a coin for London, just right up to the hard fork.

Um, and that was really amazing to see, because some of our early supporters of this project who minted, like millions of London were able to now profit, um, without even an entity coming out yet. Right. So they were able to sell their London for multiple Eve. Right. And, and that was, uh, Very different, you know, compared to gas wards that we're seeing with art blocks, with other NFP projects, where the miners reap the reward of their, of this huge FOMO, but we wanted a way to reward early supporters.

And I think London did that. Right. Um, I think at the time of minting, because I mean, the market's very thin for London tokens. It was between seven to 12 cents a minute. So if it was four and to get an NMT was 1,559 London token. So napkin math, it would be about 150, 150, $160. And the price floor was stabilizing on the secondary market around 0.0 8.09.

So that was about breakeven. I think. And now we're seeing that kind of rise as, as more folks are learning about what London is, London gift is. So aside from needing London tokens to mint the London gift, how does the token play into the ecosystem you guys are building? Yeah. Yeah. So that's a great question.

Um, after we released the London gift, All of that London that we acquired. Well, not we, but the Dow acquired is now part of it's like working capital, right? So it's like a weird way of thinking about it, right? Like most ICO projects, they release a token and then they save a portion of it for themselves.

We did it the other way we gave it all. And then we had to get, get it back in. All right. So, uh, the way we got it back in was the London gift and a T how we sold it. So about 13 million of the token, what is housed by the Dao, which is that we have a supplier 45 million of them. About 25% of the supply is now held by the Dao.

Um, it also receives 5% of the secondary market fees. So we have about a thousand eith of volume on London gifts. So now it has about 50 ease of capital. They can use to do things. Um, And the London token and the London gift, our governance power to the stout. Um, and, and we really gave it the directive that does Dow should continue to land the London experiment, um, and whatever that means, um, and the community has kind of grabbed it around.

This, this identity that we should be the Dow that creates history and celebrates history. So when, uh, the theory emerge happens, uh, uh, when he changed from proof of work to proof of stake, um, I think the London Dow is going to try to do something for that event. Um, but pretty much perpetuate this, um, the th the initial ambition of, of the London project.

Um, but just for. Historic events. And now that it's a Dow has a operating capacity to do it. And I know that a lot of other folks want the London token to almost be like a mid pass. So if you want to get into exclusive entities, you will need to own London tokens to get access to. So there's a lot of speculation on the value, but we didn't define a lot of value in the beginning.

We literally were just like, guys, you guys are getting a meme token. Like where are we going to be Frank with you? We haven't figured out any value for us yet. And the point is is that we're going to figure it out together. Right? Like, uh, and then, you know, still a lot of folks loved the idea, loved what the.

The, the story behind the project is, and now we're, you know, working hard to, with the community to build out value. That's really cool. Has the dowel deployed any of that capital yet on any projects or. Uh, not, not yet. We have a lot of great proposals in play. We have a bird mechanic that we want, that people want to introduce to the London gift project so that you can burn those entities together at different NMT.

Um, that's kind of in line with what EIP 1559 is all about. Running Eve. So they were like, we gotta burn love and gifts cause it's its own poetic to do so. Um, so there's that proposal kind of going through its process. And I think that would eventually have to, um, deploy capital to fund developers fund whatever's needed to realize that, uh, There's been a lot of work right now on boosting the LPs on the liquidity on London tokens.

So there's been a lot of great proposals, deploy capital and deploy London tokens into, uh AMMS to support the liquidity needed to sustain a doubt. Right. Um, so. That's been two main threads, but there's a lot of other random ideas that people have wanted willing to build there's ideas around the London.

Those you want to create a loaning group internally in the Dow where you can put up a, an, a T that you own as collateral, right. And you can draw money out and you can only get access to this. If you are London, dowel member, right. You'd be hold London token. So it's like a small credit, you know, Before London people.

Right? So there's a lot of good ideas. It's really just been like, we found a way to get a community get together in the community now. Well shit, we, we, we have money. We have intention. Let's realize it. And they're all very quirky, you know, excited, exciting ideas. So, ah, that's awesome. I have two quick questions.

I want to jump in with one. How do I join the Dow and two, how do I get London? Token? Yeah. Oh, you joined the London Dow literally just by owning either a gift or. 1,559 London tokens. Um, you can do more if you want to be a whale. Um, obviously that means more voting power, uh, but that's the minimum to get on our discord and access all the private channels.

Um, that, that is, uh, that is reserved for the London down members. And you can buy London on sushi swap. We have a AMM there. I wouldn't say that. Yeah, the slippage is amazing. Um, we're working on that, but you could definitely buy London gift on the open sea markets for, you know, a Flores 0.13 right now.

And that I did this morning. I picked up body, uh, in anticipation of this interview. I think it's so cool. So maybe do you want to just take a look at the features real quick? Uh, we could walk through them. So, uh, what are some of the ones that the community has picked out that you want to. Yeah, I, um, I think a lot of the community loves the view, go to the main, uh, filter and I can go all the way down to the unique, which is so most of these names.

Randomly generated, but then I took some time to make some funny names and I just watched Deadpool. When I, when I did these names, I wanted to fall breaking names like of these are pretty fun. Um, uh, so somebody, who's a pretty funny, I think light-hearted, it's supposed to make up a few pokes at the T space.

Um, um, can you show this for me last sold 108th for sale. Yeah. Yeah. So it's, these are really rare tokens, right? I guess NFTs. And there's only 30 of them out of the thousand 8,000 of them. And people have been trying to get their hands on these, um, And that's been, it's just been a fun, creative use name.

Then I know that the community had a great laugh, um, from somebody names. Um, um, there's just different commentary on, on crypto culture, on NMT culture. Yeah, they're awesome. So David correct me if I'm wrong, but these London gifts, they were generated on men, right? They weren't generated before these were actually generated before.

Um, uh, hash is not cause hatches at design concern. You know, we, we, we can't know what transaction and giving us until you gave it, you gave it to us, but right. For London, we took a page out of how board apes did its launch. Um, and they did it pre pre pre-built. So I saw you took inspiration from board apes, and I saw that on your website.

Can you go a little bit more into detail about that inspiration? Yeah. Yeah. Um, well I think when we clarify, clarify inspiration, it was much more of a technical inspiration as in how they, uh, built their in a T project to last a very, very, very long time for if not forever. Right? Uh, since the London gifts.

Project celebrating London to hard fork. It should exist as long as a theory exists. Right? So we had, we wanted to build a design constraint that this thing has decentralized as longterm as possible. And I think Bart apes has one of the better designs out there, uh, that allows her great rich artworks, but also, uh, storage, a lot of stuff on chain to allow you to maintain.

This is in fact a right NFT, that's pointing to the right metadata. So that's what I mean by inspiration is we, I looked at its contracts. We looked at it it's Providence design and would be, uh, figured out, um, uh, you know, a lot of great ideas there, uh, that we can build for wanting to gift. So I've been looking at art blocks lately and it looks like they have some similar type of projects.

Do you have any opinion on art blocks? Do you own any, what do you think about. Yeah. Yeah. I mean our boxes, uh, I I've, I've known him them when they were just on Rinka B, but when they were, does a test project, uh, in November last year, I don't remember. Um, yeah, I mean, I, I think the community is amazing. Um, there's been a lot of great noise and I think that what they're doing is lifting all that.

Generative art up, right? We're all rising with their, with what they're demonstrating in the market that's capable of being created. Um, I do think, um, as a project, there's, there's some genuinely good art. Um, I, I do think that some things I personally don't visually find appealing, but, uh, some of the work like the Cadenza pieces, like they were truly, I think, uh, amazing to me, uh, sub scape was really good.

Um, a lot of the work coming from. Keith is really well done. I really liked it. I remember when credenza was kind of quiet the market. Wasn't going crazy. Like it is now. I was putting up Teddy with offers and nobody was taking them. I was just like, darn it's like tennis is not allowed. I was like the only one dropping 10 offers.

And, and nobody took them and I'm kind of regret not offering more now. Um, um, but yeah, I mean, it did to do great things for the general market. I do know that they have some growing pains that they're working through with gas boards, um, and pricing out their new community members because of just how expensive now curated pieces are.

Our blocks factory is as well. Um, Yeah, I think they caught on a great meme, which is like this trading card kind of experience. Right. You pull a random and you, hopefully you get a great thing that such a, such a small supply. Um, and that's really awesome to see. Um, is that something that proof of beauty is interested in doing?

Um, not necessarily mainly because I think they've kind of figured it out. Um, and we don't really think that. Precisely something that we can offer that is very, very unique. I do think that the London gift, um, visually and its design was very inspired by how art blocks works. Um, so it is meant to try the art blocks community towards the proof of beauty ecosystem.

Um, but yeah, I mean, I, I think snowfall, the guy who. Um, our block is doing great stuff there. Um, and it's sustaining a good community there's downs now going on with their, some of their artworks, uh, only good things to say for them. And we're reaping the, you know, the windfall of the successful generative art project tidbit that I didn't know.

So snow fro fro is actually the guy who founded our. Yeah. I mean, he was, he was a one man army in the beginning that I follow him and I've been following him for a while. I didn't even realize that that's a guy who found it hard blocks. Okay. I know he owns a shitload of crypto punks, but Hey, now I know.

Yeah. So yeah. So David, can you tell us a little bit more about the, the London nightclub Dow? Um, I guess how does governance work on the platform? Is it a quadratic voting thing? Is it one token equals one vote? Uh, that's a good question. Uh, we have, um, implemented quadratic voting the snapshot proposals.

Um, I don't think we're in a place where governance is mature enough to put everything on chain and also. Gas fees or horrifying bad. If you have to pay $40 a vote, um, and $4, if you don't want to vote, um, or withdraw your vote. Um, so we're, so we have to do this option B uh, gas, this voting, um, when that's snapshot and it's quadratic voting.

Um, so we, we do have a lot of big whales and for London, there's a lot of guys with million dollar plus, well, a million London plays. So to kind of, even out the playing field, quadratic voting made a lot of sense. It does make sense. And those, those, uh, people with all that London, if I got the right contract, London is pretty up there now, compared to what 15, what you were explaining 1559, love them equal to in the beginning to get it.

Now it seems that that token price has gone up quite a bit, but I don't know if that's the right crop contract. I was looking on sushi swap, but I got kind of confused. Where I think I got lost and did a scam London. There's a SU there is a London. I, I think I know what you're talking about on Susan's slop.

I looked up London, there's a London, Tokyo. It's very priced well, and that's because it's the NFTA. Um, token it's presenting the price of the London gift, where does actually a different London, which is ERC 20. So I was confused on that and I don't know why they called the London, I guess, an a TX thing London as well.

They should have called one gift, whatever. Yeah, I think that is what I was looking at. But moving on from that part and kind of going into the general NFT space, where do you think that. What do you think the booming in the NMP popularity in, you know, industries and celebrities and stuff, getting into these and paying ridiculous amounts of money, but actually raising the value of, you know, just someone who has, uh, a normal, everyday NMT that they got, they found Twitter.

It got it for, you know, 0.02, either something, not a whole lot, but not. Too cheap, but you know, they got it. And now all of a sudden they're becoming millionaires because they had all these bunch. What do you think about all that stuff going on in this space right now? Yeah, I mean, uh, uh, I, that's a great question.

I know when I joined the DFI space, I fell in love with this ambition to, uh, its ambition, to make wealth equitable, to access. Um, and, and that was just this very fundamental idea that. If we make a protocol that this does not care who you are, you should give you the equal amount of access to, to all the financial levers that we can access to.

Right. As a participant, whether that means using compound without knowing what skin color, what nationality or whatever, um, in the, in a very, I guess, what do you call it? Realistic. More pragmatic view of that vision. I think, uh, defy you need assets. You need, you need a lot of money to really participate in a financially great way with, with these things, unless you're yellowing into like a thousand percent plus yields, hopefully you don't get bank run risk.

Right? You hopefully your token doesn't just tank. Right? So. As much as the ambition is there. It's it's I don't think we were seeing truly the fruits of the labor. Um, whereas an NMT is, I think we're seeing people capturing, um, you know, community is via, Anaptys capturing, uh, brand power or capturing reputability in a T.

And now they're able to sell these for a hundred, a thousand X to folks that need. Reputation that needs that very scarce resource. And it's creating generational wealth. It's creating a truly equitable world. It's given Eve the truly powerful reason to be at denominated asset, right? Like I've never in my life thought in E until not is right.

Like I thought everything in the U S dollar, like my, my personal accounts and his area on and everything it's in the east now. It's not an us dollar, which is incredibly powerful. Right. Um, and yeah. See that movement where early speculators are able to capture the windfall of this demand is, is amazing. I think we don't see this often with wealth distribution systems, um, in the real world, or even in really in DFI.

Right? I think the Unisource airdrop was very powerful, but folks were making $10,000 all of a sudden, because you need to swap, decided to do a distribution like that. I'm all for those kinds of things, right. It's definitely going to create a lot of FOMO and, and less, uh, well-intended projects will come in and these will eventually result in corrections in the market.

Um, um, when I think this is a very long-term bullish sign. People want, um, partis want to participate in this new reputation market that is being established by entities, this new, uh, content market that is established. Right. Um, and they're more than happy to come to the table with a anonymous address to participate.

Whereas before it was a lot more, you know, credit base, you had to participate, be institutions, be agencies or whatever, and they all take a cut. Right? So, yeah. So were you surprised when visa bought the crypto punk the other day? Uh, and what do you think is going to happen next? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I actually interned at visa when I was still in college, so I I've definitely seen.

One of visa is internally, but not all their teams. Um, I definitely was a little bit surprised that was visa, that there was a first one. I wouldn't be surprised that they were one of the few that were at the beginning, but I didn't expect them to be the first one. Uh, but I do know that their, I guess their assets team whoever's managing their wealth is a very, very.

Team and how they have strategically invested in a lot of different FinTech companies before and, and, and whatever the future of wealth is. They've been fairly on top of their game and, and this crypto punks investment, both in marketing stunt, but I think also a huge, um, like glass ceiling that they broke for.

Institutions that in fact, crypto punks, you know, the fact that they publish that said that versus buying a Bitcoin is very fascinating, right? It tells you that owning a crypto punk, you're not as something that appreciates in value. There's a genuine amount of reputational power, cultural power that you bought.

Right. Uh, Bitcoin spent 10 years building, right. For the Bitcoin meme. But crypto punks did in three years. Right. Or really didn't this year. Right. Because two years before you got about a punk for like, you know, like $5, right? Like. Yeah. If I could only go back. Uh, so speaking of going back earlier this year, we kind of saw the first, uh, little NFT bubble, uh, going on prices went crazy.

And then as the crypto prices went up, uh, people started moving their value into those assets instead. I kind of think that that while everything is, is like priced and Ethan open, see people are still looking at that USD value at the end of the day. Uh, and as Ethan goes up, do you expect the NFT space to kind of struggle and, um, you know, price, price, floors go down.

What do you think is going to happen as the price of Ethereum rises? It probably there will be a correction in the anti spaced and due to nominating the things that youth, when the newcomers are denominated in us dollar will create a clash. Um, right. Like for folks like ourselves, for myself, who, who, who, who has been owning for a while, uh, where we have acquired a youth at three digit numbers versus what it is now, um, uh, There's we're bound for a correction.

I think that's just kind of a natural inflows of, of the market. Um, I've somebody, or we had a conversation with somebody. We were like seven stages of hell, but the seven stages of crypto price movements, like you see moves Eve moves and then out coins and an entity starts to move. Like it's like a windfall of processing where wealth kind of just moves around and it flows back into the top level again.

So we're saying we're going to always see that. The thing has been denominated and it's, um, you know, there's gonna be a lot of new folks, but crap while your, or date is 130,000 us dollars, that's a year salary from, for a software engineer in the bay area. Right. Like that's, you know, and that's pre-tax right.

So let's. That's a lot of money. So do you think that you said the NFT bubble going to be comes after the altcoin bubble? Um, but we saw it in like early January coming, like before Bitcoin almost. And then now we're seeing it come again, maybe right before Bitcoin. Do you think it's before. Uh, I don't have any magic eight ball.

Tell me that I don't, I don't know what the sequencing is at this point. Um, I do think that Bitcoin's mimetic strength over the, uh, over to other markets is, has been weakening a little bit more and more. Um, but I mean, institutions are still buying a lot of Bitcoin. Right. And I think that's more than anything.

They bullish sign for Bitcoin as a store of value. So, um, I don't know the sequencing wall was changed. That's just how it, you know, if I were to predict that I would make, I would lose a lot of money. Why do you think that, um, in a T boom has happened again, like with board apes? Yeah. Budgie penguins and all of these different ones, he's either profile picture or, um, you know, these are these collectible NFT projects.

Why do you think they're all Boomi again? Uh, one, some I've heard is saying that it's the community is bringing everybody together, but I wanted to see as someone that's actually doing a successful project, why do you think this is, uh, taken off rapid fire? Like it is and what. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, I think the above the bowl and March really needed a correction.

It was at a place where we were operating a lot of us, I think, in the dark, when it comes to price discovery to community building, then I think the correction did come in and people were calling it at the NFC hangover or whatever where capital inflows were were, were a lot slower. Um, at the time during that time, I don't think that if the space was not building right, we were all still.

Hard at work and because they're less noise, we were able to be a little less kind of fighting fires by the day we were more strategic and mindful of what we need to do. I can just speak on my own experience out in March when we were doing has still, or does the main focus like. Compared to what I know now about community building about price discovery about the token Nomics with NMT is like, I feel like I was a toddler now in March, right?

Like we didn't understand anything or I didn't understand anything. And, um, we had hash max then I believe, you know, there's other great projects. But, um, I think once the NFC hangover happened, we were just kind of, I think it was a powder keg. We were just literally waiting for like the. Spark, and then everything was going to come back again.

Right? It was just, to me, it was just as a matter of time for the bull market to come back. It was either in a few months, half a year or whatever, but, um, then if he sparked market works off the football lot of FOMO, right? Like, like a hedge fund goes buys and 508th of whatever, or buy the sweeps, the whole floor on crypto punks.

And. That wouldn't fall brings everybody over again. Right. Um, when people are making money, everybody comes and make money. Um, but there's been a lot of maturing between these two bear bull and bear cycles, which is insane for how fast the market has been moving. The fact that we've been able to grow with it.

Right. Like the fact that open, see now shows for price instead of average price, it literally showed average pride for years, right? From the beginning that opens the existed because they, nobody understood that floor price matter, not average price, right? Like it took us a bear, a bull market and a bear cycle realizing.

Actually the statistic that we want to be working towards. Right. And we have tools like rarity, sniper, Ray, already tools that allows people to speculate on how rare your entities are. Um, keep our, seeing the present power of the reputation that you can gain. If you own a crypto, pumpkin, that's your portrait.

Right? So, um, yeah, it's, it's, it's like relaying a lot of the good groundwork and we're also seeing a lot of great, um, infrastructure projects. Right. The fact that, uh, you know, that the open seat made like a billion, like how about a billion dollars of volume or whatever, and raise a hundred mil that puts a target on their back.

Everybody wants in on that. This is now right? So that means some of the most talented people are now in the market. Right. Not buying but building. Right. That's like huge talent draw that. And it teases simply haven't had until this year. Right? Like it's, I don't think we were able to, it was able to draw the best people.

Okay. It felt like a very small market or before January, right? This correction. I think quite a lot of people that stuck along. Right. So I like these because I think that the, um, the PFP or even the art projects are going to be here for a couple of years. But if you look back and you look at the tokens that even some that have been on or some of the past only like.

Three to five out of the past seven years are tokens that we know now, you know? And so, and that's just gonna be the same continuing with these NMT projects. As long as the Ethereum is on polygon, all these ones that they're on their own blog. They're going to be there forever. These tokens will come and go, but these crypto punks are going to be in museums.

Um, you know, they're already, they already are. So it's just really cool to see something like that with the longevity and the lifespan that these will have compared to ICO's and token projects. That'll just, yeah. So along, along with London came the, uh, background changed service, uh, which I think is really cool.

I've been seeing a bunch of punks and apes with proof of beauty backgrounds. Uh, so if you can maybe talk about, uh, how that came about and the network effects you've been seeing, I will show everybody how they can do it, uh, while you're explaining. Yeah. Yeah. One of the things about London and I'm certain that you guys have felt this just from me, rambling is it's a complex project.

It has a lot of history. Um, but we wanted London gift to have its own name. That's not just about history. And we wanted something about. Holds its ground for NFT speculators and just NFTE people in general. So, uh, we started to see people use London and hash as backgrounds for their, uh, uh, avatars. And we just thought that was the main, that was, um, that's how we're going to get people like crypto punks.

You know, quite know what the hard fork is to love London or to love hash. So we really wanted to seize that opportunity and create a great project that would grow the, grow that meme. And that was, you know, literally two weekends and I, and I, and nearly an all-nighter and we, uh, slapped together a pretty scrappy service that, you know, we hope that we'll propagate that story, right.

That, um, this meme, that London gift is a great background for. PSP projects. Yeah, for sure. Uh, I'm having a little bit of trouble selecting the, the 24 PX, uh, option for some reason. Uh, put your ape on there. I wish man. So yeah, I can't show you guys cause I don't have any of these other projects right now.

Um, but maybe we could talk about how, um, you've been adding projects. Have you guys like been in contact with, with these creators? Have you let them know, worked with them to integrate. Uh, for some of them, the communities have reached out to us for most of these, we've been just taking them by the signal.

Like people wanted this. We're like, okay, we'll add it. Right. Some that we obviously had ads just because they're blue chip, right? Like a Parkside that be very dumb and last not to add punks our board apes, like I own a board eight. Right. So I wanted to see my own selfish there too. Uh, cool cats. I'm a huge, cool cats fan.

So that was a really easy ad for us. Um, Yeah, we it's open source so people can just drop in and literally just add two lines of code. And what law you going to add your own, uh, avatar and the process? We do permission it, cause sometimes the result is. To be less than desired and something like Photoshop may work a little bit better and know we're not interested in recreating Photoshop.

So, um, when you had to restrict a few of them, but we've been collaborating with few communities like the crypto dunks, um, community. The derivative of the crypto punks project, um, we're working on a giveaway, right. Um, getting their community to, to use punks faculties, gift, get backgrounds, um, uh, the bowls on the block, the bears on the block.

We're really excited too. Right. We were trying to help them out. Um, but yeah, yeah, we, we it's been the case by case basis, but awesome. Uh, that's unfortunately really all the time we have for today. David, thank you so much again for stopping by. It was a great interview as always. I'm really excited to see what's next for proof of beauty.

Do you have anything you could share with us now? Yeah, I guess a half we have seasons, uh, which I'm not going to go too much into, but that's. Do generations of artworks, uh, where right now in season one saga, we do have a season two planned after season one sells out in season two. I'll just give it its name.

It's called Toshi. Um, and I think Toshi, if you had to think about what it means, um, can tell you what kind of history you were targeting with Toshi. Very cool. I'm excited for. Um, so yeah, w we will have you back on when that project launches, but for now, I just want to give you the chance, any shout outs you want to make anything else you want to mention to the audience?

The is. Yeah. Um, you know, we, we have a lot of great things going on. So following us, beauty, Twitter is going to be awesome. And if you go on there, we have a lot of other, Twitter's now managed by the community, not by us, for each, for all the doubts that we have going on. So that's been really amazing. You really want to follow the details of all this stuff, all the history that we're telling or making follow those Twitters, um, cause cause.

Yeah, you don't want to miss out on, um, I think some of the wacky things that we're doing for sure. Awesome. Make sure to, to follow those. Twitter's they're linked in the description below and so is the website. Uh, it is right under the like button wink, wink. Um, but yeah, that's it for our interview and our show today.

Um, David, thanks, Ryan. Brian, you have anything else you want to mention? No, thanks for coming on David. Absolutely. Awesome. Yeah, we'll see you guys Friday.

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Cardano Smart ContractsArbitrum and L2sWalmart and LTCTokens.com InterviewMoon or Bust - To Play Moon or Bust go to https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrency

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Ryan McNamara

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Unedited Transcript

boom, good afternoon. Zinger, nation. Welcome aboard the moon or bus rocket. Ship your hub for all things. All coins and defy. My name is Logan Ross, and I will be your captain on today's space flight. Okay, I'm going to be co-pilot by defiant developer, Brian Moore and exit liquidity. I mean, I mean, uh, uh, uh, best trader in the world, ran back in the mirror.

Number one, Dex trader. Um, awesome. So welcome guys. How you doing? Good. How's it going to captain, captain Mike Bryan? Cause I, uh, lost a 12th word of one of my seed phrases for a wallet. I can't figure out how to get it. And so, um, I got to do some defy developing. Did you really do? Huh? That's a good, good time.

Yeah, not your keys. I'll always keep your private keys and your seed phrases safe. Okay. Um, okay. So we're going to talk about Cardinal today. We're going to talk about a lot of cool stuff. Uh, but before we can take off before we can blast off, I need to go over some general safety procedures. Okay. So please keep your arms.

Okay. Uh, and portfolios inside the vehicle at all times. Uh, and those who are willing and able please flip your light button into the on position. Uh, it does a lot for the show. If you're new around here, make sure to subscribe to the Benzinga channel and check out the description while you're down there.

The top link is the Benzinger crypto separate YouTube channel, where you can get all of the specific crypto clips. Uh, and then there's also, let's see, we got the telegram down there. We got the merchant link down there, pick up your sick eith hat. Uh, and we got a 25% off discount code coming at you. If you join the telegram, which is also linked down below, we also have a lunar bus game, uh, which was really cool.

Um, Ryan and I helped, uh, helped to build this and you can click Mooner bus. You can vote on all your favorite tokens. We're trying to get the community involved here. So check that out as well. Uh, go make your votes, check out the website. And there's also all of our old videos there. We've talked to Tim Draper, we've talked a bit, boy, we talked to the creators of ACCE infinity.

So go check that stuff out. You really don't want to miss it. There's a lot of valuable info there as always make sure to connect with us on Twitter. You can see our handles, uh, hit us up. If you've got some questions you want to know our thoughts. Um, and also we want to know your thoughts. So what projects are you looking at this week?

Drop them in the comments below, um, projects, tickers, whatever you got forests. We want to see it, and we'll try to talk about them. If we get some time today. Uh, we also have a sweet interview coming up with tokens.com. Uh, we have Andrew Kegal coming on the CEO of the company. Talk to us about how he's giving defy access defy, uh, um, uh, exposure to these institutional retail investors.

It's really cool. Uh, so stay tuned for all of that, but first up on the docket, uh, we have car Dano, smart contracts launching, uh, kind of, kind of unexciting here. I don't want to say it's like the challenger. Uh, but, um, Ryan, why don't you just tell us what else. Cardona said September 12th for smart contracts and they deliver it.

They brought us some smart contracts. They had a successful hard fork, the Alonzo hard forks, and now there are smart contracts on Cardona. So that's really cool that the youth Maxis can't say that Cardona doesn't have smart contracts anymore. So now I can't make that argument, which I guess is good, but it seems like they might only be able to process one transaction at a time.

Cardinal has been having some trouble doing concurrent transactions, which is very necessary for defy. So although these smart contracts are. There aren't very many defy applications that you can use. Don Cardona. We were looking over this morning trying to find one. We could go over on the show. We couldn't find any depths on Cardona that are up and running.

Now I saw that men swap one of the automated market makers on Cardona was up for a little bit, but they were having problems with their smart contracts. Like I said, they weren't able to run concurrent transactions. So they weren't able to run more than one transaction at a time on their platform. So I'm not sure if that's been fixed yet, but these applications are not up and running from what I can see.

If you have any dabs on Cardona that are up and running, put them in the chair. We can have a second to go over them, look at them, see what they're all about. Uh, but as of now seems pretty lackluster. And I think car Donald's price shows that we're dipping down. I didn't check today, but I think we're, we're what low $2.

Now we hit $3 last week. So I, I don't think it's looking too good for Cordato after all of this hype and now they're having problems after launch. Uh, what do you guys think? You guys are the ADA investors you're bullish on Cardona. How do you think this plays out? Brian? You want to take this one or you want me to go for it?

Yeah, I can, um, say a few things. Well, one thing is a comment from the just ADA, you know, Foundation, the people who try to do the, who added the smart contracts and everything like that. They said that this is just now it's just getting started. And so there's a lot of room to run here and I don't think they want to put out a subpar, um, product or anything.

But one, one thing that gives me pause is that why, why didn't they have this already ready to go for the date that they establish in? Why was it a little bit more feature rich than it actually is? That's it's not really concerning, but kind of annoying because it's like, come on, let's let's get this party started.

Let's go for it. You have so much money. There's all these people invested in it. There's all these eyes looking on it. There's all this help. There's the, one of the co-founders of Ethereum's heading it off. So like what's the holdup. That's my quick. Yeah, for sure. And we saw them deploy smart contracts on their Testnet.

Uh, like a couple of weeks ago we saw the same issues going on. Uh, and it's really amazing to me that they didn't fix it or delay the launch. Um, in, you know, CarNow has dropped 11% today, 14, almost 15% on the seven day. It's down to 2 42 right now. Uh, so people were saying Karmanos smart contracts. Weren't priced in.

I don't know about that. It kind of looks like they were, and their, their, um, flawed execution has kind of taken a share out of their market cap, which I mean, makes sense to me. Why are they worth $78 billion? When Salada is worth $46 billion, they have this. Uh, defy ecosystem. So Ilana has $11 billion in, in TVL like locked in protocols.

Uh, whereas Guardado has nothing. They have, they have a large amount of their, um, of the ADA staked, uh, for validating the network. But that shouldn't come as a surprise because what else can you do with Cardona at this point? There's no other way to make money on it. Like, there's all these different applications on Ethereum, it's Atlanta, uh, where you can get higher returns than, than just securing the network.

Um, yeah, I mean, it's kind of disappointing to see this happen. I I'd like to see, uh, you know, them kind of fill out the potential to fill out, uh, the, the reasoning that they're justified with, why their market cap is almost $80 billion. Um, I think they have a, uh, there, you can tell that these guys are developers.

You can tell that they are on the, you know, the technical side and know how to make things happen, but are not good at marketing. They're not good at, you know, letting people know exactly what's going on. I kind of disagree. I kind of disagree because if they're the good, if they're good at the technicals, then why aren't their smart contracts working?

Why isn't the ecosystem there that their main strength I think is marketing and Charles Hoskinson is leading the way. Right? All the, all these people, all these Cardona lovers like love the project because smart contracts and Charles Hoskinson right. That's not, they have no other like justification. Um, and.

I don't know, I'd like to see more happen. Well, what I think what, what I was gonna say was this looks like it was just the date. The hard fork was going to be launched. It wasn't the date that, you know, all the smart contracts everything's going to be working correctly. Everything's going to be this crazy new Ethereum, all this other stuff.

It was just the date that they were going to do the hard fork and start the process. And I don't think that they made that, you know, known to all their holders to, you know, anybody, they just kind of, you know, everyone expected to go this full route in this full, like, you know, smart contracts, transactions, all this stuff.

And to be just like Ethereum or salon or any, any of the others, but it looks like it was just, they did the hard fork and they, you know, now we start. You know, that's just my thought on it. It was definitely an interesting decision by car dyno, not to delay the smart contracts. Oh yeah. They knew it wasn't working.

It was on the Testnet. So, I mean, they had to expect that these stamps weren't going to work when they, when they issued this hard for it. So why not delay? I mean, they get a lot of flack, especially on social media about over promising and under-delivering, I think this is one of those cases, but I think they probably should have delayed the hard fork because then the dabs could come out when smart contracts are running on the ecosystem.

And it seems to me that would be a lot smoother way to do it, then release these smart contracts that nobody can really use right now. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Um, so yeah, we've got a couple, uh, comments, one from HD 5,000 explaining about the transaction model. Oh, whoa. Can you hear me? Okay. Uh, so the, the unspent transaction model is what card auto has implemented.

It it's the reason that these defy apps are having these problems. It's supposedly intentional, supposedly supposed to be bringing benefits. Uh, but we only need to see, uh, some, some sort of alternative to enable these applications, you know? Um, let's see, what else do we have here? So is it a problem with the developers that are building these decentralized applications then?

And not technically Cartano smart contracts? I don't think it's a problem with the. They would like the developers building like incorrectly. I think it's just the model that Cardinal has chosen. Uh, isn't capable of handling this. It's the, it's a different model from Ethereum and it's, uh, unable to like dApps.

Aren't able to do multiple interactions with them within one block is basically the, just a bit, I'm not super technical. I'm not an expert specifically on the, these deep, uh, portions of, I, um, if you guys know out there, please do drop some comments, let us know. So we can, you know, get all of our facts straight here, but, um, we'll have to see what they do in the future because without the, the, the defy ecosystem mirroring Ethereum, hearing Solana, it's going to be interesting to see what use cases they're able to pick up instead.

So, um, that's what I have for today on Cardinal. Well, we can look at the prices or we can move on to, to the arbitrary news. Uh, were you guys feeling. Either way. Yeah. Maybe pull up the prices anyways. We can keep them on screen so we can maybe go over some layer twos and their prices. And then we can go over and look at how light coin has been affected by this recent Walmart news.

Sounds good. I will say one thing about the last thing I'll say about the ADA thing. Cause someone just mentioned, uh, ADA tokenized or.io and I am on that site and, uh, it is in beta, but we're not saying that the Cardona does not have smart contracts. They do have smart contracts. They're just not what we would expect from the co-creator of Ethereum, but you know, it's just not ready yet.

And it wasn't known how far it would go. So it's, it's still in a process and eventually it will be what we all want it to be in my opinion. I mean, hopefully we'll see some decentralized exchanges popping up soon. I know a lot of people are bullish on Sunday, swap, like to see that launch and I'd like to use it.

I'd like to get my hands on it and start being active in the, in the ecosystem. And there's definitely a lot of opportunities within Cardona's ecosystem. Hopefully there's going to be some airdrops coming out. So if you're an early adapter to any of these different programs, Ancar Dano, there is a possibility that you could get airdrops some tokens, which would be really cool.

Everybody loves free money. Just don't tell the S DC about it. Uh, yeah. So here, oh, this is Bitcoin. I was a Cardona for a second day. I don't know what happened. Eight years up at the Logan. Do you see one maybe for Coinbase by now finance? This will do. Um, so these are the weekly candles right here. So I was ripping through July.

Uh, and now it's a correction. I mean, I don't necessarily think that this is like entirely the fault of the smart contracts. Not, I think it's pretty high. Yeah. There could be a lot of profit taking mixed in here. Uh, don't want to, to create any untrue FID, um, but we'll keep our eyes peeled on this situation and we'll keep you all updated.

And we also want to know, uh, what you guys think about it. Um, and maybe you could even come on and chat with us, hit us up on Twitter. If that sounds like you. Um, okay, so let's talk about light coin next. Yes. Over the light coin. And then we can talk about arbitrary Monday or Tuesday after. Okay. Cool. We did just handles or.

For show for show. Nice. Um, so you guys have been living under a rock for the past six hours. Light coin is not being accepted by Walmart. So it was fake news. It got picked up by a lot of different publications. Lots of stuff came out, but then the CEO of Walmart went on to CNBC to clear up the news. It's not actually happening.

It's fake news. And the most concerning part about this, at least in my opinion, is that light coin, the light coin foundation actually tweeted about this partnership this morning saying that Walmart will be accepting them as a payment option. And then later deleted that tweet. So I don't know who sent that tweet out, who was able to do that, but it was completely fake news and it was pumped by the light coin foundation themselves.

So I mean, people are talking about this being a facilitator for some more regulation coming in the space. I mean, not man. I see that because what we were at less than a hundred. $80. This news pump the price up to $236. And then once people found out it was fake news, we're right back down to under $180.

So if you're able to catch that move, pick up on the fake news shortly coin, and you probably made some good money, but you got to stay up to date with this news. What do you guys think? Do you think this might cause some more regulation in the future? I mean, it's really the news publications fault for not verifying any of this information, but at the same time, light Quinn really shouldn't have tweeted about it.

I mean, they're obviously wrong for that pumping fake news for their own coin. Not a good look whatsoever, I think. And there's probably a lot more backstory to this that we probably won't know because it seems like such a big deal. And if light coin foundation is bumping it. I mean, it is like announcing it, then there's something else going on or, yeah, it got the Twitter account got hacked, but that Newswire is from kind of a reputable source.

And so they immediately, well, not immediately, but like a few hours an hour or so later they put a disclaimer, say, Hey, this is not true. Um, like going is not being accepted by Walmart, but it's pretty fishy. It's weird. Interesting. Weird. If you, what do you guys think if Walmart decided to accept cryptocurrencies, would they go with light coin or would they go with something else now?

And, well, they're also hiring for a blockchain developer in a cryptocurrency expert, so they, they trying to create their own. So why would you accept light coin out of all of them? You know, it's just, it's just weird. All right.

All right. Let us know what you guys think about this situation. Would Walmart take light coin? Would they take Bitcoin? Ethereum, Cardinal. What's going to be the move here. Um, but for now we have probably, yeah, probably doge coin. That's probably, I mean, that's from a, from a, like a technological perspective.

Doge coin is the most advanced cryptocurrency in existence. Um,

A whole lot of cap up in here. So I want to talk about Adam real quick. Uh, Adam has seen a new all time high today, uh, which is dope. We've talked to the creators or some of the lead developers on the cosmos blockchain on the cosmos protocol. Um, we talked to them a couple of months ago earlier this year, we talked to Dennis as well.

Who's also working on the team, um, maybe like one month ago now. So go check out those interviews, uh, if you haven't seen them yet. Uh, they're really, really cool. Adam has a crazy project. That's all about blockchain interoperability, right? So there's a lot of blockchain maximalists. They say Bitcoin's the way.

Themes the way to go us a lot is the way to go. Uh, and then cosmos comes over here and says, oh yeah, well, the demand for blockchain space will probably grow to fill all these blockchains. So eventually we'll need to connect them. We'll need to have room for application specific chains, uh, that can lower fees and all be connected through a hub.

So cosmos blockchain is the central hub that all these other blockchains are plugged into. If you're familiar with polka dot, they got something very similar going on, but we're seeing this atom token rip. I mean, we interviewed them when the, when the coin was down here. Uh, it was such an interesting project to me that I was picking it up in these ranges.

Uh, so now, now we're doing really well. This is a good day for me. Look at these. This is, these are the weekly candles here. These past three have just been nuts. Um, you guys, did you guys pick up any Adam I've been holding Adam's since it was about at $4, some I'm pretty happy with it all. Very nice. I don't have any Adam.

And I mean, it looks like it might be too late, but you never know. It looks like we're in price discovery right now. And like we saw with Solano after we crossed those all time highs, we just ripped, we went up another two, 300% after that. There's really no telling where the price goes. Once we pass all time highs, especially when we're not in a bull market, per se, with Bitcoin and Ethereum at new all-time highs.

I mean, typically these all Queens will follow the market, but when one of the few that don't don't and go to new all time highs, a lot of times you see really big gains. So I'm, I'm interested to see where Adam goes. I wouldn't be surprised if we saw $50, honestly. Yeah, yeah. Now they were die. Uh, so yeah, that's another one we wanted to point out today.

Let's see. Should we talk about arbitrage? And we have about 10 minutes left before this interview, more like eight. I'm going to take my, my screen share off real quick. Maybe we can talk about arbitrage, uh, on a theory. Yeah, man. Our Trump's been picking up a lot of traction. There's over $1.5 billion locked within its ecosystem.

It's a layer two scaling solution. It's a lot like optimism. So you, you bridge your assets onto the chain, the side chain, I guess it's not technically a side chain. It's a layer two, right? Logan. It is a layer two. Yeah. Okay. Uh, but yeah, there's $1.5 billion. Like most of this, it was interesting. I was looking to see where all this money was going within the arbitrary ecosystem.

And most of it was going to this program called . So it was like a Nyan cat themed yield farming protocol on arbitrage. So since it's a layer two solution, the fees on it are much cheaper. So you can actually yield farm much more efficiently than say on Ethereum, blockchain. Uh, but this, the price of this Arvin nylon token one.

50 cents 40 cents all the way up to like $8 within just a few days. And has since dumped back down to around 80 cents. So we were seeing super high volatility on this token, and it's going to be interesting to see whether these yield farmers stay in Arvind eye on with the price down so much now, but either way, $1.5 billion locked in an ecosystem that's been around.

Well, I guess the ecosystem really is a theorem, but the arbitrary gateway has been around for less than a week now. And we're seeing already over a billion dollars, locked on the platform, which is just absurd to me. I mean, it took forever to see salon reach a billion dollars, and now they're at 10 billion.

So we'll see where the growth goes, but it's looking really good for arbitrary. It is looking good for arbitrage and, uh, they sucked a lot of the volume out of some of the other bridges, specifically those to Solana and those. So I think Ryan, what was the other one there? And do you remember what the name of that site was?

Where we could see them all. I don't remember. No. You mean Mulana, polygon and Solano, I think. And then there was one Holly gun that sounds right. But there were three and they were down like 30%, 40% and 60% well Arbitron was up. So it looks like a lot of this money coming from other layer, one scaling solutions like salon are, are actually flowing back into the Ethereum ecosystem and using these layer two solutions like arbitrary optimism, mainly arbitrary right now I haven't checked how much total value is locked on optimism, but I don't think it's at a billion dollar say actually, no, it's not at a billion dollars.

USCAP because with all the layer twos outright now arbitrage has 60% of the total value locked. So compared to its competitors, it has the most by far, which is very impressive. I'm not actually quite sure. Why, why do you guys think that arbitrage is the one seeing adoption? I mean, it's pretty similar to optimism from what?

Yeah. One thing is it's under the same umbrella as optimism. So it's owned by the same parent, well funded by the same parent company. So they're not technically competitors, but they do very similar things. Um, I couldn't tell you what, why one is better than the other, besides it going down to more, you know, better marketing, better selling points and just, you know, catching the right niches and places to go.

But that is one interesting fact though, because they're both kind of in the same family that it's weird that they would, I mean, I really do not know. I'm guessing the arbitrary has more like volume available, more space available, uh, for processing. If I had to guess that would be the reason that it's beating out optimism at this point.

Um, but they do use the same, excuse me, the same technology, the optimistic roll-ups. Um, and Ryan, I found L to beat right here, uh, and we can see there's $2.2 billion locked in arbitrary of 3000% over the past seven days. That's pretty good. I wish I could do that. Yeah. I haven't used arbitrarily yet, but Logan, I think you're right.

I think it is cheaper to use arbitrary than optimism. Right now. I went in, I did a transaction on optimism on unit swap the other day, actually just yesterday. And it actually was kind of expensive. It was like 0.01 to Eve, which is probably around two to $4, which, you know, it's not bad, but compared to Solano, which is like 1 cent, it definitely doesn't really compete.

It's still kind of expensive, especially if you're doing a lot of transactions. Now it's nowhere close to a theorem. That's 30, $50 a transaction, but you get that security with Ethereum. I don't think they're really competitors whatsoever. I think these layer twos are really competing with Solana and Binance smart, our chain and those other proof of stake.

Smart car contract blockchains. Yeah. Killer killer question mark.

All right. Uh, that is our market update for you today. We have Andrew kugel backstage right now, uh, from tokens.com. So I'm going to bring him on, uh, right now, Andrew, welcome to Muna bust. How are you doing today? I'm good. How are you guys doing great. Thank you. Uh, no on that, uh, that conversation that you guys, I mean, yeah.

It's some interesting stuff around, so yeah. Yeah. What do you think about the whole, a layer two ecosystem? Are they the Ethereum killer killers? You know, I don't know. I think as a thing, I mean, if you look at what my company does, which is staking, I think that if can't move to staking quickly enough, right?

So the funeral is trying to defend its market position by moving away from proof of work to proof of stake and, you know, eat 2.0 is doing that. You know, they just had that, that London upgrade. So I don't know what we'll, we'll see what happens hard to. Indeed it is. Uh, so Andrew, for those out there who haven't heard.com, uh, or heard of riot, can you, can you guys hear me?

Am I cutting out? Yeah, you're fine. Okay. No, you're good. Um, so Andrew, so those who haven't heard about tokens.com, uh, could you tell us a little bit about yourself, your background coming from Chile and how you got into crypto? Uh, yeah, so I was important in Chile, but that doesn't have much to do with my crypto, but, um, I tell you the story.

I was, uh, I was an investment banker in Toronto Baca in 2011 for two decades. And I got really interested in crypto back in 20 16, 20 17. And the gap that I found is you have all these people who like to invest via the public markets. So like the Robin hood type people, public market institutions and mutual funds, and they didn't really have a way of investing because the level of sophistication that you guys were just talking about.

Most people don't have that. They don't have the time to do that, or the ability to do it instead. They just want an easy stock that they can by trade. It's easy to account do the taxes for and all that stuff. And so back then, um, there wasn't a lot of ways for public market people to get exposure to Bitcoin.

So myself and some other guys, um, you know, probably heard of a couple of the other guys, um, Mike Novogratz created a company called headache and headache was really a Bitcoin miner. I think it was the first public Bitcoin miner. And the main thing that made it different from all the other mining companies is keep the Bitcoin that you might have as much of it as you can, you know, pay the electricity, do not keep the Bitcoin.

And today, uh, headache has a one and a half billion dollar market cap. And I think outside of like, um, micro strategy, maybe Tesla owns and holds more Bitcoin than any other public company in the world. Like a tremendous amount of that coin. The one thing though, that I started recognizing last year. And it goes back to what you guys are talking about is, you know, you try to take a step back and like, what are the big trends happening in crypto and defy an NFPS?

Here's the problem. You can't process the stuff really on proof of work. Like you see the difficulties that Eve has having with it, which is why they're transitioning and Crusoe state can process a hundred thousand transactions per second. Whereas crypto mining community do about 15. That's a big difference going from one five to a hundred thousand.

And so I decided to make the leap from going from a proof of work company to a proof of state company. Cause I'm like, this is where the future is going. Like nobody builds anything on proof of work anymore. Like when's the last time anybody lodged a blockchain on proof of work like credentials, Salinas, everything is staking now.

So if you look to the future and again, to that thought of how do you give people in the public markets, easy exposure to this, um, We create a tokens.com. So we're a public company and we take our money and we buy tokens and we stake them. So we've got a big positions in each Binance, um, Pocono and Oasis.

And we're also doing some, uh, liquidity, uh, farming, yield farming stuff with the Axion infinity, uh, shards, which you get the access, which you guys are probably familiar with. And I think we may be the only public company in the world that owns that and gives it to investors exposure to that. And so that's what we're trying to do.

Like it's easy to get exposure to Bitcoin. I always find it amazing in Canada. They launched a Bitcoin ETF earlier this year, and Bitcoin's probably the easiest thing for someone to buy yet. The ETF attracted a billion dollars in 24 hours. You know, all of these funds that are out there, the money keeps pouring in, which just leads me to believe that my thesis, which is.

People prefer to have something public that they can buy through Robin hood or their online trader through their broker and have it sit with the rest of them as opposed to going and doing some of the work to figure it out themselves. There you go. So you are basically the micro strategy of defy, uh, giving all these.

So would you say your main audience is retail then? Or would it be, would it be institutional? You know what? It's both. Um, the largest tech mutual fund in Canada called CA signature. They manage billions of dollars. They came to us and said, we really like polka dot, but as a fun, the way we're structured, we're can't we don't have the capability to go out and buy, put it.

This is before dot was trading on Coinbase and it's hard for people to get, but for them, it's also like, we don't know how to get it. We don't know how to secure it. You guys are liquid, you're staking it. You're making a yield off it. And we can have liquidity through you. And so they might ask their compliance department, they said, how much of this company can they buy?

They want to buy as much of this as they could, but, but you're right. That's a good example. We are like the micro strategy of defy. The big difference is I don't think Michael Saylor is making any money off his Bitcoin that he sits on. We are actually so far this year, just on our staking. We're up about a, I think it's close to 25% on our cost basis on just staking rewards.

Now it's not the 3000% that you guys were showing before, but we're a little more conservative in our assets. Look, crypto's volatile, but our assets are up over 70% since the end of Q2. So just for July, August and into September, we're up 70%. So the assets that we use to create revenue are up by 70% and then those assets have created another 24% of new tokens for us.

So I think it's a pretty good business model. You know, we're looking to grow it and definitely there's interest. I always tell people, if you want to get exposure to Bitcoin, there's funds, there's crypto miners. If you want to exchanges that are out there, but if you want to get public market exposure to all points and specifically defy tokens, um, there's not a lot of choices for you.

If you're more like a newbie or you just don't want to go do the work yourself. That's awesome. Let's see, you mentioned that you stake to get extra cryptocurrency in your portfolio, which is obviously a great idea, but do you guys use any other defy applications outside of actually validating that works turn any passive income on your holdings?

Yeah, so we own a bunch of, uh, uh, Bitcoin, um, not, not a huge position, but like a relatively decent position. So we go on like pancake swap and some of those places, and I think we're. At last check, we were running about 14% on it. So that would be more of our active strategy. But generally speaking, our core strategy is buy stake and hold.

And, um, like I said, not a ton of stuff. Like we really like polka dot. I think we miss Solana Solanas are a really good one. You know, all these guys are trying to see you who can replace, you know, Ethan and there's a lot of good contenders that there are. So you guys saw, you were talking about the credential smart contract watch and, um, you know, there's, there's a ton of cool things going on out there.

Um, I don't think anybody knows where things will ultimately resolve, but I can guarantee in 12 months we'll be having some very interesting conversations. I think you're right. Totally. And I see that you guys are also invested into NFT gaming as part of your portfolio. So I saw you guys are, are invested in ACCE infinity and smooth, smooth love potion, which is another token on AXI infinity.

Are you guys involved with the scholarship program at all and XC infinity, like, do you actually take these assets and rent them out to players? Or how do you make the yield on your NFT gaming platform plates? Yeah, so I think right now what we're doing, it's just, we're part of the liquidity pools. Um, so we're sort of trimming it.

Uh, that's what we're doing. So the returns on the S on the smooth love potion, the returns have been exceptional, the yield side, but the performance has not been awesome in the last couple of months. Uh, kind of the reverse on the AXS we're seeing amazing appreciation. I think since we bought it, it's up about 65% or something, but the, the yield on it in terms of the liquidity pools, there's only one.

20 to 23% are still really great. You know, it's funny in this world and having been a bank for a long time, if you were to make like eight to 10% in a year, you'd be like real happy. You'd be like, I just had a great year. I think crypto makes you a little bit nutty in that, you know, you go through like may and June where everything drops by 60, 70% and you got really upset.

And then all of a sudden everything's up and you're, you know, you're always aiming for these big returns, but, but these are good products. And if you look at the big trend of NFTs and defy what's happening, I think, um, it's not just short-term gains. I think there's like real legitimate value here to what's being created in.

Yeah, I mean, making 25% interest, uh, 25% of your return on, on interest alone, uh, must have the traditional financial system quaking in their boots. Um, but I'm curious, what got you into ACCE infinity? Was it the, you know, the big picture NFT, uh, play long-term or was it the staking rewards? Um, what about ACCE specifically?

Got you into it? Yeah, I think, um, it's a good question. We were looking for ways to play the NFT space and what we will never do at tokens at least for now is we'll never going to just buy an NFT parking on our balance sheet and sort of hope that it goes up. Um, we're always looking for assets that we can buy, but a, we look at the trends, like what are the, what are the high level trends happening in crypto?

And then we look at what are the assets that we can buy that will appreciate as a result of those trends. And then the number three criteria is can we use technology to earn revenue. And those are really the three things we're looking for. It has to meet that criteria. So when we looked at what was happening with the Axiom affinity and the excess and that mark Cuban behind it, we just thought that was interesting.

We decided to dip our toe in and get some exposure. We're looking at other cool things. Uh, I'm sure you guys have talked about, but we're looking at, uh, the metaverse maybe picking up some real estate in the metaverse. I think that's going to be the way people are talking about NFTs this year. I think in 12 to 24 months, people are going to be talking about the metaverse in the same way.

Hmm. Interesting. So you're looking at decentral land. Are there any particular metaverse

like, like decentral land is the one that I'm following the most closely, but we're looking at a few of them. The one I'm most familiar with to central land. I think it's super cool that during a COVID they held a music festival. Um, so like you go in there with your avatar and, you know, you buy your ticket and you go into a field and you can listen to like, you know, a pretty cool DJ spinning, spinning.

Um, I just think that the whole idea is pretty wild, but you have, you know, if I'd walk into I'm in Toronto, but if I walk through my city COVID and Amazon have killed the traditional real estate model where, you know, I see all these for lease signs everywhere I walk empty stores. And when I think about the potential here for the metaverse, which is you have a collection of people who are like-minded with their avatars and you're walking around and you have money to spend, um, and the land size is limited, right?

I mean, the central land is what the size of like Washington city or something. It's like, it's limited similar to Bitcoin. There's going to be a scarcity value there. And so owning this land and being able to develop it and create an amazing experience for the users and the people that are walking by. I find a really interesting cross section between real real estate, which is kind of faced.

And kind of where the future of real estate is, which is going to be these, these worlds, where we have all these people with money and looking to spend it. So, Andrew, if you were to get any. Oh, Logan. You mind if I have a follow-up question to this? Uh, we're lagging a little bit. Uh, I'm sorry if I cut you off sometimes Logan.

Um, but Andrew, so if you guys do end up picking up, uh, digital, real estate, stay in decentral and, or the sandbox or whatever, do you guys plan on developing the land and trying to monetize it like you do with your other investments? Or would this be more of a speculative investment for you guys? No, we would want to monetize it.

We same, same thing, buy stuff that we can generate revenue from. So, you know, I know, I think it's in decentral and galaxy digital. Um, there's areas you can walk by and they've partnered with, I think it was candy, but you can walk by and see like a billboard for galaxy digital. Um, there's a lot of value there and that you have what, three and a half million people using the, and right now you can walk by, you can use it as a digital space.

The zoning rules are pretty light. So can I create some kind of gaming, maybe a casino, if you do it again, there's different things you can do to create a user experience there where they they'll want to spend money. But ultimate dream is to create a, a real estate investment trust, like a REIT that pays out a dividend to shareholders, but it's entirely based on digital real estate.

Hm, I think we lost Ryan. Um, but I love the idea of creating a, uh, a metaverse read. I think that has a huge potential. I know, um, I've said this before on the show, but I've, I've heard someone like Gary V mentioning that there could be more jobs in the metaverse than in the real world, uh, looking long-term.

And that just blew my mind. Um, especially with the, with the advent of things like basic attention token, when users are being, uh, finally might be able to be paid for their data paid for their time, online, feeding these huge algorithms. Um, it's going to be crazy to see where the metaverse goes and how much potential value could be unlocked, um, within it.

So I want to toss it to Brian now, uh, for this question, I just highlighted them. So, uh, what made you decide to move from, I heard you were doing a lot of mining and Bitcoin mining and everything like that for mining to doing the tokens.com aspect. Yeah. Two main things that I really hated. So when I was, I was a CEO of a headache, uh, which as I said, it's a great company.

They're one of the largest miners in north America, one of the largest public miners. And what I really hated is, uh, every quarter you have to depreciate the hardware. And so you guys obviously know what would be a minor. You got to order your stuff primarily out of China. And it's got a better four year lifespan.

And that's because as the hash rate keeps moving up, you can only produce so much if it becomes obsolete. Um, so I, it was always having this big depreciation where at the end of the four years, you're your hardware isn't really worth anything. The other thing I hated was I would have at least one call a week from the media or environmentalist.

And they would tell me that Bitcoin was cool, but I was destroying the planet. And so it was kind of a combination of those things that I started looking around and saying, what else is out there? And I came across staking and I think staking was really created to improve upon proof of work. It was created as like, what are the flaws with crypto mining.

And how do you improve them? And staking uses 99.9% less electricity because it's based on ownership, not a massive processing power. So that's a win. And the second one is you can't do BFI really on mining because it's too slow and that's the problem Ethan's having. And that's why they're migrating the staking.

Um, so when you look at sort of like where the puck is going or where the future is that nobody builds anything on crypto mining proof of work technology anymore. It was like, okay, I've built this company. It's doing well, it's positioned to succeed, but I want to build something new here. Whereas I think things are going next.

I got you. That makes sense. Yeah. I definitely agree with that with, um, what do you think about, so the Binance smart chain and E uh, Ethereum going, if you're going to prove a stake and all that other stuff, where do you think all that's going to turn in the next five years? What do you see foresee for the future of everything we've just already talked about.

Yeah. So again, my purely my opinion, I think, outside of Bitcoin, um, in three years, you'll see, look at the top a hundred blockchains and there'll be like out of the top hundred, like 95, and then we'll be all proof of stake. I think, you know, crypto mining is, is, is going to be the way in the past. I think you're going to see a, a split when we started seeing that a little bit this week, but I think Bitcoin Bitcoin is not a defined crypto.

We all, we, we know that and understand that. I mean, there's lightning network. Maybe that could go in and change that. I know that's what they're trying to do over at square Jack Dorsey, but generally speaking, it's probably just going to be like the digital goal. Then it's going to start spending on its own over the last few years, everything sort of hits the same.

Like everything sort of hit all time highs like early may, then everything dropped at the same time. I think what you're going to see happen is there's going to be a split bifurcation between Bitcoin. As a, the G crypto that doesn't do a lot of in store value and it's still great and awesome. But then all of these other things that actually have applications and don't use electricity.

Um, eventually I, you know, I don't think it will happen in the next 24 months, but I do think it'll happen. And within 48 months, I do think equal flip that coin. I agreed. I told Logan before I've told Brian, I think there's probably like a third chance that it flips this market cycle, but of course that's just to be a speculation, but the use cases are definitely there for it.

Yeah. I mean, what is it? 80% of all defy products are in there are still being built on Eve. Despite there being a lot of other good alternatives that people continue to use, you know, Eve and, you know, you can solve the same thing. Remember all those Bitcoin forks, there was Bitcoin light Bitcoin cash, but critical the coin SB, those all were supposed to be improvements on Bitcoin because they would process faster.

The blocks contain more data. There's a whole bunch of stuff. They never took off. And so you might have a similar thing here that as Eve evolves to staking and eat 2.0 that Abel just become more dominant. That's a good point. But even with ease 2.0, transaction fees may be higher than some of these competitors say, like Solano and Binance smart chain.

Of course you're paying that price for the added security and the robust network of Ethereum. But how do you see this playing out with retail investors? Do you think that they'll actually care about decentralization and want to use a network because it is the most secure, or do you think that other projects like salon and Binance smart chain will gain these retail investors who might be priced out of Ethereum?

Uh, I do think that they're going to gain traction. Um, ultimately like when somebody goes to Ave or, or pancake, whoever, I don't know that they actually care who's behind it. I think they're looking at, you know, fees and how they can maximize their, you know, their borrowing lending or trading or whatever it is they're doing.

And, and ultimately. People act in their best economic interests. So as long as it continues to do it does, if it becomes too uneconomical relative to its competitors, we'll lose market share. Um, and I think that's inevitable. So we'll see what happens. It's really hard to predict, like you're saying that this is a real pivotal time, I think in crypto, because you do have all these things that are up and coming this Atlanta as a crutch, nanos, um, all these different things are challenging Eve.

And we'll see in the next six to 12 months, if there actually is adoption into those, um, the way people are expecting and pricing into the tokens. Hmm. So, um, when do you see ETH 2.0, launching? And do you think it's going to affect the proof of stake and everything that we have? Like, do you think it's going to affect all the chains?

You mean? Yeah. Sorry, can you repeat that? We'll never be able to successfully upgrade or launch. So E E 2.0, has already launched and we're staking it right now. We own about, uh, over 2,500 east 2.0 that we're staking and earning. And the, if you, I mean, there's lots of sites you can look that you can look at, but the adoption is, is moving pretty quickly.

I think at the last estimate, I saw that it was probably about another 24 months before the it's kind of a slow progression. It's not going to be, it's not an overnight flip into staking. I think it's, uh, uh, flipping into the evening. The other thing is when you're staking Eve, there's a, like a locked period or a bonding period, which I think this is really interesting and will help appreciate the value within here's why mining, which is predominantly how Ethas is secured right now, how the blocks are valid.

You have to still sell your Eve as a miner to pay for your electricity and your hardware, right? If you use a staking company or is it staking a token, the money stays within the ecosystem. As a Staker. I never have to sell my Eve to pay for stuff in the outside world. I can keep it in there and continue accumulating and compounding it.

And I think that's really smart decision because if you look at what's happening in Bitcoin during the crash, all the miners, the Bitcoin miners were like mining had to meet their costs. They were taking all their selling their Bitcoin as quickly as they could to pay for their costs in staking, the money stays within crypto because you know what, it was a really bad idea that you have to sell your crypto in order to pay for validating it.

This allows it to all stay within the ecosystem, which means less selling pressure. Hopefully. What do you think that means? ETH. What do you think that means for all the ETH quote unquote killers out there that are trying to be a better version of, you know, a POS at theory them? Yeah. I always say P POS tricky, tricky, uh, acronym, but yeah.

Um, I think they all function the same, so they all have different whole periods. So for example, dot is 28 days. Eve is a lot longer, but generally speaking that they're all different, but similar. And so they all keep as, as a staking tokens, they all keep their tokens within their own ecosystem. Um, so I don't know that that, that the staking aspect is really going to be what makes the decisions.

I think it's just going to be the usability, but my perspective is Eve can't move to eat 2.0 quickly enough. Um, because you know, at the very least, you know, right now, Crypto mining as a bottleneck for Eve it's like drinking water through a pinhole. Like it's, it's hard. It slows it down and you get the fees.

Will that change people sort of debate back and forth. But nonetheless, I think it's Eve is going to survive. It has to migrate to stay can quickly. Yeah. And for sure, we'll see, we'll see optimism arbitrary and all these layer twos, uh, kind of help along the way until we can get that, uh, the full sharding and the beacon docking.

Um, so I have a question for you about regulation. How do you think the next few months are going to play out in Canada or, or in the United States? Um, for the crypto markets and, um, could this affect price action? Yeah, it always seems when there's a rumor out there or the sec comes out with something that there is a lot of, um, movement on that, you know, it's a bit of a loaded question.

Like I think the key thing right now, everyone's looking at as this Coinbase sec battle, right. And I always say follow the money. And if you look at, you know, who sort of backs and influences the sec, it's the bank. And so I don't think it's a coincidence that they're like, you're not allowed to lend money.

People are not allowed to make money. What was a 2.8% that they're offering it? Wasn't like, it wasn't anything crazy. It wasn't something crazy. But if you were a bank, this has got to be pretty intimidating. Right. And I know even from our company, you know, sending a wire, if you've ever had to send a wire through a bank, you have to get it there by like three o'clock.

If you don't get it there by three, it's got away the next day and the money disappears for like 24 hours. And then you got to check the Atlanta, not lad. It's a really silly system and they'll charge you like 50 to a hundred bucks per transaction. It's still pretty amazing that with, you know, I know eat the fees can be high, but even with Bitcoin that I can send any amount of Bitcoin almost anywhere in the world, 24 hours a day.

Anytime I want, I can do it within 10 to 20 minutes and it'll cost me like a dollar 50, if I pay for, you know, to prioritize it, right. Like. The banking system. This is why defy in my mind is just going to be the it's a massive game changer and wall street. It is embracing it. And Silicon valley is embracing it.

It's just like the traditional banks that are, I think they're really scared because they can see their business model no longer works. Right. It's like being a taxi driver and trying to fight Uber. Eventually you will lose. Yeah. ACH is a definitely a outdated system and just needs to go away, just cash checking and all that.

So hopefully that. And have you ever tried to send money abroad? I remember I'm from Chile that you guys pointed out. So sometimes I I'll send, I want to send some Viet to like my cousins or something as a gift. Like, you'd go, you've gotta fill out pieces of paper, the switch system, and like, what's that bank's code.

And then it's got to go through a bunch of other banks by the time it gets there, you've lost 10% of your money given all the different fees. And it takes four to six days, right? Like. It's like a, it's like using a buggy and horse, you know, to get around, right. Like it's an old system. And then today, like the technology is here.

I should be able to send money to anybody in the world that I want within 15 minutes and not have to pay more than $5 and lose 10% of what I'm sending. Boom, exactly. I mean, it makes sense today and looking back it's like you said, the horse and buggy is a perfect analogy there. Uh there's really no. Or, and Trish finance certainly should be scared.

Yeah. Yeah. And, and, and, and proof of work token should be scared too. All the stuff like, I mean, the majority of the proof of work tokens are there, but all these, like the coin forks, like, are, are they going to become a less relevant? I know they use them for some testing, but no one's programming anything on, you know, some of these things that I am aware of it, cause it would be kind of like creating apps where a flip phone, right.

It's like, it's a. Only doge coin right now, but you know, that's part of it, but you're right. You know, all those were created before the proof of stake model came out. So yeah. Uh, Andrew, do you think that we could ever see a proof of stake? Bitcoin? Do you think that that, that network has the ability to make an upgrade of that size?

So I am not the most technical guy. I'll give you my opinion. I put this down on Twitter wines and men like Bitcoin maximalists are so fanatical. They go crazy. Like literally started getting so much hate messages. I do think at some point in four to five years, when the, the energy use and Bitcoin, the hash rate goes up, I think there could be potential consideration and people may hate this.

Maybe there's some kind of a hard fork or something into something that uses less electricity. You're staking similar to what. Um, but I think there's going to be, again, I don't understand that the technicalities behind it, but I'm pretty sure if like the entire Bitcoin ecosystem got together and said, let's form this into something with the same value, but that it has more processing power and uses less energy.

There might be support there isn't today. Um, I think it's like sacrilege and people listening to me would be like, that'll never happen. But I just think that that the hash rate is going to continue to go up. And at some point there'll be more and more prevalent. You know, you got some real fanatical people on the other side of the United States, like Elizabeth Warren who are wanting to shut crypto down.

And so at some point, you know, Bitcoin has an optics problem. It's kind of like a reputation problem. I think they need to figure out something to do as a community beyond just like the Bitcoin council that Michael Saylor started to talk to you on Musk. If the technology is there to use less electricity than they think that the Bitcoin developers and people behind the chip should explore that.

Yeah, well, Bitcoin is certainly not new to having these, uh, uh, you know, public appearance problems. They've been called us all sorts of things since inception. Uh, so hopefully we'll be able to see public embracement long-term uh, I think, uh, as you know, Ryan and my generation continued to grow up in, you know, Weldon become a bigger part of the market than my frozen.

Now you're now you're just rude. Well, our brains are boomer. Geez. Uh, I think our generation is more crypto native, and I think that we'll see this play out pretty well longterm. Uh, and, and I think that you agree, um, by Andrew, thank you so much for coming on and chatting with us today. Uh, it was insightful and we'd love to have you back on in the future before we wrap up, I just want to open the floor up to you to give any shout outs or leave the audience with any final thoughts you have.

Yeah, I would just say if you want that check out tokens.com. Um, we've got some good information on there. I think someone was looking to get exposure to crypto, but didn't want to go through the process of setting stuff up. I think we're a really great alternative for people to consider. We started trading in the U S today under OTC.

Um, and so now we are training in Europe, Canada, and the us. So, um, yeah. Look us up, link in the description below. Go check it out, guys. Andrew, thank you so much for joining us today. Uh, thanks. Alrighty. Uh, Mahesh, let me grab that link for you. It is in the description below it's tokens.com, pretty simple. Um, yeah.

So what did you guys think, uh, of the interview today? What'd you guys think of tokens.com? I think there's definitely, I mean, there's clearly, there's clearly a need for it. There's clearly a demand for it. Lots of people don't want to go through the hassle hassle of custody and their own crypto, uh, and you know, trying to figure out how to earn interest on all these different platforms, how to stake on these different networks.

How many wallets do you have to keep track of? Um, I, I think it's a good product and clearly it's been very successful. I like it better than. Um, and they have the huge markup. I don't like that. You think that millennials aren't ready for crypto and it's only gen Z, but we can talk about that later. Uh, go back to eating your Abacus benefits or money on avocado toast.

How are they supposed to buy Bitcoin? And you guys weren't even born when Bitcoin was around. Yeah, you're right. That's a good one. Now you got me there. I wasn't born until last week, so geez. I'm pretty new to this whole thing. G jeez, Ryan. All right. You want to do well a Mooner bus today. We have about 60 seconds left.

Uh, I saw someone talking about VJ in earlier and maybe we could talk about that. We tasers and we, we, we talked about V train a couple of times, but I don't think we've talked about taser at all. Maybe we should talk about tasers. They've been popping off lately. A lot of these, uh, different, these other projects that like kind of got left behind from Ethereum blowing up and buying it, smart chain, blown up and everything like that.

There's some pretty cool things that are going to happen. And I think a lot of people believe that, you know, it's only going to be Bitcoin. It's only gonna be a theory. Um, but there's so much, there's a lot of people in the world. There's a lot of time, there's a lot of people into different things. So I think there's room more than enough room for everybody to get a piece of.

Guys my, my, uh, birth certificate exists on chain only. I am an on chain asset in case we were wondering I was minted, not born. Uh, okay. So here we go. Here stays as a yellow, too funny. Um, here's tasers, let's pull up the seven day. The one month is certainly on a tear. Let's see how it's been doing since the beginning of the year.

Ooh. It looks like we're in price discovery mode. This might be a good time to pick some up. Um, tasteless is another smart contract blockchain. Um, it's not talked about a whole lot, but it is in the top 30, a market cap of $6.6 billion. Um, do you guys hold any tasers? What do you think about it? I, I don't hold any, but I do like it, um, in the sense that I, I, like I just said, I think there's room for a lot of these others to grow and to get to the potential, you know, really big returns down like.

I don't hold any taser though. So it's definitely an interesting project. And at $6.6 billion market cap, you could see a 10 X by the end of the market cycle, in my opinion, that would bring it to $66 billion market cap, very expensive, but still quite a bit less than Cardona. And I do think Tesaro's has smart contracts on it.

If I'm not mistaken, I believe they do. Um, and yeah, so it looks like they're, they're one of their defining features is the ability to upgrade without a hard fork. Um, I don't know if this is necessarily a good thing. I've heard metallic make the argument that that hard forks are actually more inclusive, um, because you're not forced to adopt the upgrade.

Like you are in a soft. Uh, you can choose to take the other path, but, um, I'm sure that they have learned from all these years of blockchains and forks and they're doing something pretty cool. I'm going to have to, uh, dig in while I hold a little bit of taser. So I really just picked it up because I heard people talking about it.

Um, but this was like a long time ago. I really haven't been active in the ecosystem since then, but it's up 18% today, so that's pretty cool. Um, I'm gonna give this one a moon. What do you guys think? Yeah, I mean, it's, it's, it's one of those quote unquote old school and I used that in crypto, in crypto, uh, years, but it, it, yeah, I like it.

It has a lot of room. It's just like up there with the other ones we were talking about today. There's definitely potential and there's no reason why it would fail. I think it would. I'll give it its third moon too. I mean, obviously this asset sector is hot right now. Proof of stakes, smart contract blockchain.

That's where all the hype is right now. We've seen it with Cardona. We've seen it with all the other blockchains out there, polka dots, Ilana. So I wouldn't be surprised if we see a much higher present tasers. So yes, I give it a moon. Awesome. And you guys can pick this up on coin. It's a crack in, I think we got some links in the description down below.

If you want a little sign up bonus, if you're making a new account, go check those out. Um, but I'll stop with the promos. Silly me. Um, okay, so killing me, loading Ross. So this whole thing is just a sponsored, sponsored advertisements. Uh, okay. That's enough. Um, speaking of, well, we have replacement. Follow me on Twitter.

Check it out. That's all I got. Check us all out on Twitter. We'll give you some dope. Uh, and speaking of checking other things out, state tune to Benzing as YouTube channel, we got more great content coming up for you today. We got pre-market prep at the close. Uh, I'm not sure if that's the next show. If we got trivia beforehand, but whatever it is, stay tuned.

You don't want to miss it. It will redirect you automatically. So don't go anywhere. Don't touch anything. The Touche par thank you. This has been wound or bust your home for all things. All coins and defy. We will see you on Wednesday with another sick interview. We have the Salada Phantom wallet. You don't want to miss it.

You guys got anything else? Any closing remarks for us? Not yet too many Twitter followers lately. Guys, I've been really sad about it, but a little depressed. Haven't been able to get out of bed every day. Really. So if you can just, um, attitude that they have the Z attitude, but yeah, I've been really sad about it guys.

So cheer me up, please follow me on Twitter. Alright. On that note, we'll see you Wednesday.

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Guests:

Ben Armstrong(Bitboy Crypto)

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Meet The Hosts:

Brian Moir

Solidity and React Developer | Blockchain Enthusiast | Decentralized Internet Advocate | Crypto investor since 2012

https://twitter.com/moirbrian

Logan Ross

Blockchain Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain | Crypto investor and educator since 2016

https://twitter.com/logannross

Ryan McNamara

Bought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | Liquidated on ByBit | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2016 (sorry planet Earth) | $UNI Bag Holder

https://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamara

Disclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.

Unedited Transcript

What's up zinger nation. Welcome back to moon or bust your home for all things. All coins and defy. Today, we have a sick episode coming at you. I'm going to bring on my co-hosts. Now we have the defy developer himself. Brian Moore. How are you doing today, Brian? Doing all right. My back is killing me, but I'm happy to be.

Great man. I'm actually having some audio issues right now. I can't hear y'all, but I'm just going to roll with the punches. We also have Ryan exit liquidity, McNamara. How are you, Ryan? I, I'm not gonna be able to hear you. Let me try to figure this out. Uh, y'all do me a favor. You hear me out about the markets real quick?

I can hear you just fine, Brian. I'm doing well. I would ask Logan how he's doing. Cause I know he loves to be asked that, but he cannot hear us. Yeah. But yeah, let's get straight into the market update. We got some news for you guys and then we'll be interviewing bit boy crypto. So definitely stay tuned for that.

You know, the markets have been going crazy. I would be saying, you know, it's a great day. I love my life. But you know, a couple days ago I did buy that did buy that year. It's gone down. I told you guys like, keep you up. Price wars around five Eve. Now I got it for seven. So, you know, I'm going to hold it. I think it's a blue chip NFTE.

I think it'll go up. Uh, once eats starts slowing down. I think a lot of people just want to be in Ethereum right now while the prices are ripping. So, I mean, it is what it is. I wish I had a little bit more ether. That's seven ethic is goodbye for that. You know, I kind of wish I kinda wish I held it for this run-up but there's not much you can do.

And I think the price floor is holding pretty strong, right around five. That is if he doesn't keep ripping, I mean, we're at $4,000 right now, per Ethereum. Just about all time highs. $4,300 to $4,400. So we're getting really close to new all time high, which in my opinion, that's pretty surprising because I mean, Bitcoins right around $50,000.

So, I mean, we're still about 25% of the way to a new Bitcoin all-time high yet. We're only about five to 10% away to a new Ethereum all time high. So we see a theorem leading the markets yet. Again, Brian, you have any hot takes with Ethereum and Bitcoin right now. Well, I want to start off saying that I think you'll be just fine with your ape.

I think that it was still a good buy at a good purchase rather. And, um, you'll, you'll make a good return. It it's a solid staple now. The future generation of NFTs. I mean, it was crypto punks. Now as 40 now you've got the mutant, you're a part of that ecosystem. I think it'll be great for Ethereum. I am super excited to pass 4k and hold.

It looks like it got, um, held back after at the 4k mark. It didn't quite make it, it did make it pass it then got rejected pretty quickly. Uh, BTC is holding up above 50 K, which. That's always exciting. That's a great thing. Again, time after time, we're calling these shots. We're calling these prices us three, just.

It doesn't matter. We're right. That's just how it works. You guys got to stay tuned in. We've been making really good calls lately. We'll see where it goes. You know, minus my NFT, we've been making some good calls. I have a new call to make. I think we will be seeing a $57,000 Bitcoin within the next week.

So you heard it here first? I think we're going to 57. I like it. I accept 4k. You know, Bitcoin is now following Ethereum. That's just the way it goes in 2021 theory is no longer all coin. And I, for 1:00 AM excited to see a theorem flipping a coin, this markets. Oh shit. So you changed your life all summer long and you said, no, it's not going to happen.

Why didn't you change your mind, Ryan? I said, there's probably like a third chance that it happens. So I still think that, you know, it's a possibility, it's definitely not inevitable at this point. Why people still don't even know what Ethereum is? I think Bitcoin has a lot of buying pressure when it comes to institutions getting in on Bitcoin.

So it's definitely going to be a big battle for Ethereum to flip Bitcoin, but I'd say it's probably 50% chance at this point, this market cycle, I think. I don't know about more likely than not, but there's definitely a good chance at this point. I think so, too. I agree with that. I think 57 is a little high, but I like the 55 range.

I think within the next week, two weeks, we're going to see 55. Um, I think we're going to see a theorem push the 4,200 mark and Bitcoin, the 55 57 mark. And I think that's when we're going to go a little bit more sideways for. Or we're going to rip to all new highs everywhere around, I mean, sonar, he mentioned Solana is ripping.

Yeah. That's that's my boy that, uh, what I say is so long ago, mez, that's my girl. It's going to just keep on popping. It's going to keep on rolling. I'm all about it. I like it more than a Binance smart chain at the moment because of the potential. Uh, that it has, so crypto is looking good right now. We didn't even see Solana flip doge this morning.

That was pretty cool. Smart contracts or something. That's crazy. Solana has smart contracts on it, so you don't even have to wait if you're in Cardona and you're waiting. Why, why, wait, why wait so long has that. So we're at $95 billion market capitalization for car Dano, and we're at a $41 billion market capitalization for Solano.

So, I mean, we could see if, if Ana can compete with Dano and, and come to a similar market cap. I mean, we could see Solano around $250. I would not be surprised if we got to that range within the next few months with you guys. Oh, I think it's definitely possible. Especially with the, with the SPF backing.

FTX is just pumping Salana, they're going to get more integrated into all these different things. We're going to see some cross chain action going on, connecting to a theory, and then a bunch of people are going to be bridging over. Um, just for those low gas fees. What about the Solana NFTs? Do you guys think that, that those have had an impact on Solano?

Oh, absolutely. That that's, that's what started the whole rip and Roran that, uh, the DJ and apes, they that's what, put it off the map and now everyone's going, this will actually work. It's not just some random half chain and also a Axiom infinity is now I'm buying it smart chain, which is pretty cool too.

I think we'll, we'll take, uh, I think probably not Monday because we're not having an episode, but. Episode, we might get into that a little bit, cause that's kind of big news, but, um, NFTs are changing the game again, but even more than they were, you know, back in January or February. So that's really cool.

Alrighty. Uh, so I see bit boy just popped in backstage. I'm going to get the interview started right now. I'll pull my screen up and I'm going to bring Ben on. Hey Ben, how's it going? Pretty good. It's good to encrypt them. Yeah. Yes it is. Hey, I loved your keynote at the Benzinga crypto festival this week.

Thanks for stopping by and thanks for coming on Muna bust as well. I love it, man. I liked the name. Appreciate it. So before we get into crypto, I want to talk cars a little bit. I know you have a health. Uh, it is the Lambo coming soon. Yeah. So, well, technically I don't have a helicopter got a demon, so no, I did.

I did have a Hellcat. I had a 20, 21 Hellcat redeye and, um, it actually got stolen at the airport back in April when I went on a trip to Florida. So learning the lesson don't don't drive that thing to the airport and I bought the demon. So it's 2018. It had 15 miles on it when I bought it. So it's more car is actually faster than the Lambo.

Uh, the Lamborghini is a, um, it's the STO. So it's the STO it's the best one. Thing's amazing. The STO is so cool. So I basically had to go through, uh, a dealer in, uh, in Florida in Jacksonville. And the GM there had one personally built and he's going to sell me that one. They got, they got an incentive thing or to get all the incentives as a dealer, they have to wait three months to sell it.

So it's already in, I'm just waiting until that three month date, which will actually be right around my birthday near the end of October. And a nice little birthday present is black interiors, black and yellow. And we'll put some yellow accents, you know, kind of some wraps on the outside to highlight the curves.

I'm super stoked. I mean, that's going to land, but what, what is there after that you're done. That's it? That's it. That's the goal though? Investors? Uh, well, you know, we haven't paid for it yet. I mean, we're going to pay for it, you know, um, all at one time. So we're definitely going to ask if they'll take crypto, uh, but we'll have some money moved over just in case it's 450 K so it's uh, it's it's uh, yeah.

That's awesome. Congratulations. Yeah. Congrats. That's that's thing. Uh, okay. So, uh, if there's anyone out there who hasn't seen your channel before, uh, could you talk to us about what got you into crypto and then what made you want it to start making it YouTube content? Yeah. Sure. So if anybody watch my keynote with the Benzinga crypto conferences the other day, I told the story about how I got into crypto.

Just a quick summary is I got into Bitcoin in 2012. It was 12 bucks. First time I bought 1196, somewhere around there. And, uh, you know, To pay for a service. I was paying for a software that I was using it wasn't Silkroad related. A lot of people.

I know you probably spent 30 Bitcoin on some mushrooms. No, that didn't happen. So. Uh, no, I use it to buy it, to pay for a software. And, you know, I sold it all in 2013. Uh, what I had my account, it was a few thousand dollars. And to my family on a little vacation, we went down to the beach and, uh, paid off a couple of bills.

And I thought that was it. Then in 2014, Mt. Gox got hacked. And I thought that was the end of crypto. So I bought and sold a little bit in between 2014, 2017, but, uh, 2017 was when. I was just sick. Like I was looking at the price going up and I kept calculating how much money I had. Cause I had spent over 2000.

Uh, on Bitcoin in between about 10 and 60 bucks. And so, you know, thinking about how rich I should have been, and I was there like struggling to pay bills and, you know, you know, by Christmas kids or a Christmas present for the kids and stuff. And I was just like, man, I really missed out on this opportunity.

I wonder if there's any way I can salvage it. And so I decided to go all in on crypto because I really believed in, I love decentralization. Uh, I hate, you know, the tech autocracy that we have to live with that tells us what to do and runs our government really these days. And so the idea of crypto really reverberated with me.

And so in 2018, I decided to start a YouTube channel. It was going to be a cartoon as were bit boy came from. And, uh, over time, like, it just wasn't a time where people wanted to have fun content because it was a bear market. And so my, all my friends, he encouraged me like, Hey, start news videos. We will care what you have to think.

You know, you've got a good way of communicating. So started the channel over about two years, nobody watched. And then all of a sudden, uh, you know, starting in January of 2020 and things really started blowing up. And, uh, you know, now we've got the biggest. And all crypto. No, that's awesome. Congratulations.

Yeah, very cool. So you've been in cryptocurrency for quite a while. I know Brian, he got some Bitcoin back in 2012 or 2013. So he feels, he feels your pain there, you know, getting in at such a cheap price, you know, if you would have only simply held, but I mean, that's what it is. Yeah. I mean, that's cryptocurrency for you though.

And then you go down the rabbit hole, you learn so much, and there's so many different projects out there. So I'm interested in knowing what are some of your all time favorite cryptocurrency projects. And also, did you ever have. Favorite cryptocurrency projects, you were really bullish on, say maybe back in 20 17, 20 18 during the ICO craze, I actually went.

Oh, yeah. Yeah, I got, I got a good one there. Um, I'll start there and then I'll go with, uh, you know, my, my all time favorites, uh, the one that went bust was called spective. It was S P E C T I V. And the idea of it, uh, or the ticker symbol was SIG. And the idea of it was awesome. Uh, and this is what we see with a lot of these ICO's and when Boston's, the ideas are great, similarly to like, during the, uh, Dot com bubble the.com boom, like pets.com was a great idea.

It was just 20 years too early. I mean, you look now there's what, what is the one now art box, like that's basically pest.com, you know? And so it was just, the idea was too early. And so this was a, what we are seeing now with Oculus and what we're seeing now with a Sikh VR, some of these virtual reality projects, it was just ahead of its time.

It was a virtual. Uh, platform where you could go to sports, different sporting events. Now this was before the pandemic. So we didn't know, you know, this, this would be a thing down the road, you know, that was super relevant, but you go to concerts, go to sporting events. You could go to theme parks and ride roller coasters in virtual reality.

And I just thought, man, this is such a great idea. I think this is going to be huge. And this project doesn't even exist anymore. You know, that was one in, I lost a lot of money on that one. Um, at the time, you know, it was a large part of my portfolio. I was like, this is a coin of going all in on. Uh, and so I put a bunch of money into it and then it went to literally zero.

Uh, it's not even around anymore. They do no development on it. So, uh, that's when. My friend, who was the person who encouraged me to do the news videos early on, like, that's the big joke between us always, you know, we still talk about SIG. Like that was the one we spent hours trying to learn how to use a decentralized exchange to get it to, you know, six hours.

I can never get back, but because that's how long it took back in the early days to use a deck, trying to figure it out, it took me six hours to make it. It was extremely complicated. I mean, I had every, you know, tab known demand open on my Chrome browser was trying to figure out how to do it. Uh, but as far as favorite projects, um, you know, I mean, obviously, uh, Ethereum is, is probably my all time favorite project.

I mean, I absolutely love. The decentralized internet. Um, I know now we've got web three and we've got other projects, you know, polka dot. They were working on similar stuff. But I mean, the theory is really the one that started this movement and I'm just not a fan of the few making decisions for everybody.

And I hate that. I go totally against that in every regard. And so because of that, I love a decentralized internet and I think he can actually, this is somebody I say a pretty good bit is that, you know, people always love to say. Crypto in blockchain, it's in the wild west, right? You guys heard people. Oh, yeah.

All the time. That's a lie. The internet is still in the wild west. And so de-centralization and blockchain has a way to actually stabilize a lot of the deepest and darkest and worst parts of internet technology and the way it can be used. I mean, I always like to use the example of, you know, we should not be living in a world where an eight year old can grab his mom's phone and pull up hardcore pornography and.

Like one minute seems like a pretty big, pretty big gap there between what we should have. And then what's reality now for it's consenting adults, whatever they want to do, but children shouldn't be able to do that. And yet they can do that all the time. It's a big problem in schools and, you know, I could go on and on about it.

That's a big flaw with the internet right now and blockchain through identity verification. I think one day, you know, you're going to have your phone tied to your identity. We know Google has the ability to censor images that go on the search results. So we know phones have that ability too. So. You know, person to person, you know, a 14 year-old, can't be sending a, you know, a 14 year old pictures on their phone and stuff like that, their identity who he tied to, they just couldn't see it.

Um, the phone would not allow it. So that's just one example of something I think is a really big flaw in the interview. The blockchain can solve very easily. And then we've got tons of other problems out there from identity fraud to, um, you know, credit card fraud. So many things that can be tied in a better way to our digital identities, which Cardona, you know, might play a role in is they're working on a lot of that stuff, trying to win a contract with the European union.

Um, but you know, back to back to a theory, I think it can solve through smart contracts. Basically every major problem we have on the. It's got the biggest developer in community. I made a lot of money on it theories over the years, we were telling people to buy it when it was under a hundred dollars. Uh, people that listen, they're doing very well right now, people that didn't listen, you know, they continue to kick themselves.

And hopefully at some point they got in, uh, Cardona is also a project that I do love Ethereum competitor, but, um, you know, some of my favorite projects, uh, you know, just to kind of list a few outside of Ethereum, uh, Cardona. Polygon car Tessy V chain. Uh, you know, chain-link, these are my favorite. Yeah, you pretty much all mine.

You should tell Ryan Cardona one more time. Let's see. Yeah, let's dig into that for a second. Um, so Ryan, you aren't bullish on Cardona as much as some of the rest of us are. Uh, maybe you could explain why. Yeah. First, I'd like to clear this up. I am bullish on Cardona. I think we'll probably see between eight to $12 by the end of this market cycle for Cartano.

So I think there's really good returns to be made, but I like to invest in more so in the community and the ecosystem. I know Cartano has a great community around it, but they don't really have much of an ecosystem going on because they don't have smart contracts released yet. Um, so I like to see the adoption.

I like to see the value locked say on Solano with the serum decks, for example, has over a billion dollars now. And it's about half the market cap of Cartano. Um, Ethereum obviously has like over a hundred billion dollars locked at this point within its ecosystem and the most users by far. So, I mean, there there's pros and cons to all of this stuff, but I think that Cardinal is promising.

And hopefully they deliver, but we haven't seen too much beetle delivered yet. So, I mean, maybe I'll get more bullish on Cardona once those smart contracts are released. And I see how that ecosystem develops because yeah, it sounds great on paper, but until we actually see it play out, I'm personally not in.

Yeah. I think the Cardona has a lot of big followers, especially because of Charles Hoskinson his presence. Um, but Ben, I'm curious to hear what your take is, why you're so bullish on Cardona over something like Salana that already has the ecosystem going for it. Yeah. Well, I would say Solana is all scammy, but that's, that's, that's a whole different, that's a whole different story.

Now. We love salon as a project. We love the serum decks. We think, oh, I've been bullish on Selana for ever, but a digital currency group who runs all our crypto in roundabout ways has, uh, has their hooks in that thing. Very solid. And look, if you think that the Solano pump we've had this week is based upon its growing ecosystem, that I've got a, a bridge to know why is it pumping?

Because just last week it was reported that the number one coin institutional money was, was going into. Was Salada number two was Cardona. Number three was a theory for the first time ever. Solano was number one. And right after we get this news, it pumps like 70% big shocker. The big money drives the entire ecosystem in the markets.

And that's what we saw. It has nothing to do with their growing ecosystem, Ricard Dano with their ecosystem. Like I love to talk about like, uh, w when it comes to debates I have with. It's always like to have timelines, you know, like, you know, people will talk about, you know, Bitcoin having a lengthening cycle, like, okay, when's the date when we can say that that is or is not true.

I like to have things that we can look at. Okay, you're right. I was wrong or vice versa. This is one of those things with Cardona, like great. You have nine days left to make that argument. You got nine days left to make the argument that they have no ecosystem. Right after that nine days, you're going to see car Dano is going.

Fastest most explosive growing ecosystem we have ever seen in crypto, and it's not even going to be close. So two months from now, its ecosystem is going to be probably five times bigger than Solanas. That's probably not an exaggeration. If you look at all of the projects that are lined up to launch, Ancar donno, it blows salon is a way now, as long as growing, it's doing.

But two months from now, you're just not gonna be able to make that argument. And the thing that I don't like about the Cartano haters is they, and, and really what I don't like about haters in any realm of the world is they're just constantly moving the goalposts. You know, at first it was like, well, they don't even have anything.

So then they get all their code together and they're like, okay, well now they don't have a main net. They're not even watching it. And they launch their main net. Then they're like, well, the roadmap is usually they're never getting more contracts. Well, here come the smart contracts, like every piece of the, of the way it's been criticized.

But at some point, that decision point is going to be now and all of those arguments are going to be invalid. And so that's coming very soon. I love Charles Hoskins and he's one of what I believe to be the few authors. One of the few authentic people in crypto, I don't believe anything that comes out of the mouths of anybody from grayscale.

Reading like Coinbase or anybody from CoinDesk or coin tell a lie. I don't believe any of those people. Charles Hopkins, Johns Hopkins, somebody that you can actually listen to and he may, he may be wrong about something. He actually believes what he says, you know, Eric Vorhees, Alex Mashinsky, these are other people I put in that same category.

So, um, I definitely believe that, uh, Coronado is going to be everything they say it's going to be, and it's got 71% of the total supply locked up in nodes. So from a price perspective, it's already going to crush it. So, you know, I'm just waiting for the ecosystem to match the hype and it is going to have.

The fact is there is no real relationship. Just like I told you a Solana, there's no relationship between the price of a project and the fundamentals and its use case. There's just no connection, especially at this point in a bull market. So Ricardo, there's no connection between the speculation and what they actually have already.

Uh, but when they launch a smart contracts that should strengthen the speculation, but it will be many, many years before we actually see a connection between successful projects in. Awesome. So, uh, you mentioned something earlier about lengthening cycles. I think that'd be a great segue into our next question.

Um, so you say that the, the bull run is going to end by this year, correct? But yeah, this month, by the end of this year, by this month, really? Yeah. So September 28th is a date that I've said, uh, for about a year and a half, almost two years. Now, there there's a lot of evidence to base that off of now. The individual date is not important.

I'm not Nostradamus or a bit moisture. Like I don't have the exact date. The thing that's more important to understand. That's a marker. That is a marker for approximately when the bull run from. Bitcoin should end it's based on something called the golden bull ratio. When you look back at the history of the Bitcoin cycles, they're evenly matched between the first half of the cycle before the happening and the second half after the happening or the having.

So we know generally when this should end, now, I've always said, give or take. Now starting to think maybe two weeks we could go into the middle of October, possibly around the Fort, you know, somewhere between the 12th and the 15th, but that's me just trying to pad just in case I I'm I'm wrong. I still think it's going to be by the first week of October, it's going to be over.

We're going to see explosive movement for Bitcoin, uh, over this month. And then next month, this thing is going to die down. However, all coins are going to run for considerably longer. Uh, I've always said between Halloween. Uh, but I do believe that because we only have one, all coins cycle to base that on.

Uh, we have four Bitcoin cycles. We've got one all coin cycle. So because of that, it could be longer. It could be shorter, but I would definitely lean towards a longer all coin season. Uh, I've always said Thanksgiving should wrap it up, uh, but could possibly go, you know, to, to Christmas, somebody says I make all my predictions based on whole.

Well, they're good. It's a good time to Fiji to make sure you see what, what timeframe you're looking at. Cause you know, Christmas, Halloween for the July, all that stuff, you can break it up pretty easily. I get that. Exactly. So are you surprised that Eve is leading the way right now? Um, and then also, what do you expect BTC to be around during that peak?

Okay. So I do not find it surprising that Ethereum is leading the way I have a theory. I'm definitely EIB 1559 is what kicked us off. And we knew EIP 1559 was going to have some significant price action on Bitcoin. It's not a buy the rumor, sell the news event, kind of like the, the salon of hackathon, which is all a joke.

Um, But, you know, this is actually a fundamental thing that affects the price because it makes a theory of deflationary instead of inflationary. And now it's looking like, you know, recently more deflationary than even Bitcoin. So, um, it was just supposed to make it less inflationary, but. Regardless. It is moving maybe to deeply coronary.

So that's a fundamental effect, you know, supply and demand that does compound into factoring into the price. Um, so it, it doesn't surprise me though. If someone asked me, uh, last week, they said, you know, what's going to hit an all time high, first Bitcoin or Ethereum. And I said a theorem and it looks like that could be true.

I don't have. Let me pull up the chart right now and take a quick, pull up the price. Yeah, there he is. At 39 63. It's just been hovering right around 4k. So I mean, we are less than 400 bucks away from an all-time high for it. So I can't imagine Bitcoin pumping. You know, $14,000 from here and a theory I'm not taking up 400, so Miriam is going to hit all time highs first.

Uh, I've always said that, you know, the, one of the markers for this bull run is going to keep referring back to predictions I made years ago, uh, two years ago. And the reason for that is pretty simple as now that we're very close to all of these timelines that I've talked about for a long time. It's more to be able to watch and understand I'm not making these predictions based on last week.

Like these are all numbers and dates I've had in mind for. So when it comes to, to, um, you know, Bitcoin and Ethereum specifically, um, I've always said that one of the markers of this bull run would be by the end of it, uh, theorem will be a household name by the end of 2017. Bitcoin was a household name didn't mean everybody was in bed.

But during that peak, everybody knew what Bitcoin was. They could tell you it was digital money. They may not have bought it, but they knew a friend who did, or they saw something on CNBC. They knew what Bitcoin was a very loose sense. By the end of this bull run, a barium will do the same thing. So it's always outperformed.

Ever since it was around no reason to think that that's going to, you know, not continue. So, you know, it is the returns or Bitcoin gets smaller and smaller over these cycles. That only makes sense that people would shift more towards a theory. So as far as top price for Bitcoin, um, my original price, when we were looking at, uh, Uh, super explosive bull run was around the stock and flow number.

Um, the number was $289,000 to start to flow commodities chart that that is applied to Bitcoin. I thought we'd see a $300,000 Bitcoin, but unfortunately we saw a lot of manipulation from the institutions as we always see. It chopped out the remote side of this bull run. So that means that we are no longer looking at a two, three, $400,000 Bitcoin.

Like a lot of people believe you can't just chop three months out and get to the same price. So in my opinion, a hundred to $120,000 will be the absolute tops for this book. And the craziest most wild, you know, moonish prediction I can make, I could think of maybe it runs to 150 to 160 K, but I don't see that happening.

I definitely think somewhere I'm looking specifically about $110,000, uh, to be the top right there between a hundred K and 120, it will hit a hundred K this year though. And it's going to happen fast. This is all going to happen. So, what do you think about, uh, like, um, are you familiar with Benjamin Cohen?

His lengthening cycles? I like him. I met him on the show. You know, people think I don't like him cause I always talk about his cycles, but he's got, he's got a lot of influence out there and I just, I just happen to think he dropped. Yeah. Yeah, no, for sure. It's, it's re I mean, no one knows. Right. We'll have to wait and see.

Um,

I mean, if you have more thoughts on, on, uh, like your case against the lengthening cycles, I'd be curious to hear. Sure. Yeah. So, you know, I've never believed in lengthening, sorry. It may be a week longer, but, but basically his premise is it's going to be many months longer. A lot of people believe that we're going to be peeking out in, uh, 2022.

And that's simply just not going to happen. There. There's a lot of reasons for that. There's a lot of technical reasons or a lot of fundamental reasons. And more importantly, there's a lot of manipulation reasons, uh, that we're not going to see that, uh, the big talking point from the government lately has been inflation.

When have you ever heard the governor? Warning people about inflation. That that doesn't make sense. Right? So you got to wonder what's really going on in the fall. Maybe late fall, we are going to be moving from inflation to deflation. I understand it defies logic. It defies logic. We see all the money printing.

We saw the stimulus, but now you look at Wells Fargo cutting personal credit accounts also. Corporate credit accounts, but knows when this happened to why would they be doing that? They're trying to hold on to more of their own money. We have the eviction moratorium that was, uh, you know, tried to be extended at all costs.

They say, of course it for political reasons, uh, the administration wanted to make it look like they were trying to put that in place for votes, but that's over, which means you're no longer protected from eviction. If you can't pay your rent, which means you actually have to pay your rent. Most of the people by.

That that, that, uh, we're granted that more. Could work. Cause we know only 50% of jobs in America were shut down on average, 30% of all jobs in America during the deepest part of the pandemic were still considered to be essential. Okay. So the point here is this is that there's a lot of free money. That is stopping.

Why is the government stopping the free money train? Well, that would be because the government itself is also trying to hold onto their money. We're looking at bond yield tapering, which is the key to this whole thing that will be happening probably sometime in November, between October and November, that is going to have a big impact on the economy.

And it has a big effect on the stock market. We are going to look at stocks going down at the end of this year, the stock bull run will be over by the. Uh, so not only are we looking at crypto now talking about stocks going down, but the entire economy is going to take a big hit. At first. It's going to seem very positive though, because what happens is, is that, uh, places have to stop when the dollar becomes more valuable.

That means that companies or retailers, they drop prices on stuff. But when they do that, they're making less money, which eventually leads to job cuts and people getting laid off right now. Anybody who wants a job can go. By next year, that will no longer be the case. So because that inflation is kicking in, in the fall, it lines perfectly with every timeline that I put together.

And so I can't believe that there is going to be a lengthening cycle. Cash will be king come late, come winter hash will be king. Once again, I know that is antithetical to every crypto argument that we've been making for years, but the government's about pull the rug out from under us. And I believe that part of this is going to be USDA.

Playing a role as the digital dollar, meaning there will be more demand or it, when you move to a digital dollar, you take away the, uh, the, the geographical borders around being able to get access to your money. That's going to create a higher demand across the world for the U S dollar. Uh, and I think that that's going to ha also have a, a big impact on the inflation.

We're seeing the dollar index rising as we speak. So th there are a lot of factors in my opinion, that point towards. Deflation black Swan event coming in the fall or in December. So sometime in between October and December, and Bitcoin is not going to thrive this time. And this is good for Bitcoin. It's great for Bitcoin that this is going to come at the exact end of what should be the bull run.

Imagine if this has ha had happened three months. There would be no more bull run. So it's really advantageous. That's why my channel, we really preach to people. You know, you sell either bottoms. That's how you change your life. Got you, man. That was a whole lot to take in. I didn't even, I never thought of it that way.

That's such a, like a really creative way to think about it because I think you're absolutely right. That never really crossed my mind how. It being in a bearish or even a downturn cycle is actually a good thing, but then also a larger scale economy, bad thing, but then can be transformed into progress and, you know, some really major gains in the future and kind of get us up this rut we're in because of COVID all that other stuff.

That's. Thank you. That's crazy. That's a great way to look at it. One thing I wanted to ask is, so what do you think that this whole mindset on a Bitcoin versus Ethereum and pretty much everything you just kind of went through, do you think that might turn people into more of the. All coin or Ethereum maxi over the Bitcoin maxi because Bitcoin is kind of becoming a little bit more, not outdated, but just the use case isn't as there as it used to be.

And now it's just people who really, really like it. People want to be about it and big institutions and PR quote, unquote, old money now getting into crypto, you know, 10 years too late, but they're back into, do you think we're going to see more switch into besides gray scale and all those switch into theory them and you know, some more.

Yeah. So, I mean, technically there's no those standards in all queen maximalist, you know, there's no there's things in there, maximums, but I like to call myself in a theory. Maximalist is a joke patrol the Bitcoin Maxis, but, um, yeah, I can't stand Bitcoin maximalist. I think they are the most toxic people in all of crypto.

Um, they have become the very thing that the. Out to fight in the beginning, which is just the deepest irony of all, you know, like trying to control us. Like you can't invest in that coin. Like trying to tell me what to do with my money. A lot of these guys, they just got rich early max Kaiser. Um, you know, a lot of the guys that wrote all, uh, you know, a lot of the books to do the Bitcoin podcast, Meadowdale, peanut recording.

These guys got rich early well, Peter McCormick didn't, but a lot of these other guys that got rich early off Bitcoin, and they just have held onto this. And they won't let go of it wine. It made them all their money. It's the same exact reason. Warren buffet doesn't invest in a blockchain's exactly why Amazon had to wait until Jeff Bezos moved on from CEO to get interested in crypto.

Jeff Bates has made all of his money in the traditional system. We're above it made all his, my in the traditional system. Jamie diamond made all of his money in the traditional system. Why do these guys want crypto? They don't. And it's the same thing with the Maxis. They made all their money. Why do they want all coins to do well?

Uh, but it's very apparent to me. Ethereum is going to patch, I believe a hundred percent. The theory of will pass Bitcoin permanently in the next five years. Um, I think this year it's got a good chance to touch it and then retrace, uh, maybe pass it by a few million dollars or a billion dollars and then go back down.

Um, I don't think it will permanently pass it this cycle, but I think it's got a great chance to pass it. At least for a moment, get rejected then in four to five. Has it permanently a theorem is such a bigger opportunity than Bitcoin. It's hard to even put it into words. Uh, Ralph Powell was actually on my show this week and he said, he believes that the future is a $200 trillion market cap for all of crypto.

The vast majority of that is not going to be in Bitcoin. I can't see Bitcoin ever achieving over a $30 trillion market cap. Uh, I've actually said 20, but maybe 30 being super generous, uh, $20, $20 million market cap would basically mean it eats the entire market cap of gold and then doubles that that would be 20.

So I think that's. But when you look at the derivatives market, which Ethereum helps deploy into crypto, it's a quadrillion dollars. It's a quadrillion dollars. It's more money than you can visualize. Now that's two thirds of all the money in the world are derivative. Uh, theory and other, you know, uh, blockchain, uh, projects, a similar vein can pull those into our market.

And when you look at that, that means that crypto has bigger potential than anything we've ever seen in the history of mankind. Uh, you know, to be a huge, a unifying force. So, uh, and that's not even, that's not even bring it. That's just talking about derivatives. That's not even bringing in the actual use case of a de-centralized internet, which we all desperately need and want.

And let's, we're going to be living in a, in a big brother society. And I'm not talking about the game. I'm talking about the book, uh, where, I mean, we're already there to be honest with you. So if the room is one of our best hopes to get us out of that, so. Uh, internet between the derivatives market. Uh, there there's just no better thing than a theory out there over the long-term.

It's definitely not Bitcoin. So I think it's just a matter of time. Look, somebody to like, this is trying to like put banned. On something that doesn't work anymore. You know, it was just trying to fix something. It's never going to be a currency. It's digital gold. It does graze digital gold. It's never going to be a currency.

And there's nothing that the Maxis can do to, to make that, you know, that that dream come to pass El Salvador accepting Bitcoin is a great example. This is going to be the Bitcoin maximalist, worst nightmare. They feel like El Salvador, 70 big one. Yes. Everybody can get his currency. You know, what's gonna happen.

The people are going to realize that they don't want to spend it because it goes up in value. So anybody that gets is going to hold on to it, it's going to feed the whole purpose of having it as a currency. So I think really this El Salvador experiment is going to be maybe the linchpin and finally driving away that narrative, that it is occurrence.

Yeah, Ben, I really like your take on, on Bitcoin and ether earlier on in the show before you came on, we were just talking about the possibility of Ethereum flipping Bitcoin. This market cycle. Logan certainly thinks it will. I think there's probably a 50, 50 chance or so, but definitely in the long run. I mean, it's almost inevitable.

I think Ethereum will pass Bitcoin's market cap. There's just so much more you can do, especially when you have a 200 trillion say 10. 10 years down the road and we have a 200 trillion or even a hundred trillion dollar market cap. There's just no way that Bitcoin can be dominant in that scenario. Like you said, it's, it's the digital gold and it will be used as that as a store of value.

And yeah, like you said, it's a $10 trillion market cap for gold and Bitcoins, much more accessible, especially 10 years from now. So yeah, maybe 20 trillion, maybe 30 trillion, like you said, but I mean, It has so much more potential to do so many more things. Um, so speaking on the trends here, we've seen a lot of new trends in crypto, especially on a theory in these past couple of years.

First we saw defy. Now we're seeing NFTs. Do you have any thoughts on the future of the fire in NFTs? And do you see any new trends coming about in the next few months? No, I don't have any opinion. Okay, have you, have you gotten sweet, sweet move on? You know what? I just pull in my leg. Um, yeah, so I definitely think deep by NFTs and gaming coins are the three niches to watch in the.

Um, cause I do believe in a bear market, I believe in a deep, painful bear market. Uh, just like we saw last time, the one I didn't believe in and then it came so this time I definitely believe in it. Um, and so those three niches, I believe are ones that have the opportunity maybe to hold the best or to have independent moments where, uh, you know, their use case and their act, not just our use case, but their actual number of users and what they're putting out.

We'll have the ability to have some pumps, even within the bear market. So those are three things to watch. I think with NFTs, this is an argument I've been getting into a, we, my business partner, uh, TJ, a lot of people know him from the show, but you know, he, he thinks that in the bear market in upkeep projects are going to go down.

And then the individual collectibles are going to go down as well with them. So like, let's say you have a board ape let's say is worth $200,000. Uh, you know, Ethereum goes all the way back down to, let's just say, you know, $1,500 after maybe it hits 10,000. And that means that, you know, the board ape is gonna, you know, shoot down that same percentage.

So it's only going to be worth, you know, $30,000 or something like that. I, I don't believe that's true. And the reason is. I have spent a lot of time, um, working in the sports memorabilia business, actually. So I used to have a, you know, I used to sell assigned football helmets. It was really interesting to watch the values of those helmets.

From week to week, one week, we would have a helmet that would come in and that helmet would be worth 2,500. The next week, we couldn't get rid of it for 600. And that may be based on all, you know, factors like, uh, you know, maybe somebody got traded and that's it now his old helmet, or, you know, maybe a new version of the helmet came out, maybe a team got a new logo or something like that.

So many factors played into that, but. The collectibles market moves that way for baseball cards, for Pokemon cards, for football helmets were movie memorabilia. It's constantly going up and down. Let's start here constantly going up and down. So, whereas with crypto in the price of the NFT projects themselves, I do think we're going to see considerable bear action.

I think within the bear market or the NFT collectibles, we're going to see that same kind of ebb and flow of the prices independent of the presence of the collection. Independent of the price of the coin, if that makes sense. So do you think that NFTs will actually underperform Ethereum in a bear market say that the board is worth 48th right now?

Do you think it will be worth less than 48th when, when it's Ethereum's at $1,500 or do you think it will probably stay around the same price in Ethereum terms? Well, I think that it's a great question. Um, there's one, I've got to put some thought to, I would say that. The thing you have to take into consideration is this, there was less interest in a bear market in general, by a long shot.

Okay. So guys that were doing YouTube videos, for instance, and we're getting hundreds of thousand views on them in the bull market, like back in 2017 in 2019, you know, they were, they were lucky to hit 10,000. Okay. There's less interesting. When there's less interest, that means that there's less demand.

And so that less demand would seem to indicate that the prices should drop across the board. But the NFTE buyer is not necessarily the crypto enthusiast. Now they may have become a crypto enthusiast through buying NFTs, but we're seeing through a lot of these mainstream celebrities and athletes, a new kind of buyer.

That is not necessarily super savvy on the crypto markets. I mean, I've done interviews time after time with, uh, you know, different celebrities and athletes. They're like, man, I'm really into these NFTs are really care about Bitcoin or Ethereum. So because of that, that means that even when the interest drops, that there still could be a level of interest from people outside of crypto and NFT is like, there's no question about it.

It Ft is the bridge to adoption for crypto the mainstream. Bridge to adoption. We're seeing it. We're seeing people who would never be in this space. And the thing that people really discount are the companies that are behind the scenes, making all the moves, getting themselves ready to sell NFTs, kind of like the NBA did without an NBA top shot.

Seeing the NFL positioning itself. We have a call with a professional sports team next week. They're wanting to do something with us. With a w excuse me, with our NMT launching program. So you're seeing paramount. You're, you're seeing movie companies everywhere, uh, Kevin Smith, director of clerks, uh, you know, doing clerks three, it's got blockchain through it.

So we're seeing Hollywood getting interested. And I think this is something we're not going to see stop. So I actually believe if you were to tell me, would I rather have a board ape or the equivalent amount of. I would say I would probably rather have the board ape because it's going to move more radically.

There may be a better time for me to sell it, you know, on a pump that Ethereum, which is going to be pretty much. Hmm, that's fascinating. Uh, so, so bad. I don't know if you've heard the news, but as of this morning, the sec is reportedly investigating unit swap, uh, and the unit swap labs team in the United States.

Um, do you think that, that these, uh, governance tokens should be listed as securities? What do you think is going to end up happening? Yeah, all cryptos a security. Let's shut it down. We had a good run in the chat. Let's get some . So here's the situation with, uh, with the unit swap. This is not about unit swap at all.

Uh, this is about ripple apps. This story that is out today is 100% about ripple labs. It is not about unit swap. This is a diverse. This is a look this way and don't look at what we're doing over here, because what's going on is that the ripple labs case is getting settled very soon. I believe by the end of this month, that will be over.

There's a lot of evidence now coming out to support that I've been sounding like a crazy person for two months saying it would happen in the middle of September, but now I'm actually starting to get a little support on that. There's a, there's a court date on September 14th that could end up being the final.

Uh, you know, the final nail in the sec coffin here. Now look, the sec is going to make it look like they won. They're going to do a settlement with ripple, and they're going to say like, see told you they did this. Now we gave them a fine, this is not what the sec wanted for this case. They are losing the case.

They just fired their director of enforcement, the director of enforcement resigned last week ever. On the job since January the second one to resign in a very short order of time, direct reflection of the ripple case. I don't have time to get into all the topsy turvy, muddled. Uh, you know, uh, you may not know this, but the lawyers for ripple were a director at the sec and the director of enforcement at the se.

During the time the XRP token was launched, that's just dependent. Yes. So there's so much about this case. It will blow your mind, but it's over. This is over. This is not going further. The settlement will probably come this month. Maybe it comes next month, but I believe probably by the middle of this month towards maybe about the 20th, we're going to get this case over now.

What does this have to do with unit swap? Well, the government's got to move on to the next thing. After taking a loss, this. Gary Ginsler, a lizard person is I like to call him. Gary Ginsler has to save base and move on to a, another big target, something shiny, a shiny object that are able to bike can be like, oh, now we're scared about you.

Just swap. Let's totally forget about the sec failure against ripple. That's what's going on. Ultimately. There's not much to go after on unit swap. Uh, I don't believe because of their, their process for listing tokens, you basically list anything there and get liquidity. The team itself is not providing liquidity for every coin that is on there.

All they're doing similar to Bitcoin is offering an open source way for people to be able to, you know, trade crypto. So I don't think there's much to go on. They could certainly hit them with a fine now unit swap labs makes big fees on these transactions. So they certainly do have a lot of money to pay some fines.

That's probably where that thing will end up. If you haven't seen a pattern here, you're not looking. The pattern is sec failure equals buying and selling. For the crypto projects, other than a few that have been given a view that didn't really launch or couldn't afford to fight libraries still in the thick of a fight against the sec, they don't necessarily have the funds.

The ripple apps has, uh, the kin token, uh, from the messenger. They were gone after very, very, very hard, uh, Paragon was shut down. It was a scam. And of course EOS, you know, they went after them hard, uh, for a $2 million fine, I think on a four or I think it was a $98 million fine on a $4 billion project. So it was about, you know, a very small percentage of what they actually raised.

So the sec doesn't have a winning track record here in crypto and, uh, the remote story. Just like BitConnect, uh, they, they, they're now trying to assume three years after the fact when nothing was happening. Like, all right, well, we'll just going to throw spaghetti at the wall and see what absolutely.

That's another one of those shiny object things everybody's talking about. Big connect. All of a sudden, again, I'm talking about, but have a quick follow-up to that. Do you think that XRP will start trading in the U S after that settlement? Absolutely. A hundred percent. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, crises, some positioning even before with some exchanges starting to realist as we get closer to the middle of the month.

But yeah, it's definitely going to be trained and that's all thing they're going to get the fine, they're going to be able to keep training. Um, and that's why I've said that in my opinion, for price alone, XRP is the number one coin for the second half of this. Heard it well, Ben, thank you so much for coming on.

Sharing some knowledge with us today. I know I learned a lot. I'm sure the audience did as well. Uh, we have your YouTube linked in the description below so people can go check you out there. Uh, but if you have any closing thoughts, any shout outs you want to give or any other places you want the audience to connect with you?

Uh, the floor is. Yeah, we just launched our a bit lab academy, uh, where people can learn about blockchain if you're new. So it's good for your audience that may not necessarily be the most advanced crypto user. You guys can check out bit lab academy.com. Awesome. Great. Thank you for joining us. Hope you have a good day.

All right. Thanks. Bye.

Well, uh, what'd you guys think how that was C was awesome. I mean, there's yeah, I learned a whole bunch. I didn't even think about it that way. Especially the U S economy or like the full even the global economy side didn't even think. You know, I haven't correlated the two in the terms of bear bull market and see what it's going to all kind of come together piece together.

And that's really, really interesting. Yeah. Yeah. He's so deep in the ecosystem. He knows so much about it. Uh, and he's very convincing with what he says. Um, Ryan, you have any thoughts again, Logan, if it, if we do see a hundred thousand dollars Bitcoin in the month of September, will you be selling? I mean, yeah, I think so.

Yeah. I mean, if we do double that's, that's definitely a sign of a blow off top. I think I would definitely start averaging out of my position, but at the same time, we've seen, we've seen close to a hundred percent pumps before the bull market was over. So, I mean, there's definitely different takes and, and a lot of things to take into account.

I think that Ethereum's proof of stake might be the blow off top for this crypto market cycle, but only time will tell. Right. But like he said, he thinks the altcoin market's going to continue on after the Bitcoin top, which I think is really interesting. And I'd love to see that play out because there could be so much that goes on there and really people will be only focused on the altcoins that could really kind of change the narrative.

That BDC is king. I mean, we're continuing to see that BTC dominance slide in the east dominance rise. So we're 20% now, uh, which is just crazy. Um, and yeah, I, I mean, I think he shared a lot of interesting ideas that I really hadn't heard before. Um, and yeah, I mean, it it'd be really, it'd be great to see what happens, you know?

Yeah, totally. I think I heard what you guys said. Cause I had my headphones. I had, my dogs are going crazy, but I think that's spot on. And I think that Ethereum has a lot more room to grow in terms of, you know, just mark cap, everything and Bitcoin has kind of hindered it. The fact that yeah, someone in the chat said they do have DFI.

They do a smart contracts. They do. And they don't, and it's being added years and years later where they have, they're going to have to catch up the whole time that all these other chains have had them. They're going to have to catch up. And these developers don't always work on these other chains.

They're just strictly Bitcoin. And so it's it, Bitcoin started all, it's just like anything else. Bitcoin is the key to this whole movement to everything that we know, and that we talk about on a day-to-day basis, Bitcoin has started, but. Everything else has kind of surpassed it. And now Bitcoin is like, uh, what the pound compared to the Euro.

You don't use one, one of them anymore. You only use the other, but it still started that their whole currency. So there's a lot to say. I hope that Ethereum, I personally believe that theory is superior to Bitcoin, but that's just me in terms of where I want to store my, uh, where I have the best store of value, where I have the most functionality and where I can actually grow in the whole ecosystem in general.

But that's not saying I don't not like Bitcoin, cause I do. Yeah, for sure. I mean, Bitcoin is one application of DFI, right? It's a store of value. And then every other application of DPI requires smart contracts. So the rest of it's going to be going on, on, on blockchains that can handle smart contracts.

I'm not entirely convinced about Bitcoin's ability to upgrade or the lightning network's ability, uh, to really do some advanced stuff that we can see, um, on like fully, uh, turn, complete virtual machines, like the, the EBM, the Ethereum virtual machine. Yeah, I liked, I liked that he was bullish about Cardona.

Um, he's definitely more knowledgeable about it than I am. I didn't even know about the European union deal. Um, but that would be huge. I know they're doing a lot in Africa, which is pretty cool too. Um, crypto is insanely popular over there. It's really, really cool. Really cool to see that happening at the retail level first, but that's what crypto is all about.

Right? Right. That's right. Solano will not flip. I'm just going to say that right now you can quote me, but that's really interesting what he said about Solano where, cause he's right. That whole pump, I mean almost a hundred, 200% in the last week or two. It's not just because people are looking at, there's a reason this money is coming in, because if you look at the market cap and that's a whole lot of Regan money that's been pumped into, and that's just not people rein and retail investors putting in there one thousands, 10,000, maybe even a hundred thousand.

I mean, if you're, if you're that, um, fancy. You know, there there's something else going on there, but that is a good sign that people believe in it. And even if it's shady, even if it's real, even if it's not, you know, that's still a great sign for it, but he's got a good point. And, um, I've been bullish on Cordato for awhile and Solano, but I cannot wait until we see what Cordona can actually do.

Cause I'm a big fan of Charles' house. Yeah, for sure. Hey, no, I want to highlight your comment real quick. Eve can't scale. No, the main net can't scale. Uh, but it will have shard chains, 32 parallel blockchains that will scale. And then also other layer, two solutions and side chains will help a theorem to scale as well.

I mean, that's what metallic has been saying forever. Um, so. Uh, can scale. I don't think many people will be using the main net and in the long-term for most applications, unless you need that heavy, heavy level of decentralization. Um, we have run completely out of time. We have zinger stock trivia, uh, starting one and a half minutes ago.

Uh, so I'm going to wrap this up now. Thanks everyone for tuning into moon or bus today. Uh, hope you enjoyed. If you did smash the like button, we had a great show for you, a great interview, uh, and we will see you not on Monday it's it's labor day, but we'll see you in. Wednesday and we'll get samples for the thing

Palooza giveaway. Next Wednesday guys, go check Benzinga Twitter to win a free 200, $350 ticket or a thousand dollars VIP ticket to doge. Brilliant. So go check bins and get Twitter and retweet it. Hit it up. We will see you Wednesday.

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Episode Summary:

Lil Uzi Rug PullVolcano MiningElon on Crypto RegulationIcon Blockchain InterviewMoon or Bust - To Play Moon or Bust go to https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrency

Guests:

Scott Smiley

Check Out Other Benzinga Podcasts Here:Check Out All Benzinga Crypto News HereGet Moon or Bust Crypto Merch HereJoin the Telegram:https://t.me/moonorbustBZfor 25% of Moon or Bust Podcast swag.Claim 1000 ZING airdrop: https://www.benzinga.com/zing

Meet The Hosts:

Brian Moir

Solidity and React Developer | Blockchain Enthusiast | Decentralized Internet Advocate | Crypto investor since 2012

https://twitter.com/moirbrian

Logan Ross

Blockchain Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain | Crypto investor and educator since 2016

https://twitter.com/logannross

Ryan McNamara

Bought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | Liquidated on ByBit | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2016 (sorry planet Earth) | $UNI Bag Holder

https://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamara

Disclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.

Unedited Transcript

Hello, zinger nation. My name is Logan Ross, and I'd like to welcome you to flight 51, aboard the moon or bust rocket. Ship your home for all things, altcoins and defy. I am joined today on this adventure by defy developer, Brian Moore and Ryan mutant, ape McNamara. How you guys doing today? Fantastic. All my friends got robbed, but I'm still here.

I'm happy. I'm doing well. How are you doing? Uh, I'm doing well. I'm doing well. We're doing a little bit of prerecorded interview today. So if you guys are watching this live, unfortunately we won't be able to hang out, uh, like usual. Um, but we enjoy and appreciate you guys coming in and checking it out as always.

Uh, so couple of things we got to get out of the way before we can get started first up most important safety procedures. Anyone who is willing and able and seated in any of the rows in existence, please activate your like button into the on position and we will be cleared for takeoff. Also, if you were here for crypto content, make sure you check out the Benzinga crypto YouTube channel.

It's a separate. Channel that we will be moving over to, uh, in a couple weeks here, we are pushing to a thousand subs. We going to do a giveaway when we hit it. So you gotta be there early. Uh, all right, let's see what else we got. We got some dope links, uh, in, in the description below, we have the Benzinga money site.

This is the team that Ryan and I work on. We spend all our time building these pages for. Uh, it's all about the education over there. So go check it out. Uh, we also have a mood, our bust game on the money site, uh, where you can go vote moon or bust on all of your favorite tokens. And you can see all of our favorite episodes as well.

So go check that out. Uh, also we have a telecom. Uh, and if you join it, we will throw you a 25% off discount code for the moon or bust Merck. Sounds like a pretty good deal to me, uh, as always make sure to connect with us on Twitter. We'd love to hear from you, uh, feel free to hit us up. DMS are open if you have any crypto questions, uh, that we can't get to because today's episode is not live.

You can ask us there. All right. So without other way, let's get right into it. First topic of the day, a little Uzi vert was promoting this NFT project called the eternal beings. He had it as his PFP on Twitter. He was tweeting all about it. He said 6, 8, 4 minimum mint price was not six E six sole for.

The mid price was 2.5 Seoul, which is pretty expensive compared to the standard. And guess what happened, Ryan? What happened? Logan? Tell me what happened. Give us this vertical. Mr. Vertical himself deleted all of the content relating to the project from Twitter, basically disappeared, rugs the community, uh, and nothing has been heard from him about it since then.

Ain't nobody say. How's it supposed to go to a six soul floor. If he's just going to delete the tweets, that's obviously going to create. That's what I'm saying. Trust you gotta trust any celebrity that has NFT project, you know, it's legit and nothing wrong will ever happen to it usually may have a diamond forehead, but he definitely does not have diamond hands anymore.

Shapes and form. So about 20 minutes, sorry, Logan. I just got to get as many puns in there as a can I see what you did there? Nice one. Uh, yeah, so, I mean, he posted this, it was up for a couple of days, uh, and even Snoop dog gave it a little quote tweet with a shout out. Uh, and it looks like maybe Snoop, might've gotten a rug as well.

We'll have to check his Solano wallet. If he has one. Here is the projects page. It's a Salada NFT. So it's on this salon. Uh, marketplace and you can see the price floor is a whopping 1.7 soul that is down like a 25% from the mint price. That's an Oop. Yeah. Hopefully a Snoop dog dropped it. Like it's hot and didn't keep hold on to it because man, that's just ridiculously crazy just to hype it up, use all your followers and everything, hype it up and then just say, all right, see you like, he doesn't like he needs the money.

Like it. What the heck? Well, I think it's us too. I mean, it's 2.5 sold a Memphis $625. You rarely see NFTs that are that expensive to men. I mean, even for API club was 0.08 to mint, which at the time was probably like $200. Yeah. That's ridiculous. Woke up this morning at 7:00 AM, checked my phone, uh, and saw that that's just the way life goes.

I mean, Uzi must've been drinking and smoking a little bit too much. Uh, and he's a cool guy too. Like he's really down to earth. Have you seen any interviews? He does. I wouldn't expect someone to. You know, status to do it, but then that goes to show you any way it could happen to anyone. It could be from anyone.

Yeah. And I don't have a problem with celebrities sponsoring these NFTs either like, go and get your bag. But when it's a NFT project project surrounded by your brand, I mean, these NFTs look like Uzi. It had a play on words from maternal uptake. So like this was very deeply intertwined with easy, not only that.

But a winner is supposed to win backstage passes to a Lil Uzi vert concert. Is that even going to happen anymore? It probably not, but I'm not sure. It seems like he's totally not affiliated with this project whatsoever right after them. It's definitely not a good luck for the NFT community. And I think it's not a good look for solani either since this was one of the few projects that have really blown up on Solano's ecosystem.

When I saw the mint price, I was like, geez, that's a rack. Uh, I need to get my money longer. And then Uzi erased his social. And I was like, man, I got some PS and QS. Jeez. I was like, what? Eight pounds? And once this guys, we need some likes for that. I am on top with these puns man. Well, I've seen a lot of this stuff happened with the, uh, like BNB shit coins and all that kind of stuff.

I'd expect it to happen within a T projects, which has has, but it, it is a little, you know, take, it takes you back a little bit. Whenever you see someone of his status, he just straight rug, something like this. And S yeah, ma he was trying to buy a silly watch or a Canadian goose.

But now I got I'm sorry on repeat.

All right. That's enough Uzi puns for one day. Um, so next topic we have, uh, it is that El Salvador's volcano, Bitcoin mining farm. I'm sure you've guys have heard about it. Uh, they just dropped a dope promo video. Uh, and I want to share with you guys and show you the progress. On that. So here it is.

Have you guys seen, if they've released any specs on this. As far as how many miners, the hashing power or anything like that? No, I'm not sure. Not, they're pretty much experimenting with it right now, which is pretty cool to see like them using volcanic energy as a energy source to power all this stuff because of the amount of carbon.

Footprint that Bitcoin mining has in the, how detrimental it is to the environment when it gets to these levels, which they're, you know, utilizing a lot of power, especially from a volcano, but there's a little bit mixed reviews in this, uh, world bank does is says they're not impressed with the, uh, El Salvador move, but El Salvador has no.

Taken out, you know, capital gains tax on Bitcoin. And if you mine it, and you know, they are doing something that's positive for the environment. So it kind of can go either way. It's going to be kind of hard to tell when. So who's the winner in the outcome of this and a lot of El Salvadorians live outside of the borders.

So there was an economic report that estimated Western union will lose a hundred million dollars of profit each year, just from El Salvador, switching over to Bitcoin, which is pretty crazy. Yeah. It's kind of. I think this is a more sustainable strategy too, because as Bitcoin mining gets harder and harder to do your margins get less and less because you're spending so much more money on electricity.

It was something like this. Once it's set up, you're not really spending money on electricity, you don't have that overhead costs. So, I mean, over the longterm, I think this is a very solid play by them. Especially as the hashing power increases with Bitcoin's price. Once am I getting things for two, once somebody can create a, um, more.

Re-usable mining machine or just the hardware. I think that they are going to create a, you know, are going to be very, very rich, but also help the environment a whole lot more than what it is. Now. You only get a handful of amount of time that you can use a, a GPU or, you know, whatever you use to mine, the Bitcoin, because it's so much power that's going through those machines that they run out like that.

So someone can find a sustainable way to make them. Resilient. I think that they would definitely make the world a better place for Bitcoins is not going anywhere. You know, it's only going to become harder and harder, like you just said. Right? So the startup costs for this project are probably pretty huge.

Um, but once they ROI, they'll just be printing money from that volcano, which is really dope. I'd say quickly. Quite quickly. Yeah, I see. You mean, you saw the scale of that operation there in the video. Like they have huge, huge, uh, Rackspace. When we running a ton of hashing power. Yeah, I think this should honestly be a little bit bigger news because we saw the news broke when they bought 200 Bitcoin and then they bought another 200 Bitcoin.

But that's really not very much, especially for a government. Something like this is definitely much, much more costly in a much larger investment over the long run. Yeah, I agree. There should be bigger news. Uh, but instead the headline of this morning was your favorite person ever. I, in Elon Musk, you want to tell us about that story?

Elon Musk? Yeah. So Elon Musk was interviewing and he basically said that the United States should take a hands-off approach when it comes to cryptocurrency, he said they should do nothing. And. And this makes sense. I think a lot of people in crypto do agree with him. Uh, I'm not sure if legislators are going to listen at all.

I don't really think there will be, but I guess this does bring attention, uh, from the retail investors. And I think a lot of people agree with what Elon Musk has to say, even if they aren't very educated on the topic. So it's good to see that he supports a hands-off approach to cryptocurrency. I thought something else from the same interview is actually really.

I think he commented on China's mining regulation about how China banned Bitcoin mining earlier this summer. And he thinks it has something to do with their electricity generation issues. Because about 50% of, of the Bitcoin mining power came from China before it was banned, which is a huge amount. I mean, Bitcoin's network uses about the same amount of electricity as a small to mid-size country.

So it is an enormous. Electricity is super cheap in China. So that's why so many people were mining there, but if they have electricity shortages, so some people are going without power because there's simply just not enough electricity to go around. So that's really interesting. I never got that take before, but that definitely could play a role in it.

And I'm not really sure where it goes from here, but I don't think that that China's going to be introducing Bitcoin mining anytime soon. I think they're going to stick to their ban. And I mean, the innovation is just going to have to go somewhere else at the end of. Another thing I thought that was interesting from that interview was that he said, he thinks that crypto is basically unstoppable.

So, uh, you kind of have to embrace it or kick it out of your country and let the development happen elsewhere. So that's why he said that, that the us should take a hands-off approach to crypto regulation and quote, do nothing. All right next up. Uh, this has big, we've been waiting for this for a while, but it happened for the first time today who be global is offering USD, DC, uh, the salon, a version of it.

So USD C on Solano is now directly purchasable and, uh, and sellable on Hubie global. Um, I expect to see a lot more moves like this in the future where, you know, you can buy your layer. If like already, so you can buy Ethan polygon or you could buy Ethan arbitrage them, then you wouldn't have to pay the, the bridge fees.

The exchange will take care of that for you. Uh, I expect this to become more and more popular and the first big example of that happened today. So I thought that was another cool thing to share with. All right. That is our news segment for today. If you enjoyed it, especially that Lil Uzi vert segment, make sure you go ahead and smash the like button for us.

Uh, so other people who might enjoy this content can find it as well, and we can grow the moon or bust community to be one of the biggest on. Next up, we have an interview with Scott smiley from the icon project. Now, if you guys don't know, icon is in the top 100 market cap of all the crypto's it's available on Coinbase.

It's a super dope blockchain interoperability project. So, uh, without further ado, I'd like to welcome Scott to moon or bust. How are you doing today? Scott Logan. Thanks for having. Hey, the pleasure is all ours. Uh, so first question for you. How did you become interested in crypto to begin with? Sure. Yeah, it, uh, started back in early 2017.

I was working in investment banking and my roommate came home and he had downloaded the Coinbase app. And I didn't know a damn thing about Bitcoin Ethereum, light coin. Those were like the three that were listed on employment at the time. I was like, what the hell is the difference between. Um, and I took one look at the charts though.

And I was like, I need to find out what the differences I saw. I think at the time, like the theory was at like 75 bucks skyrocketed from 10. And I was like, you know, the fact that I could have participated in this and didn't, it's still something I need to learn. I want to understand what I'm doing before I just click.

And then from there, I just like started spending my nights and weekends and what little free time I had as a banker, just educating myself, reading white papers, talking in different chat rooms, talking to admins, talking to node operators and just like I had absolutely no software development or understanding at all at the time I was just pure finance and just really educated myself.

Um, and then started going to conferences and actually. Uh, Minkin, uh, the icon founder at a conference in DC, I believe. And, uh, just started talking to them, asking more questions and then April, 2018 is when I first started at icon. Awesome. That's a great story. So could you give us a high level overview of what I con is?

Sure. Yeah. So, so I kinda isn't always has been a interoperate interoperability protocol at, at heart. Um, when it first started, it was more focused on enterprise use-case. Where they were, um, the plans were to set up multiple enterprise versions of enterprise blockchains, and then use the icon public blockchain.

It's kind of like a communication layer between them. Um, but w what we've all seen, um, you know, over the last few years is that enterprise adoption is a bit slower than we all. So I'd say like about a year ago, we decided to pivot more introduced, uh, like broaden our scope, uh, stay to stay relevant in the, you know, uh, public blockchain industry and focus more on public to public blockchain, interoperability.

Um, so that's kind of what we're focusing on now. We're going to be launching our BTP protocol later this year with, um, let's see the polka dot Kusama ecosystem, finance, marching harmony. Uh, and near, I believe we're the first ones that we're working on, but once we have kind of all the, uh, all the foundation, like all the frameworks for these different smart contract languages, it'll be a lot easier to add, uh, other blockchains going forward.

Interesting. So I'm curious, how are you integrating with polka dine Kusama through moon river or something? Right? Yeah. Moon river, uh, had a good, uh, test net implementation setup. So it was the easiest to kind of integrate with them first. Um, so yeah. We're starting with moon river and also talking to a Cala plasm.

I think they rebranded as like, as star or something like that. And, um, yeah, the one is Edward as well that we've been in contact with all of those different pair chains in that. Interesting. So I'm curious, I don't know how, um, like technical, uh, you'll be able to answer this question, but, uh, moon river is like a it's EVM compatible.

Right? So could you, uh, kind of use the same tools to connect to with Ethereum as well? Yeah, that is true. Um, so there is one, like, uh, there's something that moon river did to bear EBM, uh, to help us that we needed, uh, to be able to integrate. So. We will be able to add Ethereum, it's just going to take, uh, some changes to the icon core blockchain, which we'll be planning, you know, after we do these initial implementations to be able to connect to Ethereum.

But you know, my logic is that important to connect to a theory and that we will do it, but there's plenty of bridges to Ethereum, like through these other networks that we're connected to. I don't think there's going to be any issue moving Ethereum assets around, but we also have the orbit bridge on the Eikon network, currently a direct connection to Ethereum.

Um, but the, the architecture is the same Logan. Can I put it in just for a second? I have a question for Scott. Uh, do you have any plans on implementing salon and especially after these past couple of months with all the hype around it? Oh yeah. A hundred percent. Um, so salon is also rust based smart contracts and near protocol is also rust based.

So we'll be able to use a lot of the work that we'd done in near protocol to integrate with Solana as well. Gotcha. Cool. Okay. Awesome. So if you had to pick like one thing or maybe a couple of things that separate icon as an interoperability project, what would you say that is? I think one of the things that I get most excited about is the security aspect of it.

So the way most of these interoperability solutions, where currently is some sort of proof of authority, Node system, uh, amongst the relays where there needs to be, needs to be some consensus amongst Greenlands, whether it's two thirds plus one consensus, or it's like a multisignature wallet in the end, the relays themselves control the minting and burning and locking and unlocking of assets that are being tracked.

Well, an icon, uh, in icons, BTP, the relays have absolutely no control over any of the smart contracts. They may not be malicious, even if they colluded, all they can do is fail to deliver messages to an icon. Relays are a source of liveliness while in most other interoperability solutions, relays are a source of security and a source of.

That's very interesting. So, uh, what utility does the icon token have and, um, what gives it its value? Sure. Yeah, pretty pretty, uh, pretty high level, broad stroke question there. The, uh, I see X is like, um, you know, icon is like a layer one blockchain as well. So it has, it's a delegated proof of stake network.

So you stake and lock your icon tokens and vote for a validator and you earn your share and block Blackboard. Similar to many other DPOs networks, cosmos, included plenty of them out there. Um, and then in terms of the, uh, how it fits into Beto ETP and accrues value from more usage of BTP, that was something that we tried to think a lot about, like being the interoperable interoperability protocol is great, but how does it help, uh, accrue value to this?

So what happens is there are fees generated from BTP when sending tokens between networks and sending cross chain messages. And those fees are aggregated into a smart contract on the icon network. And that contract will then auction the fees off at a discount to ICX holders and take the ICX proceeds that it earns and burns them.

So it creates like this token sync, the more fees that are generated through BTP, the more ICX has taken off the market to purchase these tokens. Gotcha. Interesting. So I'm sorry if I missed this, could you, could you tell me what BTBY right. Yeah. That's the blockchain transmission protocol. Uh, that's kind of like, yeah.

That's icons interoperability. Gotcha. Gotcha. Or unique. So, Scott, you mentioned earlier that icon's focus was primarily on private enterprises a few years back, and now you've shifted more towards public blockchains. Can you explain basically what your offering is for private enterprises? I know you kind of briefly went over it, but, uh, can you delineate the difference between your offerings for private blockchains and public blockchains and how that.

Yeah, absolutely. So the, the enterprise side actually comes from separate entity that, that works very closely with icon. Uh, it's called icon loop. They're based in they're based in Korea and they do, they have a lot of relationships with like the Seoul metropolitan government, for example, uh, you know, that's the, the city government, and then, uh, Jeju island is like a popular vacation spot in the area.

And they have a relationship with a Jaguar island government. Um, and then like some banking institutions, insurance companies, they have this thing called the . Which is a, you know, big, uh, cohort of enterprises and government entities looking to use enterprise blockchain for, um, are looking to use either enterprise or public blockchain for identification services.

So pretty much what it comes down to is icon loop had a ton of relationships with, um, you know, different enterprises and government entities in Korea. And the plan was to set up, uh, enterprise blockchains in a lab. For example, you could, you could understand. You know, maybe, uh, an enterprise blockchain that was being used by, uh, the banking industry would want to be able to communicate with perhaps, um, insurance company, uh, like in a blockchain run by insurance companies.

So the plan was you to communicate. And share proofs of information through the public blockchains. So that way they wouldn't need to be running nodes on each other's networks. But you know, these enterprise blockchains are just really slow to get adoption. It's like proof of concept after proof of concept.

And, you know, I do still personally believe that enterprise blockchain will have a place in the future of this industry, but, um, you know, for obvious reasons, just like a large regulated enterprise is going to be slower to. Um, you know, brand new technology then startups and, uh, you know, other folks in the public blockchain space.

Mm, okay. Yeah. That makes sense. So, for example, like you said, if a bank and an insurance company wanted to communicate with each other, instead of running on the same public blockchain, where that information would be public, they'd be able to keep their information private, but you'd be able to verify that information, right?

Yeah. So they could essentially provide proves through the public blockchain without actually sharing data. Gotcha. Gotcha. Very good. Did you have a quick question from quick? Follow-up good question. So I saw you guys are working with Samsung. Do they have their own blockchain and what are you guys doing with them?

So, yeah, this, this is more on the icon loop side of things. So like I actually don't work at icon loop and I don't have like, too much communication with them. These days. I'm much more focused on the public blockchain side. So I really can't comment, unfortunately, on the enterprise relationships and like, where are they?

Um, so yeah, so, sorry, I can't share more information on that guys, but more of a public blockchain guy. Yeah, no worries. My next question is actually about public blockchain and retail adoption. So how do you guys plan on onboarding new users? I know onboarding's a huge problem in cryptocurrency. A lot of things are really complicated right now.

So how are you going to streamline that process and make it easier? Yeah, I'm really glad you asked that question because that's a major focus and kind of a major theme that I heard that I was just having a sorry conference, like, you know, It sounds kind of cliche, but we're still very much early days, uh, in this industry, you know, a lot of people are kind of fighting over the existing cryptocurrency users, but you know, what I'm thinking about mostly is how do we grow the pie and get more people involved in this ecosystem.

And that really all comes down to user experience and onboarding just like you asked. Um, so I'm working on this product called, called bridge bridge, paid.money. It's it's a wallet that uses the magic SDK and the bank. Combined with a partner, uh, excess stable coin provider. So, you know, the user experience that we're going for, like we're not quite there yet is, you know, you sign up for bridge, you enter your email and, and w what happens in the background is a wallet is created for you and a private key stored and encrypted server.

So only you have access to it, but you don't even really know that you're using the private key, right? You don't even know you're using blockchain to the end user. They entered their email, they got a confirmation link. They clicked it, and they're logged in. But what really happened is we created them a blockchain wallet.

And then from there there'll be able to deposit deposit cash. Right. And what that is actually going to be as sensitive as signing up for an account at our trust partner. And then they deposit cash into the trust and the trust, mince them a stable coin and it gets sent to their bridge account. Right? So to the end user, all they've done is they've entered an email and they've deposited cash and the cash arrived in the bridge account.

So that's like extremely easy and familiar. To people who were not involved in the cryptocurrency industry, they didn't need to learn about purchasing cryptocurrency or a stable coin or this or that. You know, that's kind of the end goal of bridge to be able to onboard people that way, like directly into apps, like, uh, you know, balanced or OMM.

These are like, uh, icons byproducts are really, uh, you know, more broadly, uh, to be able to interact with, uh, the blockchain industry and. I think user experience is extremely important for every type of product in this space. And it really hasn't been a major focus for a lot of products. As you know, people are trying to get a token out and capitalize on a bull market and things like that, you know, it's, it's been more important to be fast rather than to be usable.

And, you know, I'm more focused on trying to grow that pie and, you know, have a good strategy to, to onboard people like, like my parents, you know, So even on the bridge, like using BTP, uh, moving assets between networks that needs to be really seamless and it's to be direct integration into apps and all that like good API documentation for developers for like directly integration and, and, you know, good, good wallet, a user experience like bridge and all around, like, uh, you know, simple to use and understand interfaces.

So you say you, uh, putting your email and then it sends you a confirmation link. You don't have like a password or anything. Nope. Nope. It's the magic. It's a passwordless authentication. And uh, because in the end, like to get into your email, you had to have a password. Right? So, um, the idea of that type of, uh, login service, how did they like use their public key?

Maybe even if they don't know it, how does the app retrieve it? Like don't you have to have a private key to decrypt. The information, sorry. I'm not a hundred percent sure how magic works because it is a third-party service in the end, but I'm pretty sure what, the way it works is like they have all of the private keys stored in an encrypted server.

And, um, when you click the confirmation link, that poles, uh, there, they know to send your specific, private key from their server to your local. And then it's stored and decrypted on your local device to be able to use, to be signed transact, to, to sign transactions. That's my understanding magic. I'm not on the magic team there.

They're great guys. I'm sure they could give a much better, more in depth explanation. That's a pretty good way to explain it through APIs and all that kind of stuff, but it's pretty easy. It's pretty straightforward. Private games. Yeah. I'm going on another high level question. Um, can you tell us what an economist and a public representative is and why they're important to the icon ecosystem?

Yeah, sure. I can break that down pretty easily. I mean, like we have this, uh, like back in 2019, uh, me and a couple of guys that icon wrote this. Just a black post or whatever, like a opinion piece on, on. And blockchain, sorry, blockchain and cryptocurrencies being considered like digital nations that we're building like financial infrastructure, rebuilding political infrastructure, there's governance and there's citizens, right?

Like all the cryptocurrency holders. And there really is a lot of overlap. I mean, you see some people are more excited and patriotic about the coins they hold versus the country that they live in. You know, it can get like pretty intense. Right. And, uh, I definitely still believe in that vision and, and definitely see that happening.

So we kind of. That direction with the naming conventions within our ecosystem. And I mean, the fact that you have to ask that question does kind of make me wish that we just went with more traditional names. I mean, a P rep is a block producer validator. It's a minor, whatever you want to call it. Right.

And an economist is just a, an ICU. And that's kind of like the naming convention we went with and, you know, it does confuse some people from the outside looking in, but I do think there is some value in it, like within our ecosystem where people feel and identify more with it for that reason. Yep. I actually do like those names.

I think that they're more obvious than like Staker and delegator or Validately to someone who's not in blockchain already. Right? Yeah. True. Exactly. And they're the exact same as those words. I mean, it doesn't, it doesn't affect the, the roles they play and the public representative. It does have a little bit more of a focus on the governance side, which is important for the longevity of a blockchain network.

You know, you don't want it to stagnate and want those who are producing blocks and incentivize that you want them to want to grow the network and contribute to the core code and, you know, vote on changes and things like that. So it does give us. Uh, connotation that there's more to it, you know, uh, you know, mining.

Mm, definitely. And moving onto some applications on icons network, I saw that you worked for balanced out. I saw you worked for launching balanced out rather. Um, can you tell us a little bit about what that balanced out is and how it compares to say like, you know, swapper Ave? Because it looks kind of like it's maybe those two applications combined into one.

Right. Yeah. So, so balanced is essentially a platform to get leverage against your cryptocurrency. Um, right now it only supports ICX. Uh, but we do plan on adding many more collateral types. Once a BTP is live and, uh, you know, if someone's BTP is live and we have other assets within the icon ecosystem, we want to add more collateral types.

The balance does it allows you to deposit ICX and mint a BN USD against it, which is like very similar to die, but backed by ICX. And we do want to add, like I said, multiple collateral types. And from there, we want it to give people the opportunity to directly like, use that leverage. They got to purchase something.

Right. So, uh, that's why we also created like a unit swap silent. The balance is actually very similar to a maker down plus unit swap on the icon network with a, you know, a beautiful user interface. Sweet. So is that Dex operational yet? Or do we have to wait until more tokens are added to ecosystem? Yeah.

No, it's it's operational. So right now, uh, we have balanced tokens listed, um, ICX balanced hours. USB-C we have the, uh, our stable coin partner through bridge. Uh, it's called USDS, uh, stabilize the company. And, um, so we have their stable coin trading and OMM slogans, which is kind of like the Ave equivalent within the icon.

Um, so it's mostly, it's like all icon ecosystem right now for the most part, except for a USB-C, which is bridged over, um, from material. But besides that, it's kind of isolated to the icon ecosystem, but I am excited for the growth once we have BTP and other assets added as collateral, just kind of still in the development phase there kind of take, so those tokens you mentioned, are they only available on that deck?

Some of those smaller tokens within the ecosystem? Or can you get them other. They are only available on that Dex. Yeah. Okay. That's cool. Okay. Um, are there other icon apps that you're particularly excited about? And can you tell me more about maybe icon bat or project Nebula? I saw those too. Um, they seem particularly interesting to me.

I saw, I saw they have to do with NFTs and blockchain gaming. Um, so either of those two or if you're a particularly excited about any other blockchain protocol, um, that's coming out on. Yeah, I think I could give kind of a high level rundown. I will start with those two that you just mentioned. So combat is like a on chain fully, uh, like transparent provably fair.

Um, you know, they have casino games and I believe they're adding like sports betting as well and some other, uh, types of games, but, um, they've had a really strong, uh, community for a long time and they're, I believe they were the first application to launch on the icon network to kind of prove and show what the technology.

Um, and I think it really helped in, you know, building that community aspect on the icon network and, and they are still continuing to build and introduce new games. Um, so I definitely have, uh, been, been, uh, really interested in using icon requests. And then, uh, the other one is project Nebula is also really fun.

Um, it's like a space exploration game that uses NFTs. And you know, I'm not sure about you guys. Uh, I assume I see like an ape on, uh, on your back and Ryan, like I personally. Listen, I have nothing against NFTs. I just like, can't really get excited about them, the cage. And I see that there will be value and people are definitely going to get, there will be something to it.

It's just like, you know, not something that I'm personally into, but a project Nebula. Like I do like the idea and FTEs in games, right? Like they have planets and spaceships that have tangible value, like in the game. So people, if the game does become really popular and adds a ton more features about like what planets can do.

And what, uh, ships can do then, you know, I see kind of the tangible value there. So I'm pretty excited about a project Nebula and their growth, um, and what they can do, um, you know, on the gaming side. Um, you know, and then, and then more broadly icon is putting together, like all of the foundational components of a ecosystem, right?

Like sticking with a digital nations, um, metaphor. We need kind of all of these different services and these building blocks in place just to have like a functioning financial system within, uh, the Icahn ecosystem that we can then branch out to like international finance using PTP. So we have like a curve equivalent that's launching soon.

It's called equality dot. There's a year.finance equivalent, like a yield aggregator, which is, you know, for people who don't want to think too hard about earning extra yield deposit there. You know, I, I see that as an important service as well. It's called optimist.finance, and then currently live, we have balanced life network and omm.finance and omm.finance provides that money market, you know, similar to the compound and obey.

And then balanced as we were talking about earlier is like a, that leverage that leverage. Uh, like maker Dao and, and, and a trading platform like you as well. Awesome. Uh, so Scott, we talked to punk from the cosmos team a couple of months ago, and he told us that he doesn't see other blockchain interoperability projects as competition.

Uh, but that they're all working together. Do you share that view? I do. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I mean, I live outside of New York city. There's like multiple ways to get into New York from New Jersey. Sometimes one has more traffic, sometimes one has bigger tolls, you know, sometimes we'd go to different places and it makes sense to use different bridges.

I mean, I definitely see room for multiple interoperability solutions that the more, the longer I'm in this industry, it's been like over three years now, the more I believe we're going to have a robust multi chain feature. I don't think it's going to be two or three blockchains. I don't think it's going to be.

I'm thinking 50, a hundred, even a thousand. When you look at the fact that like Axiom infinity is, is building their own blockchain, right? Like NBA, top shots has built their own blockchains. You know, like there's going to be a lot of applications, specific blockchains who have different needs in terms of different bridges.

There might be more direct or less direct ways to get to where you need to go. And I absolutely see there being multiple, uh, interoperability protocols and, and, and then ways to streamline that. Right. Cause you don't want like a, let's just use a very simple example. Like, let's say you were on the Eikon network and you had IDC from the cosmos ecosystem.

And then you had BCCE from using TCP bridge. They would be different tokens, digital nation. If you will, you can kind of have this like a currency, I think like curve or equality on icon to fill this role where you essentially wrap these tokens. And then there's like one version of each that's used in all.

But you can, uh, you know, swap for it for free, but like all these other versions of eats, as long as they are, uh, uh, you know, um, approved, if you will buy it by whatever product is doing that. Um, I absolutely think there's going to be many bridging solutions and many different. If I can just jump in here again, Logan.

So you mentioned there might be like a hundred or a thousand different blockchains running parallel to each other, say in 10 years from now, do you think there's any benefit of having a public blockchain that's not interoperable? Or do you think that in the future, all public blockchains will have some type of interoperability with the.

Um, that's a tough question. Like I have seen like, kind of just from my work, like doing business development for, uh, for, uh, BTP, like speaking to different networks with different ideologies. Um, you know, like you could think of like a. You know, the certain countries in the real world today that really don't like doing international trade and are completely siloed off.

I mean, they're, they do have their own benefits, I would assume, but, you know, um, I, I very much am a believer in like, uh, you know, open, you know, trade and finance between different continents in the real world and also, uh, also in the blockchain space. So I do think there could be some blockchains that ended up going that direction based on their communities, right?

Like if that's what the community. They want it to be siloed. They want to only use their own assets and things like that. I could see that happening and being relatively successful as well. That's a good question. Right? I hadn't thought of that before. So Scott, I really liked your metaphor about the different bridges.

Uh, some will be more busy on different days. And so there's a need for multiple, I, I totally agree with that. Um, I'm curious to hear, um, you talked about the importance of user experience and the future of blockchain interoperability and having all these different versions of wrap tokens, uh, can kind of become messy, uh, especially for users who don't really understand what's going on behind the scenes.

So. Uh, I, I agree like, like what you said, there'll be a pools where you'll be able to get the one version for the chain that you're currently on. Um, but I I'm, I'm guessing, or I guess I'm saying what type of UX experience or improvements, uh, do you see coming in that sector of the. Yeah. So I lightly touched on that earlier when it comes down to API documentation.

So I think what's really important is to not like, so I con we'll have this, there's like kind of this bridge portal, not sure if you use them, there's like plenty that are available through existing linking products that you go to this website specifically just to bridge and asset source, blockchain, destination blockchain, and the type of.

You send it and you wait for confirmation and your heart is racing. Is it going to get there and blah, blah, blah bridge experience right now? Right. And like, I think, uh, you know, I think we need to skip that step. Um, I think like a product like balance, if we're offering people, the ability to trade Ethereum to ICX, we need to have the user interface and backend of the product.

Take care of bridging the Ethereum over to icon. Maybe it'll certainly take a little longer than if it was already on icon. But through proper API documentation for BTP and good example, use cases are used. There's no reason to use, or shouldn't be able to click like a, you know, one or two clicks and then have their Ethereum bridged over to icon through BTP and then, and then swapped for ICX on the balance decks.

I don't see why that is impossible. It's certainly a. We'll be difficult from a D implementation standpoint, very complex project to handle there, but it's certainly within the realm of. Yeah. Yeah. The thing that's sticking in my mind is that, um, we talked to a tax expert who knows a lot about crypto as well, like, um, pretty recently.

And that would be considered like a taxable event, any type of swap or even a bridge. Money leaving your wallet. Definitely argue against, I mean, I'm no accountant, not a lawyer. No, I don't think it's, I don't think it makes sense by any means. Like they, they would say something from USBC to USD T is a taxable event.

It's like, yeah, actually it's like changing dollars out at the store. Like, I don't know if you would, but like say you have a $2 bill and you want it to, or like a $20 bill and you wanted 20 ones, exact same thing. You're not reading. It doesn't mean. Yeah, the way they're doing it now, it definitely doesn't make sense.

So it'll be interesting to see if they can figure it out. I mean, Gary Gensler taught at MIT course on blockchain. So you think he would know, but I guess not.

So Scott, where do you see icon looking? Maybe 10 years down the road. What do you see as icons and nature? It's like main draws to users. Yeah, I definitely think, you know, I w I would like to see icon focus on the bridging technology and be kind of one of the go-to solutions. That's integrated into applications across countless different black points.

Right? Like I spoke about how balanced could abstract away the breads and process through proper API documentation and integration. Um, and I would like to see, you know, as many apps as possible doing that. So kind of the, the, the road for icon is to build the bridges, uh, to these different digital nations and then work with like the, uh, the leaders of these digital nations and, and get introductions to their businesses that are built there to integrate directly into the business and show them how to give like the best user experience possible.

So he could prove and show how important that is within the icon ecosystem with our kind of handful of flagship. These are almost like good examples. If you will to show others what can be done and then get that bridge and get that technology integrated into, into many different apps for seamless communication between, uh, DFI apps, for example.

Very cool. So would you say that UX is the biggest hurdle left to get there? Oh, 100%. A hundred percent. I think that's where the competition is really gonna hit. Um, you know, I I'm, you know, like definitely within the space right now, like these incentive programs are exciting and it draws attention to you within the cryptocurrency space.

But, you know, walk down the street, the new York's like anywhere and ask like, oh, did you guys hear about like the avalanche 180 million incentive program? Do you use their apps? Like, Nope. That's not drawing in new users. That's fighting over the same pool of existing. So that's going to be important, but the bigger battle and bigger, bigger hurdle is getting is gets growing the pie for everybody.

And that's what we're focused on. Very cool. And I like that point about airdrops. I mean, there really are just fighting over everyone involved in the ecosystem. They're not really expanding the pie, like you said. Exactly, exactly. And I mean, they're definitely important. Like, I don't think, like I'm not going to like scoff at those programs and they definitely, you know, helped bring notoriety and publicity to your chain within this ecosystem.

But we do need to think bigger as an industry. Yeah. Very cool. Is there some sort of mainstream integration you see being like really key? Maybe it's like Robin hood and in crypto wallets or something completely different. Yeah, no, I think that's important. And I don't know if it's going to be, I could see whether it's Robin hood and getting their users to onboard, like into defy or could be just like a new startup that, uh, that rat, that arises with like a really great user experience that does, uh, you know, get some market share with higher yields, um, like higher yield accounts for less insurance, which could be interesting to a lot of people these days.

So I could see it going both ways. And why not both really. I could see like Robin hood or other major apps integrating directly. Major defy protocols with some disclaimers, but I could also see some startups arising that, that, that shows some competition. Definitely. So, Scott, let me ask you a little bit back to the technical side.

How are the blocks processed on icon? Uh, yeah, so I con is just a traditional PBX. Um, you know, DPOs networks. So there's currently 22 validator nodes. There's going to be one leader. Uh, every two seconds that leader is going to propose a block and then the other deaf validators vote on it that all occurs in around two seconds.

So we have two second finale on icon, um, and, and that's kind of how it works right now. We're migrating to a new core software icon, 2.0, it's happening very soon. Um, We're adding three more Brock block producer slots where it's more from 22 to 2025. With those three additional slots are filled with, um, randomly selected, uh, Val bench validators, if you will.

So there's a hundred total validators that are eligible. The top 22 will always produce blocks. And then, um, of the other 78, there'll be picked at random to fill those other three slots. Um, and then that rotation happens in one. Hmm, that's pretty cool. Two second block times. Uh, how big are these blocks and how do you manage storage?

Um, I'm not sure the actual block size that would require a little more conversation with the core development team. Um, yeah. And store storage. There's no, nothing fancy in terms of storage. Um, something that I've talked to. Uh, the icon team about that I believe is implemented on Ethereum that I'd like to see the core team implement at some point.

Certainly no major rush is adding incentives to remove storage from the blockchain. I think it's really interesting. You can actually save gas costs like a transaction, uh, like, you know, as you're going through a transaction, it's racking up gas costs and then. If you have within that transaction, something that removes data from the blockchain database, it kind of adds like, uh, as a negative value to your gas costs.

So it lowers your total gas costs for that transaction. I'd like to see that added to icon. It's just like a kind of an idea, but, but right now it's pretty straightforward. Just, uh, you know, whatever data people want to store on it, they're going to pay a certain amount and it's gonna. Yeah, that's interesting.

I've never heard of removing old blockchain data. Wouldn't that change like the previous block data and the therefore the hashes and everything. It's not quite like that. Like the way you're thinking of like changing previous blocks, it's more like changing the necessary storage for the current. So like within each smart contract there's databases, right.

And you can add or remove data from that database. And that'll be like the current state of the blockchain. So, you know, for most blockchains right now, there's no incentive to ever remove data from your smart contract is going to keep growing and growing and growing. You may want to save down like the history of ever every trade that ever happened on your decks.

Right. The only penalty for that currently is like a one-time guest fee. Every time you save that transaction. But then, uh, that history take that cloth, you know, adds bloat to the blockchain node and the node operators need to keep increasing their storage. So there is like some longterm kind of net negative effects of that you get really bloated.

So he wants some incentive for developers to like add to their transactions, like add, uh, methods that. You know, remove data from a dataset, not necessarily key data, but just a small, like some metadata that isn't really pertinent to after the transaction. It's only pertinent to making transaction right then.

Right. Like historical data is like a primary, like right now, you're not going to see people saving, like every, you know, some people may save every single trade that ever happened or like, you know, the balances of, uh, LP tokens, like snapshot at every single day for the, for the, you know, for the rest of history.

Right? Like you don't need to see. You can start removing that history and that should save you. Get that, that would, you know, what I was talking about that would save you money on the transaction to start removing a data from the database. Gotcha. Very cool. So I know you've talked a lot about, uh, some stuff in the future, but if you could outline maybe the roadmap, uh, from now to the, maybe the next year what's going on with icon.

So yeah, I'd say. Like short-term were going to be migrating to icon 2.0, uh, has like Jeff Java, virtual machine, um, you know, the smart contracts. Uh, there's a lot of features for, um, developers that are gonna enable more Dow functionality, which I'm really excited about as someone who's building an app in the ecosystem.

Um, and also like the most important thing enabled ETP. So I think like, uh, from short term, we're looking at, you know, more apps launching getting that define infrastructure by the end of the year. Along with a BTP, starting to pick up some, pick up the pace and get more assets within the icon ecosystem and get icon based assets added in other ecosystems.

So I'd say that's kind of like the short term and then like more next year I'm looking at. Making like optimizing BTP, ironing out, any kinks that we noticed, like the transaction fees, right. Um, you know, how many relays do we need? Like, what are the cost of the relays? Like really optimizing BTP and making it and getting more integrations.

I see that being a major focus, right. Awesome. Scott, thanks so much for your time today, coming on and sharing all this awesome info with us left to have you back on in the future. We have, uh, icon's website and their Twitter, as well as, uh, your Twitter Scott linked in the bio below. So if you guys want to find out more information about this project, go right down there.

Um, but Scott, I just want to give you, uh, one last opportunity. If you have any shout outs you want to make or any other, uh, ideas you got on your mind, uh, the floor is. Yeah. I mean, I would definitely just say, like right now it'd be, I definitely recommend checking out, you know, icons live apps O and m.finance balance.network, uh, icon bag, project Nebula.

There's a lot that craft.network, if you're really into NFTs, um, you know, there's a lot of great stuff going on in our ecosystem. So, uh, you know, follow me on Twitter and, and you'll, and you'll be sure to know, uh, all the most recent updates. Awesome. Yeah. Thanks guys. Really, really appreciate coming on the show.

Really good questions. Really good quality conversation, and really hope to do it again soon. Yeah, you we'd be happy to have you back. All right. Take these guys.

All right. Hope you guys enjoyed that interview. I thought it was pretty good. Uh, we got money mentioned the background. I'm curious to hear, uh, what he thought about it, but Brian, what did you think? Um, I, I liked it. I liked, uh, everything you're saying about icon. There's a lot of stuff that I didn't. It made me think about certain things that I haven't really.

Put into thought beforehand after he mentioned it. Like, even though the last conversation we were having about removing old data that is not needed anymore and, um, to, you know, de blow the whole entire blockchain, which is pretty cool. I, you know, there's a lot more that goes into it there because that could be kind of tricky, but I didn't really even think about, you know, utilizing something like that and just how I con does everything.

It's, it's very interesting. Ryan you got anything for us? I thought it was really cool. I like how we've had cosmos on and now icon. I mean, there's similar projects, but collaborative. So it's super cool to see them both. I really liked their ecosystem too. And I thought it was cool that we got to hear about balanced style and a few of the other applications on there.

And I mean, right now, the only way to access some of those tokens are actually through icon. So it'll be interesting, you know, if this gets really big, you know, who knows where these tokens could end up and a lot of people could have access to them eventually. Yeah, I'm going to have to reach out to the, uh, polka dot guys that we did on that Benzinga crypto festival panel.

Uh, and see if we can get them on to complete the, uh, interoperability, trifecta, uh, Kusama or the things whose Sama it is really cool that they both had the same idea. Where they want to work together, even though they're quote unquote competitors in a sense, but they don't view each other as competitors.

They view each other as working together to broaden the whole horizon. And I think that in the blockchain community and everything, we touched on a few times, I think that is one of the most important things for sustainability in this space. So I think that is awesome. I mean, nothing but respect for that, we should just have them on to fight who's better, but you know, that's, that's a different conversation.

I have a feeling it's not going to happen. No, it won't. They'll just call me an idiot cause I am, and then we'll just move on and be happy because everyone was working together. And that was my true purpose. When. Full circle. Uh, yeah, no, but I think what he said about the growing, the growing pie, uh, is really accurate because right now cryptocurrency has the same amount of users as the internet did in 1997.

And, uh, I wasn't around back. But I could imagine the internet was pretty small, uh, in its infancy stages back then. And now it's so much bigger. You can get on it instantly with a piece of metal in your pocket. You don't have to dial up. Uh, and that's basically where we are with blockchain painful too, and cryptocurrencies right now.

So, uh, if you're wondering whether or not it's too late to buy crypto, Probably not, they probably will never be. I mean, it, as long as we're older, cause there's going to be newer, this isn't going away. It really isn't. I'm glad that the internet isn't like how it was when I was, you know, seven to 10 years old.

But. It's kind of cool. I didn't know that fact that we have as much users now in the blockchain space as when the internet started. And like multiple guests have said blockchain is that is, you know, even better than how the internet was when it first came out. It's pioneering a whole new world for us.

So it was an exciting, special tree for you right now. Get ready. Hit it yet. Ready? Get ready. Get ready? Get ready. Sneak peak. Ah, shoot. I share the wrong screen. I still do though. It's a sneak peek of Twitter and Ft profile verification right there. So here's what that's cool. Let's go back a little bit. Uh, so you, uh, you go to change your profile picture, right?

And, uh, You pick your wallet. Okay. Um, that's really, really cool.

On a little side note, a friend of my Mo uh, someone post sick. So, and I know just asked me if I worked for Bitcoin because they want to talk about some of them. They said, I heard you worked for Bitcoin. Can we talk about it? You know, Bitcoin. That was the Toshi. Yeah. I don't know how old she is or anything, but I'm assuming that she might not know much about crypto, but that was really cute.

That was funny. I always forget. What's the CEO of Bitcoin's name again? Uh, Craig, right?

Steve flops. Okay. Rick Sanchez. Yeah. John jobs. Steve jobs is a cousin. It's definitely not Lil Uzi vert. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. He's the CEO, those mixed nuts, uh, very easy to confuse them. Uh, although smart contracts and stuff, he was running a node in that diamond, in his head too.

Yeah, we'll have to clip that back into the beginning. Yeah, that's a good one. All right, we're coming up on an hour. So I think we will call it here. Thank you guys all so much for tuning into moon or bus today. If this is your first time on the show, welcome smash. The like if you enjoyed it and make sure to subscribe to the channel.

Also, if you're here for crypto hit up the Benzinga crypto YouTube channel, it's a separate channel. First link in the description below. We're going to be doing a giveaway to one of the first thousand subs. So get in early. Uh, that's all I got Brian or Ryan. You guys have anything else for today? Follow Ryan on Twitter.

Follow me. All right, guys. Good call. All right. Uh, from Ann Arbor, Michigan, Lil Uzi vert signing off. I was going to come up with another pond. I couldn't go. No, it's done. Been off five seconds.

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Episode Summary:

Crypto CrashEIP-3664Evergrande Debt CrisisSuperBid InterviewMoon or Bust - To Play Moon or Bust go to https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrency

Guests:

Maxwell Grosse

About our Guest: Maxwell Grosse (Over 6 years of engineering, program management, risk management and business development experience. Former Boeing Defense, Space, and Security engineer. Over 5 years of cryptocurrency market and blockchain research experience.) wil be on to talk about SuperBid’s NFT marketplace and update us on recent developments for SuperBid.

Check Out Other Benzinga Podcasts Here:Check Out All Benzinga Crypto News HereGet Moon or Bust Crypto Merch HereJoin the Telegram:https://t.me/moonorbustBZfor 25% of Moon or Bust Podcast swag.Claim 1000 ZING airdrop: https://www.benzinga.com/zing

Meet The Hosts:

Brian Moir

Solidity and React Developer | Blockchain Enthusiast | Decentralized Internet Advocate | Crypto investor since 2012

https://twitter.com/moirbrian

Logan Ross

Blockchain Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain | Crypto investor and educator since 2016

https://twitter.com/logannross

Ryan McNamara

Bought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | Liquidated on ByBit | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2016 (sorry planet Earth) | $UNI Bag Holder

https://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamara

Disclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.

Unedited Transcript

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Subscribe to ourBenzinga Crypto Youtube Channel

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Episode Summary:

Bitcoin Holding the Line Chainlink + Boost Mobile + CardanoBull Market UpdateCrypto TaxationMoon or Bust - To Play Moon or Bust go to https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrency

Tokens talked about on the show:

Bitcoin, Sushi, ADA,COTI, Chiliz,Zilliqa

Guests:

Ricky Lavina CEO ofTaxfyle

https://www.taxfyle.com/

Resources:

IS ETHEREUM A GOOD INVESTMENT?

Check Out Other Benzinga Podcasts Here:Check Out All Benzinga Crypto News HereGet Moon or Bust Crypto Merch HereJoin the Telegram:https://t.me/moonorbustBZfor 25% of Moon or Bust Podcast swag.Claim 1000 ZING airdrop: https://www.benzinga.com/zing

Meet The Hosts:

Brian Moir

Solidity and React Developer | Blockchain Enthusiast | Decentralized Internet Advocate | Crypto investor since 2012

https://twitter.com/moirbrian

Logan Ross

Blockchain Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain | Crypto investor and educator since 2016

https://twitter.com/logannross

Ryan McNamara

Bought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | Liquidated on ByBit | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2016 (sorry planet Earth) | $UNI Bag Holder

https://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamara

Disclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.

Unedited Transcript

Hello, zinger nation. Welcome back to flight 50, aboard the moon or bust rocket. Ship your home for all things, all coins and defy. My name is Logan Ross, and I am piloting today's mission along with defy developer, Brian Moore and Ryan mutant, ape McNamara. How y'all doing. Doing good. Happy mute in Monday.

Uh huh. Are you just coming up with this now? Or is this a fake? No, it's a real thing. Oh yeah. What do you do on said mute and what do you do on set Newton Monday and some you and Monday you'd understand if you had them urinate, but if I wasn't a poor, I would get myself a mutant today's episode is brought to you by the numbers.

Uh, also before we can get started, I need to, to talk about some safety procedures, uh, on this rocket ship. So I need all who are willing and able seated in any of the rows to please activate their light button into the, on position to let other, uh, space travelers metaverse travelers know that moon or bust is where.

At, uh, also got to point out the Benzinga crypto YouTube channel in the description below. If you are here for the crypto content, then you should be there as well. We are going to start streaming exclusively from that channel as soon as it hits 1000 subscriber Rooney's so, uh, go over there and get in early, we'll be doing a giveaway to one of our.

1000 subs. When we hit that, mark, I'm thinking an ENS domain would be pretty cool as a giveaway, but I'm open to hear what you guys think, what you guys want as well. What's good. STBC nice to see you again. Uh, okay. So we also have a telegram channel and we got some sick moon or bust merge. See this, this dope eith hat right here.

Uh, if you join the telegram, we'll toss you a. 5% off discount code. Can't get that alpha anywhere else on the. All right with that out of the way, make sure to connect with us on Twitter as always come say what's up, our DMS are open. Uh, and also I want to remind you guys that we are going to try to start bringing on some of our best guests, our best viewers.

Uh, if you are here often in the comments, then hit us up. If you want to come on and we will make it happen. So let's get into the news for today. So I want to start with the chain link Cardinal. Partnership. This is huge for the blockchain space in general. I think mostly for chain link. We'll see a lot of that value from ADA, uh, flow into chain link and it will connect it to Yves, polka dot all these other dope ecosystems.

So it's good to see that Cardona is integrating, uh, with chain link. Uh, I, you know, I have positions in both of these. I think it's good news. For both assets, Ryan, what do you think about this integration? Yeah, it's definitely interesting. I like your point, Logan. I think it is more bullish for chain-link than it is for ADA, because chain-link is going to be multi chain now to a degree, you know, it's, it's diversifying the risk for chain link.

Now, if a theory ends up failing in some hypothetical scenario, then chain link can still survive. Unlike most tokens on Ethereum's network. If a theorem were to fail, then mostly these tokens that are on Ethereum. We'll fail with it. But now that chain link is integrating with Kurt donno. It has another avenue to kind of diversify risks.

So I agree with you, Logan. This is very bullish for link. I think it's also very bullish for Cartano. It's very important to have an Oracle on a network and there's no one better than chain links. I think this is bullish for, for both ADA and for chain-link dope. Brian, do you have any additional thoughts on this partnership?

No, I think it's going to work really, really well for them. I mean, chain-link is integrated into a whole. Uh, set of projects that you wouldn't even under, wouldn't even realize they are. And the amount of like technology and data you can get back from channeling is astounding. So I think it's really exciting.

So does this mean that that chain link will be on Kardos network as a Cardinal token? Uh, I guess that would make sense. Yeah. I mean, I would assume they would eventually have that, but really, I think they're just running a node, which they can integrate it into Cardona so you can get data from. Yeah. I mean, I don't think they'll mint, new tokens that are like eight, a formatted.

They might move over a bunch of them. And they also might try to switch link over to like a chain link based token or asset, which, uh, would be pretty cool as well. Uh, what's up, Zolty see you out there in the chat doing what. I hope you're doing well. Also, you see, STBC, uh, is down to come on, talk some NFTs with us.

Uh, that would be pretty cool. Uh, so let's set that up, brother. Uh, okay. So next up, Ryan, I think you have this piece of news. Yeah, man, you got to pull up open. See you gotta see this diamond hands NFT investor who made $2.8 million on a single NFT in a matter of months now he didn't even have thousands of dollars.

He had $100 and he, he made that into $2.8 million on a single Cromey squiggle and Ft. Talking about money. It's about 20,000 times return on his investment. Not person. It's about 2000000% return on his investment. Okay. So I have Z pulled up here. How should I go about finding this? Should I just go to our blocks and look forward in the squiggles?

I would, I would go to the squiggles look under recent sales and scroll down until you see a 945 E trade. Then 945 ether equates to about $2.8 million. Just over that off of a $100 investment. That's ridiculous. So this is the second crummy squiggle we've seen sell for over $2 million this week, which I think is incredibly bullish for chromium squiggles.

We've seen the floor go from about eight or nine Eve. Now it's up to about 13 and a half Eve. So over 50% alpha on Ethereum alone. I'm excited to see where this project goes. I've been watching it for a while and I think it's only going to be going up right now with these super high sales for these rare chromium.

Very cool. Okay. So I have my screen share now live on this screen and this is sorted by recently sold. So, uh, uh, if you could just point out key rainbow boy, that's his name? He's chunky and very rainbow. That was chunky.

Uh, recently sword. Hey, the floor price is only what, 1.45 is that what it said? Yeah, but that's for all of our blacks, right? So our blacks has a ton of different collections. You have to filter it by a certain collection to sketch here. She is the chunker herself.

So Ryan, can you tell us a little bit about art blocks and about Cromey squiggles? Why this one is so valuable compared to the other ones? Yeah. So crummy, squiggles, I'm pretty sure it was actually the first collection of NFTs on art blocks and art boxes, almost like an art house for NFTs. They curate collections and they have a few different segments.

So art blocks curated is kind of like the most coveted NFTs in the art Black's collection. They also have a few other things. Art blacks Playhouse for some experimental art and a few other different things. But chromium squiggles, you see them all over crypto Twitter, lots of high-end NFT investors are getting into these and they're algorithmically generated pieces of art.

They're pretty cool. And I mean, some of them will sell for 10 to 15 Eve, but then you go up to these rare different types of traits with these crummy squiggles, and you can get into the millions of dollars now, as we've seen. That's crazy and look at it. It moves. I know. Tell the masses crummy squiggles move.

So this guy's zonked here. He, uh, was clearly very early in art blocks. Let's see what else he's got in his collection.

Minted that crummy squiggle. And like I said, it was about a hundred dollars on it nine months ago. Wow, man. Why didn't you tell me about that? I thought I did, man. Put any Cromey squiggles that man don't let me down again. Okay. Okay.

Interesting. Not really, honestly so far. Not really. Well, I guess he doesn't really have to care about really much for quite a while. He's getting, he does other art, blacks too. I mean, that's what you see. A lot of these blue-chip NFT collectors are collecting art blocks, Ponce and board apes. And we should also talk about cool cats.

Uh, well, we're talking NFTs. This became the third project. Hit a ten eighth floor just yesterday. The hype surrounding them is pretty crazy right now.

Yeah. I wanted to get one a while ago, but I never pulled the trigger. I saw the potential, but at the same time, it sounds corny. I didn't really like the art, right. I didn't buy it. I didn't like the art. And as with a lot of those early NFTs, we see them increase in value. I think that a pudgy penguins could be next.

I think they're sitting around three to 4, 8, 4. I haven't checked lately, but we saw those gains some hype early on, same with cool cats. And now we see them appreciating even more. Now I'm thinking the, the whales is secret society of Wales. That's, that's my, I do own a few of the, a few of those, and I'm hoping that those will be the next ones, a hype.

And there've only been three NFT projects to hit the 10 eith for first it was crypto punks, then it was board apes, and now it is cool cat. So it'll be interesting to see what the fourth project to hit that 10 eith four will be. Cause there's more it in it's going to be inevitable that these blue-chip NFT projects will get more and more.

So speaking of big money spent on the Ethereum blockchain, uh, this morning, uh, Bitfinex, the exchange made a little oopsie, uh, and while transferring a hundred thousand dollars of tether, they spent, uh, let's see. $23.7 million on gas. So you guys thought you were paying a lot of gas fees? Uh, not, not quite as much as Bitfinex.

Not really sure what went wrong here. They must have not set a limit, uh, and some sort of loop, maybe in a smart contract caused it to just burn and burn and burn. So they spent $23 million in fees to make a single hundred thousand dollar, uh, transfer of USD T. Oops, woopsy they probably half of that got burned, at least.

So, you know, maybe that affected the theory. I'm just a little bit, it was like a, it was really sad compared to the right. I know my inner mate with a lot of money, then let's say a minor does some sort of rig got paid handsomely. Oh, man. I hope it was mine. I see you have here on the, uh, on the dock, a hundred thousand dollars in tethered, $23 million.

It's this the future. Sure France. I, I hope not. Uh, okay. So we have a lot of stuff going on in the fungible token market, a lot of movement. Uh, we saw a weekly close yesterday. The one that we have been talking about for months, uh, but we will get to all of. After the interview. So today we have the CEO of tax file on, uh, with us today to talk about crypto taxes, uh, and how, um, tax file, you know, places itself in the industry.

So I'd like to welcome to stream Ricky. Levina. Thank you so much for joining us today. Hey guys, what's up? Not too much. Uh, so before we really dive into it, could you tell us a little bit about your background, uh, how you started tax filing? Sure. So I'm a, I'm a CPA. Uh, before I started Taxol, I worked for PricewaterhouseCoopers.

Um, and then some, some, some regional firms, but I'm a, I'm a CPA, I'm an accountant. And about, I'm sorry for the voice, uh, about six years ago started Taxol and my two co-founders, um, basically trying to democratize, uh, the supplies. Uh, things, uh, in the accounting industry, meaning I got a license, my CPA, or you could be an IRS enrolled agents.

Uh, but basically you have your, your county license and, uh, in the olden days you just had to go to a, to an accounting firm and the pay via W2. Right. Um, but I felt that our licenses were worth something, you know, uh, out in the market and, um, You know what thought it'd be really cool if we create a platform that will route jobs, uh, to them.

So, you know, Taxol is a, an app where you guys y'all could download it on, on, on iOS and get your taxes done, uh, directly through it, uh, via a CPA like myself, I'm not on the app, I'm saying I'm a CPA, but, uh, but we also, uh, route work from like institutionals. So if someone's outsourcing their accounting department or a CPA firm is.

Tight, uh, with, with, uh, with staff, which is a big trend over the past 12 months. And we think it's only gonna get worse now. Uh, they put all this work on, on the platform. And so, uh, our algorithm prices out all that work on an individual basis, uh, kind of works like match.com, um, based off, you know, there's different types of CPAs, right?

So if you specialize, let's say crypto taxes or something like. Uh, you'll get, you'll get matched up with these jobs. You'll see exactly how much you'll make on it. And, and by when you gotta do it by. So, um, that's a little bit about tax volume. Hmm. Awesome. Ricky. So I understand you're interested in crypto as well.

Yourself. Could you tell us why our audience of mostly crypto investors might be interested in using tax file? Uh, especially with the latest things going on in DC. No, it seems like crypto they're really hell bent on at least in the federal level to treat crypto as a security. Right. And, um, not all platforms, especially, you know, for, for your type of audience are, are, you know, using Coinbase and, uh, and their wallet, uh, you know, we're, we're using, you know, you know, Swiss products or, you know, uh, uh, Singaporean products and, and, and that could really fall through the loopholes.

Right. Uh, cause when you deal with. How crypto is trying to be treated in terms of, uh, from a tax position. Uh, you know, once you exit a position, right? Let's say you're moving from BTC to, to ease that now becomes a realizable event. And we don't really think about it, especially, you know, as, as you guys know, uh, let's say we're, um, you know, we're, we're, um, define, right.

And, uh, we're, we're collecting an interest and then. We decided to add some LP. Right? Uh, so, so we, we opened up a pool or we're in a pool or steaks and now, and now we want to, to get some action. You're getting interested in, in another one of the products on the website. Um, you know, you have, you have to track all these things and not all those entities are going to give you a tiny and I like Coinbase, right?

So it's not just when you move into. You know, and the government's pretty, at least they're saying they're going to be pretty serious about this. So it really helps to, uh, there's a lot of great apps out there, but it really helps to consult someone. Um, because given that. These platforms are in different countries and different transactions.

You mean different things. Are you moving, like you said, into a stable coin or are you, are you moving to something that's more volatile, right? Uh, you really have to be organized in terms of nutting out your gains and losses, and there's a ton of advantages there. So obviously Metta mask doesn't provide those tax documents like Coinbase does, as you said.

So what has been kind of the past method for reporting taxes, with defined Mehta mask events, uh, and what do you see as the better alternative that. Well remember, I just, I just supplied the people. So, uh, when you get linked up to one of our crypto pros, uh, they'll have their own software. Right. So similar to like Uber doesn't own the cars for the drivers.

Right. But depending on your complexity, our algorithm detects all. Yeah. This is a high-frequency trader or whoever. Right. As opposed to someone who just had one, you know, uh, one position in, on ether or BTC or light coin or something on their app. Right. Um, So, you know, that that's for Taxol could really help out from there.

It's, it's really consultative. Right. So, um, you know, you'll get matched up with your pro and you work through, uh, their software. They'll see, first of all, what you got, I think it starts really, um, you know, at home and being proactive on this stuff. So if you're looking to, you know, tax seasons, Not right around the corner.

Right. But we're getting closer to the end of the year. Or you may want to start getting organized, you know, ROC might be faced with a crap ton of work, uh, come January and you might have to extend and, and, and then you realize, oh wait, even though I had all these gains and if I'm extension, it's not an extension for payment, the IRS still.

Their money by April 15th. Right? So, um, we, we see that snowball for, for individuals, right? And, and the best thing they could do is, is, is work with someone. If you need help in advance to get organized or start getting organized yourself, because no one knows your, your, your crypto position like you. And, um, you know, and, and, and not, not, not even the best CPAs could look into, obviously w where, where you had realized.

So tell me about this algorithm you mentioned, is this a proprietary algorithm? Can it look through your meta mask transactions? How does it determine, uh, like the best fit CPA for you? So, um, I'll say it's, it's basically an intake form on our platform platform. It's called work layer that we use to power tax file.

And, uh, whether, like I said, it's, it's a crypto account or a 401k.

Question by question and start drilling into. Okay, well that didn't have a million transactions or, or was there one and in what, uh, in what platforms? Right? So on our end, it's, it's basically our job to find someone with that level of statistics. Right. And it's not want to say it's and it's the platform is doing and not, we don't have like an individual looking for coming through our 4,000 CPAs.

Um, you know, it's, it's someone, uh, that, that has has, you know, Some, some, I'm not going to prop up any tax, uh, crypto tax software, but they leveraged something in their, from that that really helps them out in terms of getting your schedule D uh, which is a schedule on 10 40 that you report, um, you know, all these transactions on and they could really help you, let's say net out your gains and losses.

Um, so that you're an optimal position. Okay. That makes sense. So what are some of the strategies you can use to lower your tax liability within crypto Korea? Or are there any, yeah, there definitely is. Uh, but, but it's all proactive, right? So if you have. Whatever happens in 2021. Right. And then you're trying to file your taxes.

Um, you're kind of limited, right? Because it is what it is. Uh, and, and, um, I would say that the, most of the best planning that we see cause cause there is no. Okay. So for you guys, uh, I don't know. You're familiar with. Okay. But before used to be like, oh, I'm training a light kind asset for another like-and asset.

And because I'm just rolling it forward from asset to asset the IRS, there used to be this gray area where you can say, okay, well that's not really a taxable event because I didn't get any cash from it. I didn't realize it. How am I going to pay taxes on something that I haven't gotten to cash from?

Right. Like, you're I have this basis of, you know, on paper to $12 million or whatever it is, but you know, my checking account only got 5,000. So how the hell am I gonna. You know, uh, a huge tax bill on that. Now with this new regulation. Um, it doesn't really matter. They're there, they're going to tax you for, for, for moving from asset class, asset class.

So that's why getting practice with this stuff is really important. You know, it may affect when you exit a position, right. Or when you switch from one point to another, if you need to go to. Um, USD, excuse me, or U S era tether or something like that, a stable coin, um, you know, and then eventually converted to, uh, to Fiat, you know, it's a pay your bill, but that's part of the planning, right?

So making sure that, you know, if you're going to attend any nine, this is going to be recorded as, as a game. Okay. Uh, I'm going to have this liability. Uh, the other part is. I know, I know everyone gets wrecked every now and then, uh, you know, I, I certainly have, uh, and we've been doing it for quite a while here at Taxol.

We've been trading, you know, for, for a few years, but, um, it's important to track all that because those losses offset your gains. Right. So, you know, don't, don't just think out of sight, out of mind, you know, onto the next one, you know, this is just a bad break record it, uh, because that would definitely offset, you know, Tax liability.

And are you able to write off gas fees as a transaction expense? That's a good point. Um, it depends on how you set it up. Um, so the IRS distinguish really between hobby and, and, and, uh, work, right? So let's say you have enough justification and it's kind of complex on, on determining this. It's more like I'm a lawyer.

Uh, you know, th that's making your case, uh, that you're a, you know, that you're doing this as an avid, this is your full-time job, right. As an avid worker, as opposed to just an enthusiast. Right. Um, this isn't something I just do in passing. Right. So, um, what that would trigger on your 10 40? Let's say, if you are active trader is.

Uh, which, which essentially means that on your 10 40, you have a schedule C or better yet, if you're incorporated now pros and cons are incorporated, you know, you want to track everything and, you know, and make sure that you're really on top of it all, because now you're incorporated and you're telling it to the world that you're trading crypto under this entity.

But the benefit are, yes, gas could be deducted, right? As, as, as cost of doing business, that's on your PNL. That's an expense, right? Obviously your, your. Your revenue on that business is your realized gains. Right. And on your balance sheet, right. Is, is the unrealized portion, right? So my long hole long-term holdings on a, on a position like ether or whatever.

Right. Um, so I would say if you qualify, you know, to do this as a legit business and, and the best way to do that. So as a Porter with the IRS, some corporate, even if it's just, you set up. Yeah, right. You know, uh, you know, coined Inc something and, um, I'm sure that's taken, I'm just giving you an example. And through that entity, you know, you, you log all your transactions and, um, if you do enough of it, you, you know, it may pass, uh, the test and want to talk about NFTs just shortly.

So our NFTs tax is the same way as other cryptocurrencies. So right now they're not. Um, but it seems like they're gonna move the way of being treated as any other security, you know? So, um, there's a ton of ambiguity. Uh, I think the, the funniest thing is that the people creating these slides, like before you get to NFTs, they, they, I mean, they don't even understand the blockchain, you know, proof of stake.

Like you talked to them about purpose. They can have no idea. So it's like, um, they're not even there. Uh, there's, there's a lot of gray area. I think it's, it's where we were in terms of general crypto tax laws, like four years ago. Like, how are you, how do we treat Bitcoin? Uh, so, uh, To be honest, there's just, you have to just take it situation by situation.

Right? How big of a profile is this in terms of, uh, you as an individual, uh, maybe working with a CPA, if you have a big, uh, profile here and a lot of the, you know, In my experience, not just in crypto, but just, you know, uh, consulting for clients and, uh, what I've seen, you know, through the tens of thousands of users that we have here, you know, attacks all, um, and maybe even hundreds of thousands of returns at the end schedules that we do every year.

Um, Is is, is taking a rational approach to it, right? Like, am I just blowing off millions and millions of dollars? I'm not going to, you know, be reporting here or really, you know, obviously that's illegal. Right. But it's like, okay, well, how big am I into NFTs? And how open, how, you know, you have an opportunity to get up front of it just because it's not tax season.

Doesn't mean you can make an essay, made a pain in our two, which, you know, ahead of time, which really. Um, to be in the good gracious of the IRS, right? Because let's say down the road, they make a mistake or you have to open up a case with them or something that happens to everyone, you know, mistakes happen and it happens pretty frequently.

Um, and. It probably happened to anyone, you know, by the time, you know, we're dead in the ground here, uh, you know, over the next 30, 50, hopefully 60 years. But, um, when that does happen, you want to make sure you have a clean record. Right. And that all that stuff that you're open and you're upfront with stuff, and you worked well with them and you got ahead of the payments.

So my follow-up question to that was can you claim losses for an NFT, say by selling it before the end of the year, if it loses value and then buying it back, I think you kind of already answered it. It's just not regulated enough, but, uh, do you have an answer for. I honestly, I don't, I don't. And, and, and here's the thing, they're not going to see it as an NFT.

They're going to see it as some type of acid, right. Whether it's security or another type of asset. Right. So that's why I said it depends case by case, you know, uh, your 10 40 is your, year's like a storybook. It's a, it's a chapter in your book, right. For the IRS, um, for that year. And, uh, depending on how all the narratives kind of string together depends on whether you're in a stronger weaker.

Interesting. So, um, you said that they're trying to classify NFTs as securities also. Um, what would be their motivation behind this? Maybe just collect more tax money, like I'm guessing fine art isn't, isn't considered a security and it's taxed differently, right? Uh, so why wouldn't they apply the same rules there?

Like I said, I just don't think, I just think that people that, that are, have running these laws and in, in this infrastructure infrastructure, bill just weren't focused on NFTs, like, or an expertise, right. They got, you know, their, their lobbyists from whatever institution, you know, it's definitely not from Coinbase or from someone that knows what's kind of what's going on.

Although they're having more presence, you know, in the industry, uh, whether it's a good thing or a bad thing. Uh, but. Um, it's probably someone from B of a right. Protecting their own interests. So, um, yeah, it's not really called on the new bill. Um, they want to classify th they throw this all blockchain stuff as they want to treat all blockchain.

Okay. As a security it's wild. I know. And I know that it could be true, you know, depending on what we're doing on blockchain.

You know, comparing apples to oranges, like, like in this case, in this example of NFTs. Right? So, um, that's, that's, that's where we're at right now. Uh, yeah, I think that, that if there would be a Silicon valley of cryptocurrency, the us is doing everything they can to push it outside of its borders. Uh, I think this is probably going to be detrimental.

For the, for innovation and crypto innovation, blockchain innovation inside the U S would you agree with that? Ricky? It's weird. I didn't try out for the 20th time band. Right. So I have no idea what's going on. Um, I really don't. It's tough. It's it's like, okay, well, are they just. You know, some people are saying they're trying to sink it so that they could buy low legal again, and then it farms, and then it's illegal for the 20, you know, for the 21st time.

Um, you know, so. I don't even think it's like 40 trusting it, to be honest with you guys. I don't think, um, like in terms of, I mean, this bill is in the trillions of dollars, right? Like just the bill itself. Okay. there, there's so much things pushed through this thing that it's not like it's a crypto bill, right?

It's it's it, it had his own little card out, you know, with its own, you know, group of lobbyists, uh, on it that had their opinion. They're obviously gonna. And try to get this, uh, uh, this, uh, the section on the bill in their favor. Right. Who, who knows what that is in terms of position, but, um, in terms of the U S trying to push crypto off shore, you know, I don't, I don't think they really care about that, you know, because they just saw China, you know, make it illegal.

So then, then when, I mean, Know Chinese, the most populated country. We'll try to do some self a crypto here. Right. You know, they, you, you, you guys all seen it on Twitter. Although the mining equipment being steamrolled by bulldozer and the CCP putting that out there. Right. So. I have no idea. I definitely know that, you know, decentralized decentralization and blockchain, you know, gives, gives power to the people and, and that's, um, that's why it's, it's a really hot topic, you know, and it empowers individuals like us and it's really, but also makes it really exciting.

Belly. So back to another question on taxation, are there any types of transactions in crypto that are not taxable events? Say maybe if I put my money into a smart contract, you brought up the example of maybe a liquidity pool earlier. If my money is in a liquidity pool and it's transferring between say Ethan Bitcoin is each one of those traction, a transactions, a taxable event, or is that considered something else?

Now? All those high-frequency stuff. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So it sucks. I know. Um, yeah, it definitely sucks. So right now, the way that the realized gain is being realized, even though you're not moving to Fiat. Okay. At all, like. You know, it's, it's not like you're getting out your block five card and you're paying for something.

Right. Um, it doesn't matter. They're, they're treating that as the exchange of one asset to another, that ties back into my previous point about how they got away from like on exchanges. Right? In the past you could say that's a light kind of change an asset for an asset, but now no, they've been pretty explicit on that.

That's, that's a realized transaction. And depending on whether you're taking a loss on those micro transactions or game, all, getting that out at the end, That's interesting, especially for a program like Unisoft because they meant me. I provide liquidity on UNICEF and they made me an NFT. So really I'm holding the non fungible token, which has underlying assets in it.

And at any given time it could be chain-link or Ethereum, depending on the ratio between those two. It's constantly trading. So, I mean, to me, it just doesn't seem realistic for the government to ask for me to be like, realize all of these gains when I'm not really even realizing them. I just am holding a non fungible token that represents any given ratio at any time of these two assets.

Yeah. Um, I was, it was a Coinbase. I don't know who it was. Um, uh, but a few weeks ago on Twitter, they, you know, they were really going into, uh, the reporting requirement. That the brokers, because they're getting treated like brokers. Right? So, um, so this high frequency, uh, high frequency, but this liquidity pool, who is the third unit swap unit swap, are they based here in the U S uh, Unisoft labs is.

Yeah. All right. So they will be responsible for, uh, 10 89. That's going to be a disaster for them. That's why it's almost impossible for them really. And the overhead, the expense to just track all that and to sort that out and send it out in the liability that's associated with it. I think the liability is a real reason why Coinbase was being so vocal about this.

Um, because it's, it's nuts. It's crazy. So it's really on them. But the alternate responsibilities on you. So they have their own requirement, you know, that's why they were looped into this latest bill, right. The brokerage requirement and really anything over $10,000 has to, has to be tracked. So it's basically everything in a second.

Yeah, exactly. So anything over $10,000, they got. All right. Um, the government's trying to put this, uh, responsibility on them because they think that'll add pressure to you guys, right. Or to us. Right. So then report, because if we know it's being tracked that Coinbase or something, right. Um, what happens is on there on a 10 99, they give you a copy, but.

Uh, you know, side of it goes to the IRS, right? So, uh, once that's done, then you're like, oh, well I gotta report this now. Right. So, so that's the whole spirit behind the law. Um, obviously without diving into the practicality of interesting. So the units will have protocol is decentralized with the unit swap labs team operates outside of the U S if I was in their position, I would just like go to The Bahamas or go somewhere outside of the U S boundaries.

And then their problem is solved. Uh, well, you know, the IRS are going to say no because technically, yeah, technically they, they need to report this. Right. Cause, uh, um, the certain, uh, knowing your investor, you know, we know this, you know, you know, anytime there was an initial coin offering ICO or whatever, right.

You know, you can't accept someone from the U S and you know, some of crazy rules right on, on the brokerage, you know, knowing your investor, uh, type stuff. Um, technically they still have the responsible. Hmm. What about say you're running a trading bot and, um, you know, you're trading almost, you know, just as quickly as a liquidity pool, but you're, you're using a third party software.

And then on something that allows it like Coinbase pro or all that stuff. So you're pretty much saying that every single transaction, no matter what you use or how you do it, that's tax just like how a stock is. That's doesn't matter, which it doesn't matter which program now it's, it's, it's all treated like the security and, uh, you, once you exit a position, that's it, that's, that's what the training is a taxable event.

It doesn't mean when you come back from, you know, the realm of, of, of crypto into Fiat, it doesn't matter anymore whenever, any exit of any position. And then if let's say you're just doing defy, right? So let's say. I don't know I'm DePaul. I got it. All right. So, uh, probably cat or Becca or something like that.

Let's say, let's say, you know, you just staking there and you're earning interest. Right. But that's your only position, right? You came in with Fiat, right. With USD in my case, right. That went to tether and then tether. I used to swap on Q coin for. Yeah, or something like that or for Kai and then kind of tobacco.

Okay. Forget about all those micro-transactions leading up, which technically will be taxable events, but there's not really a holding period gain or loss there. Cause I'm just swapping one for one. Uh, once I move into backline and I start earning interest on it, that's, that's essentially taxable interests.

Right. So my base is. Right. My basis isn't and the, and let's say, you know, usually obviously with defy, you know, the, the value of the coin actually goes down, but let's pretend that the value goes up. Right. And you want to exit that position, right? Well, unless you exit that, that, that Beko coin to something else, like higher or something like that.

You're not going to get taxed on, on it's. Cause it's unrealized. Right. But the, but the interest is, so your earnings is cause that's paying now, right? So you have two. Technically report that obviously, you know, I don't know what that goes out of, but I don't think it's the U S um, and they're not gonna issue a Tahlia nine.

So, I mean, kind of go look with that or reconciling all that. Yeah. I think a lot of people, a lot of trainers myself and. Pretty much anyone we've talked to you're talking about are going to have kind of a really big eye-opener when it comes to next year's taxes. I mean, last year I did my taxes for crypto and everything, but you're kind of, a lot of people were confused and there wasn't as many rules, but now people are gonna flip, you know, it's just going to be kind of a little overwhelming.

So we have people, you know, hire professional to actually look at it and say, That's why we have tax file. That's right. Yeah. It's like, it's, it's a process. You guys, you and your listeners should have, try to get out of, to be honest with you, um, you know, start planning and think about what happened this past year in terms of just start with what projects were you in, right.

And how. That could be perceived by these guys. All right. By the IRS, you know, so it wasn't earning interest. Was I, you know, what was I doing? What was it? Was it just simply trading, you know, on Q coin or something. Right. Um, and then think about all the transactions you made. That's why you hold there. Um, think about all the transactions you made and then, um, Yeah, don't take your gains and losses and then start working with someone, um, to see, okay, well, we should really should start paying on this, right?

Because even if you have an exit, a position, but you're earning interest on something, you still have to make probably quarterly payments on it. Right. Like I said, just when you, cause you extend your tax, your tax form, your filing deadline, right. The IRS is always going to want their money. Right. So, so when you, oh, All right.

Uh, they want you to start paying and at the end of the year, right, the fiscal year is over for them. Right. You're going to have a balance due, right. So you have to start planning as to how you're going to pay that. Obviously, then they're not going to take crypto Fiat, but take USD. Right? So you have to probably think about what you want to exit to be liquid enough to don't have to pay that bill, if you're lucky enough to do.

You know, obviously on the, on the right side of that, on that ledger, you could obviously have a loss and then that's great. That'll go against your regular earnings. Your, if you have another job or something never been wanting a loss more than right now. Uh, so Ricky, I'm sure we'll be in touch. Uh, I'm sure you have, you have experts.

I'm assuming for all these defy NFT crypto tax. Yeah. Yeah, we definitely do. So if you just go to tax law.com sign up. All right. Cool. Thank you. Um, and, and you'll get connected. You just answer some simple questions and then you can start consulting with a CPA and they can help be your therapist to the whole process, right?

For no extra charge. All right, guys. Uh, this was Ricky. Levina the CEO and co-founder of tax file. If you guys are deep into. Maybe a little bit too deep, like I'm realizing I am right now. Uh, make sure to check out tax file link in the description below. They can get you hooked up with an expert so you can get on top of your taxes this year.

Ricky, thank you for joining us. Exactly. All righty. Hope you guys enjoyed that interview. If you're just tuning in. Now we did a little bit of news earlier and we are about to do our market update and moon or bust at the same time. So, uh, we're gonna start off with a couple of cryptos that we picked out, uh, and then we will pass it to you, drop your coins and your NFT projects that you're looking at in the chat.

Uh, and we'll pull them up, do a little market update for you. Uh, let's get it started with some BTC and some, a theory on the classics. Give me a second to pull up trading view. Ryan, is there anything else you've been looking at this week that you might want to take a peak into? Um, I wouldn't mind looking at sushi swap since I have been buying some of that up over the past week, but definitely Bitcoin, since everything follows Bitcoin and Ethereum would be good too.

And we also saw a unit swap plus 25% yesterday. Uh, so we'll have to check that one out as well. Please work, Mr. Trading view.

Okay. So here we have Bitcoin USD pair, uh, through the BitMEX exchange. Uh, and what we saw, uh, is a weekly close right around this bull market support ban that we've been talking about for months now. So. Watching last week, uh, we said the most bullish scenario would be to, uh, close the weekly candle right around this line.

And. Sunday, as we went into the close, we saw a huge rally right to the line we've been talking about. So a little bit, uh, called it there. Uh, and we see this second, this new weekly candle forming, uh, it had a wick up, but now it is a little bit in the red, slight pullback this afternoon. Um, but I don't think we are in dangerous territory yet by any means.

I think this is still very, very, very bullish and I am prepared. For takeoff. Brian, what do you think? Yeah, I think that we pretty much called it and it kind of followed the exact supporting technicals. We laid out because you know, Bitcoin's not going anywhere. It's here to stay and people realize that, and I don't think it fell below 40,000.

Yeah, there's a wig just barely, but just a little bit below the bulls are definitely winning right now. At least it's seems we've tried to go down and break that $40,000 mark. And it seems like we are holding the line. Like Logan said, these next couple of weeks are definitely going to be definitive though for Bitcoin and its price going through the rest of quarter four in this year, I'm starting to get FOMO already.

Seeing us holding the slide now four weeks in a row. I think that's pretty strong support. And I mean, I'm scared that I'm going to be stuck in some Fiat currency and I'll have to be buying during the pump. But I mean, we have a couple more weeks. I think we'll see where it goes and I'll, I'll certainly be dollar cost averaging my position specifically into sushi for the upcoming week or a couple of weeks.

Maybe you should save some of that for your taxes, Ryan? No, I don't have any profits. Don't worry about it. Yeah. I've lost enough. You hear that? STC or IRS? Uh, okay, so let's pull up sushi since you've been talking about it so much, uh, I believe your thesis is show you, is that correct? Show you is definitely a big part of it specifically because they are paying very large dividends to sushi holders with show you NFT.

It's going to be 2.5% of the transaction feeds on the platform. Right now they pay dividends. They pay 0.05% of the transactions fees on the decentralized exchange. But I just, I really like my thesis is basically, I really like how they're adding value to the sushi token. They're finding different ways to diversify it, to pay dividends out to the sushi token holders.

And I also like how it's being actively developed and they're making new programs that really don't have anything to do with the decentralized exchange or making NFT marketplace. They have a token launch pad and they have a lot of other features. I think that'll do them very well over the one. Nice. So do you have a target price for sushi in the next couple weeks?

Not in the next couple of weeks, I've been trying to buy, whenever it dips down to around nine to $10, I'm trying to get an under that $10 is my average cost, because I think this could be a 10 X over the market cycle right now. There's about a $1.2 billion valuation. So 10 X would bring you up to 12 billion, which, yeah, that's a lot of money, but a lot of other crypto projects already have that.

I think fast probably. More than $12 billion in market cap. And I could see sushi overtaking eventually, uh, which isn't good for my bags, but it hopefully will be eventually once I, once I stack up the sushi. So you say, you think you can, uh, see sushi taking over a unit swap. Uh, it's hard. It's really hard to say.

I think there is potential for it because of all these different avenues that are being developed to earn dividends for sushi is tokens as well as all the different programs being built on sushi. But it's hard to say because I mean, you know, swap was out first and at the end of the day, sushi swapped did fork from union swap.

So. Some stigma there. Uh, and you know, the swap will definitely be going up with the markets. And if sushi, 10 X is then, I mean, you know, the swaps probably going to be going up quite a bit to probably not 10 X in, just because there's so much more capital that would have to be involved for, you know, swap to 10 X, then it would be for sushi because, you know, swap has such a higher market capitalization.

We might have one inch and offshoots like that kind of happened to yep. I have some one inch and I'm expecting that to do pretty well with the general markets. It's a Dex aggregator. So, I mean, it works alongside a lot of these other programs. Yeah. So yesterday we saw a uni rip from 17 books at the bottom to about $25 at the top.

I'm sure a lot of traders had a good day and just as many had an equally bad day. Uh, it's pulled back a little bit since then. Um, but it still looks like a breakout, in my opinion. I mean, you can kind of see this line here. Maybe not a breakout may be more of a fake-out, but we'll have to see the next two days next, next couple of days, uh, will be very telling, as Ryan said.

Uh, so Brian, you have anything you want me to pull up or should we go to this plethora of coins we have in the chat? Yeah, just pull up ADA for a second. Alrighty. So ADA also announced during their, um, Their car Dano summit 2021 summit that they are not only integrating with chain link, but also being the strategic partner for dish network who owned also has a subsidiary boost mobile.

So they are going during in talks where, um, I H okay. Uh, media, which is the company that brought us Cartano is I'm going to be helping them build things such as. The proof of coverage for cell phones or dish network, um, having your identity on the blockchain and having, um, uh, referral programs through Cardona.

So there's a lot of stuff going on there. I mean that overnight we'll bring, once that's implemented, we'll bring over nine to 10 million views. Over to the condo, blockchain over just like that. So there's a lot of, there's a lot of bullish movements here, even though they've been slow to run things out.

There's a lot of people that trust them. And, you know, we think that Charles Hoskins cause hearts, you know, should I say it kind of doubles it hot, hard skin sins is going to, um, actually make things happen. I mean, I I'm very, it makes me even way more bullish. ADA and Cardona in general than I have ever been.

And I've always liked it. So I'm pretty pumped about it too. This is smart contracts yet kind of, kind of. So what's a smart contract. You who needs them, apparently you don't apparently. Uh, okay. So speaking of Cardinal partnerships also chain link. We talked about this a little bit earlier. They are integrating with the car Dano network for Oracles into the real world.

Uh, this is going to be very bullish, uh, for chain link. And Cartano both. We see, uh, we saw some, some crazy price action. I think this might have. I actually know it was just released recently. So these are the weekly candles. It could not have been that one. Um, but yeah, I guess we're still looking for that breakout on this.

Uh, trading pay right here. There's gonna be a lot of stuff. That's going to integrate chain link into their technology and a lot of stuff that isn't even blockchain related to do. So, I mean, the weather service, the company that backed us, the weather channel weather, you know, they've integrated. So, I mean, there's a man there's only good news for a lot of these things to move in the future.

All right. What's up Jim Cruz. Uh, we got Coty here for you. Uh, this is a smart contract blockchain. I think it's an Ethereum competitor. Uh, and you can program smart contracts in any language, uh, on this chain. I think that's its selling feature. It's been a while since I really dove into this project, but we see it here in full on price discovery mode.

It has broken through, uh, that the. Actually, it looks like March was there all time high. Uh, and so we're going to look for this continued movement. I'm assuming, what do you guys think about this chart? I don't know much about it. Is it like a car TZ car Tessie, C R T S I, where you can write smart contracts in any language as well.

Maybe that's what I was thinking of. Yeah. Maybe I think Cody is a different project. Maybe we can pull it up on coin market cap really quickly just to do a quick fundamental on the platform. Yeah. I just brought it up. We should definitely go into it because I, yeah, you're thinking of car Tessy but this is a little bit different.

I personally. Yeah. Currency of the internet. That sounds right. Cody. I personally never buy into all time highs when I see this, which I mean, that's just my personal trading preference. I feel like there's a little bit too much risk to get in once we're breaking new, all time highs. But that being said, once you're in price, discovery, sentiment changes really fast and you could see huge gains still.

We saw that with Solano and we saw that with a lot of other cryptocurrencies, even just Bitcoin. You see that when we go up to new all-time high. You never see it just go up another 5% from the all time high that's when the mania starts and that's when you can really make big gains. But personally, I try to enter positions when there's fear in the market and not when there's FOMO, I find that works better and it's generally less than.

No, this is actually a pretty cool project. If you scroll down and see where they said, uh, what makes it unique is it allows you to, uh, create your own coins that are stable in price and take control of your finances and your data. And so you can pretty much turn this into really, however you would like it.

If you need a stable coin, if you want to make sure that you're creating something that gives you the best, you know, just control of everything that you do. That's pretty neat. I don't know what the new regulations for everything is going to happen with it or what, how that affected. But I haven't seen something like this.

Very cool. Uh, if you're just tuning in this is moon or bust your home for all things, all coins and defy right now, we're going over your token picks in the chat. So drop them down there. Uh, and well, your down there, make sure to drop us a like, if you are enjoying the content. Uh, okay. So next up we got chilled.

Uh, Jim Cruz again with another nice recommendation for us. So Chili's is like a sports, uh, integration network. So they have partnerships with a bunch of the huge soccer clubs over, across the pond. And now they are expanding into the U S they could see a boom in activity and price, and these, uh, you know, brand name recognition, uh, with all these U S partnerships.

This could be very bullish. Uh, zoom out a little bit. They are still a ways down from their all time high. Uh, so this might be a good one to get into. If you're not already, it looks like they had a little bit of a attempted breakout and shot back down on that China food. Uh, but do you guys know anything about this coin?

You want to add anything? I know it's a platform and teams can make their own fan tokens, which is an interesting concept. We don't really see it implemented in blockchain too much. I think chili is really has the market for this right now. And they have the biggest partnerships. So, I mean, in that sense with the fundamentals, I think it's a good investment.

I think the technicals look good too right now. Uh, it's down, I mean, 60% or so from all time highs. And if the market continues to go. Through quarter four, I could see chilies, uh, outperforming a lot of these larger market cap coins. No, they're also big with the, uh, soccer. Teams and fans. So it was more of an international thing than for us and a us thing, but it's pretty big in those areas.

So that's, that's a huge, um, influx of users that want, you know, those NFTs or have a token player. I mean, a players token or all that kind of stuff. So I think there's a lot of room to go with this one. we got crypto maniac in the chat, shout out, Matthew Stafford. He also wants to know about so far. Is this similar or no?

So, uh, no, so far as a centralized lending platform where you can give them your coins and other people will borrow them from sofa and you can earn some interest on them through, uh, their, uh, what's it called? Custody wallet, custody program, unless there's a sofa cryptocurrency that we're missing out on.

Oh boy. Is there, you never know, by the way, guys, if you're curious to learn more about sofa, uh, check out Benzinga is so Phi review that Ryan and I worked on, uh, you heard of rule number 35. No, I haven't. What's that? It's a, if it exists, there's a cryptocurrency of it.

That was a good one. Uh, there is social finance, but this is definitely not 6,000. Yeah. With the real. So Phi, so C, Z Quilla. I can't say some of these Soliqua maybe. Well, I'd had, I don't know. I was trying to guess. Yeah, this is a old school one, but not well, quote unquote old school, but it's, um, super decentralized, um, anonymous and a lot like a Murano mundane.

Minero Minero they're all over the place. Yo producer, go on. Can we get a super cut of that? Yeah. And then I say it wrong, then I get embarrassed. And then I just say it wrong again, and just, it's like a snowball effect. Good content right there. Uh, can you need to do some vocal compilation episode? Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

Tik TOK. Super cut of all the, the goofs. Uh, okay, so let's see. What is the use of this like Monero? You. Old coin. I mean, we can go into it. It's says a de-centralized blockchain by the token and they, they kind of a rebel in the anonymous transactions. I gotcha. Um, okay. It is three o'clock. Unfortunately guys, we are out of time.

Uh, but thank you guys all so much for tuning in today. If you're new to Benzinga or new to moon are bust, make sure you subscribe to the channel and drop a like on the video. So YouTube will show it to more people. We can grow our community. Also, if you're here for crypto, do not forget to subscribe to the Benzinga crypto separate YouTube channel.

It's the first link in the description below. We are going to move over to that channel and really push growth on that. Once we hit a thousand subs. Uh, so make sure you're early. If you want to be entered. That giveaway. Um, but yeah. Thank you guys all so much for tuning in. As I already said, I'm going to take this off.

Uh, and you guys have any closing thoughts for us, Ryan or Brian? Follow me on Twitter for mute and Monday. Yeah. I'm going to work on my vocal lesson. I don't know. I'm not a professional shout out to all the apes out there in the chat. It is up on Twitter, connect with us. We'd love to talk to you. Uh, but until then, uh, we will see you on Wednesday.

Right now. We have pre-market prep at the close coming up. Uh, so if you want that stunk alpha, make sure to stick around. All right. Peace guys.

Why the heck did we have 10 people watching when we started? Yeah, there was no redirect. Uh, it was a coal, you can blame. It's all equals fault.

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